Booker: I’m not afraid of law-abiding gun owners

posted at 10:31 am on December 24, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Allahpundit included a portion of this argument from Cory Booker in last night’s QOTD, but the video is worth watching at more length.  The mayor of Newark and prospective US Senate candidate grabbed the panel’s attention by asking, ”I don’t know if anybody here has seen someone shot. I have.”  In all of the shootings in his city, Booker says, only one was perpetrated by “a law-abiding citizen who is mentally stable and who bought a gun.”  “I’m not afraid of law abiding citizens who buy a gun,” Booker declared, and called the entire issue “a false debate” (via JWF and Instapundit):

The Newark Star-Ledger followed up with a report on Booker’s surprising response, including his assertion that going after the guns of law-abiding citizens is the wrong approach:

Booker pushed for stronger background checks on people looking to purchase guns and said a key way to curb gun violence is to shut down secondary markets.

“I’m not afraid of law-abiding citizens who buy a gun,” he said. “Buy the guns you want. What the problem is in America right now is that a terrorist person who is on the no-fly list could go into the secondary market today and buy a weapon.”

“Criminals are killing people,” the mayor added. “Not law-abiding gun owners.”…

“Listen to me, the people dying in Chicago, the people dying in Newark are not being done with law-abiding gun owners,” Booker continued. “We do not need to go after the guns. A law-abiding mentally stable American, that’s not America’s problem.”

“We trace the weapons that come into my city,” the mayor added. “And when residents look to me and they say, ‘Stop the carnage, Cory,’ what I say is with the guns we’re tracing, I have no power to stop them coming into my city as (Chicago Mayor) Rahm (Emanuel) does them coming into Chicago. They’re coming from places that have free secondary markets where criminals and gun runners so easily buy weapons and pump them into communities like mine where it is easy for a person who is a criminal to get their hands on a gun.”

Most people I know don’t have an issue with background checks for gun purchases, either.  I went through that for my carry permit, which in this state allows me to buy a firearm over the counter from a licensed dealer.   I haven’t ever heard any gun-rights organization oppose background checks, although they have grumbled about waiting periods.  Controls in “secondary markets” are a fair topic for debate, but sales at gun shows and by mail-order have to abide by the same laws as dealers for background checks; in fact, sales by mail must be concluded through a federally-licensed dealer, who conducts the already-required background checks.  I’m assuming Booker means person-to-person sales and other transactions that are already below the radar and difficult to regulate, but I’m willing to hear him out.

But here’s the question: would any of that have stopped the Newtown Shooting?  Aurora?  Tucson?  There may be room to argue that the restrictions on secondary markets need to be tightened to prevent guns from falling into the hands of criminals — but if it’s framed in the context of these events, then it is a false debate.


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It really should be too obvious to state that nobody has anything to fear from law-abiding citizens with guns, given that it’s against the law to shoot people with them. except in self-defense, but hey, I’ll take it!

Progressive Heretic on December 24, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Today we get to watch them try to make him walk it back.

shaloma on December 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM

This is the second time that Booker’s gone off script.

NoVAHockey on December 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Wow, who would have seen that coming from a Dem. I bet he gets taken off a lot of party invites for stating that opinion on TV. What he is saying is not the party line. Sounds like someone thinking of running for higher office and doesn’t want to tick off half the electorate or something …..

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 10:41 AM

can’t stand this fake goodwill do-gooding fake clown. i get some cold comfort from the fact that he’ll wipe christies fat butt all over the stinky state of new jersey.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Dear Cory Booker,

If guns are outlawed, then no one would be a law-abiding gun owner! Don’t you see that?!?!? This is our utopia!

Sincerely,

The Left

SouthernGent on December 24, 2012 at 10:43 AM

can’t stand this fake goodwill do-gooding fake clown. i get some cold comfort from the fact that he’ll wipe christies fat butt all over the stinky state of new jersey.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:42 AM

So you don’t mind him pandering to the right as long as he gets elected, right. Hypocrite.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 10:44 AM

So booker, Senate wannabe, is for stronger I.D. on gun buyers.Makes sense.
I wonder if he is for stronger ID on illeagals as well and strong verification of union thugs I.D. bussed in from all over the Northeast that vote 20 times.Can hardly wait for that answer.

rodguy911 on December 24, 2012 at 10:44 AM

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 10:44 AM

you must be under the false impression that christies a republican. he’s merely a bottle of coppertone away from charlie crist.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM

This is probably a reaction to WalMart “selling-out” it’s entire stock of semi-auto rifles, and .223 ammo, in the past week.

listens2glenn on December 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Today we get to watch them try to make him walk it back.

shaloma on December 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM

This.

Mr. Arrogant on December 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM

can’t stand this fake goodwill do-gooding fake clown. i get some cold comfort from the fact that he’ll wipe christies fat butt all over the stinky state of new jersey.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Booker isn’t planning to run for governor against Christie in 2013. He’s planning to run for Senate in 2014.

J.S.K. on December 24, 2012 at 10:48 AM

J.S.K. on December 24, 2012 at 10:48 AM

last i heard it was president.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Trust but Verify.

Well done is better than well said. B. Franklin.

All Booker has proven so far is he can talk the talk.

Question is, will he walk the walk?

And seeing as how he’s a politician…….yeah. whatever.

I did my part, love my new AR-15. Last one in the store and had three people offer me between $500 and a $1000 more than I’d just paid for it.

RealMc on December 24, 2012 at 10:51 AM

you must be under the false impression that christies a republican. he’s merely a bottle of coppertone away from charlie crist.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Wow, where did I say anything about Christie? I was talking about Booker pandering to get votes for his Senate run, and you being cool with it as long as it gets him elected. Reading comprehension this morning, get some coffee and try again.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Controls in “secondary markets” are a fair topic for debate, but sales at gun shows and by mail-order have to abide by the same laws as dealers for background checks;

Some clarification here. All sales at gun shows do not have to have a background check. Only sales made by dealers are required to go through the background check process. Sales between individuals don’t. Not sure how it is in other states but here in the Old Dominion if I want to sell one of my guns the only thing required is a buyer. No paperwork required. You cannot sell a firearm to anyone that you know is ineligible to legally buy one. Key word is know. It is recommended that you keep a detailed record of the transaction but it is not required.

Oldnuke on December 24, 2012 at 10:52 AM

When Cory Booker takes a principled stand and STICKS TO IT

… including demanding incessantly that the SCOAMF administration be held accountable in the courts for Operation Fast & Furious including the deaths of American and Mexican citizens

THEN he can come back and talk about gun control.

Until then … he is just another liberal hypocrite.

PolAgnostic on December 24, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Yet another invocation of the mythical Gun Show Loophole, but at least they’re getting more honest about it and going after private parties directly instead of saying it’s a “loophole.”

Ed, if you haven’t heard gun owners having an issue with background checks, respectfully you haven’t been looking for them. Gun owners have a *big* concern with having to ask government permission for buying/selling a legal product. Having to do so, with no possibility of an opt out, obviates the very concept of having a “right” to begin with.

Outlawing private sales has been one of the overriding goals of the gun control lobby for many years now. Don’t let them use dead children to push something that wouldn’t have stopped Sandy Hook in the first place.

Background checks don’t catch people who steal their guns, as Lanza did. What they DO do is inconvenience the law abiding and, frankly, set the stage for a much more comprehensive national registry. What, you think Holder’s DOJ is *really* throwing away those NICS check records?

JohnTant on December 24, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Lanza’s mother bought her guns from a licensed dealer. Imposing a background check requirement on private sales would not have changed anything.

Imposing background checks requirements has a couple of problems. In practical terms, it is unenforceable. Unless the government already has records of a gun’s sale, there is no way for the government to know a gun even exists, let alone that it has been transferred.

Requiring background checks on private sales is the first step to national gun registration. The BATFE and the FBI, already keeping millions of Form 4473 records required buy law to be destroyed, will begin building a database of all the firearms in the country. A few years down the road, another “reasonable restriction’ will make a particular firearm illegal to own. This first one will be narrowly crafted to isolate the small number of owners and intimidate them into turning in their guns. If they succeed, the next “reasonable restriction” will be far wider in scope.

Ain’t gonna happen, not now, not ever. Many if not most simply will not comply.

novaculus on December 24, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Merry Christmas and God rest ye.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM

SWalker? Is that you, you fuzzy Conservative hipster?

:-)

Merry Christmas right back to you.

hawkdriver on December 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

What they DO do is inconvenience the law abiding and, frankly, set the stage for a much more comprehensive national registry. What, you think Holder’s DOJ is *really* throwing away those NICS check records?

JohnTant on December 24, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Background checks do not “inconvenience the law abiding” they violate the 2nd amendment, they condition people to accept the basic premiss that firearms ownership is a grant of privilege given to them by the state.

For those that do not understand the distinction, a privilege is something that can be revoked, a right is something that cannot be revoked.

The 2nd Amendment:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

infringed

in·fringe
[in-frinj] Show IPA verb, in·fringed, in·fring·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.
verb (used without object)
2.
to encroach or trespass (usually followed by on or upon ): Don’t infringe on his privacy.
Origin:
1525–35; < Latin infringere to break, weaken, equivalent to in- in-2 + -fringere, combining form of frangere to break

The Constitution of the United States of America makes it indisputably clear that any and all firearms regulations are a direct violation of the 2nd amendment to the Constitution and therefore Unconstitutional.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Merry Christmas and God rest ye.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM

SWalker? Is that you, you fuzzy Conservative hipster?

:-)

Merry Christmas right back to you.

hawkdriver on December 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Yup, it would be little ole me all right, and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well… ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Merry Christmas and God rest ye.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Nicely done sir, Merry Christmas to you and yours. I thought I was listening to Gary Hoey for a second, that’s a compliment.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Ed, if you haven’t heard gun owners having an issue with background checks, respectfully you haven’t been looking for them. Gun owners have a *big* concern with having to ask government permission for buying/selling a legal product. Having to do so, with no possibility of an opt out, obviates the very concept of having a “right” to begin with.

Spot on… it is not a right when the government issues a license and background check- it becomes a privilege. It erodes the Second Amendment to the level of driving an automobile. Would any of us put up with a license issued by the government to express our ideas freely and openly, or to worship, or to have due process?

OliverB on December 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Merry Christmas and God rest ye.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Nicely done sir, Merry Christmas to you and yours. I thought I was listening to Gary Hoey for a second, that’s a compliment.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Why thank you sir, compliment accepted. ;) (I’ve been doing that guitar playing thing for a couple (read 30+ years here) of years now, and find it an exceptional way of relaxing) ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:21 AM

We are starting to see the gun grabbers retracting their fangs. If liberal politicians, even moderate ones were to have their way they would ban firearms in a flash. The only thing preventing them is the knowledge that their vote for gun control would be among their last as a politician.

Gun control is not mentioned publicly in Washington State by politicians, although many gun proponents believe it is whispered in the liberal circles. Washington politicians are extremely aware that supporting gun control is the fast track to retirement.

Adam Lanza did not buy the guns he used, he stole them from his mother, and murdered her with them. He was not just some awkward outcast, he was mentally ill. His illness was known. All of the laws in Vermont did not prevent him from his atrocity.

James Eagan Holmes was a known threat, yet no agency took steps to prevent his actions.

The only way to protect yourself is to arm yourself.

Rode Werk on December 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:21 AM

A Merry Christmas to you as well, kind sir!

annoyinglittletwerp on December 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Why thank you sir, compliment accepted. ;) (I’ve been doing that guitar playing thing for a couple (read 30+ years here) of years now, and find it an exceptional way of relaxing) ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:21 AM

So I’ve read. I’m still trying to figure out what band you were in though. I’m a classic rock fan from way back. Even my youngest has mostly classic rock on her ipod and has turned many of her friends into fans. The first day of school she wore a BOC shirt and the only one who knew who they were was her social studies teach.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

I just read the following over at Twitchy, on a similar thread if you will.

It surely is true that most mentally ill people are not violent, but it seems equally clear that most mass shooters have serious mental health problems — and in many cases those problems were evident before the shooting occurred.

Consider the following list of infamous gunmen:
•Newtown, Conn., shooter Adam Lanza
•Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-Hui
•Aurora, Colo., shooter James Holmes
•Tuscon, Ariz., shooter Jared Loughner
•Columbine High School shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

It is very likely that all six of these gunmen were all — wait for it — mentally ill.
•At the time of the Newtown, Conn., shooting, Lanza’s mother reportedly was on the verge on committing her troubled son to a mental health hospital.
•Prior to his shooting at Virginia Tech, Seung-Hui was declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice.
•Holmes sought help from three mental health experts prior to his deadly shooting in Aurora, Colo. His lawyers claim he has an unspecified mental illness.
•Loughner has schizophrenia.
•Eric Harris was seeing a psychiatrist and was prescribed antidepressants. An analysis of Klebold’s diaries indicated that he was “suicidally depressed.”

We know, we know. You’re as shocked as we are.

This is the issue that needs to be dealt with, mentally ill people with access to weapons.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 11:31 AM

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The War Planner on December 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Get a load of this crap: Intimidation: NY Newspaper Publishes Names, Addresses of Gun Permit Holders

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

That is not intimidation, that is incitement to commit a felony criminal act.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I’m still trying to figure out what band you were in though.

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Wink wink, only my ASCAP rep knows for sure (anymore) o_O

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Get a load of this crap: Intimidation: NY Newspaper Publishes Names, Addresses of Gun Permit Holders

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

If I were a criminal, I know who I would be going after…and that would be anyone not on the newspaper list.

Criminals to NY Newspaper: Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks a million!

Resist We Much on December 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

If I were a criminal, I know who I would be going after…and that would be anyone NOT on the newspaper list.

Criminals to NY newspaper: Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks a million!

Resist We Much on December 24, 2012 at 11:42 AM

I went through that for my carry permit, which in this state allows me to buy a firearm over the counter from a licensed dealer.

lol…what on earth will you do when your establishment-Repub-masters join the chorus on gun control?

(I’m betting you trade that piece for a boquet of nice flowers).

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM

D-fusit on December 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM
Why thank you sir, compliment accepted. ;) (I’ve been doing that guitar playing thing for a couple (read 30+ years here) of years now, and find it an exceptional way of relaxing) ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Oh, me too. But you’re actually good. I would never play for anyone but with close friends. Recently visiting a workmate to assess some work in his yard, he brought out a beautiful Gibson over coffee. (Almost afraid to hold it.) I started with “a Led Zeppelen classic” and he immediately pointed his finger at me and shrieked, “NO STAIRWAY, DENIED”. Took me a minute.

:-)

hawkdriver on December 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Resist We Much on December 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I could have gone the rest of my life without seeing that.

Merry Christmas. I think.

novaculus on December 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Get a load of this crap: Intimidation: NY Newspaper Publishes Names, Addresses of Gun Permit Holders

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Hey…Free Advertising!

Lambs blood on the door….so to speak.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 11:46 AM

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

That is not intimidation, that is incitement to commit a felony criminal act.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I dunno’. Who will use this information?

-Criminals – they want to know who to stay away from.

-leftist idiots – will they shun, or boycott, permit holders?
If that is the case, better to draw the line and pick sides now.

I case any of y’all are interested:
I have a permit.
I know how to shoot
I carry
I have used a personal protection firearm for its intended purpose
I didn’t miss
I will not miss next time
Be aware in Dallas

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Wonder how long it will take for the next Booker “hostage video” to be uploaded?

right of the dial on December 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM

I could have gone the rest of my life without seeing that.

Merry Christmas. I think.

novaculus on December 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

I’m snickering, but sorry.

Merry Christmas!

Resist We Much on December 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Ed said:

I haven’t ever heard any gun-rights organization oppose background checks, although they have grumbled about waiting periods.

Detroit — The Michigan Senate on Wednesday rejected a National Rifle Association-backed proposal to let people buy handguns through private sales without undergoing criminal background checks.

The Senate instead voted 27-11 for a substitute proposal that makes it easier for people to apply for gun permits but retains the checks.

The state House voted in June for a bill to repeal the requirement to undergo a check before buying a handgun.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121213/POLITICS02/212130430

Jon0815 on December 24, 2012 at 11:51 AM

That is not intimidation, that is incitement to commit a felony criminal act.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I dunno’. Who will use this information?

-Criminals – they want to know who to stay away from.

-leftist idiots – will they shun, or boycott, permit holders?
If that is the case, better to draw the line and pick sides now.

I case any of y’all are interested:
I have a permit.
I know how to shoot
I carry
I have used a personal protection firearm for its intended purpose
I didn’t miss
I will not miss next time
Be aware in Dallas

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

The same thing was done in Washington DC Mordor on the Potomac, the result was a rash of burglaries where the only thing stolen was… the registered guns.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Why thank you sir, compliment accepted. ;) (I’ve been doing that guitar playing thing for a couple (read 30+ years here) of years now, and find it an exceptional way of relaxing) ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:21 AM

And you do it well. That was really cool!

VegasRick on December 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:21 AM

And you do it well. That was really cool!

VegasRick on December 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Thank you sir, and a Merry Christmas to you and your as well… ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Hot Air and other rational forums have already address the ‘true debate’: the mentally deranged are disproportionately mass murderers in this country, so how do alter the tangle of laws which prevents society from effectively treating them, yet balance their civil rights with public safety?

The ‘unrational forums’ simply launch into spittle flecked tirades about ‘confiscate guns.’

locomotivebreath1901 on December 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

you must be under the false impression that christies a republican. he’s merely a bottle of coppertone away from charlie crist.

renalin on December 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM

…he doesn’t need the coppertone…he’s already the size of 3 Charlie Crist’s !

KOOLAID2 on December 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Anybody who owns firearms without a secure place to keep them is an idiot. Though I think anybody who lives in DC is an idiot.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Merry Christmas Everybody!

gophergirl on December 24, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Anybody who owns firearms without a secure place to keep them is an idiot. Though I think anybody who lives in DC is an idiot.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Indeed.

Good luck trying to unbolt a gun safe, humping it downstairs, and getting it into a truck without my neighbors noticing.

It would take a minimum of 3 people.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Anybody who owns firearms without a secure place to keep them is an idiot. Though I think anybody who lives in DC is an idiot.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM

How secure is secure? How big does a gun safe have to be before it can’t be stolen? If you can put it in, somebody else can take it back out.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Get a load of this crap: Intimidation: NY Newspaper Publishes Names, Addresses of Gun Permit Holders

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Be interesting to see a newspaper publish the names and addresses of all the people in an area on unemployment, food stamps and other forms of government assistance.

Hey, it is a matter of public record you know!

Or would that be just an outlandish, flagrant abuse of Citizens’ right to privacy, just so way over the top to see how taxpayer moneys are spent? I could just see even these Conservative Golden Boys in the GOP having a cow over a newspaper doing this. Oh the humanities!!!

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Pic of the Day: Christmas Comrades in Arms

Resist We Much on December 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM

…one with JugEars and Harry Reid would have made a great Christmas card… to send out to every American…

KOOLAID2 on December 24, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Get a load of this crap: Intimidation: NY Newspaper Publishes Names, Addresses of Gun Permit Holders

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

How about this?

“Gun permit holders publish names and addresses of Media members who have no weapons in their home.”

justltl on December 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Thank you sir, and a Merry Christmas to you and your as well… ;)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Merry Christmas to all!

VegasRick on December 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM

If you can put it in, somebody else can take it back out.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

If you do it right, secured to the studs and floor, filled with extra weight. And placed in a hard to get to location the safe will be safe.

Over 90% of burglars are dope addled morons who won’t find it, most of the rest won’t waste the time, and those that do, risk a larger chance of getting caught. A secure gun safe includes an alarm.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Anybody who owns firearms without a secure place to keep them is an idiot. Though I think anybody who lives in DC is an idiot.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Indeed.

Good luck trying to unbolt a gun safe, humping it downstairs, and getting it into a truck without my neighbors noticing.

It would take a minimum of 3 people.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

If you have children at home or grandchildren that come by frequently than a gun safe is pretty much mandatory.

However, having at one time lived in a part of San Diego California that was essentially a live fire combat zone, I can tell you with absolutely certainty that the old adage about “when seconds count, the police are only minuets away” also applied to any firearm you own that is locked in a gun safe.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

If politicians are so worried about person-to-person gun sales, why don’t they try making it easier to do a background check? Right now the only way to insure the person you’re selling to is legit is to go through a federally-licensed dealer who are the only ones who have access to the instant check system. They will charge you a fee for the paperwork, for storage, for overhead, etc. and add to the wait. In the age of Google, why do we need that?

Socratease on December 24, 2012 at 12:06 PM

However, having at one time lived in a part of San Diego California that was essentially a live fire combat zone…

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Oh, I’ll compare dangerous zones with you any day. Never had a safe successfully burglarized.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:07 PM

I can tell you with absolutely certainty that the old adage about “when seconds count, the police are only minuets away” also applied to any firearm you own that is locked in a gun safe.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

oh…I think I can guarentee that I’ll be armed with one in the chamber LONG BEFORE the police have a chance to repond.

lol…practice makes perfect.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

However, having at one time lived in a part of San Diego California that was essentially a live fire combat zone, I can tell you with absolutely certainty that the old adage about “when seconds count, the police are only minuets away” also applied to any firearm you own that is locked in a gun safe.

You still need a secure place to put them when you go out if you want them to still be there when you get back.

Socratease on December 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

If Booker runs against the Fatman, he has my financial support. If he runs for the senate, he does not. I can’t vote for him for governor because – thankfully – I don’t live in New Jersey.

bw222 on December 24, 2012 at 12:13 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

If you do it right, secured to the studs and floor, filled with extra weight. And placed in a hard to get to location the safe will be safe.

Over 90% of burglars are dope addled morons who won’t find it, most of the rest won’t waste the time, and those that do, risk a larger chance of getting caught. A secure gun safe includes an alarm.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

I only bring up that point because of personal experiences. Having at separate times been a co-owner in both a Construction company and a Demolitions company, I have both installed and removed multiple safes, gun and otherwise.

Contrary to what most people think, safes are pretty damned easy to find and once you have removed one safe, you pretty much know how to remove any safe. Anyone with half a clue can remove your safe in lass time than it took to have it installed.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM

lol…practice makes perfect.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Indeed and it also makes for diligence.

You still need a secure place to put them when you go out if you want them to still be there when you get back.

Socratease on December 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

A fact that I do not deny, however the diligence and self control required to to adopt and maintain a strict regiment of proper security protocol often results in otherwise responsible gun owners becoming complacent and their guns being locked in the safe when they are needed most.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Contrary to what most people think, safes are pretty damned easy to find and once you have removed one safe, you pretty much know how to remove any safe. Anyone with half a clue can remove your safe in lass time than it took to have it installed.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM

mine’s lagged to wall studs and floor joists. You’d have to open it to access the bolt-heads.

Better make sure you come “Armed” with a steel cutting-long reach blade and a sawzall….and bring a lunch – your going to be here for awhile.

oh….and bring at least 2 more friends if you intend to “carry” it down our stairs, out our door and into the street.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Merry Christmas Everybody!

gophergirl on December 24, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Merry Christmas as well, Gopher Girl and everyone else.

Off here to pick up my present to myself. A matching Taurus Judge like I bought for Mrs. Hawkdriver. (Not her real name)

Merry Christmas to everyone!

hawkdriver on December 24, 2012 at 12:24 PM

Anyone with half a clue can remove your safe in lass time than it took to have it installed.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Hmmmm….let me think here…Safe plus guns about 300 pounds…too far in to get a chain out to a vehicle, or even attach a come-a-long…back of small closet with no leverage…4 4″ lag screws into double studs…2 6″ concrete anchors into slab…active locking mechanism in safe…alarm company set to call me and two armed neighbors before the police. Total install time about four hours. Most of that was re-enforcing the wall behind the safe. The bedside safe may be easier, it only has four lag screws attaching it to single studs.

I have installed, removed, and cleaned up attempted break-in safes. This is one area where armor can defeat anti-armor without going to extremes.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM

You’ll notice that NONE of the elite intelligentsia of the press, nor the politicians are talking about revising the reporting requirements of mental health professionals regarding their patients who might pose an immediate threat to others.

Cho, Loughner and Holmes immediately jump to mind. All 3 LEGALLY purchased firearms. Despite coming within the purview of MH personnel.

GarandFan on December 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM

lol…if we ever decide to move…I’m leaving the safe. I was sore for a week after installing the damn thing….and my friends are now too smart to help me lug the thing out.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:36 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM

mine’s lagged to wall studs and floor joists. You’d have to open it to access the bolt-heads.

Better make sure you come “Armed” with a steel cutting-long reach blade and a sawzall….and bring a lunch – your going to be here for awhile.

oh….and bring at least 2 more friends if you intend to “carry” it down our stairs, out our door and into the street.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Nope, just requires a 19V Cordless Sawsall and a 5 ton hydraulic bottle jack and a come-along and a pallet dolly (all of which will fit in a small portable tool satchel {well except for the pallet dolly}), have it out in about 6 or 7 minuets. You are thinking like a home owner, screw cutting the lag bolts, cut the studs and joists.

You need to understand, unless you have a walk-in gun safe, your gun safe isn’t designed to keep criminals from stealing your guns or your gun safe, it’s designed to keep your children from accessing your guns when you aren’t around.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

I have installed, removed, and cleaned up attempted break-in safes. This is one area where armor can defeat anti-armor without going to extremes.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM

And I have removed somewhere around 100 safes, once you quit thinking like a home-owner they come out painfully easy.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:43 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Gonna have to repectfully disagree SW. You’d have to really want it bad to go to that kind of trouble…all for a couple of old shotguns and a couple of unremarkable pistols.

There are items worth considerably more around the house that are easy pickin’s….that’s what the scumbags want.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Get a load of this crap: Intimidation: NY Newspaper Publishes Names, Addresses of Gun Permit Holders

petefrt on December 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Most likely outcome is that the criminals will bypass their homes.

chemman on December 24, 2012 at 12:45 PM

lol…if we ever decide to move…I’m leaving the safe.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:36 PM

As I did with my last two safes. It is a feature to some buyers.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

This could be an interesting competition. I think I still have you beat, but wouldn’t want to repair the damage done. Even with the bottle jack, the flush mount to the floor is going to be tough to get around. The walls will go first.

What burglar is going to work that hard though?

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Well, you got about double my number. Though I don’t think like a homeowner when it comes to safes.

And it will be painful for all involved.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:48 PM

Backround checks would be fine if liberals didn’t use them overzealously to ban guns. I owned a business in NYC and applied for a permit after being held up in an armed robbery. After submitting mountains of paperwork I was audited by IRS then state and city. After they found nothing they audited my largest customers. I finally gave in and withdrew my application.

Dennis D on December 24, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Uh, how does a gun thief know that there are any guns in the safe? It could be empty, and is being used only as a “shiny object” while the guns are somewhere else.

I think a gun safe disguised as a hearth would likely never be found. Also, one that looks like a common appliance.

Out of the box, people. Think out of the box.

platypus on December 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Gonna have to repectfully disagree SW. You’d have to really want it bad to go to that kind of trouble…all for a couple of old shotguns and a couple of unremarkable pistols.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:43 PM

a) my whole point is, it’s not a lot of trouble
b) you would be surprised how many criminals know exactly how to steal a safe.

Your safe is only safe if, it’s literally to large to move, in other words, walk in sized, or nobody has any reason to suspect or believe you have one.

There are items worth considerably more around the house that are easy pickin’s….that’s what the scumbags want.

Actually, there was an article published recently that documented a newspaper in Mordor on the Potomac publishing the names and addresses of every individual issued a gun registration and the subsequent burglaries to their homes and the only things stolen… Yup, were the guns and the guns safes.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM

What burglar is going to work that hard though?

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Someone who came specifically for the guns. Remember, in the criminal world the very best gun to own, is one legally registered… To someone else… Your legally registered, perfect condition .380 or 9mm is worth more to a criminal then you likely paid for it.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM

lol….I surrender!

Remind me never to give you my address!

;-)

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Most likely outcome is that the criminals will bypass their homes.

chemman on December 24, 2012 at 12:45 PM

Wrong answer, most likely result is that their home will be burglarized at a time when nobody is home.

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

lol….I surrender!

Remind me never to give you my address!

;-)

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Don’t surrender. He’s avoiding my earlier comment. :)

platypus on December 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Out of the box, people. Think out of the box.

platypus on December 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Shush Now!

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

But you are assuming a smart burglar and him being able to work in a vacuum. I never said a safe was absolute. Most burglars are fools. You only have to make it fool proof.

A criminal wanting a properly secured firearm will be better off trying somewhere else, and they know this.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

“Listen to me, the people dying in Chicago, the people dying in Newark are not being done with law-abiding gun owners,” Booker continued.

 

F*ck you. Msybe if someone you loved was hurt by guns you’d be a bit more compassionate. Go f*ck yourself.
 
lostmotherland on December 14, 2012 at 2:30 PM

rogerb on December 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

rogerb on December 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Ouch, a very good one. You must save it for the next time that particular nutball starts spouting off.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:05 PM

The real killers are the psychiatrist who prescribe all of the psychotic drugs for sleeping, depression, ADD…… When the number one side effect is suicidal tendencies, maybe we need to rethink these more than guns.

Tater Salad on December 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

platypus on December 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

I could hide a single handgun where NO BURGLER would EVER find it.

My ten-year-old daughter, however, is a different story.

I’d be willing to bet she already knows what 80% of her Christmas presents are.

I’ll stick with a nice safe.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 1:11 PM

In other news, four volunteer firefightes were shot, two of them dead, while trying to put out a fire in upstate New York.

Obviously, the solution is to arm all firefighters. The only thing that can stop a firefighter-killer with a gun is a firefighter with a gun.

Time Lord on December 24, 2012 at 1:14 PM

I’ll stick with a nice safe.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Oh man, the places you can put those little safes…not that I ever have…

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Time Lord on December 24, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Maybe, I know a few and back in the volunteer firefighter days…

You left out context as well.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Oh man, the places you can put those little safes…not that I ever have…

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

I like those little guys – digital keypad – fast and easy to open, easy to lag in place. I keep one stashed for valuables.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 1:22 PM

But you are assuming a smart burglar and him being able to work in a vacuum. I never said a safe was absolute. Most burglars are fools. You only have to make it fool proof.

A criminal wanting a properly secured firearm will be better off trying somewhere else, and they know this.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Again, assuming that your local newspaper hasn’t published your name and address as a gun owner, than yea your premises hold a fair degree of water. As to good folks of Mordor on the Potomac have discover however, once it becomes public knowledge that you are a gun owner an entirely different class of criminal comes into the picture.

I’ll stick with a nice safe.

Tim_CA on December 24, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Oh man, the places you can put those little safes…not that I ever have…

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

ROTFLMAO… yup, I’ve removed more than a few of those, and some of them from very strange places (for the love of god, who puts a gun safe in a false toilet tank? lol ). False electric outlets, false circuit breaker boxes, I even removed one from a clock once. (it was a baby grandfather that was flush mounted to the wall above a fireplace mantle)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Obviously, the solution is to arm all firefighters. The only thing that can stop a firefighter-killer with a gun is a firefighter with a gun.

Time Lord on December 24, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Funny thing, I live in rural San Diego Country, and they do that here, who would have thunk it… o_O

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Dang you! Stop giving out ideas.

Seeing the kind of traffic this place gets, you ain’t just helpin’ good folks here.

cozmo on December 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Until then … he is just another liberal hypocrite.

PolAgnostic on December 24, 2012 at 10:58 AM

. . . running for office, pandering for votes.

davidk on December 24, 2012 at 1:43 PM

ROTFLMAO… yup, I’ve removed more than a few of those, and some of them from very strange places (for the love of god, who puts a gun safe in a false toilet tank? lol ). False electric outlets, false circuit breaker boxes, I even removed one from a clock once. (it was a baby grandfather that was flush mounted to the wall above a fireplace mantle)

SWalker on December 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

You a burglar?

davidk on December 24, 2012 at 1:46 PM

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