George W. Bush continues to destroy privacy rights

posted at 8:31 am on December 29, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

One of the sad, lasting legacies of the previous administration was the destruction of personal liberty and privacy which followed in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. Washington began treating everyone as a suspect, prying into private phone conversations and recording your every move. Unfortunately, though he’s been out of office for more than four years and working with injured veterans on a remote Texas ranch, George W. Bush continues to hold America under his intrusive thumb.

Congress approved a measure Friday that would renew expansive U.S. surveillance authority for five more years, rejecting objections from senators who are concerned the legislation does not adequately protect Americans’ privacy.

The bill passed the Senate 73 to 23…

The lopsided Senate vote authorized a continuation of the government’s ability to eavesdrop on communications inside the United States involving foreign citizens without obtaining a specific warrant for each case.

For the life of me, I can’t figure out how Bush pulled this one off. (I mean, it has to be his fault, right? It couldn’t be the Democrats.) Seventy five votes in the Senate? When the Democrats have more than half the seats and the Majority Leader’s chair? Democrats hate this stuff! It’s the destruction of the American dream. But we can at least take some comfort knowing that President Obama will swat this down like a diseased tsetse fly.

The House approved it in September and President Obama is expected to sign it before the current authority expires on Monday.

Everything old is new again I suppose. The FISA Amendments Act was one of the mostly hotly debated bones of contention in its day, and Democrats made hay over it for a couple of election cycles. But now that they’ve got their hands on the tiller? It’s business as usual, baby.


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well, Bush was sorta a Democrat

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 8:35 AM

If only we had a democrat in the White House to stop the evil destruction of liberty by the republicans.

The Notorious G.O.P on December 29, 2012 at 8:38 AM

One of the sad, lasting legacies of the previous administration was the destruction of personal liberty and privacy which followed in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

Not really. The PATRIOT Act and Department of Homeland Security was a reasonable response to the 9/11 attacks. Only a fool witnesses 3,000 of their people die and then says “Clearly, we must not change policy!”

If it wasn’t for that “destruction of personal liberty” and “invasion of privacy” we never would have gotten Najibullah Zazi.

Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 8:41 AM

I rest easy knowing that the media, Hollywood, and political elites will never be menaced by such laws. /

Liam on December 29, 2012 at 8:42 AM

You need to close that emphasis tag, Jazz.

BigGator5 on December 29, 2012 at 8:43 AM

BigGator5 on December 29, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Correct.

Jazz Shaw on December 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM

In so far as people might think that terrorists are no longer any real threat, I’d offer the following:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/05/39-terror-plots-foiled-since-911-examining-counterterrorisms-success-stories

Some of those were foiled by domestic surveillance. Others had to be foiled by common American citizens. Following the release of that article, I’m also aware of domestic surveillance leading to the apprehension of Jamshid Muhtorov (see: http://www.lawfareblog.com/2012/01/email-surveillance-leads-to-material-support-arrest-in-chicago/)

The Democrats are strictly opportunistic when it comes to when they’re offended by surveillance and when they’re not. We ought to be more consistent and principled than that.

Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 8:57 AM

just goes to prove: dress up invasion of privacy in a Patriot mask, and we’re all for it. Freedom Fries for everyone.

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 8:57 AM

Amusingly enough, Airplane! seems to have been unintentionally prescient when it comes to the Libertarian attitude about terrorism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0WdJx-Wkw

Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 9:01 AM

haha

good clip Stoic Patriot. Looks like the wrong week to park in the Red Zone.

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:03 AM

this is why you don’t elect liberal GOp POTUS. the tools they pass are like catnip to the marxists who wish to control us all.

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Security for the loss of liberty.

wheelgun on December 29, 2012 at 9:04 AM

George W. Bush is also responsible for the gun violence in Chicago…

/

Khun Joe on December 29, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 8:57 AM

I would rather have my liberty then security. Your results may vary.

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 9:05 AM

Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 8:41 AM

It’s fools like you that make a police state not only possible, but inevitable.

single stack on December 29, 2012 at 9:06 AM

It’s fools like you that make a police state not only possible, but inevitable.

single stack on December 29, 2012 at 9:06 AM

So it’s better to be a corpse rather than safe just so no one listens in on my phone calls?

Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Republicans are huge fans of Police States. Always have been. The political spectrum is a circle. Far Left, Far Right – they both wanna control you.

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:10 AM

All part of the plan. Now if Romney won the democratic media complex would again notice it and blame him.

tjexcite on December 29, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Like his father before him George W. Bush was a big government Progressive.

Everytime an American citizen is felt up by a TSA pervert or some Grandmother in a wheelchair is asked to prove her freaking breast implants aren’t bombs….it all goes back to the failure that was George W. Bush. Instead of profiling Muslim males under 40 years of age tens of millions have to have naked pictures or have a crotch rub.

Disgusting.

Every lying politician should have to submit to the same checks average Americans have to endure.

But the biggest failure of Bush? He self castrated the gop and he and his father before him destroyed any “fight” the party had. Now we have incompetent (at best) idiots running the party and a Socialist (at best) in the White House.

The Bushes destroyed the gop.

PappyD61 on December 29, 2012 at 9:17 AM

The Bushes destroyed the gop.

PappyD61 on December 29, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Jeb 2016!

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:22 AM

“I want a kinder, gentler America”—-Bush 41

“Change the tone”—-Bush 43

Dog whistles for I’m going to castrate the party and not launch an effective defense against political attacks from the Democrats. In so doing, people will be pounded by the media that the gop is too blame for every ill we face.

NO MORE BUSHES !

PappyD61 on December 29, 2012 at 9:23 AM

The entire “new” and huge bureaucracy created after 9/11 reminds me of that old joke.

What’s the difference between a light bulb and a pregnant girl?

You can unscrew a light bulb.

Well, in our haste to “do something” after 9/11 we screwed ourselves and it was a bipartisan screwing, too.

It will take decades if not longer to undo the “unintentional” consequences of our desire to have immediate results of immediate legislation when we should have taken a bit more time, and actually thought out and debated what were our intended goals and how best to achieve them.

Bad law, as my old professor said decades ago, bad law, written for all the best of reasons is still bad law.

Do we really need a TSA? A Department of Homeland Security? An Office of the Director of National Intelligence?

None have proven the least bit effective in carrying out their stated goals and missions, nor have any contributed positively to our national security.

In fact, all have made it more difficult to actually accomplish anything to improve our national security and well-being.

All are costing us billions more than envisioned at a scale that we may never fathom.

Blame it on Bush?

Sure.

And blame every American who supported the suborning of basic Rights to some sort of facade of “security.”

coldwarrior on December 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM

I don’t know what Pappy has against shrubbery

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM

I blame Trig Palin. He did cause Andy Sullivan to lose his mind.

rbj on December 29, 2012 at 9:27 AM

single stack,
what parts of the Patriot Act stripped you of your freedom?

rob verdi on December 29, 2012 at 9:30 AM

I do blame bush for patriot act. I also blame biden for writing the damned thing after the OKC bombings.
we are not safer since it was passed. we just gained DHS/TSA.
locking a damned door and not capitulating to terrorists would have prevented the heavy loss of life.

dmacleo on December 29, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Republicans are huge fans of Police States. Always have been. The political spectrum is a circle. Far Left, Far Right – they both wanna control you.
Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:10 AM

Wrong…see video for reason why. Tjem realize that these guys were discredited by establishment conservatives who wanted big government but the “right kind” of big government.

single stack,
what parts of the Patriot Act stripped you of your freedom?

rob verdi on December 29, 2012 at 9:30 AM

Here is your answer from Rand Paul.

I prefer freedom to safety…rats in captivity live longer than wild rats but I don’t think the wild rats would change spots.

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 9:45 AM

You knew something was coming. It’s the weekend before the New Year (see NDAA).

The Oven on December 29, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Here is your answer from Rand Paul.

And yes Jazz it IS George Bush’s fault as he gave them the opening they needed to build their dreamed of police state.

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Dubya also nominated John Roberts.

Starting to see a pattern?

SagebrushPuppet on December 29, 2012 at 9:50 AM

Governments business is to increase its size and influence, that’s why for our founders government was a bane to be tolerated at best but that understanding is lost to the majority.

Speakup on December 29, 2012 at 9:50 AM

single stack,
what parts of the Patriot Act stripped you of your freedom?

rob verdi on December 29, 2012 at 9:30 AM

Which parts give you more security?

wheelgun on December 29, 2012 at 9:51 AM

I read an article on Daily Kos bemoaning the FISA vote and the fact the media hasn’t said a thing about it. I commented that if they wanted the media to complain about the FISA renewal they should have voted for Romney.

Over50 on December 29, 2012 at 9:54 AM

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 9:45 AM

I’m wrong? Go ahead. Tell me how Communism and Fascism aren’t different sides of the same coin.

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Eh, if you want to make an omelet…

Knott Buyinit on December 29, 2012 at 9:57 AM

I’ll hold my breath ;) gotta go Pierre

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:57 AM

The PATRIOT Act and Department of Homeland Security was a reasonable response to the 9/11 attacks. Only a fool witnesses 3,000 of their people die and then says “Clearly, we must not change policy!”

Adding a new bureaucracy the size of DHS is hardly a change in policy that’ll stop the next 3,000 deaths, and the Patriot Act has 58,000 words in it. Are you a supporter of all of it? Or, are there some portions you would argue with?

Only a “fool” would argue with these two responses to 9/11, says you, but I say only a delusional fool would argue so superficially in support of measures that has been used to authorize the routine filming of every car on every highway, 24/7, monitoring of EZ Pass signals on highways, routine capture and storage of every cell call, email and text made in America, routine sharing of citizen tax records (and, soon, medical records) with law enforcement and access to Internet records based only upon investigatory desire. This is way past investigating terrorists, Jihadist or “right wing”.

MTF on December 29, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Both the Democrats and the GOP can truly act in a bipartisan manner when it comes to destroying liberty. DHS and the Patriot Act are both intensely anti-liberty and had big fan boiz in both parties.

Listen peons – we’re going to strip you of a whole bunch of civil rights because we want to keep you safe. Now STFU and FO untermensch.

CorporatePiggy on December 29, 2012 at 10:00 AM

I prefer freedom to safety…rats in captivity live longer than wild rats but I don’t think the wild rats would change spots.

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Grow up and make a choice. You can be safe, or you can be free, but you can’t be both!

And yes Jazz it IS George Bush’s fault as he gave them the opening they needed to build their dreamed of police state.

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 9:47 AM

The Republican center is driven by a short sighted narrow minded pragmatism. They see themselves as professional problem solvers and they’ll focus everything they have on the task of creating the cleverest solution to whatever problem is thrown on their plate. They pride themselves on being masters of the underbrush, but they have no idea where all of their clever solutions are going.
They’re like a man driving down the freeway working on a Rubic’s Cube in his lap. Even if he solves the puzzle, he has no idea where he’s going to end up. The problem for us is that we’re all in this guy’s back seat!

Lew on December 29, 2012 at 10:02 AM

I’ve got no time to think about this potential continuance of liberty infringing legislation. I’m still trying to figure out if I would rather be waterboarded or killed by a drone.

joeeddie on December 29, 2012 at 10:03 AM

Jackboots.

Mr. Arrogant on December 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM

I’ll hold my breath ;) gotta go Pierre
Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:57 AM

Watch the video.

Or consider Heinlein’s quote as a cliff notes version.

Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
Robert A. Heinlein

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM

I don’t know what Pappy has against shrubbery

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Have you ever conversed with a shrubber?

SWalker on December 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Our Orwellian world keeps growing.

Obama is a dangerous wolf in media-manufactured sheep’s clothing.

albill on December 29, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Thanks for enabling the democrats Bush.

astonerii on December 29, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Mr. Arrogant on December 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Trying to figure out why so many of Mr. Arrogant’s comments are getting hung up in the filter and have to be manually approved, even though they contain zero language which should have triggered anything. If anyone else is experiencing similar delays, please let me know.

Jazz Shaw on December 29, 2012 at 10:13 AM

This is a another great quote by Heinlein….

“Political tags–such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth–are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 10:13 AM

To personalize Pierre LeGrand hasn’t lost anyone to terrorism, or, Thankfully, seen a US city vanish in a flash of actinic light. So, to him, LIBERTY is preferable to SAFETY, because he already has the safety….

I would ask Pierre if he thinks Eretz Ysrael is “free” or has Civil Liberties, but I dare say it has much more intrusive secuirty.

Bottom-Line Fudge:
1) I don’t care if the NSA is listening in on your ‘phone call from Yemen, Pierre.
2) Probably much of our “security” is just security theatre, and we are under much less threat than Israel, so on the Liberty/Safety continuum, we probably have shifted too far towards “Safety”-especially as this safety is mostly spurious safety theatre.
3) But it is a continuum, and it’s not Liberty OR Safety… because I’d posit Israel has both, but in some areas Safety wins out.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Taking the bait yet again.
Divide and conquer.
No wonder we lose.

Hint:
Romney lost the election. He is moving on.
Bush is no longer President.

Mimzey on December 29, 2012 at 10:16 AM

There’s only one community the US government should’ve been spying on after 9/11-the Muslims, obviously. It wasn’t the Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Hindus, NRA, The TEA Party, ie-normal Americans (non-muslims) that smashed planes into the towers-yet we’re all being treated like criminals and in essence creating the police state we had fought hard to avoid.

This is what happens when political correctness dominates foreign and domestic policies. After Pearl Harbor the US detained the Japanese rather than treat every American as a threat, which is the rational course to take.

We should be spying on Chinese immigrants or not allow them to work in our high-tech companies-how many of them need to be caught with laptops full of US top secret technology sneaking out of the country before we wise up?

Unfortunately things are getting uglier and uglier because no one wants to acknowledge the truth which is that Islam is today’s Nazism and the greatest threat to the West and the rest of humanity.

thinkagain on December 29, 2012 at 10:28 AM

To personalize Pierre LeGrand hasn’t lost anyone to terrorism, or, Thankfully, seen a US city vanish in a flash of actinic light. So, to him, LIBERTY is preferable to SAFETY, because he already has the safety….

I would ask Pierre if he thinks Eretz Ysrael is “free” or has Civil Liberties, but I dare say it has much more intrusive secuirty.

I don’t give a crap about what Israel does or doesn’t do. I care about the fact that my country is much less free than it was prior to George Bush’s tenure as President. I care about the fact that DHS is a big circle jerk. I care about the fact that DHS was the answer to a Republican administration that couldn’t name the enemy. Indeed instead of naming the enemy the President broke bread with them…

On the afternoon of September 26, George W. Bush gathered 15 prominent Muslim- and Arab-Americans at the White House. With cameras rolling, the president proclaimed that “the teachings of Islam are teachings of peace and good.” It was a critically important moment, a statement to the world that America’s Muslim leaders unambiguously reject the terror committed in Islam’s name.

Unfortunately, many of the leaders present hadn’t unambiguously rejected it. To the president’s left sat Dr. Yahya Basha, president of the American Muslim Council, an organization whose leaders have repeatedly called Hamas “freedom fighters.” Also in attendance was Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, who on the afternoon of September 11 told a Los Angeles public radio audience that “we should put the State of Israel on the suspect list.” And sitting right next to President Bush was Muzammil Siddiqi, president of the Islamic Society of North America, who last fall told a Washington crowd chanting pro-Hezbollah slogans, “America has to learn if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come.” Days later, after a conservative activist confronted Karl Rove with dossiers about some of Bush’s new friends, Rove replied, according to the activist, “I wish I had known before the event took place.”

If the administration was caught unaware, it may be because they placed their trust in one of the right’s most influential activists: Grover Norquist. As president of Americans for Tax Reform, Norquist is best known for his tireless crusades against big government. But one of Norquist’s lesser-known projects over the last few years has been bringing American Muslims into the Republican Party. (snipped for brevity)

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 10:30 AM

I don’t give a crap about what Israel does or doesn’t do.

Of course you don’t because it confounds your argument that one has Either:
1) Liberty; OR
2) Safety.

Just like Gun Controllers don’t like talking about crime statistics in UK or Australia.

You don’t like to talk about it, because it’s a REAL WORLD example/conundrum wherein a society faces a threat and attempts to maintain their security. No ‘libertarian” likes to discuss things like that, because it undercuts their intellectual security.

As I say, because you live in America, you have the security and so you value the liberty more. And you don’t care to get involved in anything beyond quoting Heinlein or Franklin because to get involved in a real world discussion gets your hands dirty and it’s easier and more fun to be “pure.”

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Now I suspect I will be called a “statist” here fairly quickly. “Statist” being the libertarian equivalent of “Fascist” for the Left. And no doubt told to enjoy my time in the concentration camp or the jack boots on my throat, some other rather silly bit of hyperbole.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 10:39 AM

As I say, because you live in America, you have the security and so you value the liberty more. And you don’t care to get involved in anything beyond quoting Heinlein or Franklin because to get involved in a real world discussion gets your hands dirty and it’s easier and more fun to be “pure.”

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 10:37 AM

You think that safety in America “just happened”? You talk about the real world. America isn’t “safe” just because. It is our liberty that has given us our safety. We have been able to secure our own safety because of our liberty. By taking liberty away it makes us less safe. When you give up liberty for security you end with neither. Which part of this is hard to understand?

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 10:51 AM

ITT: We pretend we never liked the PATRIOT Act.

pauljc on December 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM

[Stoic Patriot on December 29, 2012 at 9:01 AM]

Do you know who they intended to imitate with that scene? Carl Rowan.

He was always said facile things like that when he felt he was losing an argument.

Dusty on December 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Eretz Ysrael is “free”

no it is an armed camp surrounded by enemies seeking to destroy it. It has allowed itself to become an armed camp because it will not do what is needed to secure its liberty. So it cowers within its walls hoping that the wolves will leave it in “peace” It further makes things harder by invinting in the wovles within its camp in the hopes of being seen as nice guys while constantly watching what the wolves are doing. It’s a hard way to live. It will end badly I think at some point.

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Uh Really unseen, so that Liberty defeated the Confederacy, defeated Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, stood off the Communists, and now that liberty killed Usama?

Because it looks like the Army of the Potomac, the United States Armed Forces, and several intelligence agencies had something to do with those victories.

We are Free, We are Rich…those are things worth defending…no argument, but please connect the dots of my “liberty” and my “security” as it relates to at least foreign threats.

The best that can be said is a free people is richer and that their government has more legitimacy and hence greater staying power than less free governments. I might further point out that Ci val War/War of Northern Aggression saw rather massive civil liberty abuses as did WWII, and yet the nation remained free….

Again Fascism is ALWAYS descending on us…it just never seems to actually, you know, land.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:02 AM

As I say, because you live in America, you have the security and so you value the liberty more. And you don’t care to get involved in anything beyond quoting Heinlein or Franklin because to get involved in a real world discussion gets your hands dirty and it’s easier and more fun to be “pure.”

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 10:37 AM

What nonsense…you are one of those who like to control others and you will grasp onto any reason to expand that control.

The biggest danger to my safety does not come from Islamic terrorists…it comes from a government that has begun to run wild.

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 11:03 AM

ITT: We pretend we never liked the PATRIOT Act.

pauljc on December 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM

like Tarp, and the Dept of Homeland secuirty. Many of us warned whoever was listening why it was a bad idea. How No child left behind wasn’t anything but a federal power grab to control our nations schools. Many thought because it was a republican pushing all these progeressive ideas it would end well. Several us knew better. It was the same reason we could never get behind Mitt the liberal.

the patriot act is a bridge too far to freedom loving peoples the same as TARP was a bridge too far for those that believed in capitalism.

Of course I don’t think anyone that lives in the Northeast understands what freedom is anymore.

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 11:04 AM

no it is an armed camp surrounded by enemies seeking to destroy it. It has allowed itself to become an armed camp because it will not do what is needed to secure its liberty

That is illogical and ill-thought out, merely bending reality to your rhetorical needs…How does Israel secure it’s liberty amongst those who would destroy it?

Basically you just are writing like Sean Penn, putting words into a certain order that mean something to you, but really have no meaning…

And IF Israel did go away, there would be LESS freedom in the region, not more….

Fundamentally you’re just trying to say, Neeener-Neener I’m not listening”

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:06 AM

The lopsided Senate vote authorized a continuation of the government’s ability to eavesdrop on communications inside the United States involving foreign citizens without obtaining a specific warrant for each case.

Frankly, I don’t see the problem.

Nutstuyu on December 29, 2012 at 11:09 AM

What nonsense…you are one of those who like to control others and you will grasp onto any reason to expand that control.

Of course I am…In your world, which seems much like a LIBERALS world, there isn’t dispute or disagreement…there is GOOD V. EVIL.

You, of course, are GOOD…

those who disagree are EVIL…seeking control.

As to Islamic terrorists I agree, to an extent, but there are 3,000 Americans who might disagree….As I say, since you or yours aren’t amongst that group you see your Security, and fear for your Liberty…

A better argument is “Does this act or would this act, have prevented 9/11?” If the answer is “No” then the burden on your liberty is not justified..if Yes, it may be.

As to warrant-less wire-taps, on foreign calls, legally you NEVER had the presumption of privacy…..so the NSA could always have listened in on your calls, the Congress merely codified a legal theory. And truth to tell, it doesn’t cause me pain that your Yemeni ‘phone calls may not be secure.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:11 AM

And the Obamabot’s that fell for the slick marketing campaign will never understand (and probably never know). I frankly don’t think many of them would really care just for the reason that “their guy” is doing this and well, after all, he would NEVER do anything bad, right? Evil Republican does this and it’s the end to liberty as we know it but a democrat does it and it’s to protect our children and if you’re against it you just want children to DIE (and you’re racist)!

Deets on December 29, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Too bad Rommney didn’t really want to win that last election.

(As if that would have made a difference.)

rdbrewer on December 29, 2012 at 11:13 AM

We are Free, We are Rich…those are things worth defending…no argument, but please connect the dots of my “liberty” and my “security” as it relates to at least foreign threats.

The best that can be said is a free people is richer and that their government has more legitimacy and hence greater staying power than less free governments. I might further point out that Ci val War/War of Northern Aggression saw rather massive civil liberty abuses as did WWII, and yet the nation remained free….

Again Fascism is ALWAYS descending on us…it just never seems to actually, you know, land.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:02 AM </blockquote

We are rich because we are free. that wealth allowed America to out produce Germany and Japan in WW2. Growing up as free individuals produced a better fighting force then the Communists who believed in central control. The wealth and freedom allowed better weapons to be built as defense contractors were giving freedom to design weapon systems. the freedom allowed people to dream of space flight and thus the GPS systems and sats that hover above the world directing our military to threats. All wars see massive civil liberty abuses. thus it is important to decalre war time vs peace time. Are we at war? The congress hasn't decalred one, the government atcs like terrorism is a crime not a act of war. We are free as a nation because free men know the difference between war time and peace time. When we have been at war in the past we did what was needed to secure victory from the threat to our country then we go back to peace time. what the patriot act is gives war time power to the government forever.

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 11:17 AM

But now that they’ve got their hands on the tiller? It’s business as usual, baby.

Shocking!!

(not)

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM

You’re an ASS!

williamg on December 29, 2012 at 11:23 AM

How does Israel secure it’s liberty amongst those who would destroy it?

Basically you just are writing like Sean Penn, putting words into a certain order that mean something to you, but really have no meaning…

And IF Israel did go away, there would be LESS freedom in the region, not more….

Fundamentally you’re just trying to say, Neeener-Neener I’m not listening”

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:06 AM </blockquote

how's that land for peace policy working out? Isreal gave up the gaza strip, the sini, souther lebanon. making it a smaller and smaller armed camp and moving the wolves closer and closer.

Isreal secures its liberty by destorying its enemies. Not by giving away land for false peace in an effort to pacify the wolves who to this day promise to destory them.

Isreal is a prime example of those that give up liberty for securty and end up with neither. Isreal gave up its victories, the land it won that helped to keep the savages at bay for a "supposed security of "peace"" and got nothing but more rockets for it. tighter security measurses, more walls being built, more checkpoints and for what?

At this time in hisotry Isreal has the least amount of safety in their history.

You either take the fight to your enemy and destroy it or make it beg for peace or it destroys you.

bush got it right in a way with fighting them over there but he screwed up the wars and like the patriot act made them neverending.

unseen on December 29, 2012 at 11:24 AM

NO MORE BUSHES !

PappyD61 on December 29, 2012 at 9:23 AM

+1

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Not you, Tim from CA

williamg on December 29, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Now I suspect I will be called a “statist” here fairly quickly. “Statist” being the libertarian equivalent of “Fascist” for the Left. And no doubt told to enjoy my time in the concentration camp or the jack boots on my throat, some other rather silly bit of hyperbole.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 10:39 AM

And anyone doing so would be correct in doing so. In supporting the Patriot Act you have fallen hook line and sinker for the psychological deception at the heart of the Marxist agenda. Ceding to the government the responsibility and authority for your own personal protection. Were you indeed as enamored of the principals inscribed in the United States Constitution and articulated by the Framers as their rational for those articles, rather than accepting the Patriot Act you would have and been demanding that the US Government redact such legal restriction as they have placed upon the individual to provide for their own welfare and self-protection.

Again Fascism is ALWAYS descending on us…it just never seems to actually, you know, land.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Is this not the very same rationalization that the Marxists and fascists employe blind the foolish and easily beguiled into believing that each new assault on their essential liberties and freedoms has not deprived them of those very essential liberties and freedoms, is it not the exactly same justification that they use to continue encroaching upon the rights of free citizens. Why, yes, yes it is.

SWalker on December 29, 2012 at 11:30 AM

It makes it safe so you can entice all the Muslim immigration you can. Where would you get Somalis and other indispensable Muslims flooding in without this safety measure to catch the odd one that “radicalizes”?

BL@KBIRD on December 29, 2012 at 11:34 AM

The lopsided Senate vote authorized a continuation of the government’s ability to eavesdrop on communications inside the United States involving foreign citizens without obtaining a specific warrant for each case.

…and of course there will be absolutely no room for error!…*wink…wink*

KOOLAID2 on December 29, 2012 at 11:52 AM

This kind of crap is always so amusing… in an I-can’t-believe-how-utterly-stupid some people can be. The left has SEIZED our medical records as of 2014, to the extent that if you tell your doctor about your last BM some bureaucrat down at HHS will know its size and consistency! They’ve FORCED religious people to violate their conscience, and forced us all to purchase the commercial insurance product of THEIR choice. The public discussion in Washington for the last two weeks has been about how they’re going to disarm honest citizens. We’ve got a Supreme Court judge who’s not too sure she can’t force-feed us our broccoli. And we’re supposed to get our panties all bunched up because some terrorist might have his phone calls eavesdropped upon?

When these so-called “civil libertarians” have dispensed with the list above, maybe then they’ll have some credibility in order to protect the privacy of those who would consort with terrorists. In the interim…. *yawn*.

Murf76 on December 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM

NO MORE BUSHES !

PappyD61 on December 29, 2012 at 9:23 AM

+1

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 11:26 AM

…NO MORE PENISES either !

KOOLAID2 on December 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Anybody think George W. Bush knows what a “writ of assistance” is?

rdbrewer on December 29, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Not you, Tim from CA

williamg on December 29, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Good Lord with Jeb the amnesty lover waiting in the wings?

Yep….me too!

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 12:06 PM

…NO MORE PENISES either !

KOOLAID2 on December 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM

And that takes care of Johnny Boner.

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM

The continued demonizing of George Bush by our side is one of the reasons we don’t have a President Romney.

SurferDoc on December 29, 2012 at 12:10 PM

You folks may not think Bush has any blame in this, but he did NOTHING to stop it any more than his predecessors did. Obama is just continuing the tradition of the Amerikan police surveillance state. Anyone who thinks this is a free country sees a fool every time they look in the mirror.

woodNfish on December 29, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Adding a new bureaucracy the size of DHS is hardly a change in policy that’ll stop the next 3,000 deaths, and the Patriot Act has 58,000 words in it. Are you a supporter of all of it? Or, are there some portions you would argue with?

Only a “fool” would argue with these two responses to 9/11, says you, but I say only a delusional fool would argue so superficially in support of measures that has been used to authorize the routine filming of every car on every highway, 24/7, monitoring of EZ Pass signals on highways, routine capture and storage of every cell call, email and text made in America, routine sharing of citizen tax records (and, soon, medical records) with law enforcement and access to Internet records based only upon investigatory desire. This is way past investigating terrorists, Jihadist or “right wing”.

MTF on December 29, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Word. The Patriot Act created the infrastructure for a police surveillance state that guys like Lenin and Goebbles would have drooled over. You are a sheep, Stoic Patriot.

Harbingeing on December 29, 2012 at 12:46 PM

The Bushes destroyed the gop.

PappyD61 on December 29, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Get a grip, dude.

Sit back and sip a nice cup of reality.

Solaratov on December 29, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Republicans are huge fans of Police States. Always have been. The political spectrum is a circle. Far Left, Far Right – they both wanna control you.

Slade73 on December 29, 2012 at 9:10 AM

.
Republicans (generally) are “Democrat-light”, and as such hardly be called “Far Right”.

We got a third less liberalism than your regular Democrats, plus we taste GREAT and are less filling.

.
If you want to call any politician “Far Right”, I’d say Ron Paul comes closest.

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:00 PM

…NO MORE PENISES either !

KOOLAID2 on December 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM

.
And that takes care of Johnny Boner.

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM

.
Good night, everybody !

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Democrats are responsible for the good things, all of them. Bush and House republicans are responsible for all the bad things, including the common cold. All leftist sophisticates realize this, as do all the insane. Is there a difference?

arand on December 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM

Again Fascism is ALWAYS descending on us…it just never seems to actually, you know, land.

JFKY on December 29, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Oh, it has landed. Just check out the white house. It lives there quite well.
And, with the help of a complicit media and 50.1% of the voters who all think they’re going to get something for nothing, it thrives and fattens.

Solaratov on December 29, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 11:26 AM
.

KOOLAID2 on December 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM

.
Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM

.
Why did my comment in reply to the above, get eaten/moderated?

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Why did my comment in reply to the above, get eaten/moderated?

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM

It’ll pop up – the P word gets it caught in the moderation filter.

(same thing happened to me)

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 1:23 PM

The continued demonizing of George Bush by our side is one of the reasons we don’t have a President Romney.

SurferDoc on December 29, 2012 at 12:10 PM

^^^THIS!^^^

The trucons have fallen hook, line and sinker for the democRAT propaganda.

Solaratov on December 29, 2012 at 1:26 PM

The continued demonizing of George Bush by our side is one of the reasons we don’t have a President Romney.

SurferDoc on December 29, 2012 at 12:10 PM

.
Can’t agree with you there, ‘Doc.

It’s because we haven’t nominated a sufficiently PROVEN Conservative to run for POTUS on the Republican ticket, in years.

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:27 PM

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM

.
It’ll pop up – the P word gets it caught in the moderation filter.

(same thing happened to me)

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 1:23 PM

.
Thanx.

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:30 PM

The continued demonizing of George Bush by our side is one of the reasons we don’t have a President Romney.

SurferDoc on December 29, 2012 at 12:10 PM

^^^THIS!^^^

The trucons have fallen hook, line and sinker for the democRAT propaganda.

Solaratov on December 29, 2012 at 1:26 PM

More foolishness…the last two elections we have nominated exactly what every one of YOUR kind have wanted a “moderate” and we have gotten our asses handed to us.

Moderates stand for nothing except walking over the cliff more slowly…nothing radical comes from them because they have no values and therfor everything is up for grabs. Neither Hot Nor Cold the electorate spits out the candidate.

PierreLegrand on December 29, 2012 at 2:00 PM

The trucons have fallen hook, line and sinker for the democRAT propaganda.

Solaratov on December 29, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Said it while he was in office…and I still say it today….W not only tried to force Amnesty down our throats…he spent like a drunken wh*re.

His Dad made VP as a compromise with establishment moderates…and uncortunately, his squish-ass rode Reagan’s coat-tails into the big office.

Jeb is an amnesty-loving Conservative basher.

Please…no more Bush’s.

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM

Don’t get me started with G. W. Bush. His being among true conservatives is about as normal as an ostrich in a trailer park. And a little note to Jeb, you’re going the wrong direction in today’s politics Amigo, you may want to consult Charley Christ on how he did it because after your Brother, you Sir won’t have a chance.

Tangerinesong on December 29, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Unfortunately, though he’s been out of office for more than four years

Hmmm.

Was not aware we were in Feb 2013. Obama is not in his second term yet.

Steveangell on December 29, 2012 at 3:47 PM

listens2glenn on December 29, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Don’t forget to tip your waitress!

Tim_CA on December 29, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Unfortunately, though he’s been out of office for more than four years

Hmmm.

Was not aware we were in Feb 2013. Obama is not in his second term yet.

Steveangell on December 29, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Pitch-PERFECT! You ARE in the Steam-Room Slobbering Over Obama, Harry Reid and Chris Matthews.

You are swallowing the EXACT Kool-Aid and “Blame-BOOOOOSHedness” that THEY have TOLD YOU to Drink!!

Hang ON to that! Hang On to THE PAST!! and Hang On to the Idea that BOOOOOOOOSH is stil in office and/or determining the fate of mankind.

That’s juuuuust what Obama, Harry and Chris WANT you to do!

Congratulations!

You’re about as helpful as Leprosy.

williamg on December 29, 2012 at 4:03 PM

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