Piers Morgan: Hey, let’s amend the Bible

posted at 9:01 am on December 27, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

And not just the Bible, but Piers Morgan wants to amend the Constitution, too. It’s a darn good thing that the CNN host needed work badly enough to emigrate to a place that he finds so disagreeable.  What did we ever do without him?

I have no issue with the concept of amending the Constitution — and neither did the founders, who accepted that it might prove flawed for later use.  That’s why they included the mechanisms for amending the foundational document of American law within it, mechanisms that have been used 17 times since the original passage of the Constitution.  We have even had one amendment repeal another (the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th).  If Morgan wants to press for an amendment repealing the Second Amendment in whole or in part, he just needs to convince two-thirds of both the House and Senate to pass it, and then get three-quarters of the states to ratify it. Have fun storming the castle!

His insistence on amending the Bible amuses more than it shocks, because it’s impossible to take Morgan seriously.  He’s needling Rick Warren, nothing more, and attempting to provoke him into a heated exchange. Warren is simply smarter than Morgan, and takes a pass.

If Morgan was serious, then it’s still less offensive than humorous, but the joke is on Morgan.  If you believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God, then you know that it’s absurd to suggest that it be “amended” based on the latest human fashion, which is what Warren explains.  God is, after all, unchangeable — or He wouldn’t be God at all. It would be equally absurd to think that anyone would base their faith on the amended product, a Gospel According To Piers, if you will, unless people decided that Piers is either God Himself or a new prophet, in which case he’d probably have a better gig.

And if you don’t think that the Bible is the unerring word of God … why would you care what’s in it at all?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5 6 7 11

Timin, come on, dude. Didn’t I mention in my earlier post that you never had to revere. Just don’t denigrate, thats all. Thats leftists thinking. Regarding Islam, Quran etc. Whats do the leftists do? They remain quiet, whatever the nutty Islamists do. And dude, no one, and I mean NO ONE on HotGas knows Islamists and Islam like I do. I was born and raised among them.

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 2:37 PM

I’m not sitting here making fun of people for their beliefs, and you say I’m denigrating the bible by saying I don’t believe in it or that there is no outside confirmation of the contents therein.

I live in an area with a lot of people of different religious beliefs. My argument since the beginning is that anyone can choose to believe anything they want, but when it starts affecting MY life and my rights, it starts to annoy me.

I think many of the moral precepts in the old testament and the koran are absolutely repulsive. The new testament is more touchy feely and I guess I don’t have an issue with the anecdotes and whatnot, and it’s not like i have all the answers, so if that’s what you believe, fine. But accept you have no way of knowing that your religion is right, and just playing the odds here, chances are your religion is not right.

Ultimately, as long as you don’t use the government to enforce your beliefs on me, I don’t really care who you pray to.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:44 PM

I wonder why the same standard of scrutiny is not applied?

anuts on December 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM

Because those references are inconvenient to their faith. Make no mistake, atheism is a religion.

dogsoldier on December 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

mazer9, you state that both religion and liberalism is dumb. You’re wrong on both counts. If liberalism is dumb, why have most of your fellow citizens elected a liberal President? And if religion is dumb, why do 78% or above believe in God? The alternate way of stating it is that maybe you are dumb. No disrespect, but thats how you put across your arguement.

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

Ultimately, as long as you don’t use the government to enforce your beliefs on me, I don’t really care who you pray to.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Then, why have you been arguing against Christianity and the existance of God for 5 pages?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:27 PM

We’ll have to disagree on the premises.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:30 PM

ROTFLMAO… No worries, I’m totally ok with that. I know that I do not understand exactly how God created the Universe.

a) I wasn’t there when he did it and b) I’m just not that damned smart. ;)

I do believe that he did create the Universe though. What I do not believe in is magic or mumbo-jumbo voodoo. I believe that when God created the Universe he did so by creating all of the laws that we are discovering, that we call the laws of Physics. I do not believe that he has prohibited us from examining his handy work or from understanding the underlying principals upon which his work was done.

There is a joke I enjoy, a scientist says to god, I have created life. God says ok, how did you do it. The scientist says I put a bunch of inert chemicals together and added energy and built the basic building block of life, and then combined them together until something living emerged.

God replied, ok, now do it again, but create your own inert chemicals first. (I always get a chuckle out of that one ;) )

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Uhh… We have writings that Julius Ceasar himself wrote. Same is true for Plato and Artistotle.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:34 PM

Actually that’s not true of Aristotle. We have zero writings that were ever penned from Aristotle himself. All that is attributed to him were notes from his students.

anuts on December 27, 2012 at 2:47 PM

What I’m really trying to figure out around here is why and how YOU think yourself so superior.
Care to explain that?
Liam on December 27, 2012 at 2:29 PM

I don’t think I’m superior and never asserted any such thing. My original post responded to a thought from the article, disagreeing with it

It would be equally absurd to think that anyone would base their faith on the amended product

There are any number of examples with the multiple “translations” and “versions” and modernizing evolutions in language and in general interpretations since the inception of the Christian church and faith show, to me, a very clear picture of how people WILL indeed base their faith off of amended products.

I used the Ten Commandments as an example because all one has to do is ACTUALLY read the book and the verses to see it. The ten commandments we accept as such are not THE ten commandments, were never refered to as such in the bible, and they are not the ten laws that show up on the stone tablets and are ACTUALLY referred to as the ten commandments. But people believe and base their faith on the amended, more palatable, and applicable version that was just Moses reiterating what god had told him on mount Sinai, rather than the REAL Ten Commandments. Even though IT’S RIGHT THERE, clear as day in the bible.

There are other examples. But that’s why I used that one.

And it’s true. People WILL base their faiths off of amended more palatable interpretations.

Whether that means its a good idea for ole’ Piers to put one out or if people would follow THAT is another question entirely, to which I have not spoken on at all. They most assuredly wouldn’t.

But that doesn’t mean that people WON’T at all. It’s clear they will, and do, even though Piers couldn’t pull it off.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 2:48 PM

I’m not sitting here making fun of people for their beliefs…

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Actually, you are. You can’t leave people alone, can you?

You attack, then try running away from your own words. You’re not kidding anyone.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 2:48 PM

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:21 PM

http://www.cosmologystatement.org/

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:38 PM

ROTFLMAO… Check the date… ;)

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Because those references are inconvenient to their faith. Make no mistake, atheism is a religion.

If atheism is “a religion”, then so is my non-belief in Unicorns.

However, I don’t go to non-Unicorn church, pray to non-Unicorn God, or expect to get into non-Unicorn heaven when I die. Everything else is pretty much the same. Goes for all the other infinite non-beliefs I hold.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM

#1 is an assumption.

#2 is false. They were first referred to as Christians in the middle of the first century.

#3 Was Josephus’ list exhaustive? Or maybe he just wasn’t familiar with a term that wasn’t in widespread use. When the term was applied to the followers of Christ at Antioch, it was a pejorative.

#4 is based on liberal theology. There is no reason not to accept that the New Testament was written in it’s entirety in the first century, even before AD 70.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

What if you present yourself, as you have, on an anonymouse Conservative website (that remains the ideology of the majority of posters here)as intolerant of their Faith?

How are they supposed to react?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM

I think merely interacting with christians shows I can tolerate their faith. Also, I’ve been posting on hotair since before they were purchased by christians and changed from a conservative site to a socon site.

It sucks that evangelicals have to muscle out the conservatives and co-opt our title.

I believe in liberty & freedom. Some would call me a fiscal conservative or a libertarian.

SoCons, like their neo-con brethren, don’t have a philosophical problem with big government or with telling others what to do or how to live their lives, they just don’t like that big government is run by progressives, they’d much rather see themselves in charge… because THEY can run it better.

So yeah, the people that brought us Santorum, McCain and GWB can claim the title of “conservative” all the want, but THAT is not conservatisim.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Please. I’d love to see it.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Exodus 34:1

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 2:51 PM

I don’t think I’m superior and never asserted any such thing.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Actually, you do. The way you present yourself tells all. You dismiss so many around here, being a constant abuser in your own way.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 2:52 PM

Acts 11:26 The followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch.

Acts 26:28 King Agrippa accused Paul of trying to make him a Christian.

First Peter 4:16 “If any man suffer as a Christian….”

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 2:52 PM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

You are aware that Michelle Malkin, the Founder of Hot Air, is a Christian and a Reagan Conservative?

So, you want to try that again?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 2:52 PM

I think merely interacting with christians shows I can tolerate their faith. Also, I’ve been posting on hotair since before they were purchased by christians and changed from a conservative site to a socon site.

It sucks that evangelicals have to muscle out the conservatives and co-opt our title.

I believe in liberty & freedom. Some would call me a fiscal conservative or a libertarian.

SoCons, like their neo-con brethren, don’t have a philosophical problem with big government or with telling others what to do or how to live their lives, they just don’t like that big government is run by progressives, they’d much rather see themselves in charge… because THEY can run it better.

So yeah, the people that brought us Santorum, McCain and GWB can claim the title of “conservative” all the want, but THAT is not conservatisim.

The only difference between SoCons and Liberals is that one worships an invisible god while the other worships the government.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Actually that’s not true of Aristotle. We have zero writings that were ever penned from Aristotle himself. All that is attributed to him were notes from his students.

anuts on December 27, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Sort of true, but not totally. http://answers.encyclopedia.com/question/did-aristotle-write-80295.html .

But students transcribing his words as he lectured passes the test for “first hand source” for me. But your point stands, I hadn’t realized how little of his work survived.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM

The only difference between SoCons and Liberals is that one worships an invisible god while the other worships the government.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

This is how we know you are stupid.

tom daschle concerned on December 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM

ROTFLMAO… Check the date… ;)

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Yeah, it was written eight years ago. Your point?

And your use of ROTFLMAO is a wonderment to me based on my knowledge of you and the nature of this debate.

Neither one of us is a troll.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

You are aware that you are posting on a site which was founded by a SoCon (Reagan Conservative), right?

Whom do you worship, Dr. Paul?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM

Timin, your judgement bout the New Testament is hilarious. Next time, don’t denigrate the peoples faith. Keep it simple. If you don’t believe in God, say it. But thats it. Going over that boundary is spewing hatred.

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:34 PM

The documents are dated over a 1000 years from when these men existed. If that which witnesses have written within 100 years of the event are not accurate to you, why would documents over a 1000 years old be considered accurate to you? You have no proof besides these documents that they are accurate, by your opinion they could be made up.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM

This is how we know you are stupid.

Coming from people who believe in talking serpents, virgin births, and invisible gods I take that as a compliment.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:56 PM

The only difference between SoCons and Liberals is that one worships an invisible god while the other worships the government.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Many atheists on this site oppose abortion, redefining marriage, or both.

You add nothing to this debate.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:56 PM

But students transcribing his words as he lectured passes the test for “first hand source” for me. But your point stands, I hadn’t realized how little of his work survived.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM

Not does not. It is what is called a second hand account, the exact same thing as the gospels.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:57 PM

This bozo has got a lot of gall going on about politeness.

claudius on December 27, 2012 at 2:57 PM

I don’t think I’m superior and never asserted any such thing.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 2:48 PM

I have been reading your posts all day. You’re a horrid little person, in my estimation.

Instead of leaving alone people of Faith, you have done nothing but argue with them. All you have sought, all day, is to somehow make yourself feel ‘right’.

The history is there with your own postings for anyone to see.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 2:57 PM

You are aware that you are posting on a site which was founded by a SoCon (Reagan Conservative), right?

Whom do you worship, Dr. Paul?

I don’t care. I post on Huff Post too. I agree with many things on the site. However, I disagree with every religious post. Regardless the religion.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:58 PM

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:56 PM

You people are so cute when you think you are making a point. Demonstrating your ignorance doesn’t really move the ball down the field.

tom daschle concerned on December 27, 2012 at 2:59 PM

mazer9 is a closet leftist. Most ‘militant atheists’ are.

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 2:59 PM

I don’t care. I post on Huff Post too.
mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:58 PM

’nuff said.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 2:59 PM

You are aware that Michelle Malkin, the Founder of Hot Air, is a Christian and a Reagan Conservative?

So, you want to try that again?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 2:52 PM

As someone else pointed out, 3/4 of Americans are christians. this site and the commentors on it were not largely social conservatives until the townhall acquisition.

Reagan was not a social con, either. He ran as a fiscal conservative and came as close to governing that way as any republican president in my liftime.

Bush ran has a “compassionate conservative” (neo con) in 00, governed as a cross between a neo-con and a social con. We haven’t had a fiscally conservative candidate since Reagan. Watch reagan’s goldwater speech, and count how many times he brings up abortions and gay marriage and “traditional families”

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM

mazer9 is a closet leftist. Most ‘militant atheists’ are.

Why do you have to redefine me to make yourself feel better about your weird religious beliefs?

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM

The documents are dated over a 1000 years from when these men existed. If that which witnesses have written within 100 years of the event are not accurate to you, why would documents over a 1000 years old be considered accurate to you? You have no proof besides these documents that they are accurate, by your opinion they could be made up.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM

Excellent point.

Comments like he makes show little to no understanding of hermeneutics in general and absolutely no understanding of New Testament hermeneutics.

Or willful ignorance.

Or an outright attempt at deception.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:01 PM

The letters that comprise the New Testament were written by witnesses of Christ and his ministry. The copies are all within 60 to 100 years old. That is far greater evidence of fact than documents dated 1000 years after even when considered written by the man himself.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 3:02 PM

As someone else pointed out, 3/4 of Americans are christians. this site and the commentors on it were not largely social conservatives until the townhall acquisition.

Reagan was not a social con, either.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM

Bull. Now, you’re re-writing history to prove your world view.

I’ve been here since 2008. Christians still make up a large portion of this websites readership.

How many quotes by Ronaldus Magnus about the sovereignty of God,regarding this nation, do you wish me to post?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Why do you have to redefine me to make yourself feel better about your weird religious beliefs?

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM

You defined yourself, actually. And, here, you aren’t welcome or wanted.

Why do you feel that you should somehow impose yourself?

Who do YOU think you are?

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:04 PM

I don’t care. I post on Huff Post too.
mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:58 PM

’nuff said.

And if you read any of them, they don’t scream “leftist”.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

ROTFLMAO… Check the date… ;)

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Yeah, it was written eight years ago. Your point?

And your use of ROTFLMAO is a wonderment to me based on my knowledge of you and the nature of this debate.

Neither one of us is a troll.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM

ROTFLMAO… is neither a negative nor a pejorative. It simply expresses amusement. The citation you provide was written in 2004, George Smoot received his Nobel Prize in 2006, a Nobel Prize in Physics is nothing what so ever like a Nobel Peace Prize.

I do not think you are a troll, I am enjoying this discussion immensely. My salvation is not based in any way shape or form on knowing the mechanisms by which God created the Universe, but exclusively on the knowledge and acceptance of his son’s sacrifice for my sins.

The how of creation is for me, a fascinating and immensely enjoyable subject, but at the end of the day, it changes nothing.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

listens2glenn on December 27, 2012 at 1:06 PM

.
lol! you too! recognition granted! :)

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 1:24 PM

.
Sorry … had to go shopping with my honey, after that last comment.

Recognition noted, and thankyou: )
.
This thread’s really movin’ (these kind usually do).

listens2glenn on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Timin, your judgement bout the New Testament is hilarious. Next time, don’t denigrate the peoples faith. Keep it simple. If you don’t believe in God, say it. But thats it. Going over that boundary is spewing hatred.

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM

No, you mean don’t denigrate YOUR faith. You’re okay with me denigrating muslims as anti-woman, right? But I’ll self-censor myself so as to not spew hatred by going over the boundry and saying “the bible is x” whatever the x that offended you is.

The documents are dated over a 1000 years from when these men existed. If that which witnesses have written within 100 years of the event are not accurate to you, why would documents over a 1000 years old be considered accurate to you? You have no proof besides these documents that they are accurate, by your opinion they could be made up.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM

What are you talking about?! No, we cannot do forensic hand writing samples to be certain that julius ceaser wrote everything ascribed to him. Is that your point? Because I don’t understand how that strengths your point that “witnesses” one hundred years after the fact accurately transcribed events that had occured one hundred years prior.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM

Got it!

Everything in Josephus is right – except for the part about Christianity. That was faked by the ‘evil monks’.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM

And if you read any of them, they don’t scream “leftist”.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

I didn’t say you were. However, they do scream Paulnut.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:07 PM

mazer9, weird? To 78% of Americans, its normal. Perhaps its you whos weird. Lol

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 3:07 PM

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 3:07 PM

A distinct p;ossibility.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:08 PM

And if you read any of them, they don’t scream “leftist”.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Which says you’re an equal-opportunity abuser.

Nice to have you out of your closet.

Pffft!

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:08 PM

You defined yourself, actually. And, here, you aren’t welcome or wanted.

Why do you feel that you should somehow impose yourself?

Who do YOU think you are?

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:04 PM

And I’m the “militant”?

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:08 PM

mazer9, weird? To 78% of Americans, its normal. Perhaps its you whos weird. Lol

I challenge you to look the word up in a dictionary then get back to me. It fits.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:10 PM

People WILL base their faiths off of amended more palatable interpretations.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Your use of the word “interpretations” is disingenuous. Most, while not all, of the modern Bibles are translations.

And, no, not all of us choose a translation on its being “palatable.”

I chafe at every translation of 1 Corinthians I’ve read. I do not want to love some people as defined there. Heh. I find I cannot love anyone according to that definition.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Which says you’re an equal-opportunity abuser.

Nice to have you out of your closet.

Pffft!

I guess I have a strong disdain for liberals and bible thumpers.

You got me!

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Bull. Now, you’re re-writing history to prove your world view.

I’ve been here since 2008. Christians still make up a large portion of this websites readership.

How many quotes by Ronaldus Magnus about the sovereignty of God,regarding this nation, do you wish me to post?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Okay, I’ll try again. Christians make up a large portion of EVERY WEBPAGES readership. They also make up a large portion of elected officials. Yes, Reagan referenced God regularly. So do a lot of people. That’s not my point!

There are three main groups in the republican coalition:

1) neo-cons (think bill kristol) who are largely ex-liberals, who believe in a wilsonian foreign affair where the US can use its power to spread ideals world wide. This group wants to use big government to perfect people and the world.

2) social cons (think rick santorum). These people believe that god is the center of everything, and that they should use the power of big government to coerce others to live a life following gods plans and gods laws.

3) fiscal cons (think rand paul) believe that government should be minimized, live with very limited spending, and be constrained by the constitution to its enumerated tasks.

Now there is definitely a lot of overlaps in these groups. But the approach to governing is VERY DIFFERENT for all three.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM

And I’m the “militant”?

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:08 PM

I never used that term against you, so get over yourself and don’t try laying your neuroses on my doorstep.

You are what you are, all by yourself. The rest of us define you by your personal and willful presentations of your character and nature.

If there are flaws around here, they’re all on your head.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Because those references are inconvenient to their faith. Make no mistake, atheism is a religion.

If atheism is “a religion”, then so is my non-belief in Unicorns.

However, I don’t go to non-Unicorn church, pray to non-Unicorn God, or expect to get into non-Unicorn heaven when I die. Everything else is pretty much the same. Goes for all the other infinite non-beliefs I hold.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Would you prefer “Cult”?

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:13 PM

If Piers Morgan is so great at straightening things out why didn’t he just stay in the UK?

newpine on December 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM

#1 is an assumption.

its an observation. how would a orthodox jew like josephus claim that someone was the messiah without any criticism?

#2 is false. They were first referred to as Christians in the middle of the first century.

by who? the claim is that until the 2nd century, nor christians nor romans called christians, christians, so, why josephus would use an expression so uncommon in 70 CE when his work was written?

#3 Was Josephus’ list exhaustive? Or maybe he just wasn’t familiar with a term that wasn’t in widespread use. When the term was applied to the followers of Christ at Antioch, it was a pejorative.

here is josephus referencing jewish sects:

“When I was sixteen years old, I decided to get experience with the various sects that are among us. These are three: as we have said many times, the first, that of the Pharisees, the second that of the Saduccees, the third, that of the Essenes. For I thought that in this way I would choose best, if I carefully examined them all. Therefore, submitting myself to strict training, I passed through the three groups.” – Life, 2.

Josephus elsewhere does record a “fourth sect of Jewish philosophy” and reports that it was a “mad distemper” agitating the entire country.

“But of the fourth sect of Jewish philosophy, Judas the Galilean was the author. These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions; but they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only Ruler and Lord.

They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man Lord …

And it was in Gessius Florus’s time that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and to make them revolt from the Romans. And these are the sects of Jewish philosophy.” – Antiquities 18.23.

except for the forged passage, there is no reference to christians.

#4 is based on liberal theology. There is no reason not to accept that the New Testament was written in it’s entirety in the first century, even before AD 70.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

what?what i am saying is that christian apologist before the 4th century, did not wrote about the passage in josephus although they quote his work extensively.

even the catholic encyclopedia says:

“The passage [Testimonium Flavianum] seems to suffer from repeated interpolations.”

– Catholic Encyclopedia.

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Btw, you got the bible verse that shows the ten commandments as the modernly accepted version?

Nope, you don’t. The tablets, the ONLY thing referred to as the ten commandments, said something else.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM

This just goes to prove you’re not even reading the answers you’re receiving.

Prove me wrong.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM

I already did.

To those talking about sources (and I apologize if I didn’t read all your comments and misunderstood you, Timin): if you throw out the historical Jesus, then you have to throw out just about all of history before the Enlightenment, because almost none of it is any better sourced.

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM

Being a “fiscon” does not require one not to be a “socon.”

Both are moral issues. But one must have morals to begin with.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:15 PM

The only difference between SoCons and Liberals is that one worships an invisible god while the other worships the government.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Everything in Josephus is right – except for the part about Christianity. That was faked by the ‘evil monks’.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM

There are a handful of brief references that were probably related to Jesus in Josephus’ history of the Jews. It was also written half a century after jesus existed, so all it proves is that christianity existed in 95 AD or whatever, and I don’t think anyone is arguing against that.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Would you prefer “Cult”?

Yeah, “Cult of the Non-belief in Unicorns and an Infinite number of other non-sensical things”.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Go back to your comment. You commented on my weird beliefs. And I stated above that 78% of Americans share my belief. Now, you want the definition? Thats fine. Weird – strange, peculiar. Yep, you’re both. Lol.

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM

I chafe at every translation of 1 Corinthians I’ve read. I do not want to love some people as defined there. Heh. I find I cannot love anyone according to that definition.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Which just goes to show you’re probably reading it aright. ;)

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM

I guess I have a strong disdain for liberals and bible thumpers.

You got me!

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM

A person of no definitive values, of no genuine standing.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Hold on there, Maverick.Christians do not put their faith in a box and just bring it out on Sundays. Reagan referenced God in politicaal speeches, you just cannot toss that aside. He also referenced Conservatism as a three-legged stool…or, did you not know that? The “legs” were Fiscal Responsibility, National Defense, and Social Issues.

You’re re-writing history does not make what you say true.

These “categories” of Conservatism are one, or two legged stools. Without all three elements, you’re actually either a Liertarian, a Moderate, or a Liberal.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Weird of, relating to, or caused by witchcraft or the supernatural : magical

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:18 PM

My salvation is not based in any way shape or form on knowing the mechanisms by which God created the Universe, but exclusively on the knowledge and acceptance of his son’s sacrifice for my sins.

Bottom line.

The how of creation is for me, a fascinating and immensely enjoyable subject, but at the end of the day, it changes nothing.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Exactly. It is what it is.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:19 PM

I believe in personal responsibility: if I don’t work, I don’t eat. I don’t believe in an invisible god that provides for me or “blesses” me. I also believe that when I die I’m gone. Consequently, I value life and personal liberty.

It ain’t that hard.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM

.
The “spirit dimension” is more real than what you percieve with your five physical senses.

You are a spirit, and as such you will never cease to exist.

listens2glenn on December 27, 2012 at 3:20 PM

A person of no definitive values, of no genuine standing.

If this is what you call “values”

2 Kings 2:23-24
King James Version (KJV)
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:21 PM

The only difference between SoCons and Liberals is that one worships an invisible god while the other worships the government.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Heh. A crass way of putting it, but it’s true. Santorum was an anti-abortion big government type. Remember his position on online gambling and that speech he gave about it? That alone should have firmly cemeted a (D) after his name

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM

Would you prefer “Cult”?

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:13 PM

That would fit, actually. Mocking another is a always an attempt at demonstrating superiority. It may also be considered a militant act, since it is also an attempt to discredit and demean.

If there are flaws around here, they’re all on your head.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Well said.

dogsoldier on December 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM

My salvation is not based in any way shape or form on knowing the mechanisms by which God created the Universe, but exclusively on the knowledge and acceptance of his son’s sacrifice for my sins.

Bottom line.

The how of creation is for me, a fascinating and immensely enjoyable subject, but at the end of the day, it changes nothing.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Exactly. It is what it is.

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:19 PM

ROTFLMAO… I can however tell you how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin, provided you can give me the exact diameter of the pin head and the size of the Angels… ;p

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM

Tacitus in AD 96, in his Annals 15,44 states “the vulgar call them Christians. The author or origin of this denomination, Christus, had, in the reign of Tiberius been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate”.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 3:25 PM

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:19 PM

ROTFLMAO… I can however tell you how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin, provided you can give me the exact diameter of the pin head and the size of the Angels… ;p

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM

Come to think of it, I can even tell you the maximum number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin without even knowing their size… 1.616×10-35xpi r2/A

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:25 PM

And if you don’t think that the Bible is the unerring word of God … why would you care what’s in it at all?

Because it affects the behavior of people who do think it’s inerrant.
(This was put best by the late, great C.H.)

Tzetzes on December 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM

If you don’t believe in the Bible, why are you quoting it, closet leftist, mazer? Reminds me of Islamic preachers who quote the Bible trying to prove contradictions therein. Quite pathetic!

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 3:27 PM

I guess I have a strong disdain for liberals and bible thumpers.

You got me!

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM

No. You want to denigrate the beliefs of other people. You feel that you have some right/duty to do this – yet you act all butthurt when you are called down for it.
You’re no different than the ‘liberals’ you claim to disdain.
If you were any kind of Conservative, you’d take a ‘live and let live’ attitude toward other peoples beliefs and not feel so bound to try to destroy them.
You’re as hypocritical as any liberal.

And, you’re an idiot.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Got it!

Everything in Josephus is right – except for the part about Christianity. That was faked by the ‘evil monks’.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM

here is a list of forged christian stuff:
The Donation of Constantine –

The False Decretals (aka Pseudo-Isidorian Forgeries) – more than a hundred fake letters and decrees attributed to pontiffs from 1st century Clement (88-97) to 7th century Gregory I (590-604).

the ‘Dionysiana’, This ripe collection included fifty canons from the very Apostles themselves.

‘Thundering Legion’

‘Letters’ of Emperor Antoninus Pius to the Greeks

The Clementines

Correspondence between Seneca and Paul

Acts of Paul and Thecla – “Love for Paul”

‘Testimonium Flavianum’ – The infamous…

The Chronicle of Sulpicius Severus –

Report of Pilate to Caesar

Letter of Jesus to the King of Edessa

fews example of christian forgeries…

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Because it affects the behavior of people who do think it’s inerrant.
(This was put best by the late, great C.H.)

Tzetzes on December 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM

The late great Christopher Hitchens was a gay man scared to death that God was going to punish him for all eternity for his homosexual affairs. His argument were based not on logic, but a deep seated need to absolve himself of the fear that his sexual proclivities would not result in eternal damnation. Sorry, but that is the truth.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:30 PM

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:21 PM

You reject the Bible, so don’t try lecturing me on it. Your attempt at that goes back to what I earlier said about you; further shows your self-presumed arrogance.

You don’t understand us at all, and you never will the way you’re going. So, be as arrogant as you like. But being snooty eventually comes to devastating fall, doesn’t it?

Where do you go after you have gone too far?

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Solaratov, bingo. Mazer9 is extremely judgemental, and thats the preserve of leftist ideology. And he doesn’t even realise it. Lol

tommy71 on December 27, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Josephus elsewhere does record a “fourth sect of Jewish philosophy” and reports that it was a “mad distemper” agitating the entire country.

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Just because he doesn’t use the term “Christian” does not mean the term hadn’t been used before.

I stand by all my points as someone who has studied these issues for several decades. (Yes, that in and of itself does not make me right.)

davidk on December 27, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Would you prefer “Cult”?

Yeah, “Cult of the Non-belief in Unicorns and an Infinite number of other non-sensical things”.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:16 PM

So, you’re saying that atheism is a cult.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:05 PM

My point is that the documents that comprise the New Testaments are written by apostles who lived with Jesus for three years and were eyewitnesses to his ministry. The copies of these letters are dated from 60 to 100 years after the death of Jesus. These copies are far more indicative of the truth of what is written than copies of originals dated 1000 to 1400 years after the fact. You have faith in the 1000 year old copies as being valid but throw out the under 100 year old copies.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 3:32 PM

No. You want to denigrate the beliefs of other people. You feel that you have some right/duty to do this – yet you act all butthurt when you are called down for it.
You’re no different than the ‘liberals’ you claim to disdain.
If you were any kind of Conservative, you’d take a ‘live and let live’ attitude toward other peoples beliefs and not feel so bound to try to destroy them.
You’re as hypocritical as any liberal.

And, you’re an idiot.

Stupid beliefs deserve to be ridiculed. You can call my disbelief in invisible supernatural “spirits” stupid, but you can’t give any rational reason as to why.

That’s the difference.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:33 PM

I guess I have a strong disdain for liberals and bible thumpers.

You got me!

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM

.
That tells me you have a “God given gift/talent” in understanding how and why economics works the way it does.
(ALL persons born of a woman have God given talents, whether they believe in God or not)
You do not see that the same ‘mathematical absolutes’ that govern economics also govern sexual behavior and consequences for it’s misuse, as well.

listens2glenn on December 27, 2012 at 3:33 PM

However, I disagree with every religious post. Regardless the religion.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Uh-huh…

I believe in personal responsibility: if I don’t work, I don’t eat. I don’t believe in an invisible god that provides for me or “blesses” me. I also believe that when I die I’m gone. Consequently, I value life and personal liberty.

It ain’t that hard.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM

Well it’s a good thing Paul wasn’t around with his computer to respond with this post:

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:10

anuts on December 27, 2012 at 3:33 PM

Weird of, relating to, or caused by witchcraft or the supernatural : magical

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:18 PM

You’ve begun to babble.

Try to make sense.

Idiot.

Solaratov on December 27, 2012 at 3:34 PM

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:33 PM

So, you’re smarter than 78% of America’s population, and over 2 billion people worldwide?

Wow.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:35 PM

So, you’re saying that atheism is a cult.

I’m saying you would love for it to be so we atheist would look just as much like suckers as you do.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Stupid beliefs deserve to be ridiculed. You can call my disbelief in invisible supernatural “spirits” stupid, but you can’t give any rational reason as to why.

That’s the difference.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:33 PM

What I can indisputable prove is, that you genuinely are stupid enough to think you can disprove a negative. You have to have an IQ above room temperature to grasp that you cannot disprove a negative and you cannot divide by zero. You have failed miserably on both accounts.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 3:35 PM

You’ve begun to babble.

Try to make sense.

Idiot.

That’s the merriam webster dictionary definition of the word.

Idiot.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM

The only difference between SoCons and Liberals is that one worships an invisible god while the other worships the government.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Sleeper Cell from November 2011?

Del Dolemonte on December 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM

These “categories” of Conservatism are one, or two legged stools. Without all three elements, you’re actually either a Liertarian, a Moderate, or a Liberal.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Yeah, he built our current republican coalition with that. Of the three choices you present to me, I’ll take libertarian (small l) or liberal (as in classical liberal, not progressive who thought they needed a new title).

We can have a strong defense without attacking anyone and without having huge military bases all over europe and asia. We can be “socially conservative” in our private lives without the federal government being involved at all, and we can be fiscally prudent if we stop trying to change behaviors with our federal government

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Del Dolemonte on December 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM

A distinct possibility, Del.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I’m saying you would love for it to be so we atheist would look just as much like suckers as you do.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:35 PM

lol!

nathor on December 27, 2012 at 3:37 PM

What I can indisputable prove is, that you genuinely are stupid enough to think you can disprove a negative. You have to have an IQ above room temperature to grasp that you cannot disprove a negative and you cannot divide by zero. You have failed miserably on both accounts.

I haven’t asked you to “disprove” anything.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I mean New Testament. I don’t know why I put the “s”.

Rose on December 27, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM

So, you just stated that you are not a Conservative.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM

So, you’re smarter than 78% of America’s population, and over 2 billion people worldwide?

Wow.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 3:35 PM

So if 78% of America’s population and over 2 billion people worldwide said that the sky was red, would that mean that they were right?

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5 6 7 11