The Republican war on Republicans

posted at 12:31 pm on January 13, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

The endless navel gazing following significant GOP losses in the last election is far from over, and not all of it is pointless. We have people talking about significant policy changes in the platform to make the Republican brand more salable in national races, as well as ideas geared toward expanding the tent and bringing in a more diverse voter base. But Scott Rasmussen has a new editorial out this week where he believes he’s identified another issue to be tackled. There are, as he states rather directly, a number of “establishment GOP” types in D.C. who seem to have determined that the big problem with the Republican Party is all of those Republican voters.

Politico explained that while Washington Democrats have always viewed GOP voters as a problem, Washington Republicans “in many a post-election soul-searching session” have come to agree. More precisely, the article said the party’s Election 2012 failures have “brought forth one principal conclusion from establishment Republicans: They have a primary problem.”

As seen from the halls of power, the problem is that Republican voters think it’s OK to replace incumbent senators and congressman who don’t represent the views of their constituents. In 2012, for example, Republican voters in Indiana dumped longtime Sen. Richard Lugar in a primary battle.

This infuriated establishment Republicans for two reasons. First, because they liked Lugar and the way he worked. Second, because the replacement candidate was flawed and allowed Democrats to win what should have been a safe Republican seat.

Scott goes on to say that observers are noticing a growing inclination in beltway GOP power centers to circle the wagons and make it harder for the unwashed masses to mount primary challenges to their media tested selections and proven winners. And I agree with his assessment that this is a fine strategy if your only concern is winning. But at what cost?

Before we get too carried away, let’s not throw the whole “winning” baby out with the bathwater here. If you don’t win, you don’t get to govern. But if your base feels that you’ve lost sight of your principles in the effort to win, they won’t turn out for you and the process becomes a self-defeating death spiral. By the same token, as difficult as it may be for some folks to accept, it is undeniable that the professional political class – or “the elite” as so many of you like to say – bring some important skills to the table.

Chief among these is the mountain of background research, tools, resources and experience required to conduct extensive vetting of new entrants to the political ring. While a rising red tide of grassroots enthusiasm for a new face is not only useful, but vital to a big win, the excitable hoi polloi are also frequently lacking in the ability to sort the wheat from the chaff. Critics like to point to some of the really high profile losers such as Christine O’Donnell whenever this discussion comes up, but it happens at lower levels all across the nation.

In a race which went virtually unreported, the newly redrawn NY-22 district saw a Tea Party challenge in the 2012 primary to a GOP incumbent who was viewed as being too far to the left. The challenger they selected was a local Tea Party leader who turned out to be an unemployed guy who had failed to even be elected mayor in his home village and had supposedly lost an earlier business he started for not paying his taxes. In this case it turned out that the incumbent went on to win the primary in a landslide and then beat the Democrat by a similar margin. But what if he hadn’t? A seat in a reliably Republican leaning district could have once again been lost and gone to a flunky of the previous Democratic incumbent once all the news came fully to light during the general election race.

That’s just one cautionary tale among many. So how does this relate to the point that Rasmussen is making? He offers hints of a solution which should be worth a look.

Mature party leaders would spend a lot more time listening to Republican voters rather than further insulating themselves from those voters. They would try to understand why just 37 percent of Republicans nationwide believe the economy is fair. They would give serious thought to why just half of GOP voters have a favorable opinion of House Speaker John Boehner, the highest-ranking elected Republican in the nation. They would acknowledge that government spending in America has gone up in every year since 1954 regardless of whether Republicans or Democrats are in charge.

Then mature party leaders would chart a realistic course to address these concerns and share those plans with the voters. To succeed, this course would have to include some painful medicine for the establishment, such as giving up corporate welfare programs that benefit their friends and allies. It also would require helping Republican voters identify primary candidates who challenge the establishment but could be effective on the campaign trail.

Tying these points together, D.C. Republican leaders can still hold on to their power and influence if they listen to those they are ostensibly leading and then use the tools at their disposal to work with grass roots activists rather than against them. If the voters are unhappy with an incumbent, fine. Don’t just fight them by backing the incumbent with unlimited money and then act sullen toward the challenger if they win. The better course is to get to work vetting the potential choices being put forth by the grass roots, pointing out lethal flaws if they exist and helping them identify challengers who are both ideologically palatable to the base and electable in the general race. It means not simply tamping down the impulse to keep fighting to the death for the status quo, but also demonstrating the strength to stand up to activists who are making untenable choices and saying, “Look, we hear you. But that’s not going to work. Let’s find someone who will.”

Or is that just crazy talk?


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Says the man who voted for the pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro-cap & trade, pro-gun control, pro-universal healthcare Romney.

But at least Romney dressed conservatively. Well, except for at home. Rumor has it he prances about in a g-string and pasties, something he learned in France when lots of other men of his generation were fighting and dying in Vietnam.

casuist on January 13, 2013 at 4:36 PM

You have sided with evil.

Stoic Patriot on January 13, 2013 at 4:30 PM

It’s really time to drop the histronics.

You’re starting to sound like a whacko.

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 4:36 PM

You decided that Obama was the better choice, end of story. Don’t give me that protest vote crap, because that is exactly what it is. You chose Obama. Live with it. You go right ahead and pretend that your hands are clean because you voted for someone YOU KNEW could not possible even come close to winning.

YOU made the assertion that Romney was even more evil that Obama and then you acted on that choice by doing something that helped Obama win reelection. No matter how you parse it, try to deflect it or cover it up, you chose evil.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:23 PM
………………………………………….
Excellent post had to be repeated.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 4:37 PM

What it is is that they have been brainwashed, indoctrinated to believe that it has to be their way or no way.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

As opposed to, say, your side? That’s what the left-wing of the party has been doing for the last 25 years and you know it.

Project much?

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 4:38 PM


I’m an independent who believed that a moderate like Romney was the lessor of two evils, the greater evil being Chairman Obama.

Evil being? So, by “independent,” do you mean bipolar, or borderline personality disorder? Your politics doesn’t have to reflect your diagnosis, you know.

casuist on January 13, 2013 at 4:39 PM

It’s Romney’s fault Romney lost. It was Romney’s task to connect with the voters, not the other way around. He failed. He failed with his own damned base. Oh, and apparently the super-genius numbers guy couldn’t read a damned poll or a run a damned campaign.

casuist on January 13, 2013 at 4:23 PM

Yes it was. He did not run the campaign that he needed to to win. The fault lies with his political skills, however, not his message. He was right on target in terms of the solutions that this nation needs. He did a terrible job of explaining it and why the alternative, however comforting, was false hope and simply exchanging modest relief from for our current problems for much larger insoluble problems just a short way down the road.

The way to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past is by learning the correct lessons from it, not by drawing false conclusions that fit one’s world view.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 4:40 PM

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

As opposed to, say, your side? That’s what the left-wing of the party has been doing for the last 25 years and you know it.

Project much?

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 4:38 PM

And the stupid train just keeps chugging along.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:40 PM

So I guess you are happy with wind mills instead of oil wells, the destruction of the coal industry, the EPA up everyone’s ass all the time,

Romney supported ethanol subsidies, shut down coal plants, backed the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative and the global warming crap.

Yeah I guess we would have got all that from Mitt Romney.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 4:34 PM

Romneycare. Free cars for welfare recipients. etc.

I guess we should have voted for the guy who banned guns to prevent the guy who might ban guns from winning?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:41 PM

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:36 PM

Come on now. It is well known Kerry lost because of his flip flopping that is not debatable. Well Mitt was worst than Kerry at flipflopping.

He provided a huge list of how Romney suported every single cause of the DNC. You claim he provided no proof how much proof do you need? Just admit it he proved you wrong.

By the way I have been waiting for a year for anyone to tell me even one Conservative thing Mitt ever got into law. Even one. No one has ever provided any example.

Mitt Romney is 0% for anything I am for. 0%.

The real Mitt the one that was Governor. Not the lying flip flopping Mitt that would say anything what so ever to come in a close second to Odumbo.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

It’s really time to drop the histronics.

You’re starting to sound like a whacko.

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 4:36 PM

Nothing dramatized about it. Look at Romney’s record. He was a pro-abortion governor. He was the first governor to ever implement gay marriage. He did support cap & trade. He did support gun control. And yes, he was the author of Romneycare, which paved the way for Obamacare. He was notorious for saying whatever he had to say to whatever audience he was addressing at the time.

Sorry if you can’t handle the truth.

Stoic Patriot on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

YOU made the assertion that Romney was even more evil that Obama and then you acted on that choice by doing something that helped Obama win reelection.

Yeah. So? Simple evils can yield complex goods according to theologians like Romney. Wasn’t he a bishop or something? So when are you going to stop crying about how a lot of Republican voters refused to vote for Romney and figure out how to carry on?

casuist on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

Romneys biggest mistake. Letting up in that third debate. He agreed with 0 on damn near everything. People saw that.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

And the stupid train just keeps chugging along.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:40 PM

Once again self projecting.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:43 PM

On Tuesday, Tea Party-backed candidates lost to Democrats in Indiana, Missouri, and Wisconsin, among other states.

In Florida, Republican Representative Allen West, a Tea Party hero who made waves for calling Democratic House colleagues closeted Communists, lost to Patrick Murphy, a 29-year-old political newcomer. (West has not conceded the race and is seeking a recount.) In Minnesota, former presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann barely retained her House seat. In Illinois, Democrat Tammy Duckworth, a decorated Iraq War veteran who headed President Barack Obama’s U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs, beat Republican incumbent Joe Walsh for a House seat. In a closely-watched U.S. Senate race in Indiana, Democratic Representative Joe Donnelly defeated State Treasurer Richard Mourdock; the Republican had publicly scoffed at the idea of compromise in Washington and his campaign stumbled when he said that conception from rape is “something that God intended.” Missouri Republican Todd Akin also lost a Senate bid over his controversial remarks on “legitimate rape.”

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Okay, good. I didn’t miss anything. West was beaten by the GOP. Walsh was a long shot due to redistricting in Barry’s home state. Tea party voices wanted Akin to drop out just as much as the establishment.

That leaves Mourdock, which I agree was a jaw dropping unforced error.

Now, if we were to assess Romney using the same yard stick….

ElectricPhase on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

Well, one thing is for sure. You got 0. Hide your guns and your money. Burn it down b i t c h e s.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

The way to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past is by learning the correct lessons from it, not by drawing false conclusions that fit one’s world view.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 4:40 PM

But drawing false conclusions that reinforces ones worldview is comfortable and gives you a weapon (albeit an imaginary one) to club your opposition with. You don’t really expect people not to do that, do you?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

I’m in California.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:30 PM

I’m an independent

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:34 PM

The Republicans out there just too radical and right-wing for ya?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM


The fault lies with his political skills, however, not his message.

Rilly? What was his message, by the way? All I remember is a muddle, e.g. Hey, I’ll repeal ObamaCare, but I’ll keep the good parts.

casuist on January 13, 2013 at 4:45 PM

Okay, good. I didn’t miss anything. West was beaten by the GOP. Walsh was a long shot due to redistricting in Barry’s home state. Tea party voices wanted Akin to drop out just as much as the establishment.

That leaves Mourdock, which I agree was a jaw dropping unforced error.

Now, if we were to assess Romney using the same yard stick….

ElectricPhase on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

How was West beaten by the GOP?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:45 PM

Romneys biggest mistake. Letting up in that third debate. He agreed with 0 on damn near everything. People saw that.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

How was that a mistake?

His objective was to closely lose to Odumbo and he succeeded in that.

His spokesman told us Obama is Great at the Hawaii Primary. His son told us Mitt never wanted to be President after he purposefully lost.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:34 PM

The Republicans out there just too radical and right-wing for ya?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

You used to love to play with a plastic bag over your head as a child didn’t you.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM

I’m happy you have 0. Make no mistake. I wish pain. Pass the salt.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:47 PM

Romneys biggest mistake. Letting up in that third debate. He agreed with 0 on damn near everything. People saw that.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

Do you think he didn’t agree with Obama on near everything, or that he wouldn’t come out and say what his disagreements with Obama were? If he did agree with Obama then it’s understandable why people wouldn’t even bother to go to the polls.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:47 PM

His objective was to closely lose to Odumbo and he succeeded in that.

It wasn’t even close.

casuist on January 13, 2013 at 4:47 PM

Sorry if you can’t handle the truth.

Stoic Patriot on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

not the point at all…in fact, you just made a coherent well written argument…and you never called me “evil” once in making it.

Much less whacko sounding.

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 4:48 PM

How was West beaten by the GOP?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:45 PM

Usually when redistricting the GOP or DNC whoever is in charge makes sure incumbents have at least as good a district as before. Instead they destricted Allen West into a very Democratic leading district. Vastly changing his district. He only kept something like 20% of his old district.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM

not the point at all…in fact, you just made a coherent well written argument…and you never called me “evil” once in making it.

Much less whacko sounding.

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 4:48 PM

My prior responses were to SWalker. I’m willing to trade barb-for-barb, and if prompted, give the underlying rationale for my positions.

Stoic Patriot on January 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:45 PM

The bedtime story being put forward is that West lost because his district got shifted 4% bluer than when he got elected. It seems that the bestest TP’er to ever stride the halls of Congress just couldn’t overcome that shift and it’s all the fault of the evil establishment, or something.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Usually when redistricting the GOP or DNC whoever is in charge makes sure incumbents have at least as good a district as before. Instead they destricted Allen West into a very Democratic leading district. Vastly changing his district. He only kept something like 20% of his old district.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM

But that’s not what happened this time on account of Florida’s voter-approved redistricting laws that forbid drawing districts to favor incumbents. West was done in by the voters (twice), not by the GOP.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:52 PM

Today’s Establishment GOP is just like a the old Progressive Conservatives in Canada.

Totally out of touch with both the general electorate and their own base.

Romney was a disaster. Boehner IS a disaster. There is no hope at this point but to let this party die a painful, slow death.

Norwegian on January 13, 2013 at 4:52 PM

And the stupid train just keeps chugging along.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:40 PM

And you’re the bloody engineer.

All aboard!

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 4:53 PM

The bedtime story being put forward is that West lost because his district got shifted 4% bluer than when he got elected.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM

That would be why then wouldn’t it?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/12/florida-declares-west-has-lost-reelection-bid-despite-early-voting/

Officials said Saturday that West lost by 2,442 votes.

Officials have “already stated they had a 141 percent voter turnout, which I think should cause everyone alarm,” West told Fox.

He also said Murphy officials were allowed to observe the Sunday recount, but West’s were not.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:55 PM

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:47 PM

sharrukin, I live in the present. I am spending an awful lot of energy fending off the gun grabbers right now. No doubt it was an election of the lesser of two evils. We chose. It is as it is. What should or shouldn’t have been is largely a moot point. 0 will be sworn in soon. We are in deep s h i t.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:55 PM

The bedtime story being put forward is that West lost because his district got shifted 4% bluer than when he got elected. It seems that the bestest TP’er to ever stride the halls of Congress just couldn’t overcome that shift and it’s all the fault of the evil establishment, or something.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM

I’m well aware of the myth of the Romney hack in the Florida GOP who hated West for some reason so he made it his personal mission to sink him. I think the truecons secretly love it because it lets them feel persecuted by the establishment boogiemen they’ve created, thus feeding their anger and making them more righteous.

Whenever I hear someone start to go there I take the opportunity to correct it, as well as say a small prayer for myself because I’m reminded we have a lot of uninformed idiots on our side, and that I still have a lot of work to do. :-)

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:56 PM

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 4:37 PM

You are familiar with the quote function, are you not?

Oh wait, you’re SWalker’s sockpuppet/special “friend”; you couldn’t type your way out a wet paper bag.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM

We are in deep s h i t.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:55 PM

No argument, but that was true regardless of who won, Romney or Obama. Would Romney have stood firm after Sandy Hook? Would Romney have stood firm against the current amnesty push?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:40 PM

So is the California GOP too radical for you?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM

Would Romney have stood firm after Sandy Hook? Would Romney have stood firm against the current amnesty push?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM

We will never know. Though there certainly are known things about 0.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 4:48 PM

My prior responses were to SWalker. I’m willing to trade barb-for-barb, and if prompted, give the underlying rationale for my positions.

Stoic Patriot on January 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM

At the end of the day, you decided that Romney was a bigger threat to America than Obama. Period, end of story.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

We will never know. Though there certainly are known things about 0.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM

I suspect the guy who passed a state Assault Weapons Ban and supported the federal AWB wouldn’t resist what is currently going on, but who knows.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

So is the California GOP too radical for you?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM

At this point I wouldn’t be too surprised if the North Korean or Cuban GOPs would be too radical for StatistWalker.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM

So is the California GOP too radical for you?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM

There’s a California GOP….lol….who knew?

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM

You used to love to play with a plastic bag over your head as a child didn’t you.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM

Boy now I know why you are such a hypocrite. Who made you do that?

Understand people when SWalker accuses you of something he is just telling us once again what he is.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Boy now I know why you are such a hypocrite. Who made you do that?

Understand people when SWalker accuses you of something he is just telling us once again what he is.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM


Projection.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:03 PM

At this point I wouldn’t be too surprised if the North Korean or Cuban GOPs would be too radical for StatistWalker.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM

That’s what I am thinking. The only question remaining is why he isn’t a Democrat.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:03 PM

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 4:37 PM

You are familiar with the quote function, are you not?

Oh wait, you’re SWalker’s sockpuppet/special “friend”; you couldn’t type your way out a wet paper bag.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM

Wow, you wear the stupid well…

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:03 PM

So is the California GOP too radical for you?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM

There’s a California GOP….lol….who knew?

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM

ROTFLMAO……… Yet… Not one of them will understand…

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:05 PM

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:05 PM

You were a Democrat and then went independent?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Look in any psychology textbook; in the index under Projection you’ll find, “Psychological bias suffered by SWalker.”

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:07 PM

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:05 PM

You were a Democrat and then went independent?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Keep trying… It just might come to you one of these days.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:07 PM

The bedtime story being put forward is that West lost because his district got shifted 4% bluer than when he got elected.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Do you think before you post?

West got screwed by the GOPe into a 4% bluer district and lost by 2%.

Yet you seem to be arguing that that was not the problem. Your facts support the opposite. Wake up.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM

Keep trying… It just might come to you one of these days.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:07 PM

I think it came to all of us about…five minutes ago, actually.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM

Do you think before you post?

West got screwed by the GOPe into a 4% bluer district and lost by 2%.

Yet you seem to be arguing that that was not the problem. Your facts support the opposite. Wake up.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM

He reads just fine. You’re ignorant and uninformed.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Keep trying… It just might come to you one of these days.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:07 PM

I get that you are a liberal I just wonder what sort. The refugee Democrat, or the Rockefeller Republican type.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:10 PM

At the end of the day, you decided that Romney was a bigger threat to America than Obama. Period, end of story.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

Actually, I determined there was no meaningful difference. Hence, I did not provide my support to either candidate.

Stoic Patriot on January 13, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Literally every poll between 2007 and 2012 told the Republican party that Mitt Romney was not wanted by the Republican voters. Yet in spite of this, the Republican party set up a process that made it almost impossible for anybody to win other then Romney. And made it incredibly difficult and potentially threatening to even run. So other then one single credible candidate[Perry], no other credible candidates ran.

We told the establishment we didn’t want Romney. They said they didn’t care. And we lose by 3% and really more like 5% based on the electoral college.

Maybe this time they listen when we say we don’t want Bush or Christie and they allow a fair primary process. One that isn’t set up to make conservatives look bad with a bunch of establishment conservative clowns running to split the conservative vote. One where the moderators of the debates are not ALL liberal media pundits. One where Fox News isn’t doing the establishments dirty work. One where the states are not front loaded to advantage their guy. Etc.

Maybe then Jindal, Demint, Palin, Cruz, and Rand Paul run. And then, maybe then, if a Bush, Rubio, Christie, or Daniels won, we would believe it was fair and square and would happily support them.

So far, we are off to a bad start in that process and I am already getting a relux response to Christie, Bush and Rubio.

Does anybody know the heimlich?

KMav on January 13, 2013 at 5:11 PM

At the end of the day, you decided that Romney was a bigger threat to America than Obama. Period, end of story.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

I voted for Obam because he was the bigger threat to America. American’s have become sissys and they need to feel the yoke again – maybe then they’ll have a desire to FIGHT for freedom and keep it.

Romney would never have done anything but status quo. At the end of his “reign” the federal government would have been bigger and the debt larger. This is the lesson of 50 years of GOP Presidents, who like Dims, have done nothing but expand government.

HondaV65 on January 13, 2013 at 5:16 PM

Literally every poll between 2007 and 2012 told the Republican party that Mitt Romney was not wanted by the Republican voters. Yet in spite of this, the Republican party set up a process that made it almost impossible for anybody to win other then Romney. And made it incredibly difficult and potentially threatening to even run. So other then one single credible candidate[Perry], no other credible candidates ran.

KMav on January 13, 2013 at 5:11 PM

What process did they set up? We had the same series of primary elections we’ve had for decades. Heck, if anything they made it harder for Romney by not frontloading things with a bunch of larger winner-take-all states with expensive media markets where smaller, less well-funded campaigns can’t compete. Just because the guy you wanted lost doesn’t mean the game was rigged or somehow unfair.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:17 PM

Romneys biggest mistake. Letting up in that third debate. He agreed with 0 on damn near everything. People saw that.

Bmore on January 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

A Bigger mistake was thier utilization of Christie to try and generate base excitement. Boy, did that strategy blow up in Mitt’s face.

The biggest mistake – Team Mitt not running away from RomneyCare. ObamaCare was THE clear winner for the Rs. It was almost never touched during Romney’s campaign. OYYY! That was frustrating, especially, just a few years after Obamacare cost the dems the house.

The left and right here both have a point. Mitt was a good stump politician. As good as Mcain, better then Dole, but he was clearly not top shelf. A guy like Mitt, whether he is a fake conservative or born again severe, is not going to ever win a national election against a Clintoln or GWB at their peak. But this was Obama with the cr*&*y Obama economy, and even some of the ABRs posting right now thought Romney would win. But, yes, conservative ideas got the short end in 2012. And it turns out , in hindsight, it was also bad strategy to go Romney.

BUT!!!!!!!! Romney won the primary and as far as I can tell , no one else was trying. Perry had that big stomping start with nothing to back it up. The rest of them were padding a resume. Mitt is disparaged for running for president for 8 years but WTH are the conservatives doing! Maybe if some conservative wanted to win they would run for 4,8,12 years(if that’s what it takes). Instead they all wait to test if the waters are warm. Mitt didn’t wait and that’s a presidential attitude (of course he also needed a consistent ideology and better communication skills but…).

BoxHead1 on January 13, 2013 at 5:19 PM

I’m in California.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:30 PM

I’m an independent

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:34 PM

The Republicans out there just too radical and right-wing for ya?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

Well, as we say out here in Kalifornia: “California – where even the Republicans are Democrats.”

tballard on January 13, 2013 at 5:20 PM

I’m really getting sick of hearing about Christine O’Donnell. Was I the only guy paying attention during that election? The press and the Democrats entertainment machine went after O’Donnell like nothing I’ve ever seen. A comment made on a comedy show became fodder for everyone and the campaign never got down to issues. The “establishment” avoided supporting her and she never got enough funding to run a good campaign, and all because she beat the “establishment” candidate.

Now, let’s talk about Connie Mack IV in Florida. He was the establishment candidate in a race that was winnable, against Bill Nelson. George Lemieux, the guy that Crist appointed to take the remainder of the Martinez term, would have been aperfect candidate, but he couldn’t get the funding.

THe Tea Party gave the Republicans an overwhelming victory, in 2010, and they squandered that opportunity every chance they got. That was the establishment in action, fighting the tea party every chance they got and allowing the Democrats to not pass a budget. I’m not willing, as a voter, to get all excited about the establishment in Washington D.C. and would heartily support a 3rd Party if they don’t get their act together. If the House signs on to another C.R. without the Senate passing a budget, I would love to see the tea party group form a 3rd party. They might not win at first, and we’d have to put up with obnoxious Democrats for a while, but it would be much better than what we have now.

bflat879 on January 13, 2013 at 5:22 PM

HondaV65 on January 13, 2013 at 5:16 PM

lol….here we go!

(I’m gonna go get some chips)

Tim_CA on January 13, 2013 at 5:23 PM

WTH are the conservatives doing!

BoxHead1 on January 13, 2013 at 5:19 PM

They are leaving the Republican party.

Many, perhaps most, don’t believe the GOP wants conservatives around. The primaries are open to Democrats, they are lined up so the more liberal states go first, and the rules are altered when required by the party.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:24 PM

Whenever I hear someone start to go there I take the opportunity to correct it, as well as say a small prayer for myself because I’m reminded we have a lot of uninformed idiots on our side, and that I still have a lot of work to do. :-)

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 4:56 PM

What would we ever do without you?

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM

My point was that if he and his brand of conservatism were fractionally as appealing as you seem to think, he would have had no problem overcoming that 4% shift. Especially given his status as incumbent. He fell short by 2% even after having established his incumbency.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 5:25 PM

If strategy must divorce principle to win, them we’ve already lost the war.

We ran this last failed election dissing the awakened citizen tea party, Sarah Palin was stabbed in the back along with those supporters who never got a chance to vote for her or not, because of the elite betrayal, and dare the social cons and the God who helped build America Who alone gives us our rights be included in our message (particularly in the black and Hispanic communities.) we might have common ground, though so many fiscal cons and libertarians so loath God, one has to wonder what it is about the paper constitution that protects us without any rights.

But, GOP go ahead, find another rich, smooth talking image to lecture the sex crazed and free-lunch masses about economics, instead of stopping our cultural destruction so perfectly perverted for power by the left.

Don L on January 13, 2013 at 5:29 PM

What would we ever do without you?

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Mainly repeat history and allow myth to be treated as fact.

It’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it!

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:29 PM

I voted for Obam because he was the bigger threat to America. American’s have become sissys and they need to feel the yoke again – maybe then they’ll have a desire to FIGHT for freedom and keep it.

Romney would never have done anything but status quo. At the end of his “reign” the federal government would have been bigger and the debt larger. This is the lesson of 50 years of GOP Presidents, who like Dims, have done nothing but expand government.

HondaV65 on January 13, 2013 at 5:16 PM

The truly sad thing is that you think that this is less fixable than the foothold socialism is going to get.

Good luck on ever getting rid of Obamacare. It will NEVER go away. The US is eventually going to be like Canada and the UK.

That`s just one example.

But nooooooooooo. You knew better!

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 5:30 PM

Mainly repeat history and allow myth to be treated as fact.

It’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it!

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:29 PM

The unwashed masses thank you. Glad you are around to help us think and show us the One True Way.

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 5:31 PM

A more appropriate picture for the article…

Here

voiceofreason on January 13, 2013 at 5:32 PM

I’m in California.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:30 PM

I’m an independent

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 4:34 PM

The Republicans out there just too radical and right-wing for ya?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM

Well, as we say out here in Kalifornia: “California – where even the Republicans are Democrats.”

tballard on January 13, 2013 at 5:20 PM

ROTFLMAO…Even with a hint like that they still won’t get it.

SWalker on January 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM

WTH are the conservatives doing!
BoxHead1 on January 13, 2013 at 5:19 PM

They are leaving the Republican party.

Many, perhaps most, don’t believe the GOP wants conservatives around.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:24 PM

This

Wino on January 13, 2013 at 5:36 PM

Good luck on ever getting rid of Obamacare. It will NEVER go away.

But nooooooooooo. You knew better!

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 5:30 PM

And you think Romney was going to get rid of Obamacare?

He said he was going to keep it, as did his advisors.

Romney: ‘I’m Not Getting Rid of All of Health Care Reform’

Romney on Obamacare: “Repeal the Bad and Keep the Good”

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:36 PM

We ran this last failed election dissing the awakened citizen tea party, Sarah Palin was stabbed in the back

No she wasn’t. She could have run if she wanted to but she apparently thought there were more important things to do than save America.

along with those supporters who never got a chance to vote for her or not,

I would buy Sarah Palin supporters were stabbed in the back by Sarah Palin after she teased for months and then decided she couldn’t be bothered to run, but there’s no one Palin supporters have a gripe with apart from Palin herself.

because of the elite betrayal,

What are you talked about? Be specific.

and dare the social cons and the God who helped build America Who alone gives us our rights be included in our message (particularly in the black and Hispanic communities.) we might have common ground, though so many fiscal cons and libertarians so loath God, one has to wonder what it is about the paper constitution that protects us without any rights.

Don L on January 13, 2013 at 5:29 PM

God can’t be included in our message? Huh? A couple social conservatives said some very stupid things that cost us a couple wins and they were criticized for that but that’s a far cry from saying people loath God.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:37 PM

My point was that if he and his brand of conservatism were fractionally as appealing as you seem to think, he would have had no problem overcoming that 4% shift. Especially given his status as incumbent. He fell short by 2% even after having established his incumbency.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Hello. The GOP lost across the Nation. This was a very bad year for the GOP because the message was muddled and inconsistent. I dare you to even come up with what the 2012 message was.

You say he had established himself. Right in two years in a brand new district that was mostly new to him. How exactly.

You then go on and say even though the GOPe screwed him with a 4% more DNC district he should have been able to overcome that. What sheer arrogance.

You original post proved why he lost. A 4% bluer district.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:37 PM

The unwashed masses thank you. Glad you are around to help us think and show us the One True Way.

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 5:31 PM

People should think for themselves, I just point out that supposition (even oft-repeated group supposition) is not fact and I dust off my history books any time people seem to be ignoring things that are in it.

And by all means if you’ve got a cherished lie that you like to cling to (something like Allen West being redistricted out of Congress by the GOP Establishment) then you’re welcome to cover your eyes.

When I see lies, misstatements and falsehoods posted by people hear should I let it go by uncorrected?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:42 PM

WTH are the conservatives doing!
BoxHead1 on January 13, 2013 at 5:19 PM

They are leaving the Republican party.

Many, perhaps most, don’t believe the GOP wants conservatives around.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:24 PM

This

Wino on January 13, 2013 at 5:36 PM

Yes we are ready to bail.

The GOP is the 21st century Whig Party.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:42 PM

When I see lies, misstatements and falsehoods posted by people hear should I let it go by uncorrected?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:42 PM

It would help if your own post hadn’t in fact proved exactly what people have been saying. The redistricting is why he lost.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:43 PM

Hello. The GOP lost across the Nation. This was a very bad year for the GOP because the message was muddled and inconsistent. I dare you to even come up with what the 2012 message was.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:37 PM

Hell, I’ll do it for him.

“Vote for our liberal because our liberal is a micron less liberal than the Democrats’ liberal!”

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:45 PM

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 4:43 PM…………..
I can’t believe you clowns can make a moral equivalency between Mitt and zero. You just have to be as brainwashed as the islamists are,sad to see.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 5:48 PM

We ran this last failed election dissing the awakened citizen tea party, Sarah Palin was stabbed in the back

No she wasn’t. She could have run if she wanted to but she apparently thought there were more important things to do than save America.
alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:37 PM

So you think that because you allow someone to join a rigged game but stab them in the back before that. The stabbing in the back does not count.

OK got that.

GOPe plays by Arrogant Condescending and unfair rules.

Sarah was smart to NOT run. This was rigged from the begging against any conservative that dare run. Rigged by a dying party that is well past the time of redemption.

So long GOP you deserve to remain as much as the Whig Party did.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:48 PM

What process did they set up? We had the same series of primary elections we’ve had for decades. Heck, if anything they made it harder for Romney by not frontloading things with a bunch of larger winner-take-all states with expensive media markets where smaller, less well-funded campaigns can’t compete. Just because the guy you wanted lost doesn’t mean the game was rigged or somehow unfair.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:17 PM

One of the many things they did was move three solid and large Mormon states before Super Tuesday[Arizona-Colorado-Washington] with Washington and Colorado being kind of liberal and all costing solid money to compete in, while also pushing Florida to number 4 out of the gate. Florida was the one southern State Romney did well in for 2008 and its the one state that takes tons of money which Romney had a huge advantage in. Florida largely won the race for Romney. They also dropped Louisiana[a horrible state for Romney] from before Super Tuesday to after. So you are just wrong about your views on this topic.

They then played games in Iowa and lied about who had won. When South Carolina conservatives cheered too much for Newt Gingrich, they stopped allowing cheering in the debates and started pumping Romney voters into the debate halls. Bachmann never going after Romney and kissing him on the debate floor.

These are just SOME of the things I know about or can remember off hand. I can’t imagine the pressure the establishment put on politicians and money bags not to support anybody else. Its hard to prove stuff behind the scenes.

Finally my guy didn’t run because the process was so rigged.

KMav on January 13, 2013 at 5:49 PM

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:37 PM
Hell, I’ll do it for him.

“Vote for our liberal because our liberal is a micron less liberal than the Democrats’ liberal!”

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:45 PM

You got that right.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:49 PM

It would help if your own post hadn’t in fact proved exactly what people have been saying. The redistricting is why he lost.

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:43 PM

He lost because of redistricting but it wasn’t a nefarious plot on the part of the GOP that did him in. The district that elected him was one of the most gerrymandered in the nation, Florida passed an anti-gerrymandering voter initiative at the same time West was elected and it became impossible to draw him a favorable district that was compliant with both this new voter-approved initiative and the Voting Rights Act. When people were first complaining about this last year there were posters here offering $1,000 to anyone who could draw such a district for West to run in. No one could do it.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:50 PM

I can’t believe you clowns can make a moral equivalency between Mitt and zero.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 5:48 PM

Weren’t you going to tell us what conservative things Romney has done?

sharrukin on January 13, 2013 at 5:50 PM

I can’t believe you clowns can make a moral equivalency between Mitt and zero. You just have to be as brainwashed as the islamists are,sad to see.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 5:48 PM

“Why, I do declare! I can’t believe you can make an equivalency between our liberal (who’s a whole micron less liberal than their liberal, dontcha know) and their liberal! You’d have to have something we don’t…like principles, maybe, to do that!”

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:50 PM

Basic problem – the political class thinks we’re too ill-informed and ignorant to “understand” the “situation” … and “therefore” we “should” allow our “betters” to “lead.”

Meanwhile, out here in the world that doesn’t run on federal money, we see our country going to hell in a handbasket. We’re sounding the alarm – “Guys, we can’t keep running up these deficits year after year and expect everything will turn out wonderful”; “Guys, Social Security & Medicare are out of control – they’re going to bankrupt our nation right around the time our children & grandchildren take over …. how can we do that to them?”; “Guys, open borders doesn’t work – California is a basket case (and we’re going to be asked to pick up the bill) & Arizona is being overrun … we cannot afford this policy.”; “Guys, we’re not in trouble with Hispanics because we want border control – - – we’re in trouble with Hispanics because they support Democrat policy on social welfare spending. Caving on illegal immigration isn’t going to change that – it’s just going to increase the number of Hispanics voting for Democrats.”

As things presently stand, the national Republican party is not dedicated to solving the nation’s problems. We’re not serious about the national debt, we’re not serious about deficits, we’re not serious about entitlement reform. By refusing to speak the truth about these things DIRECTLY, without mincing words, we are accessories to the Democrat policies which have us on the path to a national train wreck.

We’re past the point where a tweak here and a bit of shaving there can right the ship. We may be past the point where anything can be done to avoid the train wreck. I hope not – but if we are, I’d at least like our party to be a voice in the wilderness warning the people of the coming calamity … because, if history is our guide, the party (and politician) willing to speak those hard truths tend to be the ones turned to when the calamity strikes.

BD57 on January 13, 2013 at 5:51 PM

My point was that if he and his brand of conservatism were fractionally as appealing as you seem to think, he would have had no problem overcoming that 4% shift. Especially given his status as incumbent. He fell short by 2% even after having established his incumbency.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2013 at 5:25 PM

wow Math is hard for you. GOP establishment made district 4% more blue. West lost by 2%.

4%-2%= 2% without the GOP establishment in FL making a 4% move West would have won.

I love how the moderates just make crap up. Irregardless of the facts staring them in the face.

unseen on January 13, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Have not seen Hawkdriver around for a while. He linked his moniker to the Conservative Party USA. Good website, and a organization that is looking better every day- perhaps the place for Tea Party types.

Of course, caveat emptor.

M240H on January 13, 2013 at 5:52 PM

A more appropriate picture for the article…

Here

voiceofreason on January 13, 2013 at 5:32 PM

Or perhaps…

This

ElectricPhase on January 13, 2013 at 5:52 PM

So you think that because you allow someone to join a rigged game but stab them in the back before that. The stabbing in the back does not count.

OK got that.

GOPe plays by Arrogant Condescending and unfair rules.

Sarah was smart to NOT run. This was rigged from the begging against any conservative that dare run. Rigged by a dying party that is well past the time of redemption.

So long GOP you deserve to remain as much as the Whig Party did.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:48 PM

You realize the voters do the voting, right? If she had come out with a strong, well-articulated conservative message would the base not have rallied to her? The base did that for Rand Paul, Joe Miller, Richard Mourdock and Christine O’Donnell. Why wouldn’t they have swept Palin to victory in the same way?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM

At least I didn’t vote zero. You may as well have. Better go stand back in the corner now where you will be safe.And try and stay out of trouble.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 5:53 PM

What process did they set up? We had the same series of primary elections we’ve had for decades. Heck, if anything they made it harder for Romney by not frontloading things with a bunch of larger winner-take-all states with expensive media markets where smaller, less well-funded campaigns can’t compete. Just because the guy you wanted lost doesn’t mean the game was rigged or somehow unfair.

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:17 PM

Man your arrogant condensation never ends.

If we had had those winner take all in the front Romney would have been in a far worst position.

Guess you just think you can rewrite history to support your view if it does not in reality support it.

You state how it was rigged and thank you for that. The early winner take alls were eliminated because it was known Romney would lose most of the early elections.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:53 PM

At least I didn’t vote zero. You may as well have. Better go stand back in the corner now where you will be safe.And try and stay out of trouble.

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Ooh, haven’t heard that one before! I wonder where you got that one, O One Who Cannot Find the Quote Function.

Having voted for Romney, primary and general, you voted for Obama. Plain and simple. Because the difference between them was…drum roll please…Negligible! Less than negligible, in fact.

You voted for Obama, not us.

End.
Of.
Story.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 5:58 PM

You realize the voters do the voting, right? If she had come out with a strong, well-articulated conservative message would the base not have rallied to her? The base did that for Rand Paul, Joe Miller, Richard Mourdock and Christine O’Donnell. Why wouldn’t they have swept Palin to victory in the same way?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Because she would have lost for the same reason those you chose for your arrogant post lost. The GOPe would have been enemy number one.

The GOPe destroyed all you talk about. Interesting. I guess when tons of GOPe candidates lose you just forget they ever existed. I mean I guess in your warped mind we still control the House and Senate because GOPe candidates always win.

Must be nice in your alternate reality.

Come back to earth. The GOPe loses and loses and loses. That is the only game they know how to lose. The very few times the Conservative message has been allowed we have always won. Five Presidential wins since Nixon all with a Conservative message. Six Presidential losses all with a GOPe message. We won the House twice with a Conservative message then lost it with a GOPe message. We won the Senate with a Conservative message then lost it with a GOPe message.

You can NOT name a single election cycle the GOPe message won since Nixon. That worked out so well too didn’t it.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 6:00 PM

KMav on January 13, 2013 at 5:49 PM

The state parties decide when their primaries are, not the national party. And if there was really a conspiracy to get Mormon-heavy states to vote early then why in heaven’s name would they make Utah the very last state to vote? Florida had the same spot in 2012 it had in 2008 as well. Or is the pro-Romney conspiracy so clever that they planned this out over four years in advance?

Blame Bachmann for what Bachmann did. Unless the shadowy establishment thing had a gun at her back then she made that choice and it’s no one’s fault but hers.

So you’re left with cheering in the debates. From what I recall there was cheering despite the rules, and I can only speak for myself but who cheered for who how loud has zero influence on how I vote. Do you honestly believe that was the biggest factor that decided the primaries, more than Newt’s moon base?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 6:01 PM

West got screwed by the GOPe into a 4% bluer district and lost by 2%.

Yet you seem to be arguing that that was not the problem. Your facts support the opposite. Wake up.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM
……………………………………………
Sorry Dudley but Col.West lost due to voter fraud. Its fairly well known down here.But then you would have to look. A task too far I’m sure.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2959496/posts

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 6:01 PM

When I see lies, misstatements and falsehoods posted by people hear should I let it go by uncorrected?

alchemist19 on January 13, 2013 at 5:42 PM

Not at all. Just found your comments to be patronizing.

kim roy on January 13, 2013 at 6:02 PM

rodguy911 on January 13, 2013 at 6:01 PM

He would have beaten the margin of fraud had the GOPe not screwed him out of that 4%. Dolt.

Dunedainn on January 13, 2013 at 6:02 PM

Man your arrogant condensation never ends.

Steveangell on January 13, 2013 at 5:53 PM

I’m sorry but you’ve said that twice. What exactly does it mean?

Deanna on January 13, 2013 at 6:03 PM

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