Btw, Hitler attacked the USSR in the winter.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 11:24 AM

No, he didn’t. Hitler initiated an attack on the USSR in June 1941. How on earth could you consider that winter?

Anyway, I’m happy to teach you WWII history. It’s one of my interests so it doesn’t take much of an excuse for me to discuss it.

There was no “Second Amendment” in place in 1776, was there?

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 11:19 AM

Nope. But then again…why were british soldiers in lexington and concord again?

He wants Congress to take the lead on this (as usual) so that he bears as little responsibility as possible if it fails or even if it succeeds and there’s a major backlash.

You can substitute Rice/Clinton/Bush/Recalcitrant Republicans, anyone you wish, in this sentence. Obama can’t and won’t take responsiblity for anything, the MSM will ensure he doesn’t have to answer for anything, and the LIV that voted for him won’t hold him accountable for anything.

In Arab culture everybody owns guns, and yet it never prevented tyrants from coming to and keeping power.

AlexB

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Bad example. Everyone’s a “tyrant” in Islamic countries.

Some are worse than others, but I defy you to show me a “non-tyrant” Arab World leader.
The best one I can think of is the former (now deceased) King Hussein of Jordan. The current Jordanian leader hasn’t had enough journalist coverage, for me to speak on.

———————————-———————————-———————————-

In Israel there are 2 types of violent criminals: the street thugs, and the professional mafia types. Given that there are no street guns in Israel, and a very limited private ownership of them (I don’t count the ones carried by active military / security company people), the former type’s preferred weapon is knives and clubs. The latter use guns or very sophisticated means of killing the rare time it happens.

I am scared to imagine what would happen if the hot headed street thugs got their hands on guns, legal or illegal.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 1:33 PM

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If I’m understanding the preceding lines correctly, you’re stating that Israel currently has the kind of “gun-control” that Obama/Biden would like to institute, here.

Your going to have to prove that.
The premise that there are very few “privately owned” firearms in today’s Israel doesn’t jive, at all.

———————————-———————————-———————————-

So which is it, the fear of Stalin in America, the historical cultural thing of “we have to have guns because we always have”, or fear of violent criminals?

Neither of these 3 core propositions of pro-gun advocates makes sense when they don’t want to go along with assault-weapons and high capacity clip bans.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 1:33 PM

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In order as you sequenced them above, numbers one and three.

NOT number two.

I can’t think of anyone who gives any thought to; “we have to have guns because we always have”.
I’m wondering where you even came up with that.

The number one reason for the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is to keep our Governments (plural, because it includes Federal, State, and Local) from exercising DOMINION over the common citizens. All other uses of firearms come after that.

The “civilian, semi-auto versions” of military light weapons (read: Assault Rifles) are currently the best firearm of choice for this purpose.

The restriction on private gun ownership is not what will enable a dictatorship to emerge, and not what will prevent an insurrection if a dictatorship does emerge.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Yes it will keep the government in check, which is why such governments immediately move towards gun control. Weapons are a tool and can be used as they are in Arab cultures, or they can be used as they were in the American Revolution. Reserving guns for the men in power will just make certain that the average person is powerless, and that what they want doesn’t need to be taken into account when their elites consider legislation.

Power corrupts the hearts of men and trusting that only angelic creatures will walk the halls of power is insane.

That has more to do with Arab culture than anything else. Freedom is something you have to actually want before having guns will help you keep it.

sharrukin on January 10, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Exactly.

The restriction on private gun ownership is not what will enable a dictatorship to emerge, and not what will prevent an insurrection if a dictatorship does emerge. Hence “we gotta keep the government honest with our privately owned guns” is not a valid argument.

In Arab culture everybody owns guns, and yet it never prevented tyrants from coming to and keeping power.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 1:33 PM

That has more to do with Arab culture than anything else. Freedom is something you have to actually want before having guns will help you keep it.

toss on Cuba, or Russia, or Red China, or any number of others because they all tell the same story. The first step to eventual enslavement is the systematic disarmament of the civilian populace. Take that away, and everything you have left and everything else in our Bill of Rights is just words.

CaptFlood on January 10, 2013 at 11:57 AM

In Arab culture everybody owns guns, and yet it never prevented tyrants from coming to and keeping power.

Those weapons kept inside the homes of active Israeli military sevice personnell, have ammunition very close by, if not inside the weapon itself, at all times.
listens2glenn on January 10, 2013 at 12:22 PM

While they’re on weekend leave which lasts for 1 day (just the Saturday). It’s not at all as if they have the gun at home all the time. And the young soldiers you see in the cities with M16s, they’re on their way to or from the base.

In Israel there are 2 types of violent criminals: the street thugs, and the professional mafia types. Given that there are no street guns in Israel, and a very limited private ownership of them (I don’t count the ones carried by active military / security company people), the former type’s preferred weapon is knives and clubs. The latter use guns or very sophisticated means of killing the rare time it happens.

I am scared to imagine what would happen if the hot headed street thugs got their hands on guns, legal or illegal.

———————————-

So which is it, the fear of Stalin in America, the historical cultural thing of “we have to have guns because we always have”, or fear of violent criminals?

Neither of these 3 core propositions of pro-gun advocates makes sense when they don’t want to go along with assault-weapons and high capacity clip bans.

I do think Weigel’s right

And that’s when i stopped taking Allahpundit seriously.

If the Nazi Holocaust is brought into this debate (which I loathe to do, but ok…) then go ahead and examine how the people who were its victim treat weapons, and the lessons they took from it. Even in the crazy terrorist environment in Israel private citizens by and large don’t own weapons. The VAST majority of weapons owners are those in the service of the state.

There you have it.

Now, let’s continue this debate without citing Hitler or Jews, thanks.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 11:28 AM

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Those weapons kept inside the homes of active Israeli military sevice personnell, have ammunition very close by, if not inside the weapon itself, at all times.

The documented histories of any modern tyrants (since the invention of the “repeating” rifle using brass cartridges), are “open game” for examples of edicts disarming the citizenry.

You’re never going to separate Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin from this debate.

I am angry with myself because in my impotence, I do nothing about it, nor feel there’s anything I can do. I sit and type my meaningless opinions here.

freedomfirst on January 10, 2013 at 12:11 PM

One of the most honest statements I’ve ever read here, and a sentiment I’m sure is shared by many…

it’d be uncharacteristic of him to risk his own political capital

Many seem to assume he has the country’s best interests in mind and that he cares about his political capital.

I believe neither is true. I believe he’s wants to dismantle this country. I barely recognize it today. I fear it will get worse.

I am angry with myself because in my impotence, I do nothing about it, nor feel there’s anything I can do. I sit and type my meaningless opinions here.

listens2glenn on January 10, 2013 at 11:14 AM

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That’s cool.

But that shouldn’t be cited as the reason why Hitler didn’t attack the Swiss.

Btw, Hitler attacked the USSR in the winter. He made his infantry march 30+ miles every single day in sub-zero temperatures with poor rations and clothes for weeks and weeks and weeks. He was not scared of the Swiss in any way shape or form.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 11:24 AM

.
I’m pretty sure the first line of my comment was:

“The Alps protect Switzerland, blink.”

There was no “Second Amendment” in place in 1776, was there?

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 11:19 AM

No, the second Amendment simply codified what had already been a long established American custom of private gun ownership. And you can’t just shake the liberal wand and keep Hitler or the Jews from entering the dialog because for many of us, their story remains the penultimate cautionary tale. But go ahead, toss on Cuba, or Russia, or Red China, or any number of others because they all tell the same story. The first step to eventual enslavement is the systematic disarmament of the civilian populace. Take that away, and everything you have left and everything else in our Bill of Rights is just words.

Karl Magnus on January 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM

Actually, I did marry a woman like that. Then three armed thugs started robbing cars at a gas station two blocks away from our house, her car got vandalized, someone broke into our shed and stole some tools, and other facts of life. Nowadays, she wants me to hurry up and get my revolver fixed at the gunsmith.

There was no “Second Amendment” in place in 1776, was there?

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 11:19 AM

Actually, not true. The 1688 Bill of Rights states that no Protestant shall be debarred the use of arms.

Go lay down and roll over… Nothing can save you.

RalphyBoy on January 10, 2013 at 11:21 AM

You know, Israel gets cited very often by pro-gun advocates. You should do some research of what’s legal and what’s illegal in Israel in terms of gun ownership, what the rules are, who gets to own weapons, and which ones.

Only those on active military duty are supposed to carry weapons. Those in private security as well. If a civilian wants to get a weapon he has to go through months of hoop-jumping before he gets to own anything, and it’ll be either a primitive rifle or a simple handgun which as far as I know cannot be concealed.

If the Nazi Holocaust is brought into this debate (which I loathe to do, but ok…) then go ahead and examine how the people who were its victim treat weapons, and the lessons they took from it. Even in the crazy terrorist environment in Israel private citizens by and large don’t own weapons. The VAST majority of weapons owners are those in the service of the state.

There you have it.

Now, let’s continue this debate without citing Hitler or Jews, thanks.

listens2glenn on January 10, 2013 at 11:14 AM

That’s cool.

But that shouldn’t be cited as the reason why Hitler didn’t attack the Swiss.

Btw, Hitler attacked the USSR in the winter. He made his infantry march 30+ miles every single day in sub-zero temperatures with poor rations and clothes for weeks and weeks and weeks. He was not scared of the Swiss in any way shape or form.

Nothing would have saved Jews from the Nazis.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 10:21 AM

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Go lay down and roll over… Nothing can save you.

CaptFlood on January 10, 2013 at 11:07 AM

Doesn’t the above seem eerily similar to what’s going on right now in our very own country? Isn’t the ‘apparatus of the state,’ the media, and a sizeable number of our fellow citizens taking the first, tottering steps toward that very thing?

What thing exactly? Americans are some of the most vocal and organized government-petitioners on the planet, with some very outspoken rightists and leftists. I don’t see Michael Moore, Oliver Stone, Bill Maher, Alex Jones, Ann Coulter or Dennis Miller getting arrested.

What I see is the SecDef and a bunch of generals personally calling Terry Jones and begging him to change his behaviour. That’s the extreme opposite of what you’re suggesting is happening.

I’ll refer you to our own American Revolution…

There was no “Second Amendment” in place in 1776, was there?

blink on January 10, 2013 at 10:30 AM

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I don’t know, but not because Hitler was afraid of Swiss weapons. Hitler wasn’t afraid to pick a fight with USSR, so what would Switzerland have been to him? A walk in the park.

AlexB on January 10, 2013 at 10:52 AM

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The Alps protect Switzerland, blink.

But that didn’t stop the Swiss government from requiring ALL able-bodied young men from serving in the military. Also, all Swiss active military personnell are REQUIRED to keep their military weapon inside the home !

In 2007, the Swiss government reduced that requirement “slightly”, by disallowing the requirement for ammunition to be kept inside the home with the weapon.

She will not even entertain the idea of having one in the house…

You can’t even discuss it with these people…

BigWyo on January 9, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Why would a man even marry a woman like that?
I sure didn’t.
~(Ä)~

Nothing would have saved Jews from the Nazis. When you’ve got most of the government and country against you, with the entire apparatus of the state (police, military, judicial, press, etc.) hunting you down, marginalizing you… with all their superior weapons and training and other tools, a few armed citizens, including women, children and elderly, most of which were anti violence in general, would not have made a dent in anything.
Alex B

Doesn’t the above seem eerily similar to what’s going on right now in our very own country? Isn’t the ‘apparatus of the state,’ the media, and a sizeable number of our fellow citizens taking the first, tottering steps toward that very thing?

Furthermore, I’m not for banning all private ownership of guns. I’m for a very limited private ownership of guns, especially since the private citizen will NEVER be able to catch up with the government when it comes to the military organization, training, type of weapons, etc.
AlexB

I’ll refer you to our own American Revolution…

She will not even entertain the idea of having one in the house…

You can’t even discuss it with these people…

BigWyo on January 9, 2013 at 10:10 PM

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Why isn’t SHE writing the below statements on some blog?

“He will not even entertain the idea of living without one in the house…. You can’t even discuss it with these people…”

Why is SHE the one that gets her own way?

blink on January 10, 2013 at 10:26 AM

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Hey BigWyo, … maybe she could tolerate the new pistol by Ruger, commemorating our Senators and Representatives in DC.

It’s called “The Congressman”.