Jay Carney: Gun control is part of the solution but far from all of it

posted at 4:11 pm on December 17, 2012 by Allahpundit

Via Mediaite. Carney usually looks uncomfortable to the point of constipation but I’m still surprised to see him so ill at ease and noncommittal in talking about this. Obama has the political wind at his back. Per ABC, 54 percent of adults now say they favor stricter gun-control laws, which is a bit higher (but only a bit) than polls have shown over the past five years. Longtime pro-gun Democrats like Harry Reid, Joe Manchin, and Mark Warner are chattering about a change of heart, no doubt in part because they’re afraid to cross a guy who just won 330+ electoral votes at a moment of high national emotion. If ever there was a time to pound the podium, this is it.

So why the conspicuous hedge? Probably because the White House knows that the public backlash to guns after mass shootings, at least until now, has been fleeting. O’s afraid to dive headfirst into the gun-control pool until he’s sure there’s some water in there. (That’s what all the “tipping point”/”this time is different” rhetoric from liberals was about this weekend.) But if even pro-gun Dems are giving him political cover, what does he have to lose by pushing the issue as hard as he can and daring Senate Republicans to filibuster whatever emerges? All that’s left of the Hopenchange brand is the idea that the GOP is scary and evil and loves rich people and dead children. That message got this guy re-elected; no sense to give up on it now. At the very least, if he can force a party-line vote in which Republicans filibuster a Democratic gun-control bill banning, say, high-capacity magazines, he might make enough GOP senators uncomfortable about being boxed in on that issue that they’ll try to compromise on other issues that are more important to him. If he’s lucky, depending upon how restrained the eventual Democratic bill is, he might even attract enough Republicans to get to 60. Murkowski can usually be counted on to cross the GOP in a pinch; Collins is a perennial wild card too. Those two, plus the increased number of Democrats in the next Congress will get him close if he can hold the Democratic caucus together. A new assault-weapons ban like Feinstein is proposing may be a bridge too far for Reid, Manchin, et al., but something more modest might be viable. Then, if it gets through, the House will torpedo it and Obama can get back to his scary-evil-Republican messaging, which might earn him an extra concession or two on immigration or the budget or whatever.

Incidentally, a data point from that ABC poll linked above:

You see now why the Journal thinks high-capacity magazines are a likely starting point for a new gun-control bill. Look at the other two results, though. Adults overwhelmingly oppose a total ban on guns but they marginally support a ban on semiautomatics, even though semiautomatics make up the vast, vast majority of guns. Per Tim Carney’s post this morning, talking about “semiautomatic weapons” is like talking about “gasoline cars.” That’s how common they are. If the public opposes those and yet also opposes a blanket prohibition on guns, it’s likely because some chunk of them is confused about what a “semiautomatic” actually is and does. Which is another way of saying that when you read opinion polls on this topic, take the results with a grain or two of salt.

Exit question: Jeff Greenfield argues that the immediate aftermath of a horrendous attack is precisely the right time to start a policy debate over solutions. Okay, but does that logic apply to acts of terrorism too? I know people on both the left and right who think that creating TSA and passing the Patriot Act in a flurry of Do-Something concern after 9/11 proved to be a panicky, ill-considered response to the attack that hasn’t done much to improve safety. Second look at the Do-Something approach, then?


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But your semantics are just a dodge and a deflection.
 
verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 5:57 PM

 
Insert whatever emoticon applies here.

rogerb on December 17, 2012 at 7:16 PM

Same tired arguments being used her to dismiss even the idea of some sensible regulation of guns.

verbaluce

Who has floated any sensible regulations that would have prevented this shooting? 20,000 gun laws on the books right now, by the way. But feel free to lie some more.

But it’s crickets at the NRA for a reason.

verbaluce

Yes there is. It’s called decency, unlike dems who started exploiting the death of children for political gain before the bodies were cold.

What exactly is an Assault weapon?

Galt2009

And a gun show loophole?

xblade on December 17, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Liberal morons only know what their overlords and the media allow them to know….

darwin on December 17, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Bingo, therein is the issue. It’s all about the media, and what they “allow” to get out as ‘news.’

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 7:19 PM

The least the concern trolls could do is to condemn or support violent video games/music/movies/television. And what about our metal health care system, don’t give me that garbage about it being to expensive, they are usually getting disability and all sorts of government assistance. Do they really think the answer is entirely with gun control?

Cindy Munford on December 17, 2012 at 7:22 PM

You gun banning leftists aren’t very bright or honest. These fine folks here at HA have spent a good portion of the day trying to enlighten you. You are having none of it. You have a narrative and an agenda to adhere to. My invitation is always open to you for a visit.

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Is a magazine that holds only five acceptable to you leftists?

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Mine that holds only five is named Roy. Roy Jr.

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:25 PM

STFU Delmonte.

lostmotherland on December 17, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! Awesome.

Cindy Munford on December 17, 2012 at 7:26 PM

This little jewel had all sorts of unused ammo, does anyone think he cared how many magazines he had to bring along. Already brought more than he could use.

Cindy Munford on December 17, 2012 at 7:28 PM

Cindy Munford on December 17, 2012 at 7:26 PM

You would think that one would be happy to receive such a high grade from Del. Del doesn’t just give those out to anyone.

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:28 PM

P.S. Nice to see you laugh. ; )

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Fundamentally change the United States of America…” - Guess who?

Seven Percent Solution on December 17, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Is a magazine that holds only five acceptable to you leftists?

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Wouldn’t a ban on more than 5 kind of have outlawed 6 shooters?

Resist We Much on December 17, 2012 at 7:30 PM

If ever there was a time to pound the podium, this is it.

Says the guy your tax dollars paid to train-

POUND SAND

M240H on December 17, 2012 at 7:31 PM

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Thanks, and as to your 7:28 comment, I think we know there is no pleasing them.

Cindy Munford on December 17, 2012 at 7:32 PM

I love this phony Obama. He goes on tv and does the crocodile tears thing for the camera’s. But this is after he and Holder have sent true assault guns across the border that have killed thousands of Mexicans and Americans.

pwb on December 17, 2012 at 7:33 PM

The only people more ignorant about gun laws the police administrators are POLITICIANS.

TX-96 on December 17, 2012 at 7:35 PM

Here are my five. I ask again, is five acceptable?

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Actually,

There is a simple solution. Get rid of “Gun Free Zones” and then the bad guys will no longer have access to our children without some fear.

See Israel and their teachers. Thailand and their teachers.

See which cities restrict firearms the most and have the highest gun related crime. Because only the truly bad have them.

Because states that have relaxed their rules, such as Florida, have lower crime rates by far.

Getting rid of this unicorn dream that banning a firearm will magically make things better.

Liberals are all about feelings, in spite of rational facts and reason.

ProfShadow on December 17, 2012 at 7:37 PM

I’m more familiar with guns that you assume.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 6:09 PM

You’re a horrible liar.

NotCoach on December 17, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Nope.
And I said, more familiar than ‘you’ assume.
I’ve owned a few, but nothing more powerful than a Ruger 10-22.
(Loved that one.) Never fired a fully auto, but have many times been on the range with an AR-15 (Colt, original). Lots of other 7.62s as well…like the HK417.
Have had the opp to fire pretty much every caliber handgun, incl. most semi-autos.
But again, all I was saying was more familiar than assumed. I have no doubt you and many others here possess both more guns and more knowledge.
But I’m not one of those who ‘just hates guns’.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Oh, and I do have a “five-shooter”. It’s a Freedom Arms model 83 chambered in .454 Casull. It will, basically, send a projectile through thirty or forty Priuses line up end to end. The 2X Luepold keeps things lined up nicely.

M240H on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Resist We Much on December 17, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Lol! Good point! ; )

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:39 PM

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Is it freedom you hate? How will you protect your rights?

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Is a magazine that holds only five acceptable to you leftists?

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Wouldn’t a ban on more than 5 kind of have outlawed 6 shooters?

Resist We Much on December 17, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Personally, I’d ban any cult that hold five leftists. It’s likely they would’ve outlawed six.

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 7:41 PM

But I’m not one of those who ‘just hates guns’.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Actually, yes, you are. Symbology is everything on the Left.

M240H on December 17, 2012 at 7:43 PM

Lol! Good point! ; )

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:39 PM

To the gun control advocates, any gun that loads the next round is an “automatic.” Under that definition, even a revolver is an “automatic” or “semi-automatic” – I suppose – if you have to cock it (right terminology?) before you pull the trigger.

The only gun, I suppose, that would not be considered “automatic” on some level would be a single-barrel shotgun since you have to reload it after each time it is fired.

Resist We Much on December 17, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Resist We Much on December 17, 2012 at 7:45 PM

I am in compliance, well, in some regard. I do own one single shot gun.

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 7:50 PM

I’d be interested to hear your explanation of why crime has gone DOWN since the expiration of the “assault weapon” ban.

Solaratov

He sees where you’re going with this, and isn’t interested in playing that game.

xblade on December 17, 2012 at 7:50 PM

STFU Delmonte.

lostmotherland on December 17, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Here, motherload……………..

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/Mamba1-0/Stet/butthurtreport.jpg

Just copy that, fill it out completely and send it in. Someone who cares will get right on it for you.

Poor thing.

Bless your heart.

Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 7:52 PM

an administration that illegally gives guns to Mexican drug cartels is in no position to lecture me about responsible gun ownership.

deimos on December 17, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Not to mention the fact that people seem to think it take 5mins to load a new magazine in a gun.

Have to educate people one at a time since the media isn’t doing their job.

nextgen_repub on December 17, 2012 at 4:27 PM

And how many of those incorrectly referred to magazines as “clips”?

Nutstuyu on December 17, 2012 at 8:00 PM

But I’m not one of those who ‘just hates guns’.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Funny, your posts kind of give lie to that statement.

Given your postings, for someone who supposedly owns guns, you come across as pretty ignorant about them.

AZfederalist on December 17, 2012 at 8:03 PM

AZfederalist on December 17, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Well AZ, it didn’t say it liked them either. I tell you friend, its been very difficult to get an answer out of any of these leftists that infest this site today. Still wondering how they plan to protect their rights. ; ) Sounding like they will be relying on someone else for that. As usual.

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Bam!

That there’s funny.

hillbillyjim on December 17, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Sometimes, it’s hell living in a blue state. As long as there are two more parents to care for, we wouldn’t think about leaving their well-being up to “gub’mt.”

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 7:03 PM

I hear ya. Colorado has gotten a lot bluer over the years I’ve been here. Too many Kalifornicators moving in – especially to the Denver-Boulder area.

dentarthurdent on December 17, 2012 at 8:19 PM

But I’m not one of those who ‘just hates guns’.
verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM
Funny, your posts kind of give lie to that statement.
Given your postings, for someone who supposedly owns guns, you come across as pretty ignorant about them.
AZfederalist on December 17, 2012 at 8:03 PM

You need to learn to be able to follow and allow for mutually exclusive opinions/positions.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Fair enough. But if you look at the poll, the question isn’t about all guns, it is specifically semiautomatic handguns that a majority think should be banned. That is the majority of pistols.

The gun used in CT was a semiautomatic rifle. Why are they asking about pistols then? It is to merge rifles and pistols together.

Patriot Vet on December 17, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Yes – that is the problem – they want to start with the scary assulat rifles (that they can’t seem to define), then to the semi-auto pistols, and eventually they’ll get to everything else.
I’m sure my 17 round S&W M&P 9 is just a horribly scary thing that has to be eliminated. And of course my son’s AK….

dentarthurdent on December 17, 2012 at 8:24 PM

I understand the emotion that drives people to advocate gun “control”. We are all reeling emotionally.

That said…

Gun “control” is nothing more than a “feel good” emotional band aid, not a sober approach to combating violent murders and murder/suicides.

Life is brutal.

If we are serious about protecting the vulnerable and innocent, we would be advocate that public schools have a number of concealed carry permit holders on the staff that train regularly. I would say at least six per 100 students.

Until we face the reality of these problems as adults dealing with the hard, cold facts of life, we will continue to increase the vulnerability of the innocent with the Disney fantasies of gun free zones and “control” laws.

It is so incredibly irresponsible, and crass, to have a “feel good” legislative session and leave the innocent as vulnerable, or even more vulnerable than, they were before.

Then, of course, there are the advocates that could care less about the vulnerable, because their protection is not the real agenda anyway.

Saltysam on December 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM

STFU Delmonte.

lostmotherland on December 17, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Ahhh – the final refuge of the loser….

dentarthurdent on December 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM

You need to learn to be able to follow and allow for mutually exclusive opinions/positions.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Why? You obots don’t.

In fact, you always seem surprised to learn that there are opinions other than those expressed by your masters.

Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Sometimes, it’s hell living in a blue state. As long as there are two more parents to care for, we wouldn’t think about leaving their well-being up to “gub’mt.”

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 7:03 PM

I hear ya. Colorado has gotten a lot bluer over the years I’ve been here. Too many Kalifornicators moving in – especially to the Denver-Boulder area.

dentarthurdent on December 17, 2012 at 8:19 PM

It’s just what we do as responsible children, we do not leave their care to others, namely the government.

But maybe, all those who DO want the government deciding their end-of-life care can answer this: how do YOU see that for yourselves?

I’m genuinely curious.

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 8:29 PM

You need to learn to be able to follow and allow for mutually exclusive opinions/positions.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Lol!

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 8:29 PM

You need to learn to be able to follow and allow for mutually exclusive opinions/positions.
verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:22 PM
Why? You obots don’t.
In fact, you always seem surprised to learn that there are opinions other than those expressed by your masters.
Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Sure. My masters have forbidden me from even hearing the opinions of HA cons.
Wait…damn!

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:31 PM

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Oh, goody! The intentionally obtuse ploy.

Not workin’. Try again, lefty.

Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Sure. My masters have forbidden me from even hearing the opinions of HA cons.
Wait…damn!

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Are you saying you’re a neo-rat?

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Well all, time for me to retire from this blog and devote some time to that wise husband I mentioned earlier.

I wish you all strength amid the evil; the temerity to retain it and the courage to sustain it.

G’night.

jersey taxpayer on December 17, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Good Night, jersey taxpayer , Pleasant Dreams.

Bmore on December 17, 2012 at 8:49 PM

The smart, confident sheep know the difference between the sheepdog and the wolf.

mike_NC9 on December 17, 2012 at 8:51 PM

Oh, and I do have a “five-shooter”. It’s a Freedom Arms model 83 chambered in .454 Casull. It will, basically, send a projectile through thirty or forty Priuses line up end to end. The 2X Luepold keeps things lined up nicely.

M240H on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

.
I had been out of touch with the Gun Industry, from the early ’80s through about 2007. When I first learned of the .454 Casull, I thought: “Oh Lord . . . . . they’ve finally built a handgun around an ‘elephant cartridge’. What’s next ?”

listens2glenn on December 17, 2012 at 8:53 PM

Oh, and I do have a “five-shooter”. It’s a Freedom Arms model 83 chambered in .454 Casull. It will, basically, send a projectile through thirty or forty Priuses line up end to end. The 2X Luepold keeps things lined up nicely.

M240H on December 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM

.
I had been out of touch with the Gun Industry, from the early ’80s through about 2007. When I first learned of the .454 Casull, I thought: “Oh Lord . . . . . they’ve finally built a handgun around an ‘elephant cartridge’. What’s next ?”

listens2glenn on December 17, 2012 at 8:53 PM

We used the .454 Casull back in the later 1960s. The only guns were custom-made. The ammo was strictly handloaded – no commercial available. We used to use Duplex loads (compressed loads of Bullseye and 4198) and Triplex loads (Bullseye, Unique and 4198). As I recall, they were substantially ‘stiffer’ than what you can buy today.

For some real fun, try a .475 Linebaugh. Great fun! ;-)

Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 9:25 PM

You need to learn to be able to follow and allow for mutually exclusive opinions/positions.

verbaluce on December 17, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Oh, I understand that there may be mutually exclusive opinions and positions. I just don’t expect them to come from the same person on the same thread.

/That would be you by the way

AZfederalist on December 17, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Jay Carney: Gun control is part of the solution but far from all of it

But in the meantime, give us your guns. Daddy knows best.

davidk on December 17, 2012 at 10:00 PM

… s I recall, they were substantially ‘stiffer’ than what you can buy today.

For some real fun, try a .475 Linebaugh. Great fun! ;-)

Solaratov on December 17, 2012 at 9:25 PM

1,800+ ft.lbs. from 7 1/2″ is sufficient, and i like the variety of projectiles available for different loadings. The .475 is a bit limited on jacketed bullets for lighter loads. Hard casts on the game in my neck of the woods will over-penetrate- no great bears, no big ungulates.

M240H on December 17, 2012 at 10:21 PM

verbaluce on December 17, 2012

lostmotherland on December 17, 2012

…cripes!….. I was busy all day and am trying to catch up on all the threads…but it seems that all everybody did… was feed trolls today!
…why don’t we let vaginajuice and lostmoterfluker…just dry hump each other all day instead?

KOOLAID2 on December 17, 2012 at 10:36 PM

If the Sandy Hook shootings were carried out by a couple of Muslims, the left wouldn’t be talking about gun control. They’d be talking about what we did to upset them and how we could put it right.

Sharke on December 17, 2012 at 10:36 PM

And by “complex” he means “full blown confiscation”.

Mr Galt on December 17, 2012 at 11:02 PM

which assault weapons? Sticks? Bats? Lead Pipes? Knives? Scissors? Darts?

“What are weapons that can be used in an assualt, for $400 Alex.”

John Kettlewell on December 18, 2012 at 12:55 AM

From now on, after “assault weapons” you add “[comma]whatever those are[comma]“.

John Kettlewell on December 18, 2012 at 12:57 AM

Perhaps we could use this outrage to get Mr. Holder and the justice department to own up to it’s own ‘no-good’

hoakie on December 18, 2012 at 5:07 PM

When a politcian says “It’s a complex problem”, that means they don’t plan to do anything.

As for “studying the problem”, the last time a politician did that we got “an Incovnenient Truth”.

No need to run down to the gun-store, nothing will happen.

Obama has “bigger fish to fry”, namely the House republicans and their loosening grip on the purse-strings.

virgo on December 20, 2012 at 1:24 AM

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