Pelosi: Obama should just use the 14th Amendment to set his own debt ceiling

posted at 8:01 am on January 7, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

It’s always good to see Congressional leaders defending the separation of powers, isn’t it? For someone who told reporters in November that she’s “always with the Constitution,” Nancy Pelosi seems eager to flush the legislative branch’s power of the purse down the drain when her political party controls the executive branch:

Pelosi’s solution to the impasse is for the president to — as some scholars have proposed — bypass Congres

s and invoke the 14th Amendment, which states that “[t]he validity of the public debt … shall not be questioned.”

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts and the Republicans weren’t saying ‘boo’ at the time,” Pelosi said when asked why Congress can’t solve these problems before they become crises.

“There should be — this is a conversation where there should be no doubt. In fact, if I were president, I would use the 14th Amendment, which says that the United States will always be paying … I would just go do it, right. But the Congress has incurred much of this debt. So what are we saying? We incurred it, but we’re not going to pay it? If you want to say we’re not going to do it so much in the future, well, that’s another thing, but you can’t say I’m not paying my past debts.”

This is an improvement for Pelosi. A few weeks ago, she didn’t know enough about the Constitution to pick the right amendment:

One reason why those Congresses always approved the debt ceiling increases is because those Congresses always passed a budget through normal order.  Pelosi’s Democrats have blocked that process since April 2009, and even in the final Bush term blocked the FY2009 budget in 2008 until Obama took office.  It’s not the Republicans who have been obstructing normal order on budgets, which would produce a debt ceiling increase to match the spending necessary in a normal budget.  The problem isn’t that Barack Obama needs dictatorial powers, it’s that Harry Reid has all but assumed them in breaking the law for the last three-plus years in refusing to produce budgets in the Senate.

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Lawlessness – its soooooooo useful!

Valkyriepundit on January 7, 2013 at 8:05 AM

Start of the day. Need more Coffee.

antisocial on January 7, 2013 at 8:06 AM

Debt-Go

Electrongod on January 7, 2013 at 8:06 AM

The 14th ammendment is in regards to CURRENT debt not FUTURE debt.

Pelosi is simply senile.

Freddy on January 7, 2013 at 8:06 AM

“If I were President…”

Kinda scary….

Electrongod on January 7, 2013 at 8:07 AM

Budget / Shudget… Who cares.

antisocial on January 7, 2013 at 8:08 AM

Are there any walls in San Francisco?

tom daschle concerned on January 7, 2013 at 8:08 AM

I think she would look absolutely stunning in a straight jacket.

DaveDief on January 7, 2013 at 8:08 AM

Looks like Pelosium is oozing out of her eyes,yet again!

It must be the titillation over Taxis/Spendis!

canopfor on January 7, 2013 at 8:10 AM

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts

Do these freaks even hear themselves? Massive under Bush, what word could possibly describe the debt under Barky?

I’m almost ready to give up, we are being ruled by stupid people.

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 8:10 AM

Dementia is a horrible thing.

kingsjester on January 7, 2013 at 8:11 AM

I have to ask myself……WHY would career politicians be willing to say and do things that will diminish their power and make them even less relevant?

WHAT is in it for them?

PappyD61 on January 7, 2013 at 8:12 AM

Half of congress should be in jail.

Yeah.. give Obama a free hand on spending and no Presidential vacation will be too expensive.

JellyToast on January 7, 2013 at 8:13 AM

Do these freaks even hear themselves? Massive under Bush, what word could possibly describe the debt under Barky?

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 8:10 AM

Gargantuan

Electrongod on January 7, 2013 at 8:13 AM

This vile sub-human monster is going to get one giant beating with the karma stick.

Happy Nomad on January 7, 2013 at 8:13 AM

I think the 14th also implies that we shouldn’t borrow what we can’t pay!!!

rgranger on January 7, 2013 at 8:14 AM

Are there any walls in San Francisco?

tom daschle concerned on January 7, 2013 at 8:08 AM

tom daschle concerned:Well,not exactly….(sarc)!:)
===================================================

Escape from L.A. Trailer [HQ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2iTJ6kTpcc

canopfor on January 7, 2013 at 8:14 AM

Why is this woman still in office? She is waaaaayyy past senility.

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 8:19 AM

Since when does he need the authority of the Constitution?

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:19 AM

Do these freaks even hear themselves? Massive under Bush, what word could possibly describe the debt under Barky?

I’m almost ready to give up, we are being ruled by stupid people.

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 8:10 AM

Bishop:Ugh,you had to ask!:)
===========================

Promotes a chart saying that Barack Obama has “increased the debt” by 16 percent, compared to George W. Bush, who increased it by 115 percent.

Nancy Pelosi on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 in a chart posted on her Flickr account
**************

Nancy Pelosi posts questionable chart on debt accumulation by Barack Obama, predecessors

A reader recently pointed us to a post on the website of MoveOn.org, a liberal group. The post features a bar graph titled, “Who Increased the Debt?” that offers figures for the past five presidents:

Ronald Reagan: Up 189 percent
George H.W. Bush: Up 55 percent
Bill Clinton: Up 37 percent
George W. Bush: Up 115 percent
Barack Obama: Up 16 percent

We can see why a liberal group would tout such numbers, since — if accurate — they offer powerful counterevidence to the claims by conservatives that President Barack Obama has been a spendthrift who’s set the nation on an unsustainable fiscal path.
(More…)
=========

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/19/nancy-pelosi/nancy-pelosi-posts-questionable-chart-debt-accumul/

canopfor on January 7, 2013 at 8:20 AM

IMHO, the 14th Amendment does imply that the repayment of our existing debt obligations is not up for discussion, but must happen.

The problem with Pelosi’s argument, however, is that failing to raise the debt ceiling will not result in us not paying our existing debt obligations.

Yes, it would result in a sudden and massive slashing of all other spending in order to maintain our debt obligations. But the money is there from incoming tax revenue to pay what we have to on the debt.

Since the 14th Amendment does not include a clause about how we are constitutionally obligated to fund the Department of Education, or pay food stamp benefits, or even cut Social Security checks, I don’t believe the president would have the constitutional authority to do much of anything without Congress.

Of course, lack of constitutional authority has never stopped this president before, but we can dream…

Shump on January 7, 2013 at 8:21 AM

Pelosi: Obama should just ignore Article I, Section 8, Clause 2.

As we say in The Ed Morrissey Show chat – Fsck that noise.

Steve Eggleston on January 7, 2013 at 8:22 AM

we are being ruled by stupid people.

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 8:10 AM

Congratulations on the Eureka moment.

antisocial on January 7, 2013 at 8:22 AM

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts and the Republicans weren’t saying ‘boo’ at the time,” Pelosi said when asked why Congress can’t solve these problems before they become crises.

Indeed. Nevertheless, Boo!

Boo, I say, and say it again: Boo! Because that’s what Republicans and conservatives walk around doing. We say “boo!”

BOO!

Axe on January 7, 2013 at 8:22 AM

Is there anyone dumber in Congress than Nancy Pelosi? I really doubt it… They may be some who are as dumb as her but not dumber…

Anyway the “paying of the debt” means paying the interest on the debt and that is $ 246 billion a year as of 2013… This can be paid from the tax revenues…

mnjg on January 7, 2013 at 8:23 AM

How do the citizens regain the power to impeach and imprison traitors such as these? Reid and Pelosi. They sicken me.

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 8:23 AM

Pelosi’s Democrats have blocked that process since April 2009, and even in the final Bush term blocked the FY2009 budget in 2008 until Obama took office. It’s not the Republicans who have been obstructing normal order on budgets, which would produce a debt ceiling increase to match the spending necessary in a normal budget. The problem isn’t that Barack Obama needs dictatorial powers, it’s that Harry Reid has all but assumed them in breaking the law for the last three-plus years in refusing to produce budgets in the Senate.

This statement annoys me. Here’s why:

The REPUBLICANS have been allowing Reid to obstruct the budget process every year, and continuing on as if saying, “move along folks, nothing to see here.” The far more proper course would be to state clearly and unequivocally that the debt ceiling will not be raised because THERE IS NO BUDGET FROM THE SENATE. And, when a budget appears to be considered–as is legally required–then the House will consider raising the debt ceiling.

This focuses the public on the deplorable and despicable and ILLEGAL actions by Harry Reid and Pelosi and Obama.

Congress has abdicated its responsibilities under the Constitution for so long that no one cares about it anymore apparently! They don’t demand it in the Republican caucus anymore than they do in the Democrat’s caucus.

Republicans CANNOT PRETEND to UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION WHEN THEY UNDERMINE IT EVERY SINGLE DAY–from declarations of War to an annual Budget.

Do your job Republicans!!!

mountainaires on January 7, 2013 at 8:25 AM

Nancy Pelosi seems eager to flush the legislative branch’s power of the purse down the drain when her political party controls the executive branch..

Given the chance, she would love to see the Constitution itself flushed down the drain!

The fact that she urges Obama to just lift the debt ceiling without Congressional approval should instantly disqualify her from serving in office any further.

Which leads to the next question………why is she still serving?

pilamaye on January 7, 2013 at 8:26 AM

Is there anyone dumber in Congress than Nancy Pelosi? I really doubt it… They may be some who are as dumb as her but not dumber…

mnjg on January 7, 2013 at 8:23 AM

I don’t think it’s a matter of the intellect as much as it is sanity.

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:27 AM

The American people told us in the election that they expect us to work together for fiscal responsibility, with the highest ethical standards and civility.

After years of historic deficits, this new Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: pay as you go, no new deficit spending. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt.

Looking back, it almost seems like comedy.

Fallon on January 7, 2013 at 8:28 AM

WHAT is in it for them?

PappyD61 on January 7, 2013 at 8:12 AM

PappyD61:Ahem:)
===============

A Nice Red Hot piece of Real Estate in Hades,er,H*ll
to rule over!
(sarc)

canopfor on January 7, 2013 at 8:28 AM

Since when does he need the authority of the Constitution?

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:19 AM

Exactly.

I think when she talked to reporters she simply misspoke and meant to say that she’s “always with the Constitution Constipation …”

ShainS on January 7, 2013 at 8:29 AM

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 8:23 AM

As a last resort, there’s always the 2nd Amendment.

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:29 AM

There’s also this little phrase in the 4th section of the 14th Amendment – “authorized by law”. As any debt issued beyond the debt limit is not authorized by law, it is not subject to the full faith and credit of the United States.

Steve Eggleston on January 7, 2013 at 8:30 AM

3) Section 3 of the 14th Amendment:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Bill Ayres bombed the U.S. Capitol building and the Pentagon. Bill Ayers engaged in insurrection and rebellion against the United States.

Question: Did Barack Obama ever give aid or comfort to Bill Ayers?

Bill Ayers admitted that Obama and he are “Family Friends”.

ITguy on January 7, 2013 at 8:34 AM

We the People are no longer a group capable of championing the rights and freedoms defined by our originating documents.

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 8:36 AM

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:29 AM

Have you read this?

ITguy on January 7, 2013 at 8:37 AM

I like geriatrics but I think once you’re 85 and on your 20th facelift, we’ve had enough of you in Congress.

That goes for you too McCain.

CorporatePiggy on January 7, 2013 at 8:42 AM

I think my 12 year old nephew knows more about government than she does.

gophergirl on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Is there anyone from the president on down that we can believe anymore?

docflash on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

ITguy on January 7, 2013 at 8:37 AM

Call me crazy but I am convinced that the only thing that will get their attention at this point is massive civil disobedience, either in the form of millions refusing to pay their taxes or an armed march on Washington.

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Is there anyone from the president on down that we can believe anymore?

docflash on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

No.

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts and the Republicans weren’t saying ‘boo’ at the time,” Pelosi said

Such compelling logic: “we did nothing to stop Bush from spending like a drunken sailor and running up a large debt, so why should we stop Obama from spending like a drunken sailor on steroids and piling even bigger debt on top of the huge debt we already had?”

With such keen and insightful reasoning, it’s easy to see why Nancy is in a position of such power and authority.

Anyone know where they sell pitchfork sharpeners?

AZCoyote on January 7, 2013 at 8:48 AM

After the Tax, ahem, *deal* passed to avoid the imminent Fiscal Cliff, the two rungs conservatives could cling to were the new permanence of Bush Tax rates, and the strong position we’d have over the Democrat Senate and President Obama in regards to spending and the debit limit. Tax rates can be changed by any Congress, and now by constitutional flim flam, there goes the advantage over spending and the debit limit (even if it is only a threat of 14th Amendment powers).

Who couldn’t see this move coming? He was a constitutional law professor for Pete’s sake (11th Amendment, 14th Amendment, whatevs).

This fellow is some sort of Chancellor Palpatine. He’s constantly 4 moves ahead of everyone else, and plays both sides against each other to achieve his ends. Joe Biden will come back with his reccommendations on Gun Control Sanity (for the Children), and then after that, it will be time to execute Order 66.

juanito on January 7, 2013 at 8:49 AM

The House should demand that Reid adopt a budget before they discuss raising the debt limit. We can’t go on spending our money on “candy” then demand more money to pay for our necessaries.

aknews on January 7, 2013 at 8:53 AM

Anyone know where they sell pitchfork sharpeners?

AZCoyote on January 7, 2013 at 8:48 AM

Leave it dull.

Axe on January 7, 2013 at 8:54 AM

For all you DUMB@$$ Obama Supporters…..how’s that working out for you?!

He promised NOT to raise Taxes on the Middle Class…and Obamacare, the bill shoved down the majority of Americans’ (who opposed it) throats, turned out to be the largest tax hike in U.S. History…and DOES IMPACT the Middle Class….. Stike/BETRAYAL #1…

Next came this B$ ‘Fiscal Cliff’ TAX BILL – a plan that was SUPPOSED to raise $1.6 Trillion in new revenue (taxes) over the next 10 years (while ADDING $1.7 trillion in new BEBT EVERY YEAR) in order to pay down the debt. What we all got was $3.8 TRILLION in New Debt, INCREASED Obama administration deficit spending, & 77% of ALL Americans – to include the Middle Class – are now paying higher taxes! Oh, and Obama did agree to spending cuts – $15 Billion OVER 10 YEARS….. Stike/BETRAYAL #2…

THEN Senate Democrats load the Hurricane Sandy Relief bill that the amount of pork almost DOUBLED the amount of money that was going to the victims – MASSIVE new pork/deficit spending, which is why you are paying higher taxes – so the Democrats/Obama can keep doing THAT! ….. Stike/BETRAYAL #3…

Then Obama comes out & declares IT DOESN’T MATTER HOW MUCH HE BORROWS / SPENDS….AS LONG AS YOU/WE KEEP GIVING MORE AND MORE OF ALL OF OUR MONEY TO KEEP PAYING FOR THEIR ‘PORK/WASTEFUL
SPENDING — He also declares that he will NOT agree to any spending cuts in exchange for an increase in the debt ceiling. ALSO, the Tax Plan he passed allows 2 automatic debt ceiling increases totallying $900 Billion, for if he doiesn’t get his increase…and both he & Pelosi have hinted at using the 14th Ammendment to either raise the debt ceiing himself or simply eliminate the ceiling altogether…getting rid of any roadblock to unlimited (nation-destroying) deficit-spending! …..Stike/BETRAYAL #4…

FINALLY: Pelosi said on Face the Nation that MORE TAX HIKES ARE COMING – THE Democrats plan to raise taxes even more because (with all their spending) the tax increase they just got “was not enough’!
….. Stike/BETRAYAL #5…

and there is nothing YOU or anyone else can do about it. You have doomed this nation to TYRANNY, taxation without representation…& economic collapse!

FINALLY

easyt65 on January 7, 2013 at 9:00 AM

…normally…the MSM would have had Pelosi committed to a mental instituion by now!

KOOLAID2 on January 7, 2013 at 9:00 AM

What a filthy b-itch.

VorDaj on January 7, 2013 at 9:02 AM

If the Founding Fathers had wanted this they would have supported King George and worked to give him even more power. That sick in the head woman should be locked up in a mental asylum.

VorDaj on January 7, 2013 at 9:03 AM

The first thing I would confront if I were the repubs is Harry Reid’s breaking the law. If he can’t abide by the law, I would refuse total contact as virtually aiding and abetting. And it is. Shut everything down.
Bring down the walls, that’s why they hate and mock the constitution, because it gives citizens such power over tyranny. Make no mistake from Obama down they fear what the constitution can do to them in the hands of patriots. That’s why they mock it. It’s the last thing you do before you destroy something, invalidate.
It will take courage, but it’s following the constitution. If Harry Reid can just ignore law and mock, that’s the first felon I’d lock down. I wouldn’t just murmur it when he wasn’t around, I’d call him on it everytime he walked in a room. “Why are you not in prison?! Why is he not in prison?!” I’d call him on it until the press hid from me.
Hell they’d all hide from me. ‘cept Alan Grayson, I expect he’s suffering long term from a head injury or something, he’s ignorant practically beyond accontability, probably not competent to stand trial sorta thing. I’d not go one step further in discussion until they dealt with Reid’s crime commited flagrantly three times in a row.
The marxist left has the repubs on the mat. They better stop worrying about their lofty careers and start worrying about this country.

onomo on January 7, 2013 at 9:05 AM

Fascists have no use for obeying any constitution. Unless it suits them.

rbj on January 7, 2013 at 9:05 AM

It appears Queen Pelosi only wants to enforce just certain parts of the 14th amendment and wants King Obama to ignore this part of it.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Strange but I don’t see the President’s name mentioned there. :-)

JeffinSac on January 7, 2013 at 9:05 AM

Here is what Nancy Pelosi promised on January 4, 2007 when she became Speaker of the House:

After years of historic deficits, this 110th Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: pay-as-you-go, no new deficit spending. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt.

- New Speaker Nancy Pelosi, 01/04/2007

On the day that Nancy Pelosi said that, the Total Public Debt Outstanding was less than $8.7 Trillion.

For the last 6 years, Democrats have held majority control of Washington, D.C. (holding 2+ out of 3 of the House, Senate, and Presidency) and now, after 6 years of Democrat majority control, the Total Public Debt Outstanding is more than $16.4 Trillion, an increase of over $7.7 Trillion since Pelosi and the Democrats promised “no new deficit spending”.

Pelosi is a blatant liar. She promised “no new deficit spending” but then TRIPLED deficit spending in her first budget as Speaker (FY 2008) and TRIPLED deficit spending AGAIN in her second budget as Speaker (FY 2009).

The last budget produced by a Republican House, Republican Senate, and Republican President was signed in 2006 for FY 2007, and resulted in deficit spending of $161 Billion.

Let’s compare the deficit spending from the last Republican-majority budget to the deficit spending from Pelosi’s four Fiscal Years:

FY 2007 Last Republican majority budget: $161 Billion in Deficit spending.

FY 2008 Pelosi and the Democrat majority’s 1st budget: $459 Billion in Deficit spending.

FY 2009 Pelosi and the Democrat majority’s 2nd budget: $1,413 Billion in Deficit spending.

FY 2010 Pelosi and the Democrat majority’s 3rd FY (no budget): $1,293 Billion in Deficit spending.

FY 2011 Pelosi and the Democrat majority’s 4th FY (no budget): $1,300 Billion in Deficit spending.

Budget numbers directly from the White House Office of Management and Budget

Despite Pelosi’s promises of committing to a higher standard of “pay-as-you-go” and “no new deficit spending”, she presided over historic deficits well over a Trillion dollars per year.

She is a bald-faced liar, and no one should take her seriously.

ITguy on January 7, 2013 at 9:07 AM

I think my 12 year old nephew knows more about government than she does.

gophergirl on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Not when it comes to a fascist government.

VorDaj on January 7, 2013 at 9:08 AM

Sections 4 & 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment:

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Please note the absence of the words “President,” “Treasurer,” “Executive,” “Executive Branch,” and “Treasury.”

THE CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER…NOT THE PRESIDENT.

Resist We Much on January 7, 2013 at 9:09 AM

Hogwash Nancy, you’re again tangled up in your liberal perverted logic. Default occurs when we fail to pay the interest on our debt and that will never happen because there is more than enough in our revenue stream to pay that bill. Not raising the deb limit would preclude further spending and would require the elimination of some programs and current spending. let Obama challenge the debt limit in court and he will lose that argument.

rplat on January 7, 2013 at 9:10 AM

I think my 12 year old nephew knows more about government than she does.

gophergirl on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

In fairness though, your nephew probably hasn’t grown up with a habit of smearing lipstick across his face while staring in the mirror and saying “Aren’t I pretty? So so pretty” as Pelosi has.

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 9:11 AM

Although he tries to slip it all in under another guise
To all his fascist action most foul we must still be wise
In spite of all the Houdini lies
Dancing in Obama’s evermore Mussolini eyes!

VorDaj on January 7, 2013 at 9:11 AM

Speaking of the national debt…

Pic of the Day: Epic Meet The Press Fail

Resist We Much on January 7, 2013 at 9:12 AM

VorDaj has a good point. The most disturbing thing about Pelosi isn’t Pelosi. She’s a kook. Any conservative with a middle school education could debate her to shame. It’s that she keeps getting re elected by apparently a legion of kooks, and she’s routinely and completely validated by all of mainstream.

onomo on January 7, 2013 at 9:14 AM

Pelosi couldn’t tell you the difference between the 1st and 2nd amendments, but I’m sure she could recite the complete history of the Folsom Street and Up Your Alley fairs.

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM

Pelosi couldn’t tell you the difference between the 1st and 2nd amendments, but I’m sure she could recite the complete history of the Folsom Street and Up Your Alley fairs.

Bishop on January 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM

Bishop:Ugh,that so-called Fair,is …

….SCROTCHED!!!!

canopfor on January 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM

We see this on HA but where else will we see it? These Progressives have full support of anything else called the press either print or broadcast and will receive absolutely no opposition to their nonsense. Too bad, this was a grand country at one time.

Pardonme on January 7, 2013 at 9:25 AM

Call me crazy but I am convinced that the only thing that will get their attention at this point is massive civil disobedience, either in the form of millions refusing to pay their taxes or an armed march on Washington.

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Okay. You’re crazy. And here’s why:

(Sorry this is so long. I would like other’s perspectives on this topic)

The concept of currency is that it represents work. You trade the output of your work for currency and then trade that currency for the results of others’ work. That is how it is supposed to work. In theory, refusing to pay taxes would starve the government who could then no longer pay its debts.

In such system, counterfeiting currency is illegal, but can be very rewarding for the counterfeiter. The cheap, easy to produce fake currency misrepresents the work to make it. A person can receive full value of someone else’s labor with little or no labor investment of their own.

Now the first person who uses that fake currency will receive 100% of the face value of that currency. But left in the system, it effectively “dilutes” the value of each real dollar with every subsequent transaction.

So if you have a total work output of $1000, only $1000 should exist in currency. If someone introduces $1000 in fake currency and it’s left in the system, you may still have the same labor output, but each work dollar is now represented by $2.

This effect is what we commonly call inflation. It is important then to note that the problem starts long before we experience it as price inflation.

This brings out a few important points:

The rate at which an economy will experience the inflation effect is determined by how much extra money is printed and how quickly its value reaches an equilibrium with the amount of work done.

It is my assertion that the U.S. govt is counterfeiting dollars and using them at full face value. And that the only reason our inflation rate is as low as it is, is that companies are “on the sidelines”, keeping ever increasing amounts of devaluing dollars from showing their devaluation because such devaluation only shows when the dollars are active in the system.

Now if those in office were doing this with a purpose of destroying our currency, then they would need more dollars to circulate in the system. To do this, they would need those holding dollars to spend them. They would call those who chose not to spend “unpatriotic” in an effort to coax spending. Or they could force those dollars into play by confiscating them through new taxes and fees.

This is what Karl Marx meant by crushing capitalism between taxes and inflation.

But our benevolent leaders would never try anything so treasonous, right?

Viewed in this way, we are on borrowed time here and are lucky investors are still sitting it out. Once the spending starts, we will be destitute.

A tax revolt will not stop govt spending or the printing of further devaluedcash.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong…

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 9:35 AM

Nothing quite says “Banana Republic” like platinum Monopoly-money.

FerdtheMoonCat on January 7, 2013 at 9:38 AM

Pelosi babbles and the country’s credit rating goes into the dumpster.

GarandFan on January 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Ms. Pelosi, call on line 2 for you, a Mr. Ragnar Danneskjold…”

Bill of Rights on January 7, 2013 at 9:54 AM

You can’t cure stupid but you can damn sure vote it into office.

Oldnuke on January 7, 2013 at 10:00 AM

Funny, I look at the 14th as meaning, “Don’t commit to spend what you can’t pay for!!!” But I have been told that is just “Crazy talk!”

rgranger on January 7, 2013 at 10:06 AM

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts and the Republicans weren’t saying ‘boo’ at the time,” Pelosi said when asked why Congress can’t solve these problems before they become crises.

As Bishop alluded to: Define Massive.

So will Nan be taking back any past criticisms of Bush’s deficits? Or will she remind us that Presidents have no fault because the house controls spending? Say what did Nan do for the deficit that last time she was Speaker?

“The Bush administration has spent us into record deficits and piled mountains of debt onto our children, Budget experts agree that the line-item veto would do little to control deficits.”-Nancy Pelosi

I am sure she will come out against Obama any time.

She’s a hoot.

Funny, I look at the 14th as meaning, “Don’t commit to spend what you can’t pay for!!!” But I have been told that is just “Crazy talk!”

rgranger on January 7, 2013 at 10:06 AM

You’re wrong. It means : Spend like there is no tomorrow.

CW on January 7, 2013 at 10:20 AM

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts”

So I take it Congress was just a collection of innocent bystanders….

… and the “Bush” debts were “massive” while the Obama debts are minor (?) ….

I guess this illustrates the danger of allowing lies to pass unchallenged. The lies just keep getting bigger and bigger. Now she thinks she can get away with pretending that Obama hasn’t tripled Bush’s level of spending, and that she can duck all responsibility for the fact that Bush’s biggest spending all occurred once the Democrats took control of Congress — even to the extent that they refused to pass a budget in the last year of the Bush administration because Bush wasn’t letting them spend enough, and just held it over for the next president.

Is Pelosi now a synonym for “shameless?” As in, “Wow, that was a Pelosi of a whopper!”

There Goes The Neighborhood on January 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Botox Nan can threaten to use the 14th Amendment all she wants, but as others have pointed out, the 14th Amendment clearly says the Congress is the ONLY entity that can raise the debt limit, incur bills on behalf of the USA and pay those debts.

Here’s a thought Nancy Pelosi: Pay the bills owed and STOP SPENDING money we do not have.

Question #1: Since we already know the GOP will not stop the insanity, when do We the People do something about it other than just complain about it and call names on blogs?

Question #2: Since voting does not provide us any relief, what can We the People do, and when?

I’m totally serious. It’s time to put up or shut up. Our ranting does nothing but raise the blood pressure. Neither party in Congress is actually representing the people – they are all playing a political game and the GOP has a very weak team who falls over every single time. (Name ONE victory for We the People in the last 4 years.)

After Owebama was elected, we started all these “grass roots” groups, held tea parties, marched 1 million strong on DC and elected a few of “our” candidates. NOTHING happened. We still LOST.

I’m looking for answers.

katablog.com on January 7, 2013 at 10:38 AM

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 9:35 AM

Assuming for the moment that we’d have a Congress that really DID want to do something about the problem, what WOULD we have to do to reverse or slow down the process at this point?

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 10:42 AM

The next step is to pass a staged reduction in the growth of debt.

That is to say that there should be 3 month increments of the debt ceiling, but passed for a period of a year or so. This will deflect attention from Congress to the Executive, who will then have 3 month “report cards.”

Basically, this is the same method that is being used to “squeeze savings” out of Medicare.

J_Crater on January 7, 2013 at 10:42 AM

We live in Crazyworld now.

It is apparently sane to spend 1.6 dollars for every dollar in taxes and revenue in perpetuity.

It is sane to ignore unsustainable entitlement spending in the midst of examples within the US and around the world of the effects.

It is sane to torture and twist the words of our governments founding documents in opposition to what the real intent is.

As said above, the 14th amendment is designed to make us as good as our word and pay our debts. In addition, the other good note from readers notes that it is only the debt incurred that is authorized by law. Pelosi’s comment is either evil or undeucated (perhaps both?), but it is not rational.

Current monetary policy is to print more money. The effect will be an attempt to use inflation to negate paying what we owe. It is a matter of time. I am surprised inflation is not higher already. Thinking you can control inflation once unleashed is not rational either.

As each day goes by, US Citizens are allowing a non-violent coup to continue. It has been going on for years, but the pace is accelerating.

I’m lost. I do not know how we get back from Crazyland to the USA.

Jgriff on January 7, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Can anyone else see how the right to bear arms figures into the current discussion on the national debt? Criminal politicians will have to disarm us soon and prior to them ruining our currency. Otherwise, individual, ordinary citizens may elect to enforce term limits on our corrupt, criminal politicians, Democrats and, ESPECIALLY, LYING RINO REPUBLICANS. Is this what our Founding Fathers foresaw and predicted?

newpine on January 7, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Republicans in the House should counter that if Obama supercedes his authority to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling, they will also defund a number of departments and make deep slashes in the budget. They would also initiate impeachment proceedings against him.

Unfortunately, that presupposes that we have real “leaders” in the House which we all know NOT to be true. With wimps like Boehner in charge, Obama would do it and nothing will happen to him.

TheRightMan on January 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Watch for this fuzzy wording from democrats:

Liberal and centrist Democrats say revenues collected through tax reform should go to deficit reduction.

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/275815-democrats-looking-for-up-to-1t-in-new-tax-revenues-this-year#ixzz2HIzMIJ6v

Sorry it is from another article, but here is how this idea will be twisted:

“Democrats want to pay down the debt, and Republicans won’t LET them raise enough money to do that.”

When actually, they want to raise more taxes to pay for NEW spending, that would be more deficit spending in today’s situation. This is the “deficit spending” they want to address, not paying off the debt that stands now. Not working on the deficit for borrowing that covers the spending on the books now.

Mrs. Pelosi thinks that a democrat President ought to be able to authorize the spending he “needs” to do the things that suit his campaign message. It is mis applied thinking…you campaign on it, people vote for it, and therefore they voted for the cash to go with it…the way they twist things, like if congress passed all these laws, they congress ought to pony up enough spending to cover it (Barbara Boxer said that, last week.)

The yearly deficits, and the debt, and this year’s deficits are all confusing terms for people who think voting has to do with texting the number they like best to American Idol.

Fleuries on January 7, 2013 at 11:00 AM

Pelosi has the dull lifeless eyes of a shark.

UltimateBob on January 7, 2013 at 11:00 AM

1) Funny thing about Obama and the 14th Amendment…

2) Funny thing about Obama and the 14th Amendment… (continued)

ITguy on January 7, 2013 at 8:29 AM

1) Since nobody with any influence cares about things like President Obama’s qualifications, the issues are dead. We had an election and it wasn’t even mentioned.

2) The Democrats have some deep seated rage about President Bush’s profligate spending. They feel he wasted all that money while they have vital programs and reasonable expenditures.

3) If you have no grasp of math or finance, the entire Republican resistance on spending has an irritating quality and perhaps a sinister or hateful motivation.

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 11:09 AM

“We always passed the debt ceiling [increases] when President Bush was president, as he was incurring these massive debts and the Republicans weren’t saying ‘boo’ at the time,”

Sooo… the debt that Zero and your fellow Dems have rung up must be Ginormous-Spectaculossol! Right? Sheesh, this is the same mental giant who said, “We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it!” Which, in my opinion should have earned Madame Pelosi either a jail cell or a stay in the Rubber Ramada. I am starting to believe that liberalism is an early warning sign of serious mental disorder.

WHAT is in it for them?

PappyD61 on January 7, 2013 at 8:12 AM

Any and every precedent they can use to ultimately get rid of that pesky old document that stands in their way.

ghostwalker1 on January 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM

Our lost dialectic.

Her posture is another testament of the failure of the 2012 campaign* and the failure of the media to move issues forward by providing a foil to both sides in news conferences, interviews and an informed public.

A democracy or republic freezes when both the election campaigns and media reporting fail to provide synoptic presentations and keep the dynamic of an active consideration of issues operating.

Nobody has noticed how the fawning media, a weak opposition party and the general manipulation of the electorate are setting a destructive trajectory in governance. Thank God we are not facing even more serious problems today.

Thank goodness it was Benghazi and not Pearl Harbor.

It is mostly just money.

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 11:22 AM

Will someone PLEASE just throw a bucket of water on this hag & give her broomstick to the Wizard so he will give us something out of that lil’ red velvet bag to help Obama go away & our nation to recover from this Liberal/Progressive nightmare?!

easyt65 on January 7, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Mrs. Pelosi says she ALWAYS RAISED THE DEBT cieling when George Bush was president…THAT IS BECAUSE SHE WAS WRITING THE SPENDING BILLS!
while “George Bush” was “spending lavishly”… We republicans have been trying to get her to admit to this for about 6 years now.

What we see now, is that when Obama doesn’t want to sign things, he doesn’t have to, but when Bush didn’t want to sign them in to law, he was trying to kill children.

Fleuries on January 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM

God damn the gnatbrains.

Schadenfreude on January 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Assuming for the moment that we’d have a Congress that really DID want to do something about the problem, what WOULD we have to do to reverse or slow down the process at this point?

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Great question.

Unfortunately, the answer is “nothing”. It has gone on too long. We as a country already owe more money than exists in the entire world. Since it is now impossible to pay the money back, even if the tax rates were at 100%, inflation must occur. This means all your savings, all my savings, everyone’s savings are actually worth nothing, but have yet to circulate to zero value. I say zero here because even though it would in theory still have some value, currency loses value when its ass-wiping utility outweighs its buying power. It then becomes a commodity.

All Congress can do is marginally affect the rate at which the system crashes. No republican wants it to crash on their watch. The liberals would like it to crash right now, but are content to continue siphoning our wealth into their own pockets until the crash comes. Not that the money would be worth any more to them, in the long run it isn’t. But it is worth something now and they use that money now to purchase something that will be worth much more later: power over you. They are draining the power of wealth from their foes and investing it in the power of their friends.

Bad news, I know. I thought I would take the opportunity to share this before the powers-that-be and the powers-that-will-be destroy the people who provide free speech forums such as this.

Looks like I picked a bad time to quit smoking, drinking and video games…

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 1:05 PM

When China refuses to buy our debt because of a fear that we won’t be able to pay it back, Pelosi can go over there and tell them that its unconstitutional.

dcman98 on January 7, 2013 at 1:16 PM

When China refuses to buy our debt because of a fear that we won’t be able to pay it back, Pelosi can go over there and tell them that its unconstitutional.

dcman98 on January 7, 2013 at 1:16 PM

I think China wised up a while ago. They were pretty slow witted to invest so much in the U.S., considering that Japan has suffered for more than 20 years because of exactly the same type of overinvestment.

I believe the next move for China will be a push to force us to index the debt to the yuan or, heaven forbid, gold. Progressives would love that as it will weaken America’s self-concept, further limit the Fed’s control over the currency and render our outstanding debt visibly permanent. It is already mostly-permanent, but the optics are bad to say that now. Pelosi and crew might even get some responsibility splashed on them. Much better to have the Chicoms wear the black hats. This would probably be a good time for the sitting Treasury Secretary to bow out. I already feel sorry for the mark who takes that position next.

Now, repeat after me, “It’s all George Bush’s fault”…

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Unfortunately, the answer is “nothing”. It has gone on too long. We as a country already owe more money than exists in the entire world. Since it is now impossible to pay the money back, even if the tax rates were at 100%, inflation must occur. This means all your savings, all my savings, everyone’s savings are actually worth nothing, but have yet to circulate to zero value. I say zero here because even though it would in theory still have some value, currency loses value when its ass-wiping utility outweighs its buying power. It then becomes a commodity.

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Cleombrotus on January 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Now, repeat after me, “It’s all George Bush’s fault”…

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Ok, it is all George Bush’s fault.

Did you miss my prior post wherein the left has offered the hypothesis that even the new, problematic EPA rules are Bush’s fault?

See the new York Times December 30, 2010 or search William K Reilly although Media Matters is still carrying on (and honestly quoting the source) —- such comments were clearly made then.

“These are hand grenades, and the pins have been pulled,” said William K. Reilly, administrator of the environmental agency under the first President George Bush…..With Mr. Obama’s hand forced by the mandates of the Clean Air Act and a 2007 Supreme Court decision, his E.P.A. will impose the first regulation of major stationary sources of greenhouse gases starting Jan. 2.

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Now, repeat after me, “It’s all George Bush’s fault”…

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM

For more pearls from your opposition on this topic, search Media Matters, September 5, 2012 12:52 PM EDT ››› SIMON MALOY and the blog piece, Quoting Paul Ryan On The Debt

Candidate Paul Ryan commented on the debt spiral while on the campaign trail. “Of all the broken promises from President Obama, this is probably the worst one because this debt is threatening jobs today, it is threating (sic) prosperity today,”

Here, the majority of the present debt is laid at the feet of Candidate Paul Ryan and former President Bush.

“Uncritical quotation of Ryan’s debt attack abounds — NBC, ABC, the Los Angeles Times, National Journal, and so on. But as Ezra Klein pointed out during last week’s Republican National Convention, which featured a prominently displayed debt clock in the convention hall, the majority of current debt can be laid at the feet of George W. Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress of the early 2000s.

The specific Bush-era policies driving debt, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, are the tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the bailouts of Wall Street and Fannie and Freddie. Economic recovery measures put in place under Obama, i.e. the stimulus, play a comparatively miniscule part in the total debt picture.”

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Pelosi’s argument is absurd. the Amendment says, in part, “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.” But that does not give Obama free rein to spend money any way he chooses. Additionally, any public debt must be “authorized by law”—which certainly would not be the case if Obama ignored the law.

Colony14 on January 7, 2013 at 2:19 PM

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 2:16 PM

I think we need an accounting firm to do a tabulation as somebody is really losing track of the numbers here.

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 2:25 PM

Blame….blam!

I have come to agree with you more strident posters here.

In addition to the slams above, see this poster, who shall remain anonymous since his thinking is so utterly consistent with my liberal friends, I could quote them. To save time, scan most then just read the bold:

Here are some more lies that are in need of attention. Lie #1: Republicans care deeply about the debt. Look at the debt progress over the last 30 years. They only care about the debt when they don’t occupy the White House. When they do occupy the White House it’s big tax cuts and big spending on their favorites.Free wars for everybody. Massive unfunded mandates. Insane missle systems. Lie#2 Republicans care deeply about unemployment. Hogwash. They care about cutting off unemployment benefits in order to preserve tax breaks for the rich. When they have the White House then suddenly the stock market is the real indicator of the economy. Lie#3 The president is solely responsible for the debt. Appropriations are done by the house of representatives which has been controlled by republicans since jan. 2011, so they have a trillion or so to add to GWs total during the 6 years he had the house in GOP hands. I have lots more if you like.

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Now, repeat after me, “It’s all George Bush’s fault”…

ROCnPhilly on January 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM

I am leaving this now.

You have some other conservative (my economist) alone and off fighting at least six liberals on this subject. I am deserting him as I am tired.

You are the very devil.

Well done.

IlikedAUH2O on January 7, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Like a good train wreck. We just can’t get enough of these freaks.

yhxqqsn on January 7, 2013 at 3:33 PM

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