Piers Morgan: Hey, let’s amend the Bible

posted at 9:01 am on December 27, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

And not just the Bible, but Piers Morgan wants to amend the Constitution, too. It’s a darn good thing that the CNN host needed work badly enough to emigrate to a place that he finds so disagreeable.  What did we ever do without him?

I have no issue with the concept of amending the Constitution — and neither did the founders, who accepted that it might prove flawed for later use.  That’s why they included the mechanisms for amending the foundational document of American law within it, mechanisms that have been used 17 times since the original passage of the Constitution.  We have even had one amendment repeal another (the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th).  If Morgan wants to press for an amendment repealing the Second Amendment in whole or in part, he just needs to convince two-thirds of both the House and Senate to pass it, and then get three-quarters of the states to ratify it. Have fun storming the castle!

His insistence on amending the Bible amuses more than it shocks, because it’s impossible to take Morgan seriously.  He’s needling Rick Warren, nothing more, and attempting to provoke him into a heated exchange. Warren is simply smarter than Morgan, and takes a pass.

If Morgan was serious, then it’s still less offensive than humorous, but the joke is on Morgan.  If you believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God, then you know that it’s absurd to suggest that it be “amended” based on the latest human fashion, which is what Warren explains.  God is, after all, unchangeable — or He wouldn’t be God at all. It would be equally absurd to think that anyone would base their faith on the amended product, a Gospel According To Piers, if you will, unless people decided that Piers is either God Himself or a new prophet, in which case he’d probably have a better gig.

And if you don’t think that the Bible is the unerring word of God … why would you care what’s in it at all?


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Piers can take a long walk off a short pier.

TxAnn56 on December 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM

Is it more surprising than the Jeffersonian Bible or the calls to expunge violent texts from the Islamic Koran?

bluegill on December 27, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Not really.

Happy Nomad on December 27, 2012 at 10:21 AM

You don’t have to believe but that doesn’t give you the right to be intolerant of those who do.

Happy Nomad on December 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM

Or don’t as the case may be.

Old Country Boy on December 27, 2012 at 10:22 AM

There are now almost 81,000 signatures on the petition to deport this liberal clown. Well, he did say to ‘bring it on’ when news of the petition first came out and it seems he has been obliged. Good! I hope it galls him that he can’t get a debate on his show to skewer his critics and show his sanctimony; Morgan is reduced to Twitter for any kind of ‘conversation’ on the matter.

I’m sure Morgan also wants to let David Gregory off the hook for his stunt with that ‘high-capacity’ magazine, despite the thing is totally illegal to possess in DC. Period, end of story.

It would be refreshing to see a liberal truly pay for going too far.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Huh?

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Genuine, an incoherent mess who loves to hear the sound of its own voice almost as much as 0dumba himself, was described well here:

Eh, every liberal thinks they’re smarter than everyone else in the room, plus everyone who ever lived. That’s what a 106 IQ does to you.

JeremiahJohnson on December 27, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Anti-Control on December 27, 2012 at 10:23 AM

And if you don’t think that the Bible is the unerring word of God … why would you care what’s in it at all?

Would’ve liked AP’s (aka GodPundit) take on this. (ha). EM, some of us are “cafeteria spiritual seekers”. A little here, a little there. Believing there’s an inerrant Truth, just not knowing what it is. At the end of his talks, the Dalai Lama likes to say, “please consider what I’ve said. And if you find it wanting, then, just forget all about it”. And then he laughs.

Paul-Cincy on December 27, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Because many of those who do believe the Bible is the unerring word of God want to make unbelievers like me adhere to its bronze age morality.

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 9:41 AM

.
Ah yes, because it is so terrible to be told to not kill, steal, or have indiscriminate sex, eh?!

Sterling Holobyte on December 27, 2012 at 10:10 AM

.
Especially the “indiscriminate sex”, with no consequences.

Ya’ hear me?NO (expletive) CONSEQUENCES !
.
Hey chump !

You need to find yourself a high location, go there, and hold your clenched fist towards the heavens while yelling “THERE IS NO GOD !”

listens2glenn on December 27, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Hey, let’s quit giving this Morgan bozo so much publicity and attention. His show was going down the tubes before his hissy fit about guns (the ratings were somewhere between those for paid programs involving products no sane person would order and Wheel of Fortune reruns). Now, with all the uproar, Morgan’s viewership has probably quintupled, and he’ll be infesting our airwaves for months longer than he should have.

Scriptor on December 27, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Thank you for proving the point that there is a certain contempt in modern society for anybody who dares declare the Bible the unerring holy word of God. You don’t have to believe but that doesn’t give you the right to be intolerant of those who do.

Happy Nomad on December 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM

I’m fine with people being religious in their own lives and believing in whatever god they want. What annoys me is when people make serious political decisions based on their religious beliefs and try to impose said beliefs on others.

Just like liberals believe that guns should be banned, and that conservatives are intolerant to their view by disagreeing… If a liberal doesn’t want to own a gun, that’s fine by me, but when he starts talking about MY guns, is when I get contemptuous.

As for believing in unerring words of god… whatever gets you through the day, I guess. I think it’s all a bit silly, but I’m sure people think things I think / believe / do can be silly… Let’s just leave it out of politics.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Ah yes, because it is so terrible to be told to not kill, steal, or have indiscriminate sex, eh?!

Oh? Is that why the Bible provides instructions on how to sell one’s daughter as a sex slave?

Nothing bad could happen because of doing things like these and others, right?! Gee, what a backward type of thinking this “morality” is, and good thing you are so enlightened.

Is it moral to slaughter non-combatant men, women, children and babies? 1Sam15:

“Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Because those babies deserved to be hacked to death by sword, right?

Notice that God doesn’t say you WILL follow his commandments, like mindless automatons. You have a choice. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Good luck with that other stuff.

Sterling Holobyte on December 27, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Apologetics is the art of explaining why the Bible doesn’t say what it says, and why it says what it doesn’t say.

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Hey, I have a better idea. Let’s find yet another white JournoFraud and unlike Jayson Blair, let’s promote him!

MNHawk on December 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

After all, JournoFrauds like Piers Morgan have a large potential audience of suckers to draw on.

MNHawk on December 27, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Meh. No need to deport him. He’s an attention hog. Deny him that and he’ll go away on his own.

parteagirl on December 27, 2012 at 10:28 AM

But no, we don’t talk about THOSE parts of the bible, only the cherry picked stuff that allows us to judge others not ourselves.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Sure we do. But we understand it. 1 Corinthians 1:18

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Notice that God doesn’t say you WILL follow his commandments, like mindless automatons. You have a choice. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Good luck with that other stuff.

Sterling Holobyte on December 27, 2012 at 10:10 AM
Apologetics is the art of explaining why the Bible doesn’t say what it says, and why it says what it doesn’t say.

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Another thing that annoys me. I serve no man, no church, and no “god,” and it’s kind of insulting to say that I have to or I will eternally damned or what not.

It also annoys me when all great accomplishments (the US constitution) are credited to god… lets give credit where credit is due… to some historically awesome people with great ideas who looked forward to future generations. Not some god or bible or anything. Men did it. Flawed men, just like us.

Men also wrote your bible.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Getting into a debate over the semantics over this is really pointless, isn’t it?

Happy Nomad on December 27, 2012 at 10:16 AM

You didn’t think so when you denied that the Bible has been amended. I’ve given you a clear example of where it has been and now you want to hand-wave.

While were at it, the story of the adulterous woman does not appear in the earliest manuscripts either. This is pretty basic stuff, Happy.

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Seven Seas on December 27, 2012 at 9:19 AM
chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 9:49 AM

There are a number of individual with which I consider myself fortunate to call my friends, individuals who just happen to be atheists. Funny thing about these individuals, they just happen to hold a highly respectable degree of integrity and self-honesty.

Unlike either of you, these atheist’s that I know, have a couple of very interesting personal characteristics. For example, the size of the Universe has not escaped them, nor just how mind numbingly small the planet earth is.

Did I mention that they possessed a nearly amazing degree of self-honesty? as my best friend, who yes, just happens to be an atheist put it. “The Universe is a big eff’ing place, and all I know about it is this tiny little planet. I don’t know if God exists or not, (here is where that amazing ability to be honest with themselves comes in) all I do know, is that I have never met him if he does exist.”

None of my atheist friends ever bother arguing or attempting to explain away God or religion. Just like they don’t waste the time or energy attempting to argue or explain away the existence of fairies, unicorns or the Easter bunny. They are not trying to convince themselves that God does not exist, moreover they possess the self honesty to admit that they have never had anything approaching a “spiritual” awakening or personal experience with the divine. That is actually what rather defines them as atheists.

Because they do not believe in God, they have no need to prove that he does not exist, for them, he simple does not exist, nothing to get their panties in a wad about. They are not angry that he does not exist, they are not angry that anyone else believe that he does. They are not angry about God’s rules or laws.

As a consequence of that rather profound lack of anger, they do not find it necessary to attack or belittle those who do believe through either outright ridicule or subtle implication or innuendo. They have no need or desire to suggest that those who believe are of substandard intelligence, incapable of rational or logical thought or discourse or of malicious or malevolent intent.

Funny how that works, when you genuinely do not believe that God exists, neither he, nor those who do believe in him are your enemy or any kind of threat to you or your belief system.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Hey, let’s quit giving this Morgan bozo so much publicity and attention. His show was going down the tubes before his hissy fit about guns (the ratings were somewhere between those for paid programs involving products no sane person would order and Wheel of Fortune reruns). Now, with all the uproar, Morgan’s viewership has probably quintupled, and he’ll be infesting our airwaves for months longer than he should have.

Scriptor on December 27, 2012 at 10:23 AM

I caught his show once, it was awful.

Paul-Cincy on December 27, 2012 at 10:31 AM

So…please cite your source.
kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Ummm, hello? The bible?

All right, a lesson. Open your bible, turn to exodus 20:2-17. You’ll find the list of rules you have been told are the ten commandments. But you’ll also find that this is just Moses telling the people of the things that god told him, they are not referred to as the “ten commandments” and none of them are written down, much less brought down carved on tablets.

Now, Turn to exodus 31:18, this is where Moses goes back up te mountain and is given the stone tablets, but he comes back down and the people are worshipping the golden calf and he smashes them(exodus 32:19).

At this point nothing has still yet been referred to as the “ten commandments” only words that god spake.

Now, Turn to exodus 34:28. Moses goes back for new tablets an for the first time they are referred to as the ten commandments, and the rules and law laid down in them, carved in stone from god, are significantly different than the more palatable “ten commandments” that you’ve been taught, that were really just Moses relaying his conversations to the people.

But the faith, interpretation, and indeed the TRUE ten commandments have been forgotten and ignored in favor of the ones that sounded better, we’re never referred to as the ten commandments, and are not the laws god gave to Moses carved in stone.

So… Yes, amended. That good enough sourcing for you? ;)

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM

Sure we do. But we understand it. 1 Corinthians 1:18

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Uh, okay, I’ll bite. According to a quick google search, this is the passage you wanted me to read?

8 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

That is poorly worded mumbo jumbo, much like the rest of the bible. Not sure what I should getting from that, maybe something’s being lost in translation? (that’s the argument muslims make — unless you read the quran in ancient arabic, you can’t possibly understand it)

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:33 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM

What version of the Bible were you using, Skippy? I’ve read the Bible all the way through 6 tgimes, and have never seen the translation you used. Please share your translation with us.

We’ll wait.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Well, it’s not like it would be the first time. How many church councils have edited the bible we know today? How many books and lines have been added and removed already?

ernesto on December 27, 2012 at 10:35 AM

There are now almost 81,000 signatures on the petition to deport this liberal clown.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 10:22 AM

The Brits also have a petition going. They want him to stay here!

:P

Can you blame them?

itsnotaboutme on December 27, 2012 at 10:35 AM

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:24 AM

There are TWO parts of the bible. The Old testament (which you seem very fond of ) and the New Testament. Jesus died on the cross so that we were no longer bound by the law. The parts of the bible that you quote are no longer relevant. The Ten Commandments are superseded by the blood of Christ. The Ten Commandments made us aware of the law and bound us to it. Jesus death freed us from their consequences.

bandutski on December 27, 2012 at 10:36 AM

Funny how that works, when you genuinely do not believe that God exists, neither he, nor those who do believe in him are your enemy or any kind of threat to you or your belief system.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM

You can’t have it both ways. Either accept chosing to follow facts and logic and not faith and believes is just as acceptable, and that atheists are at least just as likely to be right as true believers, and keep this as a philosophical argument, or be prepared to atheists to use “true believers” own texts against them.

You can’t simultaniously argue “its just a belief, no one knows the answer” and “if you don’t follow my bible, you’re an immoral person and are going to hell” and that “all problems in the US derive from us moving away from god.”

One or the other — the bible is FACT that we need to all accept, or it is a belief for you just like the belief that breaking a mirror will give you 7 years of bad luck. Obviously no one can disprove the later if you’re going to pretend we’re dealing in facts, yeah, you will get an argument from people.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Throughout history the Bible has never been found to be false so I will err on the side of God. Oh yeah, there are specific consequences for those who “amend” the Bible. I always suggest to those who don’t understand the Bible to read it and study it before making outlandish comments about it. That is the same reason Piers sounds like an idiot for mocking the US constitution.

Ellis on December 27, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Funny how that works, when you genuinely do not believe that God exists, neither he, nor those who do believe in him are your enemy or any kind of threat to you or your belief system.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM

If you think believers in God represent no threat to anyone else’s belief system, this discussion is way over your head. You can start with how the Christians treated the pagans once Christianity became the state religion, and work your way forward.

Yah of the Bible has no more relevance to me than Ra or Odin. They are all equally non-existant.

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

What version of the Bible were you using, Skippy? I’ve read the Bible all the way through 6 tgimes, and have never seen the translation you used. Please share your translation with us.
We’ll wait.
kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM

It’s called the king James, sir. Look it up. Or do you base your faith on an even further amended and cleansed new international version or one of the many other new age twist ups for the “modern” Christian?

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

The Brits also have a petition going. They want him to stay here!

:P

Can you blame them?

itsnotaboutme on December 27, 2012 at 10:35 AM

I know he got fired for falsifying a story and was involved in another media scandal or two over there.

That must be a double-whammy for Morgan: Some of us want him kicked out, and others in his home country don’t want him back. That has to be professionally and personally humiliating on a global scale.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

There are TWO parts of the bible. The Old testament (which you seem very fond of ) and the New Testament. Jesus died on the cross so that we were no longer bound by the law. The parts of the bible that you quote are no longer relevant. The Ten Commandments are superseded by the blood of Christ. The Ten Commandments made us aware of the law and bound us to it. Jesus death freed us from their consequences.

bandutski on December 27, 2012 at 10:36 AM

Whaattt? I went to catholic school for years, I never heard that theory of christian divinity.

So is the old testament no longer the word of god? Did he change his mind?

If he can change his mind so easily, how do we know that the new testament is the forever word of god? What if another prophet comes along and writes a newer testament (oh, like the mormons!)? Then can we throw out the new testament?

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

So at the end of the video Piers Morgan says if you become disrespectful in a political or religious discussion then you “never achieve anything”.

Piers Morgan: “You’re an unbelievably stupid man, aren’t you?”

So, Piers, which is it? Be respectful, or not?

Paul-Cincy on December 27, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Throughout history the Bible has never been found to be false so I will err on the side of God. Oh yeah, there are specific consequences for those who “amend” the Bible. I always suggest to those who don’t understand the Bible to read it and study it before making outlandish comments about it. That is the same reason Piers sounds like an idiot for mocking the US constitution.

Ellis on December 27, 2012 at 10:39 AM

The bible has never been found to be false? What?

How can anyone possibly disprove the events depicted in the bible, which occured thousands of years ago and have little or no contemporary evidence or writing to back them up?

I will say this, the laws of nature and physics are suspended plenty of times in the bible, feats that we unfortunately have never seen replicated with multiple first person accounts in modern history.

Miracles used to be common place in biblical times, but no one is walking on water or converting water to win these days… Why not? God got bored of his parlor tricks?

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM

Piers reminds me of Andy Kaufman.

ConservativeLA on December 27, 2012 at 10:46 AM

I went to catholic school for years, I never heard that theory of christian divinity.

A common ailment amongst Catholics. Being one myself, I am familiar with that affliction.

The New Testament is the basis for Christianity, as it tells of Christ, and of those who embraced Christ’s divinity.

And from the simple “follow me” all else became.

coldwarrior on December 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

So, Piers, which is it? Be respectful, or not?

Paul-Cincy on December 27, 2012 at 10:43 AM

To liberals, it depends on the needs of the moment. That’s why they’re always inconsistent, move goalposts, and end up being called hypocrites all the time. No wonder the MSM are losing money all the time and aren’t trusted.

Liam on December 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

You mean this King James Version, you idjit?

Exodus 20
King James Version

1And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

13Thou shalt not kill.

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15Thou shalt not steal.

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 20And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. 21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

22And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. 23Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold. 24An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee. 25And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it. 26Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

The “theory” is the grace of God. Yes, the Old Testament is the word of God and it gives us insight in to the mind of God. The moral code that was set forth in the Old Testament is a moral code that no one can live by. That is why Jesus had to sacrifice himself so that His blood would be the atonement and free us.
What Jesus did was prophesied about in the old Testament so no, there will be no other prophets or additions to the Bible. He didn’t change His mind, He fulfilled His promise as He said He would.

bandutski on December 27, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Ummmm, what source are you using, Genuine?

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM

It’s not a coincidence that radical liberals and radical Islamists agree so much on strategy — despite a few niggling theological differences.

Muslims constantly claim that they “respect” the holy works of all other religions. But at the same time they claim that all other religions’ prophets REALLY preached the Koran a long time ago; and everything you’ve ever read about them is gigantic series of lies and typographical errors.

By the same token, liberals scream until they’re blue in the face that they “respect” the Constitution. But at the same time they claim that what the founders REALLY meant to write was the Communist Manifesto.

logis on December 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM

If you think believers in God represent no threat to anyone else’s belief system, this discussion is way over your head. You can start with how the Christians treated the pagans once Christianity became the state religion, and work your way forward.

Yah of the Bible has no more relevance to me than Ra or Odin. They are all equally non-existant.

chumpThreads on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

One does not simply disregard Odin!

But yeah, there’s many different versions of the Bible. Some are differing translations with huge changes in wording. Different branches on the Christian tree emphasize different parts of the book, forsaking other areas. Other denominations have removed certain texts from the bible as non-canon and so forth. This has pretty much constantly been happening since men first wrote the bible.

Still, Piers wants some anti-gun clause added to the Bible or something. Yeah, cause those Jews were totally packing heat back in the day!

antisense on December 27, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Even if you don’t believe the Bible is of Divine origin, much of it is verifiable history, and that which is history in the mundane sense and not directly verifiable is sole-source. Morgan believes in rewriting History to suit his whims. He has no problem with lying. He has no problem with rewriting the past a la 1984.

And he doesn’t realize what he’s saying, or why it is so evil that it ought to be beyond consideration.

njcommuter on December 27, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM
You mean this King James Version, you idjit?
Exodus 20
King James Version
1And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 20And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. 21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
22And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. 23Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold. 24An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee. 25And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it. 26Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM

EXACTLY, there kingsjester. Do note that like I said those are only “words that god spake” being passed on by Moses, no tablets, not called the ten commandments, and curiously, there’s more than 10 there huh?

Now, move on to the other later passages in exodus I cited and you’ll find I’m entirely correct and that the ACTUAL 10 commandments carved on stone and given to Moses are rather different.

I posted them in a comment earlier, but you’re welcome to study it for yourself. But the “10 commandments” you accept as such are just Moses reiterating what he heard, and are not THE TEN COMMANDMENTS that were actually referred to as such, carved on the tablets, and given to Moses on mount Sinai.

Win.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

What this “proves” is that Piers isn’t a real journalist. But we already knew that. Why do we take anything this leftist-propaganda tool says with any grain of credibility?

Lawrence on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

The athiest says “Some of the books in the Bible about Jesus contradict each other in regards to him, so that means Jesus didn’t really exist”.

So remember, kids, by the logic none of the founding fathers actually existed, because there are many different books on each one that completely contradict each other.

DethMetalCookieMonst on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Anybody who can believe this stuff has serious problems.

2 Kings 2:23-24
New International Version (NIV)
Elisha Is Jeered

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

One or the other — the bible is FACT that we need to all accept, or it is a belief for you just like the belief that breaking a mirror will give you 7 years of bad luck. Obviously no one can disprove the later if you’re going to pretend we’re dealing in facts, yeah, you will get an argument from people.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Actually, for believers, once we take the step of opening our hearts and minds to believing, our faith becomes as knowledge. From there we have a deeper understanding of God and Scripture, hence, 1 Corinthians 1:18. To us, the Word is the Power of God. To unbelievers it is mere foolishness.

When you get it, you GET it. If you don’t, or refuse to, you can’t. But you will … someday. One way or another. The choice is yours.

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Win.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

In your own mind.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I’m fine with people being religious in their own lives and believing in whatever god they want. What annoys me is when people make serious political decisions based on their religious beliefs and try to impose said beliefs on others.

EVERYONE takes their personal beliefs and tries to impose it on others. It is called politics and voting.

Some beliefs may come because they think themselves tolerant or they may come because of the Bible. People can vote anyway they want based on anything. Who the heck makes you the be all end all of why people vote? And there are a lot of things in the Bible. Do we throw out don’t murder or perjure yourself, because they have some biblical basis/

And btw, laws are ALL BASED ON MORALS. The whole point of laws are forcing societies view on to other people.

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 10:58 AM

The athiest says “Some of the books in the Bible about Jesus contradict each other in regards to him, so that means Jesus didn’t really exist”.

So remember, kids, by the logic none of the founding fathers actually existed, because there are many different books on each one that completely contradict each other.

At least we have their signatures. I doubt anyone would believe stories of the founders walking on water and arising from their graves and ascending into heaven.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 10:59 AM

2 Kings 2:23-24
New International Version (NIV)
Elisha Is Jeered

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

This is hilarious. The right to bear arms? /sarc

antisense on December 27, 2012 at 10:59 AM

The ones you cited are not one time referred to as the 10 commandments, and in fact there are 20+ that were whittled down to the convenient 10 used today, and those are NOT what god sent down on the tablets.

See? Amended. ;)

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:59 AM

The “theory” is the grace of God. Yes, the Old Testament is the word of God and it gives us insight in to the mind of God. The moral code that was set forth in the Old Testament is a moral code that no one can live by. That is why Jesus had to sacrifice himself so that His blood would be the atonement and free us.
What Jesus did was prophesied about in the old Testament so no, there will be no other prophets or additions to the Bible. He didn’t change His mind, He fulfilled His promise as He said He would.

bandutski on December 27, 2012 at 10:50 AM

So everyone who believed in god and followed (or still follow) his original words in the old testament were wrong by following the moral code that no one can live by? So then god realized he made an impossible moral code, sent his kid down to get killed by the people who followed his own moral code to prove a point to us?

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Win.
Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

In your own mind.
kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 10:57 AM

What’s wrong? You look it up? Not catch that in your 6 times reading the bible? Please, tell me how I’m wrong.

After all, I did provide the support YOU asked for. Or you could just be a man and say, “Wow, I actually didn’t ever catch that before. You’re right.”

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM

It’s called the king James, sir. Look it up. Or do you base your faith on an even further amended and cleansed new international version or one of the many other new age twist ups for the “modern” Christian?

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

ROFL! It was good enough for Paul, it’s good enough for you? But, the 10 you “quote” earlier aren’t from any version of the Bible I have seen – much less the King James. (If you really want to get into a debate on the relative merits of various English translations of the Bible, prepare to get schooled.)

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:33 AM

I think you just proved his point.

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Even if you don’t believe the Bible is of Divine origin, much of it is verifiable history, and that which is history in the mundane sense and not directly verifiable is sole-source. Morgan believes in rewriting History to suit his whims. He has no problem with lying. He has no problem with rewriting the past a la 1984.

And he doesn’t realize what he’s saying, or why it is so evil that it ought to be beyond consideration.

njcommuter on December 27, 2012 at 10:54 AM

NONE of it is verifiable history! Cite one source from the same time period that refers to ANY event in the bible. There were greek & roman historians at the time writing about a lot of stuff, none of which mentioned a jesus from nazareth, a pontius pilate, anyone walking on water, any miracles occuring, nothing.

I don’t know what Morgan believes about history, but using the bible as a historicly accurate text is akin to believing the events in the iliad unfolded as told in that epic. At least we now know (well, think we know) that troy actually existed… Unlike anyone named jesus, who may or may not have existed, and who has exactly one source (the bible) attesting to his life.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

So everyone who believed in god and followed (or still follow) his original words in the old testament were wrong by following the moral code that no one can live by? So then god realized he made an impossible moral code, sent his kid down to get killed by the people who followed his own moral code to prove a point to us?

For a guy that is supposedly “all-powerful” he certainly has a convoluted way of doing things. I certainly wouldn’t sacrifice my “only begotten son” to “save” lowly humans from my own wrath.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Did you go to Catholic schools during the seventies or eighties? With some excellent exceptions, some schools went sort of new agey. Of course you have liberals to thank for that. Even so, to leave out the trinity? Oy. Anyway, I find your perspective interesting.

As for Morgan and his desire to change the bible; too late. There have already been changes in translation over the centuries. What a maroon.

Lightswitch on December 27, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Actually, for believers, once we take the step of opening our hearts and minds to believing, our faith becomes as knowledge. From there we have a deeper understanding of God and Scripture, hence, 1 Corinthians 1:18. To us, the Word is the Power of God. To unbelievers it is mere foolishness.

When you get it, you GET it. If you don’t, or refuse to, you can’t. But you will … someday. One way or another. The choice is yours.

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Faith is NOT knowledge. Faith is faith. You’re more then welcome to think of yourself as enlightened compared to the rest of us heathens, but that is based on believing and not fact.

I might really believe that santa claus is real, but that not does make it a fact.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:06 AM

For a guy that is supposedly “all-powerful” he certainly has a convoluted way of doing things. I certainly wouldn’t sacrifice my “only begotten son” to “save” lowly humans from my own wrath.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Well, when you go out and create a whole universe for yourself, then you can do things your way there.

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

It’s called the king James, sir. Look it up. Or do you base your faith on an even further amended and cleansed new international version or one of the many other new age twist ups for the “modern” Christian?

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM

I always get amused when folks like Genuine take elements out of the Bible for their own purposes and leave the context completely on the floor. Of course the ‘conversation’ you mentioned in an earlier post is correct, however, they were never considered the “pre-revised” ten commandments. It was simply a renewal of a covenant. I don’t expect someone like Genuine to understand the difference between the commandments and a covenant, or the scope of WHY there was this covenant between God and Moses because it does not suit their needs. Many stories in the Bible are meant to teach, some actually occurred, while others are just lessons. You have to read the entire context in order to understand them. Cherry picking one or two verses just shows your lack of understanding. Whats that old saying?…the Devil can quote scriptures too? :)

Have a nice day.

Brychance on December 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Cite one source from the same time period that refers to ANY event in the bible. There were greek & roman historians at the time writing about a lot of stuff, none of which mentioned a jesus from nazareth, a pontius pilate

“Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” (Antiquities XVIII 63f)

Josephus

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM

So remember kids, every time you see and picture in Sunday school of the two tablets with the “ten commandments” you know on them? Yep, amended and not true to the source. Truth is while you may follow those and they’re good lessons, you probably break the actual 10 commandments god sent down carved in stone quit regularly, because they don’t really apply to modern life in as easily consumable way as Moses reporting of other words god spake.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM

It’s still your opinion.

After seeing that the Israelites had gone astray during his absence and his brother Aaron had made the Golden Calf, Moses broke the tablets (Exodus 32:19).

Second set

God subsequently commanded Moses to carve two other tablets like the first (Exodus 34:1). In Exodus 34:27,28 Moses was commanded to rewrite, and did rewrite, the Commandments himself. In Deuteronomy 4:13, 5:18, 9:10, and 10:24, however, God himself appears as the writer. This second set, brought down from Mount Sinai by Moses (Exodus 34:29), was placed in the Ark, also known as the Ark of the Covenant, (Exodus 25:16, 21; 40:20), hence designated as the “Ark of the Testimony” (Exodus 25:22; Numbers 4:5; compare also I Kings 8:9). Various theories have been advanced as to why the text in Deuteronomy differs on some points with the text in Exodus

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Faith is NOT knowledge.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:06 AM

To us, it is.

You can argue until you are blue in the face, but nothing you could ever say could sway a believer’s knowledge of God and His Word.

Which brings me to, WHY do you spend so much time and energy trying to do so? Why do you care if we follow Christ? Why do you want us to turn down His promise of eternal life and follow your way?

What do you have to offer that is any better than that?

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Some beliefs may come because they think themselves tolerant or they may come because of the Bible. People can vote anyway they want based on anything. Who the heck makes you the be all end all of why people vote? And there are a lot of things in the Bible. Do we throw out don’t murder or perjure yourself, because they have some biblical basis/

And btw, laws are ALL BASED ON MORALS. The whole point of laws are forcing societies view on to other people.

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Morals exist beyond your bible. In fact, the morals in your bible (especially the old testament) are horrificly not in line with my morals at all. Your god sounds like a mean, spiteful being. Kind of sounds like a human, to be honest.

And the point of laws is not to force your views on others, it’s to protect the rights of you and everyone else from being infringed upon by others.

The laws against murder exist not because god says murdering another is bad, but because everyone has the inalienable right to live without being murdered by someone else.

In other words, just laws should have nothing to do with the perpetrator and how we want him to live, but have everything to do with the victim and his right to live.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM

ROFL! It was good enough for Paul, it’s good enough for you? But, the 10 you “quote” earlier aren’t from any version of the Bible I have seen – much less the King James. (If you really want to get into a debate on the relative merits of various English translations of the Bible, prepare to get schooled.)
Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:33 AM
I think you just proved his point.
GWB on December 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Actually, yes they are. :)

Pick up a king James, go to the cited passages, and test it out. You’ll see I’m quite right.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Piers Morgan is a publicity prostitute, plain and simple. He has no character to speak of and he’s obviously willing to do anything or say anything, as long as it doesn’t involve having any courage, in order to make money.

He should be deported. Perhaps he would be more welcome criticizing the core documents of his own native land, rather than the those of the nation in which he is an unwelcome guest.

thatsafactjack on December 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Many stories in the Bible are meant to teach, some actually occurred, while others are just lessons. You have to read the entire context in order to understand them. Cherry picking one or two verses just shows your lack of understanding. Whats that old saying?…the Devil can quote scriptures too? :)

Have a nice day.

Ah, so now we’re getting back to the part where we can selectively decide which words of god are to be taken literally and which are just amusing anecdotes.

How we do know the part about homosexuality being a sin was not just an anecdote, while the part where god destroys a city, killing all women and children, because he disagreed with their lifestyles is fact?

Maybe the whole bible is just an amusing anecdote not meant to be taken literally? Maybe it was written by some dude living in the equivilent of his parents basement with too much time on his hands?

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:14 AM

The laws against murder exist not because god says murdering another is bad, but because everyone has the inalienable right to live without being murdered by someone else.

In other words, just laws should have nothing to do with the perpetrator and how we want him to live, but have everything to do with the victim and his right to live.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM

And who or what granted that right to life? Or any other right, for that matter?

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:15 AM

H/T Drudge: Senate to Go for Handguns

antisense on December 27, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:00 AM

God didn’t suddenly realize that He had made a mistake and try to correct it. His plan from the start was to prove to people that by themselves, there is no way that they could get in to heaven by works. The entire Old Testament is a monument to the people of Israel trying and failing to please God through good works.

bandutski on December 27, 2012 at 11:15 AM

So, as I posted earlier, here we have posters spending an inordinate amount of time, feverishly trying to disprove the existance of God, Whom they claim not to believe in, in the first place.

Meanwhile, 92% of Americans believe in God, 78 % proclaim Christianity.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 10:59 AM

I did read the references you “provided” and you’re still wrong. Your version requires a very tendentious reading of Scripture – more so even than some of the militant athiests. It also contradicts Jesus’ words referencing the two “greatest commandments” which only makes any sense when referring to the traditional “two tables” of the Law.

I’m curious what you think of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, btw. Also, your opinion on Luther’s German translation. Your answer should be interesting.

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Actually, yes they are. :)

Pick up a king James, go to the cited passages, and test it out. You’ll see I’m quite right.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Quoting the bible is okay if you’re pro-bible, but if you’re not a christian, you’re quoting the wrong translation (wrong translations?! You mean there are dramatically different versions of god’s words depending on which group of people translated into the vernacular? YUP!), or quoting out of context, or you just dont get IT… because faith is fact, but you can only know the facts if you accept the faith…

Exhausting.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Face it dude, you can spin all you want, but the only time the phrase Ten Commandments is applied to the 10 rules that were ACTUALLY on the tablets, the 10 rules that follow are not the “10 commandments” you have been taught and have accepted as such.

Those are only Moses relaying words that god spake. They are never referred to as the commandments, and are NOT what was inscribed in the stone tablets.

Fact. Or at least, “fact” according to the bible and the word of god. ;)

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:18 AM

I might really believe that santa claus is real, but that not does make it a fact.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Given your thought process is the same as a three-year-old you might indeed believe in Santa Claus.

Seriously, whether you believe in God or not is your own business but that doesn’t give you the right to demean others who do. To declare yourself enlightened because you don’t is pretty damned arrogant, no? And why is it so important that your view is the only one that is accurate?

Happy Nomad on December 27, 2012 at 11:18 AM

You mean there are dramatically different versions of god’s words depending on which group of people translated into the vernacular? YUP!), or quoting out of context, or you just dont get IT… because faith is fact, but you can only know the facts if you accept the faith…

Exhausting.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Now you’re starting to get it …. but what’s REALLY amazing is, that even with all the translations and variations and man’s interpretations, Scripture has remained unchanged.

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Morals exist beyond your bible. In fact, the morals in your bible (especially the old testament) are horrificly not in line with my morals at all. Your god sounds like a mean, spiteful being. Kind of sounds like a human, to be honest.

I am an agnostic BTW.. And you really haven’t read the Bible or theocratic texts for or against the Bible or you would know that there was historians that mentioned Jesus, and there is ALOT of historical and archeological discoveries that back up the Bible. And as far as your morals go, I am quite certain that YOU VOTE based on those morals. How are you any different from those that use the Bible as their basis for their morals? Answer: you aren’t any different. You just think you are somehow superior, so your morals are okay to base your vote and politics on.

And the point of laws is not to force your views on others, it’s to protect the rights of you and everyone else from being infringed upon by others

And how the heck do you do that? SOCIETY forces it views on those that don’t conform to societal pressure.

The laws against murder exist not because god says murdering another is bad, but because everyone has the inalienable right to live without being murdered by someone else.

Yeah but we don’t throw them out just because they have biblical basis. You do realize that laws against abortion and gay marriage etc. have basis other than biblical principles. Just because people argue their biblical point of view does not mean that there is no good reason for those laws.

In other words, just laws should have nothing to do with the perpetrator and how we want him to live, but have everything to do with the victim and his right to live.

So you are saying that laws agains the perp are not forcing societal mores on the perp?

It irritates me to no end when someone says that someone else can’t argue something based on their reality. YOU obviously are arguing from your “morals.” What gives you the right to argue based on your “morals?” If morals are relative, what makes your morals better for society? Other than your sense of superiority over believers that is..

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM

And who or what granted that right to life? Or any other right, for that matter?

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:15 AM

No one grants rights on to others. Simply by being born and existing with free will as equals to all other humans, we have the right to not be subjugated by others.

Some would say that that is natures law, some would say its gods, and jefferson would say it’s “nature’s gods.”

And I don’t recall god ever saying you have a right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. That was Jefferson (who cribbed from Locke)…

Or is your argument that no one has any “rights,” and that government or god has free will to grant and revoke privileges (as “rights”) whenever they want?

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Well, when you go out and create a whole universe for yourself, then you can do things your way there.

I guess nothing is stopping me from writing a book of myths and claiming it’s the “word of god”.

mazer9 on December 27, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Meh. No need to deport him.

parteagirl on December 27, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Yeah, like we did after John Lennon viciously called President Nixon a “pig” on the Dick Cavett Show and actively worked against the U.S. efforts in Vietnam while living here?

In fact, the more anti-American you are, the more welcomed you are in the U.S. of A. in this day and age. I could only imagine (pun intended) the “welcome” some European would have received if they came over here and publicly criticized, I dunno, say President McKinley during the Spanish-American War…would’ve been strung up by their ______s.

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 27, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Now you’re starting to get it …. but what’s REALLY amazing is, that even with all the translations and variations and man’s interpretations, Scripture has remained unchanged.

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM

that would be really amazing if it were true. Unfortunately, there are radically different english translations of scripture, and I’m sure if you translated a chinese bible in to english, you would find millions of other differences. Anything that is translated is opened to a lot of interpretation by the person doing the translating.

And I was being facetious, your logic is giving me a headache. Facts and truth do not vary by person, they are verifiable trues that are uniform, regardless of beliefs and whatnot.

Just like no matter how hard you want to believe global warming exists doesn’t make it exist. And no matter how much you want to believe banning (alcohol, drugs, guns, whatever) will end whatever problem you think exists, that doesn’t make it the case.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:23 AM

NONE of it is verifiable history! Cite one source from the same time period that refers to ANY event in the bible. There were greek & roman historians at the time writing about a lot of stuff, none of which mentioned a jesus from nazareth, a pontius pilate, anyone walking on water, any miracles occuring, nothing.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Obviously, you haven’t heard of some major contemporary historians named Josephus, Eusebius and Philo? There are also a LOT of historical documents that support the history of the Old Testament.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Read my further comment.

GWB on December 27, 2012 at 11:25 AM

You can’t have it both ways. Either accept chosing to follow facts and logic and not faith and believes is just as acceptable, and that atheists are at least just as likely to be right as true believers, and keep this as a philosophical argument, or be prepared to atheists to use “true believers” own texts against them.

You can’t simultaniously argue “its just a belief, no one knows the answer” and “if you don’t follow my bible, you’re an immoral person and are going to hell” and that “all problems in the US derive from us moving away from god.”

One or the other — the bible is FACT that we need to all accept, or it is a belief for you just like the belief that breaking a mirror will give you 7 years of bad luck. Obviously no one can disprove the later if you’re going to pretend we’re dealing in facts, yeah, you will get an argument from people.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

I suggest you go to your local community college and enroll a course on basic logic. Conflation of two positions is not a valid logical argument.

Like it or not, EVERYTHING is a belief system, that is a indisputable fact. Everything you chose to believe or refuse to believe is based upon sensory input to your brain. I.e. electrical impulses converted into symbolic abstract representations in your brain of the information your senses sends to your brain. In your brain is a database of abstract symbolic concepts that in “FACT” are nothing more than electrical impulses that you interpret as the world around you.

Here is another indisputable “FACT” planet earth occupies less than 1.616×10−35 percent of the known visible universe. More importantly, the known visible Universe occupies about the same percentage of the actual Universe as the earth occupies of the known visible Universe. Ergo, the Universe is a might damned big place. We on the other hand occupy a might damned small section of the Universe. The conclusion here is pretty obvious to anyone possessing even a small degree of self-honesty.

Now examine the self defeating logic of your own premiss,

atheists are at least just as likely to be right as true believers

. You cannot divide by zero. Your assertion here is an attempt to divide by Zero.

In other words, those who genuinely do not believe that God exists, do not believe that he does not exist. What they believe is that they have never seen any valid justification for believing that he does exist.

Not believing that God exists is not the same as believing that god does not exist. Those are two completely different statement having two completely different values. One requires a belief for which their is absolutely zero factual evidence, the other does not.

Making the statement

atheists are at least just as likely to be right as true believers

is an attempt to set the value of two complete different statements at parity. In other words, an attempt to divide by zero.

Why it is a divide by zero error is that in order for the atheist to be just as likely to be right, is that it requires the atheist to believe something that they do not believe.

Most people, like yourself, who claim to be atheists, are in fact, not atheists, but anti-theists. It isn’t that you do not believe that God exists, but that you actively proselytize the belief that he does not exist. A supposition for which you have absolutely zero factual evidence to support. The basic logical rule, “lack of evidence is not evidence of a lack” comes firmly and irrefutably into play.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Which brings me to, WHY do you spend so much time and energy trying to do so? Why do you care if we follow Christ? Why do you want us to turn down His promise of eternal life and follow your way?

What do you have to offer that is any better than that?

LissaKay on December 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM

I don’t care if you turn down a promise to be immortal or not. And I have nothing better to offer, nor am I offering to lead anyone anywhere.

My point is that I shouldnt have to live in a country where the morals, rules, etc., are decided by nutjob progressives, nor should I have to follow arbitrary rules made by the true believers.

Believe what you want, but have some humility about it, and don’t try to enforce your views on me.

I’m sick of big government types using the monopoly on force of the government to tell everyone else how to live their lives.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Most people, like yourself, who claim to be atheists, are in fact, not atheists, but anti-theists. It isn’t that you do not believe that God exists, but that you actively proselytize the belief that he does not exist. A supposition for which you have absolutely zero factual evidence to support. The basic logical rule, “lack of evidence is not evidence of a lack” comes firmly and irrefutably into play.

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Yeppers, I never understand this part. If you don’t believe that God exists and are confident in that belief– why feel the need to school those that do?

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Face it, Skippy, you are presenting a minority viewpoint…of one.

What you present is your interpretation of one part of the Bible, slated to fit your own myopic, jaded view of God’s Word, and Christians in general.

Face it, Doooood. You’re not presenting yourself very well.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I’m sick of big government types using the monopoly on force of the government to tell everyone else how to live their lives.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Someone else that believes the “ooh shiny” when progressives say that socons want to be in their bedrooms.

Answer me this: which group is fighting the change using the judiciary? Which group is just trying to stop the change?

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I did read the references you “provided” and you’re still wrong. Your version requires a very tendentious reading of Scripture – more so even than some of the militant athiests. It also contradicts Jesus’ words referencing the two “greatest commandments” which only makes any sense when referring to the traditional “two tables” of the Law.
I’m curious what you think of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, btw. Also, your opinion on Luther’s German translation. Your answer should be interesting.
GWB on December 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

All right, let’s do this.

Your version requires a very tendentious reading of Scripture – more so even than some of the militant athiests

Why would you say that? Because I’m choosing to take the words used a LITERAL and intended as they were said? The ONLY time the words 10 commandments are used are when listing the ten laws actually put on the tablets. And they ARE different from the accepted set, which were never put on stone, never written down, and were only Moses repeating the things he heard. It’s just the way it is. I’m sorry. The actual ten commandments given by god, carved in stone, are almost completely different.

So… Either the bibles faulty when read literally and what Moses told people god said supercedes the actual carved and referred to as “the ten commandments” rules. Or… I’m right and the real ten commandments are something different and the interpretation has been altered to be more palatable, applicable, and consumable. As I said.

It also contradicts Jesus’ words referencing the two “greatest commandments” which only makes any sense when referring to the traditional “two tables” of the Law.

It only makes sense that way to YOU. You assume Jesus had to be referencing the ones your used to, but you have zero scriptural support to base it on. The commandments carved in the tablets are NOT the ones you think they are, read the book, it’s just the way it is.

I’m curious what you think of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, btw. Also, your opinion on Luther’s German translation. Your answer should be interesting.

What do I think about those? I think you’re proving my original point for me, that’s what I think. My original post and what my subsequent posts came out of was referring to a quote from the story.

It would be equally absurd to think that anyone would base their faith on the amended product

Because its not absurd to think people would accept amended versions at all and base their faith on it. Because, in fact, and given all the examples of different versions you laid out, as well as basic accepted things in modern Christianity such as the 10 commandments show very clearly that people WILL accept amended versions and base their faith on them.

Modern Christianity itself IS an amended version in so many countless ways, yet you still base your faith on it. Even when it can be showed to have been changed, amended, or altered.

Good enough for you? ;)

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:32 AM

SWalker on December 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Very well stated.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:33 AM

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Because I’m not trying to use the government to enforce my beliefs on you. I don’t agree with a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean I think they should be illegal.

You can live your life however you see fit, and it won’t bother me at all. But don’t use the power of government to force me to conform to your cobbled together moral code derived from your bible.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:33 AM

King Troll. Why keep feeding him?

ronsfi on December 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM

So, as I posted earlier, here we have posters spending an inordinate amount of time, feverishly trying to disprove the existance of God, Whom they claim not to believe in, in the first place.
Meanwhile, 92% of Americans believe in God, 78 % proclaim Christianity.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

And once again kingjester pulls out his tattered and tired argumentum ad populum in an agitated attempt to defend Almighty God.

Foxhound on December 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:18 AM
Face it, Skippy, you are presenting a minority viewpoint…of one.
What you present is your interpretation of one part of the Bible, slated to fit your own myopic, jaded view of God’s Word, and Christians in general.
Face it, Doooood. You’re not presenting yourself very well.
kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

A minority viewpoint? Absolutely.

But the scriptural accurate viewpoint? Also absolutely.

You’re the one basing your faith on altered interpretations of very clearly explained biblical circumstance.

YOU are the one not taking the bible literally.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Foxhound on December 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM

And, once again, someone thought a fool, speaks…and removes all doubt.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Someone else that believes the “ooh shiny” when progressives say that socons want to be in their bedrooms.

Answer me this: which group is fighting the change using the judiciary? Which group is just trying to stop the change?

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Both groups are fighting over MY rights without consulting me, and without any constitutional basis.

Government should not be in the bedroom, the boardroom, or the doctors office.

Using congress to subvert the constitutional limits placed on the federal government is hardly preferable to using judges.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:37 AM

You’re the one basing your faith on altered interpretations of very clearly explained biblical circumstance.

YOU are the one not taking the bible literally.

Genuine on December 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM

You are the one cherry-picking, pompous one.

What part of the fact that your statements are strictly your opinion, don’t you understand?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Because I’m not trying to use the government to enforce my beliefs on you. I don’t agree with a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean I think they should be illegal.

Bet you are..Are you for tax cuts? That means you are forcing YOUR beliefs on those that say we need higher taxes. EVERYTHING you vote for forces someone to change.

You can live your life however you see fit, and it won’t bother me at all. But don’t use the power of government to force me to conform to your cobbled together moral code derived from your bible.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:33 AM

You don’t read? well. I am an agnostic. Just because I am well versed in Judeo-Christian history, doesn’t mean I prescribe to it. What issue are socons “using” the government to make you conform Are socons using the judiciary? Are socons calling for change or are they fighting to keep laws the way they are? Who exactly is pushing their views on to you? And furthermore, why shouldn’t socons decide what goes for their society? How is it any different from YOU deciding what goes for your society?

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Both groups are fighting over MY rights without consulting me, and without any constitutional basis

Really how so?

Government should not be in the bedroom, the boardroom, or the doctors office.

How is not wanting their state to change STATE RECOGNITION of a private relationship big government or in someone’s bedroom? Marriage is not private or small government or you wouldn’t need state sanction.

How is protecting a life that isn’t someone’s property getting in the doctor’s office? I mean a doctor murder in their office based on your basis of reality?

Using congress to subvert the constitutional limits placed on the federal government is hardly preferable to using judges.

Timin203 on December 27, 2012 at 11:37 AM

So you are saying that state voters deciding their marriage laws or other various laws are Unconstitutional. Sweetie, you don’t need to read the Bible. You need to bone up on the Constitution..

melle1228 on December 27, 2012 at 11:41 AM

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