Quotes of the day

posted at 9:01 pm on December 26, 2012 by Allahpundit

Fifty-eight percent of Americans now say they favor stricter gun laws, up from 43% in October 2011. And the American public, which favored enforcing existing gun laws over passing new ones by a 60%-35% in 2011, now is split on the issue, with 46% favoring enforcing current laws and 47% favoring passing new ones.

In terms of specific laws, however, the ban on assault weapons, which are a favorite target of gun control advocates — including Obama — hasn’t gained any significant support, according to the poll. Forty-four percent support such a move and 51% are against it. In October 2011, 43% supported an assault weapons ban and 51% said they were against it.

***

When Twenty Minutes Is Forever. According to the CNN timeline for the Sandy Hook tragedy, “Police and other first responders arrived on scene about 20 minutes after the first calls.” Twenty minutes. Five minutes is forever when violence is underway, but 20 minutes — a third of an hour — means that the “first responders” aren’t likely to do much more than clean up the mess.

This has led to calls — in Texas, Tennessee, Virginia, St. Louis — for armed officers or staff at schools. Some object. But we have people with guns protecting airports, hospitals and politicians. And leading anti-gun crusaders like New York’s billionaire Mayor Mike Bloomberg and press lord Rupert Murdoch are protected by armed security teams that could probably topple some third-world governments. Why are our children less worthy of protection?

Then there are our homes. If police took twenty minutes to respond at a school, how likely are they to get to your house in time? For those of us without “security teams,” the answer isn’t reassuring.

***

E. Fuller Torrey and Doris A. Fuller recently explained on these pages how the dismantling of public psychiatric hospitals that began in the late 1960s was a social catastrophe. Thousands of unstable people were released into a world with few medical or cultural guardrails, and there are even fewer restraints today…

After every gun trauma, people call for a “conversation” about how to manage these disorders of the mind, but like the gun “conversation” that liberals want to have, it never advances. A Hartford judge named Robert K. Killian Jr. has been arguing for a bill in the Connecticut legislature that would give the state the authority to forcibly medicate and stabilize people with severe mental disabilities like schizophrenia for up to 120 days. Judge Killian is working from his own experience with repeat offenders, but Democrats keep killing the bill on civil liberties grounds.

A good-faith effort to modernize mental health law also requires the political right to answer some hard questions. The often squalid and brutal mental asylum system of the 1950s isn’t coming back, and it shouldn’t. Can the social service planners who can’t run health care, education or public housing be trusted to identify when erratic, disruptive or alarming behavior tips over into pathological danger? Probably not, but states with so-called assisted outpatient treatment laws have shown results in limiting violence among the mentally ill.

This strikes us as a more promising path to reduce the number of mass shootings than another long and politically frustrating battle over gun control.

***

Teach our kids about the acts of heroes in times of crisis. Tell them about Newtown teacher Vicki Soto’s self-sacrifice and bravery. Tell them about Clackamas-mall shopper Nick Meli, a concealed-carry-permit holder whose quick action may have prevented additional deaths. Tell them about Family Research Council security guard Leo Johnson, who protected workers from a crazed gunman. Tell them about the heroic men in the Aurora movie theater who gave their lives taking bullets for their loved ones. Tell them about armed Holocaust Museum security guard Stephen Tyrone Johns, who died fighting back against the museum’s nutball attacker. Tell them about armed private citizen Jeanne Assam, who gunned down the New Life Church attacker in Colorado Springs and saved untold lives.

Train our kids. When they see something troublesome or wrong, they should say something. Students, teachers, and parents: If a young classmate exhibits bizarre or violent behavior toward himself or herself, report it right away. If it gets ignored, say it louder. Don’t give up. Don’t just shrug off the “weirdo” saying or doing dangerous things, and don’t just hope someone else will act…

We still don’t know the medical condition of the Newtown shooter. But we do know that social stigmas are strong. We don’t need government to take immediate, individual action to break those stigmas. There are millions of children, teens, and young adults suffering from very real mental illnesses. Be silent no more about your family’s experiences, your struggles, your pains, and your fears. Speak up.

***

Their post-Newtown strategy was always to prevent an effective response from the pro-gun freedom side by both rapid action and by demonization. But the holidays and the kabuki theater that is the fiscal cliff drama meant that legislative action, their Holy Grail, would have to wait. That gave people time to think and the gun freedom side the time to react…

But gun freedom advocates fought back. Using the mainstream media, conservative media and especially social media – we need to understand its huge significance here – gun freedom advocates countered liberals’ bogus “facts.” Media reports about “automatic” weapons were corrected, clownish statements about “high caliber magazines” and “large capacity round” were mocked. The struggle raged over millions of Facebook posts. The average citizen saw gun banners ask “When will America control access to weapons?” and then saw several experts among his or her friends post about the significant hurdles one needs to get over to get a gun. Truth bypassed the mainstream media and became a weapon for the side of fundamental rights.

The banners overplayed their hand, losing credibility with every distortion, evasion and smear. The cries of “Blood is on your hands!” failed to resonate – reasonable Americans just did not blame the actions of a single sociopath on millions of their fellow neighbors.

***

***

Via NRO.

***

“The NRA’s absolutist position on gun issues is an impediment to the safety and security of the public,” Moran said in a statement. “This legislation is designed to highlight that schism, offering popular proposals even NRA members support to prevent more gun-related tragedies.”…

Luntz found that:

• 74 percent of NRA members support criminal background checks on all potential gun buyers — as opposed to current law, which requires background checks only on those who buy from licensed gun dealers;

• 79 percent of NRA members back requiring gun retailers to perform background checks on all employees;

• 71 percent of NRA members would bar those on the FBI’s terrorist watch-list from buying and owning guns;

• 64 percent of NRA members support requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen firearms.


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…HAS to be…TIME or Newsweek !

KOOLAID2 on December 26, 2012 at 11:13 PM

.
It was the last print edition of Newsweek – signed by Tina Brown!

PolAgnostic on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

I’m moving to elk country hopefully by fall.. .270win is a little small. So yea, something around there would work. Not that I ever planned hunting elk with a .50cal. A Ruger #1 would work in .300 win mag for sure. My poor shoulder.

wolly4321 on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

I have been tuning most of the media coverage out so this is the first time I saw this 20 minute elapsed time and I am outraged by it.

20 minutes!!!

WTF !!! How is THIS not the story?

What type of “first reponders” take 20 MINUTES to get to an elementary school when there are reports of “shots fired” ???

PolAgnostic on December 26, 2012 at 11:13 PM

…Joe Biteme…will NEVER KNOW!

KOOLAID2 on December 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Tell them about Clackamas-mall shopper Nick Meli, a concealed-carry-permit holder whose quick action may have prevented additional deaths.

I think it would be better not to. It might have been as you claim but we don’t know, and never will, so this is not a good example to use. Using poor examples just makes you less credible. Why do that? We don’t know for sure if the gunman even saw this Nick fellow. And it seems very strange that if the gunman was afraid that this Nick would shoot him, he would shoot himself. Even if he thought that someone was going to soon take a shot at him why wouldn’t he have kept firing, including at the guy he thought might be about to shoot at him? Are we to believe that the gunman thought if he shot himself that it would hurt less or he would be less dead?

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:27 PM

Heh. Check out http://www.drudgereport.com/

[davidk on December 26, 2012 at 9:21 PM]

Are you referring to the story suggesting Allahpundit is helping us to live forever?

/STUDY: Expressing Anger Can Add Two Years to Your Lifespan…

Dusty on December 26, 2012 at 11:28 PM

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:27 PM

A coward that didn’t want to spend the rest of his worthless life in prison. These scumbags have already decided to commit suicide. They just want to be remembered.

Most reports agree, once he was confronted, he took the cowards way out.

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM

/STUDY: Expressing Anger Can Add Two Years to Your Lifespan…

Dusty on December 26, 2012 at 11:28 PM

If that’s true then Michelle Obama would have lived to at least a million years old if hubby had lost the election.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:33 PM

wolly4321 on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Actually .270 is more then enough. It’s all about bullet placement i.e. gun control

jrsrigmvr on December 26, 2012 at 11:34 PM

And it seems very strange that if the gunman was afraid that this Nick would shoot him, he would shoot himself.

VorDaj

And yet, that’s pretty much the standard MO for many of these mass shooters. Strange though it may be, unusual it is not. They most likely do it because they don’t want to be taken alive, because being taken alive means going to prison.

xblade on December 26, 2012 at 11:35 PM

If anybody says that the people should not have automatic weapons, then they need read the Declaration of Independence.

The Constitution would have never been ratified without the promise of the Bill of Rights; which are the “Among These” defined in the Declaration of Independence defining “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

One of many inalienable rights abuses listed against King George in the Declaration of Independence was:

“He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the civil power.”

If having a military power superior to civil power was an abuse of an unalienable right then, it is an abuse of an unaleinable right now.

They established the second amendment to prevent that abuse from ever reoccurring.

The People nor the Government have the power to change or abolish inalienable rights. They cannot be given away, taken away, sold or transferred.

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM

The NRA’s not listening to the public

Good news!! I’m not a member of the NRA so they can cave to a public poll immediately after 20 children are murdered.

Dollayo on December 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM

wolly4321 on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

The .270 Winchester is sufficient for anything in North America, when loaded with proper ammunition.

Rather than use a >300WinMag, why not try out the .300 Winchester Short Magnum. You’ll get the same velocity (in the heavier bullets) as in the big magnum – but with less recoil. And it’s even more accurate at distance.
I’m not at all fond of the WinMag, but the WinShort is great.

Solaratov on December 26, 2012 at 11:39 PM

A coward that didn’t want to spend the rest of his worthless life in prison. These scumbags have already decided to commit suicide. They just want to be remembered.

Most reports agree, once he was confronted, he took the cowards way out.

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM

It’s certainly possible, as are a whole lot of things. I prefer something more solid than just speculation even if it’s not unreasonable speculation. And, again, we don’t even know if he even saw the gun. It’s not like the other guy had started firing at him or even said, “Stop or I’ll fire!”.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:40 PM

sorry for the spell check fail, should be:

“If having a military power superior to civil power was an abuse of an inalienable right then, it is an abuse of an inaleinable right now.”

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:40 PM

If that’s true then Michelle Obama would have lived to at least a million years old if hubby had lost the election.

[VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:33 PM]

LOL.

Dusty on December 26, 2012 at 11:41 PM

If anybody says that the people should not have automatic weapons, then they need read the Declaration of Independence.

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM

The National Firearms Act back in 1934 decided that.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:40 PM

He saw, he knew he was up against a better man.

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Oddly enough, according to Frank Luntz, 81.3% of NRA members want all their guns classified as “Assault Weapons” and immediately Confiscated..

Who knew?

Galt2009 on December 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Dollayo on December 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM

If you want to support an organization that actually supports the 2nd Amendment, unlike the squirmish NRA, then you should support “Gun Owners of America”

http://gunowners.org/

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Most reports agree, once he was confronted, he took the cowards way out.

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM

The only report I saw/heard, and I live in the area, is from this Nick fellow and he said he, Nick, hid behind some column. We will never know if the gunman even saw him, let alone his gun. He may have, but a coin may land on tails too. We just don’t know and I’m not into “assuming”.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:48 PM

Still talking about guns control?… It is getting a really boring subject…

mnjg on December 26, 2012 at 11:48 PM

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

I understand it is “illegal”, I was just pointing out one of the long trains of abuse by our government.

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:49 PM

He saw, he knew he was up against a better man.

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Pure speculation like Global Warming.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:49 PM

[dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:40 PM]

There’s nothing wrong with spelling it the same way it’s spelled in the DoI. It’s less used but it’s not incorrect.

Dusty on December 26, 2012 at 11:50 PM

I’m moving to elk country hopefully by fall.. .270win is a little small. So yea, something around there would work. Not that I ever planned hunting elk with a .50cal. A Ruger #1 would work in .300 win mag for sure. My poor shoulder.

wolly4321 on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

.
Jack O’Connor took most of his with the .270 Win, way back when bullet technology wasn’t what it is today.

But the bottom line will always be; “use what you’re confident with.”

listens2glenn on December 26, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Oddly enough, according to Frank Luntz, 81.3% of NRA members want all their guns classified as “Assault Weapons” and immediately Confiscated..

Who knew?

Galt2009 on December 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM

I’m beginning to think Frank Luntz drinks a bit too much.

Perhaps his family should stage an intervention.

For his own good, of course.

Solaratov on December 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Supreme Court denies Hobby Lobby injunction to block Obamacare contraception mandate

Today, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to grant an injunction to Hobby Lobby and to another business, Christian bookstore Mardel. The businesses say they face devastating fines if they do not provide contraceptive coverage beginning Jan. 1, but that wasn’t enough to sway the court.

In part, Sotomayor wrote that, “while the applicants allege they will face irreparable harm if they are forced to choose between complying with the contraception-coverage requirement and paying significant fines, they cannot show that an injunction is necessary or appropriate.”

29Victor on December 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Dusty on December 26, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Very true

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:53 PM

Pure speculation like Global Warming.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:49 PM

Yeah, he decided what he was doing was wrong and used an operating weapon to end it all in view of an armed adversary. Long before police were there and still with plenty of ammunition.

You can chose to believe he did the right thing after doing so many wrong things. While the history of these cowards shows other wise.

cozmo on December 26, 2012 at 11:59 PM

Oddly enough, according to Frank Luntz, 81.3% of NRA members want all their guns classified as “Assault Weapons” and immediately Confiscated..

Who knew?

Galt2009 on December 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM

I’m beginning to think Frank Luntz drinks a bit too much.

Perhaps his family should stage an intervention.

For his own good, of course.

Solaratov on December 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Look at the results of the “Poll”:
Luntz found that:

• 74 percent of NRA members support criminal background checks on all potential gun buyers — as opposed to current law, which requires background checks only on those who buy from licensed gun dealers;

Goodbye privates sales

• 71 percent of NRA members would bar those on the FBI’s terrorist watch-list from buying and owning guns;

A list anyone could be on – without due process.

• 64 percent of NRA members support requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen firearms.

How is it the government’s affair if I lose a my personal property?

Are we supposed to believe that a majority of gun owners want EVEN more government intrusion into gun ownership?

I really wish I could spread the results of that poll on my crops – it would make mighty fine fertilizer.

Galt2009 on December 27, 2012 at 12:01 AM

This orgasmic Nugent smak down of Piers Morgan should have been in QOTD!!! Oye!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tMso12zeYDQ

katy on December 27, 2012 at 12:01 AM

I’m beginning to think Frank Luntz drinks a bit too much.

[Solaratov on December 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM]

No, he’s just letting his sentiments show and is using his expertise and position of authority to advance them. In short, Luntz has abandoned his neutral position in monitoring news and opinion on this subject and taken up one of rank partisanship.

Dusty on December 27, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Dusty on December 27, 2012 at 12:02 AM

More like the attention wh__ he is.

Article when the poll was published

Not quite was is being advertised now.

cozmo on December 27, 2012 at 12:10 AM

If the Left Only Fought The Causes of Crime With The (Ill-Informed) Gusto That They Fight The Second Amendment….

[I'm now having the distinct fun of educating Rupert Murdoch on American gun laws. There are various ways to men's hearts depending upon their characters, idiosyncrasies, etc., but telling a billionaire newsman that "Education is your friend. Embrace it!" was the golden key that unlocked the platinum padlock. If I must say so myself, he has a good teacher....or, at least, a helluva better one than O'Reilly or Hannity. Now, we need to get him on our side.]

Resist We Much on December 27, 2012 at 12:14 AM

[cozmo on December 27, 2012 at 12:10 AM]

Maybe, but your evidence leaves more than enough room for both of us to be right.

Dusty on December 27, 2012 at 12:19 AM

EXCELLENT read for anybody who want to take the time:

http://www.pacificwestcom.com/independence/

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 12:20 AM

[Dusty on December 27, 2012 at 12:19 AM]

Okay, I’ll revise my “sentiments” to “interests”.

Dusty on December 27, 2012 at 12:20 AM

[Resist We Much on December 27, 2012 at 12:14 AM]

Thanks for that.

Dusty on December 27, 2012 at 12:28 AM

England is no more thanks to piss willies like piers moron.

SparkPlug on December 27, 2012 at 12:29 AM

I’m moving to elk country hopefully by fall.. .270win is a little small. So yea, something around there would work. Not that I ever planned hunting elk with a .50cal. A Ruger #1 would work in .300 win mag for sure. My poor shoulder.

wolly4321 on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

.
Savage makes some very nice rifles in Win 300 Mag that include a muzzle brake. The reviews say it takes the 300 Win Mag recoil (which is harsh) down to the level of a .308.

The .270 Winchester is sufficient for anything in North America, when loaded with proper ammunition.

Rather than use a >300WinMag, why not try out the .300 Winchester Short Magnum. You’ll get the same velocity (in the heavier bullets) as in the big magnum – but with less recoil. And it’s even more accurate at distance.
I’m not at all fond of the WinMag, but the WinShort is great.

Solaratov on December 26, 2012 at 11:39 PM

.
Using MidwayUSA as a baseline, the cheapest .300 WSM runs ~ $ 1.50/round …

… but the Prvi Partizan .300 Winchester Magnum 180 Grain Soft Point Box of 20 is ~ $ 1.00/round and is getting very good reviews.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/282745/prvi-partizan-ammunition-300-winchester-magnum-180-grain-soft-point-box-of-20

For the price difference I can get 50% more ammunition and similar ballistics … and I am personally leery of reloading brass that is as severely necked down as the .300 WSM.

YMMV :)

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 12:32 AM

“If having a military power superior to civil power was an abuse of an inalienable right then, it is an abuse of an inaleinable right now.”

dom89031 on December 26, 2012 at 11:40 PM

Well, good. That point bears repeating anyway, well said.

However, “abuse” seems a rather understated term to use there, given present circumstances, doesn’t it? What’s happening now is not simply abuse, it is outright subversion, utter corruption and worse, and should be treated as fully criminal in its magnitude now until proven otherwise. The damage being done by this mob robbing the wealth of America has gone from merely disastrous, to careening into catastrophe – and they have to be impeded at every turn.

They should get nothing more “for free”. I think we’ve all had enough of watching this Chicago mob writ large, take so much from others “for free”. Thank God for the Tea Party, and the courageous citizen legislators we got elected in 2010 and retained in 2012. We must support them, applaud them when they successfully resist like they have, and bring them some reinforcements in 2014.

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 12:34 AM

I own a firearm…

… multiple ones in fact.

I took the time to get trained, and have instructed Little 7% in the proper care, handling, safety, and use of them…

… He is 10 1/2 years old and understands that if anything happens to me, he has a “tool” to survive.

We don’t ride around in pick-up trucks firing mindlessly into the air and into neighbor’s houses…

… We are responsible citizens, who go about our daily lives saying “Please” and “Thank You”.

But if it is your intent to take the “Right” of self defense from us…

… we are going to have a serious disagreement.

Seven Percent Solution on December 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

So were Americans duped? Sure. They were told to believe one thing only to discover right after the election reality was something else.

But with another four years of hope and change, you can be sure of one thing: Americans have many more “surprises” in store.

Schadenfreude on December 27, 2012 at 12:39 AM

But if it is your intent to take the “Right” of self defense from us…

… we are going to have a serious disagreement.

Seven Percent Solution on December 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

.
Anyone who wants to take away our right to defend ourselves per the social contract known as the Bill of Rights …

… has abrogated their status as a citizen and should find themselves treated as a non-citizen.

This would then excuse them from voting and a wide variety of other “perks”.

If I remember my American history correctly, Royalists did not prosper after the American Revolution.

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 12:45 AM

How is it the government’s affair if I lose a my personal property?

Are we supposed to believe that a majority of gun owners want EVEN more government intrusion into gun ownership?

I really wish I could spread the results of that poll on my crops – it would make mighty fine fertilizer.

Galt2009 on December 27, 2012 at 12:01 AM

You are the dickhead who was talking about how great Israel was with guns and gun ownership. Reap what you sow.

lexhamfox on December 27, 2012 at 12:47 AM

Anyone who wants to take away our right to defend ourselves per the social contract known as the Bill of Rights …

… has abrogated their status as a citizen and should find themselves treated as a non-citizen.

This would then excuse them from voting and a wide variety of other “perks”.

If I remember my American history correctly, Royalists did not prosper after the American Revolution.

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 12:45 AM

There’s a wall for that.

tom daschle concerned on December 27, 2012 at 12:49 AM

How is it the government’s affair if I lose a my personal property?

Are we supposed to believe that a majority of gun owners want EVEN more government intrusion into gun ownership?

I really wish I could spread the results of that poll on my crops – it would make mighty fine fertilizer.

Galt2009 on December 27, 2012 at 12:01 AM

.
Touche.

listens2glenn on December 27, 2012 at 1:04 AM

I have been tuning most of the media coverage out so this is the first time I saw this 20 minute elapsed time and I am outraged by it.

20 minutes!!!

WTF !!! How is THIS not the story?

What type of “first reponders” take 20 MINUTES to get to an elementary school when there are reports of “shots fired” ???

PolAgnostic on December 26, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I saw a Google map tonight that showed it’s about 2.3 miles from the police station and about a 7-8 minute normal drive time.

I looked it up and the town is divided into five police patrol sectors. The elementary school should have been in one of them and I’d like to know why at least one car wasn’t there in under 5 minutes.

Even if other cars were further away than the station, I would think for something like this that the chief or whoever was available at the station would get in his car and go.

It’s a scandal.

INC on December 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM

“Americans more scared of guns than fiscal cliff”.

I really have to move to another country.

The Rogue Tomato on December 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM

Seven Percent Solution on December 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

Little TXUS, same age as your son, has been trained similarly. He can break down and clean (with a little help) every one of my firearms, including some that they now want to ban, and his own .22 rifle and .410 shotgun as well. He knows from the first time he ever saw one that all arms are to be assumed to be loaded and hot, and to never treat them otherwise.

He is still too young yet to efficiently handle the actual loading and firing of some of the heavier, semi- and full-auto units that I have, but knows how and when to deploy them if a need arises.

When he was younger, he was upset with me as to why he couldn’t have squirt guns and such, like his friends had, but thankfully now appreciates that they were just toys and that real guns are not toys or something to be trifled with.

The gun-control nuts have no concept of how we here in the fly-over country actually handle firearm safety. They never will.

TXUS on December 27, 2012 at 1:28 AM

When Twenty Minutes Is Forever. According to the CNN timeline for the Sandy Hook tragedy, “Police and other first responders arrived on scene about 20 minutes after the first calls.” Twenty minutes. Five minutes is forever when violence is underway, but 20 minutes — a third of an hour — means that the “first responders” aren’t likely to do much more than clean up the mess.

Well said. I agree with you Allah. I swear your becoming less squishy everyday.

SparkPlug on December 27, 2012 at 1:31 AM

I saw a Google map tonight that showed it’s about 2.3 miles from the police station and about a 7-8 minute normal drive time.

I looked it up and the town is divided into five police patrol sectors. The elementary school should have been in one of them and I’d like to know why at least one car wasn’t there in under 5 minutes.

Even if other cars were further away than the station, I would think for something like this that the chief or whoever was available at the station would get in his car and go.

It’s a scandal.

INC on December 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM

.
This is reprehensible.

Since Columbine, the training for LEO’s has been “Don’t wait - go in and engage!”
.
HEY !!! Ed, AP, MKH !!!

Why are YOU not questioning this timeline?

How does this not torque your brains ???

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 1:32 AM

I saw a Google map tonight that showed it’s about 2.3 miles from the police station and about a 7-8 minute normal drive time.

I looked it up and the town is divided into five police patrol sectors. The elementary school should have been in one of them and I’d like to know why at least one car wasn’t there in under 5 minutes.

Even if other cars were further away than the station, I would think for something like this that the chief or whoever was available at the station would get in his car and go.

It’s a scandal.

INC on December 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM

The officers available were probably engaged otherwise, as in running down “criminals” who’d violated CT’s extreme gun-control laws.

TXUS on December 27, 2012 at 1:42 AM

It’s a scandal.

INC on December 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM

gag. When I first heard that “20 minutes” response time I just figured that had to be the usual errant reporting we get, but if this is really true I shudder to think what this really reeks of.

I’ve chatted with more than a few online who fully believe the whole Newtown incident is all a setup, for the express purpose of what it’s doing – to stir heated chaos and division, and create a fundamental constitutional ‘crisis’ to take our eye off the ball, so to speak. If this kid has been under psychiatric care and drugs for any number of years, (and I’ll be shocked if it wasn’t heavy psychiatric involvement,) this could be any scandal a conspiracy theorist could want. I bet we never find out the truth.

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 1:51 AM

INC on December 27, 2012 at 1:05 AM

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 1:32 AM

How about this gem:

http://youtu.be/30sjtuXcvOE

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 2:06 AM

The officers available were probably engaged otherwise, as in running down “criminals” who’d violated CT’s extreme gun-control laws.

TXUS on December 27, 2012 at 1:42 AM

.
The firehouse was close enough to the school that they evacuated the children there ON FOOT

are NONE of the Newtown firefighters EMT’s or Paramedics?

They could have RUN to the school in less than 5 minutes … so why weren’t THEY there first?

This is beginning to creep me out … as well as making me more upset.

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 2:07 AM

I’m moving to elk country hopefully by fall.. .270win is a little small. So yea, something around there would work. Not that I ever planned hunting elk with a .50cal. A Ruger #1 would work in .300 win mag for sure. My poor shoulder.

wolly4321 on December 26, 2012 at 11:18 PM

.30-06 will take anything in N. America, particularly in the wooded / ridge areas – the effective ranges – where you’ll find elk. And will be a lot easier on both your shoulder and wallet.
Lot of overwrought nonsense over hunting calibers in this country, too. Buy something like in the belted-magnum class if you WANT it, but don’t make the mistake of thinking you NEED it. The game won’t know the difference. Or more likely WILL, because the more expensive ammo will mean you shoot less, so your marksmanship will be worse and the game will suffer rather than making a clean kill.

rayra on December 27, 2012 at 2:07 AM

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 2:07 AM

http://www.sott.net/article/254873-Sandy-Hook-massacre-Official-story-spins-out-of-control

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 2:09 AM

Still talking about guns control?… It is getting a really boring subject…

mnjg on December 26, 2012 at 11:48 PM

Shut your ignorant hole. There is NOTHING more important to the future of these United States, than the integrity of the 2nd Amendment.

rayra on December 27, 2012 at 2:10 AM

… and I am personally leery of reloading brass that is as severely necked down as the .300 WSM.

YMMV :)

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 12:32 AM

Why? It’sfully supported by the chamber. And it’s going back in the same rifle so just neck-size it and routinely check/ trim. You can readily get 3-4 loadings with it. And if you are loading it anyway, just keep the pressures reasonable.
All that applies to any bottle-necked cartridge, in a bolt-action.

rayra on December 27, 2012 at 2:16 AM

/STUDY: Expressing Anger Can Add Two Years to Your Lifespan…

Dusty on December 26, 2012 at 11:28 PM

If that’s true then Michelle Obama would have lived to at least a million years old if hubby had lost the election.

VorDaj on December 26, 2012 at 11:33 PM

She’d live to a million anyway.

She comes from a very mean country, you see.

Alberta_Patriot on December 27, 2012 at 2:23 AM

Hi Axe.

SparkPlug on December 27, 2012 at 2:26 AM

How about this gem:

http://youtu.be/30sjtuXcvOE

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 2:06 AM

“He was denied the sale of the rifle due to the 10-day waiting period” WTF? Kid wasn’t even 21 in the first place, and did he try to use his brother’s ID? I really want to know the real facts of his alleged, attempted purchase of a rifle, too.

The longer they withhold information, the more blanks will be filled in by others. They better come clean, and really squeaky clean and soon or this really could get uglier.

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 2:27 AM

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 2:27 AM

I would like to know who the guy they caught in the woods was.

http://youtu.be/ovspEgeMXb4

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 2:36 AM

Frank Luntz is a paid pollster for Michael Bloomberg’s Stupid Mayors for Stupid Gun Laws group.

He makes the results that they write checks to him to get.

Please remember this.

quax1 on December 27, 2012 at 2:55 AM

I would like to know who the guy they caught in the woods was.

http://youtu.be/ovspEgeMXb4

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 2:36 AM

At about 17 secs in on this interview, it sounds like the cops just found some guy out there cutting wood, but I could be hearing it wrong. He did emphatically state there “were no other arrests”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=qid9sE51d1k&NR=1

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Hmmm…if thats all that was, it’s interesting that there has been no media clarification on that as of yet. I also found his choice of words interesting: “IF we found anybody in the woods cutting wood, then they would be detained”, not “We found a guy cutting wood in the woods and he was beifly detained”

Either way, I agree questions need to be answered and answered fast because as you stated earlier…the blanks are being filled in by others.

dom89031 on December 27, 2012 at 3:14 AM

I’ve chatted with more than a few online who fully believe the whole Newtown incident is all a setup, for the express purpose of what it’s doing – to stir heated chaos and division, and create a fundamental constitutional ‘crisis’ to take our eye off the ball, so to speak. If this kid has been under psychiatric care and drugs for any number of years, (and I’ll be shocked if it wasn’t heavy psychiatric involvement,) this could be any scandal a conspiracy theorist could want. I bet we never find out the truth.

Harbingeing on December 27, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Read Matthew Bracken’s novels.

Who is John Galt on December 27, 2012 at 3:34 AM

It’s too late…

Who is John Galt on December 27, 2012 at 3:38 AM

B9

SparkPlug on December 27, 2012 at 3:41 AM

So, a bunch of B and C listers babble their nonsense at me and it is supposed to change my mind based solely on my current emotion of outrage and any respect (lol!) that I am supposed to have for them?

Good luck with that one.

Theophile on December 27, 2012 at 3:58 AM

Hi Axe.

SparkPlug on December 27, 2012 at 2:26 AM

Hi Spark. :)

Axe on December 27, 2012 at 4:19 AM

TWENTY MINUTE RESPONSE TIME.

Isin’t that great!

TX-96 on December 27, 2012 at 5:53 AM

MeanWhile,..back at Turbo-Tax Geinther Fiscal Cliff
BrokeBack/Mountian Ranch(Snark)

Updated December 27, 2012, 5:07 a.m. ET
Debt Ceiling Nears as Budget Talks Stymied
******************************************

Treasury Says Borrowing Limit Will Be Reached Monday, Triggering Emergency Measures to Keep Government Operating

By DAMIAN PALETTA And JANET HOOK
********************************

The Treasury Department said Wednesday the government would hit its legal borrowing limit by Monday, setting in motion emergency measures to keep the government operating for several more weeks and serving as a reminder that the nation’s budget wrangling could continue well into 2013.

The Treasury’s financial maneuvering is designed to put off until February or March the prospect of a full-blown debt crisis. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s two-paragraph letter to Congress didn’t specify when the emergency measures might be exhausted, blaming the “significant uncertainty that now exists with regard to unresolved tax and spending policies for 2013.”

•Geithner’s Letter to Congress

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Geithner12262012.pdf

The White House and congressional leaders have shown no signs of progress toward crafting an agreement to avoid the year-end tax increases and spending cuts known as the fiscal cliff. President Barack Obama and Senate leaders will return to work Thursday, and they are running out of time to broker a deal before tax increases hit almost every working American.

A narrow deal to avert that outcome—a plausible result—might not include an agreement to raise the $16.394 trillion debt ceiling, as Democrats have pressed, meaning the big, unresolved questions over how the federal government should raise and spend money are likely to come to the fore as the debt deadline draws near.

The Geithner letter underscored how much the fiscal-cliff deliberations have frozen in place regular governmental activity. Mr. Geithner also said it wasn’t possible to know whether the 2012 tax-filing season would be delayed.

When Mr. Obama and House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) discussed a broad deficit-reduction agreement as recently as this month, the White House hoped to include a debt-limit increase that would put the issue to rest for two years or more. Mr. Boehner, in his final offer before talks collapsed, showed willingness to raise the debt limit for a year if Mr. Obama agreed to significant cuts in entitlement programs.

Political leaders are looking to advance a smaller package that focuses on blocking tax increases for most Americans and postponing or replacing scheduled spending cuts.

A senior Democratic aide said the prospect of including a debt-ceiling increase was “too much of a lift to pass either chamber” of Congress. The aide said he was “pessimistic” about the prospects of getting any bill through the Senate before Tuesday, which is Jan. 1, unless Messrs. Boehner and Obama strike a last-minute deal.

Mr. Boehner sent the House home on recess and said he would call members back with 48 hours notice if there was a deal to approve. Mr. Boehner held a conference call with his leadership team Wednesday and decided not to call lawmakers back, according to a senior House GOP aide. That means the House won’t be in session before this weekend. Mr. Boehner will hold another conference call Thursday open to all House Republicans.

The Senate is scheduled to reconvene Thursday, with no measures related to the fiscal cliff scheduled. Mr. Obama cut short his vacation in Hawaii to return to Washington on Thursday to help work on a deal. The White House’s goal is to determine what kind of deal might be acceptable to Senate Republicans.

The U.S. government has a hard limit on the amount of debt it can accumulate, and only Congress can raise it, which for years was a routine procedure. Without an increase, the U.S. would eventually default on its debt obligations, potentially sparking a financial crisis.

In 2011, the last time the Obama administration notified Congress about nearing the debt ceiling, Republicans said they wouldn’t raise the limit unless the White House agreed to major spending cuts. That standoff led to the Budget Control Act of 2011, which included the spending cuts set to take effect next week. It also ultimately led Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services to strip the U.S. government of its top-notch credit rating.

Moody’s Investors Service, another ratings firm, said Wednesday that reaching the borrowing limit wouldn’t change its top rating on the U.S., but it said the firm would downgrade the U.S. “if there is no solution in 2013 that produces a clear picture of the medium-term fiscal outlook and the medium-term debt trajectory.”

Mr. Obama has said he wouldn’t negotiate with Congress again over raising the debt ceiling, saying it is lawmakers’ responsibility to authorize payments for debts the country has already accumulated.

Treasury has known for months that the debt ceiling could be reached in December, which analysts have said would mean the emergency measures would keep the government operating until about late February.
==============

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323984704578203842315515834.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

canopfor on December 27, 2012 at 6:25 AM

MeanWhile as Obama’s Supporters Wine and Dine on Food Stamps,
(sarc)
————————————————————-

Obama begins Hawaiian Christmas vacation by playing golf with friend arrested for soliciting prostitute (and leaves fiscal cliff negotiations hanging)
*********************

By James Nye and Leslie Larson

PUBLISHED: 18:18 GMT, 22 December 2012
UPDATED: 04:12 GMT, 23 December 2012
*************************************

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2252162/Obama-begins-Hawaiian-Christmas-vacation-playing-golf-friend-arrested-soliciting-prostitute-leaves-fiscal-cliff-negotiations-hanging.html
=========================

Obama Christmas vacation to consume $4 million taxpayer dollars (Video)

obama christmas in Hawaii
December 24, 2012
*********************

While President Barack Obama are spending their family Christmas in Hawaii for the fifth straight year, federal and local taxpayers will wake up on the December 26th without a solution to the fiscal cliff but another $4 million will be added to the nation’s debt for security and travel expenses to an exclusive retreat on the island of Oahu. That money represents the additional taxes Obama wants 1238 families to pay; possibly for the next Hawaii vacation.

Obama dedicated transport: Air Force One landed in Honolulu after consuming $1,635,813 taxpayer dollars awaiting another $1,635,813 for the return flight. The first family were quickly driven by limo along with a 22 Secret Service vehicles to their vacation home in the beach town of Kailua, on the scenic Southeaster shore of Oahu. While the Obamas will pick up the price of their own accommodations, taxpayers will bear the costs of security and travel.

According to the Hawaii Adviser, “While many residents welcome the first family, others are disheartened by the restrictions put on air, water, and road travel while the president and family are in town, especially because it is the holiday season and many families on vacation want to use their boats or surf and paddle in the welcoming ocean waves fronting the Kailua homes; in addition, the president’s caravan of at least 22 vehicles, including an ambulance, can easily overwhelm the community that typically has single lane streets.”

No one begrudges the first family’s privilege to take a family vacation for Christmas, it does little to send an uplifting message to the millions of Americans that are frozen, literally, with concerns over the fiscal cliff while observing millions of dollars being expended to provide the Obama’s a vacation more than 6,000 miles from the White House. While the job of the president often requires the president to travel to far-away lands, a Christmas family get-together could easily have been had at Camp David, especially given the budget crisis America’s families are enduring and the possibility of the largest tax increase in American history surfacing on January 1, 2013.(More….)
========================================================

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-christmas-vacation-to-consume-4-million-taxpayer-dollars

canopfor on December 27, 2012 at 6:38 AM

LOL! Volt owners are going to be charged a $100 yearly fee because they don’t pay their fair share of gasoline taxes!

Night Owl on December 27, 2012 at 6:41 AM

O/T: Why aren’t we getting ready for the inauguration of Mitt Romney? My take. I know…I’m a troublemaker.:)

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 6:44 AM

canopfor on December 27, 2012 at 6:38 AM

And the tension builds on yet another fake CRISIS!!!

Night Owl on December 27, 2012 at 6:52 AM

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 6:44 AM

You ARE a troublemaker, but for the life of me I can not figure out why Romney’s son would say publicly that his father never wanted to be President.

Night Owl on December 27, 2012 at 6:55 AM

Night Owl on December 27, 2012 at 6:55 AM

Providing an excuse for the loss?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 6:57 AM

Providing an excuse for the loss?

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 6:57 AM

I suppose, but to me that is a really poor excuse. When you see people like Sarah Palin or Newt Gingrich or Rick Santorum still out there trying to explain and promote conservative ideas even though they didn’t win, you know that they actually believe what they say. I’m sure Romney needed a break after campaigning for six years for an office he didn’t want, but I don’t expect to see him out promoting or fighting for anything. Where was he between 2008 and 2011? I guess it’s true that it was just a bucket list item for him or whoever prompted him to run.

Night Owl on December 27, 2012 at 7:05 AM

Night Owl on December 27, 2012 at 7:05 AM

Could be. There are still a lot of unanswered questions.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 7:09 AM

“Fifty-eight percent of Americans now say they favor stricter gun laws, up from 43% in October 2011″. So what are the poll internals; that makes a difference. I imagine that in my rural county over 60% would not favor stricter gun control if it is a general question. Get specific, as in the NRA member polls, and guess what, stricter gun control is wanted.

We have a social experiment in Utah where CCW permit holders have been able to carry in schools and colleges since 2004. So where are the stats on less safe schools as the anti-gun pundits claim would happen if teachers were armed across the county.

amr on December 27, 2012 at 7:21 AM

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 7:09 AM

i remember saying that bachmann was a stalking horse for romney. fool me. romney was in fact a stalking horse for obama all along.

how else to explain the fury he attacked conservatives,but the meekness and kindness he directed towards obama?

renalin on December 27, 2012 at 7:30 AM

renalin on December 27, 2012 at 7:30 AM

Perhaps, the GOP Power Brokers believed that a full frontal assault on Obama would be seen as too “gauche” by the public.

…Even though, at least half the country doesn’t know what that word means.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 7:43 AM

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 7:43 AM

what is becoming clearer is that these “gop power brokers” are in cahoots with obama to shift this country to the left.

todays moderates will seem like the fringe in a few years.

renalin on December 27, 2012 at 7:58 AM

what is becoming clearer is that these “gop power brokers” are in cahoots with obama to shift this country to the left.

todays moderates will seem like the fringe in a few years.

renalin on December 27, 2012 at 7:58 AM

Yeah, I used to be leans left, then I was a moderate, and now, I’m a right wing nut. My actual views and beliefs have changed very little since my mid-twenties but now in my 50s, the ideology of our “leaders” has taken a hard left turn leaving me solidly on the other side. How is believing in a strong work ethic, wanting my government to be fiscally responsible and expecting my leaders to follow the Constitution now “right wing”?

*shaking my head*

Fallon on December 27, 2012 at 8:17 AM

Looks like a little less than 20 minutes from the original call until the building was cleared. So, not 20 minutes to get there. But given the grossly unreliable reporting to date, I wouldn’t bank on these numbers.

novaculus on December 27, 2012 at 8:21 AM

I read somewhere that it took eight minutes for the responders to get there. Way too long when you’ve got a situation like this. It only took police three minutes to respond at VA Tech and look at how many people were killed in that situation.

The bottom line is that Mr. LaPierre is right. Armed personnel at all schools is really the only answer- if we perceive that the threat of further school shootings is real and justifies some response.

Happy Nomad on December 27, 2012 at 8:46 AM

Fallon on December 27, 2012 at 8:17 AM

I feel your pain, my friend.

kingsjester on December 27, 2012 at 8:56 AM

novaculus on December 27, 2012 at 8:21 AM

.
The problem with that timeline is it is just quotes from the dispatcher who is not on scene.

There are none of the S.O.P. arriving on scene with timestamp “Officer ‘Smith’ just arrived at main entrance of Sandy Hook Elementary. No sign of shooter. No shots being fired at this time. Main entrance DOES show multiple signs a weapon was used to breach the doors.”

Each of those type of arriving on scene/location calls are mandatory for every unit responding to the site.

Quoting the dispatcher is intentionally providing only one side of the dialogue.

… and back to my point from early this morning:

The firehouse was close enough to the school that they evacuated the children there ON FOOT

… are NONE of the Newtown firefighters EMT’s or Paramedics?

They could have RUN to the school in less than 5 minutes … so why weren’t THEY there first?

The dispatcher names two separate GSW victims at 09:43:45 and 09:46:20 – when were the EMT’s and or Paramedics contacted by the dispatcher?

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM

I realize it isn’t verified. We still don’t have the facts, which is the point I was trying to make.

By the way, is your handle here your Twitter handle? I think I’ve been following a @PolAgnostic for some time who hasn’t followed back.

novaculus on December 27, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Yes, that is me. My twitter time has been scant since the election. I will follow back.

PolAgnostic on December 27, 2012 at 10:14 AM

If police took twenty minutes to respond at a school, how likely are they to get to your house in time?

About 15 years ago, we lived in a rural part of the county known as the “upper end”. A fire station was approximately one mile from my home. Sheriff’s officers made that a frequent stop for coffee, restroom breaks, and space to complete paper work, so it wasn’t uncommon to see a sherrif’s car parked at the fire house.

One night I heard a prowler outside my home. Law-abiding citizen that I am, I dialed 9-1-1, informed the operator that there was a prowler outside my home, gave her all my information, and requested an officer be dispatched. The dispatcher told me that I should stay inside and not attempt to confront the prowler. She added that all ‘units’ were currently occupied in the “lower end” of the county, but one would be at my home within 30 minutes. From there, the conversation went:

ME: “And what action do you suggest if this prowler breaks into my home?”
Dispatcher:” Just lock yourself in one room of your house and don’t try to confront them.”
M: “And if the prowler breaks into that room, what do you suggest at that point?”
D: “Well, sir, a unit should be there by then.”
M: “Tell you what. I just slapped a magazine with eight rounds into a 1911 model Colt. This clown can have anything he can carry outside, but once he enters my home I will consider him a “target acquired” and I will use deadly force. Tell your boys to take all the time they need to get here, but tell ‘em they better have all the paperwork and forms they need to write their reports. I’ll see ‘em when they get here.”

I then hung up the phone. 9-1-1 called back almost immediately, but I didn’t answer as I was headed for the source of the noise outside. Less than two minutes later, I heard sirens and within two minutes after that I had two sheriff’s cars in my driveway.

I (re)learned some important things that night:
1.) Law enforcement can’t be everywhere in a free nation.
2.) It took the threat of violence against a probable criminal to get an immediate response.
3.) From initial call to cops-in-driveway, the time required was probably close to 10 minutes.
4.) Had I NOT told a dispatcher I was armed, I would have waited 30 or more minutes for an officer.
5.) The county seems less concerned with protecting citizens than they should be.
6.) As the saying goes, “When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”
7.) In a crunch, I AM MY FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE.
8.) Sometimes, a broom or a 2×4 just isn’t enough…

oldleprechaun on December 27, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Senator Dianne Feinstein,

I will not register my weapons should this bill be passed, as I do not believe it is the government’s right to know what I own. Nor do I think it prudent to tell you what I own so that it may be taken from me by a group of people who enjoy armed protection yet decry me having the same a crime.

You ma’am have overstepped a line that is not your domain. I am a Marine Corps Veteran of 8 years, and I will not have some woman who proclaims the evil of an inanimate object, yet carries one, tell me I may not have one.

I am not your subject. I am the man who keeps you free. I am not your servant. I am the person whom you serve. I am not your peasant. I am the flesh and blood of America.

I am the man who fought for my country. I am the man who learned. I am an American. You will not tell me that I must register my semi-automatic AR-15 because of the actions of some evil man.

I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and your misinformation campaign against the American public.

We, the people, deserve better than you.

Respectfully Submitted,

Joshua Boston

Cpl, United States Marine Corps

2004-2012

Bmore on January 4, 2013 at 10:59 AM

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