Toomey: GOP should be willing to risk shutdown to get cuts in debt ceiling deal

posted at 3:31 pm on January 3, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham

Sen. Pat Toomey is one of the great accomplishments of the Tea Party Movement, and after supporting him in ’04 back when Bush was backing Specter, it does my heart good to see him in our dysfunctional deliberate body. For that same reason, some are very angry at him for his vote on the fiscal cliff deal. But as we go into another debt-ceiling fight, he’s one of our better communicators on this issue. So, it also does my heart good to see him go on “Morning Joe,” up against five people who disagree with him, and direct the conversation, over and over, away from the fig leaf of revenue and back to the real issue of entitlements and $16 trillion in debt.

There are some, like Ben Domenech, who think the debt ceiling deal will look much like this one— a short-term get-out-of-jail solution that again doesn’t address our real problems because no one really wants to address them. There are some, like Jim Pethokoukis, who think it’ll end in another tax hike.

If it’s ever going to look any different, with the GOP demanding what’s best for the country— “getting us off the path to Greece,” as Toomey puts it by addressing entitlement reform and maybe tax reform—it’s going to take people like Toomey to explain that, on TV, every single day. Many Americans simply don’t understand the gravity of the debt problem. Democrats and some Republicans are more than happy to feed this misunderstanding by pretending these deals make some kind of progress because it helps them avoid stickier budget wickets.

Toomey’s Wednesday appearance is getting a lot of press because he said the GOP should be willing to risk a temporary government shut-down to get cuts, but that’s just the beginning of what he said. He challenges the panel on the notion that credit downgrades come from these skirmishes and short-term deals or whether they really come from such deals making clear the U.S. is unwilling to tackle its larger problems. He challenged them on whether a temporary shutdown would cause more pain and disruption than allowing the debt problem to fester until it calls for more drastic measures. He informed them that one of the reasons we’re in these cliff situations is because Democratic senators haven’t passed a budget in three years. All of that should be part of the conversation, but it won’t be unless Republicans like Toomey make it part of the conversation.

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HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAH!!

Yeah, that’s rich, but we are talking about a Party
afraid of it’s own shadow.

ToddPA on January 3, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Yes.

Washington Nearsider on January 3, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Agreed.

Soloist Toomey needs a choir behind him.

The $16 Trillion Question: From whence will they come?

IndieDogg on January 3, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Someone sent the email that stated if you had a very large plumbing back up, and you came home to a house totally full of it…would you raise the ceiling or remove the sh!t?

right2bright on January 3, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I hate to be a pessimist, but there’s very few willing to say the things that Toomey is saying. It’s just not very good politics. Our low-information electorate hates that kind of talk. So…we’ll probably just lurch from cliff to cliff, crises to crises, until it all collapses.

TarheelBen on January 3, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Great words. Unfortunately, you re-elected Boehner. Toomey’s words will never see the floor, or anyone else’s ears for that matter.

Darin on January 3, 2013 at 3:40 PM

What? You mean the Congressional Republicans have actual power after all?! And yet Republicans constantly tell me that Boehner and McConnell have no choice except to rubber stamp the Obama agenda. I’m so confuzzled! /

Doomberg on January 3, 2013 at 3:41 PM

But as we go into another debt-ceiling fight, he’s one of our better communicators on this issue.

While I agree with you, you have just identified one of the lowest bars in the history of mankind.

besser tot als rot on January 3, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Oh my…the drama queens are out posting today…the sky is falling, the sky is falling…

right2bright on January 3, 2013 at 1:42 PM

Schadenfreude on January 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM

From Toomey’s lips to Boeheners backbone.

We can dream can’t we?

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Toomey: GOP should be willing to risk shutdown to get cuts in debt ceiling deal

Colour me enormously skeptical.

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 3:43 PM

From Toomey’s lips to Boeheners backbone.

We can dream can’t we?

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM

We can. And that is a lot better than just surrendering as some folks around here seem to want to do.

VegasRick on January 3, 2013 at 3:44 PM

…just get rid of the ceiling, it is a joke, everyone knows it will always be raised.

…vanitas.

equanimous on January 3, 2013 at 3:45 PM

LOLOLOLOLOL

Yeah, good luck with that Toomey.

Mr. Arrogant on January 3, 2013 at 3:46 PM

But Joe Scar and his fellow Prog media Comrades would say real bad things about the GOP and it would make Boner cry…so no, they can’t do that!

d1carter on January 3, 2013 at 3:47 PM

Boeheners backbone.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM

I’m thinking this probably applies to Boehner…

“The trouble with you, John, is that your spine does not reach your brain.”

- Baroness Thatcher

Too bad that she didn’t follow through on this:

“When I’m out of politics I’m going to run a business, it’ll be called rent-a-spine.”

- Baroness Thatcher

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 3:47 PM

Toomey’s Wednesday appearance is getting a lot of press because he said the GOP should be willing to risk a temporary government shut-down to get cuts, but that’s just the beginning of what he said. He challenges the panel on the notion … . He challenged them on whether … . He informed them … .

Here is the best thing that he did. He challenged them. He did not accept their false premises and try to argue based on them. The GOP has been accepting the left’s questions based on lies and straw men for too long. It has to stop. While I never supported him as a candidate, this is one of the good things that Gingrich did in the primaries.

besser tot als rot on January 3, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Strongly agree with Toomey. There’s a year and a half before the next election. Tax increases should be already off the table unless the Democrats want to go into a midterm election having raised taxes on everyone. Or, give them an opening bid in line with the fiscal cliff bill: $41 in cuts for every $1 of revenue.

Mohonri on January 3, 2013 at 3:48 PM

And here they are in action…Here

right2bright on January 3, 2013 at 3:51 PM

Obama & his media lackeys are gonna roll Boehner again in this ongoing game of Rochambeau.

The Washington GOP is a joke.

SAMinVA on January 3, 2013 at 3:51 PM

love toomey…he should be on every lsm channel every bloody day maybe not on tingles show because he wouldn’t get a word in edgewise with all the interruptions…

cmsinaz on January 3, 2013 at 3:53 PM

At this point, my response is: show me something. Something conservative. Something real and significant. Until then, STFU and STFD.

bofh on January 3, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Pardon me for somewhat OT, but I wanted to promulgate this George Will quote from the Headlines:

Second, Barack Obama has (as Winston Churchill said of an adversary) “the gift of compressing the largest amount of words into the smallest amount of thought.” His incessant talking swaddles one wee idea — raising taxes on “millionaires and billionaires,” including people earning less than half a million. He has nothing pertinent to say about the steadily worsening fiscal imbalance that will make sluggish growth — less than 3 percent — normal.

“compressing the largest amount of words into the smallest amount of thought” is SO descriptive of Obama. Whoever taught Obama to attach meaning to words failed spectacularly.

So this is who we’re dealing with. An extremely small-minded, narcissistic man who sees things only through his own narrow, far left liberal utopian eyes. Whose words are a performance art with only tiny slivers of meaning. It will always be that way with Obama. A smile, a laugh, a relaxed saunter of a walk.

Paul-Cincy on January 3, 2013 at 3:54 PM

I’m in, shut it down, or at least make sure it’s on the table.
These clowns are scared sh1tless that most people will discover how little the government actually does.
Let’s face it, the media will blame the republicans regardless of outcome, so why not go for it? I’m betting there are plenty of Dem hacks that would cave before letting all those precious cheese-fed constituents get shut out.
And as I recall, part of the last ceiling deal was taking military and social security pay off the endangered list in the event of shutdown, which takes away a huge part of the downside politically. Shut ‘er down, see what happens.

JusDreamin on January 3, 2013 at 3:56 PM

Our group had the pleasure of sitting with him at dinner a little over four years ago on the post-election National Review cruise.

What a gentleman he is: low-key, well-spoken, and brilliant.

Drained Brain on January 3, 2013 at 3:57 PM

I want Conservative Leadership. I want somebody to stand up on their hind legs and tell Obama the way the cow ate the cabbage. I want someone to actually give a hoot ‘n holler about the average American, not the special interest groups, not the lobbyists, not “the smartest people in the room”…me.

I want an American President and competent American Congress people.

I want a dadblamed budget, first. I want them to be good stewards of MY money. Not their “revenue”. I want someone to stand up and be a MAN…or a WOMAN.

I am so dadgum tired of mealy-mouth squishes and political niceties and expediences, I could spit. Too many Americans are out of work and doing without this Christmas, while the three ring circus performs unabated under the Big Top on Capital Hill.

The American people are tired of cleaning up after the donkeys and the elephants.

/rant off

kingsjester on January 3, 2013 at 3:58 PM

…give them an opening bid in line with the fiscal cliff bill: $41 in cuts for every $1 of revenue.

Mohonri on January 3, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Brilliant!

JusDreamin on January 3, 2013 at 3:59 PM

The Big problem here is, once again, the media.
I caught a few min of MSNBC last night, and guess which part of that clip they played over and over?

You guessed it, the part about the Reps. shutting down government.

I don’t know if CNN will do similar.

But for most of the non-curious out there….all they will here is once again the Reps. want to shut down the government.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

Colour me enormously skeptical.

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 3:43 PM

I love it when you speak with a British accent. ;-)

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

Sen. Pat Toomey is one of the great accomplishments of the Tea Party Movement, and after supporting him in ’04 back when Bush was backing Specter, it does my heart good to see him in our dysfunctional deliberate body. For that same reason, some are very angry at him for his vote on the fiscal cliff deal. But as we go into another debt-ceiling fight, he’s one of our better communicators on this issue. So, it also does my heart good to see him go on “Morning Joe,” up against five people who disagree with him, and direct the conversation, over and over, away from the fig leaf of revenue and back to the real issue of entitlements and $16 trillion in debt.

All well and good, I suppose, but when the debt ceiling fight occurs, why in Heaven’s name would you begin to even have a rumor of a belief that he won’t do as he did in the fiscal cliff deal – and fold?

Good grief, how many times do we have to watch these guys say one thing and then do another before we figure out that they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, and their ACTIONS matter, not their words?

Midas on January 3, 2013 at 4:02 PM

The Big problem here is, once again, the media.
I caught a few min of MSNBC last night, and guess which part of that clip they played over and over?

You guessed it, the part about the Reps. shutting down government.

I don’t know if CNN will do similar.

But for most of the non-curious out there….all they will here is once again the Reps. want to shut down the government.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

I’m not sure that’s all a bad thing.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:02 PM

No, just raise the debt ceiling up to 20 trillion immediately.

ninjapirate on January 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM

After listening to all that from Toomey, WHY are people still blaming John Boehner??? This is the SENATE’s fault, Boehner cannot not do anything as long as Harry Reid is determined to never bring to the Senate floor anything that the House passes first! As long as Reid is determined not to have any Democrat vote on a budget, we won’t have a budget.

rockmom on January 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Yeah, it really is.

This is what happened last year regarding the debt ceiling.

And the Reps. will cave, because the media paints them as the evil ones who only want to shut down government and put people out of work.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Biden – in strange accent – to brother of the only African-American member of the upper chamber, Senator Tim Scott:

‘If you need any help on your pecs, let me know’

If Biden were a monkey in the zoo, he would fling shit at himself. What a buffooooooooooooooooooooooon!

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM

I love it when you speak with a British accent. ;-)

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

lol

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Wow, Mika is not aging well is she?

Rocks on January 3, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Midas on January 3, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Agreed. At some point, soon, the R’s are going to have state exactly what the want and what they are prepared to do to get it.

If you won’t throw out a serious threat, you won’t get a serious response.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:06 PM

rockmom on January 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM

To some extent you might be right.

But Boehner is awful at negotiating.

He spent the last month negotiating with himself.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM

Yeah, it really is.

This is what happened last year regarding the debt ceiling.

And the Reps. will cave, because the media paints them as the evil ones who only want to shut down government and put people out of work.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM

See my 4:06 comment. It worked for the Prez.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM

This is the phase where some GOP members talk tough and talk about doing the right thing.

The final phase is general GOP capitulation.

gwelf on January 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM

After listening to all that from Toomey, WHY are people still blaming John Boehner???

rockmom on January 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Simple. The mainstream press and the Democrats (redundant, I know) have convinced the unwashed masses that Boehner is the bad guy who controls the house and the Senate, and is singlehandedly blocking all efforts by 0bama and those good-hearted Democrats from “doing the right thing.”

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:08 PM

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM

One thing though.
The media has the POTUS’ back.

Not the Reps. or even the people’s back at this point.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:10 PM

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:08 PM

Exactly.

Reid went on the floor of the senate and blamed the Reps.

I think he also likened it to Adolph or communism.

And the press/media didn’t question him on that one bit…
Ask him what he was offering or why the Senate hasn’t passed a budget in 4 yrs.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Why is the GOP message always that they are going to shut it down?
It should be O is going to shut it down, if he doe’s not compromise.

tygart on January 3, 2013 at 4:13 PM

Ask him what he was offering or why the Senate hasn’t passed a budget in 4 yrs.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:12 PM

That right there is the real failure of the republican party. They need to be on TV every day asking why it has been 4 years since the Democrat-controlled Senate has not passed a budget in 4 years.

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Do not go after social security and medicare at this point… Go after the Welfare State and the parasites who are living on the taxpayers money… Republicans should make the Welfare queens parasites the face of the democrat party and ask the voters if they want their tax money to go to them… Do they want their children and future generations to be in insane debt so the welfare queen parasite gets her free phone…Rile up the emotions of the voters… Nothing will rile up the producers than going after the Welfare state and its parasites… Also go after non essential government agencies and departments such as the EPA, the department of Labor, Housing and Urban developement department, Human and health services, Energy department… Cuts these agencies and deperatment by at least 50%…

mnjg on January 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Biden – in strange accent – to brother of the only African-American member of the upper chamber, Senator Tim Scott:

‘If you need any help on your pecs, let me know’

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Biden to Senator Heitkamp’s Husband:

‘Spread your legs—you’re going to be frisked’

#TripleFacepalmWithFullEyebore

Resist We Much on January 3, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Our boy Joe is really on a roll today, isn’t he?

Must be off his meds. Or just a total schmuck.

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Let’s face it

When it to comes to numbers and budgets.

You start talking that, and most people will glaze over and tune out.

So the Dems don’t talk like that….all they say is it is “Their fault” and leave it at that.
KNowing the media will not follow up with more probing questions.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM

That right there is the real failure of the republican party. They need to be on TV every day asking why it has been 4 years since the Democrat-controlled Senate has not passed a budget in 4 years.

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:14 PM

You know what their answer is?

……Because you Republicans in the House let us, that’s why. But hey, you guys have fun storming the castle!

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Can someone explain me, in simpleton’s terms, why should any Republican even bother to negotiate raising the debt ceiling? Failing to do so would instantly and irreversibly balance the budget, shut down most governmental institutions (EPA, BATFE, DOE and some others among them), and unlatch a whole lot of parasites (most of them Democrats) off governmental titty. Outside of media screeching and threats of violence, Democrats have zero leverage when it comes to the debt.

Archivarix on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

The mainstream press and the Democrats (redundant, I know) have convinced the unwashed masses that Boehner is the bad guy…

and obese New Jersey repub governors and prissy NY rep house members and many other media approved republicans

DanMan on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

Somewhat glad he’s my senator, but talk is cheap.

CurtZHP on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

That right there is the real failure of the republican party. They need to be on TV every day asking why it has been 4 years since the Democrat-controlled Senate has not passed a budget in 4 years.

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Duh…. I just read that sentence again and saw how badly it sounded. Sorry, Folks!

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

mnjg on January 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM

You know that all sounds well and good….

But Kirsten Powers was on Bill O’Reilly shows, and something along those lines came up…..
And of course she went into the left spin on that, and how a lot of the people take offense when the right talks like that….
Because some people are on those programs through no choice of their own….

And to some extent I agree with her…..
You can’t just start throwing that verbiage around….The media will have a field day and it will be “the 47% all over again”

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

Let’s be honest.
The Republicans have very poor spokes people and messaging when it comes to this.
They try to take the logical/practical/thinking angle on the issues…and use reason.

While the left and uninformed stick with the emotional aspect.

And with that equation the right will always be screwed…..
Until they can get someone who can speak and break things down….

Kinda like Reagan did.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:24 PM

blink on January 3, 2013 at 4:23 PM

LOL

I have to say that is funny…..

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:26 PM

You know what their answer is?

……Because you Republicans in the House let us, that’s why. But hey, you guys have fun storming the castle!

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Or, they might just say, “Are you serious? Are you serious?”

UltimateBob on January 3, 2013 at 4:27 PM

Great words. Unfortunately, you re-elected Boehner. Toomey’s words will never see the floor, or anyone else’s ears for that matter.

Darin on January 3, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Toomey also voted for that abortion of a class warfare, tax raising bill, which I’ll never understand why. I liked Toomey but there is no explanation for that vote, whatsoever, and all of his words are meaningless after that – and his pathetic vote to put the Weeper back in.

I just don’t know what the hell he was thinking … but I can’t say that I care anymore. Toomey cast his lot with those two votes and showed what he really is.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 3, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Oops. Toomey had nothing to do with the Weeper. Duh! I don’t know what I was thinking. But his clas warfare vote was death.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 3, 2013 at 4:30 PM

Can someone explain me, in simpleton’s terms, why should any Republican even bother to negotiate raising the debt ceiling? Failing to do so would instantly and irreversibly balance the budget, shut down most governmental institutions (EPA, BATFE, DOE and some others among them), and unlatch a whole lot of parasites (most of them Democrats) off governmental titty. Outside of media screeching and threats of violence, Democrats have zero leverage when it comes to the debt.

Archivarix on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

+1

They could do it, and they have the power.

They don’t want to balance the budget, or make any hard choices.

sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 4:32 PM

blink on January 3, 2013 at 4:29 PM

In the end it will be capitulation, just watch.

The big thing here is that the media plays sides.
And as long as that is the case, then Reps are on the losing side.

They brought up Obama’s Senate speech last go round, and the reasoning his mouth pieces gave was because it was “political” and didn’t mean anything.

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:34 PM

I bet that after the virtual ‘groin kick’ the GOP took on the latest bill and the absolutely arrogant comments made by Reid and Obama towards Boehner this past week will light some sort of fire under the GOP.

Boehner know’s he’s on very thin ice with a large segment of the party and he’s got a lot of ground to make up. I expect the GOP to put up quite a fight this time and I’m looking forward to a knock-down, bear-knuckle confrontation.

We just need to get into the gutter and meet the dems on their level this time.

JetBlast on January 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

America’s real enemy is the Prog legacy media. Breitbart knew it and fought it. Other than financial collapse, how do we destroy the media’s power..?

d1carter on January 3, 2013 at 4:38 PM

I expect the GOP to put up quite a fight this time and I’m looking forward to a knock-down, bear-knuckle confrontation.

JetBlast on January 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

“HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!”……. “Oh wait. You were serious?”

sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 4:40 PM

Boehner know’s he’s on very thin ice with a large segment of the party and he’s got a lot of ground to make up. I expect the GOP to put up quite a fight this time and I’m looking forward to a knock-down, bear-knuckle confrontation.

We just need to get into the gutter and meet the dems on their level this time.

JetBlast on January 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Your optimisim is compelling but my years of following politics tells me something different.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:41 PM

Yesterday was the ‘Twilight Zone‘ of Morning Joe episodes. First day back from Holiday break, Mr. Scarborough, like a New Year’s Eve drunk, said “I love you” about a half-dozen times, including the one he laid on Sen. Toomey in the vid.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 4:42 PM

Until they demand the end of Baseline Budgeting, nothing changes.
Also, the end of COLA’S.
The “deal” should include the above and a demand that the D’s produce a budget and pass it in the Senate before the House will touch it.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
III/0317

dirtengineer on January 3, 2013 at 4:42 PM

THIS needs to be the new Repubecan slogan,

EFF IT! Let it burn!

Elections have consequences, so bend over America, Obama and the Democrats are going to give you exactly what you voted for!

Let us know how it works out for you.

Meople on January 3, 2013 at 4:44 PM

I understand the basis for your pessimism, but keep in mind that Republican members of congress can now claim that they already agreed to raise taxes and now it’s time to cut spending.

Sure, the liberal media will do their best to destroy this simple message, but at least it’s a better argument than we had during the last debt ceiling fight.

blink on January 3, 2013 at 4:23 PM

You’re completely mistaken, and its disturbing – and proves my previous point – that you still think this way.

The libs/media will simply say “the fiscal cliff deal was a good start, but the rich still aren’t paying their fair share, so we have to continue to work towards a balanced approach, for the good of the children, of course, and…”

Look, they’re not going to talk spending, they’re going to want to continue raising taxes on the millionaires and billionaires – you know, the ones that make more than $250k – that got away during the fiscal cliff deal, and further raise them beyond those levels.

Listen to this, and learn it – they are not done raising taxes. If the word ‘deficit’ comes up, libs know nothing about and have no interest in cutting spending – they are not. going. to do it. The answer for them, even though it’s mindless and will never be enough, is always and only – raise taxes.

Do we have it yet? Are we clear? Can you offer any evidence from the last several decades that would suggest that this is incorrect? Hell, Obama has already been saying as much in the last two days, okay?

ffs.

Midas on January 3, 2013 at 4:46 PM

dirtengineer on January 3, 2013 at 4:42 PM”

I agree with the budget idea but you have to take it one step further. A budget passed by both Houses and signed by Obama.

The marker should be layed down now so work can begin.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 4:46 PM

Boehner know’s he’s on very thin ice with a large segment of the party and he’s got a lot of ground to make up. I expect the GOP to put up quite a fight this time and I’m looking forward to a knock-down, bear-knuckle confrontation.

We just need to get into the gutter and meet the dems on their level this time.

JetBlast on January 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

lol, omg.

Are you taking odds? There’s no safer ‘sure thing’ bet out there than betting against what you just said.

Midas on January 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM

Pat Toomey is a good man.

Just a reminder here – the GOP establishment admonished Toomey for attempting to primary Arlen Specter. Establishment-Ayatollah-Elite Senator John Cornyn backed Arlen Specter over Pat Toomey. Specter later switched parties and became a Democrat – as did Charlie Crist – even though HE had the endorsement of John Cornyn and NRSC over Marco Rubio.

The GOP establishment is running the GOP still. Until this changes my prediction is the same as Mr. T’s ….

PAIN

HondaV65 on January 3, 2013 at 4:50 PM

The Republicans need to DISARM the propaganda media BEFORE and fiscal fight.

What the Republicans should do FIRST is to raise the debt ceiling by 200 billion as part of the Sandy relief package on Friday.

There will STILL be a major fight regarding the sequestration as well as a continueing resolution. These are the two issues that they need to make the media talk about. In fact, it will seperate the bogus arguement that the debt ceiling increase has ANYTHING to do with credit downgrades.

Obama will be left trying to explain how he needs TWO sets of tax increases on top of the tax increase he sighned YESTERDAY!

As for what to put at the top of the list for the Republicans to demand in exchange for that CR is the END of BASELINE budgeting. If this is the issue, it will be on the back of the Democrats, and their propangadists in the media, to explain both what it is and why eliminating it is ‘terrible for the country’. I suspect that the Democrats will fail to ever explain why they allowed the government to be shut down over something most people will never understand.

Of course, with the ‘must do in one second or the world will end’ item of a debt ceiling removed, any solution can go through the regular bill negotiating process. Which takes all the pressure off of Boehner and the Republicans. The truth is, ONLY the big government people lose if the government has a shutdown longer than a weekend!!

Freddy on January 3, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Argh…I actually think it’s possible to win the debt ceiling messaging on this one. Play Obama’s speech from the Senate over and over and over again. Say that taxes have been already raised over and over and over again. Say that the US Government spends too much money over and over and over again.

If you disagree, then feel free to propose your plan. Capitulation?

blink on January 3, 2013 at 4:29 PM

I’ve proposed a very simple plan time and time again. To what end? This isn’t a thread about the merits of Midas’ plan, is it?

Midas on January 3, 2013 at 4:58 PM

Outside of media screeching and threats of violence, Democrats have zero leverage when it comes to the debt.

I think you are forgetting that Obama is the President of the united states. He has the full executive power at his disposal. He could implement the 40% cut in any way he pleases. His WH has probably been figuring out the exact distribution of cuts that would maximize the political pain on Republicans. If he wanted to, he could cut off SS benefits for those in districts whose representative has not voted for a clean debt ceiling increase, until they change their mind. He could literally do whatever he wanted.

How long do you think it would take Republicans to cave after giving the President the power to cut whatever he wanted (by doing nothing)? A week? Two weeks? Obama might be hoping for longer, to give him a chance to decimate the GOP for a generation, but I doubt the GOP would wait that long.

There is precedent for this. Republicans made the same noise they are making now, in 1995. They wouldn’t raise the debt ceiling without cuts. But Clinton said he wouldn’t negotiate, and let them know what dates SS checks would stop, etc. He got a clean increase. The idea that a Congress can win such a battle by giving the President unimaginable power is a little silly.

jd3181 on January 3, 2013 at 4:58 PM

After listening to all that from Toomey, WHY are people still blaming John Boehner??? This is the SENATE’s fault, Boehner cannot not do anything as long as Harry Reid is determined to never bring to the Senate floor anything that the House passes first! As long as Reid is determined not to have any Democrat vote on a budget, we won’t have a budget.

rockmom on January 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Stop trying to shield the wimpy Boehner like this. He deserves blame for being a laughably inept negotiator who doesn’t seem to understand what “leverage” means, let alone how to use it – he reminds me of lame, unadmirable parents who are afraid to say, “No!” to their own kids.

You know that all sounds well and good….

But Kirsten Powers was on Bill O’Reilly shows, and something along those lines came up…..
And of course she went into the left spin on that, and how a lot of the people take offense when the right talks like that….
Because some people are on those programs through no choice of their own….

And to some extent I agree with her…..
You can’t just start throwing that verbiage around….The media will have a field day and it will be “the 47% all over again”

MityMaxx on January 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM

“Oh, no – the media will make us look bad again!!!”

Hand-wringing worrywarts like you are not leadership material, let me tell you.

Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 5:05 PM

But Clinton said he wouldn’t negotiate, and let them know what dates SS checks would stop, etc. He got a clean increase. The idea that a Congress can win such a battle by giving the President unimaginable power is a little silly.

You’ve got start off with something so scary, that a couple of Trillion in cuts over 10 years doesn’t look so bad.

What would that be?

Ask for a ban on the Federal Reserve buying any form of Finacial assets. (Treasury’s,MBS’s, etc).

That would get their attention.

WisRich on January 3, 2013 at 5:29 PM

You’ve got start off with something so scary, that a couple of Trillion in cuts over 10 years doesn’t look so bad.

What would that be?

Ask for a ban on the Federal Reserve buying any form of Finacial assets. (Treasury’s,MBS’s, etc).

That would get their attention.

But that wouldn’t matter. If Obama refuses to sign anything other than a clean debt ceiling increase, then he’s obviously not going to sign that.

(It also wouldn’t make any sense — how do you think the Fed sets the federal funds rate?)

jd3181 on January 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM

After listening to all that from Toomey, WHY are people still blaming John Boehner??? This is the SENATE’s fault, Boehner cannot not do anything as long as Harry Reid is determined to never bring to the Senate floor anything that the House passes first! As long as Reid is determined not to have any Democrat vote on a budget, we won’t have a budget.

rockmom

Because Boehner is to blame. Who is it who keeps allowing continuing resolutions in lieu of a budget because Reid won’t vote on a budget? That would be the House, controlled by Republicans, with Boehner as the head guy.

xblade on January 3, 2013 at 6:25 PM

So far you only seem to be actively advocating for immediate capitulation because “oh what’s the point in delaying the inevitable?” or something.

blink

And he’s right, if that’s his plan. May as well avoid the “Republicans want to kill grandma” talk and go ahead and raise it since that’s what they’re going to do anyway.

xblade on January 3, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Absolutely right Toomey..Need to have a backbone and demand huge spending cuts and possible entitlement reform or default….no more rolling over!!!

sadsushi on January 3, 2013 at 8:11 PM

That was an impressive performance by Toomey. He may be an exception to the rule that conservatives should just avoid MSNBC.

It’s rare to see someone defend conservative principles so well on a media talk show. Most politicians in that position seem focused on selling themselves as a “nice guy,” and avoid saying anything they could be criticized for.

tom on January 3, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Sen. Pat Toomey is one of the great accomplishments of the Tea Party Movement, and after supporting him in ’04 back when Bush was backing Specter, it does my heart good to see him in our dysfunctional deliberate body. For that same reason, some are very angry at him for his vote on the fiscal cliff deal. But as we go into another debt-ceiling fight, he’s one of our better communicators on this issue.

…TALK is CHEAP!He voted to give JugEars Hollywood friends and bundlers a tax break…he can FOAD!

KOOLAID2 on January 3, 2013 at 10:44 PM