Fiscal cliff: Does Boehner have the votes? Update: Boehner vs. Cantor? Update: Boehner to vote yes? Report: House has majority for Senate bill; Update: Bill passes, 257-167

posted at 1:23 pm on January 1, 2013 by Allahpundit

I can’t believe this is what we’re doing on our holiday.

Well said, but don’t forget the punchline: Because the Bush tax cuts will be extended for most earners with next to nothing in offsetting spending cuts, the “deficit reduction deal” technically increases the deficit by nearly $4 trillion over the next decade. Bill Kristol, urging the House to vote yes in the interest of avoiding sequester defense cuts, aptly describes it as a “mess”:

The fiscal cliff deal that the Senate passed early this morning is ridiculous in too many ways to count. There seem to be no figures from the Congressional Budget Office and only “very preliminary” figures from the Joint Tax Committee about the real spending and revenue implications. The two month delay of the sequester will make actual governance even more difficult (how is the Pentagon supposed to plan for the rest of the year?). The sequester delay is funded by a gimmick with retirement savings tax rules that is a caricature of what has become of Washington legislation and policy making. Working Americans making less than $400,000 will be shocked when they find that, contrary to promises from both parties, their taxes are in fact going up (the payroll tax). And we will face another cliff when we hit the debt ceiling and the sequester again in two months.

The deal is a sad commentary on our politics today.

Actually, we face two more cliffs, first the sequester/debt ceiling standoff and then another over the next budget continuing resolution. If you’re serious about fiscal sustainability, the stakes couldn’t be lower. To the extent today’s House vote is interesting, it’s interesting as a type of bread-and-circus: Whether they pass the Senate bill today or pass a marginally less dismal deal in a week or two, the only thing that’s interesting about any of this is the facile political suspense of whether Boehner can muster enough Republican votes, whether Biden can keep Pelosi and House Democrats in line, and what it all means for the next zero-stakes confrontation between Obama and the GOP a few months from now. Ultimately, I think The One is the only player here who had appropriate contempt for the process. He knew nothing important would be achieved so he focused on tax hikes to try to diminish the opposition by driving a wedge in their caucus. In the end, he gave a little on the income threshold in exchange for fracturing House Republicans. Not a bad trade short-term.

Anyway. Does Boehner have the votes? Quite possibly, says the Hill:

To assess party loyalty, The Hill analyzed five controversial bills on fiscal matters that sparked outcry from factions on the right and significant defections from House GOP members: a March 15, 2011 stopgap funding bill; an April 14, 2011 bill that averted a government shutdown; an Aug. 1 roll call on the Budget Control Act; a Nov. 17, 2011 “minibus” appropriations measure; and a Feb. 17, 2012 vote to extend the payroll tax holiday. Republican defections ranged from 54 to 101 on these bills.

Despite the GOP infighting, 92 House Republicans didn’t buck leadership on any on of those measures. This group includes leadership lawmakers, committee and subcommittee chairmen and a surprising number of freshman members. Some of Boehner’s loyal legislators include GOP Reps. Cole, Steven LaTourette (Ohio), Pete King (N.Y.), Darrell Issa (Calif.), Gary Miller (Calif.), Tom Marino (Pa.), Jon Runyan (N.J.) and Steve Stivers (Ohio)…

There are an additional 51 House Republicans who broke ranks on only one of the five votes reviewed by The Hill, including GOP Reps. Bob Goodlatte (Va.), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Tom Latham (Iowa), Steve Scalise (La.) and Frank Wolf (Va.).

That’s 143 gettable votes. Even if he lost 22 of those, he’d still have enough left over to keep his promise not to bring something to the floor that isn’t supported by a majority of House Republicans. The intrigue will come if he’s close to the magic number but not quite there. In that case, he’ll have to choose: Does he bring the bill to the floor anyway, risking a revolt in Thursday’s Speaker election, or does he torpedo the bill even though it likely will have majority support among the entire House? The GOP caucus is meeting as I write this to sound out its members, but reportedly they’re planning to have at least one more meeting today before making a decision on whether to vote. Are you not entertained?

Here’s Tom Cole, a Boehner loyalist, telling MSNBC he’ll definitely vote for the bill. He predicted this morning that a majority of House Republicans will vote yes as well. One other subplot to watch out for: How will Paul Ryan vote? He backed Boehner on Plan B, but with Rubio having voted no last night, the anti-tax ante for 2016 contenders has been upped. Ryan’s dilemma is that he wields much more influence over his caucus colleagues than Rubio does over his, so if he peels off, he could take enough with him to jeopardize the bill. Exit question: Democrats are crowing this morning that, having forced the GOP to accept new tax hikes now, it’ll be easier to make them do so again during the debt-ceiling negotiations. Is that true or will it actually be harder next time after Republicans face a backlash from their base and insist that they already checked the tax box back during the fiscal-cliff compromise?

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Update: Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Update: Sure sounds like we’re not going to have a vote today.

Update: More from Politico:

An overwhelming number of House Republicans in a party meeting Tuesday are calling on their leadership to amend the Senate’s bill to avert the fiscal cliff and send it back to the upper chamber, according to several sources in the meeting…

There is also some regret among Republicans about the party defeating Speaker John Boehner’s “Plan B” before the holidays, which would have raised taxes on millionaires, whereas the bill the Senate passed around 2 a.m. New Year’s Day raises taxes on households making more than $450,000…

Emerging as a stick point among House Republicans is how McConnell and Biden delayed the sequester — automatic spending cuts. The two-month delay is being viewed by House Republicans as inadequate in that it doesn’t reduce spending immediately.

Hope they’re ready for the backlash tomorrow when markets open way down and our fair and balanced press corps gets back to work.

Update: At least we’re getting our money’s worth of political suspense from this ridiculous charade.

If Boehner brings the bill to the floor over Cantor’s opposition, does that guarantee a “Boehner vs. Cantor” election for Speaker on Thursday?

Update: A few commenters are grumbling about my backlash point above. Fact: There will be a backlash tomorrow if this doesn’t pass. It is what it is. And that’s fine — it’s worth driving a hard bargain to get something important done, even at the price of a backlash. Just remind me again what “important” goal will be achieved by forcing a new round of negotiations. What sort of spending cuts do you expect to see here? A trillion dollars over 10 years when we’re running trillion-dollar deficits annually? Even if they got Obama to agree to that, why would you believe that future Congresses would allow those cuts to happen down the line? This entire process is an elaborate charade designed to postpone the ultimate reckoning on entitlement reform, and you’re simply not going to wring serious entitlement reform out of the Democrats given the two parties’ current postures. Obama just won reelection; the Democrats expanded their numbers in the House and Senate; entitlement reform remains depressingly unpopular among the public despite attempts to educate them about the role mandatory spending plays in driving the national debt. House Republicans aren’t going to hold out for weeks on end in the futile hope of revamping Medicare against that backdrop while middle-class voters stew over their new, higher tax brackets. Why risk some of the GOP’s small reserve of political capital on a deal that’s only negligibly less terrible than this one? I understand the “let it burn” strategy, to force the public to fully absorb the cost of big government. I don’t understand this one.

A quote from Philip Klein: “There’s a lot to hate in this deal, no doubt. But any honest assessment of it must grapple with the reality of Obama as president, Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader and $4.5 trillion in automatic tax hikes hitting in the new year. With this in mind, I’d rate the deal as objectively bad, but relatively good.”

Update: House Republicans weigh the backlash factor.

Update: If this is true, Boehner’s goal of 120+ Republican votes seems impossible:

Update: And now some pressure on Boehner from the left as a Democratic aide warns that the Senate bill is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition:

“The House Republicans have two choices: cut their losses and pass the deal now, or else put up a fight they cannot win and pass the same deal a few days now after being further humiliated,” said a Senate Democratic leadership aide.

Another senior Democratic aide said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will not reconsider the bill, which passed by a vote of 89 to 8.

“We’re done,” said the aide.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the GOP caucus will huddle at 5:15 ET. Possible outcomes: Boehner has the votes for the Senate plan and brings it to the floor to try to pass it; Boehner *doesn’t* have the votes but brings it to the floor so that House Republicans can add amendments related to spending cuts; Boehner refuses to bring it to the floor. The first outcome seems unlikely and the third would suffer from terrible optics, so expect JB to choose what’s behind door number two.

Update: Good question.

Update: Sounds like Boehner’s going to give the Senate bill a shot — maybe.

In other words, for the Senate bill to come to the floor, something like 15 Republicans have to oppose amending the bill to include spending cuts. Are there 15 in the entire caucus willing to go on record and do that, even if they’re doing it in the interest of trying to pass the Senate bill now and avert fiscal-cliff aftershocks tomorrow?

Update: The strategy here, I assume, is to use the prospective failure of the amended bill to prove to Republicans that nothing except the Senate bill can pass the House. If they can’t get 218 among their own caucus to support extending the negotiations by demanding cuts, then maybe some GOPers who dislike the Senate bill will hold their noses and vote for it.

Update: Yep, sure sounds like that’s what Boehner has in mind. He’s trying to get the Senate bill through:

Update: A Senate Democratic leadership aide reiterates that a vote to amend the bill in the House is effectively a vote to kill the Senate bill. There’ll be no more fiscal cliff action until the new Congress is seated on Thursday. Quote: “The aide added that House Republicans should not have stepped away from White House negotiations if they needed spending reductions to get the deal.”

Update: DrewM wonders if the spending-cuts amendment might fail simply because some critical mass of conservatives refuses to vote for any bill that doesn’t extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone. In other words, they’ll vote no even on an amended bill because it lets taxes go up on earners who make $450K. The amount of spending cuts attached will be irrelevant. If that’s what they end up doing, it’ll be an awfully dangerous gamble. Once the amended bill fails, you’ll see 100+ Democratic votes flood in for the unamended Senate bill; conceivably you could see nearly the entire Dem caucus vote yes, which means it would take only 40-50 Republicans to vote with them to pass the Biden/McConnell bill with zero cuts. (One of the earlier updates above suggested that that might be feasible.) What that would mean for Boehner’s Speakership, given that he’ll have violated the “majority of the majority” rule to pass it, I don’t know.

Another possibility: What if the amended bill fails and then the up-or-down vote on the Senate bill fails too? After the failure of Plan B and then the failure of two compromise bills, the narrative tomorrow will be that virtually nothing can pass the House.

Update: Sounds like an up-or-down vote might be coming:

Update: Wow. First time I’ve heard this all day:

Update: Just to underscore my point earlier about what a farce this all is, here’s what the House is mulling as their big counteroffer to the Senate on spending:

If there are enough GOP votes to pass the first approach, the House would amend the fiscal cliff bill and send it back to the Senate, the aide said. A second senior GOP leadership aide said that leaders were mulling adding $300 billion in spending cuts to the bill. Details of those cuts weren’t yet available.

That’s $300 billion over 10 years, I take it, or $30 billion annually. Now, go look at this graphic at Zero Hedge and see for yourself how much $30 billion is relative to the annual deficits we’re running these days. This “spending cuts” proposal is a face-saving gesture by the GOP, nothing more. And it still might not pass their own caucus.

Update: Robert Costa says the spending-cuts amendment is in deep trouble:

Can Pelosi deliver 150-170 Democrats? That’s a tall order even for her.

Update: According to GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, the House will vote on the Senate bill sometime tonight. Apparently they couldn’t find 218 Republicans willing to vote for the bill even with a few hundred billion in spending cuts tacked on as an amendment.

Update: I’m honestly shocked:

Remember, the Speaker typically doesn’t vote on bills. He’ll get enough flak from conservative groups if this thing passes with less than a Republican majority that you’d think he wouldn’t want to double down by lending his own vote to the compromise, especially with Cantor publicly opposed to the bill. Either he’s supremely confident that there aren’t 17 Republicans in the caucus willing to block his election as Speaker on Thursday or he’s reached the point where he doesn’t care if they do.

Update: Robert Costa says Boehner’s confident he has 218 from the full House for the Senate bill:

Chuck Todd hears that the vote may come at around 9:30 ET.

Update: Hmmmm:

Update: A footnote from Robert Costa: Allegedly, Boehner will vote only if his vote is needed to get to 218.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the final vote will come at around 11:15 p.m. ET. If you’re sticking around for the end of this charade, you’re a more diligent political junkie than me.

Update: At 11 p.m. ET, it’s a done deal. 257-167, with Democrats providing most of the votes. The Dems split 172-16, Republicans split 85-151. Boehner didn’t come close to satisfying the “majority of the majority” rule, which leaves him on thin ice for Thursday’s Speaker vote. At least he didn’t hide, though: He voted yes tonight, as did Paul Ryan, much to Team Rubio’s delight. Meanwhile, the rest of the leadership team — i.e. Eric Cantor and Kevin McCarthy — voted no, although Cantor waited until the bill had 218 votes to register his meaningless disapproval.

Hard to believe we might have the same leadership in the next Congress as we did for this process, but then not long ago it was also hard to believe we’d have the same leadership in the White House and the Senate in 2013 as we had in 2012. And yet here we are.


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I always pull for the BigTen teams in the bowls.

By most standards, Northern Illinois is “out classed”. But they are ranked. We’ll see.

I think you’re giving Congress way too much credit, there.

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 7:33 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1464544-orange-bowl-2013-how-northern-illinois-offense-will-frustrate-florida-state

davidk on January 1, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Can.I.be.in.the.middle on January 1, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Don’t you have to go back to worshiping Obama? He’d be sad to know that you weren’t bowing before his altar.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 7:47 PM

Unbelievable. 47% who don’t pay taxes, and its being made permanent. Santa Claus lives.

El_Terrible on January 1, 2013 at 7:47 PM

LOL! Now AP gets it. Welcome to conservatism, AP.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:48 PM


I agree nobody cares. But it was always something I stood by and was proud of. Now I’m just done. In my own mind its telling the GOP to shove it I suppose.

And this is why the GOP is shrinking. Not because it’s not “moderate” enough, but because of the hopelessness that results from its constant betrayals of the principles it pretends to stand for. (For me the breaking point was Romney.)

casuist on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

77% of us will see our taxes RISE with this bill. Payroll tax break is eliminated for a good chunk earning over $50k.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Either he’s supremely confident that there aren’t 17 Republicans in the caucus willing to block his election as Speaker on Thursday or he’s reached the point where he doesn’t care if they do.

Option C: He is an elite apparatchik doing as he is told.

ajacksonian on January 1, 2013 at 7:51 PM

…the Senate has not supplied a budget since JugEars has been in the White House…and now at the 11th hour in this situation….they want something to say?….PRESENT…!!!

KOOLAID2 on January 1, 2013 at 7:52 PM

We should all change our party affiliation to the Tea Party?

Oh, that’s right! They caved with Boehner too!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:52 PM

It’s already too late. My girlfriend doesn’t follow politics – she’s a “low-info” voter. Her response on reading the news online today about how a deal hasn’t been reached yet: “Why are Republicans being such a**holes?”

It’s endgame. Republicans have lost all leverage here.

Vyce on January 1, 2013 at 7:29 PM

And you’re still dating her? She better have some impressive redeeming qualities, because from what little you just said about her, she’s pretty repulsive from an intellectual perspective.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

77% of us will see our taxes RISE with this bill. Payroll tax break is eliminated for a good chunk earning over $50k.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

The payroll tax cut was a bad idea from the start. It reduced the nearly bankrupt Social Security fund. The Dems likes it because it gave the 47% a tsx “cut.” Now they’ll have to contribute a little more to their SS benefits.

Wethal on January 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

feh

ted c on January 1, 2013 at 7:54 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1464544-orange-bowl-2013-how-northern-illinois-offense-will-frustrate-florida-state

davidk on January 1, 2013 at 7:46 PM

.
HEY … I don’t mind being wrong: )

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 7:54 PM

With the passage of this bill goes the House in 2014.

Even once the American public catches wind that their taxes went up, they won’t turn to the Republicans who caved and turned their backs on them.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:54 PM

So a majority of Republicans oppose the bill. At least there’s that. Boehner and his idiots can go hang.

casuist on January 1, 2013 at 7:55 PM

But sadly, the wisdom and logic of the founders presupposed a virtuous populace. It appears that we no longer meet that criterion.

bofh on January 1, 2013 at 7:40 PM

That was the genius of the Frankfurt School, Gramscii and their spawn. They recognized this and set out to game it, to deconstruct it, and to set it up against itself, in order to defeat it from within. They won political power by transforming the culture.

petefrt on January 1, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Umm.. McConnell is more effective than Boehner although he is always whining to Biden for more candy. Just vote for Cantor already.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 7:55 PM

I usually agree with Krauthammer, but tonight he did not make sense to me. First of all he said he hated the deal, but then it would be bad for Republicans if it did not pass…but they should maybe not pass it and then on Thursday when the new Congress begins pass a NEW bill to cut spending and cut taxes blah blah blah…But on Thursday there will be the same President, the same Majority leader in the Senate, and more Democrats in Congress……a new bill would just go the way of all the other bills that Harry Reid refused to bring up for a vote.

I want spending cuts too, but this bill is not about that..it is about making 99% of the Bush tax cuts permanent. The Republicans will have a better chance of getting cuts then because Obama will have less leverage.

I am afraid that if Republicans do not pass this, the Tea Party will be blamed, the GOP will be blamed and they still will not get their spending cuts and taxes will go up even more.

Terrye on January 1, 2013 at 7:09 PM

WHO CARES ABOUT THE STUPID REPUBLICANS!

This is about the country, and our future, not about the political gains of a feckless party that has gone over to the other side.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Can’t you just fathom the nausea-inducing quality of the Obysmal “State of the Union” speech?

We have no statesmen leading our country.

onlineanalyst on January 1, 2013 at 7:56 PM

LOL! Now AP gets it. Welcome to conservatism, AP.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:48 PM

I must’ve missed it; I’ve seen nothing here to suggest AP gets it a bit.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 7:57 PM

#bitchslapped

Can.I.be.in.the.middle on January 1, 2013 at 7:57 PM


We should all change our party affiliation to the Tea Party?

Oh, that’s right! They caved with Boehner too!

No, they did not. Boehner as it stands must count on 170 Democrat votes to pass the Senate bill as he cannot deliver a majority of GOPers, which means not only are the Tea Partiers balking, but a lot of other representatives too.

casuist on January 1, 2013 at 7:57 PM

It’s already too late. My girlfriend doesn’t follow politics – she’s a “low-info” voter. Her response on reading the news online today about how a deal hasn’t been reached yet: “Why are Republicans being such a**holes?”

It’s endgame. Republicans have lost all leverage here.

Vyce on January 1, 2013 at 7:29 PM

And you’re still dating her? She better have some impressive redeeming qualities, because from what little you just said about her, she’s pretty repulsive from an intellectual perspective.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Vyce is a low-info voter as well. He’s still writing the unpublished tome “Great Moderates in American History.”

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 7:57 PM

This is about the country, and our future, not about the political gains of a feckless party that has gone over to the other side.

Thread winner!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Vyce on January 1, 2013 at 7:29 PM

.
And you’re still dating her? She better have some impressive redeeming qualities, because from what little you just said about her, she’s pretty repulsive from an intellectual perspective.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

.
How ’bout Carville and Madeleine?

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Time for a conservative party..i am very tired of these spineless republicans

sadsushi on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Headline:

Boehner turns to Democrats for support on Fiscal Cliff deal

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 7:59 PM

.
HEY … I don’t mind being wrong … : )

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Although I’m an l-noi boi, I don’t really have a dog in the fight. I just ran across the snark from the Orange Bowl official and googled Orange Bowel.

I was surprised to see Northern was ranked.

davidk on January 1, 2013 at 7:59 PM

sadsushi on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

We have bingo! Well said!

Danielvito on January 1, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Update: Robert Costa says Boehner’s confident he has 218 from the full House for the Senate bill:

So he not only has abandoned the “no tax hikes” principle, but also the “majority of the majority” principle, too. Words fail me. (or at least ones that would not get me banned here.)

Wethal on January 1, 2013 at 8:00 PM

How ’bout Carville and Madeleine?

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Carville isn’t low-info. He’s the enemy, and he’s very smart.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Boehner turns to Democrats for support on Fiscal Cliff deal

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 7:59 PM

If he does that, he’s TOAST.

petefrt on January 1, 2013 at 8:00 PM

I have a feeling we’ll have a new Speaker in the aftermath of this.

gophergirl on January 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM


Boehner turns to Democrats for support on Fiscal Cliff deal

Which implies that a majority of Republicans rejected the bill. Good. At least there’s that.

casuist on January 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM

At least Boehner has taken the mask off to stand with the Democrats.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM

If he does that, he’s TOAST.

petefrt on January 1, 2013 at 8:00 PM

I think he knows he is.

gophergirl on January 1, 2013 at 8:02 PM

We should all change our party affiliation to the Tea Party?

Oh, that’s right! They caved with Boehner too!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:52 PM

The turd that won’t flush.

davidk on January 1, 2013 at 8:02 PM

LIB SID!

Who is John Galt on January 1, 2013 at 8:02 PM

What happens when ‘compromise’ finally doesn’t work?

That has been the Elite mantra of… decades at least… that ‘compromise’ always leads to a solution ‘everyone can live with’. Save that ‘everyone can live with’ raises the debt of the government continually and is just a bribe system fettering our children with debt they can’t pay off and making their lives worse, not better.

Perhaps, just perhaps, when the Elites on both sides of the aisle can no longer ‘compromise’ the system will, finally, lock up tight and real arguments, perhaps even fistfights, will be seen in Congress as the finger-pointing, blaming, and utterly vile system starts to consume itself.

Meanwhile: popcorn, much more popcorn if that does happen.

Perhaps this can, finally, end the ‘compromise is best for everyone’ meme once it the Elites fail to deliver it.

One can hope, at least.

ajacksonian on January 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM

I absolutely DETEST Boehner! He is the worst House leader in my time–just as Obama is the worst president in my time. I, however, expect Obama to be who he is. I expect Boehner to stand up and fight for those of us who elected him! What a wuss.

AnnaS on January 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Hoppes #9.

wolly4321 on January 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Democrat narrative in 2014.

Republicans are obstructionists who are out of ideas, and raised your taxes. And because the Rs are incapable of messaging back, the low information voter will lap it up and vote them out.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Enough politics for one day. I think I’ll go read some poetry, starting with one of my favorite American poets, ee cummings, the fellow who wrote A Politician:

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man.

Drained Brain on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

This is about the country, and our future, not about the political gains of a feckless party that has gone over to the other side.

Thread winner!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

I do not think that getting 99% of the Bush tax cuts made permanent is going over the other side. This is only part of the battle on spending cuts and if Republicans are stupid enough to say no to this bill then they will be blamed and the people will see to it that they pay.

It is not about political gain, it is about being prudent, rational, responsible and showing some capacity for governance…If they blow this up..there will be no big spending cuts in the main drivers of our debt, taxes will go up and the economy will suffer. That is not what people put them in office to do. If they can not manage to govern, then they should do something else for a living. Like maybe get a job on talk radio where the only thing they will have to run is their mouths.

Terrye on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Just pass the damn thing already. This is just getting silly.

SoulGlo on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Hoppes #9.

wolly4321 on January 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Gunzilla for me, please! Gots corrosive ammo to deal with… smells better, too.

ajacksonian on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

77% of us will see our taxes RISE with this bill. Payroll tax break is eliminated for a good chunk earning over $50k.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Oh, boo-hoo! So, you think that you should be entitled to Social Security and Medicare for free? Spoken like a Prog, who believes that we should turn both SS/MC into welfare programmes and send the bill to the “evil rich.” Well, let me tell you something, luv, there aren’t enough rich people — or, indeed, people — to keep you in the style to which you believe you should be accustomed for “free”!

If you lived in the UK and made $50,000, you’d be paying ~ $10,500 in income taxes, $6,039 in National Insurance taxes, a 20% VAT, council taxes, and other assorted taxes. The US has the most progressive tax system in the world so consider yourself lucky that you are only having your payroll taxes returning to what they were 2 years ago.

The US’ whole “we want a European welfare hammock, but American tax system” is soon going to crash and the middle class had better wise up and fast. Just as Willie Sutton robbed banks “because that’s where the money (was),” governments rob the middle class because that’s where the money is.

So, cry me a bloody river already! If you don’t want to pay payroll taxes, eliminate SS/MC.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Hoppes #9.

wolly4321 on January 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Gunzilla.

Mr. Arrogant on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

If he does that, he’s TOAST.

petefrt on January 1, 2013 at 8:00 PM

And so are we.

I couldn’t care less about his political future at this point. I want the entire process, system, and city of Washington FLUSHED.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

The turd that won’t flush.

Maybe so, but the Tea Party faithful have by-in-large sided with Boehner and have been absolutely silent the last few days.

What a farce that group turned out to be.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Time to go get some hot chocolate – grab the quilt and get ready for the Orange Bowl.

My head hurts from all of this.

gophergirl on January 1, 2013 at 8:06 PM

These two parties deserve each other and now they shall get what they have set us up for: pain, much pain.

ajacksonian on January 1, 2013 at 8:06 PM

This right here is why I quit the Republican Party years ago, they have become the Enemy

No on this bill, you will get nothing. Pack it up and go home. Screw Reid, Pelosi, Barky and all the moochers.

They are all enemies of our Country.

D-fusit on January 1, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Spoken like a Prog…

I thought conservatives were for lower taxes? I guess you’ve got a serious man-crush on Boehner.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:08 PM

What a farce that group turned out to be.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Then the only option is to re-elect Obama.

He doesn’t even hit the bowl…

Electrongod on January 1, 2013 at 8:08 PM

I do not think that getting 99% of the Bush tax cuts made permanent is going over the other side. This is only part of the battle on spending cuts and if Republicans are stupid enough to say no to this bill then they will be blamed and the people will see to it that they pay.

It is not about political gain, it is about being prudent, rational, responsible and showing some capacity for governance…If they blow this up..there will be no big spending cuts in the main drivers of our debt, taxes will go up and the economy will suffer. That is not what people put them in office to do. If they can not manage to govern, then they should do something else for a living. Like maybe get a job on talk radio where the only thing they will have to run is their mouths.

Terrye on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

An absolutely ignorant post. Frankly, I can’t believe you’re naive enough to believe that the Dems would stand for a permanent tax cut. It’s Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown all over again. How does the turf taste?

By passing this bill, the Republicans cede the narrative to the left, namely, that the problem can be solved by raising taxes. It’s clear to conservatives that the real problem is a spending problem.

Speaking of taxes, they are ALREADY going up thanks to OCare which was permitted by the feckless MITCH MCCONNELL, the REPUBLICAN Senate Minority Leader.

In short, you err by assuming that ‘getting something done’ actually means something. It doesn’t. Better to keep the powder dry and show some guts for once.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Romney didnt help, but I was willing to give it a chance to not break my spirits.

I agree nobody cares. But it was always something I stood by and was proud of. Now I’m just done. In my own mind its telling the GOP to shove it I suppose.

tyketto on January 1, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I hear you. I have been far more TEA Party than Republican for some time. Romney was not my first, second, or third choice. But he was a minimal chance to resolve things politically instead of as is apparently necessary, kinetically. Things are going to get nasty right smartly. The Left will over-reach and stir the anger of patient men.

The last straw for me was finding out why the Institutional Republicans were deliberately abetting Democrat election fraud. They signed a nationwide Federal court consent decree in 1982 agreeing not to fight election fraud, and it has been renewed several times.

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/rnc-v-dnc.pdf

I have been waiting for several weeks to change registrations. I [and my family] intend to do it as soon as they finally capitulate to the Democrats. So, depending on the time of day they vote on this, I am expecting to go to the county clerk’s office either tomorrow afternoon or Thursday morning. Since I have been a very active Republican for decades [regular state convention delegate, and have run a (winning) presidential campaign in my county]; I expect it will be noticed. And I will not be reticent in discussing it if asked.

If we all leave at once, it might be noticed. It won’t deter them, but our leaving will be noted. The Institutionals will be overjoyed. But Republicans are approaching a Whig Party moment. I will be watching for a real TEA Party, a Patriot Party, or whatever name is used by a Conservative Party if one arises before the country goes Tango Uniform.

Subotai Bahadur on January 1, 2013 at 8:10 PM

If they blow this up..there will be no big spending cuts in the main drivers of our debt, taxes will go up and the economy will suffer. That is not what people put them in office to do. If they can not manage to govern, then they should do something else for a living. Like maybe get a job on talk radio where the only thing they will have to run is their mouths.

Terrye on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Furthermore…thirty billion dollars a year is NOT a BIG spending cut.

Totally ignorant.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 8:11 PM

If the GOP wants to get any spending cuts a few months from now they’re going to have to be willing to let the government default. Are they? This is the only leverage they have, and they will only have the leverage if the threat is credible.

Mark1971 on January 1, 2013 at 8:12 PM

It’s already too late. My girlfriend doesn’t follow politics – she’s a “low-info” voter. Her response on reading the news online today about how a deal hasn’t been reached yet: “Why are Republicans being such a**holes?”

It’s endgame. Republicans have lost all leverage here.

Vyce on January 1, 2013 at 7:29 PM
——————————————————-
And you’re still dating her? She better have some impressive redeeming qualities, because from what little you just said about her, she’s pretty repulsive from an intellectual perspective.

Midas on January 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Have you no shame Midas? Seriously!!

Can.I.be.in.the.middle on January 1, 2013 at 8:14 PM

If the GOP wants to get any spending cuts a few months from now they’re going to have to be willing to let the government default. Are they? This is the only leverage they have, and they will only have the leverage if the threat is credible.

Mark1971 on January 1, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Absolutely right..they should say dramatic cuts or we will go ahead and default..be as blunt and as tough as possible….not gonna happen though =(

sadsushi on January 1, 2013 at 8:15 PM

All this whining and bellyaching from our side is getting a bit pathetic. When are we gonna suck it up and accept that we’ve lost 4 out of the last 6 national elections? If you don’t like how things are, either get off your butt and do something about it, or pack up your stuff and leave. I’m just tired of all the useless complaining.

tkyang99 on January 1, 2013 at 8:15 PM

How ’bout Carville and Madeleine?

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Madeleine grew up in near convent circumstances and upon encountering Jim’s ragin’ Cajun…

On other, less important, matters, when well over half of the electorate has no clue as to what this entire “fiscal cliff” stuff is about and how we arrived here today, what should we expect?

Common sense prevailing in the halls of Congress? A President who is actually interested in the well-being of the Republic? Voters who read, discuss and challenge the status quo and not buy into the sound bytes and gotcha crap time after time? Elected officials who place principle above personality? Who are willing to risk it all to do good and save the Republic? Maybe follow the dictates of the Constitution instead of the wanton and gluttonous demands of the unwashed masses?

No?

Didn’t think so.

Going to need a much much bigger cloaking device to keep the Gulch from the outsiders.

Or a lot more ammo.

coldwarrior on January 1, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO

So Cantor told caucus he’s oppsd to Sen deal, but stands w/ Boehner. Boehner reportedly yea on deal, however. We shall see how it plays out

Boehner has got it in his head that he has to pass something, anything to avoid the “cliff.” He has never once in this process been adamant in holding the President to spending cuts, except briefly for political theater. What’s really disturbing is to watch guys like Cantor come to that “shocking” realization only now, as his party teeters on the brink of ruin after passing this disaster, and as Boehner bolts from his party and joins hands with Nancy Pelosi – maybe they could do a commercial on the couch together.

Btw, what happens if this thing passes and the market falls 500 points next week when we all find out “what’s in it.”

Tea Party, Rs and Boehner will be hardest hit…and get ready for President Clinton as Boehner just greased the skids for her run in four years. It’s a great day to be a Republican!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:17 PM

77% of us will see our taxes RISE with this bill. Payroll tax break is eliminated for a good chunk earning over $50k.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

This should never have been passed in the first place. Robbing SS to cater to voters.

Barred on January 1, 2013 at 8:17 PM

I do not think that getting 99% of the Bush tax cuts made permanent is going over the other side. This is only part of the battle on spending cuts and if Republicans are stupid enough to say no to this bill then they will be blamed and the people will see to it that they pay.

It is not about political gain, it is about being prudent, rational, responsible and showing some capacity for governance…If they blow this up..there will be no big spending cuts in the main drivers of our debt, taxes will go up and the economy will suffer. That is not what people put them in office to do. If they can not manage to govern, then they should do something else for a living. Like maybe get a job on talk radio where the only thing they will have to run is their mouths.

Terrye on January 1, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Umm.. Don’t care anymore. Why even bother with voting?? Seriously?? ZOMG.. So smarmy jerks like Chris Christie and Jon Huntsman might be allowed to win the Presidency as long as they follow the Democrat line. The U.S. as a whole is starting to look a lot like Illinois.. More free stuff until we go bankrupt like Greece.

BTW, Rubio in his airiness voted against the deal..

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Guys, tonight was the final nail in the coffin. Do you honestly think the GOP will threaten to go over debt limit over spending cuts when they can’t even go over the phony cliff? Spending will not be cut until the bond markrt forces us to. It will be ugly. Who knows when it will happen though.

davemason2k on January 1, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Regardless of the deal, OUR employees in Congress waited until the very last second to pull this piece of crap out of their rears. America is our business, and these losers are endangering it through their fecklessness. Fire them all, every single election, until the message starts to get through politicians’ thick skulls.

Christien on January 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Wethal on January 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Sorry, should have rest of posts. LOL

Barred on January 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM

“The House Republicans have two choices: cut their losses and pass the deal now, or else put up a fight they cannot win and pass the same deal a few days now after being further humiliated,” said a Senate Democratic leadership aide.

So what part of this equation do the Republican not get?
Personally, I’m hoping they go for door #2. Clearly the humiliation of losing the national election apparently hasn’t sunk in, so they need a dollop of “rinse and repeat”.

The House Republicans don’t need a Speaker; they need a community organizer!

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM

This should never have been passed in the first place.

Like the Bush tax cuts? What party do you favor?

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:20 PM

I thought conservatives were for lower taxes? I guess you’ve got a serious man-crush on Boehner.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Don’t give up your day job. They’ll throw tomatoes at you in the comedy club.

I am a libertarian, not a conservative. I am for lower taxes, but I believe in balanced budgets. Americans voted for Big Government. Now, let them pay for it.

If it were up to me, I would eliminate your precious Social Security and Medicare…in their entirety…TODAY…along with every other welfare and subsidy programme of every kind on the Federal level. But, that’s just me. Evidently, you – like the Obamaphone lady – luv you sum of the “Super-Size Me, Obama!” programme, which means: “I want an extra large of everything and give the bill to the guy standing in the queue behind me.”

Because I am a strong WOMAN – not woe-is-me-man – I DESPISE weak and whiny men like Boehner and, apparently, you.

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Shame on the GOP and Romney! Neither were man enough to offer clear spending cuts. They are scared little boys

davemason2k on January 1, 2013 at 8:22 PM

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Don’t you have to go back to worshipping your Messiah?? Barry gets very sad when you don’t spend at least three hours in prayful meditation toward him.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:23 PM

BTW, Rubio in his airiness voted against the deal..

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Ted Cruz has indicated that he would’ve voted against it too.
Good.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Ted Cruz strikes me as an a**. Rubio is really dumb, but he is not a jerk.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:28 PM

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM
Don’t you have to go back to worshipping your Messiah?? Barry gets very sad when you don’t spend at least three hours in prayful meditation toward him.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:23 PM

And barry does not even know that the chump exists. Sad really.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Hoppes #9.

wolly4321 on January 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM

JD Old No. 7

RickB on January 1, 2013 at 8:32 PM

And barry does not even know that the chump exists. Sad really.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Barry is like Santa… He totes knows who has been naughty and nice like a good cult leader.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Quit talking Default! Those are dem words, the Feds have plenty of revenue to service the Federal Debt. No “default” on debt service, unless Obama decides to default.
There just isn’t much left over for the rest of the (unpassed) budget, which means the Administration and it’s Czars would have to make some decisions for once – hahahhahaha!

Default only occurs if OBAMA decides to default. Only if OBAMA decides to DEFAULT!

Who is John Galt on January 1, 2013 at 8:34 PM

77% of us will see our taxes RISE with this bill. Payroll tax break is eliminated for a good chunk earning over $50k.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Good.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Have you no shame Midas? Seriously!!

Can.I.be.in.the.middle on January 1, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Need some Jergens, what with all the handwringing?

Seriously, grow the eff up.

fossten on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Ted Cruz strikes me as an a**. Rubio is really dumb, but he is not a jerk.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Ted Cruz is likely to be a consistent conservative. We Texas conservatives voted for him in HUGE numbers.
You need to get out of Illinois-my former state-since it seems to be doing a number on your ability to think clearly.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

And barry does not even know that the chump exists. Sad really.

VegasRick on January 1, 2013 at 8:29 PM

You and Illinidiva probably voted for Mitt Romney, which make you even sadder.

But cheer up! You still have Mitch McConnell!

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

LIB! SID! TEA Party Forever!

Who is John Galt on January 1, 2013 at 8:36 PM

You and Illinidiva probably voted for Mitt Romney, which make you even sadder.

But cheer up! You still have Mitch McConnell!

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Obama extends Bush warrantless wiretap program

Told ya so.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Good.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Yay, another phony conservative for higher taxes!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:38 PM

I have a feeling we’ll have a new Speaker in the aftermath of this.

gophergirl on January 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM

I think we certainly need one.

In the past I wondered why the Rs never foght the Dems propaganda. Now I’ve decided it’s because they don’t hold their principles dear enough to do so. They’d be fighting tooth and nail if they did.

INC on January 1, 2013 at 8:39 PM

I am a libertarian, not a conservative

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Ted Cruz is likely to be a consistent conservative. We Texas conservatives voted for him in HUGE numbers.
You need to get out of Illinois-my former state-since it seems to be doing a number on your ability to think clearly.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Didn’t he get outpolled by Romney?? Just saying.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Embrace the suck, Dems. You got what you wanted, and I say bully for you.

Christien on January 1, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Yay, another phony conservative for higher taxes!

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Are you kidding? Obama cut payroll taxes on a program that’s already insolvent to give handouts to people who don’t pay federal taxes.

It’s insanity.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I am a libertarian, not a conservative

You’re liberal on economic and social policy, but a libertarian…right.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Yep. I saw you make that prediction, and the little waste of DNA fully deserves having its nose rubbed in it.

Christien on January 1, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I am a libertarian, not a conservative

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Really? So you would end SS/MC?

Resist We Much on January 1, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Obama extends Bush warrantless wiretap program

Told ya so.

Chuck Schick on January 1, 2013 at 8:38 PM

You seem to be fixated on this issue, Chuck.
For the record, I totally disagree with the President on this.

There, happy now?

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Really? So you would end SS/MC?

Calm down. I was quoting you and fumbled. I’m a conservative who actually thinks that principle should come before caving…unlike “libertarians” such as yourself.

newtopia on January 1, 2013 at 8:43 PM

You and Illinidiva probably voted for Mitt Romney, which make you even sadder.

But cheer up! You still have Mitch McConnell!

chumpThreads on January 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Yep.. as a rule I try not to vote for creepy cultists. Heck I wouldn’t have even drank Kool-Aid with Jim Jones… You on the other hand. But heck, please enjoy your lack of original thought and cultish attitudes. Heck, you don’t want to turn out like Winston.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 8:44 PM

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