Open thread: Sunday morning talking heads

posted at 8:01 am on December 16, 2012 by Allahpundit

The topic du jour is just what you’d expect, and the tenor of the commentary will be just what you expect too. Mike Bloomberg is the lead guest on “Meet the Press.” ‘Nuff said.

The line-up, such as it is, via WaPo:

NBC’s Meet the Press: Full coverage of the Connecticut school shooting. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on gun violence and control.

CBS’ Face the Nation: Full coverage of the Connecticut school shooting. Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY); Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX); Michael Eric Dyson, Georgetown University; Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic; Dan Gross, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

ABC’s This Week: Full coverage of the Connecticut school shooting.

Fox News Sunday: Full coverage of the Connecticut school shooting. Bill Kristol, Weekly Standard; Liz Marlantes, Christian Science Monitor; Nina Easton, Fortune; Brit Hume, Fox

CNN’s State of the Union with Candy Crowley: Full coverage of the Connecticut school shooting.


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Again, you’re wrong, Slade. Regarding pubs and conservatives. Go back to my original post.

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:29 PM

@Tommy71

Reagan believed that conservatism was a three-legged stool, consisting of religious conservatives, national security conservatives, and economic/libertarian conservatives. None of which clash with my viewpoint. Apparently you agree, cause you haven’t told me which does.

Did you attend a public school in Wisconsin by any chance?

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM

To all of you gun banning leftists. How do you plan on protecting your rights. How will you ?

Bmore on December 16, 2012 at 1:25 PM

When the criminals who will be the only gun owners break into their homes, they will call 9/11… Yeah the criminals would have shot them by then and it will be too late…

mnjg on December 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Those Chitown arrests? Total non sequitur. My guess, gang bangers. Who cares if they smoked weed? Nothing. To. Do. With. It

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 12:20 PM

But you said potheads don’t shoot anybody.

Did you, perhaps, mean, potheads don’t shoot anybody…except for the ones that do?

OK. We’ll just ignore the potheads who DO shoot people; and accept your statement as totally true…except for the part that isn’t.

How’s that?

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Tommy is a two legged stool fan.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Ha Slade, so far we’ve been having a civil discourse. But now that you’ve lost the arguement, you attack. How predictable. Lol

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Socons have clashed with your viewpoint, Slade. On numerous weed threads. Why are you lying? Truly pathetic.

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM

To the crazies and potential terrorists out there, these schools and other places have a huge sign over the front door reading WE’RE TOTALLY UNARMED! COME ON IN!

Police chiefs all over the place have been telling us to arm ourselves, and it’s been established that the police have no responsibility to protect us. Common sense dictates that they can’t be everywhere at once anyhow.

Not allowing school employees to exercise their second amendment rights is ludicrous to begin with. If you have a CDL and are a teacher, you are unarmed not only at the school but on the way to work and coming home from work because you can’t even leave your weapon in your vehicle in the parking lot.

Private businesses not wanting concealed weapons is another problem, though they certainly have more latitude in deciding their policies. You could simply not go to that business, but what if all or nearly all of them adopt this policy?

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM

But you said potheads don’t shoot anybody.

Did you, perhaps, mean, potheads don’t shoot anybody…except for the ones that do?

OK. We’ll just ignore the potheads who DO shoot people; and accept your statement as totally true…except for the part that isn’t.

How’s that?

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM

yada yada :)

I suppose I’m guilty of generalization there. What I meant was pot doesn’t make people shoot people. It makes them laugh at Spongebob

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:38 PM

lostmotherland

Since when are libs like you concerned about the death of children?

xblade on December 16, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Whenever they can exploit those deaths to further encroach on the rights of free people.

Otherwise…meh.

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 1:38 PM

meant CWL

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM

Socons have clashed with your viewpoint, Slade. On numerous weed threads. Why are you lying? Truly pathetic.

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM

SoCons with a fundamental misunderstanding of God’s word which doesn’t include – don’t smoke weed or go to hell.

I’m a Christian myself Tommy. Somehow I don’t think they’ll reject me at the pearly gates because I smoked a joint.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:41 PM

But you said potheads don’t shoot anybody.

Did you, perhaps, mean, potheads don’t shoot anybody…except for the ones that do?

OK. We’ll just ignore the potheads who DO shoot people; and accept your statement as totally true…except for the part that isn’t.

How’s that?

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Pot can and does induce schizophrenic tendencies in a small subset of YOUNGER folk. Long-term use can make it worse.

It gave me some problems when I was younger and experimenting, and I was smart and alienated.

Like it or not, the move toward legalization of marijuana is going to exacerbate this issue. There is no way around the facts, and I am dealing from experienced facts, without emotion.

Pot + first-person-shooter games + maladjustment is a very toxic brew.

What are we going to do? I don’t know.

If it comes out that Lanza was a pot-smoker and a first-person shooter aficionado, then the discussion will be out in the open.

What a sad, sad situatiun :-(

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM

But now that you’ve lost the arguement, you attack. How predictable. Lol

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:35 PM

funny how the argument continues but somehow the two legged stool fan thinks he’s won. I hope you’re not a carpenter Tommy.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Yep, ofcourse. The socons are wrong, and you’re right. Lol.

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Where did I say that I believed in the 2 legged stool? I didn’t. Thats your imagination. Lol

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:45 PM

I have experienced how pot can make one volatile.

For the MOST PART….

First-person shooter game folks can handle it. So can most pot-smokers.

What about those who can’t handle it?

Guns are the tool, and one can’t ban access to hammers either. A pot/acid addled teen I went to school with broke into a house and hammered two young girls to death with a clawhammer. This was in the ’80s.

This is a toxic-brew situation.

What do we do?

That’s the question.

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Pot can and does induce schizophrenic tendencies in a small subset of YOUNGER folk. Long-term use can make it worse.

where do you find this stuff? The same Governments that say Global Warming is man made?

Pot + first-person-shooter games + maladjustment is a very toxic brew.

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM

let’s just ban it all then. Can’t get anymore conservative than that. Must be the fourth leg of conservatism, right Tommy?

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:47 PM

let’s just ban it all then. Can’t get anymore conservative than that. Must be the fourth leg of conservatism, right Tommy?

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:47 PM

I am just laying out the problem, from first-hand experience.

Got to go: do some work at girlfriend’s house.

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:48 PM

Yep, ofcourse. The socons are wrong, and you’re right. Lol.

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:43 PM

SoCons take their cues from the Bible mostly. Find me the verse Tommy where it says, “Then God made weed, and it was evil”

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Conservatism is fiscal (slades translation is economic/libertarian), social and national defense. No one or two legs can win. Takes all three to win. (Got it, Slade)?

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM

later cane_loader

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:47 PM

I am giving my personal experience. I don’t need a government study to tell me what I have seen in my life.

If you are defending pot emotionally, it won’t help solve the problem.

This is a complex problem and you need to go macro and help propose solution.

I an a gun-owner and I am saying that we need to address the young-white-alienated shooter problem – INTELLIGENTLY.

And I have experienced a lot.

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:50 PM

Later Slade!!

GF has pork chops and will be pissed if I don’t go over ther now to drive some nails and eat soul food!!! ;)

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:51 PM

Spread this around – your enemies are intentionally obtuse.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2012 at 1:51 PM

If it comes out that Lanza was a pot-smoker and a first-person shooter aficionado, then the discussion will be out in the open.

What a sad, sad situatiun :-(

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM

Not really. The government is looking at pot as a source of tax money – a cash cow – so they don’t want to have a discussion about any possible harmful side effects (if there are, in fact, any).
And the entertainment industry is already making a huge fortune from F-P shooter games – and they are not about to give that up…so don’t ask for a responsible discussion there, either.

And the people who enjoy marijuana and/or FP shooter games either don’t want to have the discussion or don’t care what new information might emerge…especially if it is contrary to their beliefs/desires.

There will be NO discussion – at this time and under this regime – of those subjects.

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Conservatism is fiscal (slades translation is economic/libertarian), social and national defense. No one or two legs can win. Takes all three to win. (Got it, Slade)?

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM

that’s not my translation. That’s what Reagan said. You must be using wikipedia.

I agree though. No one or two legs can win. Which is why the SoCons on this site are completely misguided when they dump on the Libertarians who were willing to join the ranks to defeat Barack Obama.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Nope, the fact is that SoCons have argued with you on every weed thread. What is it, Slade? Don’t like socons? Then say so. And don’t pretend to be a conservative. You may be a libertarian (in that case follow the anti-semite. Oh yeah, follow Rand. Hes a bit better).

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:56 PM

Oh noes. This site has max no. of fisc cons who dump on socons. You got it the other way round, Slade. Unless the 3 legs of the stool stand together, you ain’t gonna win. Ever. Dumping on each other is pathetic.

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 2:03 PM

Got to go. Bye

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Then say so. And don’t pretend to be a conservative. You may be a libertarian (in that case follow the anti-semite. Oh yeah, follow Rand. Hes a bit better).

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 1:56 PM

My mom’s a SoCon – I don’t hate her. Mostly I don’t like Lourdes. She’s like NewsBusters on steroids.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Got to go. Bye

tommy71 on December 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Good riddance. Don’t come back, Israeli puppet.

MelonCollie on December 16, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Mostly I don’t like Lourdes. She’s like NewsBusters on steroids.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 2:49 PM

*retch* Now there’s an interesting description!

MelonCollie on December 16, 2012 at 2:50 PM

GF has pork chops and will be pissed if I don’t go over ther now to drive some nails and eat soul food!!! ;)

cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:51 PM

Lucky ducky!

;)

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 16, 2012 at 3:10 PM

2 Dead in Shooting at Excalibur Hotel

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/20351472/2-confirmed-shot-at-excalibur-hotel

Alabama Hospital Shooting: St. Vincent’s Gunman Wounds 3 Before Being Killed By Police

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/15/alabama-hospital-shooting-wounded-gunman-killed_n_2307505.html

Indiana man arrested with 47 guns [which he owned for self defense] after threats to local school – Von. I. Meyer reportedly said he would kill “as many people as he could” [for self defense of course]

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/indiana_man_arrested_with_47_guns_after_threats_to_local_school

Deputies: NC man shoots and kills wife, mother-in-law

http://myfox8.com/2012/12/15/deputies-nc-man-shoots-and-kills-wife-mother-in-law/

Authorities mystified why the mythical and supposedly omnipresent responsible-trained-gun-owner did not show up for duty in these incidents.

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

China is on top of it.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Thank God for the off button on the TV and my computer. I’ve got better things to do.

SC.Charlie on December 16, 2012 at 3:40 PM

Remember when President George W. Bush met with the 9/11 victim’s families privately…?

NBC Nightly News ‏@nbcnightlynews

Just in: Air Force One has landed at Bradley Int’l Airport in Hartford, CT. The President will speak at a vigil in #Newtown later tonight

… I’m sure no one around Oblahblah will have a gun.

Seven Percent Solution on December 16, 2012 at 4:07 PM

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Remember when President George W. Bush met with the 9/11 victim’s families privately…?

Seven Percent Solution on December 16, 2012 at 4:07 PM

If d’ohbama could, he’d have a photo op with the bodies of the dead children.
As it is, he’ll have to settle for a photo op – and faking a tear or two – with the families.

What a low piece of trash he is.

Solaratov on December 16, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Authorities mystified why the mythical and supposedly omnipresent responsible-trained-gun-owner did not show up for duty in these incidents.

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Because liberals would want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for violating the ‘civil rights’ of a murderous criminal.

Liam on December 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Authorities mystified why the mythical and supposedly omnipresent responsible-trained-gun-owner did not show up for duty in these incidents.

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Mass shootings are a daily occurrence in inner-city Chicago, Baltimore, DC, etc. You have a greater chance of getting shot in Obama’s hood than as an American soldier in Afghanistan.

But, that’s just blacks and hispanics killing other blacks and hispanics in the ghettos, so who cares, right? I guess the fact that these are God-less, machine Democrat neighborhoods are completely irrelevant, right?

The Count on December 16, 2012 at 4:35 PM

So, Feinstien, a CCW carrier herself, has now indicated that she and other liberals have been working on anti-gun law FOR THE PAST YEAR. Gee… And in that same past year we are seeing massacres with not only ever increasing frequency, but ever increasing brutality. And not even one committed by a conservative or GOP. Hmmm… Is there a theme here?

I just want Feinstein explain to me how is it that CT shooter had a BULLET PROOF VEST and yet decided to take his own life. While cops found another man nearby in the woods wearing fatigues. And let him go. Just because he was simply taking a stroll, as he explained. Yep, another co-incidence and nothing else.

I don’t believe in “co-incidences”. Should we yet again check the shooter’s political party affiliation or is it pretty clear by now?

Seems the only additional background check that MUST be done at the time of gun purchase is a political party.

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 4:39 PM

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

You want to play link games?

Here ya’ go:
abc news

It took just 10 minutes for a man armed with a kitchen knife to unleash terror in a Japanese elementary school in a stabbing spree that left eight school children dead and injured 21 other people.

LA Times

Woman apparently stabbed to death with BBQ fork, LAPD says

http://news92fm.com/308036/one-dead-another-injured-in-se-houston-stabbing : News Houston Link deleted because HA only allows three

A stabbing at a house on the city’s southeast side overnight leaves one man dead and a homeowner injured.

Daily Mail from a country that has banned guns and is working on banning knives and other blunt objects:

Beautiful PhD student, 28, found dead in her Bath Georgian home was strangled

So, you trying to prove that evil exists in this world? Yeah, we get that. You think that removing guns will stop evil or even mass murder from happening? You, as others have said, are an idiot. The only thing you will do is make the less strong among us unable to defend themselves. Just as in that gun free zone on Friday, the evil among us was able to perpetrate his evil knowing that no one in that school would be able to defend themselves and that they had been conditioned to not defend themselves.

AZfederalist on December 16, 2012 at 4:43 PM

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

You want to play link games?

Here ya’ go:
abc news

It took just 10 minutes for a man armed with a kitchen knife to unleash terror in a Japanese elementary school in a stabbing spree that left eight school children dead and injured 21 other people.

LA Times

Woman apparently stabbed to death with BBQ fork, LAPD says

… another example from News Houston deleted

Daily Mail from a country that has banned guns and is working on banning knives and other blunt objects:

Beautiful PhD student, 28, found dead in her Bath Georgian home was strangled

So, you trying to prove that evil exists in this world? Yeah, we get that. You think that removing guns will stop evil or even mass murder from happening? You, as others have said, are an idiot. The only thing you will do is make the less strong among us unable to defend themselves. Just as in that gun free zone on Friday, the evil among us was able to perpetrate his evil knowing that no one in that school would be able to defend themselves and that they had been conditioned to not defend themselves.

AZfederalist on December 16, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Mass shootings are a daily occurrence in inner-city Chicago, Baltimore, DC, etc. You have a greater chance of getting shot in Obama’s hood than as an American soldier in Afghanistan.

But, that’s just blacks and hispanics killing other blacks and hispanics in the ghettos, so who cares, right? I guess the fact that these are God-less, machine Democrat neighborhoods are completely irrelevant, right?

The Count on December 16, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Actually, I don’t care much for adult gang members shooting and killing each other as long as no bystanders are hit. Willingly becoming a violent criminal has consequences., including abrupt death.

But no, it’s not politics of the victims here that matters, it’s not even their age (even though that amplifies the tragedy). It’s the fact that they were completely innocent.

lester on December 16, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Apparently, this is Adam Lanza’s Facebook page.

His political beliefs explain the motives for his shooting.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3611_423506811050933_1150852840_n.jpg

Also got fat.

sentinelrules on December 16, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM

But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thessalonians 5:8

There are others.

INC on December 16, 2012 at 4:55 PM

This issue is more about a society that has forgotten about young men and men in general. When the NFL has players prancing around the field in pink to wave the banner of breast cancer awareness, while prostate cancer, a killer of mostly men, is ignored by a sport that caters mostly to men, something has gone awry. Our entire society promotes womens issues and benefits women. Young men are lost and confused. Families without father figures, boys pumped full of prescription drugs while pumping heads full of violence via video games and the entertainment industry……so many reasons why this shyt is happening but no one is addressing the root causes.
Bingo.

Also, at the risk of sounding like an arshole, did it take 4 pages for someone to say this?

If you look at the correlation btw the massive increase in pumping young boys full of psych meds and the school shooting phenomenon you’ll be shocked at the correlation. Conversely there is a inverse correlation btw mental healh spending and prison spending.

The war on boys spoke of this decades ago. Feminism is like a movie critic that is always incorrect yet still provides useful information.

rickyricardo on December 16, 2012 at 4:58 PM

You have a greater chance of getting shot in Obama’s hood than as an American soldier in Afghanistan.

The Count on December 16, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Nah. Barack and Michelle Obama’s ‘hood (and that of my peeps family) is indeed on the infamous South Side, but lakefront Hyde Park is home to multimillion dollar residences, the Museum of Science and Industry, and the University of Chicago which, with 87 Nobel Prize laureates (largely in Economics), comes in second only to Cambridge, England.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 16, 2012 at 4:59 PM

Also, at the risk of sounding like an arshole, did it take 4 pages for someone to say this?

rickyricardo on December 16, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Apparently, it did. You don’t sound like an arshole. You sound like you are offering up another piece to the puzzle.

Fallon on December 16, 2012 at 5:00 PM

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/indiana_man_arrested_with_47_guns_after_threats_to_local_school

lester, it’s time for your violin lesson! on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Salon? That explains a lot.

You have my deepest sympathy.

Del Dolemonte on December 16, 2012 at 5:02 PM

Apparently, this is Adam Lanza’s Facebook page.

His political beliefs explain the motives for his shooting.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3611_423506811050933_1150852840_n.jpg

sentinelrules on December 16, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Yup, as suspected, he’s a Tea Partier.

/

Del Dolemonte on December 16, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Just as in that gun free zone on Friday, the evil among us was able to perpetrate his evil knowing that no one in that school would be able to defend themselves and that they had been conditioned to not defend themselves.

AZfederalist on December 16, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Perhaps towns can work on more rapid response systems for schools and other priority locations. The principle should have been able to hit a button in her office that got a cop there in 3 minutes or less.

dedalus on December 16, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Apparently, this is Adam Lanza’s Facebook page.

His political beliefs explain the motives for his shooting.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3611_423506811050933_1150852840_n.jpg

Also got fat.

sentinelrules on December 16, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Unsurprising.

Neither anarchism nor communism have respect for the law or the rights of other people. Adherents of both believe violence is justified in pursuance of ‘the cause’ – whether stated cause is universally-declared or defined by an individual or small number of people.

Resist We Much on December 16, 2012 at 5:14 PM

INC on December 16, 2012 at 4:55 PM

I have a list, from earlier this week, but, he would just continue, anyway:) You need to read my offering today.

kingsjester on December 16, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Actually, I don’t care much for adult gang members shooting and killing each other as long as no bystanders are hit. Willingly becoming a violent criminal has consequences., including abrupt death.
But no, it’s not politics of the victims here that matters, it’s not even their age (even though that amplifies the tragedy). It’s the fact that they were completely innocent.
lester on December 16, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Innocent bystanders do get hit all the time, moron, and your glibness about the problem belies your concern about gun violence. Instead of worrying about the comparatively low gun violence rate among white people in white neighborhoods, try first looking to the minority neighborhoods where the problem is really metastasizing.

The Count on December 16, 2012 at 5:26 PM

sentinelrules on December 16, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Uber creepy to think that was exactly how he must have looked to the lost children who were huddled on the floor.

Bishop on December 16, 2012 at 5:37 PM

Loughner, Cho, Holmes, Kleibold, Harris, Lanza and on and on.

The same thing was said after each went on his rampage and, no, I am not referring to the predictable chorus of Absolute Shalls bewailing the fact that Americans have a right to bear arms. No, I am referring to the fact that, after each one, the people that knew them said, “I feel bad for the victims, but I’m not surprised. The dude was a mental case. Always had been.” Yet, the ACLU and other Absolute Shalls will argue that the clearly mentally ill are just exercising another “lifestyle choice” and we can’t make value judgements on which lifestyle is acceptable and normal and which is not. Instead, we have to “be tolerant” and “embrace diversity.” The ACLU will tell us that a mentally ill woman, who defecates in public, is a fierce, brave, and independent soul and we have no right to judge her or deny her “her right” to live amongst us.

Miss Brown, whom court papers identify as Billie Boggs – a false name that she gave when she was hospitalized – was seized last Oct. 28 on Second Avenue at 65th Street, in front of a hot-air vent where, she said, she had lived for more than year.

The state’s highest court, the Court of Appeals, is considering an appeal by Miss Brown of a split lower-court decision that she had been properly picked up by the city. In a series of hearings, city psychiatrists depicted her as a dirty, disheveled and abusive person who lived in her own excrement, engaged in strange behavior and suffered from chronic paranoid schizophrenia, the disorder in which a person gradually loses touch with reality.

Psychiatrists brought in by the New York Civil Liberties Union, which represented Miss Brown, said she either suffered from less serious mental problems or had worked out ”a fearless, independent life style” that worked for her.

Dr. Cournos said yesterday that her professional opinion was that ”Ms. Boggs suffers from a serious mental illness,” either schizophrenia or a manic-depressive disorder, which is characterized by mood swings and inflated self-esteem.

”I believe that Billie Boggs suffers from a mental illness that would benefit from medication and that there are no less-intrusvie treatments that are likely to be effective,” Dr. Cournos said.

BUT (Emphasis mine), she added, forcing Miss Brown to take medication could be harmful, rather than helpful. She noted that Miss Brown, a former drug addict, vehemently opposed the use of medication, had a network of friends to support her, and had the ”partial capacity” to make her own decisions.

”Should she do poorly after discharge and require rehospitalization,” Dr. Cournos said, ”the decision about medication can and, in my opinion, should be reconsidered at that time.”

The psychiatrist who has treated Miss Brown at Bellevue, Dr. Maeve Mahon, has testified in court that she expected Miss Brown to deteriorate in ”three to four days” if she were released, even to a hotel room in a supervised residence in midtown that has been set aside for her.

If the Absolute Shalls had their way, the rights of 100 million, law-abiding Americans, who own guns, would be sacrificed before we ever were allowed to question the “rights” of the mentally ill, who are dangers to themselves and society, to their “fearless, independent lifestyles that work for them.”

Resist We Much on December 16, 2012 at 5:37 PM

I just e-mailed the following to the editor of the Toronto Sun. I do not know the corresponding statistics for the USA.

As you will see from the tables below, from 1979 to 2004 (25 years) there were a total of 97,964 motor vehicle related deaths in Canada. From 1970 to 1996 (27 years) there were a total of 37,399 deaths involving firearms in Canada. However, only 14% or 5236 (183 per year) of these deaths involved homicides. By far, the largest number of deaths involving firearms were deemed to be suicides. Between 1987 and 1996, 79% of all firearm-related deaths were suicides. During this period, approximately 28% of all suicides involved firearms, or an average of 1,030 firearm suicides per year.

The coming weeks following the horrific events in Connecticut will find liberals of all stripes shrieking for tighter and tighter gun controls. These statistics help to put their coming hysterics in perspective. You will also be able to suggest that stricter gun controls might be considered in order when all liberals cease driving motor vehicles, as motor vehicles are far more efficient killers than guns.

pos4thst on December 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM

Have any of those Libs, clamoring for Gun Control, found a gun which pulls its own trigger, yet?

kingsjester on December 16, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Pot can and does induce schizophrenic tendencies in a small subset of YOUNGER folk. Long-term use can make it worse.

where do you find this stuff? The same Governments that say Global Warming is man made?

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 1:47 PM

He’s correct.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2005559,00.html

mnealtx on December 16, 2012 at 5:50 PM

3000 Americans were murdered by men wielding box cutters. Box cutters are still readily available. Why haven’t we banned box cutters, Ms. Feinstein and Mr. Bloomberg? Hmm?

chewmeister on December 16, 2012 at 5:50 PM

… I was smart …
cane_loader on December 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM

What happened?

Capitalist Hog on December 16, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Do Civilians Armed With Guns Ever Capture, Kill, or Otherwise Stop Mass Shooters?
http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/14/do-civilians-armed-with-guns-ever-capture-kill-or-otherwise-stop-mass-shooters/?ModPagespeed=noscript

1. In Pearl, Mississippi in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn’t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state.

2. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania in 1996, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.

3. In Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license). It’s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.

4. In Colorado Springs in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard, and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have.

Southern by choice22 on December 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Since the “press” is talking about ‘gun control’

… why aren’t they talking about ‘Fast and Furious’?

Seven Percent Solution on December 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM

The Newtown, Connecticut school shooting has re ignited the gun control issue. There has been continuous coverage of the this tragedy; now into its 3 day. On 12/11 a man killed two people at the Clackamas Town Center in Portland, Oregon a
nd a person with a CCW permit, 22-year-old Nick Meli, pulled out his firearm, confronted the man and the killer committed suicide; no shots were fired by Mr. Meli. The mall owners do not allow citizens to carry on its property. We will never know how many would have been killed had Mr. Meli not been armed. None of the MSM reports I viewed even mention what Mr. Meli did. To my knowledge, the media has not presented this hero to the American citizenry. Why is that?http://www.examiner.com/article/media-blackout-oregon-mall-shooter-was-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen?amp%3Bno_cache=1355643931

10 years after citizens were disarmed in Great Britain, there are still firearm associated killings, rapes, assaults. But decent people have no way to stop them. Of course, the government wonks will always have their own protection. So in the end, banning guns leads us back to feudalism: the few elites control the arms, resources, and political power; the rest of humanity lives in fear for their lives from both the criminals on the streets and those running the country.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

amr on December 16, 2012 at 6:33 PM

http://www.numberofabortions.com/

Almost 1.2 million abortions in the us this year

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

About 9,500 deaths by handgun in the us in 2011.

OK – we will ban handguns when the left
gives up on abortions.

Net gain would be about 1.2 million people.

redguy on December 16, 2012 at 6:38 PM

kingsjester on December 16, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Thanks, I will.

INC on December 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Indiana man arrested with 47 guns [which he owned for self defense] after threats to local school – Von. I. Meyer reportedly said he would kill “as many people as he could” [for self defense of course]

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/indiana_man_arrested_with_47_guns_after_threats_to_local_school

lester on December 16, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Uh, yeah, and your point would be? The system worked. We nabbed him because we actually paid attention to the threat *he* posed, instead of just focusing on grabbing all guns. That’s how things are supposed to be done.

Good Solid B-Plus on December 16, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Volokh’s list ought to include the Univ TX Austin tower shooter, 1966, who was taken under fire by several citizens, including a professor firing a hunting rifle out his campus office window, and where a ‘civilian’ joined the cops in rushing Whitman at the top of the tower.

rayra on December 16, 2012 at 8:05 PM

AND the fresh report of a CCW holder drawing on / confronting the Portland mall shooter last week. He was apparently the impetus for that shooter killing himself. Which they all seem to do when challenged.

rayra on December 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM

Volokh’s list ought to include the Univ TX Austin tower shooter, 1966, who was taken under fire by several citizens, including a professor firing a hunting rifle out his campus office window, and where a ‘civilian’ joined the cops in rushing Whitman at the top of the tower.

rayra on December 16, 2012 at 8:05 PM

As well as Giffords shooting in AZ more recently, it was ONLY due to a bystander with CCW who stopped the idiot. Not cops, who ALWAYS arrive way too late.

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 8:48 PM

AND the fresh report of a CCW holder drawing on / confronting the Portland mall shooter last week. He was apparently the impetus for that shooter killing himself. Which they all seem to do when challenged.

rayra on December 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM

Sorry, I don’t buy this one. Way too late and way too opportunistic on his part. Where was he the day this happened, interview wise?

And yes, a CCW gun (most likely a short barrel 9mm at best) versus an AR15 .223 NATO, I know who wins this confrontation, wouldn’t even be a contest. I call BS.

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 9:08 PM

this has to be the longest Sunday Talking Heads thread ever. I take full and unequivocal credit.

Slade73 on December 16, 2012 at 9:20 PM

And yes, a CCW gun (most likely a short barrel 9mm at best) versus an AR15 .223 NATO, I know who wins this confrontation, wouldn’t even be a contest. I call BS.

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Within accuracy limit range of the 9mm, why not? Especially if, as reported, the AR had jammed?

mnealtx on December 16, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Within accuracy limit range of the 9mm, why not? Especially if, as reported, the AR had jammed?

mnealtx on December 16, 2012 at 9:33 PM

You mean the jammed gun that was used by the idiot to shoot himself? Yeah, let’s call it a miracle. Instead of eliminating a threat to the shooter. I know CCW size 9mm are GREAT guns, most of them, and yet if my .223 NATO works I will DEFINITELY take my chances against your 9mm in ANY size. Or ANY other handgun, for that matter.

There is something not right with both of these shootings, IMO. The idiot in OR shot himself with an almost a full clip still available and the gun WORKING (how else does one take his life with that same gun?). The idiot in CT shot himself while wearing a BULLET PROOF VEST, which one presumably wears to SAVE one’s life, not to take it. While cops capture a man right next to school in the woods wearing fatigues, “just taking a stroll” as he explained. And let him go without taking any forensic evidence (hand swabs for gun powder residue as anyone with half a brain should have done. And yes, they had enough cause to force the issue).

Something is just not right and VERY SUSPECT with these acts happening at an ever increasing rate with both liberals and news media (sorry, same thing really) ready to go with “ban guns” BS in a ready made reaction. Feinstein has been working on “gun ban law” for the past year as she just indicated. WHY? Based on WHAT? And the more resistant we are to these attempts to limit Second Amendment the more frequent and more gruesome the attacks get.

Feinstein wants to ban guns? She should start with her own stupid state, Kalifornian Khaliphate, where MOST gun related crimes are committed with ILLEGALY obtained guns. Oakland anyone? Compton? Drive bys and all.

Also, I really want someone to compile statistics of this past year’s massacres and list OPENLY political party affiliations of the shooters. I DARE the liberals and news media to list even one CONSERVATIVE gun owner committing these CRAVEN acts, only LIBERALS are so craven to shoot small kids who cannot offer any resistance. COWARDS, in more ways than one.

And then ask Feinstein if she can explain why is it that EACH AND EVERY massacre that took place in the past year, AT THE SAME TIME SHE HAS BEEN WORKING ON HER LAW, was committed by a LIBERAL.

Let’s get an answer to that and only then proceed to other issues.

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Did anyone go to the range today? For me if it’s Sunday it’s time for shooting. I took my AR out today, trying it out at 50-100 yards. My rifle is a South Carolina built Palmetto, with a Geissele SSA trigger and an Eotech 512. There’s got to be maybe millions “assault” rifles in circulation. The Feds can’t stop it at this point. Hacks like Feinstein and Schumer only make people paranoid so they’ll buy more guns and ammo. At some point they might be a threat, but they’re just old ambulance chasers by profession.

\

claudius on December 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM

And yes, a CCW gun (most likely a short barrel 9mm at best) versus an AR15 .223 NATO, I know who wins this confrontation, wouldn’t even be a contest. I call BS.

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 9:08 PM

But the mere known presence of an armed defense changes a situation immensely. Instead of roaming about at will, taking life, suddenly the deranged killer faces the prospect of failure. Of consequences.

Most people will take cover when shot at. And in crazy people, the threat of being caught alive seems to often lead them to commit suicide, which at least ends their killing spree.

hawksruleva on December 17, 2012 at 1:18 AM

Just . . .

OUTLAW MENTAL ILLNESS – NOT GUNS

BigAlSouth on December 17, 2012 at 6:01 AM

My take.

kingsjester on December 17, 2012 at 6:45 AM

First thing regarding this Obama.

Come to U.S. with clean hands.

Tell the truth on Fast and Furious and Bengazie.

Answer our questions on why all these young men who kill of late are all viloent game players prior to the shootings.

Then tell us why not so many back when the draft got young men into a place where they learned disipline, respect for fire arms as well as the safe use thereof.

In our common sense view you and your msm, viloent movies and vido games , together with the no one should be graded on results or punished for bad behavior.

like that, facts

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 17, 2012 at 8:08 AM

This guy was crazy. Does anybody notice that these mass shootings happen where other people aren’t allowed to have guns? Like Aurora?
Waht about the failure of main-streaming this kid in school? What about the breakdown of his family? All these talking heads have broken families and support main-streaming that’s why it will never be discussed.

Redglen on December 17, 2012 at 8:21 AM

There is something not right with both of these shootings, IMO. The idiot in OR shot himself with an almost a full clip still available and the gun WORKING (how else does one take his life with that same gun?). The idiot in CT shot himself while wearing a BULLET PROOF VEST, which one presumably wears to SAVE one’s life, not to take it

riddick on December 16, 2012 at 10:36 PM

I think the point you’re missing is that for someone carrying out a shooting like this, the whole point is to go out in a “blaze of glory” so that your name is immortalized (even if negatively). The bullet proof vest is not to save their life, but to prolong it so that they can take more lives. Once they reach the point where the end is eminent, many will choose to take their own so that they can’t be captured and see justice before the law. In their minds, its all about being in control… even in the ending of their own life.

dominigan on December 17, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Most of these sorts of crime seem to happen when the twentysomeyearold discovers that he has schizophrenia and can look forward to a long life as a crazy person, not a doctor or fireman or Indian chief. Has anyone noticed that we didn’t have nearly this many shootings prior to the late sixties when we radically changed our attitude towards the mentally ill, and started putting them all out on the street?

claudius on December 17, 2012 at 9:21 AM

I refused to watch media accounts of Newtown this weekend. I do note many headlines from our reliably liberal east coast cabal are bleating about more gun control. Same old same old.

DanMan on December 17, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I think the point you’re missing is that for someone carrying out a shooting like this, the whole point is to go out in a “blaze of glory” so that your name is immortalized (even if negatively). The bullet proof vest is not to save their life, but to prolong it so that they can take more lives. Once they reach the point where the end is eminent, many will choose to take their own so that they can’t be captured and see justice before the law. In their minds, its all about being in control… even in the ending of their own life.

dominigan on December 17, 2012 at 9:17 AM

COMMITTING SUICIDE is NOT going out in a “blaze of glory” by any means. Sorry you guys keep missing this very KEY and important FACT.

riddick on December 17, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Most of these sorts of crime seem to happen when the twentysomeyearold discovers that he has schizophrenia and can look forward to a long life as a crazy person, not a doctor or fireman or Indian chief. Has anyone noticed that we didn’t have nearly this many shootings prior to the late sixties when we radically changed our attitude towards the mentally ill, and started putting them all out on the street?

claudius on December 17, 2012 at 9:21 AM

We are actually CREATING mentally ill, from the young age, these days. With our medical community fully complicit and willing to lead the drive. Kids are on medications from the early age, why have school district and teachers deal with a child if one can feed that child a pill that subdues him for the entire day and makes him a drone? Easy way out and no need to teach that child anything about ethics, responsibility and what’s right. Main reason doctors and school districts came up with a new and fashionable ADD crap, anything a child does at that point is then easily “explained”. And yet, many families and then schools ignore teaching DISCIPLE to kids and let them what they want any time they want.

In a “ONLY ME” society one should not expect any other results than the ones we saw in CO, OR, AZ and CT. And plenty of other smaller examples across the land on daily basis. And the only treatment should be teaching DISCIPLINE and ETHICS in home and school, from early age.

riddick on December 17, 2012 at 2:28 PM

You mean the jammed gun that was used by the idiot to shoot himself? Yeah, let’s call it a miracle.

I was *completely* unaware that once a gun jammed, it was jammed forever- thanks for pointing that out for all of us.

Instead of eliminating a threat to the shooter. I know CCW size 9mm are GREAT guns, most of them, and yet if my .223 NATO works I will DEFINITELY take my chances against your 9mm in ANY size. Or ANY other handgun, for that matter.

Ok – I choose a coat closet for the venue. You’re at sling arms and I’m concealed carrying IWB.

Back to you for the next oversimplified statement about efficacy.

There is something not right with both of these shootings, IMO. The idiot in OR shot himself with an almost a full clip still available and the gun WORKING (how else does one take his life with that same gun?). The idiot in CT shot himself while wearing a BULLET PROOF VEST, which one presumably wears to SAVE one’s life, not to take it.

“Blaze of glory” syndrome – they want people to *remember* them, and they can’t do that if they get taken out *too* early.

mnealtx on December 17, 2012 at 3:51 PM

Wow, talk about delusional.

Once the idiot got the gun going again, and facing someone who has not even DRAWN yet. Hmmm… Shoot himself or the guy who made eye contact with him. Yeah, I’d be scared, too. Details seem to still escape you.

And all of this on some guy’s say so, for some reason everyone seems to avoid, where was this CCW on the day of shooting? The day after?

This was a MALL, not a closet. Again, its the small details /s

SUICIDE is not “blaze of glory”. No matter how you want to spin it.

Anyway…

riddick on December 17, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Wow, talk about delusional.

But enough about you.

Once the idiot got the gun going again, and facing someone who has not even DRAWN yet. Hmmm… Shoot himself or the guy who made eye contact with him. Yeah, I’d be scared, too. Details seem to still escape you.

Well, since you were evidently an eyewitness, why don’t you tell us just how it all went down? Maybe you can explain why you didn’t see the shooter retreating from where he was confronted to the staircase where he ended up shooting himself? Maybe you can explain why, as an eyewitness, you missed Meli actually drawing his gun but refraining from shooting since he didn’t have a clear backstop? Finally, you can explain why *you* didn’t take care of things all by your bad self, what with being there to be able to describe it all – since you’re able to talk so much crap about Meli’s actions, I’m sure that a little thing like innocent bystanders in your line of fire wouldn’t affect a hero like YOU at all.

Or, you could quit talking out of your ass.

SUICIDE is not “blaze of glory”. No matter how you want to spin it.

You’re a psychiatrist, too? Amazing!

mnealtx on December 17, 2012 at 6:08 PM

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