Mom shoots intruder, saves kids

posted at 2:01 pm on January 6, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

How many times during the recent gun grabbing debate have you heard these arguments?

Self defense is a bogus argument. Having a gun in your home, you’re more likely to shoot yourself or your spouse than to ever fend off a bad guy. Only trained law enforcement professionals can safely use weapons like that.

May I introduce you to Donnie Herman’s wife

The woman was working in an upstairs office when she spotted a strange man outside a window, according to Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman. He said she took her 9-year-old twins to a crawlspace before the man broke in using a crowbar.

But the man eventually found the family.

“The perpetrator opens that door. Of course, at that time he’s staring at her, her two children and a .38 revolver,” Chapman told Channel 2’s Kerry Kavanaugh.

The woman then shot him five times, but he survived, Chapman said. He said the woman ran out of bullets but threatened to shoot the intruder if he moved.

The intruder, 32-year-old Atlanta resident Paul Slate, had been out of jail for all of four months or so, one of six arrests since 2008. He fled the house but crashed his car a short distance away and collapsed where he was found on the ground by police. So how is old Paul doing now?

Chapman said they found him on the ground saying, “Help me. I’m close to dying.” Slater was taken to Gwinnett Medical Center for treatment. Chapman said Slater was shot in the face and neck…

Channel 2’s Amy Napier Viteri learned from Chapman late Friday night that slater has been placed on a ventilator and suffers from punctured lungs, a punctured liver and a punctured stomach.

He said if Slater survives the night, doctors will try to operate in the morning to repair the damage.

Chapman said Slater has four exit wounds.

The woman’s husband was short and succinct on the subject.

“My wife is a hero. She protected her kids. She did what she was supposed to do as responsible, prepared gun owner,” Donnie Herman said.

He said he’s thankful for his family’s safety.

“Her life is saved, and her kids’ life is saved, and that’s all I’d like to say,” Herman said.

I don’t have a lot to add to this story beyond highlighting it and opening it up for your consideration and discussion. But I would add one note of caution. Thus far the woman in question doesn’t seem to be talking to the press and that’s her right. Regardless of her success in defending her family, Donnie Herman’s wife has undoubtedly been through a traumatic experience and if she wants to maintain her privacy and not turn this into some sort of circus side show, the media should respect her wishes.

But she can still serve as a useful example as we consider any future Second Amendment questions. Everyone called Wayne LaPierre crazy when he said that the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun. Or sometimes, a good lady with a gun. Food for thought.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Dang link filter.

Maybe the interesting story I painstakingly documented a while ago will eventually show up once Jazz or some moderator checks it over to make sure I’m not spamming the forum with porn sites.
:-(

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 6:48 PM

That’s not a group of marksmen.

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 6:42 PM

That’s not the point.

The point was that being good on the gun range didn’t translate into being able to hit something when it got real. Adrenalin is a heck of a drug.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Right, Sparky. Not all 357′s come standard with a “LONG BARREL.”

Tenwheeler on January 6, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Only shot long barrel match .357M. Smooth and controllable. Sold a Walther PPS .40 because it was harsh. Prefer the Ruger SR40C. Very accurate and good for carry.

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 6:53 PM

What’s rhe differences among .45 caliber bullets?

davidk on January 6, 2013 at 6:55 PM

what kind of projectile do you reload with? Or do you just do this for the target practicing?

astonerii on January 6, 2013 at 6:32 PM

I reload only for training. I advise EVERYONE to use factory ammo for carry purposes. As far as training loads, I like Montana Gold projectiles coupled with TiteGroup (accuracy) or Power Pistol (to annoy fellow marksmen with power, flash and bang).

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Taurus makes a nice J model 5 shot 357 Mag.Same size as the 38 special Taurus.Plus you can use 38 in it also.Price about the same but twice the bang for the bucks.

logman1 on January 6, 2013 at 6:10 PM

That’s what I was going to say.

A lot of times women who don’t have shooting as a main interest, or their men who want them protected, prefer revolvers because they’re easier to use and generally don’t have the potential to malfunction. But there is a number of lighter-weight revolvers out there chambered for 357 magnum. (Although you have to sacrifice a round or two of capacity on small-frame 357s.) Some have as a standard option built-in laser grips, which, who knows, might have helped in this situation.

WhatSlushfund on January 6, 2013 at 7:06 PM

Shame on you, Jazz Shaw. This story is obviously complete and total right wingnut BS. Everyone knows that guns only kill little children in grade schools, and the kids of idiot right wingnuts who leave them laying around the house loaded. Or Dick Cheney’s hunting partners.

I haven’t seen this story on NBC, CNN, ABC or CBS…so it’s clearly not true. Stop the hate, Jazz!

/s

Jaibones on January 6, 2013 at 7:15 PM

By the way, saw a movie commercial/trailer just now that had Jeremy “butt-boy” Renner holding something that looked like a rocket launcher in one of his guns ‘n blood movies.

Good times.

Jaibones on January 6, 2013 at 7:16 PM

A scary read: http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

Make sure you understand it is fiction. Maybe.

davidk on January 6, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Thanks. I picked up on what the point was almost immediately.

Here’s another: If I wanted to determine if stress degraded swimming performance, I would start with a group of people who could swim.

Not discounting the effects of stress on human performance here. It has been shown to increase the efficiency in some, decrease it in others. The best way to minimize the negative effects of stress is to drill until the proper behaviors are ingrained.

I wonder what sorts of training our heroine had, or if it was sheer mother grizzly grit.

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 7:19 PM

My prayers will be with Mrs. Herman. I only wish that all people could protect themselves and family from these scum bags.

DDay on January 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Thank God she and the children are safe.

A heavier caliber probably would have dropped the ba$tard for good.

Zorro on January 6, 2013 at 7:30 PM

What’s rhe differences among .45 caliber bullets?

davidk on January 6, 2013 at 6:55 PM

That’s a perfect question for wikipedia. .45 bullets are heavy, fly at subsonic speeds and make a very large hole.

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 7:31 PM

My home defense weapon is a S&W 686 with a 6″ barrel; my CC weapon is a Ruger SP101 with a 2 1/2″ barrel. I keep three speedloaders filled with .357 JHP slugs with each one. I figure that if that many rounds isn’t enough to get me out of trouble, I’m in the wrong fight, whether I’m at home or out and about.

Moose Drool on January 6, 2013 at 7:34 PM

How was she able to defend herself with a mere revolver?

Pablo Honey on January 6, 2013 at 2:37 PM

I never thought I would want this but, where are the trolls?

Liam on January 6, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Del Dolemonte on January 6, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Here’s what I don’t get. In the time it takes to get her pistol, get her kids and hide, wouldn’t it have made more sense to get her phone, call 911

Rainsford on January 6, 2013 at 4:05 PM

The police station in rural Newtown CT is only 2.5 miles from Sandy Hook Elementary, but it took the cops 11 minutes to get there.

H

Del Dolemonte on January 6, 2013 at 7:55 PM

That’s not the point.

The point was that being good on the gun range didn’t translate into being able to hit something when it got real. Adrenalin is a heck of a drug.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 6:49 PM

You forgot to mention that no one shoots back at you at the range.

riddick on January 6, 2013 at 7:58 PM

You forgot to mention that no one shoots back at you at the range.

riddick on January 6, 2013 at 7:58 PM

That’ll flat rattle some folks

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 8:03 PM

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 7:31 PM

Not necessarily.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 8:15 PM

He said if Slater survives the night, doctors will try to operate in the morning to repair the damage

Bummer

SouthernGent on January 6, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Sorry for the previous self-quote on this subject. Stylus miscue.

Re: Range time vs realtime accuracy

Just a thought. If I wanted to determine if stress degraded swimming performance, I would start with a group of people who could swim.

Not discounting the effects of stress on human performance here. It has been shown to increase the efficiency in some, decrease it in others. The best way to minimize the negative effects of stress is to drill until they become ingrained. So while we might not rise to the occasion, we can at least default to our training.

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 8:23 PM

A liberal scratching his head, reading this story, mumbling…….

Doesn’t the intruder have any rights ?

FlaMurph on January 6, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Not necessarily.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Oh? My statements were offered as general in nature; which statement is in error?

I figure its a simple enough subject that even wiki can get it right, did they screw that up, too?

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 8:31 PM

A liberal scratching his head, reading this story, mumbling…….

Doesn’t the intruder have any rights ?

FlaMurph on January 6, 2013 at 8:27 PM

The only liberals who will ever read this story are those who venture here and into other similar blogs; the mainstream Democrat Media will never report this story because it doesn’t fit their Agenda.

Del Dolemonte on January 6, 2013 at 8:32 PM

BTW tonight’s new episode of “The Simpsons” was a hoot, so you folks out West should try and catch it.

“Homer Goes to Prep School” is the story of Homie falling in with a bunch of survivalists. One of the guest voices is Tom Waits!

Del Dolemonte on January 6, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Here’s what I don’t get. In the time it takes to get her pistol, get her kids and hide, wouldn’t it have made more sense to get her phone, call 911

Rainsford on January 6, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Pro choice except for almost every other single thing, right?

rogerb on January 6, 2013 at 8:36 PM

This story will be all over the alphabet networks…(snort) sometimes I crack myself up:)

Clink on January 6, 2013 at 7:14 PM

…and like Del D says…you never hear ANY of these stories! EVER!

KOOLAID2 on January 6, 2013 at 8:39 PM

This thread is a hoot.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 8:54 PM

A scary read: http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

Make sure you understand it is fiction. Maybe.

davidk on January 6, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Awesome read. I love the line, “Under rule .308″

Bulletchaser on January 6, 2013 at 9:16 PM

call 911

Rainsford on January 6, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Damn you’re stupid. You do realize that police do NOT have a legal obligation to protect you . They generally respond , write reports, and clean up messes. The dimness of some of our posters amazes.

CW on January 6, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Too bad she didn’t have my preferred home defender in that closet!
Winchester model 12 – 12 guage, sawed off to the legal limit due to a little error in a muddy filed sneaking up on a flock of mallards.
Holds seven shots and fires as fast as one can pump it. Hold the trigger down, firing pin stays out and shells load right into the pin and eject.
No surgery necessary after five of those, oh and after five, two rounds still left.

ConcealedKerry on January 6, 2013 at 9:25 PM

BEER SUMMIT!!!

Mom with smoking pistol and bad guy in traction with a feeding tube in the Rose Garden.

She acted foolishly.

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:40 PM

How was she able to defend herself with a mere revolver?

Pablo Honey on January 6, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Your kind won’t stop with magazine weapons. You liberals have an end game that includes revolvers and every other gas expansion projectile type device.

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:43 PM

ROCnPhilly on January 6, 2013 at 8:31 PM

All of them are usually; but not necessarily true, assuming you meant .45ACP.

But there are also .45 ACP loads that have lighter bullets than a moderate .357 load, and are supersonic. out of the muzzle. As to hole size, that is variable: Going in or coming out? Instantaneous, or after the elastic skin reduces entry wound size?.

There are quite a few .45 ACP rounds that are designed for self defense (or offense) which go fast and dump energy real fast.

Wikipedia can get you started on such knowledge, but is hardly an absolute authority on firearms related questions.

And that isn’t even beginning to talk about other .45 caliber handgun cartridges.

And Hot air isn’t really the best place to discuss such details.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 9:45 PM

A scary read: http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

Make sure you understand it is fiction. Maybe.

davidk on January 6, 2013 at 7:19 PM

.
Awesome read. I love the line, “Under rule .308″

Bulletchaser on January 6, 2013 at 9:16 PM

.
I haven’t checked out the link yet, but I still like the rule!

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 9:45 PM

ConcealedKerry on January 6, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Best choice of home def yet. Two #8′s, three 00, then two slugs. But a lady might not have the arm oomph to consistently slam fire it. Better just to pump and squeeze.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 9:46 PM

How was she able to defend herself with a mere revolver?

Pablo Honey on January 6, 2013 at 2:37 PM

You know what? Screw you for even equivocating what type of handgun she defended herself with. Just screw you.

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:46 PM

This thread is a hoot.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 8:54 PM

.
Glad we could entertain you.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Brava to this woman who protected herself and her children–anything any sane mother (or father) would attempt to do.

Mr. Herman is absolutely correct. His wife did the exact right thing. She and her children are alive today because of her bravery and natural human instincts.

I wonder–do liberal mothers/fathers have different instincts when confronted with someone who might do harm to themselves or their own children?

jersey taxpayer on January 6, 2013 at 9:50 PM

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:46 PM

I suspect there was sarcasm in there.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Best choice of home def yet. Two #8′s, three 00, then two slugs. But a lady might not have the arm oomph to consistently slam fire it. Better just to pump and squeeze.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 9:46 PM

There is one consideration though: your neighbors.
#00 and slugs could kill one of them. I took target practice on a wrecked antique truck once, and the penetrating power of the #00s was stunning. One shot: Balls punching through a very thick quarter panel – through the front of the bed, through the back of the cab, through the seat, through the solid-steel dash, and out the open hood, going God knows where.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 PM

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 9:47 PM

The old “What’s the best gun for self defense” thing. It’s one of those things that was a joke argument at our gun range. I haven’t heard it in a long time.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 PM

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:46 PM
I suspect there was sarcasm in there.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 9:51 PM

I suspect Pablo Honey was trying to say a revolver should be enough. It doesn’t get to pick what we pack.

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Wait – correction – on further thought, that was a slug.

But the #00s punched through everything and dented the dash.

Still easily enough to kill your neighbor on his couch.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:55 PM

I suspect Pablo Honey was trying to say a revolver should be enough. It doesn’t get to pick what we pack.

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Clint Eastwood made a revolver look like death.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:56 PM

With the 12-ga, I prefer the #4 shot for home defense, specifically to safeguard my neighbors. Light enough to get the spread and hit the target unless you’re blind; heavy enough to slow down the target for the kill shot with the second pull.

But that’s just me.

Your mileage may vary.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:59 PM

I wonder–do liberal mothers/fathers have different instincts when confronted with someone who might do harm to themselves or their own children?

jersey taxpayer on January 6, 2013 at 9:50 PM

silly me, of course–they abort.

jersey taxpayer on January 6, 2013 at 9:59 PM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Actually that’s the logic for the load out. Bird shot at the front, not necessarily fatal, but debilitating and not requiring aim. The penetration of the double is high enough to go through something an invader would hide behind (say a couch or door) and then do damage, but a lot less than a hand gun of similar caliber (38 or 9mm). Slugs at the end of the magazine if you were still in danger.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Some may prefer a #2. Much heavier in a populated area, and you have to slow down to give what’s behind you target more consideration – just enough hesitation for the bad guy to get you.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Actually that’s the logic for the load out. Bird shot at the front, not necessarily fatal, but debilitating and not requiring aim. The penetration of the double is high enough to go through something an invader would hide behind (say a couch or door) and then do damage, but a lot less than a hand gun of similar caliber (38 or 9mm). Slugs at the end of the magazine if you were still in danger.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Oh, I fully agree. But you may be underestimating the penetrating power of the double aught.

I was shocked at how much penetration it gave me on 40-year old Detroit steel.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:02 PM

hawkdriver on January 6, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Hm. I hadn’t read it that way, but it’s probably closer now that I look at it again.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Bottom line, I guess, is that if you’re in an apartment, #00 may kill your neighbor.

If you’re not, it may not.

Each situation varies. But the graduated loadout is solid practice, for sure.

I use it when camping in bear country: #4s to start – finish with slugs.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:05 PM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Double was chosen only because of availability. We don’t have a lot of selection in some of our Kalifornia sporting goods stores. If you roll your own then yes, there are better combos.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Here’s what I don’t get. In the time it takes to get her pistol, get her kids and hide, wouldn’t it have made more sense to get her phone, call 911

Rainsford on January 6, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Pro choice except for almost every other single thing, right?

rogerb on January 6, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Perhaps her phone was downstairs. Perhaps she cared more about
defending and protecting her family than letting some 911 operator
quiz her about the particulars as they occurred. Instead, she
got her two 9 year olds to relative safety while she checked her
load. Shoot first and do not ask any questions.

Also, in case you didn’t read about it, it took the police approximately 20 minutes to respond to
Sandyhook. The police in general do not have a good average response time to these type of events. Usually arrive on the scene after everyone is dead. Not their fault, just that the
speed of the events is faster than their speed to the scene for
various reasons – distance to site for instance.

You should know that you are more than likely on your own when
it comes to these situations.

Amjean on January 6, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Slugs take a lot of practice. The barrel kicks up enough that you have to aim pretty dang low – like at the perp’s feet. I used to practice in the desert with an old tall, skinny propane canister, until I could hit it from 30 feet. Usually took about 3-5 shots to range it in, then I’d shoot 5 more to develop muscle memory. I’m so out of practice with slugs… time to re-up.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Double was chosen only because of availability. We don’t have a lot of selection in some of our Kalifornia sporting goods stores. If you roll your own then yes, there are better combos.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Sometime go exploring in the Mojave, etc., until you find an old car. Check out the #00 penetration. You may want to go with #2, depending on how close your neighbors are…

But you and I are thinking alike!

My key point is that I don’t want to have to worry about a neighbor in an apartment/nearby-house scenario – I want to be able to fire away in self-defense without thinking. Me personally, I’d shy away from the #00s for that reason…. though definitely the perp isn’t walking away from a #00 hit – no way, no how.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Here’s what I don’t get. In the time it takes to get her pistol, get her kids and hide, wouldn’t it have made more sense to get her phone, call 911

Rainsford on January 6, 2013 at 4:05 PM

She called her husband who then called 911 while she tried to hide.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Any of you ladies trying a slug load in your shotgun – roll up a towel to put between the stock and your shoulder during practice – and fer chrissakes don’t put your cheek on the stock!! Fair warning.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:12 PM

Too bad she didn’t have my preferred home defender in that closet!
Winchester model 12 – 12 guage, sawed off to the legal limit due to a little error in a muddy filed sneaking up on a flock of mallards.
Holds seven shots and fires as fast as one can pump it. Hold the trigger down, firing pin stays out and shells load right into the pin and eject.
No surgery necessary after five of those, oh and after five, two rounds still left.

ConcealedKerry
on January 6, 2013 at 9:25 PM

.
You did WHAT to a Win M12 ? ! ? ! ? !
.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
.
Ok, I’m done ….. but I ain’t never gonna recover . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : (

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:13 PM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Agree on the practice part. But the only reason to get to the slugs is that you have someone resisting from behind cover in your house. If you’ve gotten through 5 rounds of 12 gauge and they’re still giving you grief you probably need them. and you better be in practice/shape to handle them.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Agree on the practice part. But the only reason to get to the slugs is that you have someone resisting from behind cover in your house. If you’ve gotten through 5 rounds of 12 gauge and they’re still giving you grief you probably need them. and you better be in practice/shape to handle them.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Let me clarify – yes, I DO have 2 slugs at the end of my home-defense load… but hope to God not to have to use them. They would go through an apartment wall or into a neighboring house like butter. So they are the desperation, life-saving final resort.

I hope I never get in a situation where the #4s won’t do the job, because that means I have gotten trapped in an ugly firefight with a tenacious opponent.

The best self-defense is the sound of the rack sliding.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:17 PM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:10 PM

agreed.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:17 PM

Cane…you in Kali?

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:18 PM

In Case anyone missed this one!

************UnCivilty Alert ************

Iowa Paper Publishes Radical Anti-Gun Column: If People Refused to Give Up Their Guns, ‘Prying’ Them ‘From Their Cold, Dead Hands’ Works for Me
•Posted on January 2, 2013 at 6:00pm by
*****************************************

In an opinion column published in the Des Moines Register on Dec. 29, columnist Donald Kaul is uncensored in his disdain for the Second Amendment and anyone who values their right to bear arms. In his column, he calls for a full repeal of the Second Amendment, advocates for violence against Republican leaders “until they see the light on gun control” and declares the National Rifle Association a terrorist organization.

The piece, titled “Kaul: Nation needs a new agenda on guns,” seems to have been inspired in part by the tragic shooting in Newtown, Conn. where shooter Adam Lanza opened fire at Sandy Hook Elementary School, killing 20 children and six adults. Lanza also killed his mother before he began his shooting spree at the school.

“I would tie Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, our esteemed Republican leaders, to the back of a Chevy pickup truck and drag them around a parking lot until they saw the light on gun control,” Kaul wrote. “And if that didn’t work, I’d adopt radical measures.”

Kaul would also like to make it illegal to even be a member of the NRA, similar to the way it was illegal to join the Communist party in the past.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/iowa-paper-publishes-radical-anti-gun-column-if-people-refused-to-give-up-their-guns-prying-them-from-their-cold-dead-hands-works-for-me/
==============================================

Kaul: Nation needs a new agenda on guns
***************************************

This time, the debate has to be about more than not offending the NRA’s sensibilities.
2:59 PM, Dec 29, 2012
*********************

Donald Kaul suffered a heart attack back in July and discontinued writing his weekly column for the opinion website OtherWords.org. Depending upon how you count, that was Kaul’s second or third retirement. Today, Kaul announces that he’s ba-a-a-ck. This time, he’s only promising to write when events move him and not to be pinned down by a weekly column. — Opinion Editor

I’m glad I retired five months ago.

Think of it: I was spared writing about the presidential election, an event so vacuous it made reality TV seem interesting. If there was any serious discussion of an important national issue — global warming, obesity, transportation policy, the morality of drone attacks on civilian populations, the environmental consequences of fracking, existential implications of the designated hitter — I missed it.

nstead, we got a campaign of misrepresentations, exaggerations and outright lies. The Republicans were by far the worst offenders, but President Barack Obama didn’t cover himself in glory either.

I was happy with the result of the presidential election, but I didn’t regret not covering it. And I was entirely content to go on not writing about things. (If I could make a living at that, life would be perfect.)

But then Newtown happened. A misanthropic young man who never seemed particularly violent killed his mother then broke into an elementary school and massacred little kids, teachers and the principal.

And the very air changed. The holiday season suddenly turned somber. You looked at the small children around you differently, as fragile, precious gifts to be cherished and, above all, protected.

Obama struck that note in his moving speech at the memorial service. Speaking for us all, he said: “We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change.”

Nice words, but somehow not enough. Not nearly enough.

That’s when I figured I should write a column about it. During my 50-year career, every time some demented soul would take a semiautomatic gun and clean out a post office, a school or a picnic, I’d get up on my soap box and let loose with a withering diatribe about guns, the National Rifle Association and weak-kneed politicians. Did it about 75 times, give or take.

And in every case the main effect was a spike in gun sales.

Still, I thought I’d give it one more shot … er, chance.

Obama’s speech was fine as far as it went, but it didn’t go very far. Neither have any of the other responses I’ve heard.

California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said she was going to introduce a bill to ban the sale and importation of assault weapons. Great, but the bill wouldn’t apply to weapons already out there, and in defining illegal weapons, it listed more than 900 exceptions.

Nine hundred!

The thing missing from the debate so far is anger — anger that we live in a society where something like the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre can happen and our main concern is not offending the NRA’s sensibilities.

That’s obscene. Here, then, is my “madder-than-hell-and-I’m-not-going-to-take-it-anymore” program for ending gun violence in America:

• Repeal the Second Amendment, the part about guns anyway. It’s badly written, confusing and more trouble than it’s worth. It offers an absolute right to gun ownership, but it puts it in the context of the need for a “well-regulated militia.” We don’t make our militia bring their own guns to battles. And surely the Founders couldn’t have envisioned weapons like those used in the Newtown shooting when they guaranteed gun rights. Owning a gun should be a privilege, not a right.

• Declare the NRA a terrorist organization and make membership illegal. Hey! We did it to the Communist Party, and the NRA has led to the deaths of more of us than American Commies ever did. (I would also raze the organization’s headquarters, clear the rubble and salt the earth, but that’s optional.) Make ownership of unlicensed assault rifles a felony. If some people refused to give up their guns, that “prying the guns from their cold, dead hands” thing works for me.

• Then I would tie Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, our esteemed Republican leaders, to the back of a Chevy pickup truck and drag them around a parking lot until they saw the light on gun control.

And if that didn’t work, I’d adopt radical measures. None of that is going to happen, of course. But I’ll bet gun sales will rise.
================================================================

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121230/OPINION01/312300033/Kaul-Nation-needs-new-agenda-guns?nclick_check=1

canopfor on January 4, 2013 at 3:47 AM

canopfor on January 6, 2013 at 10:22 PM

The best gun-control is never getting in the situation.

But… the nightmare scenario… a home break-in, especially with an inexperienced owner – a wife – a child – etc….. nothing but nothing beats a short-barreled 12-gauge shotgun.

Best kept near the bed, so as to be handy in the dark. Many folks keep a pistol near the bed. The problem is that in the dark it’s 10x harder to hit an intruder with a pistol. The short-barreled shotgun acts like a TV remote: Point it anywhere near the target, and you have a good chance of at least a partial hit – enough to re-rack and aim better.

The preceding is predicated that you would hear someone breaking in.. have a bit of warning.

For those in a high-crime area, probably both would be safest.

My GF lives in a Section 8 area… lots of shady characters around (she’s not Section 8!). She has a snub .38 Special on her nightstand, and also in her purse occasionally. For a very attractive lady living alone, who also has the sometimes dangerous trait of being friendly to everyone, this is critical self-defense. I wish she would get a short-barrel 12-gauge

This may sound extreme, but once we worked together and I had to fire an employee who was really off… and was an avowed gun nut who had been bitterly complaining about his previous firings. She stood near me with one hand in her purse.

It was a good feeling.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:26 PM

Cane…you in Kali?

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:18 PM

No, but used to travel around the country a lot more, and did my share of desert practice.

A couple times I went on camping trips with liberal musician friends. It used to freak them out that I would bring tools with which to practice.

I finally convinced some of the liberal girlfriends to try their hand… some of the male musicians would whine about how it was scary and I was a redneck.

The scary part was how accurate some of these women were on their first pull… usually better than the men!

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:29 PM

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121230/OPINION01/312300033/Kaul-Nation-needs-new-agenda-guns?nclick_check=1

canopfor on January 4, 2013 at 3:47 AM

canopfor on January 6, 2013 at 10:22 PM

.
.
Civil War FIRST.
.
Thanks for posting that, Canap’.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:30 PM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:26 PM

Glad she’s got your back. that’s the best you can hope for.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:31 PM

I have a .45 loaded with me either CCW or in the night stand. But in the house, that weapon has only one purpose…to fight my way to the gun safe to get to my carbines. The gun safe is in the safe room which I can cover the stairwell coming up which gives good concealment and creates a nice funnel kill zone. They can run around all they want downstairs, everything is replaceable, and the cops would already be on their way. But come up the stairs to my family and it get serious quickly. Every family should have a plan for when it turns soft and brown and hits the fan.

Mo_mac on January 6, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Best use of firearms ever in the desert:

Liberal musician pacifist complaining he can’t sleep because of some big crickets in a nearby tree.

One sweep with the 12-gauge, and a good night’s sleep.

/yeah, redneck, I know, though I’m not one!

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:32 PM

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121230/OPINION01/312300033/Kaul-Nation-needs-new-agenda-guns?nclick_check=1

canopfor on January 6, 2013 at 10:22 PM

That’s who they are when you peel the mask off.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM

Glad she’s got your back. that’s the best you can hope for.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:31 PM

It was a damn good feeling. She’s so pretty that no one would see it coming.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:34 PM

I have a .45 loaded with me either CCW or in the night stand. But in the house, that weapon has only one purpose…to fight my way to the gun safe to get to my carbines. The gun safe is in the safe room which I can cover the stairwell coming up which gives good concealment and creates a nice funnel kill zone. They can run around all they want downstairs, everything is replaceable, and the cops would already be on their way. But come up the stairs to my family and it get serious quickly. Every family should have a plan for when it turns soft and brown and hits the fan.

Mo_mac on January 6, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Excellent. The funnel is key. Let us all hope that we never have anyone try to get into our castles, because it sucks all the way around.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:36 PM

I don’t get it. The news says she shot him with a .38 revolver at point-blank, hitting him in the head and neck with five shots. And he got in his car and drove away? And he can still talk?

WTH?

Jaibones on January 6, 2013 at 10:36 PM

I don’t get it. The news says she shot him with a .38 revolver at point-blank, hitting him in the head and neck with five shots. And he got in his car and drove away? And he can still talk?

WTH?

Jaibones on January 6, 2013 at 10:36 PM

She probably used full-metal-jacket (FMJ) rounds. Not the best self-defense round – they ounch nice neat holes, but don’t disrupt the furniture enough before exiting.

OR – it was an old S&W .38, NOT a .38 Special. I keep seeing folks throw around “.38,” but probably meaning “Special.” The old .38 round is significantly weaker. Doesn’t even fit the .38 Special.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:39 PM

Cane…you in Kali?

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:18 PM

.
No, but used to travel around the country a lot more, and did my share of desert practice.

A couple times I went on camping trips with liberal musician friends. It used to freak them out that I would bring tools with which to practice.

I finally convinced some of the liberal girlfriends to try their hand… some of the male musicians would whine about how it was scary and I was a redneck.

The scary part was how accurate some of these women were on their first pull… usually better than the men!

cane_loader
on January 6, 2013 at 10:29 PM

.
That’s a great story. . : )

Also, you’re not the first person I’ve heard recount an experience with guns, and young people who’d not had any experience with them before.
I was told the same thing about the girls in the group doing better with their first shots.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Also, if she used FMJ and so didn’t tear out a major artery or organ, the perp’s adrenalin got him as far as he got.. until he crashed into the wooded area.

You shoot a rabbit or deer or squirrel and sometimes it will run on adrenalin, too.

Heck – shoot a pheasant with a head shot and it can run around for awhile too

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:41 PM

I don’t get it. The news says she shot him with a .38 revolver at point-blank, hitting him in the head and neck with five shots. And he got in his car and drove away? And he can still talk?

WTH?

Jaibones on January 6, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Bullets don’t have the reliable effects that we often see in the movies. A lot will depend on what kind of ammunition she was using, where he was hit, how big he was, was he on drugs, and simple chance.

Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record: forensic expert

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Detroiter Rachelle Guyton said she called 911 around 6:30 a.m. Saturday to report that her 2003 Chrysler Town & Country minivan had been stolen from an apartment building in Palmer Park — but it wasn’t the van she was worried about.

“I have a gun under my car seat, and when I called the police department to explain this to them and try to have them help… they didn’t give me any attention. They told me I had to wait until 8 o’clock to call back. What if someone gets shot with this? What if a child gets this in his hand? I’m responsible, and I just can’t have that on my conscience,” Guyton told WWJ’s Terri Lee.

Yeh call 911.
/

CW on January 6, 2013 at 10:42 PM

I was told the same thing about the girls in the group doing better with their first shots.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:41 PM

I don’t know if there have been studies, but I would bet that they would find that women are intrinsically better shots.

I’ve seen it time and again.

Maybe they don’t hold the gun sideways or something….

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Glad she’s got your back. that’s the best you can hope for.

Fighton03 on January 6, 2013 at 10:31 PM

.
It was a damn good feeling. She’s so pretty that no one would see it coming.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:34 PM

.
That reminds me, wasn’t actress Victoria Principle one of the best handgunners in competition shooting, some while back?

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:44 PM

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121230/OPINION01/312300033/Kaul-Nation-needs-new-agenda-guns?nclick_check=1

canopfor on January 6, 2013 at 10:22 PM

That’s who they are when you peel the mask off.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM

sharrukin:Affrimitive,and the Guy is a Loon,er,”Certifiable Nuts”!:)

canopfor on January 6, 2013 at 10:45 PM

Temporarily good news today from here in The People’s Republic of Illinois:

SPRINGFIELD — With time running short in the lame-duck session, state lawmakers on Sunday dropped hot-button issues dealing with guns and marijuana but kept alive hopes of reforming pensions and giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants.

The slimmed-down agenda unfolded rapidly as the House, returning to the Capitol for the first time in a month, pulled an assault weapons ban from consideration and the sponsor of legislation to allow Illinoisans to use marijuana for medical purposes said the chances of quick passage is unlikely.

The “assault” weapons ban they were trying to pass is insane:

-All semi-automatic firearms would be either banned outright, or be so severely taxed and restricted that ownership would be impractical. We expected to see attempts to ban or regulate AR and AK type firearms, but what we saw in Cullerton’s proposal carried that to an extreme. Cullerton’s gun ban would extend to all semiautomatic rifles, pistols and shotguns. Additionally, many pump action rifles and shotguns would be banned as well. This ban would include such classics as the 1911 and the M1 Garand. Of course, all Glocks, Sig-Sauers, and other popular pistols would be banned as well. Estimates are that about 50% of rifles and 80% of handguns lawfully-owned by Illinois citizens would be subject to ban and confiscation under the Cullerton gun ban.

-The Illinois State Police would be given full control over the design and operation of commercial gun ranges in the state. That control would extend from the design of the bullet backstops to qualifications of range employees and even to the color of the paint on the walls of the men’s room. The State Police would determine the hours of operation, what types and calibers of firearms could be discharged at the range, and even a minimum number of square feet. Every range customer would have to undergo a background check and each customer’s visit would be logged by the range operator. Any Illinois law enforcement agency could conduct unannounced and warrantless inspections and searches of ranges at any time. Those searches and inspections would extend to range customers and their property. That means that the Chicago Police Department would have the authority to raid a range in Peoria and roust the customers of that range. The bottom line is, this range regulation proposal has the sole objective of running commercial shooting ranges out of business. We had never seen anything like this before, but the intent was clear.

visions on January 6, 2013 at 10:45 PM

The most liberal of the musicians’ girlfriends hit a beer can from 50 feet with her first pistol shot. Then she hit it again on the ground with her second shot.

She still didn’t want to buy a gun. A year or so later she admirably ran to assist an old lady who was being assaulted at a Taco Bell in Pasadena. The teenage Hispanic girls who were robbing the old lady beat both of them badly and robbed them. The girls were caught after later coming back to the Taco Bell drivethrough with my friend’s debit card. I have lost touch, and do not know if she bought a gun after that.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:47 PM

Bullets don’t have the reliable effects that we often see in the movies. A lot will depend on what kind of ammunition she was using, where he was hit, how big he was, was he on drugs, and simple chance.

Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record: forensic expert

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Yep. It ain’t always like the movies. But I bet those 21 rounds weren’t .45 caliber, either.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM

I’ve seen it time and again.

Maybe they don’t hold the gun sideways or something….

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:42 PM

.
Years ago when I first saw it done in movies, I thought that the “sideways gun hold” was the most rediculous, stupid-assed thing I’d ever seen.
It’s almost a dead give-away how little actual gun experience the person IDIOT holding it that way, really has.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:50 PM

That’s who they are when you peel the mask off.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM

Yep.

They want to drag people behind trucks, just like George W. Bush did.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Wow!
So much interesting and almost accurate information on this page.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Years ago when I first saw it done in movies, I thought that the “sideways gun hold” was the most rediculous, stupid-assed thing I’d ever seen.
It’s almost a dead give-away how little actual gun experience the person IDIOT holding it that way, really has.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:50 PM

Having the barrel jump so that it moves perpendicular to the long dimension of the target is not the brightest technique. Of course, that’s assuming the shooter understands physics and geometry.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:52 PM

Now… if your target is lying down, I might reconsider the sideways grip ;-)

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:53 PM

Wow!
So much interesting and almost accurate information on this page.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Please do correct the inaccuracies…. equal opportunity here to give opinions :)

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:54 PM

Bullets don’t have the reliable effects that we often see in the movies. A lot will depend on what kind of ammunition she was using, where he was hit, how big he was, was he on drugs, and simple chance.

Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record: forensic expert

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Yep. It ain’t always like the movies. But I bet those 21 rounds weren’t .45 caliber, either.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM

Probably not, however…

http://saf.ek.la/man-shot-with-sandf-rifle-minister-held-liable-a47423626

a Bronkhorstspruit man who was shot nine times in a robbery with a SANDF-issued R4 rifle

Von Beneke was wounded in the head, his pelvis was shattered and several of his vital organs were hit. His advocate told the court that it was a miracle that he survived.

The R4 is similar to an Israeli Galil and fires .223 ammunition which is a lot more powerful than a .45.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:57 PM

The “assault” weapons ban they were trying to pass is insane:

visions on January 6, 2013 at 10:45 PM

.
Not really . . . . . it’s doing exactly what they want it to, IF enacted into law.
.
All of this is about disabling the U.S., so it’s citizens can be dragged against their will into this.

Nothing more.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Haven’t heard — but has Obama announced that this perp is another thug who would have looked like his son, if he had one?

Narniaman on January 6, 2013 at 10:59 PM

Wow!
So much interesting and almost accurate information on this page.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 10:51 PM

.
That’s why you’re here.

To set the inaccuracies STRAIGHT.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2013 at 11:00 PM

The R4 is similar to an Israeli Galil and fires .223 ammunition which is a lot more powerful than a .45.

sharrukin on January 6, 2013 at 10:57 PM

Which is why I still consider the 12-gauge shotgun the ultimate home-defense weapon. With the spread, the perp usually is in heap big trouble.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 11:02 PM

There are so many not quite accurate statements… But not quite significant enough to get into an argument over.
Besides, I need to get back to the reloading bench. Finding the best loads for various applications for my new handgun wildcat cartridge is a tricky and time consuming.

But here is just one: You CAN fire the older .38 Short and .38 Long Colt ammo in a .38 Special / .357 Mag.

Cant imagine why anyone would except in extremis, but they fit and will go about where you point them.

LegendHasIt on January 6, 2013 at 11:03 PM

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