Uh oh: Maybe Boehner doesn’t have the votes for Plan B after all

posted at 5:11 pm on December 20, 2012 by Allahpundit

I know you guys are bored to tears with fiscal cliff stuff by now, but after weeks of wandering in the news desert, we’ll finally have some suspense tonight. Cantor was talking tough this morning about how they supposedly have the votes. According to The Hill’s whip count, though, there are already 23 Republican defections — and Boehner can only afford 24. They may be lowballing it, too. They’ve got two reps from South Carolina listed as no’s, but there may be more to come:

SC has seven House seats so if Berman’s right then Boehner’s already short on votes with more defections possible before tonight’s vote. (Erick Erickson’s own whip count, taken this morning, pegged the number of GOP no votes at 34.) Some of his opponents are so entrenched, in fact, that they’ve taken to going on MSNBC in order to … convince hardcore liberals that we need to dramatically slash spending, I guess? Anyway. What’s a Speaker whose credibility is on the line to do? Just what you’d expect:

They’re voting on this thing tonight instead of in the afternoon to give Boehner, Cantor, and McCarthy time to twist arms and make threats. What happens if it doesn’t work, though? Will they still hold the vote and risk humiliation, on the theory that even a no vote might put some pressure on Obama to up his offer on spending cuts in order to push more conservatives into the yes column on a grander compromise with the White House? Or will they yank the bill, which would arguably be even more embarrassing?

Ramesh Ponnuru lays out the argument for voting yes, even though he’s not a fan of Plan B in all its particulars:

If it works out, it will go something like this: House Republicans pass Plan B, showing that they are not protecting millionaires, are taking steps to protect the middle class, and have moved on from the extend-all-the-rates position they took during the summer. The onus will then (again, if things work out) be on Senate Democrats to budge too, perhaps by passing a bill that extends tax cuts for everyone making less than $500,000 and limits tax increases on dividends. At that point we would see what Reid could pass, there being some dissension in his own caucus.

Then the stage would be set for a final bill that extends all the tax cuts for everyone making less than, say, $750,000 a year. Some people are asking how a deal can pass the House with a threshold below $1 million if Boehner is having so much trouble getting Republican votes for a bill with that threshold. The hope has to be that a lot of House Democrats—who have not yet had a chance to vote for a bill that extends the middle-class tax cuts—would support a deal, and therefore Boehner wouldn’t have to round up as many conservative votes for it.

Right. If Plan B fails, there are two options left: Some sort of deal with Obama in which Democratic votes replace Republican defectors, or a Republican cave on tax rates under tremendous pressure after we go over the cliff. (If you think an Obama cave is more likely, explain to me why.) But if the bill does fail, why would Obama offer Boehner new concessions and rescue him from a major political embarrassment? A talking point about “obstructionist Republicans” obstructing their own Speaker will have fallen into his lap — and he’s going to give it away by upping his offer in order to strike a deal before New Year’s? Hmmmm.

T-minus three hours and counting. Here’s Boehner at today’s presser summing up the messaging value of Plan B in two blunt sentences. “I did my part. They’ve done nothing.”


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All I want for Christmas is a win for the GOP and for someone to wipe that smirky face off of Harry Reid and replace it with a crow.

scalleywag on December 20, 2012 at 5:16 PM

If plan B doesn’t pass, every “no” vote is basically saying “Yes Obama, take this win we’ve offered you and beat us with it in the midterms”. Seriously.

Zaggs on December 20, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Uh oh: Maybe Boehner doesn’t have the votes for Plan B after all

What sort of a brain-dead idiot makes a deal that he doesn’t know he has the votes for?

A Boner sort of brain-dead idiot. The sort of brain-dead idiot who made the “fiscal cliff” deal earlier this year and crowed about how great it was.

It’s long past time for Boner to be tossed out of the Speaker’s chair … physically.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:17 PM

Hey GOP, remember all those pointers about your “messaging”? Refusing to raise rates on actual millionaires would be one of those problems. Yes its not good policy, but what is worse policy is handing the house to the democrats!

Zaggs on December 20, 2012 at 5:17 PM

Boehner can take his PLAN B and stick it (***CENSORED*** In light of the Newtown CT. shooting this message is being ***CENSORED***)

Varchild on December 20, 2012 at 5:18 PM

Fire Boehner and…

Let. It. Burn.

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:19 PM

If plan B doesn’t pass, every “no” vote is basically saying “Yes Obama, take this win we’ve offered you and beat us with it in the midterms”. Seriously.

Zaggs on December 20, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Yup.

The failure of Plan B is basically the end of any negotiating power we have. Completely and totally.

I hope that Erickson and his best buds are cognizant of this.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Stupid Party once again proving it is Stupid

2010 proved beyond any doubt that Conservatism wins election.

But that has been forgotten now and the Stupid in the Party make one mistake after another.

Steveangell on December 20, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Yup.

The failure of Plan B is basically the end of any negotiating power we have. Completely and totally.

I hope that Erickson and his best buds are cognizant of this.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Fine by me. Politicians should be governing based on what’s best for the Nation, not what’s best for the political party anyhow.

Varchild on December 20, 2012 at 5:22 PM

If plan B doesn’t pass, every “no” vote is basically saying “Yes Obama, take this win we’ve offered you and beat us with it in the midterms”. Seriously.

Zaggs on December 20, 2012 at 5:16 PM

LOL. If you think that the GOP taking part in the left’s class war in the tax code is going to win the mid-terms, then you just aren’t too bright. Is Boner your uncle or cousin or something?

What did you say back when Boner first cut the “fiscal cliff” deal in order to raise the debt limit without any other constraints and to allow Barky and the left to continue on with their unbudgeted, insane, un-Constitutional spending? Did you like Boner’s deal back then, because that’s how we got here, you know.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:23 PM

“I did my part. They’ve done nothing.”

you offered a sham bill that never had a chance to pass and even your own party is refusing to vote for it. you also refused to consider several reasonable offers. why are you even there? what sorry sack of fail this guy is.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Ryan v Van Hollen on House Floor now.

Dems are pushing that we are giving millionnaires $50K in tax savings and putting tax increases on the little people.

We are taking food out of the mouths of children.

Trying to repeal Obamacare

Can’t forget the women healthcare issues

SS also being targeted.

But O’s plan is balanced. No cuts and ALL increased taxes on the evil rich.

CoffeeLover on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

What sort of a brain-dead idiot makes a deal that he doesn’t know he has the votes for?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:17 PM

Plan B is not a “deal,” dopey. It’s the last offer that has a chance to pass the House. It’s altogether clear that the Dems are going to let us twist in the wind over this, and the media’s acting like we’re the bad guys here, even with all the concessions we’ve made.

Get it through your skull – we lost the election and we lost it bad. It’s only by virtue of our huge victory in ’10 that Pelosi is still in the minority. It’s time for us to cut our losses. Plan B is execrable and is a slap in the face to our principles, but it’s a damn sight better than getting blamed for going over the cliff.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

I hope that Erickson and his best buds are cognizant of this.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:20 PM

LOL. You have to have a functioning brain first in order to be cognizant.

Mark1971 on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Let. It. Burn.

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:19 PM

says the expat from prague.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:25 PM

12/21/12…

Seven Percent Solution on December 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM

GOP meet SMOD.

Curtiss on December 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM

If plan B doesn’t pass, every “no” vote is basically saying “Yes Obama, take this win we’ve offered you and beat us with it in the midterms”. Seriously.

Zaggs on December 20, 2012 at 5:16 PM

What are you kidding? Plan B is a full-on confessional by Speaker BOHICA that the conservative principle of lower taxes = economic growth was a total lie. Plan B is Obama’s dream scenario. It will cause the conservative wing to be utterly obliterated within the Republican Party, if not resulting in a split party down the middle.

Make no mistake, passage of Plan B IS an offering to Obama so he can bludgeon us in the midterms with an Uzi, while all BOHICA has is a spit ball.

Myron Falwell on December 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM

Fine by me. Politicians should be governing based on what’s best for the Nation, not what’s best for the political party anyhow.

Varchild on December 20, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Explain to me, as well as you can, how going over the cliff is better for the nation than maintaining low tax rates for as many people as we can.

Because there’s nothing after Plan B. Nothing at all except the edge of the cliff.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Geez, it isn’t over yet, doomsayers! I’m still trying to figure out how this is a tax increase on the middle class? I must have missed something. Either that, or the Dems are mud slinging. Gee, I wonder which is is.

scalleywag on December 20, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Plan B is not a “deal,” dopey. It’s the last offer that has a chance to pass the House.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Oy. Deal … offer … if Boner is negotiating outside of his authorization then it’s the same stupidity. But, it’s interesting to see that you think a negotiator is doing just fine if he’s negotiating for others and has no clue nor care what the limits of the people he’s negotiating for are.

This is how we got to this point, to begin with.

Did you love the DEAL that Boner made to originally get us to this “fiscal cliff”? Did you think he was an ace negotiator back earlier in the year when he made that stupid deal in order to raise the debt limit and allow the spending to continue without any impediments? I bet you did. You probably harangued any House members who voted against that idiotic deal and now you’re saying that they’re forced to vote for the new idiotic deal. Great stuff, there. Really. Just great.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:28 PM

L.I.B.

“Let It Burn”

– and –

“Let’s Institutionalize Boehner”

ShainS on December 20, 2012 at 5:28 PM

They blamed Rove and Krauthammer for their own Christine O’Donnell debacle. Who will they blame for their fiscal cliff debacle?

Mark1971 on December 20, 2012 at 5:30 PM

Make no mistake, passage of Plan B IS an offering to Obama so he can bludgeon us in the midterms with an Uzi, while all BOHICA has is a spit ball.

Myron Falwell on December 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM

Yep. The Dog-Eater has already started with his asinine statments that “the GOP has conceded that taxes on the millionaires and billionaires have to go up” … and the sad part is that he’s not lying, for the first time in his miserable, pathetic life.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:30 PM

Where’s Chuck Barris when you need him?

kim roy on December 20, 2012 at 5:30 PM

I’m fine with cliff diving. Who cares if the Democrats blame us for our bipartisanship, since we can point to their votes that passed the original bill right alongside GOP votes.

At least that particular bill was a (fabled) bipartisan deal (all the lefties love those, right?) and had some spending reductions. Quibbles with the tax increases or the particulars of the spending reductions can be fought over as new bills in the next Congress.

Let it burn.

MTF on December 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

says the expat from prague.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:25 PM

I am a U.S. citizen since 2004, is my voice not welcome in your tiny little brain?

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

I can not believe that the Heritage Foundation and Howard Dean are on the same side, but apparently they are…they both want to go over that cliff.

I can not believe conservatives are that stupid. I have always considered myself a conservative, but the idea that they would go out of their way to help Obama raise taxes on virtually everyone…and then claim that they had no choice because there was a tax increase on millionaires in this bill is just absurd…not to mention hypocritical and ridiculous.

If people like Erik Erikson want to call all the shots, they need to win some elections…otherwise all they are doing is aiding Obama and the Democrats.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:34 PM

I emailed my congressman last night and told him to vote no, or he couldn’t count on my vote in 2014. Principles matter. No tax hikes. Period. I’m done with supporting the best we can get. The media is swinging away at the Republicans telling them to compromise blah blah blah. If they do, the media will turn around and stab the Republicans in the back in 2014 saying “you broke your pledge” etc.

Othniel on December 20, 2012 at 5:36 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:28 PM

Don’t look at me. I didn’t ask for our Senate takeover chances to be futzed up by crappy TrueCon candidates for two consecutive election cycles.

I don’t think you understand that it’s the Dems who will always be negotiating from a position of strength when it comes to spending. Until the very day this country goes bankrupt, they’ll be able to move the line higher and higher, promise goodies to more and more people, and allow tax rates to keep increasing and increasing.

A failure of negotiations is a win for the Democrats. We can only win by having enough power to change the terms. As we don’t have that power, and will not have that power for another two years (probably more, if the usual cohort gets their pick of nominees again), our backs are against a wall.

I’m getting downright sick of people like you who think that John Boehner has all the power in the world, and he’s choosing not to exercise it because he wants to screw the conservatives and bow to his establishment masters. Let me ask you something – how many “GOP establishment country-club” millionaires are more than a little put off by the fact that Boehner had to concede their tax rates?

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:36 PM

Terrye,
the odd thing is that the people saying go over the cliff from the right, don’t grasp we likely won’t go over, instead we will end up give Obama a huge win and vote for whatever plan HE WANTS INSTEAD.

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:37 PM

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:34 PM

If taxes are going up on anyone then they should go up on everyone. Anything that moves the tax structure AWAY from flatness (which is the only fair sort of incopme tax schedule) is an advance of class warfare, which is more dangerous than anything.

Some of you people haven’t figured out that Barky and the dems don’t negotiate in good faith. They are like arabs. You can’t trust a word they say. They never honor a deal they sign. They lie like banshees to your face.

And you think giving them ‘a little bit more’ is some sort of answer? No. It doesn’t work with arabs and it doesn’t work with Dog-Eating Indonesians or leftists. You have to recognize that they always deal in bad faith and always lie. You have to stick to your own principles in such a situation as there is never enough you can give them that will stop their drive or cause them to stop lying about what you do.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Yep. The Dog-Eater has already started with his asinine statments that “the GOP has conceded that taxes on the millionaires and billionaires have to go up” … and the sad part is that he’s not lying, for the first time in his miserable, pathetic life.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:30 PM

Wouldn’t it be even better for Obama if the conservative wing actually rose up and throws out Speaker BOCHICA over this whole mess (provided that Plan B does fail)? He then can say to the effect of, “even the do-nothing’s in the House GOP rejected the ‘truthful message’ from BOHICA that we must raise taxes on the Eeeeeeeeeevil Rich and threw him out,” effectively making BOHICA a martyr for the Socialist cause in order to further punish conservatives…

May be far fetched, but sometimes, in order to prepare for what Socialists want to do next, we must utterly divorce ourselves from all reality, logic and reason.

Myron Falwell on December 20, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Myron Falwell,
So what is your plan?

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:39 PM

I am a U.S. citizen since 2004, is my voice not welcome in your tiny little brain?

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

it’s easy to say ‘let it burn’ when you’re not actually here.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:39 PM

I’m fine with cliff diving. Who cares if the Democrats blame us for our bipartisanship, since we can point to their votes that passed the original bill right alongside GOP votes.

At least that particular bill was a (fabled) bipartisan deal (all the lefties love those, right?) and had some spending reductions. Quibbles with the tax increases or the particulars of the spending reductions can be fought over as new bills in the next Congress.

Let it burn.

MTF on December 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

So, all that stuff about the evils of tax increases is just propaganda? What will happen is that Obama will claim the Republicans made it happen…the right will bray sanctimoniously about the glories of going over the cliff and the public will vote for more Democrats.

Right now a solid majority of rank and file Republicans want to see some kind of deal. Boehner has to look as if he is at least trying. I know that I have lost a lot of respect for some people who seem to think this is all just a game. And a lot of the people doing the most yelling on the right are the same people who costs the GOP seats by pushing people like Mourdock and Angle and O’Donnell and Buck just to mention a few. They do not care about governing, they just want to make a point. Screw the people.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:40 PM

Terrye,
the odd thing is that the people saying go over the cliff from the right, don’t grasp we likely won’t go over, instead we will end up give Obama a huge win and vote for whatever plan HE WANTS INSTEAD.

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:37 PM

That’s such a load of crap.

There is no way in hell that the Republicans will just blank-slate endorse a full Obama plan. If something like that ever comes to the floor, the Democrats will not have the votes to pass it on their own.

If we can’t make a deal, we’ll go over the cliff. And we’ll get blamed for it. And our only prayer is that the short memories of voters run out by the time 2014 rolls around.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:41 PM

KingGold: Let them win.

Let it burn.

Boehner could, in all honesty, prevent us from spending beyond our means. At least by the Constitution. I doubt Obama would abide by it, and I doubt anyone would call him on it, so yeah.

It doesn’t matter what we do.

Pass, don’t pass, over the cliff, not over the cliff… none of it matters.

Until the electorate comes to grips with what is required to fix this country’s fiscal policy, none of this matters.

Scott H on December 20, 2012 at 5:41 PM

Who would take Boehner’s place and how would they be able to get a better deal? My guess is that every congressman whining about this would never pursue the opportunity to take the gavel because they know they couldn’t do better. It’s much easier to sit there and b!tch and moan.

Mark1971 on December 20, 2012 at 5:41 PM

If the American people want the spending, the American people get the taxes. Go over the cliff.

EddieC on December 20, 2012 at 5:42 PM

After many hours of thought on all this, I have decided it is time to allow 0 and the Dims raise taxes. On everyone. It’s what they are after obviously. Let them explain to middle income folks why the taxes have gone up on them. I see no other feasible way to proceed. Shame really, the leadership in this country is virtually non existent.

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Well it seems our old harpy here in TX is at again? I thought bho was about as repulsive as could be brining up those killed by the murderer to get funds, but this one is going for a tie?

I do apologize to the US for this old harpy, she is horrible. See what she brings up to get boehner and r’s to vote for?

http://nation.foxnews.com/rep-sheila-jackson-lee/2012/12/20/rep-uses-newtown-babies-attack-food-stamp-cuts
L

letget on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

friendly question: where are you from?

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

It doesn’t take a Mayan astrologer to see where this is headed.

Lily on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

And a lot of the people doing the most yelling on the right are the same people who costs the GOP seats by pushing people like…

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:40 PM

Mitt Romney?

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

you offered a sham bill that never had a chance to pass and even your own party is refusing to vote for it. you also refused to consider several reasonable offers. why are you even there? what sorry sack of fail this guy is.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Obama’s offers couldn’t even pass the Senate, which is why Reid refused to take them up. I think you don’t understanding how our government works to have a fiscal cliff discussion, IMHO.

Chuck Schick on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

If the GOP is bludgeoned over this, then I say it’s the perfect time to band together only conservatives. Keep the RINOs away. Midterms will be a bloodbath, but I believe a conservative party is our only hope. My opinion. It’s evolving in ways I would never have imagined possible only a couple years ago.

freedomfirst on December 20, 2012 at 5:44 PM

understanding –> understand

Chuck Schick on December 20, 2012 at 5:44 PM

KingGold,
no it isn’t, the GOP will splinter in the house and and a deal will be made, or we pass this, hold the line and if have to go over the fiscal cliff let every GOP house member have some political cover for the 2014 mid-term. BY the way, if we are going over the cliff, what the problem with a tactical vote to help out for the elections?

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Mitt Romney?

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Who outperformed nearly all statewide candidates in November?

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Who would take Boehner’s place and how would they be able to get a better deal? My guess is that every congressman whining about this would never pursue the opportunity to take the gavel because they know they couldn’t do better. It’s much easier to sit there and b!tch and moan.

Mark1971 on December 20, 2012 at 5:41 PM

They do not want to take his place…they just want to piss and moan and whine and complain. None of them could get a deal.

If the American people want the spending, the American people get the taxes. Go over the cliff.

EddieC on December 20, 2012 at 5:42 PM

This is what I do not understand…on one hand we hear some conservatives yelling and screaming about tax increases and then they turn right around and act as if tax increases are fine and dandy…They are not being anymore consistent than the American people themselves…they are acting like hypocrites.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Wouldn’t it be even better for Obama if the conservative wing actually rose up and throws out Speaker BOCHICA over this whole mess (provided that Plan B does fail)?

Myron Falwell on December 20, 2012 at 5:38 PM

I don’t think so. If the GOP wants to have any chance of getting back to the 2010 mid-term sorts of results – to have conservatives not abandon them in droves, then they have to do something serious about the idiot Boner and not care what Barky says. Barky’s always going to be lying about all sorts of stuff. So long as the GOP isn’t allying with him it doesn’t really matter but the GOP sh!tting all over conservatives will kill them, no matter what Barky says or does.

This is 2006/2008 all over again except that back then the GOP committed suicide with their insane, leftist push for amnesty. Now they’re pulling the same sh!t with not holding the purse strings – as is their responsibility – and allowing the Indonesian and his lunatic dems to continue their un-Constitutional budgetless spending without constraint, along with allying with the left on the class war in the tax code.

I’m done with the GOP, myself. I had decided that unless something drastic changed, 2012 was it for me. I’m waiting for the right time to change my voter registration so that it will have some impact on the idiots (minimal as it is). Last time, people started changing in droves as the GOP pushed amensty over and over and over, and then the GOP got pummelled in the elections and made a total pariah of itself.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 5:46 PM

They do not want to take his place…they just want to piss and moan and whine and complain. None of them could get a deal.

Perfectly happy to hop on DNCTV and whine about Boehner, though.

They’re always happy to have guests on who bash Republicans. They make common cause with them, and all that.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:47 PM

Mitt Romney?

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Who outperformed nearly all statewide candidates in November?

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Here in Indiana Mitt Romney outperformed both Mourdock and Pence…at least Pence won but by a much smaller margin than Romney, and that is Indiana, not Mass or Conn or NY.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:47 PM

0 has absolutely no intention of cutting spending. He wishes to continue to expand gov. He is the worst President of this country in history. A stain on our once great Nation.

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 5:47 PM

This is horrible strategy on display. The only way to win this game is not to play. The Obama economy is going down, cliff or no cliff. Obamacare is just the beginning. By playing along at all, they are volunteering to be scapegoats once it fails. Once it fails, Obama will just say, “I wanted more revenue, but those darn Republicans were too busy protecting their rich masters.” The media will parrot, and there’s your newest scapegoat.

Vote ‘Present’ on whatever bill the Democrats send down. It’s the only way. Plus it punishes the electorate for their inherent stupidity.

Hannibal on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

Kingsgold,
its possible one of us misunderstood the other.

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

friendly question: where are you from?

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Nothing from a liberal is friendly. Hey, maybe you could get a law passed and force him to answer … that is the liberal way, to force people against their will.

darwin on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

Who outperformed nearly all statewide candidates in November?

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Did he outperform Obama?

He barely managed to to squeak past John Mcain levels of incompetence and that from a larger voting pool.

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

sharrukin ,
in all fairness, Obama dropped off as well.

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

Reading the comments on this thread makes me wish for the Mayan Apocalypse.

No wonder we lost the election. People who think that proposing a tax increase on .5% (while extending the current rates for 99.5%) will be more damaging to conservative than being blamed for going over the fiscal cliff and having tax rates go up for everyone is not living in the real world.

Conservatives should be shouting about the fact that Obama wants to block a tax hike on millionaires.

Conservatives should be shouting that Obama wants to veto a tax cut on the middle class.

But no, some would rather bash Boehner at the top of their lungs, while shooting themselves in the other foot for good measure. RB over at The Right Sphere is the only one making any sense about this.

For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts on the subject.

right of the dial on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

I personally hope he doesn’t have the votes and the caucus votes him out as Speaker and they elect one who understands his position in the whole scheme of things. Obama has no respect for Boehner, no respect for Republicans and, with the press behind him, feels if he holds out Republicans will cave under all the pressure. A smart Speaker would recognize the power of the purse he has and also recognize the complete lack of respect he’s receiving.

This is not the time to worry about the polls, the press, or the pundits, it’s time to worry about what’s best for the country and not dealing with spending is not in the best interest of the country.

If Boehner had a set of core beliefs he would do the right thing and, I believe, would see the polls on the House turn around to a more positive number. If he’s perceived as doing the right thing, in lieu of the politically correct thing, he’ll be on the way to changing the way business is done in D.C.

bflat879 on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Will that make Boehner cry? If yes I’d say – defeat the bill.

antisocial on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

I

f the GOP is bludgeoned over this, then I say it’s the perfect time to band together only conservatives. Keep the RINOs away. Midterms will be a bloodbath, but I believe a conservative party is our only hope. My opinion. It’s evolving in ways I would never have imagined possible only a couple years ago.

freedomfirst on December 20, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Oh puhleaze. Fine…do not let the door hit you on the way out…you can get DeMint to come back into politics and lead you and you can put people like Mourdock and Akin and Angle back on the ticket. Just have at it.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Obama’s offers couldn’t even pass the Senate, which is why Reid refused to take them up. I think you don’t [understand] how our government works to have a fiscal cliff discussion, IMHO.

Chuck Schick on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

the public is with teh o.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:47 PM

That’s correct. Objective analysis, hashed out many times already, showed that only two of our statewide candidates managed to overperform Romney’s percentages: Linda McMahon and Scott Brown.

In other words, it wasn’t Romney who dragged us down in November. So anyone who thinks that, given the availability of the information, is not only wrong but deliberately and knowingly wrong.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:51 PM

They blamed Rove and Krauthammer for their own Christine O’Donnell debacle. Who will they blame for their fiscal cliff debacle?

Mark1971 on December 20, 2012 at 5:30 PM

Who exactly is “they”?

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 5:52 PM

I am a U.S. citizen since 2004, is my voice not welcome in your tiny little brain?

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

.
The troll lacks two things you have:

Critical thinking skills – long term this absence should prove Darwinian in nature. You proved yours by immigrating to better opportunities.

Cojones – trolls on here are the incarnation of Ken dolls. “No guns! No self reliance! Let me suck forever on the government teat!”

Trolls express their envy by bleating liberal talking points.

Let.It.Burn.

… and throw Boehner on the figurative fire.

PolAgnostic on December 20, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Mitt Romney?

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Folks are still rationalizing his epic fail. The R’s are becoming Whigs at a alarming rate. I have little to no confidence that the R’s have our back anymore. I supported Romney to rid the land of 0. Not because I supported Romney. That kind of support has never worked we’ll for candidates. Romney had his good moments, he fell short. This electorate is the stupidest group I have ever seen.

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 5:53 PM

If plan B doesn’t pass, every “no” vote is basically saying “Yes Obama, take this win we’ve offered you and beat us with it in the midterms”. Seriously.

Zaggs on December 20, 2012 at 5:16 PM

This.

The GOP is called the Stupid Party for a reason. Any conservative voting against Plan B because they want to stand on principle should stop to think what a Boehner/Obama deal that can attract Democrat votes would actually look like.

Plan B is the best strategic move the GOP (and conservatives) can make. That’s not to say it’s good policy, but at least it places the blame for the lousy economy and the fiscal mess we’re in squarely where it belongs: on Obama and the Dems’ shoulders.

DRayRaven on December 20, 2012 at 5:53 PM

the public is with teh o.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:50 PM

But the Senate is not. Again, check out how our government works sometime.

Chuck Schick on December 20, 2012 at 5:53 PM

In other words, it wasn’t Romney who dragged us down in November.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:51 PM

You are in Massachusetts. Setting national party policy over what works in your state would be suicide.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Nothing from a liberal is friendly. Hey, maybe you could get a law passed and force him to answer … that is the liberal way, to force people against their will.

darwin on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

Thank you for that, I am a second rate citizen in sesquipedalian eyes and am not allowed to voice my opinion since I’m home to see my family in Bratislava and Prague for holiday.

JPeterman on December 20, 2012 at 5:54 PM

We are simply out numbered by the low info idiot types. Sad and true.

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Reading the comments on this thread makes me wish for the Mayan Apocalypse.

No wonder we lost the election. People who think that proposing a tax increase on .5% (while extending the current rates for 99.5%) will be more damaging to conservative than being blamed for going over the fiscal cliff and having tax rates go up for everyone is not living in the real world.

Conservatives should be shouting about the fact that Obama wants to block a tax hike on millionaires.

Conservatives should be shouting that Obama wants to veto a tax cut on the middle class.

But no, some would rather bash Boehner at the top of their lungs, while shooting themselves in the other foot for good measure. RB over at The Right Sphere is the only one making any sense about this.

For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts on the subject.

right of the dial on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

No kidding. In fact, I wonder if some of these folks are actually being paid by the Democrats to push this line. I mean come on…we were all over the Democrats for shoving Obamacare down the throats of the American people..they did not want that we said…well, the American people want a deal now…the American people support at least some tax increases and now all of a sudden it is as if the American people do not matter at all…public opinion does not matter…and in fact making sure that taxes go up on everyone is a great and good thing. Insane.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Knock it off re: Todd Akin. “True Cons” didn’t put him there.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Folks are still rationalizing his epic fail. The R’s are becoming Whigs at a alarming rate. I have little to no confidence that the R’s have our back anymore.

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 5:53 PM

Boehner will try to cut a deal and put the GOP fingerprints on something which Obama will later use to claim that he did, or didn’t want based on if it works. They are arguing over the smallest of crumbs. Obama is going to get 95%, or 100% of what he wants.

Let him have it and stop enabling the left.

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Kingsgold,
its possible one of us misunderstood the other.

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM

I think I understand you well enough, but I think “let it burn” and “let them win” is suicidal for both the party and for the conservative movement at large.

I’ve seen this play enough times that I know the second act by heart. The deal fails, we go over the cliff, the media blames the GOP generally and House conservatives specifically, and the party’s brand suffers further at a time when we’re not all that popular among the general public.

This whole, “one more defeat until total victory” doesn’t work. 2012 proved that conclusively, after our failure of a president led us through four anemic years of malaise and managed to win re-election easily by turning out his zombies.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Knock it off re: Todd Akin. “True Cons” didn’t put him there.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Actually they did by splitting up the primary votes.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Myron Falwell,
So what is your plan?

rob verdi on December 20, 2012 at 5:39 PM

What would you do when given the choice of dying in hail of gunfire but keeping your principles intact or given the chance to pull the plug on life support after being declared brain dead? Plan B is obviously the latter.

Given the position our broke and bankrupt federal government is in, and the want by Obama to do nothing so as the blame the opposition regardless, here’s my plan. Pass nothing, let Obama continue his kabuki theatre crap. Oh, and during the Christmas break, hold as many town hall meetings as possible and ENGAGE YOUR DAMN CONSTITUENTS in what the hell is going on here. Buy 30 minute infomercial blocks on local and network TV. Try to establish SOME type of narrative so to TRY to compete with Obama and the MSM.

Oh, and replace Speaker BOHICA with someone that has some testicular fortitude. Preferably a woman. I nominate Mia Love.

Myron Falwell on December 20, 2012 at 5:57 PM

I want Conservative Leadership. I want somebody to stand up on their hind legs and tell Obama the way the cow ate the cabbage. I want someone to actually give a hoot ‘n holler about the average American, not the special interest groups, not the lobbyists, not “the smartest people in the room”…me.

I want an American President and competent American Congress people.

I want a dadblamed budget, first. I want them to be good stewards of MY money. Not their “revenue”. I want someone to stand up and be a MAN…or a WOMAN.

I am so dadgum tired of mealy-mouth squishes and political niceties and expediences, I could spit. Too many Americans are out of work and doing without this Christmas, While the three ring circus performs unabated under the Big Top on Capital HIll.

The American people are tired of cleaning up after the donkeys and the elephants. /KJ rant off

kingsjester on December 20, 2012 at 5:57 PM

They are not being anymore consistent than the American people themselves…they are acting like hypocrites.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Because two different “conservatives” consistently hold two different positions, they’re both hypocrites?

Try again.

EddieC on December 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM

This whole, “one more defeat until total victory” doesn’t work. 2012 proved that conclusively, after our failure of a president led us through four anemic years of malaise and managed to win re-election easily by turning out his zombies.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

This is true..and most of the people doing the yelling know it already. They just want to punish people because they lost the election. It is small, petty and self destructive.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM

the public is with teh o.
sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:50 PM

The public is an ass.

LegendHasIt on December 20, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Are there still not enough votes against Boehner to have him taken out as speaker. This round of incompetence should be his last. Tip O’Neal maybe?/

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 5:59 PM

I’m not a historian. But has there been any period in American history so bereft of leaders, so equally lacking in even mediocre thinkers and statesman, so crammed with corrupt malefactors who hate America on one hand and utter political boobs and cowards unable to defend it on the other?

Let it burn.

rrpjr on December 20, 2012 at 5:59 PM

The reason so many Americans vote for clowns who want more spending is because they don’t pay the taxes required to fund that extra spending. Guess what? It’s time they start. Go over the cliff and raise taxes even more in 2013.

EddieC on December 20, 2012 at 5:59 PM

I mean come on…we were all over the Democrats for shoving Obamacare down the throats of the American people..

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:55 PM

That was another point of stellar performance by Boner, who couldn’t bring himself to force even ONE reading of one of those myriad 2000+ page bills on the floor. Not even ONE reading to slow the process down. ANd then Boner couldn’t use any of the CR/debt limit needs of the left to attach a full repeal of ObamaScare. Instead, Boner got this “fiscal cliff” deal for the last debt limit raise – the cliff that all you fools are wailing about, now.

Sheesh. This is beyond ridiculous.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Actually they did by splitting up the primary votes.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

yep, Steelman was the far better choice. Thanks again Sarah!

SP2016

renalin on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Because two different “conservatives” consistently hold two different positions, they’re both hypocrites?

Try again.

EddieC on December 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM

No, they are hypocrites because they rage against tax increases and then sit back and let them happen.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Obama does not want a compromise. Obama does not want a compromise. Obama does not want a compromise.

Not as long as the audience applause meter is tilting in his direction and against Republicans.

Again, follow the money.

He wants the revenue from across-the-board tax increases, so long as his fingerprints aren’t on it. He’s got the R’s right where he wants them, and probably enjoying watching them try to negotiate with him when he has no intention of negotiating anything, only public perception.

IndieDogg on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Actually they did by splitting up the primary votes.

Terrye on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Some truecons voted for each of the three main candidates = truecons are responsible when any of the three wins.

You’ve constructed a tautology.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Let him have it and stop enabling the left.

sharrukin on December 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Agreed. It’s a lose lose proposition. I want no part of it. Let the Dims own it.

Bmore on December 20, 2012 at 6:01 PM

renalin on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Brunner was the better choice. And now we’re back to why Akin won.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 6:01 PM

you also refused to consider several reasonable offers.

sesquipedalian on December 20, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Holy crap. Never seen such blatant propaganda.

So – let’s get this stright. According to this “chart”, Obama is not planning to raise taxes at all. On anyone.

Also – he has actually detailed his spending cuts he plans to make.

I always thought you were annoying. Now I know you’re stupid too.

(“It’s in the paper – it must be true!”)

CycloneCDB on December 20, 2012 at 6:01 PM

CycloneCDB on December 20, 2012 at 6:01 PM

He also responded to Boehner offer #2 by raising the stakes. He’s totally unserious.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 6:02 PM

You are in Massachusetts. Setting national party policy over what works in your state would be suicide.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 5:54 PM

New York, actually, and I haven’t advocated anything of the sort.

All I’m saying is that the argument that Romney was too moderate or too far left to beat Obama is absolute garbage. The numbers don’t lie.

Personally, I think the national party has to accept the fact that we lost the culture war. Doctrinaire social conservatism is literally dying off. Church membership is down, more children are being born out of wedlock, and alternative lifestyles (by whichever meaning you wish) are regularly lionized in our media culture.

I think we need to become a libertarian party. Stay fiscally conservative, but relax some of our social positions. Opposition to gay marriage is no longer a winning issue, for example, especially now that statewide referenda – not insular courts or bought-and-paid-for legislators – have approved it.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 6:02 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

boehners beloved by the romneybots. the rest of us know what a spineless creature he is.

renalin on December 20, 2012 at 6:03 PM

Personally, I think the national party has to accept the fact that we lost the culture war. Doctrinaire social conservatism is literally dying off. Church membership is down, more children are being born out of wedlock, and alternative lifestyles (by whichever meaning you wish) are regularly lionized in our media culture.

KingGold on December 20, 2012 at 6:02 PM

You really do live in another world. None of those things are true where I live. Blue america is just getting more blue.

alwaysfiredup on December 20, 2012 at 6:03 PM

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