Fiscal cliff: Does Boehner have the votes? Update: Boehner vs. Cantor? Update: Boehner to vote yes? Report: House has majority for Senate bill; Update: Bill passes, 257-167

posted at 1:23 pm on January 1, 2013 by Allahpundit

I can’t believe this is what we’re doing on our holiday.

Well said, but don’t forget the punchline: Because the Bush tax cuts will be extended for most earners with next to nothing in offsetting spending cuts, the “deficit reduction deal” technically increases the deficit by nearly $4 trillion over the next decade. Bill Kristol, urging the House to vote yes in the interest of avoiding sequester defense cuts, aptly describes it as a “mess”:

The fiscal cliff deal that the Senate passed early this morning is ridiculous in too many ways to count. There seem to be no figures from the Congressional Budget Office and only “very preliminary” figures from the Joint Tax Committee about the real spending and revenue implications. The two month delay of the sequester will make actual governance even more difficult (how is the Pentagon supposed to plan for the rest of the year?). The sequester delay is funded by a gimmick with retirement savings tax rules that is a caricature of what has become of Washington legislation and policy making. Working Americans making less than $400,000 will be shocked when they find that, contrary to promises from both parties, their taxes are in fact going up (the payroll tax). And we will face another cliff when we hit the debt ceiling and the sequester again in two months.

The deal is a sad commentary on our politics today.

Actually, we face two more cliffs, first the sequester/debt ceiling standoff and then another over the next budget continuing resolution. If you’re serious about fiscal sustainability, the stakes couldn’t be lower. To the extent today’s House vote is interesting, it’s interesting as a type of bread-and-circus: Whether they pass the Senate bill today or pass a marginally less dismal deal in a week or two, the only thing that’s interesting about any of this is the facile political suspense of whether Boehner can muster enough Republican votes, whether Biden can keep Pelosi and House Democrats in line, and what it all means for the next zero-stakes confrontation between Obama and the GOP a few months from now. Ultimately, I think The One is the only player here who had appropriate contempt for the process. He knew nothing important would be achieved so he focused on tax hikes to try to diminish the opposition by driving a wedge in their caucus. In the end, he gave a little on the income threshold in exchange for fracturing House Republicans. Not a bad trade short-term.

Anyway. Does Boehner have the votes? Quite possibly, says the Hill:

To assess party loyalty, The Hill analyzed five controversial bills on fiscal matters that sparked outcry from factions on the right and significant defections from House GOP members: a March 15, 2011 stopgap funding bill; an April 14, 2011 bill that averted a government shutdown; an Aug. 1 roll call on the Budget Control Act; a Nov. 17, 2011 “minibus” appropriations measure; and a Feb. 17, 2012 vote to extend the payroll tax holiday. Republican defections ranged from 54 to 101 on these bills.

Despite the GOP infighting, 92 House Republicans didn’t buck leadership on any on of those measures. This group includes leadership lawmakers, committee and subcommittee chairmen and a surprising number of freshman members. Some of Boehner’s loyal legislators include GOP Reps. Cole, Steven LaTourette (Ohio), Pete King (N.Y.), Darrell Issa (Calif.), Gary Miller (Calif.), Tom Marino (Pa.), Jon Runyan (N.J.) and Steve Stivers (Ohio)…

There are an additional 51 House Republicans who broke ranks on only one of the five votes reviewed by The Hill, including GOP Reps. Bob Goodlatte (Va.), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Tom Latham (Iowa), Steve Scalise (La.) and Frank Wolf (Va.).

That’s 143 gettable votes. Even if he lost 22 of those, he’d still have enough left over to keep his promise not to bring something to the floor that isn’t supported by a majority of House Republicans. The intrigue will come if he’s close to the magic number but not quite there. In that case, he’ll have to choose: Does he bring the bill to the floor anyway, risking a revolt in Thursday’s Speaker election, or does he torpedo the bill even though it likely will have majority support among the entire House? The GOP caucus is meeting as I write this to sound out its members, but reportedly they’re planning to have at least one more meeting today before making a decision on whether to vote. Are you not entertained?

Here’s Tom Cole, a Boehner loyalist, telling MSNBC he’ll definitely vote for the bill. He predicted this morning that a majority of House Republicans will vote yes as well. One other subplot to watch out for: How will Paul Ryan vote? He backed Boehner on Plan B, but with Rubio having voted no last night, the anti-tax ante for 2016 contenders has been upped. Ryan’s dilemma is that he wields much more influence over his caucus colleagues than Rubio does over his, so if he peels off, he could take enough with him to jeopardize the bill. Exit question: Democrats are crowing this morning that, having forced the GOP to accept new tax hikes now, it’ll be easier to make them do so again during the debt-ceiling negotiations. Is that true or will it actually be harder next time after Republicans face a backlash from their base and insist that they already checked the tax box back during the fiscal-cliff compromise?

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Update: Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Update: Sure sounds like we’re not going to have a vote today.

Update: More from Politico:

An overwhelming number of House Republicans in a party meeting Tuesday are calling on their leadership to amend the Senate’s bill to avert the fiscal cliff and send it back to the upper chamber, according to several sources in the meeting…

There is also some regret among Republicans about the party defeating Speaker John Boehner’s “Plan B” before the holidays, which would have raised taxes on millionaires, whereas the bill the Senate passed around 2 a.m. New Year’s Day raises taxes on households making more than $450,000…

Emerging as a stick point among House Republicans is how McConnell and Biden delayed the sequester — automatic spending cuts. The two-month delay is being viewed by House Republicans as inadequate in that it doesn’t reduce spending immediately.

Hope they’re ready for the backlash tomorrow when markets open way down and our fair and balanced press corps gets back to work.

Update: At least we’re getting our money’s worth of political suspense from this ridiculous charade.

If Boehner brings the bill to the floor over Cantor’s opposition, does that guarantee a “Boehner vs. Cantor” election for Speaker on Thursday?

Update: A few commenters are grumbling about my backlash point above. Fact: There will be a backlash tomorrow if this doesn’t pass. It is what it is. And that’s fine — it’s worth driving a hard bargain to get something important done, even at the price of a backlash. Just remind me again what “important” goal will be achieved by forcing a new round of negotiations. What sort of spending cuts do you expect to see here? A trillion dollars over 10 years when we’re running trillion-dollar deficits annually? Even if they got Obama to agree to that, why would you believe that future Congresses would allow those cuts to happen down the line? This entire process is an elaborate charade designed to postpone the ultimate reckoning on entitlement reform, and you’re simply not going to wring serious entitlement reform out of the Democrats given the two parties’ current postures. Obama just won reelection; the Democrats expanded their numbers in the House and Senate; entitlement reform remains depressingly unpopular among the public despite attempts to educate them about the role mandatory spending plays in driving the national debt. House Republicans aren’t going to hold out for weeks on end in the futile hope of revamping Medicare against that backdrop while middle-class voters stew over their new, higher tax brackets. Why risk some of the GOP’s small reserve of political capital on a deal that’s only negligibly less terrible than this one? I understand the “let it burn” strategy, to force the public to fully absorb the cost of big government. I don’t understand this one.

A quote from Philip Klein: “There’s a lot to hate in this deal, no doubt. But any honest assessment of it must grapple with the reality of Obama as president, Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader and $4.5 trillion in automatic tax hikes hitting in the new year. With this in mind, I’d rate the deal as objectively bad, but relatively good.”

Update: House Republicans weigh the backlash factor.

Update: If this is true, Boehner’s goal of 120+ Republican votes seems impossible:

Update: And now some pressure on Boehner from the left as a Democratic aide warns that the Senate bill is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition:

“The House Republicans have two choices: cut their losses and pass the deal now, or else put up a fight they cannot win and pass the same deal a few days now after being further humiliated,” said a Senate Democratic leadership aide.

Another senior Democratic aide said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will not reconsider the bill, which passed by a vote of 89 to 8.

“We’re done,” said the aide.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the GOP caucus will huddle at 5:15 ET. Possible outcomes: Boehner has the votes for the Senate plan and brings it to the floor to try to pass it; Boehner *doesn’t* have the votes but brings it to the floor so that House Republicans can add amendments related to spending cuts; Boehner refuses to bring it to the floor. The first outcome seems unlikely and the third would suffer from terrible optics, so expect JB to choose what’s behind door number two.

Update: Good question.

Update: Sounds like Boehner’s going to give the Senate bill a shot — maybe.

In other words, for the Senate bill to come to the floor, something like 15 Republicans have to oppose amending the bill to include spending cuts. Are there 15 in the entire caucus willing to go on record and do that, even if they’re doing it in the interest of trying to pass the Senate bill now and avert fiscal-cliff aftershocks tomorrow?

Update: The strategy here, I assume, is to use the prospective failure of the amended bill to prove to Republicans that nothing except the Senate bill can pass the House. If they can’t get 218 among their own caucus to support extending the negotiations by demanding cuts, then maybe some GOPers who dislike the Senate bill will hold their noses and vote for it.

Update: Yep, sure sounds like that’s what Boehner has in mind. He’s trying to get the Senate bill through:

Update: A Senate Democratic leadership aide reiterates that a vote to amend the bill in the House is effectively a vote to kill the Senate bill. There’ll be no more fiscal cliff action until the new Congress is seated on Thursday. Quote: “The aide added that House Republicans should not have stepped away from White House negotiations if they needed spending reductions to get the deal.”

Update: DrewM wonders if the spending-cuts amendment might fail simply because some critical mass of conservatives refuses to vote for any bill that doesn’t extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone. In other words, they’ll vote no even on an amended bill because it lets taxes go up on earners who make $450K. The amount of spending cuts attached will be irrelevant. If that’s what they end up doing, it’ll be an awfully dangerous gamble. Once the amended bill fails, you’ll see 100+ Democratic votes flood in for the unamended Senate bill; conceivably you could see nearly the entire Dem caucus vote yes, which means it would take only 40-50 Republicans to vote with them to pass the Biden/McConnell bill with zero cuts. (One of the earlier updates above suggested that that might be feasible.) What that would mean for Boehner’s Speakership, given that he’ll have violated the “majority of the majority” rule to pass it, I don’t know.

Another possibility: What if the amended bill fails and then the up-or-down vote on the Senate bill fails too? After the failure of Plan B and then the failure of two compromise bills, the narrative tomorrow will be that virtually nothing can pass the House.

Update: Sounds like an up-or-down vote might be coming:

Update: Wow. First time I’ve heard this all day:

Update: Just to underscore my point earlier about what a farce this all is, here’s what the House is mulling as their big counteroffer to the Senate on spending:

If there are enough GOP votes to pass the first approach, the House would amend the fiscal cliff bill and send it back to the Senate, the aide said. A second senior GOP leadership aide said that leaders were mulling adding $300 billion in spending cuts to the bill. Details of those cuts weren’t yet available.

That’s $300 billion over 10 years, I take it, or $30 billion annually. Now, go look at this graphic at Zero Hedge and see for yourself how much $30 billion is relative to the annual deficits we’re running these days. This “spending cuts” proposal is a face-saving gesture by the GOP, nothing more. And it still might not pass their own caucus.

Update: Robert Costa says the spending-cuts amendment is in deep trouble:

Can Pelosi deliver 150-170 Democrats? That’s a tall order even for her.

Update: According to GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, the House will vote on the Senate bill sometime tonight. Apparently they couldn’t find 218 Republicans willing to vote for the bill even with a few hundred billion in spending cuts tacked on as an amendment.

Update: I’m honestly shocked:

Remember, the Speaker typically doesn’t vote on bills. He’ll get enough flak from conservative groups if this thing passes with less than a Republican majority that you’d think he wouldn’t want to double down by lending his own vote to the compromise, especially with Cantor publicly opposed to the bill. Either he’s supremely confident that there aren’t 17 Republicans in the caucus willing to block his election as Speaker on Thursday or he’s reached the point where he doesn’t care if they do.

Update: Robert Costa says Boehner’s confident he has 218 from the full House for the Senate bill:

Chuck Todd hears that the vote may come at around 9:30 ET.

Update: Hmmmm:

Update: A footnote from Robert Costa: Allegedly, Boehner will vote only if his vote is needed to get to 218.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the final vote will come at around 11:15 p.m. ET. If you’re sticking around for the end of this charade, you’re a more diligent political junkie than me.

Update: At 11 p.m. ET, it’s a done deal. 257-167, with Democrats providing most of the votes. The Dems split 172-16, Republicans split 85-151. Boehner didn’t come close to satisfying the “majority of the majority” rule, which leaves him on thin ice for Thursday’s Speaker vote. At least he didn’t hide, though: He voted yes tonight, as did Paul Ryan, much to Team Rubio’s delight. Meanwhile, the rest of the leadership team — i.e. Eric Cantor and Kevin McCarthy — voted no, although Cantor waited until the bill had 218 votes to register his meaningless disapproval.

Hard to believe we might have the same leadership in the next Congress as we did for this process, but then not long ago it was also hard to believe we’d have the same leadership in the White House and the Senate in 2013 as we had in 2012. And yet here we are.


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Obama cut payroll taxes on a program that’s already insolvent to give handouts to people who don’t pay federal taxes.

He cut taxes. Take it, Liberal Chuck.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Time for Boehner to go…

MGardner on January 1, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Terrye on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

You’re the one from Alaska right? You said the same thing two years ago in support of McConnell’s “grand bargain” which kneecapped conservative momentum at the time, raised the debt ceiling to just before the election, and created this fiscal cliff sequestration nonsense to begin with. People like you did this because you’re weak. You think this pile of nonsense if governance?

I’m not going to say anything else, I’ll just pat your head and walk on by.

Daemonocracy on January 1, 2013 at 8:45 PM

You seem to be fixated on this issue, Chuck.
For the record, I totally disagree with the President on this.

There, happy now?

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Spare me your mealy mouth protests, tweenie. You and your ilk called for Bush’s impeachment over this. Obama does it (twice) – utter silence.

You people have no principles whatsoever.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:45 PM

I have a feeling we’ll have a new Speaker in the aftermath of this.

gophergirl on January 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Who?? No one wants to be Speaker.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:46 PM

This David Dreier clown that is talking about raising taxes on the TV right now. Can we blindfold him, give him a ciggarette and request California find a congressman that will not vote to raise taxes?

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 8:48 PM

“Lies” About Social Security and Medicare Pandering Politicians Never Told You

A taste of the info that you’ll learn that politicians have never nor will ever tell you backed up with data from the government and non-partisan organisations:

Fact: There were 159.4 workers for each Social Security recipient in 1940.

Fact: There were 16.5 workers for each Social Security recipient in 1950.

Fact: There were 5.1 workers for each Social Security recipient in 1960.

Fact: There were 3.7 workers for each Social Security recipient in 1970.

Fact: There were 3.2 workers for each Social Security recipient in 1980.

Fact: There were 3.4 workers for each Social Security recipient in 1990.

Fact: There were 3.4 workers for each Social Security recipient in 2000.

Fact: There were 3.3 workers for each Social Security recipient in 2005.

Fact: There were 1.75 workers for each Social Security recipient in 2010.

And…

Fact: In 1940, the average worker had to pay only 0.2% of his salary to sustain the seniors of his time.

Fact: In 1950, the average worker had to pay only 2% of his salary to sustain the seniors of his time.

Fact: In 2011, the average worker has to pay 11% of his salary to sustain the seniors of his time.

Fact: In 2031, the average worker will have to pay 17% of his salary to sustain the seniors of his time.

Fact: The average American household spends 50 times more today on Medicare than it did in 1960.

Projection: When today’s college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6% payroll tax, one-third greater than today’s rate, according to the non-partisan Peterson-Pew Commission on Budget Reform.

Projection: When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7% – more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year.

Projection: If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37% of payroll by 2054 – one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today’s payroll tax burden, according to the non-partisan Peterson-Pew Commission on Budget Reform.

Projection: More than one-third of the wages workers earn in 2054 will need to be committed to pay benefits promised under current law. That is before any bridges or highways are built and before any teachers’ or police officers’ salaries are paid.

Projection: By 2060, Social Security and Medicare will require nearly three out of four income tax dollars.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 8:48 PM

He cut taxes. Take it, Liberal Chuck.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Remind me who pays for those tax cuts?

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:48 PM

I have a feeling we’ll have a new Speaker in the aftermath of this.

gophergirl on January 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Sure hope so. This entire negotiation has been not just an embarrassment, but a nightmare.

petefrt on January 1, 2013 at 8:49 PM

You and Illinidiva probably voted for Mitt Romney, which make you even sadder.

But cheer up! You still have Mitch McConnell!

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

I did vote for Romney because I am not a taxpayer sucking leech like you. I’m not sure about Illinidiva.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 8:50 PM

From a spending perspective, it’s best to just go over the damn cliff. We need to stop being obsessed with tax rates and prioritize cutting spending. Since the Dems have taken spending cuts off the table, the only way we get them is by allowing sequestration to take effect.

alwaysfiredup on January 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM

In case you’re wondering what day it is, it’s not New Year’s.

It’s the end of Election Day.

Obama does not just defeat someone at the polls; he humiliates, wounds and even destroys an opponent if he can.

He made it impossible for Ryan to ever run for office in IL again after the senate race. He conned Hillary into leaving the Senate, and then gave all the real responsibilities to special envoys while she attended ladies’ teas in Africa.

The GOP should of course fight on, but the Dems and MSM will constantly remind the GOP that this vote was their “first time,” and from now on they’re just slutty tax raisers like the rest of the politicians in DC.

Wethal on January 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Yep.. as a rule I try not to vote for creepy cultists. Heck I wouldn’t have even drank Kool-Aid with Jim Jones… You on the other hand. But heck, please enjoy your lack of original thought and cultish attitudes. Heck, you don’t want to turn out like Winston.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Such sore losers! HotAir has turned into one big crying towel for heartbroken Romney voters.

I’ll enjoy Presidential Kool-Aid, you can continue to swill sour grapes, vintage 2012.

President Barack Hussein Obama.
You don’t have to like it, but he’s STILL the President.

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM

I did vote for Romney because I am not a taxpayer sucking leech like you. I’m not sure about Illinidiva.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Oh, I think you are a taxpayer sucking leech. And Illinidiva too.

Ok, your turn…

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:53 PM

All this ‘talk’ over nothing. We’re dealing with Congress. Any deal/bill they approve today they will violate tomorrow.

Neox99 on January 1, 2013 at 8:54 PM

77% of us will see our taxes RISE with this bill. Payroll tax break is eliminated for a good chunk earning over $50k.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

That temporary reduction in payroll tax for the last 2 years because of the bad economy has little to do with the proposed bill for resolution of the fiscal cliff. It was never meant to be permanent, and have already severely strained the hard pressed Social Security and MediCare programs.

galtani on January 1, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Go to hell Boehner you worthless sack of ****!

REPLACE THIS IDIOT!!!!

WisCon on January 1, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Calm down. I was quoting you and fumbled. I’m a conservative who actually thinks that principle should come before caving…unlike “libertarians” such as yourself.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Where did you get the idea that I support this deal? I would NEVER have agreed to it, as I have written about frequently. Go read my blog.

My only point about the payroll tax is that it is supposed to be paying for SS/MC. “Conservatives,” such as yourself, claim to be responsible. How is it responsible to continue to pass on trillions of dollars in debt to your own children and grandchildren? If you don’t want to pay for your payroll taxes, then announce that you will never seek SS or MC (you can’t renounce a claim to either since the Supreme Court long ago ruled that you have no right to either).

If the Founding Fathers had been like the current crop of politicians we have on both sides of the aisle, I never would have had an option of becoming an American because you guys would still be British subjects. Crooks and cowards are the politicians of today. If the people of the US had been as irresponsible, lazy and selfish in the 1940s as they are now, they’d either be speaking Japanese or German.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Oh, I think you are a taxpayer sucking leech. And Illinidiva too.

Ok, your turn…

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Last year I paid over 37K in taxes so dumb, lazy, slobs like you can get your free sh!t.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Yes he still is president thanks to dumbasses.

tyketto on January 1, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:40 PM

He didn’t. He won TX something like 60-40.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 8:57 PM

President Barack Hussein Obama.
You don’t have to like it, but he’s STILL the President.

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM

And you should be happy….and out celebrating with your “friends”. Bammie’ll throw ya a phone every year or so..

Yet for some reason you’re angry and bitter…and you spend your time HERE.

I swear…I’ll never understand lib-tards.

Tim_CA on January 1, 2013 at 8:59 PM

So how is Plan B looking right now?

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Such sore losers! HotAir has turned into one big crying towel for heartbroken Romney voters.

I’ll enjoy Presidential Kool-Aid, you can continue to swill sour grapes, vintage 2012.

President Barack Hussein Obama.
You don’t have to like it, but he’s STILL the President.

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Do the mind control pills taste better in the vintage wine?? I’m just wondering because Obama has caused liberals to abandon their dearest principles.. like being against Gitmo remaining open and fighting for the Miranda rights of terrorists. It’s almost like they only cared about their team winning and not the actual principles themselves. If you just like rooting for a team mindlessly, I recommend sports, not politics. The Packers’ offensive scheme doesn’t affect the lives of others last I checked.

As for Obama, I grew up and live in Chicago.. hence the nickname and can tell you that the guy is a thuggish Chicago politician. He enjoys destroying and humiliating his opponents. Clinton liked people and he enjoyed policy debates, and after seeing a sleaze in action, I miss that contrast in opponents. Ugliest jerk we’ve had as President since Nixon.. So no I wish the President nothing but humiliation after humiliation.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Jared Polis: I call upon you to introduce a bill that makes all the Bush Tax cuts permanent, or go live in some socialist state more amendable to your big goverment ideology.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Actually very easy for the GOP to turn this into a victory. Pass the Senate bill. Let Barry crow about it for a week. Then pass a massive spending cut bill (chain CPI, means testing, etc). Sell it as the people want a balanced approach to deficit reduction (they do) and Barry got his revenue raise (he did), so if the President is true to his word he should accept spending cuts. Easy real and PR victory.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:04 PM

who will challenge boehner?
who will save the republicans from themselves?
who will save the usa?

wholefoodsrepublican on January 1, 2013 at 9:06 PM

So how is Plan B looking right now?

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:02 PM

As bad as it did when first set on the table by incompetent leadership….why?

Tim_CA on January 1, 2013 at 9:06 PM

If you want meaningful spending cut, you have to convince the electorate and win elections to get control of the Congress and the presidency, otherwise it is just Hot Air posted in Hot Air.

galtani on January 1, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Actually very easy for the GOP to turn this into a victory. Pass the Senate bill.

When republicans have held the majority in the house, they have never voted to raise tax rates. This is a total and utter failure and anyone calling it a victory is despicable.
Introduce and pass a bill now that makes all the tax cuts permanent and raises taxes on no one.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:07 PM

This is all a tragic comedy.

Sherman1864 on January 1, 2013 at 9:08 PM

If you for one second thought this wouldn’t pass the House, you’re living in a dream world.

SouthernGent on January 1, 2013 at 9:09 PM

I’m almost at the point where I despise Boehner as much as I despise Obama.

Mr. Arrogant on January 1, 2013 at 9:09 PM

You seem to be fixated on this issue, Chuck.
For the record, I totally disagree with the President on this.

There, happy now?

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Yet you still polish his knob even in this thread.

Fail.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Time for Boehner to go…

MGardner on January 1, 2013 at 8:45 PM

You have no concept of politics. It’s the art of compromise. Speaker Boehner had the best idea of passing a tax hike with suitable spending cuts…aka Plan B. That would have forced Obama to compromise so more. The idiots in the Tea Party who have no concept of comprise completely blew it. Now they are stuck with the worst deal imaginable, and the GOP completely caves on all points. No, the tea party clowns must go, cause they are useless.

rubberneck on January 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM

President Barack Hussein Obama.
You don’t have to like it, but he’s STILL the President.

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM

No, the sad part is that this is the only thing you have going for you in your life. Does it suck that as much as you worship Obama, he isn’t even aware of your meager little existence?

It sucks that Romney lost, it certainly sucks for this country that will continue to decay, but we can rebound in 2016, beat Hillary and work our way back to prosperity.

By the way, the only used-up, crusty towel I see is the one you use to clean yourself off after you finish creaming to pictures of your Presidential Messiah.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM

who will challenge boehner?
who will save the republicans from themselves?
who will save the usa?

wholefoodsrepublican on

I think you are learning what I have been saying for years:
Democrats and republicans are different sides to the same coin. They have not respect for the constitution or the limits it places on their power.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:12 PM

When republicans have held the majority in the house, they have never voted to raise tax rates. This is a total and utter failure and anyone calling it a victory is despicable.
Introduce and pass a bill now that makes all the tax cuts permanent and raises taxes on no one.

paulsur

Or if Republicans are for fiscal responsibility and less government then they must realize such debts cannot be dealt with without more revenue.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:12 PM

There is simply nothing good on the political horizon. Let’s see a clear conservative message win somewhere… ANYWHERE on the MSM, and I’ll start having hope. Otherwise, brace for pain.

MT on January 1, 2013 at 9:12 PM

Oh, I think you are a taxpayer sucking leech. And Illinidiva too.

Ok, your turn…

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Umm.. Never took a dime from the gov’t. Seriously, my dad did this thing called saving and investing when I was growing up. We didn’t go on lavish vacations. (I remember going to D.C. when I was seven and getting tired of eating hot dogs and ice cream). As a result, my college tuition was completely paid for because my father was frugal. Went back to grad school a few years ago and that was totally paid for as well because I live in a small studio and saved lots of money. I was even able to splurge on a few trips to Europe. Don’t have any student loans, never took other handouts like the hipsters using food stamps to pay for their expensive vegan diets, etc.

As a kicker, my father lost his job because of the Obama economy. Couldn’t find a new one because he was in his late 50s. Luckily he saved and could retire early. My mom lost her teaching job because of the IL unions. But heck.. we’re EVIILLL rich people as only those sorts of people vote Republican so they can keep all their money and get to beat up poor people on a weekly basis. (P.S. I heard the poor people in IL get beat up by people on the North Shore on Fridays…) I couldn’t be because I’m seriously tired of going to work every day and paying for you whiners and slackers.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:14 PM

The GOP will betray you

TrueKing

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 9:15 PM

So how is Plan B looking right now?

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Plan B was never going to pass the senate so I am not sure what purpose it served. Any compromise with Obama would have ended up were we are right now.

Compromising with Obama is basically a waste of time yet Boehner for some reason thinks some sort of good PR will be accomplished by doing it.

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Introduce and pass a bill now that makes all the tax cuts permanent and raises taxes on no one.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Where is the vote to do that?

galtani on January 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM

f the people of the US had been as irresponsible, lazy and selfish in the 1940s as they are now, they’d either be speaking Japanese or German.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Sad, isn’t it? I, for one, am glad that you are here – and would happily see these others shuffle on a live somewhere else.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM

You have no concept of politics. It’s the art of compromise. Speaker Boehner had the best idea of passing a tax hike with suitable spending cuts…aka Plan B. That would have forced Obama to compromise so more. The idiots in the Tea Party who have no concept of comprise completely blew it. Now they are stuck with the worst deal imaginable, and the GOP completely caves on all points. No, the tea party clowns must go, cause they are useless.

rubberneck on January 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM

How can you call a thirty billion dollar spending cut ‘suitable’ and keep a straight face?

You clearly just c/p your posts rather than think about them.

Sockpuppet.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Blink! U.S. Debt Just Grew by $11 Trillion

[T]he U.S. government’s fiscal gap — the true measure of the nation’s indebtedness — rose by $11 trillion.

The fiscal gap is the present value difference between projected future spending and revenue. It captures all government liabilities, whether they are official obligations to service Treasury bonds or unofficial commitments, such as paying for food stamps or buying drones.

The U.S. fiscal gap, calculated (by us) using the Congressional Budget Office’s realistic long-term budget forecast — the Alternative Fiscal Scenario — is now $222 trillion. Last year, it was $211 trillion. The $11 trillion difference — this year’s true federal deficit — is 10 times larger than the official deficit and roughly as large as the entire stock of official debt in public hands.

This fantastic and dangerous growth in the fiscal gap is not new. In 2003 and 2004, the economists Alan Auerbach and William Gale extended the CBO’s short-term forecast and measured fiscal gaps of $60 trillion and $86 trillion, respectively. In 2007, the first year the CBO produced the Alternative Fiscal Scenario, the gap, by our reckoning, stood at $175 trillion. By 2009, when the CBO began reporting the AFS annually, the gap was $184 trillion. In 2010, it was $202 trillion, followed by $211 trillion in 2011 and $222 trillion in 2012.

Part of the fiscal gap’s growth reflects changes in policy, such as the Bush and Obama tax cuts, the introduction of Medicare Part D, and the expansion of defense spending. Part reflects “natural” growth of existing programs, including growth in Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement rates. And part reflects the demographic time bomb U.S. politicians are blithely ignoring.

When fully retired, 78 million baby boomers will collect, on average, more than 85 percent of per-capita gross domestic product ($40,000 in today’s dollars) in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits. Each passing year brings these outlays one year closer, which raises their present value.

Governments, like households, can’t indefinitely spend beyond their means. They have to satisfy what economists call their “intertemporal budget constraint.” The fiscal gap simply measures the extent to which this constraint is violated and tells us what is needed to balance the government’s intertemporal budget.

The answer for the U.S. isn’t pretty. Closing the gap using taxes requires an immediate and permanent 64 percent increase in all federal taxes. Alternatively, the U.S. needs to cut, immediately and permanently, all federal purchases and transfer payments, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, by 40 percent. Or it can mix these terrible fiscal medicines with honey, namely radical fiscal reforms that make the economy much fairer and far stronger. What the government can’t do is pay its bills by spending more and taxing less. America’s children, whose futures are being rapidly destroyed, are smart enough to tell us this.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Actually very easy for the GOP to turn this into a victory. Pass the Senate bill. Let Barry crow about it for a week. Then pass a massive spending cut bill (chain CPI, means testing, etc). Sell it as the people want a balanced approach to deficit reduction (they do) and Barry got his revenue raise (he did), so if the President is true to his word he should accept spending cuts. Easy real and PR victory.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:04 PM

You are sort of delusional.. Yes, Barry got his pound of flesh, but the Rs are completely out of ideas. Not going to happen. Basically the R caucus are completely devastated.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:17 PM

There is another larger tragedy here: The house no longer has any leverage when it comes to the debt ceiling negotiation. The president can just hold out until he gets a permanent removal of the ceiling so that he can now spend anything he wants. Who needs a budget any longer?

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:19 PM

You have no concept of politics. It’s the art of compromise.

rubberneck on January 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM

And you have no concept that this is precisely the problem. Look around you at the state of the state; *that* is the result of your ‘politics’ and ‘art of compromise’. Good stuff, eh – and more of the same – but worse – is going to make things all better, eh?

Politics be damned, along with those that value them and the related unserious, trivial pursuits above reality and actual solutions. If that includes you, so be it.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:20 PM

Plan B was never going to pass the senate so I am not sure what purpose it served.
William Eaton

Yep, and the people you support didn’t get it either. Sure it wasn’t going to pass the senate. The senate was going to refuse a GOP bill taking care of the fiscal cliff that raised taxes on millionaires without robbing the poor. Great optics for the GOP. Course the conservatives didn’t want that, so now Obama gets all the optics. Hence you now need to hope the economy tanks or continues to suck for this to work out.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:20 PM

You are sort of delusional.. Yes, Barry got his pound of flesh, but the Rs are completely out of ideas. Not going to happen. Basically the R caucus are completely devastated.

Illinidiva

That hardly requires new thinking. Doesn’t take much to put together republican ideas for cutting spending into a bill. Its more a question of the will.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Thank God, it looks like there are enough sane Republicans left to get this done.

It’s time the far right or whatever they’re calling themselves these days find a new home.

blue13326 on January 1, 2013 at 9:22 PM

You have no concept of politics. It’s the art of compromise.

Compromise means lacking and core. It means not having an idealogy. It means you will sell out whenever for whatever.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:22 PM

I’m seriously tired of going to work every day and paying for you whiners and slackers.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:14 PM

The chump thinks that the good folks here at HA are like him. Sitting at home staring at his obambi bumper sticker stuck to his wall, while folks like us pay for his free sh!t.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 9:23 PM

Sad, isn’t it? I, for one, am glad that you are here – and would happily see these others shuffle on a live somewhere else.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Yes, it is and thank you. I am only 34, but I completely understand the sentiment of British veterans and those that lived through The Blitz, years of sacrifice and the rebuilding after the way, who look around at the state of things today and ask “Why did we even fight?” It’s sad — and quite shocking — to see America descend so rapidly into the same moral morass where living on the dole is “noble” and being successful is “evil” and a form of “theft.”

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 9:23 PM

Thank God, it looks like there are enough sane Republicans left to get this done

Historically speaking until now republicans have never voted to raise tax rates when they held the majority in the house. Hardly makes them far right radicals that they are doing something so turncoat now.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Hence you now need to hope the economy tanks or continues to suck for this to work out.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:20 PM

No need to hope for it, champ – it’s a foregone conclusion.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Whether or not our nation survives rests solely on our spending problem. Using tax rates to address the deficit truly is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

The kind of cuts that were being talked about with this tax deal probably wouldn’t fund the federal government for 24 hours.

My opinion is it’s not going to be tackled until we truly hit a wall and see real consequences like a run on the dollar.

I blame our idiot electorate for this problem, a political party can only do so much if the goal is to actually win elections.

BradTank on January 1, 2013 at 9:25 PM

You have no concept of politics. It’s the art of compromise.

Yeah, the Democrats have really mastered the art of compromise.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 9:26 PM

You have no concept of politics. It’s the art of compromise.

rubberneck on January 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM

When your principle is compromise, you will compromise your principles.

The GOP has done so for decades.

Now they are indistinguishable from the Dems.

Tired of being told we have to compromise.

That is the lament of a liberal/progressive.

Or a spoiled rotten petulant child.

NOw, it is too late.

We are watching our elected leaders, if they deserve to be called leaders, arguing over a cut in the growth of spending and calling it a spending cut….and then enabling the expenditure of trillions more as a sap to the masses who couldn’t possibly go one day without government taking care of their every need.

Principles?

So out of fashion anymore.

Let’s go buy us somethin’. That’ll help trim the budget ’round here.

coldwarrior on January 1, 2013 at 9:27 PM

That hardly requires new thinking. Doesn’t take much to put together republican ideas for cutting spending into a bill. Its more a question of the will.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Demoralized is what I meant to say.. The Rs are completely demoralized. Frankly, we’re never going to win an election again and if we do it is going to be with careerist losers who hate the Republican party like Chris Christie and Jon Huntsman.. However, of course, there is a certain element in the Republican party who totes wouldn’t mind.. Especially considering Chris Christie is still a viable Presidential candidate despite the fact he tanked Romney’s campaign. Still trying to figure out who is voting for this loser… Would you vote for Christie for President? There must be some Republicans out there and I’m trying to figure out who.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Vote on the resolution is under way.

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 9:28 PM

Historically speaking until now republicans have never voted to raise tax rates when they held the majority in the house. Hardly makes them far right radicals that they are doing something so turncoat now.

paulsur

Refusing to raise taxes under any circumstances is completely asinine. No one with even a half partial point of view could look at the current situation and think that the debt can be dealt with only by taxes or only by cutting spending. Its too big. Yes to keep the problem getting worse there needs to be massive spending cuts. But you’re not making up the difference without additional revenues.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:29 PM

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:19 PM

The House actually has a lot more leverage for the debt ceiling fight. It has almost none to eject the proposed senate bill. While Americans might not have come to accepting steep spending cut, they know they cannot continue with uncontrolled borrowing. You have to pick the fight you can win.

galtani on January 1, 2013 at 9:30 PM

Done deal, it’s going to pass easily.

Way to go “conservatives!”

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 9:31 PM

Is this Kabuki still going on? Lol, finish it.

tommy71 on January 1, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Who knew that Joe Biden was better at math than Mitch McConnell?

Given that McConnell is in the minority in the Senate, this disgrace falls directly on Boehner, who still could block it.

The House is being held at gunpoint, being forced to accept budget law that has unconstitutionally originated in THE SENATE.

It’s time to call the Dems’ bluff… and to announce from the treetops that the Dems are bankrupting the USA and refusing to cut spending.

The GOP will take the hit no matter what, given the MSM.

It’s time for the House to shout “STOP.”

Speaker Boehner must resign.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:33 PM

Currently the vote is 220-4.

131 Rs have voted Yes.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 9:33 PM

Would you vote for Christie for President?

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:27 PM

NO

galtani on January 1, 2013 at 9:33 PM

Refusing to raise taxes under any circumstances is completely asinine. No one with even a half partial point of view could look at the current situation and think that the debt can be dealt with only by taxes or only by cutting spending. Its too big. Yes to keep the problem getting worse there needs to be massive spending cuts. But you’re not making up the difference without additional revenues.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:29 PM

The additional revenues are a pittance.

I vehemently disagree with you.

IT’S THE SPENDING, STUPID!

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Demoralized is what I meant to say.. The Rs are completely demoralized. Frankly, we’re never going to win an election again and if we do it is going to be with careerist losers who hate the Republican party like Chris Christie and Jon Huntsman.. However, of course, there is a certain element in the Republican party who totes wouldn’t mind.. Especially considering Chris Christie is still a viable Presidential candidate despite the fact he tanked Romney’s campaign. Still trying to figure out who is voting for this loser… Would you vote for Christie for President? There must be some Republicans out there and I’m trying to figure out who.

Illinidiva

You’re sort of delusional. My first choice for Prez is Rubio (just as he was my top pick for VP). Just because the GOP has had 2 crap campaigns doesn’t mean they’re not going to win. The small government message works, its when its combined with the social conservative nonsense that wrecks it.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Buck Foehner in the 21st Century

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:35 PM

IT’S THE SPENDING, STUPID!

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Not calling you stupid, Zaggs.

Just advertising the bumper sticker I am making for my car.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:36 PM

“The House Republicans have two choices: cut their losses and pass the deal now, or else put up a fight they cannot win and pass the same deal a few days now after being further humiliated,” said a Senate Democratic leadership aide

Rep John Fleming (La) said sentiment in GOP mtg now is to pass senate bill as is, maybe with mostly Dem votes. Realize they’re beat

They don’t even fight. How do they know they would be beat?

Has anyone heard anything from the leadership attacking the spending coming from this administration? Has any of the leaders taken this fight to the American people? Has one word been spoken from the leadership exposing specific outlandish spending? Obama 4,000,000 vacations?
No that would be too freaking obvious and require effort and might tick Obama off! Maybe have the media call them names!
It’s so much freaking easier sucking on your thumb, telling Republicans Obama won and they need to fall in line!

Thank God we didn’t have freaking leaders like this during WWII! We’d all be speaking German right now!

They are beat because they are a bunch of losers!
No freaking Democrat would talk like this! But they do! They are a disgrace! Boehner and Cantor are a disgrace!

JellyToast on January 1, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Darn, the Social security payroll tax goes up 2%.
Its really going to hurt us lower income folks, but what do they care?
Is the S.S. tax like the gas tax? Doesn’t go for its intended use, probably used for Solar cronies.

Belle on January 1, 2013 at 9:36 PM

I hold out no hope any longer that we’ll fix this problem.

Unemployment *is* going to get far worse.

Inflation *is* going to cripple us.

We *will* lose our position as the currency of the world.

Our creditors *will* stop loaning us money and demand payment.

Entitlements *will* cease – not be cut back for some, but end – for all.

This economy *is* going to collapse.

This society *is* going to disintegrate into an ugly, rioting, bloody mess.

Not ‘if’; ‘when’.

Best of luck.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:37 PM

The additional revenues are a pittance.

I vehemently disagree with you.

IT’S THE SPENDING, STUPID!

cane_loader

Ok then smarty. Find 1 trillion from the federal budget to cut that would any hope of heck of passing both houses. Mind you thats 1 trillion per years, not over a decade.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:37 PM

JellyToast on January 1, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Love you’re monkier…perfect description of the Tea Party and Boehner Republicans.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Sounds like the only option left to the GOP is to die on the sequester hill in the next two months.

Just the extension of the sequester is an abomination piled atop the abomination of the “suercommittee,” to begin with.

We are seeing constitutional abomination piled atop constitutional abomination, piled atop constitutional abomination… in an unbroken fashion since 2009.

Folks, we have front-row seats to the unraveling of a 236-year-old republic.

We are living it.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:39 PM

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:19 PM

The House actually has a lot more leverage for the debt ceiling fight. It has almost none to eject the proposed senate bill. While Americans might not have come to accepting steep spending cut, they know they cannot continue with uncontrolled borrowing. You have to pick the fight you can win.

galtani on January 1, 2013 at 9:30 PM

It is a fight they now cannot win. Obama will sign nothing less than a bill that removes the debt ceiling. Republicans have no leverage.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:39 PM

How can you call a thirty billion dollar spending cut ‘suitable’ and keep a straight face?

You clearly just c/p your posts rather than think about them.

Sockpuppet.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM

You people have mental defects. You call completely caving suitable?

rubberneck on January 1, 2013 at 9:41 PM

I can’t believe this is what we’re doing on our holiday.

Every freaking Christmas we are going to be doing this crap! The past 4 years we’ve been in a perpetual crisis and it will continue.

Hey.. anybody check to make sure this bill is written yet? Has anyone read it all? Could be a gun ban hiding in there somewhere. You never freaking know!

“We have to pass this fiscal cliff deal so we can see what’s in it! Oh.. what a great surprise! A semi-auto ban! How nice!”

JellyToast on January 1, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Yep, and the people you support didn’t get it either. Sure it wasn’t going to pass the senate. The senate was going to refuse a GOP bill taking care of the fiscal cliff that raised taxes on millionaires without robbing the poor. Great optics for the GOP. Course the conservatives didn’t want that, so now Obama gets all the optics. Hence you now need to hope the economy tanks or continues to suck for this to work out.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:20 PM

LOL!

Well now the progressives have their tax the rich plan. All the problems are solved! The economy should just take off, right….right?

Can’t hit us over the head about tax cuts to the rich anymore. What ever will Obama talk about now?

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Ok then smarty. Find 1 trillion from the federal budget to cut that would any hope of heck of passing both houses. Mind you thats 1 trillion per years, not over a decade.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:37 PM

We can’t focus on taxes.
That is the squirrel.

Unless all our representatives failed basic math, spending is 97% of the problem.

This is the reality.

The fact that it is being assiduously avoided by supposedly the best and brightest in Washington, clearly highlights an economical death spiral for the USA.

Loos like a conscious attempt to crash the dollar.

Only this that makes sense is the attempted imposition of a global currency, and I am saying that without one whit of tinfoil, unfortunately.

Looks like we are witnessing a golbal financial coup, the key linchpin being the crashing of the dollar.

Either that, or a breathtaking fiscal myopia in Washington, unseen since the founding of the nation.

cane_loader on January 1, 2013 at 9:42 PM

It is a fight they now cannot win. Obama will sign nothing less than a bill that removes the debt ceiling. Republicans have no leverage.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Exactly. They have no spine and now no leverage. Even if they had half an inclination not to cave like a wet cardboard box, they haven’t a leg to stand on.

MelonCollie on January 1, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Fiscal cliff: Does Boehner have the votes? Update: Boehner vs. Cantor? Update: House to vote on Senate bill; Update: Boehner to vote yes? Report: House has majority for Senate bill
posted at 1:23 pm on January 1, 2013 by Allahpundit

I can’t believe this is what we’re doing on our holiday.
========================================================

No Sh*t AP,I get home from a family New years supper,
and the US Gov. has the Audacity to pull this!
(sarc)

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 9:42 PM

You’re sort of delusional. My first choice for Prez is Rubio (just as he was my top pick for VP). Just because the GOP has had 2 crap campaigns doesn’t mean they’re not going to win. The small government message works, its when its combined with the social conservative nonsense that wrecks it.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Umm.. Rubio is not a very deep thinker. I’d vote for him with my nose held tightly just out of amusement because what comes around goes around for the Dems. (Re. Obama).

But let’s take this further.. If Chris Christie or Jon Huntsman were somehow nominated, would you vote for either of them? I most definitely wouldn’t. I have nothing against moderate Republicans, but I am not in favor of jerks.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 9:42 PM

FIRST! Reap it.

But yeah, there is so much trickery going on here that when it all finally unravels there will be no tracing the path of destruction, it will simply implode.

Get ready because it’s comin’.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Refusing to raise taxes under any circumstances is completely asinine. No one with even a half partial point of view could look at the current situation and think that the debt can be dealt with only by taxes or only by cutting spending. Its too big. Yes to keep the problem getting worse there needs to be massive spending cuts. But you’re not making up the difference without additional revenues.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:29 PM

You’re simply mistaken. You can’t raise enough revenue to even make a DENT in the problem. And attempts to raise enough revenue to be meaningful would be economy-crippling, so counter-productive.

The only way you’re going to make progress without shooting yourself in the head, so to speak, is simply with spending cuts, period.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Invest in nano-structural replacement spine growth research.

It’s our only hope.

profitsbeard on January 1, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Thank God for the word freak. If somebody hadn’t invented that word I would be spewing so much profanity right now. I wouldn’t know how to comment.

JellyToast on January 1, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Here comes the crap sandwich debate.

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 9:45 PM

I mean procedural vote

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM

I have no children and am not married yet, but have every intention of continuing the good fight for America and if that fails will leave this god forsaken progressive hell hole state called Commieland (better known as Maryland) and join the New United States based in the south and midwest.

The country is about as regionally divided as it has been since the mid-19th century. Around 20-25 states are not going to go down in economic flames with the rest of the idiots from the northeast and far west.

William Eaton on January 1, 2013 at 6:01 PM

You do that Mr. Eaton, and more power to you. I and my family have been ‘fighting the good fight (in living it) for damn near 40 years) fight on! I’m done. Now? I’ll just slither in this hole of Amerika and perhaps die a peaceful death. I haven’t grandchildren to worry over–nor did I vote for any to worry over. I have clear conscience.

jersey taxpayer on January 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Refusing to raise taxes under any circumstances is completely asinine. No one with even a half partial point of view could look at the current situation and think that the debt can be dealt with only by taxes or only by cutting spending. Its too big. Yes to keep the problem getting worse there needs to be massive spending cuts. But you’re not making up the difference without additional revenues.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Government is too big. The federal government has taken on more that what the consitution outlines as its responsibility. The government needs to reduced by about 35% of its current size.
That has nothing to do with tax.
You raise tax to spend more.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Or whatever is being shoved on this country.

Philly on January 1, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Bill to avert ‘fiscal cliff’ clears procedural vote in House; vote on final passage expected later tonight – @Reuters

1 min ago from live.reuters.com by editor
==============================================

Breaking News: Bill to avert fiscal cliff clears procedural vote in House of Representatives
The Economy & The Fiscal Cliff Live

http://live.reuters.com/Event/President_Obamas_economy_speech

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 9:47 PM

The government needs to reduced by about 35% of its current size.

paulsur on January 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM

I’m thinking something more on the order of 65% smaller, frankly.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Yes to keep the problem getting worse there needs to be massive spending cuts. But you’re not making up the difference without additional revenues.

Zaggs on January 1, 2013 at 9:29 PM

If I agree to accept your premise, will you show me where the massive spending cuts are being proposed.

Objection to this so called deal has been based on the fact that there are no real cuts, but rather additional spending.

massrighty on January 1, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…………….

@jparkABC tweeted:
jparkABC
@NancyPelosi crosses aisle to embrace retiring GOP Calif Rep David Dreier, who receives bipartisan applause as he closes final floor speech

27 mins ago from twitter.com by editor

canopfor on January 1, 2013 at 9:49 PM

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