Not all Russians wild about that adoption ban

posted at 2:01 pm on January 13, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Ever since Russia voted to ban the adoption of babies to parents in the United States, the entire subjected has become a foreign relations quagmire. Relations between our two nations have continued to sour, and this has become something of a political hot potato. But not everyone is backing up Vladimir Putin on this strange strategy. This week an unexpected number of his citizens took to the streets in a show of no confidence.

MOSCOW (AP) — Thousands marched through Moscow on Sunday to protest Russia’s new law banning Americans from adopting Russian children, a far bigger number than expected in a sign that outrage over the ban has breathed some life into the dispirited anti-Kremlin opposition movement.

Shouting “shame on the scum,” protesters carried posters of President Vladimir Putin and members of Russia’s parliament who overwhelmingly voted for the law last month. Up to 20,000 took part in the demonstration on a frigid, gray afternoon.

This may turn out to backfire on Putin entirely. There was already a groundswell of opposition to his seizing a third term in power, (which never really ended) but apparently the opposition was losing focus and weakening. This move may be the spark that gets some of them organized and back out in the streets on a regular basis. But there’s another aspect to the PR campaign against America going on in relation to this issue which I hadn’t been aware of.

Russia’s adoption ban was retaliation for a new U.S. law targeting Russians accused of human rights abuses. It also addresses long-brewing resentment in Russia over the 60,000 Russian children who have been adopted by Americans in the past two decades, 19 of whom have died.

Cases of Russian children dying or suffering abuse at the hands of their American adoptive parents have been widely publicized in Russia, and the law banning adoptions was called the Dima Yakovlev Bill after a toddler who died in 2008 when he was left in a car for hours in broiling heat.

On the surface those numbers really don’t sound all that shocking. 19 deaths in 20 years out of a pool of more than 60,000 is probably a better mortality rate than you’d find among Russian children in some parts of their country. But the fact that at least some of them came as a result of the incredible stupidity of incompetent parents certainly doesn’t help. And it probably won’t soothe anyone’s concerns to note that we have more than enough stupid parents who do equally reprehensible things involving their own American born children. But it’s not hard to see what a powerful tool such statistics, figures and stories could be in the court of Russian public opinion.

Either way, the entire thing is a mess. It’s difficult to see how any sort of social uprising is going to wind up toppling Putin from power, but he’s obviously got some public perception problems over there, even if a revolution isn’t in the offing.


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…Surprised?

KOOLAID2 on January 13, 2013 at 2:11 PM

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: underground railroad.

MelonCollie on January 13, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Shouting “shame on the scum,” protesters carried posters

…can they do that in front of our White House?

KOOLAID2 on January 13, 2013 at 2:13 PM

the 60,000 Russian children who have been adopted by Americans in the past two decades, 19 of whom have died.

While that’s obviously 19 too many, no doubt it would have been 190 if those 60,000 kids had all remained in the gulag known as Russia.

itsnotaboutme on January 13, 2013 at 2:15 PM

While that’s obviously 19 too many, no doubt it would have been 190 if those 60,000 kids had all remained in the gulag known as Russia.

itsnotaboutme on January 13, 2013 at 2:15 PM

19 out of 60k people dying in 20 years? You’ll lose that many if not more in car crashes. Big fat hairy nothingburger.

MelonCollie on January 13, 2013 at 2:18 PM

I am delighted by the ban. Until agencies become honest about disabilities, these adoptions to the desperate should be stopped. We should be the ones protesting the treatment of the disabled in Eastern Europe, NOT taking on the responsibility of their lifetime care.

clnurnberg on January 13, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Screw ‘em. We don’t need their brats.

john1schn on January 13, 2013 at 2:42 PM

This may turn out to backfire on Putin entirely.

Can’t he just throw them all in prison for a decade or so? /

scalleywag on January 13, 2013 at 2:45 PM

So Putin insists that all those Russian girls waiting to be adopted will have to wait until they’re old enough to become mail-order brides, eh?

JimLennon on January 13, 2013 at 2:54 PM

So what’s the problem ?
There are plenty of kids available in China, Kenya, Haiti, Somalia, Sudan, Bangladesh…. heck even in Saudi Arabia, who would hit the jackpot if they come to USA .
Why do these people want kids from Russia ?

burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Why do these people want kids from Russia ?

burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM

It’s the “in” thing to do, like when many Americans were adopting Vietnamese children decades ago.

Oh, and they’re adopting a lot from Ukraine, too.

Chic, very chic.

Dr. ZhivBlago on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Rounding up to 20 out of 60,000 is less than 0.004 percent, or one third of one hundredths of a percent. Sad, but perspective.

To those who wonder what the big deal is, yes, there are orphans all over the world, but very very few countries allow for foreign adoption, China is a rare case.

I am delighted by the ban. Until agencies become honest about disabilities, these adoptions to the desperate should be stopped. We should be the ones protesting the treatment of the disabled in Eastern Europe, NOT taking on the responsibility of their lifetime care.
clnurnberg on January 13, 2013 at 2:33 PM

You are sick. “We” are not taking care of anybody. The adoptive parents want to, no one, especially us conservatives, are asking for any of your help. For you to be glad that childless parents and orphans cannot be put together baffles me saying it lightly.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

I have to hand it to Piers – for a disgraced ‘journalist’ on a failing cable station he sure is getting a lot of attention.

CorporatePiggy on January 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Why do these people want kids from Russia ?
burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM
It’s the “in” thing to do, like when many Americans were adopting Vietnamese children decades ago.
Oh, and they’re adopting a lot from Ukraine, too.
Chic, very chic.
Dr. ZhivBlago on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

No, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. What a stupid thing to say. People who want designer babies use surrogates usually. This is more why people do it…

http://oureyesopened.org/2012/12/618.html

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Thank you for saying that. I am beginning to see the dark underbelly of some conservatives on here between this and some comments on Legal immigration in yesterdays’ thread.

can_con on January 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Screw ‘em. We don’t need their brats.
john1schn on January 13, 2013 at 2:42 PM

It seems the brats with real needs will be the ones getting screwed.

aryeung on January 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

A coworker and his wife lost their first born and only child to an incurable but medically treatable congenital heart defect when he was 10 years old [no compatible heart donor in time] so they decided to adopt and adopted two infant girls, sisters, from Russia. They were the daughters of a Russian couple who had their infants removed by the State for unknown reason(s) and were subsequently put up for adoption after the parents did absolutely nothing towards reunification. That’s all they were permitted to know about the kids other than their medical history which was ‘normal’. They had no special needs as infants.

They flew over to Russia three times over about 6 months and brought home the two girls on the 3rd trip. It cost them huge sums of money – but they were overjoyed with their babies. As the girls grew and matured they seemed to have a lot of promise. They were both quite lovely girls too. Then they hit their tweens.

They had some behavioral control issues as little children but it has been nothing but psychodrama and intense behavioral problems since they hit their teens. The oldest teen girl has tried to commit suicide three times and is in lock-down psychiatric care. The youngest teen is just plain destined for prison. She’s running amok and no amount of care and attention to help her has succeeded even in the slightest. She ditches school frequently, has been arrested and incarcerated twice, and runs with a crowd that does copious amounts of drugs and revels in debauchery.

Unfortunately, my coworker and his wife – both of whom are wonderful people and loving parents who doted on their adopted children – have come to deeply regret adopting outside of the USA. At least domestically, they’d have some viable recourse in the U.S. adoption system and/or U.S. courts to gain further knowledge of their adopted children’s history and the history of their parents so they could get effective treatment. The kids are most probably something along the lines of ‘crack babies’ but the adoptive parents will never know since Russia won’t tell them anything beyond what they were originally informed of – which was very little. The bare bones minimum was and is all they get.

It’s such a horrific mess and they’ve been enduring it for 15+ years. They actually live in fear that they’ll be murdered in their sleep by the youngest and had to dead-bolt their bedroom door.

A very happy and joyful beginning turned to years of utter suffering. On both sides of the coin. So sad.

SD Tom on January 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

It’s the “in” thing to do, like when many Americans were adopting Vietnamese children decades ago.
Oh, and they’re adopting a lot from Ukraine, too.
Chic, very chic.
Dr. ZhivBlago on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Exactly .
These days it is China instead of Vietnam .
Why NOT from Sudan and Haiti ?

burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:44 PM

SDTom, I am sorry for your friends experience, unfortunately nothing in life is guarenteed whether you have your own children to adopting domestically or from overseas. I wish your friends the best and to come out of it successfully, surely those girls would have fared much worse left in Russia.

Things have changed quite a bit through the years. Friends of mine that adopted recently from Russia got detailed health records as much as they would adopting domestically. Adopting is always a risk that should be weighed heavily as of course the fathers health background is often unknown and what the mother does when pregnant is not always disclosed or can be documented at birth. People who adopt should know the full range of risks and be able to make that decision for themselves whether domestically or internationally.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:53 PM

It’s the “in” thing to do, like when many Americans were adopting Vietnamese children decades ago.
Oh, and they’re adopting a lot from Ukraine, too.
Chic, very chic.
Dr. ZhivBlago on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM
Exactly .
These days it is China instead of Vietnam .
Why NOT from Sudan and Haiti ?
burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Because Haiti and Sudan don’t allow it genius. People don’t adopt based on where is trendy, they adopt from where they are currently allowed to.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:57 PM

SD Tom on January 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

The crack baby stuff was overblown media hype http://reason.com/blog/2009/01/28/from-crack-babies-to-normal-ki.

Fetal alcohol sydrome (FAS), on the other hand, is a foreover issue. The kids with only mild physical signs often get overlooked until they are older. Success probably means having a child who someday can live independently.

Nice to see all you commenters taking Putin’s bait and making adoption about nationalism. I assumed it was about parenting. There are unique problems to all forms of adoption, domestic and international. But denigrating international adoption without an understanding of the downsides of domestic adoptions adds nothing to the debate.

An Objectivist on January 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM

There are plenty of kids available in China, Kenya, Haiti, Somalia, Sudan, Bangladesh…. heck even in Saudi Arabia, who would hit the jackpot if they come to USA .
Why do these people want kids from Russia ?

burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM

I doubt Saudi Arabia is an option. Traditionally, Islam doesn’t accept adoption as we know it.

J.S.K. on January 13, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Sorry, I’m not sure currently where Haiti is in allowing US citizens to adopt. There was some issues during the earthquake where some adoptive parents or workers got arrested for kidnapping and maybe a hiatus.

Listen, there are all kinds of legal issues and concerns when working with foreign governments, so it’s sometimes not legal, or reliable, or whatever based on the country. But the idea that any prospective parents are sitting around saying, “let’s adopt from Russia, it’s what anyone who us anyone is doing” is patently absurd. It is the last thing people who want a child are thinking is what is chic. Like I said, people who want designer babies go the in vitro or surrogate route.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 4:14 PM

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

I think prospective parents have the right to know the healthcare profile of the children instead of being presented with little information and a lot of pressure. I know several people who have adopted little ones only to be find out they were severely limited or autistic and then have a lifetime of worries and dangers that they could have anticipated, and yes opted out of, if given proper information and records. If you think this is “sick” too bad.

As for Haiti, some of the “adoptions” have not taken place after years of time and expense. A friend is still waiting for the child she “adopted” since 2010!

Domestic adoption appears to have some sort of rules and regulations. The health data is in English and requires less travel and international red tape. We have disabled children here who need care and families.

I am sorry for those who cannot have children for whatever reason, but I am still convinced that unregulated foreign adoption is no answer for American society

clnurnberg on January 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM

As the Father of a beautiful 14 yo daughter adopted from a horrific Russian “orphanage” when she was 13 months old, I find the comments of some ignorant b@St@rds here to be rather shocking, and am amazed at such strong statements made showing you have little to no idea what you are commenting on. As opinionated as some liberal who spent their life sucking off the public tit talking like their theories on the private sector are the only truth to be considered.

91Veteran on January 13, 2013 at 5:39 PM

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Feel free to get off your high horse, Sweetheart. While American adopted parents might temporarily take custody of these emotionally and sexually abused fetal alcohol babies, once they turn 18 they become society’s problem, and WE end up supporting them through special Ed, increased psychiatric care, and even prisons. The fact that some parents are desperate does nothing to negate this.

Putin did us a favor.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 6:06 PM

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 6:06 PM

Maybe you should get to know a little bit more about it, “sweetheart“. The parents who adopt these kids don’t dump them on society, no matter what age.

GWB on January 13, 2013 at 6:40 PM

Feel free to get off your high horse, Sweetheart. While American adopted parents might temporarily take custody of these emotionally and sexually abused fetal alcohol babies, once they turn 18 they become society’s problem, and WE end up supporting them through special Ed, increased psychiatric care, and even prisons. The fact that some parents are desperate does nothing to negate this.
Putin did us a favor.
Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 6:06 PM

You could use this exact argument to force abortions on people who are carrying Down Syndrome babies.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 7:18 PM

Maybe you should get to know a little bit more about it, “sweetheart“. The parents who adopt these kids don’t dump them on society, no matter what age.
GWB on January 13, 2013 at 6:40 PM

Really??? Really-really??? So you are in a position to PERSONALLY guarantee me that adoptive parents of FAS babies will be able to maintain them for the duration of their natural lives without taking a dime of public support or the kids ending up in prison? Well, good for you!

Why don’t you offer your services to the parents above who have to padlock their own bedroom to ensure they are not murdered in their sleep.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 7:23 PM

You could use this exact argument to force abortions on people who are carrying Down Syndrome babies.

I most certainly could not. My brother is autistic and I spent many a summer as a teachers’ aide for special needs children. Down’s Syndrome children are NOT violent, and represent NO threat to society.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 7:28 PM

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM
I think prospective parents have the right to know the healthcare profile of the children instead of being presented with little information and a lot of pressure. I know several people who have adopted little ones only to be find out they were severely limited or autistic and then have a lifetime of worries and dangers that they could have anticipated, and yes opted out of, if given proper information and records. If you think this is “sick” too bad.
As for Haiti, some of the “adoptions” have not taken place after years of time and expense. A friend is still waiting for the child she “adopted” since 2010!
Domestic adoption appears to have some sort of rules and regulations. The health data is in English and requires less travel and international red tape. We have disabled children here who need care and families.
I am sorry for those who cannot have children for whatever reason, but I am still convinced that unregulated foreign adoption is no answer for American society
clnurnberg on January 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM

I think prospective parents should have the right to choose to adopt themselves based upon if *they* are contet with the amount of health background they have. You might not be confident with the amount of information available, but it is not up for me or you to decide that for someone else.

And it’s not unregulated foreign adoption, it’s a huge long beauracratic process from both countries.

Your friends experience in Haiti probably has a lot to do with the earthquake, but even so, yes it can be long and unreliable process, like I said, that is a risk prospective parents can make for themselves.

Yes there is need for adoption in this country, but very little compared to the demand and that is why people adopt from overseas. For anyone to think it is a good thing that childless parents who want to adopt orphans and now are not able to is a good thing, yes I think that is sick.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Feel free to get off your high horse, Sweetheart. While American adopted parents might temporarily take custody of these emotionally and sexually abused fetal alcohol babies, once they turn 18 they become society’s problem, and WE end up supporting them through special Ed, increased psychiatric care, and even prisons. The fact that some parents are desperate does nothing to negate this.

Putin did us a favor.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 6:06 PM

…another incredibly ignorant comment. Do you have any way to back up your assertion that every child adopted from Russia is like that? Do you know that Canadians also adopt children from Russia as well? Do you know that due to their socialized medicine that no matter the parents financial capability that no foreign adoption there is final until a Canadian doctor signs off on a clean bill of health?

Yours and other com enters here are like Piers Morgan making comments on gun control as if he’s an expert.

91Veteran on January 13, 2013 at 7:35 PM

I most certainly could not. My brother is autistic and I spent many a summer as a teachers’ aide for special needs children. Down’s Syndrome children are NOT violent, and represent NO threat to society.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 7:28 PM

…yet you are sure my daughter is violent and will be a burden on society?

91Veteran on January 13, 2013 at 7:37 PM

I most certainly could not. My brother is autistic and I spent many a summer as a teachers’ aide for special needs children. Down’s Syndrome children are NOT violent, and represent NO threat to society.
Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 7:28 PM

You just changed your argument. Your original point was not that there were a threat, but that at 18 they became society’s problem. My point is that is no different than any number of children either domestically adopted or biological children. Your point was that people shouldn’t be able to adopt because they might somehow depend on the state as adults. My point is you can use that same argument to supersede any person’s parental rights in this county. Thank goodness we do not.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Why NOT from Sudan and Haiti ?

burrata on January 13, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Because they’re absolute cesspits of disease. Russia’s healthcare system isn’t anything spectacular but it is also not a breeding ground for diseases that Western medicine hasn’t already or almost never sees.

MelonCollie on January 13, 2013 at 7:54 PM

I am sorry for those who cannot have children for whatever reason, but I am still convinced that unregulated foreign adoption is no answer for American society

Far from being unregulated, foreign adoption involves the regulations and oversight of the adoptive parent’s state, the USCIS and the government of the child’s country.

Potential adoptive parents take hours of classes, compile huge dossiers of their personal info, pass FBI background checks, etc.

Adopted children must be cleared to be adopted by their government and hen must pass a check up by US immigration before they get a visa (and yes, there are cases where the visas are denied…it’s not a rubber stamp process).

What additional regulations would you suggest to improve the process?

JadeNYU on January 13, 2013 at 10:08 PM

…another incredibly ignorant comment. Do you have any way to back up your assertion that every child adopted from Russia is like that? Do you know that Canadians also adopt children from Russia as well? Do you know that due to their socialized medicine that no matter the parents financial capability that no foreign adoption there is final until a Canadian doctor signs off on a clean bill of health?

Yours and other com enters here are like Piers Morgan making comments on gun control as if he’s an expert.

91Veteran on January 13, 2013 at 7:35 PM

1. Point out where I said “every child adopted from Russia is like that.”
2. Nice straw man. This article is SPECIFICALLY about Russia banning AMERICAN adoptions. Canadian adoptions might be either heartening or heartbreaking, but for this discussion they are IRRELEVANT.
3. Again, what constitutes a “final” adoption in Canada is irrelevant.
4. And please specify for me how, exactly, YOU are an expert.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 11:36 PM

…yet you are sure my daughter is violent and will be a burden on society?

91Veteran on January 13, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Where did I say she was violent?? The fact that YOU PERSONALLY have not had to deal with a violent adoption doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Just so you know, not only is the plural of “anecdote” not “data,” but neither is the singular.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 11:38 PM

You just changed your argument. Your original point was not that there were a threat, but that at 18 they became society’s problem. My point is that is no different than any number of children either domestically adopted or biological children. Your point was that people shouldn’t be able to adopt because they might somehow depend on the state as adults. My point is you can use that same argument to supersede any person’s parental rights in this county. Thank goodness we do not.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 7:39 PM

I did nothing of the sort, and your extreme emotionalism is interfering with your ability to read a sentence.

My post was specifically about fetal alcohol babies who have the potential to get increasingly out of control as they get older. They can be a threat before they turn 18, and they can be a threat after, but once they turn 18 their adoptive parents are no longer responsible for them.

ANYONE, for whatever reason, might become incapacitated and not be able to look after themselves. There’s a huge difference between needing food, housing and shelter provided by the taxpayers, and being a physical threat to those same taxpayers. I have no problem with the former. I have a HUGE problem with the latter.

I realize you’re the type of politically correct person who fancies yourself better than everybody else, but your starry-eyed idealism doesn’t trump my right to not be threatened walking to the subway or buying groceries.

Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 11:50 PM

Because Haiti and Sudan don’t allow it genius. People don’t adopt based on where is trendy, they adopt from where they are currently allowed to.

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:57 PM

No, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. What a stupid thing to say. People who want designer babies use surrogates usually. This is more why people do it…

http://oureyesopened.org/2012/12/618.html

rose-of-sharon on January 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Geez, sounds like a struck a nerve.

Yes they do…and to feel good about themselves.

I can see adopting under the following circumstances:

1. The couple are incapable of having children of their own.

2. They actually know the kid and adopt them because of his/her circumstances.

3. They adopt a family member whose parents are deceased or incapable of taking care of the child.

Using a virtual Craig’s List to find a kid to adopt halfway around the world is something else entirely. From what I’ve seen, these types are generally holy rollers, trendies and/or kooks.

I wasn’t born yesterday. If someone goes out of their way to do something they don’t have to, it’s probably because they want something, like how many foster care parents do it for the additional income. Altruism is little more than a theory.

Dr. ZhivBlago on January 14, 2013 at 12:13 AM

Geez, sounds like a struck a nerve.
Yes they do…and to feel good about themselves.
I can see adopting under the following circumstances:
1. The couple are incapable of having children of their own.
2. They actually know the kid and adopt them because of his/her circumstances.
3. They adopt a family member whose parents are deceased or incapable of taking care of the child.
Using a virtual Craig’s List to find a kid to adopt halfway around the world is something else entirely. From what I’ve seen, these types are generally holy rollers, trendies and/or kooks.
I wasn’t born yesterday. If someone goes out of their way to do something they don’t have to, it’s probably because they want something, like how many foster care parents do it for the additional income. Altruism is little more than a theory.
Dr. ZhivBlago on January 14, 2013 at 12:13 AM

Um, yes it did strike a nerve because what you just wrote has been one of the more ignorant and insulting things I’ve ever read on the Internet.

To think people are adopting foreign babies to feel good about themselves is ridiculous. Of course most, probably over 90%, of them fall into your approved category #1 and they cannot have their own child so they choose to adopt where their are babies or children up for adoption, which is often overseas more so than not. But to think they are doing it because it’s trendy, more chic than just having their own kids, is just ridiculous. What in the world are you even talking about, that altruism is little more than a theory? Go read the story I linked to upthread and come back and say that with a straight face. I personally know many people who have adopted with similar stories, they know they would love a child just as much if it was their own biological child or if it was their adoptive child, given that fact they prefer to give an orphan a better life. Not to be trendy, not to feel good about themselves, because they have compassion and care for innocent children and it brings them joy and happiness to raise one.

If what you’ve seen is holy rollers, trendies, and kooks, I feel sorry that is the only type of people you have contact with in your life, because it certainly doesn’t match anything I’ve encountered in reality. Personally I think you are talking out your back side to prove a point you tried to make with knowing absolutely zero about the topic.

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 3:05 AM

I did nothing of the sort, and your extreme emotionalism is interfering with your ability to read a sentence.
My post was specifically about fetal alcohol babies who have the potential to get increasingly out of control as they get older. They can be a threat before they turn 18, and they can be a threat after, but once they turn 18 their adoptive parents are no longer responsible for them.
ANYONE, for whatever reason, might become incapacitated and not be able to look after themselves. There’s a huge difference between needing food, housing and shelter provided by the taxpayers, and being a physical threat to those same taxpayers. I have no problem with the former. I have a HUGE problem with the latter.
I realize you’re the type of politically correct person who fancies yourself better than everybody else, but your starry-eyed idealism doesn’t trump my right to not be threatened walking to the subway or buying groceries.
Maddie on January 13, 2013 at 11:50 PM

First of all, extreme emotionalism? Lol. I do have extreme sympathy for the parents who are now not able to adopt their children, but I’m not the one running around screaming with all caps and acting frantic that because we allow foreign adoption you will no longer be safe to ride the subway or buy groceries. Wow.

Ok, so when I first read you post about “emotionally and sexually abused fetal alcohol babies,” I assumed you missed a few commas and were talking about different groups there because I have no idea what being sexually abused has to do with FAS, seems like they do not necessarily go hand in hand to me.

Ok, if your one, singular big fear is FAS babies, we can ban those. I can live with that. We can only allow foreign adoption of babies of whom someone can make an affidavit the mother did not drink excessively while pregnant, or whatever standard you like. They are a small percent and there are plenty of other orphans who came to their situation is other ways that can be reliably confirmed. I think your fear is silly and overblown to me, but I’m willing to compromise for the larger picture here and willing to give you the guarantee to no FAS babies entering the county for the larger good that foreign adoption provides to families.

Btw, little tip. When you have to throw around insults and ridiculous scenarios like…

I realize you’re the type of politically correct person who fancies yourself better than everybody else, but your starry-eyed idealism doesn’t trump my right to not be threatened walking to the subway or buying groceries.

It makes you look worse than me. Cheers!

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 3:27 AM

Btw, do you have a plan to deal with the babies born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to biological mothers in this country? I’m curious to hear what it is so your subway riding and grocery shopping is not endangered? LOL!

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 3:34 AM

And just to put this conversation back in the perspective of the original topic of the article… Here we have Putin, flexing his political muscle with this move to ban foreign adoption purely out of spite and show of power against the U. S.; Russians, let me repeat, thousands of the citizens of RUSSIA, come out in the freezing cold to protest this tragedy. Meanwhile, here in our country based on individual liberty and the rule of law, so-called conservatives who are supposed to stand for the sanctity of life and personal responsibility, bemoan their safety on the streets and defend Putin’s oppressive show of power.

I think this makes me mourn the future of our country more than anything has in a long time.

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 4:18 AM

Look, it is just a way from the Russians to place kids with serious developmental problems, like fetal alcohol syndrome. Once you take it you can’t give it back.

Why would anyone want such a thing? I think racism has a lot to do with it. There are plenty of kids here that need homes, but wouldn’t look like the rest of the family.

Well, good luck to them, but I think you are just getting a ‘kid in a poke.’

Denver Bob on January 14, 2013 at 10:49 AM

You are sick. “We” are not taking care of anybody. The adoptive parents want to, no one, especially us conservatives, are asking for any of your help. For you to be glad that childless parents and orphans cannot be put together baffles me saying it lightly.

Because Haiti and Sudan don’t allow it genius. People don’t adopt based on where is trendy, they adopt from where they are currently allowed to.

You could use this exact argument to force abortions on people who are carrying Down Syndrome babies

For anyone to think it is a good thing that childless parents who want to adopt orphans and now are not able to is a good thing, yes I think that is sick.

You just changed your argument. Your original point was not that there were a threat, but that at 18 they became society’s problem

Um, yes it did strike a nerve because what you just wrote has been one of the more ignorant and insulting things I’ve ever read on the Internet.

Meanwhile, here in our country based on individual liberty and the rule of law, so-called conservatives who are supposed to stand for the sanctity of life and personal responsibility, bemoan their safety on the streets and defend Putin’s oppressive show of power.

I think this makes me mourn the future of our country more than anything has in a long time.

It makes you look worse than me. Cheers!

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 3:27 AM

I repeat: You are an over-emotional basket case and you desperately need help. So no, I am not worse than you. Cheers!

Maddie on January 14, 2013 at 11:17 AM

I repeat: You are an over-emotional basket case and you desperately need help. So no, I am not worse than you. Cheers!

Maddie on January 14, 2013 at 11:17 AM

No, I have a heart. We are talking about innocnet orphans who are barely receiving basic care and people want to adopt them and give them a home. If anything justifies a bit of emotion this is it. It’s called compassion. Try it sometimes.

You, on the other hand, are wrapped up in fear mongering scare tactics of not being safe to go to the grocery store if someone disagrees with you.

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Ooops, reverse block quote above.

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Look, it is just a way from the Russians to place kids with serious developmental problems, like fetal alcohol syndrome. Once you take it you can’t give it back.
Why would anyone want such a thing? I think racism has a lot to do with it. There are plenty of kids here that need homes, but wouldn’t look like the rest of the family.
Well, good luck to them, but I think you are just getting a ‘kid in a poke.’
Denver Bob on January 14, 2013 at 10:49 AM

This is one of the main misconceptions I see on threads like this. There is absolutely NOT plenty of kids here that need homes. The vast majority of kids in the US in the foster care system are not up for adoption because the parent or legal custodian has not given up their rights but the child has been removed from their care due to drug abuse or something that makes them temporarily not competent. The US system always leans towards getting the child back with their biological family if possible and adopting them elsewhere is a last resort. Parents who provide foster care are amazing people, but it is a hard, hard thing to get emotionally attached to a child not knowing how long you will have them.

That is why people seek overseas adoption, not because they are shunning the children in this country of a different color. Again, a ridiculous insulting assumption and accusation. People who want a child could care less the color of their skin.

Of the couples I know who have adopted from overseas, 4 white couples, 1 adopted from Africa, two from China, and one domestically actually Hispanic. One couple I know adopted a white child from a former USSR country, they are mixed race parents white/asian.

They were all given medical information and the possible issues they might encounter, from minor to more. Places like China socially see things like a cleft lip as a stigma and orphans there will not receive corrective surgery. Where in the US they can live a normal full life as part of a family. But I suppose you consider them a ‘kid in a poke.’

Appalled.

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Accusing adoptive parents who choose a child from Russia of racism is exactly the same thing of accusing republicans who vote for Romney as racist. In both cases perhaps it’s a motivation for a tiny fragment, but throwing out that out broadly is largely unfair and inaccurate.

Becoming very disappointed.

rose-of-sharon on January 14, 2013 at 3:43 PM