Hobby Lobby CEO open letter: “Honoring God is more important than turning a profit”

posted at 1:01 pm on January 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Normally I’d be inclined to run something like this on a Sunday, when I like to explore more faith-based topics.  However, today is Hobby Lobby Appreciation Day, where consumers who support the Christian ownership’s stand against the HHS mandate that attempts to impose a highly restrictive definition of religious expression can put their money where their mouths are.  Since I don’t really have a hobby at the moment, I’ll instead offer a passage from the open letter written by Hobby Lobby CEO David Green, who explains why he’s decided to spend a lot of money and risk even more to fight the HHS regulation that would force him to act against his religious principles.

We’re Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I’ve always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God’s laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that’s what we’ve tried to do. We close early so our employees can see their families at night. We keep our stores closed on Sundays, one of the week’s biggest shopping days, so that our workers and their families can enjoy a day of rest. We believe that it is by God’s grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. We’ve not only added jobs in a weak economy, we’ve raised wages for the past four years in a row. Our full-time employees start at 80% above minimum wage.

But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don’t pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don’t cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one. If we refuse to comply, we could face $1.3 million PER DAY in government fines.

Our government threatens to fine job creators in a bad economy. Our government threatens to fine a company that’s raised wages four years running. Our government threatens to fine a family for running its business according to its beliefs. It’s not right. I know people will say we ought to follow the rules; that it’s the same for everybody. But that’s not true. The government has exempted thousands of companies from this mandate, for reasons of convenience or cost. But it won’t exempt them for reasons of religious belief.

So, Hobby Lobby – and my family – are forced to make a choice. With great reluctance, we filed a lawsuit today, represented by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, asking a federal court to stop this mandate before it hurts our business. We don’t like to go running into court, but we no longer have a choice. We believe people are more important than the bottom line and that honoring God is more important than turning a profit.

It’s worth pointing out that the mandate doesn’t exempt actual religious organizations either, such as Catholic charities, Presbyterian hospitals, Lutheran schools, and so on.  Why?  That’s the crux of the issue: the Obama administration is attempting to redefine religious expression to only those activities which take place within the four walls of a place of worship, or those activities restricted only to those of a single faith.  That means that Catholic hospitals would qualify only if they refused to treat and employ any non-Catholics, for instance.  Can you imagine those lawsuits?

The mandate for free birth control, which is already cheap and readily available for anyone who wants it (and has federal subsidies for Medicaid recipients already in place through Title X), is just a Trojan horse in an attack on religious liberty — and even more, for freedom of choice.  If businesses want to offer “free” birth control (which will get funded by premium hikes), they can already do so; no one is stopping them.  Same for schools, hospitals, and private citizens who want to donate money to family-planning clinics on their own.  Barack Obama and Kathleen Sebelius want to strip that choice from Americans and force everyone to subsidize the procreative choices of everyone else, even those tens of millions whose religious beliefs have heretofore never had to be part of public policy.  That’s the invasion of privacy, and it’s people like David Green who are being exploited.

Update: Added a bit to the second-to-last paragraph, and also wanted to include Hobby Lobby’s online shopping website link.  You can support the company from the comfort of your own home.


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Only peripherally. The “freedom” you relish is the effect; you seem oblivious to its cause.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Oh. Do you mean that freedom coming from God jazz?

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 8:52 AM

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 8:37 AM

Most clearly seen in the modern Congregationalist congregations. If I’m not mistaken, they started out as The Puritans, the most devout segment of Christianity at the time, but have now degenerated into Isaiah 34:14.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 8:54 AM

Oh. Do you mean that freedom coming from God jazz?

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 8:52 AM

The case of Hobby Lobby is a microcosm of the causes and effects of our decline in all areas of our collective life.

The lesson is there for anyone who has eyes to see and ears to hear.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:03 AM

I hope Mr. Green has a plan B, cuz once a judge somewhere has ruled against him, it’s really hard to get one to agree with him. It’s still amazing that the libs want to fund abortions and preventions when they seem to like all the worker bees and grabbing more in taxes from them to fund whatever is the feel good legislation of the day. If they are so for abortions why are they so against guns when they can accomplish the same thing, reducing the population. Sorry if that sounds cold but then we are talking lib policy here.

Kissmygrits on January 6, 2013 at 9:04 AM

Most clearly seen in the modern Congregationalist congregations. If I’m not mistaken, they started out as The Puritans, the most devout segment of Christianity at the time, but have now degenerated into Isaiah 34:14.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 8:54 AM

I think that at some point, all people, or groups of people, who want to control others, degenerate from standing on principles to persuade others to their view, to using politics and legislation to force others to comply to their standards of behavior.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 9:05 AM

SteveMG on January 5, 2013 at 1:38 PM

It seems to me that if “honoring God” is mentioned in the original company mission statements, then they should be exempt… period. They decided at the beginning of incorporation that forming the company itself is an act of religious expression.

You and the word-twister you quoted seem to be lacking in common-sense.

dominigan on January 6, 2013 at 9:11 AM

JC Penny was the major dept store that used to close on Sunday. Mr. Penny even created a retirement town for his employees called Penny Farms in Florida. It’s still there but not associated with Penny’s anymore (I think).
If HHS were to give HL a waiver based on religious objections, then they would have to give one to all who asked for a waiver for the same reason. That number would be enormous which would further weaken the plan to take over all our health care insurance.

Kissmygrits on January 6, 2013 at 9:12 AM

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under. – Ronald Reagan

My take.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 9:13 AM

SteveMG on January 5, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Here is their company mission statement

Statement of Purpose

In order to effectively serve our owners, employees, and customers the Board of Directors is committed to:

Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with Biblical principles.

Offering our customers an exceptional selection and value.

Serving our employees and their families by establishing a work environment and company policies that build character, strengthen individuals, and nurture families.

Providing a return on the owners’ investment, sharing the Lord’s blessings with our employees, and investing in our community.

We believe that it is by God’s grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured. He has been faithful in the past, and we trust Him for our future.

You should take a look at all the Christian Ministry projects they participate in. (Imagine that, a corporation practicing religion…)

I think it’s pretty clear that the formation of the company itself was an act of religious expression…

dominigan on January 6, 2013 at 9:17 AM

On the one side will be the destroyed enemy of the Lord and the Constitution, on the other, their friends who will shout at the tyrant as they destroy his despotic rule, “It is for the Founding Fathers!”, “It is for the Founding Fathers!, and “Deus vult! Deus vult! Deus vult!

RasThavas on January 5, 2013 at 7:09 PM

I would rather hear them saying this:

“Hacher la tête !”

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:17 AM

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 9:05 AM

But that just addresses the decline in the political realm. We are experiencing as individuals AND as a society and culture, decline in ALL areas; the Arts and Entertainment, our educational models, our economics, our scientific achievments, you name it.

There isn’t one area of our collective life that we can really say is experiencing progress rather than decline.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:20 AM

The case of Hobby Lobby is a microcosm of the causes and effects of our decline in all areas of our collective life.

The lesson is there for anyone who has eyes to see and ears to hear.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:03 AM

So it’s a microcosm of the bigger picture. What makes you think that’s so profound? Have you ever heard “all is one”? It’s a pretty old idea.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:21 AM

Have you ever heard “all is one”? It’s a pretty old idea.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:21 AM

“all is one”?

You think THAT’S the lesson of Hobby Lobby!? Collectivism!?

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:29 AM

our scientific achievments, you name it.

There isn’t one area of our collective life that we can really say is experiencing progress rather than decline.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:20 AM

What? Do you keep up with news from space? We’ve got rovers on mars doing scientific experiments. We’ve discovered hundreds of exoplanets. The Hubble telescope has shown us things we would not have dreamed of 75 years ago.

Here on earth they just photographed DNA. The tech world is advancing so rapidly I don’t know how anyone can keep up with it.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:30 AM

You think THAT’S the lesson of Hobby Lobby!? Collectivism!?

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Are you just pretending you’ve never heard of that idea? It is not about modern day politics. You may have heard of a guy called Buddah…

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:32 AM

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:32 AM

Wow. You’ve now spent two days fighting against a God whom you claim not to believe in, nor care about, just like some idiot poster named mazer9 did about a week ago.

Hmmm.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 9:35 AM

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:30 AM

” The tech world is advancing so rapidly I don’t know how anyone can keep up with it.”

It is almost universally acknowledged that the advances we are experiencing technologically have not done much at all to ennoble us as individuals but, instead, is calling into question just what it means to even BE human.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:37 AM

Are you just pretending you’ve never heard of that idea? It is not about modern day politics. You may have heard of a guy called Buddah…

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:32 AM

And you might have heard of a guy called Solomon?

“[10] My son, if sinners entice you,
do not consent.
[11] If they say, “Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood,
let us wantonly ambush the innocent;
[12] like Sheol let us swallow them alive
and whole, like those who go down to the Pit;
[13] we shall find all precious goods,
we shall fill our houses with spoil;
[14] throw in your lot among us,
we will all have one purse”

[15] my son, do not walk in the way with them,
hold back your foot from their paths
;

Proverbs 1:10-15

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:39 AM

Wow. You’ve now spent two days fighting against a God whom you claim not to believe in, nor care about, just like some idiot poster named mazer9 did about a week ago.

Hmmm.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 9:35 AM

You should get out more. You remember a poster from a week ago? Your mom called. She wants her basement back.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:41 AM

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:39 AM

So that translates to, let’s kill the “other” and take their stuff. That sure sounds like an Abrahamic religion. I guess it’s no mystery where Mohammed got his inspiration.

I hope Hobby Lobby doesn’t use that idea in their business model.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:47 AM

So that translates to, let’s kill the “other” and take their stuff. That sure sounds like an Abrahamic religion. I guess it’s no mystery where Mohammed got his inspiration.

I hope Hobby Lobby doesn’t use that idea in their business model.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:47 AM

If I recall correctly, that was one of the takeaways I was told by my college professor to gain from studying Nietzsche.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:49 AM

But that just addresses the decline in the political realm. We are experiencing as individuals AND as a society and culture, decline in ALL areas; the Arts and Entertainment, our educational models, our economics, our scientific achievments, you name it.

There isn’t one area of our collective life that we can really say is experiencing progress rather than decline.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:20 AM

I agree with that. My comment was pointing to how many different things that shape the direction of public thought and values, as you pointed out,..arts, entertainment, education, economics etc, have taken to politics and the potential to use politics, via force of law as opposed to reason and persuasion, to achieve their goals.

The one area I disagree with is that everything is going bad. I actually see the potential of people waking up to the importance of thinking things thru before they validate something into their world view.
Sometimes things have to get bad before someone realizes that it’s time to reevaluate things.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM

It’s funny how over time that sometimes you take away only a bare kernel – ofttimes warped, of what you are studying.

Mine from Nietzsche:

If you are hiking alone on a lonely path in the mountains and come across another man, kill him – that way there’s no chance he can kill you, if he is so inclined.

I’m sure those who have studied more than I would differ, but that was the professor-supported takeaway.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Um…no. Read it again.

This time, slowly.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 AM

You should get out more. You remember a poster from a week ago? Your mom called. She wants her basement back.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:41 AM

Hello, mazer9. Oh, and I’m a 54 yr old grandfather and a Marketing VP.

And, no. I don’t want a Slurpee.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 AM

Hello, mazer9. Oh, and I’m a 54 yr old grandfather and a Marketing VP.

And, no. I don’t want a Slurpee.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 AM

A 54 year old living in your mom’s basement? And you admit to that?

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:56 AM

The one area I disagree with is that everything is going bad…

Sometimes things have to get bad before someone realizes that it’s time to reevaluate things.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Well, we have a case study of that right here and now in this thread, don’t we?

Let’s see if your optimism holds true. Personally, I am not so confident as you seem to be. Perhaps in the case of a few individuals waking up, but collectively? I don’t see it.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:57 AM

So it’s a microcosm of the bigger picture. What makes you think that’s so profound? Have you ever heard “all is one”? It’s a pretty old idea.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:21 AM

The hippie-esque, pop psychology idea of macrocosm/microcosm was applied to fixed concepts like “the universe in a drop of water” garbage.
The use of ‘microcosm’ in the context of changing ideas is different than that.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 9:57 AM

she bear…

tom daschle concerned on January 6, 2013 at 9:58 AM

Um…no. Read it again.

This time, slowly.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:53 AM

You’re right. I missed it. It’s saying don’t go with people who say let’s kill the “other” and take their stuff. I hope you didn’t need a book to tell you that is wrong.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 10:02 AM

A 54 year old living in your mom’s basement? And you admit to that?
Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:56 AM

Oh, mazer. You’re just a laugh riot. Hold your hand up next time you try to be funny….and we’ll laaaugh.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 10:07 AM

I hope Hobby Lobby doesn’t use that idea in their business model.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:47 AM

The origin and practice of Hobby Lobby’s business model is somehow unclear?

A sleazy imputation masking as erudition.

rrpjr on January 6, 2013 at 10:07 AM

You’re right. I missed it. It’s saying don’t go with people who say let’s kill the “other” and take their stuff. I hope you didn’t need a book to tell you that is wrong.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 10:02 AM

I hope you didn’t need a fat old Asian guy to tell you anything either.

But you really are dancing around the point, aren’t you? What’s the matter? Afraid to deal with the obvious implications?

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Perhaps in the case of a few individuals waking up, but collectively? I don’t see it.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 9:57 AM

Individuals wake up slowly when individual bad things have negative consequences to their lives.

What we have going on now is the precipice of bad things happening to the majority of people.
People will wake up..its just a matter of if they will wake up in time to stop the final destruction of the foundations of the Republic and the economic structure.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 AM

..its just a matter of if they will wake up in time to stop the final destruction of the foundations of the Republic and the economic structure.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Well, I don’t want to be an eeyore but, in my opinion, the foundations were destroyed a long time ago. We’ve just been living large on the capital built up on those foundations but it is running out.

My fear is that, even though people are aware that something is wrong…they’re waking up to THAT…they have no mechanism for finding the way back to where we went wrong.

I try to talk to young people today and am caught up short by the awareness of the amount of information that they have to first UNLEARN before they can be brought up to speed on the things that really ARE.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM

But you really are dancing around the point, aren’t you? What’s the matter? Afraid to deal with the obvious implications?

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Dancing around what? The loss of freedom? Increasing tyrrany? I’m not avoiding it. I see it coming like a freight train. It saddens me that in a few short years people have forgotten that thousands of people took to the streets in Poland and other countries and rejected the system we are now embracing.

So do you have a suggestion for what people can do? Earlier in this thread I said I hope more businesses join Hobby Lobby and refuse the mandates. Let the fines grow too big to collect. Strength in numbers. But it won’t happen. The others will sit on the sidelines and wait to see what happens.

It won’t matter if people wake up or not. We’re in a cycle that we have no control over. This is our place in history. We’re about to have a major world war and Hobby Lobby will be a moot point.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Well, I don’t want to be an eeyore but, in my opinion, the foundations were destroyed a long time ago. We’ve just been living large on the capital built up on those foundations but it is running out.

My fear is that, even though people are aware that something is wrong…they’re waking up to THAT…they have no mechanism for finding the way back to where we went wrong.

I try to talk to young people today and am caught up short by the awareness of the amount of information that they have to first UNLEARN before they can be brought up to speed on the things that really ARE.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM

They have been eroding for decades.
Things can change when direction changes. Believe it or not, if policy changed, money and business would flood back to the US.
Will this happen? It’s going to be close. With the people who voted for Obama in the face of what he obviously is, and the people who thought it smart to vote third party or sit the election out, my optimism for intelligent choice when things get rough, is not good.
But still, we are an exceptional people.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 10:40 AM

So do you have a suggestion for what people can do?

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM

It’s going to sound trite but, yes…repent.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:53 AM

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Obama, and our economic situation, are merely symptoms.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Obama, and our economic situation, are merely symptoms.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 10:54 AM

I agree.
They are symptoms of willful blindness.
The blinders can be removed at any time.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 10:56 AM

What we have going on now is the precipice of bad things happening to the majority of people.
People will wake up..its just a matter of if they will wake up in time to stop the final destruction of the foundations of the Republic and the economic structure.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 10:08 AM

What is it that Winston Churchill said? “The Americans will always do the right thing… after they have exhausted all other options.”

The American people, despite being good in essence for most of our history, have always been a stupid lummox of a country at the outset of big challenges. Individually, we have a lot of smart, wise people, but we have never been a wise nation. We stumble around and cut ourself and break bones and break the china tripping in the dark.

The early history of America’s involvement in WWII is riddled with idiocies such as non-exploding torpedoes, massed daylight bombing raids without fighter escort, etc.

Like turning a large ship, we usually suffer a lot from our stupidity until we learn from our hard knocks.

Then we win.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:58 AM

I will be going to Hobby Lobby Monday morning to by stuff I absolutely have no need for (next years winter solstice presents maybe) and to pay MORE than the sticker price. They can put it in an employee benefit fund ir something. If we all did this as a matter if course we recreate chic fil a and help them both mire ally and financially. It shouldn’t be a one time thing, every time we go choose a specific percentage to pay over and do it. Of course support them on line as well but let the employees see you. We are constantly asking/waiting for people to stand up. They have. Will we stand with them?

douglucy on January 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:58 AM

Well, if we’re going to “win” this time, we’d better get to work at removing those in positions of leadership in ALL areas of our collective life – that is, from the Arts, from Academia, from the Media, from business, from the positions of political power – who are morally corrupt.

Then go about restoring the moral foundations of our culture and civic life.

You really think that’s going to happen? You really think there are enough people of the opposite philosophical and religious mentality who can make that happen? And do you really think there’s enough time?

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

The early history of America’s involvement in WWII is riddled with idiocies such as non-exploding torpedoes, massed daylight bombing raids without fighter escort, etc.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:58 AM

They also didn’t black out the lights on the east coast so it was easy for the German U boats to sink merchant ships because their silhouette stood out. I read that they did that in order to present the image that it was business as usual in the U.S.A. during the war. A lot of guys died because of it.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

They also didn’t black out the lights on the east coast so it was easy for the German U boats to sink merchant ships because their silhouette stood out. I read that they did that in order to present the image that it was business as usual in the U.S.A. during the war. A lot of guys died because of it.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

We also sent massed convoys through the Arctic perpetual daylight (see Convoy PQ17) that provided a bloody feast for German U-boats and drowned an unforgivable number of our brave merchant-marine sailors.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 11:23 AM

Then we win.

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 10:58 AM

I sure hope so.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 11:43 AM

Wow. You’ve now spent two days fighting against a God whom you claim not to believe in, nor care about, just like some idiot poster named mazer9 did about a week ago.

Hmmm.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 9:35 AM

He’s fighting against the primitive thought and ignorance that is embodied in religion, not your mythical god.

Bandit13 on January 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM

cane_loader on January 6, 2013 at 11:23 AM

Thanks for that link. I don’t remember hearing about those events. There’s no shortage of them.

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Well, if we’re going to “win” this time, we’d better get to work at removing those in positions of leadership in ALL areas of our collective life – that is, from the Arts, from Academia, from the Media, from business, from the positions of political power – who are morally corrupt.

Then go about restoring the moral foundations of our culture and civic life.

You really think that’s going to happen? You really think there are enough people of the opposite philosophical and religious mentality who can make that happen? And do you really think there’s enough time?

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

That is the difference between now and the past challenges in our history. We have never had so many citizens blinded enough by lies to actually fight against their own country and values.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 11:46 AM

Dan_Yul is also mazer9 ? Add them both?

Bmore on January 6, 2013 at 11:55 AM

A 54 year old living in your mom’s basement? And you admit to that?

Dan_Yul on January 6, 2013 at 9:56 AM

Surely you’re aware that insufferable ass-clowns rarely win debates.

smoothsailing on January 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM

He’s fighting against the primitive thought and ignorance that is embodied in religion, not your mythical god.

Bandit13 on January 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM

What are you comparing that to?
Just curious.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 12:04 PM

If only your beloved GOP had such balls

The GOP will betray you

True_King on January 6, 2013 at 12:09 PM

He’s fighting against the primitive thought and ignorance that is embodied in religion, not your mythical god.

Bandit13 on January 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Sockpuppet of Dan-Yul.

smoothsailing on January 6, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Add this one also? Bandit13

Bmore on January 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM

If HHS were to give HL a waiver based on religious objections, then they would have to give one to all who asked for a waiver for the same reason. That number would be enormous which would further weaken the plan to take over all our health care insurance. Kissmygrits on January 6, 2013 at 9:12 AM

Well thanks for clearing that up for us. Most of us probably had no idea that the US Constitution only applies when there is no undo burden on the government’s plan to take over a private industry.

So if I understand it, if 1 million or more people wish to express their opinions on a subject matter, freedom of speech comes into play and the US Government can shut it down because they want to take over the US Media?

It also sounds like it’s going to be really easy for the US Government to ban all private ownership of guns since it’s in the US Government’s best interest and according to you that’s what the US Constitution is all about.

Pardon me if I ask a question though – what does the preamble that says “We the People of the United States of America” mean? Is that really “We the Government”?

katablog.com on January 6, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Surely you’re aware that insufferable ass-clowns rarely win debates.

smoothsailing on January 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Surely you’re aware that insufferable ass-clowns like Dan_Yul and Bandit13 are incapable of realizing when they’re losing debates! :)

Anti-Control on January 6, 2013 at 12:41 PM

I would go even further. A private company should not be forced by the government to provide health insurance.

davidk on January 5, 2013 at 3:08 PM

100%

It should be a choice the company makes in order to attract a better selection of workers. If a company wants to not offer something as part of the wage package, then people have the choice not to apply or work there.

kim roy on January 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM

Wouldn’t it be ironic if O-hole’s push for Healthcare ended the whole “fringe benefit” thing completely.

Bulletchaser on January 6, 2013 at 12:42 PM

No.

The problem is the ones who DO seek power over others have now, in fact, gained power the world over but – being they hypocrites they always are – accuse those of us who just want to be left alone of wanting to force OUR views upon THEM. It is, literally, Orwellian. So, no, everyone is not like them but apparently you’ve bought into their lie that everyone is, or has the capacity.

S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 1:01 PM

I don’t think you understood my point.
We are basically saying the same thing.

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM

You did state “everybody,” by which I took to mean…well…everybody. You were very clear so not seeing where I misunderstood you.

S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 1:22 PM

My comment was “all people..or groups of people, who want to control others”…..

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Correction – I do see what you meant now, and I apologize. We are saying the same thing. Forgive me.

S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 1:22 PM

No apology neede S.P, sometimes I can be kind of abstract. I can read my own post and wonder what I was trying to say! :)

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Letter, also known as marketing.

Moesart on January 6, 2013 at 1:46 PM

God, also known as “Our Creator”.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 2:32 PM

S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 3:06 PM

It’s quite telling, isn’t it, how many trolls are such but even more disturbing are the numbers in the higher echelons of this present administration.

Cleombrotus on January 6, 2013 at 3:24 PM

S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 3:27 PM

That fact was quite evident around here during the campaign.

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 3:32 PM

S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 3:34 PM

We had some that came on in during the dual open registration before the elections, whose sole purpose seemed to be the degradation and insulting of the Conservative Base and any Primary Candidate that was not Romney. But, I digress…

kingsjester on January 6, 2013 at 3:38 PM

It seems to me that if “honoring God” is mentioned in the original company mission statements, then they should be exempt… period

I don’t think the IRS would accept such as statement if, for example, a business tried to avoid paying taxes. “We’re not a business, Mr. IRS”, “we serve God.”

It takes more than a “mission statement”, it seems to me. It would require actions.

We know that a number of folks have tried to avoid paying taxes by establishing fake churches or fake non-profits.

The owners of Hobby Lobby may be sincere in their words (all of their actions indicate it) but that won’t be sufficient.

This is a lot more gray than some folks think. I think what the Obama HHS is doing is disgusting. But is it unconstitutional?

I suggest reading Scalia’s opinion in Employment Division v. Smith. Especially his view on “neutral laws and their general applicability.”

SteveMG on January 6, 2013 at 4:05 PM

You won’t read about this in the MSM. A “woman” defending herself?

GarandFan on January 6, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Obama saved her! If not for Obama’s wisdom, the intruder would have been there only to kill but Obama’s magnificence stopped him.

Liam on January 6, 2013 at 4:20 PM

I did my part today, ordering $60 in art supplies for the next semester from Hobby Lobby, though could have easily picked them up here in NYC.

Madisonian on January 6, 2013 at 4:53 PM

It’s worth pointing out that the mandate doesn’t exempt actual religious organizations either, such as Catholic charities, Presbyterian hospitals, Lutheran schools, and so on. Why? That’s the crux of the issue: the Obama administration is attempting to redefine religious expression to only those activities which take place within the four walls of a place of worship, or those activities restricted only to those of a single faith. That means that Catholic hospitals would qualify only if they refused to treat and employ any non-Catholics, for instance. Can you imagine those lawsuits?

This is why the lawsuit is so important

Obama is attempting to redefine religious freedom, via regulation

I am so grateful for Hobby Lobby, the Catholic Church and all who are fighting this epic battle for us. If no one takes on this battle, the regulatory process will consume religious expression, and then sights will turn to the remaining rights, guns, assembly, etc

May God help all who have entered this battle.

entagor on January 6, 2013 at 6:51 PM

If you believe HL can deny contraceptives based on religious beliefs of the ownership, then you believe Scientologist business owners can deny access to psychiatric care, you believe Jehovas Witnesses can deny access to blood transfusions, etc.

My boss is a christian too, that doesn’t mean he gets to make my medical decisions for me. He’s my boss, not my doctor.

triple on January 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM

If you believe HL can deny contraceptives based on religious beliefs of the ownership, then you believe Scientologist business owners can deny access to psychiatric care, you believe Jehovas Witnesses can deny access to blood transfusions, etc.

Sorry, but HL isn’t “denying” contraception to its workers. It’s just not going to pay for it for them. The workers don’t get it for free.

They can still purchase the contraception with their own money – including money that HL pays them.

Nobody is being denied anything here. The question is whether the government can force HL to provide it and whether the religion clause of the First Amendment says they (the government) can’t.

SteveMG on January 6, 2013 at 7:45 PM

If you believe HL can deny contraceptives based on religious beliefs of the ownership, then you believe Scientologist business owners can deny access to psychiatric care, you believe Jehovas Witnesses can deny access to blood transfusions, etc.

My boss is a christian too, that doesn’t mean he gets to make my medical decisions for me. He’s my boss, not my doctor.

triple on January 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM

You are employed?

tom daschle concerned on January 6, 2013 at 8:05 PM

If you believe HL can deny contraceptives based on religious beliefs of the ownership, then you believe Scientologist business owners can deny access to psychiatric care, you believe Jehovas Witnesses can deny access to blood transfusions, etc.

My boss is a christian too, that doesn’t mean he gets to make my medical decisions for me. He’s my boss, not my doctor.

triple on January 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Contraceptives are no more “healthcare” decisions than aspirin or decongestants are. Probably about the same cost too.
Do you expect your employer to buy your aspirin and nasal spray too?

Mimzey on January 6, 2013 at 8:12 PM

My boss is a christian too, that doesn’t mean he gets to make my medical decisions for me. He’s my boss, not my doctor.

Geez, talk about not knowing what the issue is.

So, if your boss refuses to pay for your contraception that means you can’t get it otherwise?

Are you in an iron lung or something?

SteveMG on January 6, 2013 at 8:41 PM

If you believe HL can deny contraceptives based on religious beliefs of the ownership, then you believe Scientologist business owners can deny access to psychiatric care, you believe Jehovas Witnesses can deny access to blood transfusions, etc.

Well yeah, I do believe that. See the employer can decide what type of insurance they want to offer and an employee has a CHOICE to find another job.

My boss is a christian too, that doesn’t mean he gets to make my medical decisions for me. He’s my boss, not my doctor.

triple on January 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Nobody is making your medical decisions. They are deciding what insurance they want to provide their employees. It’s their company and their money. Don’t like it go work somewhere else..

melle1228 on January 6, 2013 at 9:05 PM

So, if your boss refuses to pay for your contraception that means you can’t get it otherwise?

I think you misunderstand the whole concept of employee benefits.

Well, you and the entire republican party.

Employees earn benefits through, believe it or not, this thing called “going to work”. They aren’t free gifts given due to the goodwill of the employer. You earn them.

If an employer can tell you what you can do with your health insurance, it follows they could tell you what to spend your hard earned money on, as well.

I’m sorry, thought this was america. Where when you earned your paycheck (and your benefits) – they were yours to do with as you please.

Hobby Lobby therefore isn’t paying for anyone’s contraception. They are providing comprehensive health insurance to their employees as payment for a hard days work. What an employee does with their EARNED benefits at the end of the day, well that’s between them and their physician, now isn’t it?

triple on January 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

Employees earn benefits through, believe it or not, this thing called “going to work”. They aren’t free gifts given due to the goodwill of the employer. You earn them.
triple on January 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

If the employer wouldn’t have paid for the “benefit” apart from government coercion than the employee didn’t “earn” it at all. It’s just another government giveaway funded by a tax on the employer.

tommyboy on January 7, 2013 at 4:49 AM

Years ago I recall reading of the suspicion (laughed off by the majority as conspiratorial nuttiness) that many trolls on conservative sites were in the paid service of various governments, including our own.
I may be the only one who’ll admit it but I always believed it was true. Still do.
S.P. Link on January 6, 2013 at 3:27 PM

They are called “community organizers” and there’s no end to what they can do when subsidized by billions of dollars of stimulus money.

tommyboy on January 7, 2013 at 5:41 AM

If you believe HL can deny contraceptives based on religious beliefs of the ownership, then you believe Scientologist business owners can deny access to psychiatric care, you believe Jehovas Witnesses can deny access to blood transfusions, etc.

My boss is a christian too, that doesn’t mean he gets to make my medical decisions for me. He’s my boss, not my doctor.

triple on January 6, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Are you 12 by any chance?

Your understanding (or non-understanding, actually) of at-will employment, health insurance and employee benefits is that of a child who has spent exactly zero hours living in the working world.

Good Lt on January 7, 2013 at 7:56 AM

Employees earn benefits through, believe it or not, this thing called “going to work”. They aren’t free gifts given due to the goodwill of the employer. You earn them.

Correct.

They employer is not obligated to provide you with whatever you want. They provide you with what you have agreed to accept as a condition of your employment. That’s why it’s called ‘at will.’ You both voluntarily agree in the exchange.

If you don’t like what the employer is offering in exchange for your services, you don’t have to work there. That’s called freedom. You have the freedom not to accept the offer, and the employer has the freedom to offer whatever employees will accept as compensation for services rendered.

You really don’t appear to understand even the most basic principles involved with this issue, and it would be better for you if you just stopped commenting on it until you do understand it.

That’s advice I’m sure you’re not going to take.

If an employer can tell you what you can do with your health insurance, it follows they could tell you what to spend your hard earned money on, as well.

NOk they can’t.

That’s why there’s this thing called a CONTRACT, which is legally enforceable, that tells what the employer is offering, and which you agree to accept as a condition of employment. Once your services are rendered, the employer is obligated BY LAW to honor what they said in the contract they would be obligated to render for those services. Nothing more, at their discretion.

If you don’t like it, you have the option not to work there (and not to sign it), to quit or be fired.

Again, your non-understanding of this appears to be that of a 12-year old.

>I’m sorry, thought this was america.

OK, Randy Marsh.

It is America. If you don’t like what you’re being offered or paid, then leave. It’s simple.

Where when you earned your paycheck (and your benefits) – they were yours to do with as you please.

It’s not the employer’s obligation to provide you with whatever health insurance plan YOU want. It’s their choice to offer whatever they want and can afford to offer as a benefit of employment. You have no more right to tell them what health plan they are to offer than they do to tell you how to spend your paycheck.

Hobby Lobby therefore isn’t paying for anyone’s contraception. They are providing comprehensive health insurance to their employees as payment for a hard days work. What an employee does with their EARNED benefits at the end of the day, well that’s between them and their physician, now isn’t it?

triple on January 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

Incorrect. They are offering health plans that they feel are in accordance with their religious beliefs, and which many employees are obviously OK with (otherwise, they’d be working somewhere else). I may not agree with those religious beliefs or find them a valid justification for not offering certain insurance plans that others may offer, but that doesn’t mean I now have the authority to tell them what health plans they are to offer employees.

If the employees or prospective employees don’t like those plans, they don’t have to work at HL.

What is so hard to understand about this?

Good Lt on January 7, 2013 at 8:09 AM

HUAH!!! You ‘GO’, Hobby Lobby!

easyt65 on January 7, 2013 at 9:14 AM

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