Fiscal cliff: Does Boehner have the votes? Update: Boehner vs. Cantor? Update: Boehner to vote yes? Report: House has majority for Senate bill; Update: Bill passes, 257-167

posted at 1:23 pm on January 1, 2013 by Allahpundit

I can’t believe this is what we’re doing on our holiday.

Well said, but don’t forget the punchline: Because the Bush tax cuts will be extended for most earners with next to nothing in offsetting spending cuts, the “deficit reduction deal” technically increases the deficit by nearly $4 trillion over the next decade. Bill Kristol, urging the House to vote yes in the interest of avoiding sequester defense cuts, aptly describes it as a “mess”:

The fiscal cliff deal that the Senate passed early this morning is ridiculous in too many ways to count. There seem to be no figures from the Congressional Budget Office and only “very preliminary” figures from the Joint Tax Committee about the real spending and revenue implications. The two month delay of the sequester will make actual governance even more difficult (how is the Pentagon supposed to plan for the rest of the year?). The sequester delay is funded by a gimmick with retirement savings tax rules that is a caricature of what has become of Washington legislation and policy making. Working Americans making less than $400,000 will be shocked when they find that, contrary to promises from both parties, their taxes are in fact going up (the payroll tax). And we will face another cliff when we hit the debt ceiling and the sequester again in two months.

The deal is a sad commentary on our politics today.

Actually, we face two more cliffs, first the sequester/debt ceiling standoff and then another over the next budget continuing resolution. If you’re serious about fiscal sustainability, the stakes couldn’t be lower. To the extent today’s House vote is interesting, it’s interesting as a type of bread-and-circus: Whether they pass the Senate bill today or pass a marginally less dismal deal in a week or two, the only thing that’s interesting about any of this is the facile political suspense of whether Boehner can muster enough Republican votes, whether Biden can keep Pelosi and House Democrats in line, and what it all means for the next zero-stakes confrontation between Obama and the GOP a few months from now. Ultimately, I think The One is the only player here who had appropriate contempt for the process. He knew nothing important would be achieved so he focused on tax hikes to try to diminish the opposition by driving a wedge in their caucus. In the end, he gave a little on the income threshold in exchange for fracturing House Republicans. Not a bad trade short-term.

Anyway. Does Boehner have the votes? Quite possibly, says the Hill:

To assess party loyalty, The Hill analyzed five controversial bills on fiscal matters that sparked outcry from factions on the right and significant defections from House GOP members: a March 15, 2011 stopgap funding bill; an April 14, 2011 bill that averted a government shutdown; an Aug. 1 roll call on the Budget Control Act; a Nov. 17, 2011 “minibus” appropriations measure; and a Feb. 17, 2012 vote to extend the payroll tax holiday. Republican defections ranged from 54 to 101 on these bills.

Despite the GOP infighting, 92 House Republicans didn’t buck leadership on any on of those measures. This group includes leadership lawmakers, committee and subcommittee chairmen and a surprising number of freshman members. Some of Boehner’s loyal legislators include GOP Reps. Cole, Steven LaTourette (Ohio), Pete King (N.Y.), Darrell Issa (Calif.), Gary Miller (Calif.), Tom Marino (Pa.), Jon Runyan (N.J.) and Steve Stivers (Ohio)…

There are an additional 51 House Republicans who broke ranks on only one of the five votes reviewed by The Hill, including GOP Reps. Bob Goodlatte (Va.), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Tom Latham (Iowa), Steve Scalise (La.) and Frank Wolf (Va.).

That’s 143 gettable votes. Even if he lost 22 of those, he’d still have enough left over to keep his promise not to bring something to the floor that isn’t supported by a majority of House Republicans. The intrigue will come if he’s close to the magic number but not quite there. In that case, he’ll have to choose: Does he bring the bill to the floor anyway, risking a revolt in Thursday’s Speaker election, or does he torpedo the bill even though it likely will have majority support among the entire House? The GOP caucus is meeting as I write this to sound out its members, but reportedly they’re planning to have at least one more meeting today before making a decision on whether to vote. Are you not entertained?

Here’s Tom Cole, a Boehner loyalist, telling MSNBC he’ll definitely vote for the bill. He predicted this morning that a majority of House Republicans will vote yes as well. One other subplot to watch out for: How will Paul Ryan vote? He backed Boehner on Plan B, but with Rubio having voted no last night, the anti-tax ante for 2016 contenders has been upped. Ryan’s dilemma is that he wields much more influence over his caucus colleagues than Rubio does over his, so if he peels off, he could take enough with him to jeopardize the bill. Exit question: Democrats are crowing this morning that, having forced the GOP to accept new tax hikes now, it’ll be easier to make them do so again during the debt-ceiling negotiations. Is that true or will it actually be harder next time after Republicans face a backlash from their base and insist that they already checked the tax box back during the fiscal-cliff compromise?

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Update: Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Update: Sure sounds like we’re not going to have a vote today.

Update: More from Politico:

An overwhelming number of House Republicans in a party meeting Tuesday are calling on their leadership to amend the Senate’s bill to avert the fiscal cliff and send it back to the upper chamber, according to several sources in the meeting…

There is also some regret among Republicans about the party defeating Speaker John Boehner’s “Plan B” before the holidays, which would have raised taxes on millionaires, whereas the bill the Senate passed around 2 a.m. New Year’s Day raises taxes on households making more than $450,000…

Emerging as a stick point among House Republicans is how McConnell and Biden delayed the sequester — automatic spending cuts. The two-month delay is being viewed by House Republicans as inadequate in that it doesn’t reduce spending immediately.

Hope they’re ready for the backlash tomorrow when markets open way down and our fair and balanced press corps gets back to work.

Update: At least we’re getting our money’s worth of political suspense from this ridiculous charade.

If Boehner brings the bill to the floor over Cantor’s opposition, does that guarantee a “Boehner vs. Cantor” election for Speaker on Thursday?

Update: A few commenters are grumbling about my backlash point above. Fact: There will be a backlash tomorrow if this doesn’t pass. It is what it is. And that’s fine — it’s worth driving a hard bargain to get something important done, even at the price of a backlash. Just remind me again what “important” goal will be achieved by forcing a new round of negotiations. What sort of spending cuts do you expect to see here? A trillion dollars over 10 years when we’re running trillion-dollar deficits annually? Even if they got Obama to agree to that, why would you believe that future Congresses would allow those cuts to happen down the line? This entire process is an elaborate charade designed to postpone the ultimate reckoning on entitlement reform, and you’re simply not going to wring serious entitlement reform out of the Democrats given the two parties’ current postures. Obama just won reelection; the Democrats expanded their numbers in the House and Senate; entitlement reform remains depressingly unpopular among the public despite attempts to educate them about the role mandatory spending plays in driving the national debt. House Republicans aren’t going to hold out for weeks on end in the futile hope of revamping Medicare against that backdrop while middle-class voters stew over their new, higher tax brackets. Why risk some of the GOP’s small reserve of political capital on a deal that’s only negligibly less terrible than this one? I understand the “let it burn” strategy, to force the public to fully absorb the cost of big government. I don’t understand this one.

A quote from Philip Klein: “There’s a lot to hate in this deal, no doubt. But any honest assessment of it must grapple with the reality of Obama as president, Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader and $4.5 trillion in automatic tax hikes hitting in the new year. With this in mind, I’d rate the deal as objectively bad, but relatively good.”

Update: House Republicans weigh the backlash factor.

Update: If this is true, Boehner’s goal of 120+ Republican votes seems impossible:

Update: And now some pressure on Boehner from the left as a Democratic aide warns that the Senate bill is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition:

“The House Republicans have two choices: cut their losses and pass the deal now, or else put up a fight they cannot win and pass the same deal a few days now after being further humiliated,” said a Senate Democratic leadership aide.

Another senior Democratic aide said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will not reconsider the bill, which passed by a vote of 89 to 8.

“We’re done,” said the aide.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the GOP caucus will huddle at 5:15 ET. Possible outcomes: Boehner has the votes for the Senate plan and brings it to the floor to try to pass it; Boehner *doesn’t* have the votes but brings it to the floor so that House Republicans can add amendments related to spending cuts; Boehner refuses to bring it to the floor. The first outcome seems unlikely and the third would suffer from terrible optics, so expect JB to choose what’s behind door number two.

Update: Good question.

Update: Sounds like Boehner’s going to give the Senate bill a shot — maybe.

In other words, for the Senate bill to come to the floor, something like 15 Republicans have to oppose amending the bill to include spending cuts. Are there 15 in the entire caucus willing to go on record and do that, even if they’re doing it in the interest of trying to pass the Senate bill now and avert fiscal-cliff aftershocks tomorrow?

Update: The strategy here, I assume, is to use the prospective failure of the amended bill to prove to Republicans that nothing except the Senate bill can pass the House. If they can’t get 218 among their own caucus to support extending the negotiations by demanding cuts, then maybe some GOPers who dislike the Senate bill will hold their noses and vote for it.

Update: Yep, sure sounds like that’s what Boehner has in mind. He’s trying to get the Senate bill through:

Update: A Senate Democratic leadership aide reiterates that a vote to amend the bill in the House is effectively a vote to kill the Senate bill. There’ll be no more fiscal cliff action until the new Congress is seated on Thursday. Quote: “The aide added that House Republicans should not have stepped away from White House negotiations if they needed spending reductions to get the deal.”

Update: DrewM wonders if the spending-cuts amendment might fail simply because some critical mass of conservatives refuses to vote for any bill that doesn’t extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone. In other words, they’ll vote no even on an amended bill because it lets taxes go up on earners who make $450K. The amount of spending cuts attached will be irrelevant. If that’s what they end up doing, it’ll be an awfully dangerous gamble. Once the amended bill fails, you’ll see 100+ Democratic votes flood in for the unamended Senate bill; conceivably you could see nearly the entire Dem caucus vote yes, which means it would take only 40-50 Republicans to vote with them to pass the Biden/McConnell bill with zero cuts. (One of the earlier updates above suggested that that might be feasible.) What that would mean for Boehner’s Speakership, given that he’ll have violated the “majority of the majority” rule to pass it, I don’t know.

Another possibility: What if the amended bill fails and then the up-or-down vote on the Senate bill fails too? After the failure of Plan B and then the failure of two compromise bills, the narrative tomorrow will be that virtually nothing can pass the House.

Update: Sounds like an up-or-down vote might be coming:

Update: Wow. First time I’ve heard this all day:

Update: Just to underscore my point earlier about what a farce this all is, here’s what the House is mulling as their big counteroffer to the Senate on spending:

If there are enough GOP votes to pass the first approach, the House would amend the fiscal cliff bill and send it back to the Senate, the aide said. A second senior GOP leadership aide said that leaders were mulling adding $300 billion in spending cuts to the bill. Details of those cuts weren’t yet available.

That’s $300 billion over 10 years, I take it, or $30 billion annually. Now, go look at this graphic at Zero Hedge and see for yourself how much $30 billion is relative to the annual deficits we’re running these days. This “spending cuts” proposal is a face-saving gesture by the GOP, nothing more. And it still might not pass their own caucus.

Update: Robert Costa says the spending-cuts amendment is in deep trouble:

Can Pelosi deliver 150-170 Democrats? That’s a tall order even for her.

Update: According to GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, the House will vote on the Senate bill sometime tonight. Apparently they couldn’t find 218 Republicans willing to vote for the bill even with a few hundred billion in spending cuts tacked on as an amendment.

Update: I’m honestly shocked:

Remember, the Speaker typically doesn’t vote on bills. He’ll get enough flak from conservative groups if this thing passes with less than a Republican majority that you’d think he wouldn’t want to double down by lending his own vote to the compromise, especially with Cantor publicly opposed to the bill. Either he’s supremely confident that there aren’t 17 Republicans in the caucus willing to block his election as Speaker on Thursday or he’s reached the point where he doesn’t care if they do.

Update: Robert Costa says Boehner’s confident he has 218 from the full House for the Senate bill:

Chuck Todd hears that the vote may come at around 9:30 ET.

Update: Hmmmm:

Update: A footnote from Robert Costa: Allegedly, Boehner will vote only if his vote is needed to get to 218.

Update: The word on Twitter is that the final vote will come at around 11:15 p.m. ET. If you’re sticking around for the end of this charade, you’re a more diligent political junkie than me.

Update: At 11 p.m. ET, it’s a done deal. 257-167, with Democrats providing most of the votes. The Dems split 172-16, Republicans split 85-151. Boehner didn’t come close to satisfying the “majority of the majority” rule, which leaves him on thin ice for Thursday’s Speaker vote. At least he didn’t hide, though: He voted yes tonight, as did Paul Ryan, much to Team Rubio’s delight. Meanwhile, the rest of the leadership team — i.e. Eric Cantor and Kevin McCarthy — voted no, although Cantor waited until the bill had 218 votes to register his meaningless disapproval.

Hard to believe we might have the same leadership in the next Congress as we did for this process, but then not long ago it was also hard to believe we’d have the same leadership in the White House and the Senate in 2013 as we had in 2012. And yet here we are.


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And its a tax cut, not a tax hike.

tommy71 on January 1, 2013 at 11:28 PM

It is not a tax cut!

They are just not raising some of the taxes you idiot…

Barred on January 1, 2013 at 11:47 PM

If you’ve got the answers and fortitude to make the case for the free market, then you should, by all means, give me another option. And, regardless of any of the deficiencies of Walker, Rubio, and Rand Paul, I think you’d be hard pressed to argue that any of the 2012 GOP candidates was better – which was the entire point is my post.

besser tot als rot on January 1, 2013 at 11:47 PM

Ummm.. we’re basically screwed. Enjoy President Hillary. Followed by President Jon Huntsman.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:48 PM

bw222 on January 1, 2013 at 11:37 PM

.
Umm.. Sarah Palin lost McCain more votes than she got him.. M’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:39 PM

.
( MEGA-MULTIPLE EXPLETIVES )

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 11:49 PM

There’s no point in voting Republican anymore- may it crash and burn. They no longer have my support. It’s third party for me from here on out.

GMO on January 1, 2013 at 11:49 PM

OK, could we please stop perpetuating the myth that the GOP has ever gained anything by trying to please the media? Watch msnbc tomorrow if you’re still on the fence.

Ronnie on January 1, 2013 at 11:38 PM

It’s not as much pleasing the media as it is fighting the narrative. People are stupid, but they have a limit. If the alphabet networks (which still get *way* more viewership than MSNBC) try to blame the GOP tomorrow, it’ll look like a blatantly transparent lie. Had the GOP blocked this bill, however, people would likely buy it.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Umm.. Sarah Palin lost McCain more votes than she got him.. M’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:39 PM

Can you back that up?

I certainly was not impressed with Paul Enslave-future-Generations Ryan…

astonerii on January 1, 2013 at 11:50 PM

And next week they’ll vote to restrict gun ownership.

lonestar1

Pffft. The GOP had to give in here so they could stand tall on the spending debate in a few months.

No really, the GOP caved in order to be rock-ribbed stalwarts later on, it’s all part of the multidimensional chess being played by the superior intellects who represent us dolts. You wouldn’t understand.

Bishop

If the GOP is smart, they will give in on both of those things. That way they can take those clubs out of Obama’s hands. Oh, and amnesty too. If we let him win enough, we can’t lose.

xblade on January 1, 2013 at 11:50 PM

Umm.. Sarah Palin lost McCain more votes than she got him.. M’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:39 PM

U Wish.

The Rogue Tomato on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

It is not a tax cut!

They are just not raising some of the taxes you idiot…

Barred on January 1, 2013 at 11:47 PM

Except for Hollywood.

VorDaj on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

bw222 on January 1, 2013 at 11:37 PM
.
Umm.. Sarah Palin lost McCain more votes than she got him.. M’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:39 PM

.
( MEGA-MULTIPLE EXPLETIVES )

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 11:49 PM

I already asked her to prove it, but with all the ummms and m’kays, I wouldn’t hold my breath. This ones elevator doesn’t go past the basement.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

1,000+ comments, this is like the old Palin days.

*sniff snuffle*

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Here’s the list….read it and weep…

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll659.xml

tencole on January 1, 2013 at 11:52 PM

It is not a tax cut!

They are just not raising some of the taxes you idiot…

Barred on January 1, 2013 at 11:47 PM

Well, taxes went up today. So, when this bill gets signed, it will be a cut. Technically.

besser tot als rot on January 1, 2013 at 11:52 PM

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 11:45 PM

I thought you weren’t being sarc-but I wasn’t sure. *smiles*

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 11:52 PM

I take some consolation that my Rep was one of the 151 who voted against it and I applaud him and the other 150 for voting no. If there’s a challenge for House Speaker I’d guess he’s with Cantor and McCarthy since he’s McCarthy’s deputy whip. Can only hope that the disaster this causes can eventually be pinned on the Dembeciles. I know it’s a longshot but it don’t cost anything to dream.

stukinIL4now on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

1,000+ comments, this is like the old Palin days.

*sniff snuffle*

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

If only Palin ran….if only.

tencole on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

I already asked her to prove it, but with all the ummms and m’kays, I wouldn’t hold my breath. This ones elevator doesn’t go past the basement.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

I enjoy taunting people I disagree with and generally being obnoxious. It gets the reaction I’m after.. m’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

If the GOP is smart, they will give in on both of those things. That way they can take those clubs out of Obama’s hands. Oh, and amnesty too. If we let him win enough, we can’t lose.

xblade on January 1, 2013 at 11:50 PM

You just added yet another layer to the GOP chess game.

Just think, if we allow Bark to confiscate all the guns then we can work on getting them back and the GOP will have a platform to run on for the next 30 years.

Pure genius.

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Ummm.. we’re basically screwed. Enjoy President Hillary. Followed by President Jon Huntsman.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:48 PM

And with all her health problems, both real and imagined, that old Bat will be plenty cranky in another 4 years.

VorDaj on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

She’s a know-it-all.
McCain would’ve lost by MUCH more had Palin not been on the ticket. that’s a given.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

1,000+ comments, this is like the old Palin days.

*sniff snuffle*

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

.
Yeah, the sentimentallity just gets you right in the gut, don’t it? … : )

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

It’s not as much pleasing the media as it is fighting the narrative. People are stupid, but they have a limit. If the alphabet networks (which still get *way* more viewership than MSNBC) try to blame the GOP tomorrow, it’ll look like a blatantly transparent lie. Had the GOP blocked this bill, however, people would likely buy it.

You give the idiocracy American voting public too much credit. We live in a land of sheep waiting for their government pittance.

GMO on January 1, 2013 at 11:56 PM

And with all her health problems, both real and imagined, that old Bat will be plenty cranky in another 4 years.

VorDaj on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Okay… well President Jon Huntsman.. Shivers.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:56 PM

I already asked her to prove it, but with all the ummms and m’kays, I wouldn’t hold my breath. This ones elevator doesn’t go past the basement.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

I enjoy taunting people I disagree with and generally being obnoxious. It gets the reaction I’m after.. m’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

You come off as generally being stupid, apparently not what you were going for, honey.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:57 PM

The GOP has done more damage to themselves tonight! The midterm elections will be a bllodbath just like 2006. Bank on it!

jjnco73 on January 1, 2013 at 11:57 PM

This is strange. I just looked out back and noticed a few of my rifles are digging in the yard and burying themselves.

What do they know that I don’t?

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 11:58 PM

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 11:45 PM

.
I thought you weren’t being sarc-but I wasn’t sure. *smiles*

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 11:52 PM

.
Thank you … I’m just as disgusted with all of the “deserters”, as you are. . : (

listens2glenn on January 1, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Ummm.. we’re basically screwed. Enjoy President Hillary. Followed by President Jon Huntsman.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Both of whom would be much better than Obama. And comparable to Romney (except I think Huntsman would be better than Romney). But, I think someone who can make the case for and promote free market principles could get us back on course, or at least in that direction. While Walker, Rubio, and Rand Paul are far from perfect or ideal, I would be happy with any one of them (which isn’t to say that I’d defend every stupid decision that they’d make, like the leftist lemmings – or many in the GOP who were quick to defend anything done by Bush or Romney).

besser tot als rot on January 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

Lovely, now Democrats get to take most of the credit for a tax cut and if anything goes wrong, they can assign some fault to Republicans for the failures of liberalism due to a “bipartisan” vote.

On the other hand, the far left is probably grinding their teeth that the man they elected to get rid of The Boosh Tax Cuts For The Wealthy™ anointed himself the savior of the same. It doesn’t matter, since they’ll vote for any pond scum the Democratic primaries pour their way, regardless of how mad they are at the moment.

mintycrys on January 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

She’s a know-it-all.
McCain would’ve lost by MUCH more had Palin not been on the ticket. that’s a given.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Well, you’re a character. And, I agree. The fire started when she stepped into the ring.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

The vote is what it is. I’m not sure what folks were expecting, but I don’t see any good options here.

The bright side is, 2014 and 2016 are a long way, and a whole lot of crap happening, from now. One of the things it is safe to predict is that the Democrats are going to run out of 0bamaphone money between now and then. Because right now, there is nothing that will fix the deficit until we get a handle on spending. And the Democrats are too busy bribing to want to cut spending.

Even monetizing the debt will end up cutting services and products available to the welfare class. When the 0bamaphone is a POS held together with duct tape, all the worthless food stamp allotment will buy is bread and peanut butter, and the Section 8 landlords can’t afford the plumber, the riots start.

Sekhmet on January 2, 2013 at 12:00 AM

You come off as generally being stupid, apparently not what you were going for, honey.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:57 PM

Because I disagree with you?? Seriously, thinking Sarah Palin is a plausible President is really dumb.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:00 AM

I enjoy taunting people I disagree with and generally being obnoxious. It gets the reaction I’m after.. m’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

So you can’t prove it. M’kay.

rrpjr on January 2, 2013 at 12:00 AM

If the alphabet networks (which still get *way* more viewership than MSNBC) try to blame the GOP tomorrow, it’ll look like a blatantly transparent lie.

Good Solid B-Plus

You mean the way they spun the Bush tax cuts as bad for a decade but now spin them as good and necessary was revealed as a blatantly transparent lie?

xblade on January 2, 2013 at 12:01 AM

2 out of 3 NE Congressmen voted nay but of course the one from my District voted aye.

*facedesk*

Yakko77 on January 2, 2013 at 12:02 AM

You come off as generally being stupid, apparently not what you were going for, honey.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:57 PM

Because I disagree with you?? Seriously, thinking Sarah Palin is a plausible President is really dumb.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:00 AM

No. Because you can’t PROVE your statement and you sound like an idiot with your ummms and m’kays, dear

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:02 AM

I’ve never been a third party guy….that is changing now.

Big Orange on January 2, 2013 at 12:03 AM

Bishop on January 1, 2013 at 11:58 PM

They are digging in for the long fight.

MarshFox on January 2, 2013 at 12:03 AM

Umm.. Sarah Palin lost McCain more votes than she got him.. M’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:39 PM

I guess you don’t remember McCain addressing campaign audiences of 50 – 100 before Palin was named to the ticket. Also, if you check Rasmussen’s 2008 daily polling, you will find that the ONLY time McCain led Obama was from the time Palin was named to the ticket until McCain suspended his campaign for TARP.

Hillary was the most admired woman in a recent poll and Michelle Obama was second. Sarah Palin was #5. I presume you and Bluegill were #3 and #4.

There is no one blinder than an envious woman.

bw222 on January 2, 2013 at 12:03 AM

I already asked her to prove it, but with all the ummms and m’kays, I wouldn’t hold my breath. This ones elevator doesn’t go past the basement.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

I enjoy taunting people I disagree with and generally being obnoxious. It gets the reaction I’m after.. m’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

You come off as generally being stupid, apparently not what you were going for, honey.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:57 PM

Especially when she could read this and learn something: http://terrancethisisstupidstuff.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/sarah-palin-strongest-vote-winning-vice.html

theotherone on January 2, 2013 at 12:03 AM

The vote is what it is. I’m not sure what folks were expecting, but I don’t see any good options here.

Sekhmet on January 2, 2013 at 12:00 AM

.
All I want is “absolute idealistic perfection”.

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:04 AM

Well, Todd Akin voted no.

Vince on January 2, 2013 at 12:04 AM

Well, you’re a character. And, I agree. The fire started when she stepped into the ring.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

By ‘she’ I meant illindiva-not Palin.
illinidiva informed me on another thread that she thinks that Ted Cruz is an idiot. Well, we Texan conservatives voted for that ‘idiot’ by a HUGE margin.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:05 AM

All I want is “absolute idealistic perfection”.

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:04 AM

This^^^.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:07 AM

You mean the way they spun the Bush tax cuts as bad for a decade but now spin them as good and necessary was revealed as a blatantly transparent lie?

xblade on January 2, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Well even with the lies, Bush won in 2004. That’s the point; we can’t always win, but we can fight the narrative.

I’d love a new electorate, but we’re not going to get one, so we need to win with this one in 2014 and 2016. It never helps the give the Dems free ammo.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 2, 2013 at 12:07 AM

Both of whom would be much better than Obama. And comparable to Romney (except I think Huntsman would be better than Romney). But, I think someone who can make the case for and promote free market principles could get us back on course, or at least in that direction. While Walker, Rubio, and Rand Paul are far from perfect or ideal, I would be happy with any one of them (which isn’t to say that I’d defend every stupid decision that they’d make, like the leftist lemmings – or many in the GOP who were quick to defend anything done by Bush or Romney).

besser tot als rot on January 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

Umm.. Seriously, Jon Huntsman is a less orange, straight version of Charlie Crist. He hates the Republican party and says it basically has no soul. Romney was a moderate Republican, but he didn’t trash the Republican Party. There is a difference between jerky careerists and actual moderate Republicans. I’m a fan of Mark Kirk. In fact, I agree with him quite a bit.

As for my annoyance with Ryan, his vote wasn’t necessary and he got absolutely nothing for it. It was really stupid politics. Cantor was smart; he waited for the bill to pass and then voted against it. Now were stuck with the incredible lightness of being that is Marco Rubio in 2016. I guess that Ryan never wants to get his budget signed into law.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:07 AM

annoyinglittletwerp on January 1, 2013 at 11:54 PM

.
Well, you’re a character. And, I agree. The fire started when she stepped into the ring.

RovesChins on January 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

.
. . . . . and really hasn’t gone out, since.

I could even say it’s gotten more intense.

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:07 AM

100% Proof that Romney Ryan was all just a set up to assure Obama a second term.

We have met the enemy and the enemy is ourselves.

The Democrats consist of 87 in the House who lie they are Republicans and most in the Senate lie they are Republicans but in reality are Democrats.

There is only one way out of this GOD.

You had better repent and start praying or you will soon be forced to pray to the Antichrist or die.

Steveangell on January 2, 2013 at 12:09 AM

Still waiting on that proof, honey. And, could you be a dear and fetch me a cup of coffee while you’re at it?

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

By ‘she’ I meant illindiva-not Palin.
illinidiva informed me on another thread that she thinks that Ted Cruz is an idiot. Well, we Texan conservatives voted for that ‘idiot’ by a HUGE margin.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:05 AM

It was this thread honey.. And I said that I thought Cruz comes off like a jerk. Which I still think he does.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

All I want is “absolute idealistic perfection”.

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:04 AM

.
This^^^.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:07 AM

.
Alright, now that WAS sarcasm. . : )

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

It’s not as much pleasing the media as it is fighting the narrative. People are stupid, but they have a limit.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Exactly. The lies and strawmen perpetuated by the statists and press (birm) go unchallenged and make their way into the public psyche as truth. Until it becomes socially unacceptable to even voice support for individualism, the free market, capitalism, the GOP, etc. That is where we are now. We need someone to push back against this narrative, this culture. Romney absolutely refused to do it. Which is so very annoying because the presidential candidate has a platform like no other out of power politician.

besser tot als rot on January 2, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Here’s the list….read it and weep…

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll659.xml

tencole on January 1, 2013 at 11:52 PM

I can’t believe it, my guy (Pete Sessions) voted for it. His office will be getting a call from me tomorrow.

Ward Cleaver on January 2, 2013 at 12:11 AM

It was this thread honey.. And I said that I thought Cruz comes off like a jerk. Which I still think he does.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

Whatevs, sweetheart.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:12 AM

It was this thread honey.. And I said that I thought Cruz comes off like a jerk. Which I still think he does.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

.
You called ‘twerp honey ? !
.
TAKE COVER ! ! !

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:12 AM

Wow, these politicians really do think we’re stupid.
Give them more soma, more legalized marijuana, free contraceptives & we’ll all shut up.
I guess Fluke is happy with her free BCP’s.
Looking out for the middle class in this bill?!?
Loads of pork.
2% payroll tax increase.
Obamanocare largest tax increase in US history.
Minus the exemptions to Obama’s buddies.
& all of Congress & the Judicial branch.
I think they should make Justice Roberts pay triple for his judicial activism.

Belle on January 2, 2013 at 12:13 AM

besser tot als rot on January 2, 2013 at 12:11 AM

That sums up where we are.

rrpjr on January 2, 2013 at 12:13 AM

What a way to start the year. With such support on the Hill we are sure to make the Donks tremble. Seven of Nine was right….sleep on that for the next four years.

Limerick on January 2, 2013 at 12:13 AM

Pffft. The GOP had to give in here so they could stand tall on the spending debate in a few months.

No really, the GOP caved in order to be rock-ribbed stalwarts later on, it’s all part of the multidimensional chess being played by the superior intellects who represent us dolts. You wouldn’t understand.

Bishop

Pure gold.

newtopia on January 2, 2013 at 12:13 AM

I enjoy taunting people I disagree with and generally being obnoxious. It gets the reaction I’m after.. m’kay.

Illinidiva on January 1, 2013 at 11:53 PM

Two weeks ago you were chastizing those of us who said Paul Ryan wasn’t a true conservative. My guess is that being obnoxious comes naturally.

bw222 on January 2, 2013 at 12:14 AM

By ‘she’ I meant illindiva-not Palin.
illinidiva informed me on another thread that she thinks that Ted Cruz is an idiot. Well, we Texan conservatives voted for that ‘idiot’ by a HUGE margin.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:05 AM

It was this thread honey.. And I said that I thought Cruz comes off like a jerk. Which I still think he does.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

Hey, make me a sammich while you’re fetching my coffee.
And, still waiting for your proof. We already know you are jealous of attractive women.

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:14 AM

There is only one way out of this GOD.

You had better repent and start praying or you will soon be forced to pray to the Antichrist or die.

Steveangell on January 2, 2013 at 12:09 AM

Does carnival music play inside your head, Steve?

Chuck Schick on January 2, 2013 at 12:15 AM

We all get to wake up to GMA headlining Barry’s great moral victory over the trog Republicans! Tums, anyone?

Limerick on January 2, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Both of whom would be much better than Obama.

besser tot als rot

Huntsman maybe, but Hillary would be no better than Obama. She’s as big a liberal idiot as he is.

xblade on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

Can anyone explain why Ron Paul did not vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

And the think the “deal” is probably seven lines on a cocktail napkin. Now it is up to the backroom aides to put together the other 21,000 pages of it so somebody can read through it by 2024. Wonderful. Negotiate! Make the deal to keep us…um…someplace. Perfect.

Fumbles with my lighter.

Limerick on January 2, 2013 at 12:18 AM

If the alphabet networks (which still get *way* more viewership than MSNBC) try to blame the GOP tomorrow, it’ll look like a blatantly transparent lie.

Good Solid B-Plus on January 1, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Hahahahahahahaha. You’re killin’ me, man.

They (LSM, “low-info voters”, and GOPe) hate us. Deal with it. Nothing we can do will change their narrative, nor cause them to give us a fair shake. Sorry to say that, but hey, it is what it is. The country is so polarized now that there is no point in trying to curry favor – it only demeans, fragments, and further weakens us.

bofh on January 2, 2013 at 12:18 AM

Both of whom would be much better than Obama.

besser tot als rot

Huntsman maybe, but Hillary would be no better than Obama. She’s as big a liberal idiot as he is.

xblade on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

It would make history, Huntsman vs Hillary, but only because we’d have a hard time figuring who has the hanging chads.

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:18 AM

It was this thread honey.. And I said that I thought Cruz comes off like a jerk. Which I still think he does.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:10 AM

Funny. That’s how 95%+ of us feel about you.

bw222 on January 2, 2013 at 12:18 AM

There is only one way out of this GOD.

You had better repent and start praying or you will soon be forced to pray to the Antichrist or die.

Steveangell on January 2, 2013 at 12:09 AM

Hey Steve, remember before the election, when I suggested that you should take a long walk off a short pier? I’d still be delighted if you did that. *smiles sweetly*

annoyinglittletwerp on January 2, 2013 at 12:18 AM

I’ve never been a third party guy….that is changing now.

Big Orange on January 2, 2013 at 12:03 AM

Why?

Let’s be real, here. Virtually no one commenting here is going to be directly affected by tax rates on incomes over $400,000, so the commenters most outrageously outraged by a handful of GOP votes for a politically necessary bill are basically taking a public policy position — that raising taxes isn’t the answer and is probably going to hurt more than it helps.

Good for us…we get it. But to talk about hating on the GOP now and voting 3rd party is a little over the top. What did you want…the Republicans to find themselves opposing Obama’s next proposal…a tax cut for the “middle class”? Come on.

This is stupid government but the Demonrats had the votes…nothing to be done. Let’s move on.

Jaibones on January 2, 2013 at 12:19 AM

There is only one way out of this GOD.

You had better repent and start praying or you will soon be forced to pray to the Antichrist or die.

Steveangell on January 2, 2013 at 12:09 AM

There’s a quote about Samuel Colt in there somewhere.

Bishop on January 2, 2013 at 12:19 AM

Two weeks ago you were chastizing those of us who said Paul Ryan wasn’t a true conservative. My guess is that being obnoxious comes naturally.

bw222 on January 2, 2013 at 12:14 AM

I am angry at Ryan for stupid politics. What the hell did he get from that little stunt? Exactly nothing.

Illinidiva on January 2, 2013 at 12:19 AM

A bipartisan fail parade in each chamber of the legislature and a hyperpartisan fraud in the White House.

You’re in good hands, America.

Good Lt on January 2, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Can anyone explain why Ron Paul did not vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

Would you vote for a big steaming pile of shit?

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Does carnival music play inside your head, Steve?

Chuck Schick
on January 2, 2013 at 12:15 AM

.
Can you say “Jesus Is Lord”, Chuck’ ?

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Can anyone explain why Ron Paul did not vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

Would you vote for a big steaming pile of shit?

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Apparently, people do.
Obama won. Twice.

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:21 AM

We all get to wake up to GMA headlining Barry’s great moral victory over the trog Republicans! Tums, anyone?

Limerick on January 2, 2013 at 12:15 AM

So, the same thing we’ve seen every day since Obama was sworn in, then?

You should be used to it by now.

Good Lt on January 2, 2013 at 12:22 AM

Let’s be real, here. Virtually no one commenting here is going to be directly affected by tax rates on incomes over $400,000, so the commenters most outrageously outraged by a handful of GOP votes for a politically necessary bill are basically taking a public policy position — that raising taxes isn’t the answer and is probably going to hurt more than it helps.

Either that or we understand that when there is no one left to target there will be no one left to complain.

Bishop on January 2, 2013 at 12:23 AM

Most statistical analysis suggests that Palin at the minimum had no effect on McCain’s vote totals (as is the case for virtually all VP candidates). At the maximum Palin was a small plus for McCain in rallying the base, particularly in the Midwest. Compared to other VP candidates Palin is easily in the top half.

Whether that has any bearing on her viability as a Presidential candidate is an open question.

Look, Palin has never been my favorite pick for President, but I have never understood the hate for her by other Republicans. I mean I get the hate from the liberals, she refused to abort her Down syndrome baby, and then preferred her daughter marrying a stupid redneck to aborting her grandson. Of course the liberals will hate her, she’s the ultimate rejection of their love affair with killing babies in order to avoid burdens in their own lives. Why Republicans have decided to actually listen to what the media has to say about another Republican is shocking to me. It’s a hundred times worse then that whole “potatoe” incident with Dan Qualye.

I like Palin. She may indeed be ignorant about a lot of policy details, but so what? Obama isn’t any better. President don’t have to be a policy wonk (although I admit I do tend to prefer it). Clinton was a wonk, does that mean I liked him as President? Palin has a value system that matches up with mine (and ordinary Americans) a lot better then most other politicians, Democrat or Republican. Because of that I trust her with power a lot more than I would a Democrat. In fact I trust her more than I would most Republicans.

She’s not stupid, that’s for sure. People calling her that are either sexist or classist. Sure she’s not an intellectual, but so what? Most people aren’t. I’m an intellectual myself, and I think people overrate the intellectual. In my experience intellectuals don’t do enough listening, and spend far too much time thinking that anyone who isn’t as articulate as them must not have anything important to say.

The opposite is true, ordinary people are a lot smarter then given credit, and their choices that are so derided by intellectuals often have a very sensible and reasonable justification for them. It’s just you have to listen to what they say, despite them being rather poor at explaining. You might actually have to ask a few questions to make sure you understand. Heaven forbid that an intellectual ask ordinary people questions, and then actually care what they answer.

While Palin wouldn’t be my first choice, she’d probably make a pretty decent president. And I can’t deny I would love to force her down the Democrats’ throats and make them choke on her.

Sackett on January 2, 2013 at 12:23 AM

Would you vote for a big steaming pile of shit?

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:20 AM

It’s called, voting “no.”

Why didn’t Paul vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:23 AM

Sackett on January 2, 2013 at 12:23 AM

.
Kudos, sir (or madam).

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:24 AM

Can anyone explain why Ron Paul did not vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

Would you vote for a big steaming pile of shit?

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Apparently, people do.
Obama won. Twice.

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Touche(with that little french thingy over the e.)

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:25 AM

Time ta brush up on ye chinese bro.

racquetballer on January 2, 2013 at 12:25 AM

Jaibones on January 2, 2013 at 12:19 AM

It’s not just the vote people are disgusted with. It’s the abject inability, the pusillanimous refusal, to fight the Narratives or drive their own Narratives. It’s been going on for too long, too continuosly. It’s just cost us too much. People are hitting a wall of recognition that it’s hopeless, that these people are too witless, compromised, clueless and pathetic to tolerate anymore. There is no more moving on.

rrpjr on January 2, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Can anyone explain why Ron Paul did not vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM

Politicians don’t really care about legislation if it doesn’t grease their palm. Since he’s retiring and he’s got his, why should he care?
(I probably better duck)

Vince on January 2, 2013 at 12:26 AM

…And yet here we are.

For now. Things can always get worse.

forest on January 2, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Buck Foehner in the 21st Century!!

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:27 AM

I’m ashamed of a lot of republicans right now…620 billion dollars in new taxes, 15 billion in spending cuts..how bad does that look? Totally pathetic….about to get a paper bag and cut out eyes and a mouth and nose on it and put republican and wear it around

sadsushi on January 2, 2013 at 12:27 AM

It’s called, voting “no.”

Why didn’t Paul vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:23 AM

I think he knew the deal was struck weeks ago, and all this uproar was for our entertainment. He was disgusted by both sides.

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:27 AM

Boehner was seen outside the White House minutes after the vote.

BKeyser on January 2, 2013 at 12:27 AM

It’s the abject inability, the pusillanimous refusal, to fight the Narratives or drive their own Narratives. It’s been going on for too long, too continuosly. It’s just cost us too much. People are hitting a wall of recognition that it’s hopeless, that these people are too witless, compromised, clueless and pathetic to tolerate anymore. There is no more moving on.

This. I rarely write to elected officials…I wrote to mine tonight when learning that she too caved for political expediency…and as our district is R+1.

newtopia on January 2, 2013 at 12:28 AM

Can anyone explain why Ron Paul did not vote?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:16 AM
.

Would you vote for a big steaming pile of shit?

msupertas on January 2, 2013 at 12:20 AM

.
Apparently, people do.
Obama won. Twice.

RovesChins on January 2, 2013 at 12:21 AM

.
Rim shot

listens2glenn on January 2, 2013 at 12:28 AM

Politicians don’t really care about legislation if it doesn’t grease their palm. Since he’s retiring and he’s got his, why should he care?
(I probably better duck)

Vince on January 2, 2013 at 12:26 AM

As big a “fiscal” candidate as he was during the primaries, I feel he owed us a vote to show how he stood.

I am disappointed in him and don’t think it reflects good on him.

When the rubber hits the road, you gotta decide.

0bama was the king of the “present” vote.

Maybe Ron Paul is ill?

cane_loader on January 2, 2013 at 12:29 AM

Let’s be real, here. Virtually no one commenting here is going to be directly affected by tax rates on incomes over $400,000, so the commenters most outrageously outraged by a handful of GOP votes for a politically necessary bill are basically taking a public policy position — that raising taxes isn’t the answer and is probably going to hurt more than it helps.

Wrong, champ. Your taxes are going up 2%…should you work for a living. Payroll tax break was not continued. Surprise!

newtopia on January 2, 2013 at 12:30 AM

100% Proof that Romney Ryan was all just a set up to assure Obama a second term.

We have met the enemy and the enemy is ourselves.

The Democrats consist of 87 in the House who lie they are Republicans and most in the Senate lie they are Republicans but in reality are Democrats.

There is only one way out of this GOD.

You had better repent and start praying or you will soon be forced to pray to the Antichrist or die.

Steveangell on January 2, 2013 at 12:09 AM

The loony toons slot machine hits three Stevies…

Remember this “Old & Busted”:

Obama will lose the next debate.

Ryan won the debate this week. In the end Biden came off as a Jackass as did the moderator/friend of Obama.

Unlikely Crowley will want to come off badly. If Obama attempts to interrupt Romney three times every minute as Biden/Raddax did to Biden Romney will handle it like the pro that he is.

Ryan got through to the American people. But it is quite possible that Obama will go in there with the primary objective of making people change the channel or turn off the TV. Biden achieved that quite well but the independents that did so also blamed Biden. Doubt Obama wants that for himself. Will be interesting to see how Obama achieves this. Wag the Dog is a possibility.

But you people are assuming Obama wants to win this election. At this point I am thinking he is not that into winning. Of course for me that is consistent. My worst fear has always been that Romney was preferred by Obama as our next President. Setting up Obama for 2016 and complete control again.

Steveangell on October 13, 2012 at 8:51 PM

Resist We Much on January 2, 2013 at 12:30 AM

The most stupid thing I see in all of this is people trying to create infighting among Republicans. Ok, fine, lets say that House Republicans create the “perfect” bill with a bunch of spending cuts and no tax increases. The Senate would have then said “ok, nice waste of time, now get to work and pass something we can sign off on”. In other words, passing the sort of bill that a lot of people seem to want would be a useless waste of time and energy. If it doesn’t get passed by the Senate and signed by the President, I don’t give a squat how “perfect” it is, it is “perfectly useless”.

If the “true conservatives” gain control of the House, what do people expect them to do? They aren’t going to issue ultimatums to the Senate. The Senate is going to laugh at them. It is going to be like a 12 yo with a pop gun issuing an ultimatum to Al Capone and his gang with submachine guns … and then in 2014 the Republicans would get thrown out of the House wholesale and the “true conservatives” become irrelevant.

The “true conservatives” in this case are being stupid. That is the only word for it. Just plain stupid. They are NOT going to get the Senate to go along with them. All they could have done is refused to do anything and that would GUARANTEE that they all were out of work two years from now.

crosspatch on January 2, 2013 at 12:30 AM

Maybe it is late but I just came up with a perfect solution for all our problems. Instead of trying to save the GOP or form a new political party, both of which are hard work and frankly in the case of a new party will allow the progressives to control the debate for at least a decade, why not conservatives and Rhinos simply join the democrat party in mass.

Don’t laugh…think on it.

It would totally screw the MSM narrative of racism and sexism. Are they going to accuse the democrat party of that? We would keep our conservative small government principles and quickly keep control of the south and midwest, but with the “stigma” of the GOP no longer weighing us down, we could advance it into other states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc., before academia, the MSM, or before even the democrat party leadership could figure out what hell to do. Remember a majority Americans actually still do agree with the vision of low taxes and reduced government spending.

Also don’t forget there are DINOs in the democrat party. Look at
Steny Hoyer, a sometime liberal party politician, however he does not like Pelosi and he has been open to doing something about entitlements or Sen. Joe Manchin a true DINO, both of whom belong to the democrat party because they want to get elected but could be useful to a conservative insurgency within the Democrat party. They would be no different than putting up with RHINOS but without the headache of fighting off the entire system, MSM, etc.

We would have to do it in mass in order to keep the political power we do have now. We would all be “democrats” now. The super big tent party. We could screw up party functions, take over certain leadership positions, wreck conventions for the progressives. If the progressives don’t like this they can always go form their own party. This options should be used if the GOP goes the way of the Whig or Federalist parties. It would be easier to wreck the progressive agenda by invading the Democrat party than forming our own new party. A sort of demographic takeover.

Call it…the Party Crashing Plan….:)

William Eaton on January 2, 2013 at 12:31 AM

So long E.U., here comes A.U. Puke.

Limerick on January 2, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Wind tax credit extended for 1 year? The more you read, the worse it gets.
Deja Vu: Pass the bill so you know what’s in it.
How could the rinos let all this pork in it & still vote for it?
Oh, that’s cause they’re rinos.
Obummer tells them the tea party’s dead, & they believe it.
Of course big government rinos hate conservatives.
All that boo hooing from Boehner “I get it”…it was an act!
Bad enough we lost the election big time. Now this.
But wait, there’s more coming.
Obama knows now for sure he can step on the republicans.
Don’t mind me, I’m upset.

Belle on January 2, 2013 at 12:31 AM

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