Fiscal cliff: Does Boehner have the votes? Update: Boehner vs. Cantor? Update: Boehner to vote yes? Report: House has majority for Senate bill; Update: Bill passes, 257-167

posted at 1:23 pm on January 1, 2013 by Allahpundit

I can’t believe this is what we’re doing on our holiday.

Well said, but don’t forget the punchline: Because the Bush tax cuts will be extended for most earners with next to nothing in offsetting spending cuts, the “deficit reduction deal” technically increases the deficit by nearly $4 trillion over the next decade. Bill Kristol, urging the House to vote yes in the interest of avoiding sequester defense cuts, aptly describes it as a “mess”:

The fiscal cliff deal that the Senate passed early this morning is ridiculous in too many ways to count. There seem to be no figures from the Congressional Budget Office and only “very preliminary” figures from the Joint Tax Committee about the real spending and revenue implications. The two month delay of the sequester will make actual governance even more difficult (how is the Pentagon supposed to plan for the rest of the year?). The sequester delay is funded by a gimmick with retirement savings tax rules that is a caricature of what has become of Washington legislation and policy making. Working Americans making less than $400,000 will be shocked when they find that, contrary to promises from both parties, their taxes are in fact going up (the payroll tax). And we will face another cliff when we hit the debt ceiling and the sequester again in two months.

The deal is a sad commentary on our politics today.

Actually, we face two more cliffs, first the sequester/debt ceiling standoff and then another over the next budget continuing resolution. If you’re serious about fiscal sustainability, the stakes couldn’t be lower. To the extent today’s House vote is interesting, it’s interesting as a type of bread-and-circus: Whether they pass the Senate bill today or pass a marginally less dismal deal in a week or two, the only thing that’s interesting about any of this is the facile political suspense of whether Boehner can muster enough Republican votes, whether Biden can keep Pelosi and House Democrats in line, and what it all means for the next zero-stakes confrontation between Obama and the GOP a few months from now. Ultimately, I think The One is the only player here who had appropriate contempt for the process. He knew nothing important would be achieved so he focused on tax hikes to try to diminish the opposition by driving a wedge in their caucus. In the end, he gave a little on the income threshold in exchange for fracturing House Republicans. Not a bad trade short-term.

Anyway. Does Boehner have the votes? Quite possibly, says the Hill:

To assess party loyalty, The Hill analyzed five controversial bills on fiscal matters that sparked outcry from factions on the right and significant defections from House GOP members: a March 15, 2011 stopgap funding bill; an April 14, 2011 bill that averted a government shutdown; an Aug. 1 roll call on the Budget Control Act; a Nov. 17, 2011 “minibus” appropriations measure; and a Feb. 17, 2012 vote to extend the payroll tax holiday. Republican defections ranged from 54 to 101 on these bills.

Despite the GOP infighting, 92 House Republicans didn’t buck leadership on any on of those measures. This group includes leadership lawmakers, committee and subcommittee chairmen and a surprising number of freshman members. Some of Boehner’s loyal legislators include GOP Reps. Cole, Steven LaTourette (Ohio), Pete King (N.Y.), Darrell Issa (Calif.), Gary Miller (Calif.), Tom Marino (Pa.), Jon Runyan (N.J.) and Steve Stivers (Ohio)…

There are an additional 51 House Republicans who broke ranks on only one of the five votes reviewed by The Hill, including GOP Reps. Bob Goodlatte (Va.), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Tom Latham (Iowa), Steve Scalise (La.) and Frank Wolf (Va.).

That’s 143 gettable votes. Even if he lost 22 of those, he’d still have enough left over to keep his promise not to bring something to the floor that isn’t supported by a majority of House Republicans. The intrigue will come if he’s close to the magic number but not quite there. In that case, he’ll have to choose: Does he bring the bill to the floor anyway, risking a revolt in Thursday’s Speaker election, or does he torpedo the bill even though it likely will have majority support among the entire House? The GOP caucus is meeting as I write this to sound out its members, but reportedly they’re planning to have at least one more meeting today before making a decision on whether to vote. Are you not entertained?

Here’s Tom Cole, a Boehner loyalist, telling MSNBC he’ll definitely vote for the bill. He predicted this morning that a majority of House Republicans will vote yes as well. One other subplot to watch out for: How will Paul Ryan vote? He backed Boehner on Plan B, but with Rubio having voted no last night, the anti-tax ante for 2016 contenders has been upped. Ryan’s dilemma is that he wields much more influence over his caucus colleagues than Rubio does over his, so if he peels off, he could take enough with him to jeopardize the bill. Exit question: Democrats are crowing this morning that, having forced the GOP to accept new tax hikes now, it’ll be easier to make them do so again during the debt-ceiling negotiations. Is that true or will it actually be harder next time after Republicans face a backlash from their base and insist that they already checked the tax box back during the fiscal-cliff compromise?

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Update: Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Update: Sure sounds like we’re not going to have a vote today.

Update: More from Politico:

An overwhelming number of House Republicans in a party meeting Tuesday are calling on their leadership to amend the Senate’s bill to avert the fiscal cliff and send it back to the upper chamber, according to several sources in the meeting…

There is also some regret among Republicans about the party defeating Speaker John Boehner’s “Plan B” before the holidays, which would have raised taxes on millionaires, whereas the bill the Senate passed around 2 a.m. New Year’s Day raises taxes on households making more than $450,000…

Emerging as a stick point among House Republicans is how McConnell and Biden delayed the sequester — automatic spending cuts. The two-month delay is being viewed by House Republicans as inadequate in that it doesn’t reduce spending immediately.

Hope they’re ready for the backlash tomorrow when markets open way down and our fair and balanced press corps gets back to work.

Update: At least we’re getting our money’s worth of political suspense from this ridiculous charade.

If Boehner brings the bill to the floor over Cantor’s opposition, does that guarantee a “Boehner vs. Cantor” election for Speaker on Thursday?

Update: A few commenters are grumbling about my backlash point above. Fact: There will be a backlash tomorrow if this doesn’t pass. It is what it is. And that’s fine — it’s worth driving a hard bargain to get something important done, even at the price of a backlash. Just remind me again what “important” goal will be achieved by forcing a new round of negotiations. What sort of spending cuts do you expect to see here? A trillion dollars over 10 years when we’re running trillion-dollar deficits annually? Even if they got Obama to agree to that, why would you believe that future Congresses would allow those cuts to happen down the line? This entire process is an elaborate charade designed to postpone the ultimate reckoning on entitlement reform, and you’re simply not going to wring serious entitlement reform out of the Democrats given the two parties’ current postures. Obama just won reelection; the Democrats expanded their numbers in the House and Senate; entitlement reform remains depressingly unpopular among the public despite attempts to educate them about the role mandatory spending plays in driving the national debt. House Republicans aren’t going to hold out for weeks on end in the futile hope of revamping Medicare against that backdrop while middle-class voters stew over their new, higher tax brackets. Why risk some of the GOP’s small reserve of political capital on a deal that’s only negligibly less terrible than this one? I understand the “let it burn” strategy, to force the public to fully absorb the cost of big government. I don’t understand this one.

A quote from Philip Klein: “There’s a lot to hate in this deal, no doubt. But any honest assessment of it must grapple with the reality of Obama as president, Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader and $4.5 trillion in automatic tax hikes hitting in the new year. With this in mind, I’d rate the deal as objectively bad, but relatively good.”

Update: House Republicans weigh the backlash factor.

Update: If this is true, Boehner’s goal of 120+ Republican votes seems impossible:

Update: And now some pressure on Boehner from the left as a Democratic aide warns that the Senate bill is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition:

“The House Republicans have two choices: cut their losses and pass the deal now, or else put up a fight they cannot win and pass the same deal a few days now after being further humiliated,” said a Senate Democratic leadership aide.

Another senior Democratic aide said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will not reconsider the bill, which passed by a vote of 89 to 8.

“We’re done,” said the aide.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the GOP caucus will huddle at 5:15 ET. Possible outcomes: Boehner has the votes for the Senate plan and brings it to the floor to try to pass it; Boehner *doesn’t* have the votes but brings it to the floor so that House Republicans can add amendments related to spending cuts; Boehner refuses to bring it to the floor. The first outcome seems unlikely and the third would suffer from terrible optics, so expect JB to choose what’s behind door number two.

Update: Good question.

Update: Sounds like Boehner’s going to give the Senate bill a shot — maybe.

In other words, for the Senate bill to come to the floor, something like 15 Republicans have to oppose amending the bill to include spending cuts. Are there 15 in the entire caucus willing to go on record and do that, even if they’re doing it in the interest of trying to pass the Senate bill now and avert fiscal-cliff aftershocks tomorrow?

Update: The strategy here, I assume, is to use the prospective failure of the amended bill to prove to Republicans that nothing except the Senate bill can pass the House. If they can’t get 218 among their own caucus to support extending the negotiations by demanding cuts, then maybe some GOPers who dislike the Senate bill will hold their noses and vote for it.

Update: Yep, sure sounds like that’s what Boehner has in mind. He’s trying to get the Senate bill through:

Update: A Senate Democratic leadership aide reiterates that a vote to amend the bill in the House is effectively a vote to kill the Senate bill. There’ll be no more fiscal cliff action until the new Congress is seated on Thursday. Quote: “The aide added that House Republicans should not have stepped away from White House negotiations if they needed spending reductions to get the deal.”

Update: DrewM wonders if the spending-cuts amendment might fail simply because some critical mass of conservatives refuses to vote for any bill that doesn’t extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone. In other words, they’ll vote no even on an amended bill because it lets taxes go up on earners who make $450K. The amount of spending cuts attached will be irrelevant. If that’s what they end up doing, it’ll be an awfully dangerous gamble. Once the amended bill fails, you’ll see 100+ Democratic votes flood in for the unamended Senate bill; conceivably you could see nearly the entire Dem caucus vote yes, which means it would take only 40-50 Republicans to vote with them to pass the Biden/McConnell bill with zero cuts. (One of the earlier updates above suggested that that might be feasible.) What that would mean for Boehner’s Speakership, given that he’ll have violated the “majority of the majority” rule to pass it, I don’t know.

Another possibility: What if the amended bill fails and then the up-or-down vote on the Senate bill fails too? After the failure of Plan B and then the failure of two compromise bills, the narrative tomorrow will be that virtually nothing can pass the House.

Update: Sounds like an up-or-down vote might be coming:

Update: Wow. First time I’ve heard this all day:

Update: Just to underscore my point earlier about what a farce this all is, here’s what the House is mulling as their big counteroffer to the Senate on spending:

If there are enough GOP votes to pass the first approach, the House would amend the fiscal cliff bill and send it back to the Senate, the aide said. A second senior GOP leadership aide said that leaders were mulling adding $300 billion in spending cuts to the bill. Details of those cuts weren’t yet available.

That’s $300 billion over 10 years, I take it, or $30 billion annually. Now, go look at this graphic at Zero Hedge and see for yourself how much $30 billion is relative to the annual deficits we’re running these days. This “spending cuts” proposal is a face-saving gesture by the GOP, nothing more. And it still might not pass their own caucus.

Update: Robert Costa says the spending-cuts amendment is in deep trouble:

Can Pelosi deliver 150-170 Democrats? That’s a tall order even for her.

Update: According to GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, the House will vote on the Senate bill sometime tonight. Apparently they couldn’t find 218 Republicans willing to vote for the bill even with a few hundred billion in spending cuts tacked on as an amendment.

Update: I’m honestly shocked:

Remember, the Speaker typically doesn’t vote on bills. He’ll get enough flak from conservative groups if this thing passes with less than a Republican majority that you’d think he wouldn’t want to double down by lending his own vote to the compromise, especially with Cantor publicly opposed to the bill. Either he’s supremely confident that there aren’t 17 Republicans in the caucus willing to block his election as Speaker on Thursday or he’s reached the point where he doesn’t care if they do.

Update: Robert Costa says Boehner’s confident he has 218 from the full House for the Senate bill:

Chuck Todd hears that the vote may come at around 9:30 ET.

Update: Hmmmm:

Update: A footnote from Robert Costa: Allegedly, Boehner will vote only if his vote is needed to get to 218.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the final vote will come at around 11:15 p.m. ET. If you’re sticking around for the end of this charade, you’re a more diligent political junkie than me.

Update: At 11 p.m. ET, it’s a done deal. 257-167, with Democrats providing most of the votes. The Dems split 172-16, Republicans split 85-151. Boehner didn’t come close to satisfying the “majority of the majority” rule, which leaves him on thin ice for Thursday’s Speaker vote. At least he didn’t hide, though: He voted yes tonight, as did Paul Ryan, much to Team Rubio’s delight. Meanwhile, the rest of the leadership team — i.e. Eric Cantor and Kevin McCarthy — voted no, although Cantor waited until the bill had 218 votes to register his meaningless disapproval.

Hard to believe we might have the same leadership in the next Congress as we did for this process, but then not long ago it was also hard to believe we’d have the same leadership in the White House and the Senate in 2013 as we had in 2012. And yet here we are.


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The government needs to reduced by about 35% of its current size.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM

I’m thinking something more on the order of 65% smaller, frankly.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Yeah but right now the goverment officials we elcted ccant even cut the increase in the rate of growth, much less real reductions in the size and scope of programs.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:50 PM

FIRST! Reap it.

But yeah, there is so much trickery going on here that when it all finally unravels there will be no tracing the path of destruction, it will simply implode.

Get ready because it’s comin’.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Glad you’re here, we can finally start this thread…

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Looks like we are witnessing a golbal financial coup, the key linchpin being the crashing of the dollar.

Either that, or a breathtaking fiscal myopia in Washington, unseen since the founding of the nation.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:42 PM

I have all of my retirement cash/accounts in cash for the most part; have been for awhile (several weeks). Am wondering now where to re-invest it that isn’t tied to USD-based securities; problem is much of it is in wife/my 401k’s so options are limited. Need to make some calls. USD is a bad long-term bet at this point.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Report: House says “nom nom shit sandwich”

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

House votes to freeze congressional, federal worker pay, and to overturn Obama’s EO raising pay.

Despite Democratic objections, the bill passed 287 to 129, with 55 Democrats voting with Republicans to approve the measure.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Buck Foehner in the 21st Century

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:35 PM

lmfao.

+1

(classic)

Tim_CA on January 1, 2013 at 9:53 PM

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Better knowing that your payroll taxes are going up tomorrow.

Big kiss!

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 9:53 PM

House votes to freeze congressional, federal worker pay, and to overturn Obama’s EO raising pay.

Despite Democratic objections, the bill passed 287 to 129, with 55 Democrats voting with Republicans to approve the measure.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Thank you for your tireless reporting, young lady. As to this move; here’s some congressional mischief I can get behind.

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Greece we are soon to be joining you!

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Glad you’re here, we can finally start this thread…

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 9:50 PM

I like to get started early.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Resist We Much

You’re a treasure; always love to read your posts and your blog. Glad you’re here.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Buck Foehner in the 21st Century

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Buck Dodgers in the 24th and 1/2 century!

X-D

MelonCollie on January 1, 2013 at 9:56 PM

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Super. Massive hangover just going away now.

How was your non-denominational winter solstice gluten-free holiday celebration that just happened to coincide with December 25th?

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 9:56 PM

I have all of my retirement cash/accounts in cash for the most part; have been for awhile (several weeks). Am wondering now where to re-invest it that isn’t tied to USD-based securities; problem is much of it is in wife/my 401k’s so options are limited. Need to make some calls. USD is a bad long-term bet at this point.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

USD is OK for now because Spain is going to crash.

Hold cash for a bit…

Once interest rates start climbing in America, go hard into good land. Things that can’t evaporate. But do it in a state where they won’t seize it from you with property taxes you can’t afford.

Gold is also going to soar before this is over, before it is confiscated a la FDR, and I think that this has to happen, because the Chinese will call the shots on it.

Basically, we have time to do some nice triple gainers before hitting the empty pool bottom.

Do not get caught holding USD once it crashes hard. But short term, as long as Europe is crashing harder, there’s a good opportunity to let the fiscal pain spread until land price fall because people are losing their land… then buy and hold until the smoke clears from the biggest financial wreck in history.

But you will have to be quick.

The time between the European crash and the American crash will be short.

That’s my take.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

WSJ Coverage

The Fiscal Cliff

http://stream.wsj.com/story/the-fiscal-cliff/SS-2-87944/

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Lucky for us those’s R’s have our backs, right?

Bmore on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Obama is about to make 85% of the Bush tax cuts permanent. He also extended Bush’s warrantless wiretap program another 5 years.

Why, it was almost yesterday you guys were against all that!

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Umm.. Rubio is not a very deep thinker. I’d vote for him with my nose held tightly just out of amusement because what comes around goes around for the Dems. (Re. Obama).

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:42 PM

The democrat bench this time is not going to be as strong in 2016, unless someone comes out of no where. I am not frightened of Hillary unlike some Republicans. She has been tested in elections already and has proved to be a really boring speaker.

It will be hard for any democrat to follow in the foot steps of a god…

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 9:59 PM

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Great, thanks!

And rot in hell, you f*ck! :)

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:59 PM

If anyone feels the need to throw up…

… turn on C-SPAN.

Seven Percent Solution on January 1, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Obama is about to make 85% of the Bush tax cuts permanent. He also extended Bush’s warrantless wiretap program another 5 years.

Why, it was almost yesterday you guys were against all that!

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Ah, yeah – good times, good times…

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Once interest rates start climbing in America, go hard into good land. Things that can’t evaporate. But do it in a state where they won’t seize it from you with property taxes you can’t afford.

I would refine it…

Good, usable farmland and also investment property.

Rent houses. Apartments in better parts of town so that dealing with tenants won’t be as MUCH of a nightmare.

It’s going to get ugly all around, but you’d be better off dealing with people who will retain some semblances of decent upbringing when the Depression II hits, as opposed to people who already have lost all morals and civic mores.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 10:02 PM

The democrat bench this time is not going to be as strong in 2016, unless someone comes out of no where. I am not frightened of Hillary unlike some Republicans. She has been tested in elections already and has proved to be a really boring speaker.

It will be hard for any democrat to follow in the foot steps of a god…

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Have you read Rubio’s twitter feed?? I’m on it for giggles. Not a deep thinker. And my main fear is that fluffy Republican campaigns about nothing won’t be treated in the same fawning, cultish manner as the Democratic ones.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 10:03 PM

I just finished a wonderful dinner so I can’t watch Nancy Pelosi gabble about anything for fear of losing it.

Rovin on January 1, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Gitmo is still open, right, and warrantless surveillance is being expanded? Good, I’m just glad that evil Nazi Dubya is gone, his police state predilections were pretty creepy.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:03 PM

How was your non-denominational winter solstice gluten-free holiday celebration that just happened to coincide with December 25th?

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 9:56 PM

i’m still reeling. how was your pretend-religious fete?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Obama gave the Hollywood rich a big break.

Obama gave the very rich a big break.

Tom Harkin is livid and voted against it.

Trumka is livid and about to explode.

Starve the Looters, always.

Schadenfreude on January 1, 2013 at 10:04 PM

I have voted in my last election. It doesn’t matter who you vote for, what the candidate says they support, in the end, it’s the tax and spend dems that win every time! A plague on all their houses.

polarglen on January 1, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Obama is about to make 85% of the Bush tax cuts permanent. He also extended Bush’s warrantless wiretap program another 5 years.

Why, it was almost yesterday you guys were against all that!

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Obama is also whacking people left and right using drones. No arrest, no lawyer, no trial, just a missile to the head. Actually it is one of the few things I actually agree with Obama on. Remember when the progressives freaked over putting panties on peoples head during the Bush years…but now they support aerial termination of people.

Go figure…That is what happens when you are blinded by faith.

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Charlie Rangel. Ugh. It’s a real stomach-turner tonight. Between Rangel and Pelosi, I am glad it is late on the East Coast. I ate dinner hours ago – no chance of spoiling my meal.

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Gitmo is still open, right, and warrantless surveillance is being expanded? Good, I’m just glad that evil Nazi Dubya is gone, his police state predilections were pretty creepy.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Drone strikes have increased tenfold, and extraordinary rendition is still used.

You’re right – I’m glad the adults are in charge now; so much has changed.

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Why, it was almost yesterday you guys were against all that!

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM

You assume they stand for anything, have a spine and are free people.

They are sheeple at best, plankton de rigeur. Otherwise they wouldn’t be for tyrannies.

Schadenfreude on January 1, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM

CSPAN?

BallisticBob on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

It’s going to get ugly all around, but you’d be better off dealing with people who will retain some semblances of decent upbringing when the Depression II hits, as opposed to people who already have lost all morals and civic mores.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 10:02 PM

The hard part is going to be when instead of realizing we’re all in this together, and trying to retain personal integrity en masse while having massive problems trying to make ends meet… and all come of it together, due to the “taker” mentality, the government will start ordering around all the producers and taking things at gunpoint to give to the takers who voted this all in.

Remember, even FDR sent goons to farms to force farmers to slaughter whole herds of swine and let them rot, in his attempt at price controls.

How much more lawless is 0bama, and how much more civicly ignorant and entitled is the current taker segmanet of our population who deserves a check in the mail, generation after generation, and have leftist politicians feeding that sloth.

Bad times coming, folks.

Tonight is a major step toward anarchy, suffering and death in America.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

LoopyHoles??!!

Chris Barton ‏@jcbarton1

Eight Corporate Subsidies in the Fiscal Cliff Bill, From Goldman Sachs to Disney to NASCAR http://bit.ly/UkxWDS
===============================================

Tuesday, January 1, 2013
Eight Corporate Subsidies in the Fiscal Cliff Bill, From Goldman Sachs to Disney to NASCAR

Matt Stoller is a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute. You can follow him at http://www.twitter.com/matthewstoller.

Throughout the months of November and December, a steady stream of corporate CEOs flowed in and out of the White House to discuss the impending fiscal cliff. Many of them, such as Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, would then publicly come out and talk about how modest increases of tax rates on the wealthy were reasonable in order to deal with the deficit problem. What wasn’t mentioned is what these leaders wanted, which is what’s known as “tax extenders”, or roughly $205B of tax breaks for corporations. With such a banal name, and boring and difficult to read line items in the bill, few political operatives have bothered to pay attention to this part of the bill. But it is critical to understanding what is going on.

The negotiations over the fiscal cliff involve more than the Democrats, Republicans, the middle class and the wealthy. The corporate sector is here in force as well. One of the core shifts in the Reagan era was the convergence of wealthy individuals who wanted to pay less in taxes – many from the growing South – with corporations that wanted tax breaks. Previously, these groups fought over the pie, because the idea of endless deficits did not make sense. Once Reagan figured out how to finance yawning deficits, the GOP was able to wield the corporate sector and the new sun state wealthy into one force, epitomized today by Grover Norquist. What Obama is (sort of) trying to do is split this coalition, and the extenders are the carrot he’s dangling in front of the corporate sector to do it.

Most tax credits drop straight to the bottom line – it’s why companies like Enron considered its tax compliance section a “profit center”. A few hundred billion dollars of tax expenditures is a major carrot to offer. Surely, a modest hike in income taxes for people who make more than $400k in income and stupid enough not to take that money in capital gain would be worth trading off for the few hundred billion dollars in corporate pork. This is what the fiscal cliff is about – who gets the money. And by leaving out the corporate sector, nearly anyone who talks about this debate is leaving out a key negotiating partner.

So without further ado, here are eight corporate subsidies in the fiscal cliff bill that you haven’t heard of.

1) Help out NASCAR – Sec 312 extends the “seven year recovery period for motorsports entertainment complex property”, which is to say it allows anyone who builds a racetrack and associated facilities to get tax breaks on it. This one was projected to cost $43 million over two years.

2) A hundred million or so for Railroads – Sec. 306 provides tax credits to certain railroads for maintaining their tracks. It’s unclear why private businesses should be compensated for their costs of doing business. This is worth roughly $165 million a year.

3) Disney’s Gotta Eat – Sec. 317 is “Extension of special expensing rules for certain film and television productions”. It’s a relatively straightforward subsidy to Hollywood studios, and according to the Joint Tax Committee, was projected to cost $150m for 2010 and 2011.

4) Help a brother mining company out – Sec. 307 and Sec. 316 offer tax incentives for miners to buy safety equipment and train their employees on mine safety. Taxpayers shouldn’t have to bribe mining companies to not kill their workers.

5) Subsidies for Goldman Sachs Headquarters – Sec. 328 extends “tax exempt financing for York Liberty Zone,” which was a program to provide post-9/11 recovery funds. Rather than going to small businesses affected, however, this was, according to Bloomberg, “little more than a subsidy for fancy Manhattan apartments and office towers for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America Corp.” Michael Bloomberg himself actually thought the program was excessive, so that’s saying something. According to David Cay Johnston’s The Fine Print, Goldman got $1.6 billion in tax free financing for its new massive headquarters through Liberty Bonds.

6) $9B Off-shore financing loophole for banks – Sec. 322 is an “Extension of the Active Financing Exception to Subpart F.” Very few tax loopholes have a trade association, but this one does. This strangely worded provision basically allows American corporations such as banks and manufactures to engage in certain lending practices and not pay taxes on income earned from it. According to this Washington Post piece, supporters of the bill include GE, Caterpillar, and JP Morgan. Steve Elmendorf, super-lobbyist, has been paid $80,000 in 2012 alone to lobby on the “Active Financing Working Group.”

7) Tax credits for foreign subsidiaries – Sec. 323 is an extension of the “Look-through treatment of payments between related CFCs under foreign personal holding company income rules.” This gibberish sounding provision cost $1.5 billion from 2010 and 2011, and the US Chamber loves it. It’s a provision that allows US multinationals to not pay taxes on income earned by companies they own abroad.

8) Bonus Depreciation, R&D Tax Credit – These are well-known corporate boondoggles. The research tax credit was projected to cost $8B for 2010 and 2011, and the depreciation provisions were projected to cost about $110B for those two years, with some of that made up in later years.

Conveniently, the Joint Committee on Taxation in 2010 did an analysis of what many of these extenders cost. You can find that report here.

Enjoy!
Read more at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/01/eight-corporate-subsidies-in-the-fiscal-cliff-bill-from-goldman-sachs-to-disney-to-nascar.html#pbBqjshrtib2FgPy.99

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/01/eight-corporate-subsidies-in-the-fiscal-cliff-bill-from-goldman-sachs-to-disney-to-nascar.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Go figure…That is what happens when you are blinded by faith.

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Indeed. I have yet to see an Obama supporter question the litany of Bush policies being extended and expanded.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

And rot in hell, you f*ck! :)

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:59 PM

aww, sweetie, i love you too.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

i’m still reeling. how was your pretend-religious fete?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Advent was wonderful, thanks for asking. Christmas Eve day, and Christmas day, were better than ever. And, (since it’s a season,) my family, friends and I get to enjoy it until January 6th.

Not pretend, the way we do it. We live it.

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Obama is also whacking people left and right using drones. No arrest, no lawyer, no trial, just a missile to the head. Actually it is one of the few things I actually agree with Obama on. Remember when the progressives freaked over putting panties on peoples head during the Bush years…but now they support aerial termination of people.

Go figure…That is what happens when you are blinded by faith.

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Beginning today, drone use has been massively legalized across America.

FAA is on track to merge drone use and all air traffic by 2015.

At the same time, huge advances in miniaturization have been made in the last 2-3 years.

Terminator is just over the event horizon…. no tinfoil.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Super. Massive hangover just going away now.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Advil was my friend this morning.

Tim_CA on January 1, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Hopefully the gov will take everything from everyone. They can have it all.

Bmore on January 1, 2013 at 10:11 PM

BallisticBob on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Yes, where we get to see the process, warts and all.

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

Yeah, the problem is – and we knew it at the time – Dems didn’t really give a crap about drones, rendition, water-boarding, troop deaths, Gitmo, Bush tax cuts – those were just opportunities for outrageous outrage, whatever.

Shoe on the other foot? No problem. Just like the homeless, hurricane victims, poverty, war, etc. To them it only matters who is in power and who is not, and their complaints are structured accordingly.

Hence the ongoing joke about ‘rediscovering the homeless’ and such when a Republican gets into office. The homeless – and all the rest of those topics, and more, including children killed in a high profile incident – are simply props to be pulled out when convenient and put away when not.

Civilized people with ethics and morals would consider that poor behavior. Libs consider it another day in the struggle; as such, they win more often than not, because we continue to expect them to behave as civilized people. They are not, and will not.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

LoopyHoles??

Chris Barton ‏@jcbarton1

Eight Corporate Subsidies in the Fiscal Cliff Bill, From Goldman Sachs to Disney to NASCAR http://bit.ly/UkxWDS
===============================================

Tuesday, January 1, 2013
Eight Corporate Subsidies in the Fiscal Cliff Bill, From Goldman Sachs to Disney to NASCAR

Matt Stoller is a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute. You can follow him at http://www.twitter.com/matthewstoller.
****************************************************

Throughout the months of November and December, a steady stream of corporate CEOs flowed in and out of the White House to discuss the impending fiscal cliff. Many of them, such as Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, would then publicly come out and talk about how modest increases of tax rates on the wealthy were reasonable in order to deal with the deficit problem. What wasn’t mentioned is what these leaders wanted, which is what’s known as “tax extenders”, or roughly $205B of tax breaks for corporations. With such a banal name, and boring and difficult to read line items in the bill, few political operatives have bothered to pay attention to this part of the bill. But it is critical to understanding what is going on.

The negotiations over the fiscal cliff involve more than the Democrats, Republicans, the middle class and the wealthy. The corporate sector is here in force as well. One of the core shifts in the Reagan era was the convergence of wealthy individuals who wanted to pay less in taxes – many from the growing South – with corporations that wanted tax breaks. Previously, these groups fought over the pie, because the idea of endless deficits did not make sense. Once Reagan figured out how to finance yawning deficits, the GOP was able to wield the corporate sector and the new sun state wealthy into one force, epitomized today by Grover Norquist. What Obama is (sort of) trying to do is split this coalition, and the extenders are the carrot he’s dangling in front of the corporate sector to do it.

Most tax credits drop straight to the bottom line – it’s why companies like Enron considered its tax compliance section a “profit center”. A few hundred billion dollars of tax expenditures is a major carrot to offer. Surely, a modest hike in income taxes for people who make more than $400k in income and stupid enough not to take that money in capital gain would be worth trading off for the few hundred billion dollars in corporate pork. This is what the fiscal cliff is about – who gets the money. And by leaving out the corporate sector, nearly anyone who talks about this debate is leaving out a key negotiating partner.

So without further ado, here are eight corporate subsidies in the fiscal cliff bill that you haven’t heard of.

1) Help out NASCAR – Sec 312 extends the “seven year recovery period for motorsports entertainment complex property”, which is to say it allows anyone who builds a racetrack and associated facilities to get tax breaks on it. This one was projected to cost $43 million over two years.

2) A hundred million or so for Railroads – Sec. 306 provides tax credits to certain railroads for maintaining their tracks. It’s unclear why private businesses should be compensated for their costs of doing business. This is worth roughly $165 million a year.

3) Disney’s Gotta Eat – Sec. 317 is “Extension of special expensing rules for certain film and television productions”. It’s a relatively straightforward subsidy to Hollywood studios, and according to the Joint Tax Committee, was projected to cost $150m for 2010 and 2011.

4) Help a brother mining company out – Sec. 307 and Sec. 316 offer tax incentives for miners to buy safety equipment and train their employees on mine safety. Taxpayers shouldn’t have to bribe mining companies to not kill their workers.

5) Subsidies for Goldman Sachs Headquarters – Sec. 328 extends “tax exempt financing for York Liberty Zone,” which was a program to provide post-9/11 recovery funds. Rather than going to small businesses affected, however, this was, according to Bloomberg, “little more than a subsidy for fancy Manhattan apartments and office towers for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America Corp.” Michael Bloomberg himself actually thought the program was excessive, so that’s saying something. According to David Cay Johnston’s The Fine Print, Goldman got $1.6 billion in tax free financing for its new massive headquarters through Liberty Bonds.

6) $9B Off-shore financing loophole for banks – Sec. 322 is an “Extension of the Active Financing Exception to Subpart F.” Very few tax loopholes have a trade association, but this one does. This strangely worded provision basically allows American corporations such as banks and manufactures to engage in certain lending practices and not pay taxes on income earned from it. According to this Washington Post piece, supporters of the bill include GE, Caterpillar, and JP Morgan. Steve Elmendorf, super-lobbyist, has been paid $80,000 in 2012 alone to lobby on the “Active Financing Working Group.”

7) Tax credits for foreign subsidiaries – Sec. 323 is an extension of the “Look-through treatment of payments between related CFCs under foreign personal holding company income rules.” This gibberish sounding provision cost $1.5 billion from 2010 and 2011, and the US Chamber loves it. It’s a provision that allows US multinationals to not pay taxes on income earned by companies they own abroad.

8) Bonus Depreciation, R&D Tax Credit – These are well-known corporate boondoggles. The research tax credit was projected to cost $8B for 2010 and 2011, and the depreciation provisions were projected to cost about $110B for those two years, with some of that made up in later years.

Conveniently, the Joint Committee on Taxation in 2010 did an analysis of what many of these extenders cost. You can find that report here.

Enjoy!
Read more at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/01/eight-corporate-subsidies-in-the-fiscal-cliff-bill-from-goldman-sachs-to-disney-to-nascar.html#pbBqjshrtib2FgPy.99

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

i’m still reeling. how was your pretend-religious fete?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:04 PM

We celebrated HannuKwansMasAdan. Lit a menorah, gave thanks to the Harvest Queen, sang “Oh Holy Night” and then threw fire-bombs at the house of a local Jewish family.

Next year we’ll all dress as golden Buddhas and paint pentagrams on the walls with human blood.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

Advil was my friend this morning.

Tim_CA on January 1, 2013 at 10:11 PM

I’d save the alcohol for bartering. It’ll come in handy down the road.

TxAnn56 on January 1, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Advil was my friend this morning.

Tim_CA on January 1, 2013 at 10:11 PM

I think I see the problem. You stopped drinking didn’t you?

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 10:15 PM

aww, sweetie, i love you too.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Not as much as I love you, I promise. :)

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 10:15 PM

I’d save the alcohol for bartering. It’ll come in handy down the road.

TxAnn56 on January 1, 2013 at 10:14 PM

And here’s me, stocking up on several cases of tequila in storage. Hmmm.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Arrogance will get all. You will recall this when it happens.

Schadenfreude on January 1, 2013 at 10:17 PM

2) A hundred million or so for Railroads – Sec. 306 provides tax credits to certain railroads for maintaining their tracks. It’s unclear why private businesses should be compensated for their costs of doing business. This is worth roughly $165 million a year.

Ah, and there’s the payoff (if only one) for Buffett.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 10:18 PM

GOP……DEAD!

Dead
Dead
Dead

Prove to me there is any opposition or difference in this party versus the Progressives in the real Democrat party?

Dead
Dead
Dead

PappyD61 on January 1, 2013 at 10:18 PM

‘Toon of the Day: You Come Back Here, You Little Shit!

Massrighty & Midas: Thanks. I’m glad to be here, too…I think. :-)

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 10:19 PM

Have you read Rubio’s twitter feed?? I’m on it for giggles. Not a deep thinker. And my main fear is that fluffy Republican campaigns about nothing won’t be treated in the same fawning, cultish manner as the Democratic ones.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 10:03 PM

(1) He is probably smarter than many of the GOP House leaders for what that is worth

(2) He is from Florida. Unlike Romney at least he comes from a useful state. If we are going to get a airhead at least get one who comes from a state that he actually might win and is a big battle ground state.

(3) He speaks Spanish and might make a dent in the Latino vote.

(4) He is more charismatic than the crop of democrats who we know right will run in 2016 (Once again that does not say much).

I am not completely sold on Rubio. His Bush connections scare me somewhat (last thing we need is a return of the Bush White House team), but he still has plenty of chances to impress between now and the beginning of the 2016 election cycle. I say give him a chance to grow…and see what happens.

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 10:19 PM

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

squidward on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Business Layoffs and closures since you re-installed Dear Leader = 94,876

New grade.

H

Del Dolemonte on January 1, 2013 at 10:20 PM

We celebrated HannuKwansMasAdan. Lit a menorah, gave thanks to the Harvest Queen, sang “Oh Holy Night” and then threw fire-bombs at the house of a local Jewish family.

Next year we’ll all dress as golden Buddhas and paint pentagrams on the walls with human blood.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

kicking the mescaline habit would be a fine new year’s resolution.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:21 PM

New grade.

H

Del Dolemonte on January 1, 2013 at 10:20 PM

grading comments is your red stapler.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Great find. You’re absolutely right about that.

Robert_Paulson on January 1, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

kicking the mescaline habit would be a fine new year’s resolution.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Looks like he picked the wrong week to quit mescaline!

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 10:25 PM

GOP……DEAD!

Dead
Dead
Dead

Prove to me there is any opposition or difference in this party versus the Progressives in the real Democrat party?

Dead
Dead
Dead

PappyD61 on January 1, 2013 at 10:18 PM

PappyD61:

Bring out your Politically Dead……Bring Out Your Dead…..
(sarc):)

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:26 PM

grading comments is your red stapler.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:23 PM

You should be happy he gave you an H. You got a Q in that UK gun ban thread where you self-immolated.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 10:27 PM

how’s everyone’s new year going so far?

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 9:51 PM

What’s wrong with the bill, sesqui?

Do you want it to punt even further on defense cuts, the debt ceiling and entitlement cuts?

Do you want it to give more tax credits for wind energy?

Do you wish it stole all of an estate, instead of exempting the first 5 million dollars and change?

Is your main beef that the rate increases only start at $400,000 instead of the mythical $250,000 that everyone seems so caught up on?

Honestly, what about the bill is troublesome to you? Your side, apparently, has all the momentum. You know that if the deal falls apart, the GOP will be blamed.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 10:28 PM

New grade.

H

Del Dolemonte on January 1, 2013 at 10:20 PM

grading comments is your red stapler.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Translation: “Since I can’t refute actual statistical Facts, all I can do is Go Alinsky and staple the messenger!”

A+

Del Dolemonte on January 1, 2013 at 10:29 PM

kicking the mescaline habit would be a fine new year’s resolution.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Let me know how that works out for you, though mescaline can help with depression…are you sure you want to take that step?

Me, I’m offering to cut back on my BBQ rib intake; I’ll keep you posted on the progress.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:29 PM

1) He is probably smarter than many of the GOP House leaders for what that is worth

Everyone is smarter than Boehner…

(2) He is from Florida. Unlike Romney at least he comes from a useful state. If we are going to get a airhead at least get one who comes from a state that he actually might win and is a big battle ground state.

Romney has connections to MI and NH.. didn’t help much. Yes, Rubio will probably win FL, but really the fact that we need help winning a southern Republican state should tell you something.

(3) He speaks Spanish and might make a dent in the Latino vote.

Wrong type of Latino. Mexican Americans don’t like Cuban Americans because of immigration policy.. Much easier for a Cuban to immigrate due to Castro.

(4) He is more charismatic than the crop of democrats who we know right will run in 2016 (Once again that does not say much).

As is everyone…

I am not completely sold on Rubio. His Bush connections scare me somewhat (last thing we need is a return of the Bush White House team), but he still has plenty of chances to impress between now and the beginning of the 2016 election cycle. I say give him a chance to grow…and see what happens.

Prefer utter despair…. Let’s not get our hopes up again like with Romney.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Boehner gotta go

Norwegian on January 1, 2013 at 10:30 PM

Del Dolemonte on January 1, 2013 at 10:20 PM

grading comments is your red stapler.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:23 PM

You do understand that Del, and Bishop, are well-liked here, and you are not, don’t you?

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 10:31 PM

The GOP was elected to stop the Health Care Bill, the people hated it, they were counting on them..they failed. The GOP was elected to get spending under control, they failed at the message. I think we can safely say that the GOP has put themselves out of commission for a few decades. The weird thing is that the wealthy could care less, there are not enough of them to make a difference anyway at the ballot box. It is the base that cares, it is about principle.

The only silver lining in all of this that I see, is that we can freely talk about the hatred for the party most of us are forced to vote for. That’s pretty cool huh? The dems just follow their leaders in lock step, generally with no real understanding of why they follow.

shar61 on January 1, 2013 at 10:32 PM

Next year we’ll all dress as golden Buddhas and paint pentagrams on the walls with human blood.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 10:13 PM

Bishop:

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh count me in,my Specially Trained Spec. Ops Commando Crack Canadian Beavers,

will haul LSD/MagicMushRoom Jiuce,will dump said
mixture into the JournalOlisters Coffee pots/
watercoolers!
(snark)

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:32 PM

I’m glad to be here, too…I think. :-)

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 10:19 PM

The only consolation is that England is still worse off, along with all of Europe.

I’m very glad you are here, HA and in the USSA.

You are needed – HAL attacked you in QotD. Can’t wait for your reply.

Schadenfreude on January 1, 2013 at 10:33 PM

Buck Foehner in the 21st Century

cane_loader

Sounds like a job for libfreeordie.

xblade on January 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM

As an observer of politics. As someone who watches and analyzes. I’m still amazed at some in this thread telling those with principles to follow the GOP leaderships path to destruction.

That it’s the art of compromise.

That it’s the best they can do.

For years they’ve said the same thing, and here we are. Why do they say it, and why do so many listen? Despite the empirical data that shows we are headed towards disaster because of this “art of compromies.”

The same people on this thread that were telling us to accept the original fiscal cliff “deal” are telling us the same thing now. Why?

At what point do they actually look at what’s going on and say enough?

Since 2006 since I’ve been telling you they would betray you, as they always have. Imagine if the GOP had started following principles back then? Where would we be? In a better place than we are now. And what are Terrye, Allahpundit, and the other “pragmatics” doing now? Telling you to continue to do the very things that have destroyed your party, while cursing out the people that were sent to try and save the nation.

And they claim their intent is to save the country. How? By doing the same things that got us here. Yes…really.

It’s an amazing spectacle.

I wonder if Boehner and the GOP will once again sacrifice conservatives, and move left to get the support of the socialists. What do you think? Ha ha

The GOP will betray you

True_King on January 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM

I’m with you Allah.
Keep the Updates going.
I need all the info from all the sources you’ve got!

athenadelphi on January 1, 2013 at 10:39 PM

PS: Cantor running for house leader?

athenadelphi on January 1, 2013 at 10:40 PM

The only silver lining in all of this that I see, is that we can freely talk about the hatred for the party most of us are forced to vote for. That’s pretty cool huh? The dems just follow their leaders in lock step, generally with no real understanding of why they follow.

shar61 on January 1, 2013 at 10:32 PM

No one ever made you vote for a republicrat. You did that yourself.
LP.org

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 10:40 PM

Boehner number 218 to pass?

athenadelphi on January 1, 2013 at 10:41 PM

PS: Cantor running for house leader?

athenadelphi on January 1, 2013 at 10:40 PM

Meet the new boss, same as they ole boss…

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Prefer utter despair…. Let’s not get our hopes up again like with Romney.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 10:29 PM

It’s times like these when it pays off to be an eternal pessimist. Repeat after me: Blessed are those who expect nothing for they shall not be disappointed.

TxAnn56 on January 1, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Time to vote…!

Seven Percent Solution on January 1, 2013 at 10:43 PM

The GOP will betray you

True_King on January 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM

I have been saying the same thing for years. Been on this forum since the first day it was opened. There may have been a convert or two to have left the republicrats, but most of them just fall in line.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 10:44 PM

Since 2006 since I’ve been telling you they would betray you, as they always have. Imagine if the GOP had started following principles back then? Where would we be? In a better place than we are now. And what are Terrye, Allahpundit, and the other “pragmatics” doing now? Telling you to continue to do the very things that have destroyed your party, while cursing out the people that were sent to try and save the nation.

And they claim their intent is to save the country. How? By doing the same things that got us here. Yes…really.

It’s an amazing spectacle.

I wonder if Boehner and the GOP will once again sacrifice conservatives, and move left to get the support of the socialists. What do you think? Ha ha

The GOP will betray you

True_King on January 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM

All people like you have been doing since 2006 is peeling people off, voting for losers like Ron Paul, costing us elections, which backs us into a corner where we have zero leverage and have to take whatever the Dems shove down our throats.

Let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and you end up with our current situation of Obamacare, fiscal cliffs and unsustainable entitlements.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 10:44 PM

Betrayal

Wino on January 1, 2013 at 10:46 PM

Michelle Malkin ‏@michellemalkin

And here we go…House 15 minute final passage vote starts now…
Expand

Gingotts on January 1, 2013 at 10:46 PM

Tea Party Republicans are scared of Obama.

This one is going to pass easily.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 10:49 PM

If I could not vote against this crap sandwich, even if it means losing my job, I could never, ever look at my daughter in the eye again when asked for moral guidance.

sybilll on January 1, 2013 at 10:50 PM

All people like you have been doing since 2006 is peeling people off, voting for losers like Ron Paul, costing us elections, which backs us into a corner where we have zero leverage and have to take whatever the Dems shove down our throats.

LOL! You blame US because the GOP machine keeps putting “democrat lites” up and we refuse to compromise? Well, you’re about to get another “compromise” like you ask us to do. Are you starting to figure out why we don’t compromise anymore, and therefore refuse to back the machine candidate?

Wino on January 1, 2013 at 10:50 PM

@frankthorpNBC tweeted:
frankthorpNBC
@SpeakerBoehner has voted FOR the Senate-passed #fiscalcliff legislation.

5 mins ago from twitter.com by editor

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:53 PM

LOL! You blame US because the GOP machine keeps putting “democrat lites” up and we refuse to compromise? Well, you’re about to get another “compromise” like you ask us to do. Are you starting to figure out why we don’t compromise anymore, and therefore refuse to back the machine candidate?

Wino on January 1, 2013 at 10:50 PM

Yup, actually, I do. What has your ‘refusal to compromise’ gotten us?

Name a policy victory we’ve achieved since 2006 that was borne from your ‘refusal to compromise.’

Now compare that with crushing defeats in 06, 08, and 2012. Our Senate is Democrat-dominated. Obama is president until January of 2017. We’re not going to get rid of Obamacare. What victories do we have? The “Teanami” in 2010 didn’t get us any lasting policy victories. All we have is Scott Walker and his victories against Big Labor in WI. What else have your vaunted ‘principles’ gotten us, Wino?

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 10:54 PM

All people like you have been doing since 2006 is peeling people off, voting for losers like Ron Paul, costing us elections, which backs us into a corner where we have zero leverage and have to take whatever the Dems shove down our throats.

Let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and you end up with our current situation of Obamacare, fiscal cliffs and unsustainable entitlements.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 10:44 PM

I’m not a Ron Paul supporter.

I’m simply here to tell you whats going to happen. And then to openly wonder why people like yourself blame those that want to work to get rid of the corruption.

You’ve backed yourselves into a corner. This is a situation of your own making. You chose your leadership, you chose who to follow, not I or anyone else.

Take ownership of this. You continue to do the same thing over and over, and it continually fails. Your leadership betrays the Constitution. And you keep going back.

YOU are the failure. YOU created this. YOU continue to allow this corruption. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE YOU SUPPORT THE CONTINUED DESTRUCTION OF YOUR COUNTRY!!!

Get off your pragmatic high horse.

The GOP will betray you

True_King on January 1, 2013 at 10:55 PM

All people like you have been doing since 2006 is peeling people off, voting for losers like Ron Paul, costing us elections, which backs us into a corner where we have zero leverage and have to take whatever the Dems shove down our throats.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 10:44 PM

Umm….. How have they cost you elections? It’s not their fault that the Republican party has no spine. Ron Paul may not be a perfect politician but he isn’t a wimp like Boehner.

cjv209 on January 1, 2013 at 10:55 PM

Umm.. Barry and friends have no desire to compromise. They won!! In a just world, we’d be able to repay the favor when we won and really screw them over, but the world isn’t just.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 10:57 PM

Remember all that money you gave to the RNC?

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 10:57 PM

I bid you a fond farewell for now. I am going back to watching dogs on skateboards. Screw all of this.

sybilll on January 1, 2013 at 10:58 PM

It’s done. Passed easily with 80 R votes!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 10:58 PM

What’s wrong with the bill, sesqui?

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 10:28 PM

well, it stops just a hair short of tying the gop to the back of a toyota hilux and dragging it around dc, so it’s not bad.

sesquipedalian on January 1, 2013 at 10:58 PM

FOX LIVE

http://video.foxnews.com/video-live-streaming.html?video_id=1155606982001

VIA:
====

http://stream.wsj.com/story/the-fiscal-cliff/SS-2-87944/

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:58 PM

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 10:59 PM

Yahoo! says It passed?

BallisticBob on January 1, 2013 at 10:59 PM

The Republican party is absolutely dead. It’s over. Cow manure has more value to this so called republic than does the GOP.

Boehner is a freaking worthless… I have no words.

Seriously…. Obama and the Dems never make me mad. They sicken me… but heck.. you can’t blame Marxists for acting like Marxists and for taking advantage of spineless weasels. They’d be stupid not to.

JellyToast on January 1, 2013 at 10:59 PM

Why are there so many whiners here? Do people really believe Obama can be forced into making huge cuts if the GOP “just stands its ground?” Only a child throwing a tantrum would think that. I say make the middle class tax cuts permanent to get that club out of Obama’s hand.

pearson on January 1, 2013 at 11:00 PM

I am going back to watching dogs on skateboards

And thus the reason why we have squish Republicans…people never get mad enough to do anything but go back to watching tv reruns.

Way to go Tea Party!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 11:00 PM

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