Shooter identified in Connecticut, may have targeted his teacher mother; Update: Shooter killed himself, reports of missing girlfriend; Update: Shooter misidentified; Update: “Personality disorder”? Update: Mother shot at home? Update: Guns legally bought by mother

posted at 3:01 pm on December 14, 2012 by Mary Katharine Ham

CNN reports the suspect is Ryan Lanza, a white male in his early 20s. He died in the school, but it’s unclear how he died. CBS News is reporting he’s from the Newtown area, his mother had been living in the area, and some students killed may have been students of his mother, who taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

[Updated at 2:11 p.m. ET] CNN’s Susan Candiotti has just reported that a law enforcement official tells her the suspect is named Ryan Lanza and he is in his 20s.

I will not be showing a picture of the shooter because it appears that many, many news outlets and thousands of tweeters distributed the photo of the first Ryan Lanza they found on Facebook, and it was not the correct Ryan Lanza. Tweets a man claiming to be the friend of the incorrectly identified Lanza:

https://twitter.com/Fletch788/status/279668466150166528

I’ll just stand by on this because it’s all very uncertain and I really do not want to accuse anyone other than the actual Ryan Lanza of committing this horrible crime.

I want to be careful about all of this, because details remain hazy, but I will just tell you who’s reporting what and reinforce that reports are preliminary and may change.

CBS News says it has confirmed that Lanza’s mother was a teacher at the school and was killed, but it’s unclear whether she died on school grounds. There were reports earlier in the day that his mother might have been killed in a home connected to the shooter, but CBS is now reporting there is a body at the home connected with the suspect.

The NYT:

The gunman, who was believed to be in his 20s, walked into a classroom where his mother was a teacher. He shot and killed her and then shot 18 students in the classroom. He also shot seven other adults.The gunman then killed himself inside the school. The shooting ranks among the worst in recent United States history.

Update: From local news in Newtown:

The gunman delilberately went to Sandy Hook Elementary School with the intention of killing his mother who was a kindergarten teacher at the school, according to NBC Channel 4.

According to the report, the gunman left a Hoboken, NJ home where there apparently is a victim. It is believed that the gunman then went to Sandy Hook where his mother worked as a teacher and began shooting near the principal’s office. The shooter then went to his mother’s kindergarten classroom and killed her and her students, according to the report.

Update: AP reports police have Ryan Lanza’s brother in custody, but unclear whether it’s just to gather information or as connected in some way.

Update: The President will speak at 3:15 p.m. at the White House, addressing the nation.

Update: With the shooter’s body inside the school, police found two handguns. One was a Sig Sauer, the other a Glock 9mm. In his vehicle, police found a .223 caliber rifle, according to CBS News reporting.

Update: Livestream of the president’s statement will be here. Connecticut Gov. Malloy will speak this afternoon, also. Flags have been ordered to half-staff at the Capitol:

Update: Fox reports they have a source saying both the shooter’s mother and father are dead.

A source told Fox News that Lanza’s mother and father, who were divorced, were also killed. It’s not clear whether Lanza’s mother, a teacher at the school, was killed there or at another location.

Update: AP reports an official saying Lanza’s girlfriend and another friend are missing.

The official also said Ryan Lanza’s girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the official said the suspect is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Update: In a second press conference, Gov. Malloy said “the perpetrator of the crime is dead as is an individual who the perpetrator lived with.”

Lt. Paul Vance of the Connecticut State Police reported that 18 children were pronounced dead at the scene, two at local hospitals, and six adults were killed. There was one person injured. Vance also said there’s a secondary crime scene in Newtown with an additional “adult victim” at that scene.

Update (AP): There’s a major conflict in news reports right now. According to the New York Post, the shooter’s name is Adam Lanza, not Ryan. Ryan is his brother and is being questioned by police but, per the Post, is not a suspect. The AP, however, says it is indeed Ryan who’s the shooter and that his brother is the one who’s being questioned. Needless to say, treat every last bit of news about this story as unconfirmed for the next several hours.

And judging from my Twitter feed, it’d be wise to stay away from social media altogether.

Update (AP): At the White House, Carney wisely decides to punt the inevitable gun-control debate to next week.

Update (AP): Looks like the Post might have been right about the shooter’s identity. Cops now say the shooter was 20 and that his older brother is being questioned. Adam Lanza is the younger brother according to the NYP.

Update (AP): Fearless prediction, as Twitter fills up with angry liberals pounding the table about gun control: As the story comes out, we’ll find out that the guy responsible displayed many, many signs of mental illness over the past year or so and that they were all but ignored by virtually everyone around him.

Update (AP): Yep, even the AP is now naming Adam, not Ryan, Lanza as the shooter. If Ryan’s blameless in all this, his newly hellish existence got a bit more hellish today thanks to the media.

Reuters claims that another Lanza brother is dead at the family home.

Update (AP): The AP says three guns were found at the scene: A Glock pistol, a Sig Sauer pistol, and a .223 rifle.

Update (AP): This cuts to it:

And this:

Update (AP): Ace is right that the typical mass murderer is a mentally-ill sad-sack loser who’s bad at work, bad with women, and who finally snaps in frustration at his own momentous loserdom. Usually it’s a break-up or a pink slip that sets him off and usually the targets are strangers. Not this time, though: The shooter’s just 20 years old and he went to the trouble of driving to his mother’s school to kill her — and 20 kids — after allegedly killing other family members at home. That’s an odd combination of specific and random targeting. What exactly was the crux of this guy’s grudge?

Update (AP): For what it’s worth:

Ryan Lanza, 24, brother of gunman Adam Lanza, 20, tells authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a “personality disorder.” Neighbors described the younger man to ABC as “odd” and displaying characteristics associated with obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Update (AP): The list. Imagine.

“The teachers wrote down the names of all the children,’’ said Monsignor. Robert Weiss, the pastor at St. Rose of Lima in Newtown. “The ones who were unaccounted for, those parents went to another room and wrote their names on a list.”

“It was around, obviously,” he added, “the number that passed away.”

Update (AP): Nightmarish details from People magazine, who spoke to a mother of one of the students at the school:

According to the woman, the shooter, who is confirmed dead at the scene “went into the [principal's] office, started arguing, and he killed people in the office,” before going into a classroom.

Another parent visiting the school at the time tells PEOPLE he “could hear shots in the hall and glass breaking.” And an NPR interview with one of the school’s teachers revealed that the school’s PA system was on the whole time, amplifying the shots throughout the school.

Update (AP): Against all odds, the shooting continues to get more bizarre:

The shooter, who sources identified as Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother in the face at their home in Newtown, Conn., then went to nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School where she taught and gunned down her entire class, according to sources…

Vance also said that a “deceased adult” was found at a “secondary crime scene,” though he declined to elaborate.

The thinking until now was that he had some sort of insane grudge against mom that led him to follow her to school, kill her in the classroom, and then open fire on the kids around her as collateral damage. Not so, if Fox’s sources are right. His mother was already dead at home before anything happened at the school. For whatever lunatic reason, after killing her he felt obliged to get in his car, drive down there, and then start shooting at kindergarteners.

The other mystery is who the “deceased adult” was at the other “secondary crime scene.” Reuters reported earlier that it was Lanza’s brother, but cops now say no. Who was it?

Update (AP): Info on the guns from Fox News, per Johnny Dollar:

Update (AP): CNN backs up Fox’s report that the guns were legally purchased by Lanza’s mother, and claims that the rifle was found in the trunk of a car parked at the school. Did he only use the two pistols during his attack, or did he have the rifle out at some point before returning it to the car? And if he didn’t have it out, why not? Seems like, if you’re of a mind to commit a mass shooting, you’d want to use the biggest weapon you have.

Like Greg Pollowitz, I’m eager to hear the progressive policy solution to a nutcase stealing his law-abiding mother’s legally-bought guns.

Update (AP): I’m clicking around on Connecticut’s judicial website of gun regulations to see how many violations this guy is probably guilty of under current law. After a cursory five-minute search, I’ve got at least 10. One: Assuming mom didn’t lend him the two pistols and rifle, he’s guilty of three counts of theft. Two: He’s guilty of three counts of possessing a weapon on school grounds. Three: He may be guilty of two counts of criminal possession of a pistol or revolver. Lanza reportedly had a “checkered past” and had been a “troubled youth for most of his life.” We don’t know how checkered because his juvenile records are sealed, but if he was “convicted as delinquent for the commission of a serious juvenile offense” then that’s two more violations, one for possessing each pistol. Four: Per NBC, concealed-carry permits aren’t granted to anyone in Connecticut under the age of 21. That means two more violations for the 20-year-old Lanza for carrying the two pistols. (You don’t need a permit to carry a rifle.) Oh, and if Wikipedia is accurate, Connecticut police are fully entitled to seize weapons in someone’s possession without a warrant if they have probable cause that the suspect is mentally unstable or likely to commit a crime. Go surf around on the gun-laws site and see what else you find. There’s probably stuff I missed.

The obvious objection to all of this is that none of these laws would have kept the guns out of Lanza’s hands. They’re all useful in prosecuting a killer after the fact, not in stopping him beforehand. In that case, what’s the solution? You can’t ban Nancy Lanza from owning a pistol; she has a constitutional right, per the Supreme Court’s Heller decision. Ban Glocks and Sig Sauers, then? Ban any family from owning more than one weapon? Ban any family from owning a weapon if the state determines that a member of the family seems a little too eccentric for comfort?

Update (AP): Mary Katharine e-mails with thoughts:

From earlier, in the second presser, Lt. Vance said two handguns were found w the body and the rifle in the car.

A couple points. If you were of a mind to go into a school w guns concealed somehow–as he might have, considering this started apparently w an altercation in the office instead of going straight to the classroom–you’d likely wanna just carry the two handguns. The rifle would limit mobility and couldn’t be concealed and the handguns would give you plenty of rounds and portability.

Also of interest, if the mom’s rifle was indeed legally purchased, that means it’s NOT an “assault weapon” unless she had it purchased and registered pre-1993. CT bans “assault weapons,” so both that fact and the fact hers likely wasn’t one makes the call for Assault Weapons Ban reinstatement pretty tendentious, right?

Update (AP): Good lord. Lanza’s father learned what his son had done … from a reporter:

“Is there something I can do for you?” he said.

When the reporter told Lanza his address had been linked to the shooting in Newtown, Conn., on the other side of Fairfield County, he “took the news as a blow — his face turning from patient to surprised and horrified” before declining to comment, rolling up his window and driving into the garage, according to the Hearst Connecticut report.


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Their early twenties is about the time they would discover they are fighting a losing battle with schizophrenia.

claudius on December 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Okay, I am linking on all these pages. The worse school massacre in U.S. history. Gun control wouldn’t have helped.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2012 at 11:16 AM

KOOLAID2 on December 15, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Biased, opinionated and wrong, a winning combination.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Their early twenties is about the time they would discover they are fighting a losing battle with schizophrenia.

claudius on December 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Then there’s this from last year:

A new study examining data from 20,000 patients with a psychotic illness has found that the drug cannabis can be instrumental in triggering mental illness such as psychosis or schizophrenia earlier in patients.

Choom, Choom, Choom…

Fallon on December 15, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Can we start there?

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Nope.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Their early twenties is about the time they would discover they are fighting a losing battle with schizophrenia.

claudius on December 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM

>>This<< And….to compound it,being of legal age,it is nearly impossible to get them help until they do something to show that they need it. The laws liberals put in place to "empower" them are the very laws that end up killing them and the people around them.

hoosierma on December 15, 2012 at 11:21 AM

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

No. And stop exploiting the murder of school children for your delusional wet dream.

Kenosha Kid on December 15, 2012 at 11:22 AM

All of the incorrect information that was released and later had to be retracted and/or corrected, is a pure and simple indictment of FNC and all of the other outlets who sacrifice accuracy for speed in the effort to get that scoop.

Forget the necessity to be the “first” and instead insist on being correct. At this point, I don’t believe any of you anymore.

Mr. Grump on December 15, 2012 at 11:24 AM

NO ONE NEEDS OWN AN ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPON DESIGNED FOR WAR!

Can we start there?

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

What does this have to do with yesterday’s tragedy?

CW on December 15, 2012 at 11:25 AM

What does this have to do with yesterday’s tragedy?

CW on December 15, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Never let a crisis go to waste? Numbnuts never pay attention to the facts.

VegasRick on December 15, 2012 at 11:28 AM

NO ONE NEEDS OWN AN ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPON DESIGNED FOR WAR!

Can we start there?

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Y’mean one that is selective fire? Or one that has an adjustable stock, a flash suppresor, a handgrip, is semiauto, and is painted black? Or, even one that has all of the above? The Colt 1911 handgun was designed for war and has the dreaded semiauto firing mechanism. Why isn’t it also an assault weapon?

a capella on December 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Deinstitutionalization was based on the principle that severe mental illness should be treated in the least restrictive setting. As further defined by President Jimmy Carter’s Commission on Mental Health, this ideology rested on “the objective of maintaining the greatest degree of freedom, self-determination, autonomy, dignity, and integrity of body, mind, and spirit for the individual while he or she participates in treatment or receives services.”

Hmmm…

Fallon on December 15, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Deinstitutionalization was based on the principle that severe mental illness should be treated in the least restrictive setting. As further defined by President Jimmy Carter’s Commission on Mental Health, this ideology rested on “the objective of maintaining the greatest degree of freedom, self-determination, autonomy, dignity, and integrity of body, mind, and spirit for the individual while he or she participates in treatment or receives services.”

Hmmm…

Fallon on December 15, 2012 at 11:32 AM

And, much to my everlasting embarrassment, this policy provided a very lucrative living to a number of attorneys around the country, who routinely filed suit seeking to establish unrestrictive group home environments for the mentally ill around the country.

totherightofthem on December 15, 2012 at 11:36 AM

This is our gun-sick society now.

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 8:33 AM

We’ve had guns for thousands of years. They’re not the problem.

What has changed is that society itself has morally degenerated. And your side of the aisle is solely responsible for that development.

F-

Del Dolemonte on December 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM

I SUPPORT the right to own firearms, but such a right cannot be unlimited.

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

The second part of your sentence directly contradicts the first part of your sentence.

And you expect us to believe you?

Del Dolemonte on December 15, 2012 at 11:58 AM

People who do not secure their weapons around mentally disturbed relatives are dangerously irresponsible.

The mother of this maniac failed everyone involved.

A shame she and he weren’t the only ones to pay for this folly.

profitsbeard on December 15, 2012 at 12:09 PM

So reportedly Lanza’s juvenile records are sealed–if only Obamuh had gotten them unsealed!

stukinIL4now on December 15, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Perhaps, ladies and gentleman, the burden of responsibility in the aftermath of a senseless massacre such as the one yesterday, needs to be singularly placed on the individual who planned and committed the heinous act, instead of the focus being placed upon the instrument he used.

After all, when have you ever witnessed, or even heard of, a gun pulling its own trigger?

My take.

kingsjester on December 15, 2012 at 12:19 PM

This is our gun spiritually-sick society now.

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 8:33 AM

Fixed it for you moron.

labrat on December 15, 2012 at 12:22 PM

We’ve had guns for thousands of years.

Del Dolemonte on December 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Thanks. I learned something.

Shy Guy on December 15, 2012 at 12:37 PM

This is our gun-sick society now.

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 8:33 AM

What do the Columbine shooters, Cho, Loughner, Holmes, Lanza, and almost all of these rampage killers have in common?

They were psychotic and exhibited signs of the serious and dangerous nature of their mental break long before they picked up a gun. When gun control advocates start proposing fundamental reforms to how we deal with the mentally ill, who are clear and present dangers to society, then I’ll pay attention to them. When the left put the rights of 20 innocent children to live over the “rights” of a “nut job,” then I’ll believe that they honestly want to prevent these types of shootings and aren’t seeking to collectively punish the law-abiding for the actions of those that they, themselves, have enabled.

Common sense is quite nearly illegal nowadays and it’s certainly unfashionable in the Obama Age. So the usual liberal dingbats — including the ACLU types who assured us it was “a fearless, independent life style” for a crazy woman to defecate in public on the streets of Manahattan — are telling us we need more gun control.

“Chris Rock was right: ‘Whatever happened to ‘crazy’? . . . What? You can’t be crazy no more? Did we eliminate ‘crazy’ from the dictionary?’”

Resist We Much on December 15, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Eighteen years of American dream,
He saw that his brother had sworn on the wall.
He hung up his eyelids and ran down the hall,
His mother had told him a trip was a fall,
And don’t mention babies at all.
Did you see him, did you see him?
Did you see him in the river?
He was there to wave to you.
Could you tell that the empty quivered,
Brown skinned Indian on the banks
That were crowded and narrow,
Held a broken arrow?

J_Crater on December 15, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Lanza reportedly tried to buy rifle, was denied

NBC’s Pete Williams reports that Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza attempted to purchase a rifle earlier this week at a sporting goods store in Danbury, Conn.

So, he stole them. Obviously, more gun control would have prevented him from stealing guns from legal gun owners – his mum or someone else – because, you know, burglary laws prevent burglary.

/

Resist We Much on December 15, 2012 at 12:48 PM

President Barack Obama’s call for “meaningful action”

If he were a decent man, alas, he’d have simply said “I express my deep regrets and condolences, for my family and the country. Our thoughts and prayers are with the greiving families”.

This is a charlatan of the first degree. The bodies were not even cold and many, him included, had politics on their minds. To Hades with you all, Bloomberg first. You are animals, hyenas.

chump, and what a perfect nom, you fool. Kennedy killed a woman in a car.

Airplaned occasionally fall from the sky.

Schadenfreude on December 15, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Airplanes

Schadenfreude on December 15, 2012 at 1:03 PM

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Why do you need a house/apartment? Go live in a cave. Also, go eat the wild berries.

Schadenfreude on December 15, 2012 at 1:04 PM

President Barack Obama’s call for “meaningful action”

If he were a decent man, alas, he’d have simply said “I express my deep regrets and condolences, for my family and the country. Our thoughts and prayers are with the grieving families”.

This is a charlatan of the first degree. The bodies were not even cold and many, him included, had politics on their minds. To Hades with you all, Bloomberg first. You are animals, hyenas.

Sorry for the reverse quotes

Schadenfreude on December 15, 2012 at 1:06 PM

Perhaps a few more womens programs, or a few more womens studies programs or another breast cancer awareness weekend in the NFL to save womyn might help what seems to be an increasing cry for help from the male portion of our population.

Someone get my point?

rickyricardo on December 15, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Connecticut shooting suspect had earlier ‘altercation’ with school staff, state and federal officials tell @NBCNews

48 mins ago from usnews.nbcnews.com by editor

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15926718-newtown-gunman-had-altercation-with-school-staff-day-before-massacre?lite

http://www.breakingnews.com/

canopfor on December 15, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Connecticut non-profits collecting donations for families of victims in Newtown shooting; details at @nhregister

1 min ago from http://www.nhregister.com by editor

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2012/12/15/news/doc50ccad0f987e7873533209.txt

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/school-shooting-in-newtown-connecticut
================

canopfor on December 15, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Photo: Third grader Maleah Ali holds a poster in honor of 1st grade teacher who was killed – @pswebilius

3 mins ago from twitter.com by editor

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/school-shooting-in-newtown-connecticut

canopfor on December 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM

chumpThreads

Enemy.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 1:39 PM

NO ONE NEEDS OWN AN ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPON DESIGNED FOR WAR!

Can we start there?

chumpThreads

No one needs brain-dead liberals like yourself. I say we start there first.

xblade on December 15, 2012 at 1:56 PM

So, let’s see. OR mall shooter was reported as having the gun malfunction, THE reason he was able to take more lives. And yet, somehow, mysteriously, he was then able to kill himself. What that same malfunctioning gun.

CT shooter, also somehow finds it in himself to wear bullet proof vest (to protect HIS OWN LIFE), and yet somehow also kills himself in the carnage. Why then bullet proof vest?

And the communists are now immediately in full on mode to ban guns. Hmmm… Am I the only one thinking the 2 idiots did not really kill themselves, but were rather agitated by some third party to the point of committing these cowardly crimes and then exterminated on the spot to cover the tracks?

Jammed gun is used to miraculously function and to kill one shooter. Bullet proof vest simply does not jive with taking the other’s life willingly. Useful idiots?

riddick on December 15, 2012 at 2:00 PM

THE reason he was NOT able to take more lives (above)

riddick on December 15, 2012 at 2:00 PM


************************* ALERT ***********************************

The Associated Press ‏@AP

BREAKING: Okla. student, 18, arrested in alleged shooting and bombing plot at Bartlesville high school: http://apne.ws/WewAec -RJJ

Okla. teen arrested in school shooting plot
Dec. 15 1:58 PM EST

BARTLESVILLE, Okla. (AP) — An Oklahoma high school student is in custody on charges he plotted to bomb and shoot students at the Bartlesville High School auditorium on the same day 26 people were shot and killed at an elementary school in Connecticut.

Police arrested 18-year-old Sammie Eaglebear Chavez at about 4:30 a.m. Friday after learning of the alleged plot Thursday.

An arrest affidavit says Chavez tried to convince other students to help him lure students into the auditorium, chain the doors shut and start shooting. The Tulsa World reports that authorities say Chavez threatened to kill students who didn’t help.

The Bartlesville Examiner-Enterprise reports Chavez planned to detonate bombs at the doors as police arrived.

The school district says students were never in danger. Chavez is being held on $1 million bond.

canopfor on December 15, 2012 at 2:14 PM

MOAR BREAST CANCER AWARENESS!!!!!!!

rickyricardo on December 15, 2012 at 2:35 PM

How to stop a massacre:
http://shorelinecaucus.com/archives/3714

valentine on December 15, 2012 at 2:50 PM

This is our gun-sick society now.

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 8:33 AMM

Actually, chumpThreads is correct…we are a gun-sick society.

Liberals constantly malign and impugn individuals who want to build a society of morals where people care about each other. chumpThreads pretends to be outraged but in reality, he’s enjoying this tragedy so that he can force his views upon everybody else.

While people like chumpThreads dance on the children’s graves, let’s not forget how many children have been killed in Chicago, home of one of the strictest gun laws in the country. No leftist mourns for their deaths because there is no political benefit from those tragedies.

Any attempt to create strong, loving families where children learn right and wrong are attacked. Liberal Hollywood creates movies that attack what is right, liberal singers praise cop killings and liberal journalists intentionally lie about the perpetrators to make them appear what they are not. Perhaps this shooter was a “white latino?” Hello, NBC?

The left reminds us that we can never legislate morality with the exception of gun control laws, of course.

Liberals teach people that violence is acceptable when it is politically expedient. For example, how come we haven’t heard that “war is never the answer” since 2008, hmm?

Can we correlate the rise in gun violence with the rise of liberal policies? I say we should. The left (who claims is smarter than the rest of us) have never produced any type of solution to this crisis.

Another example. Look at the unusually high number of atheists who have commented on this thread and their so-called “Christian” supporters. Why now and not on other threads? It’s certainly not by accident, it’s because that leftist atheists want to destroy any attempt to encourage the understanding of right and wrong. How many atheists can produce evidence that they suffered physically or emotionally as a result of the pro-God comments? Answer: ZERO! But, they need to do what they can to destroy rather than to support. If somebody wanted to pray to Zeus and Apollo for this tragedy they would be a fool but no Christian would suffer because of their prayers. Remember, these “pro-science” atheists claim that they have evidence that God doesn’t exist. Nice contradiction there, guys!

I’ll wait for the rabid responses, knowing full well that the responses won’t include any type of recommendation. Knock yourselves out because your reactions are what is considered hate. Prove us right.

Kingfisher on December 15, 2012 at 3:10 PM

My God,

Can we PLEASE just pray for the victims and there families?
Christmas Angels everyone of them.

mmcnamer1 on December 15, 2012 at 3:27 PM

NBC is reporting that the mother was a survivalist in fear of the economic collapse and avid gun collector. She took all her kids(including the nutty one) to a shooting range for years.

stingray9813 on December 15, 2012 at 3:28 PM

That’s why I’m pro-choice. I believe the pregnant woman should have the right to make her own reproductive decisions.
 
chumpThreads on August 22, 2012 at 8:56 PM

 

I SUPPORT the right to own firearms, but such a right cannot be unlimited. Such a right cannot be exempt from even the most reasonable and elementary constraints.
 
NO ONE NEEDS OWN AN ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPON DESIGNED FOR WAR!
 
Can we start there?
 
chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

 
Compare/contrast.

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 3:46 PM

These are sad days indeed…
-

Perhaps a few more womens programs, or a few more womens studies programs or another breast cancer awareness weekend in the NFL to save womyn might help what seems to be an increasing cry for help from the male portion of our population.

Someone get my point?

rickyricardo on December 15, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Iron John: A Book About Men
I use to go to men’s retreats every year, more than one a year for a decade. This book was introduced at one of those and my friends and I read it and discussed it for years after. We even passed around an audio version…

RalphyBoy on December 15, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Among children ages 1 to 4, most drownings occur in home swimming pools. Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects) Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes.

hawkdriver on December 15, 2012 at 12:48 PM

There are local safety requirements and insurance costs for pools.

dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 4:02 PM

There are local safety requirements and insurance costs for pools.
 
dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 4:02 PM

 
I, like you, fully agree that even highly micromanaged and extremely specific local regulations aren’t capable of preventing the vast majority of tragedies.
 
That was your point, right?

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Have you wondered why, in such a target rich environment as a suburban shopping mall two weeks before Christmas, the shooter at the Clackamas Town Center only managed to kill two people before dousing his own lights? Part of the reason was a dodgy gun. But as is being reported by kgw.com, part was also due to the fact that, gun-free zone or not, Jacob Roberts was confronted by Nick Meli who was armed and has a concealed carry permit. No, he didn’t fire because he feared hitting an innocent person behind Roberts if he missed. But Roberts knew Meli was there: “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.” David Frum was unavailable for comment.

Akzed on December 15, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year – a rise of 89 per cent.

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.

In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.
~
If you need to be told, it’s basically illegal in England and Wales to own a handgun.

Akzed on December 15, 2012 at 5:28 PM

Here’s an Israeli teacher with her class. Now the rifle slung over her shoulder.

Akzed on December 15, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Gun control laws and bans have the perverse effect of disarming the law-abiding and leaving only the lawbreakers armed, which — not so “unpredictably” nor “unsurprisingly” — leads to more, not less crime.

Resist We Much on December 15, 2012 at 5:49 PM

ME reports that each child was shot 3 – 7 times.

davidk on December 15, 2012 at 6:01 PM

If you need to be told, it’s basically illegal in England and Wales to own a handgun.

Akzed on December 15, 2012 at 5:28 PM

facts do not matter … it is how you feel … at least for a liberal

conservative tarheel on December 15, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Closing down hospitals and homes for mentally ill people has caused a lot of people a lot of pain. Most of the homeless are mentally ill as are the rampage shooters. We need to focus on identifying real mental health issues not guns.

The inmates are not running the asylum, they are running the streets.

Fallon on December 15, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Exactly. I have a relative, not a close relative, who has mental problems, schizophrenic and bipolar. At one point a few years ago, he was suicidal and who knows what else, he went to the ER and begged them to admit him into some kind of inpatient mental treatment. There was no place to put him, they kept him a few hours and released him, despite the fact that based on what he was telling them, he was at the very least a danger to himself. Nothing happened that time, but eventually he beat up his wife and almost killed her. He is in prison now, and will be for most of the rest of his life, which is good because he’s dangerous. But too bad we wait until crazy people hurt someone before we lock them up. It might be better to put them into a mental hospital before they hurt someone. Of course, we barely have any mental hospitals anymore.

mbs on December 15, 2012 at 6:10 PM

I, like you, fully agree that even highly micromanaged and extremely specific local regulations aren’t capable of preventing the vast majority of tragedies.

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 4:09 PM

It’s a trade-off. Regulations save some lives, while other people continue to die in pools or in automobiles. Perhaps there are additional regulations or technical product innovations that can reduce deaths due to guns, autos or pools at a reasonable cost. Perhaps not. Perhaps the status quo is the best trade-off.

dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 6:29 PM

NO ONE NEEDS OWN AN ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPON DESIGNED FOR WAR!

Can we start there?

chumpThreads on December 15, 2012 at 10:13 AM

No one “needs” own a pool. Can we at least start there?

Among children ages 1 to 4, most drownings occur in home swimming pools. Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects) Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes.

hawkdriver on December 15, 2012 at 12:48 PM

According to the department of transportation, in 2009, the latest year I could find, there were 33,800 automobile deaths in the U.S.

Can we at least start there?

STL_Vet on December 15, 2012 at 6:42 PM

My first rifle was an o-6. I was 13. I’ve had guns all my life. never once had the inclination to shoot anyone. I did chop down a small tree with a .357 mag once–I’ll not tell a lie.

What reason is there to prevent me from owning an assault style rifle?

I am a loner–ooooo, scary.

davidk on December 15, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Closing down hospitals and homes for mentally ill people has caused a lot of people a lot of pain. Most of the homeless are mentally ill as are the rampage shooters. We need to focus on identifying real mental health issues not guns.

The inmates are not running the asylum, they are running the streets.

Fallon on December 15, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Now enhanced by liberal pot smoking laws. Why not speed up dementia, its good, right?

riddick on December 15, 2012 at 6:58 PM

If we had universal health care rationing, gun control, free abortions, and legalized marijuana none of this would have happened.

SparkPlug on December 15, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Will somebody please shut Geraldo the eff up.

BallisticBob on December 15, 2012 at 8:12 PM

Regulations save some lives…
Perhaps there are additional regulations…
Perhaps not. Perhaps the status quo is the best trade-off.
 
dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 6:29 PM

 
The status quo being, undeniably, the gun-free-zones regulatory fad established in the ’90s.
 
The same status quo “trade-off” that got us here.
 
And each time there is an incident, that status quo and its “additional regulations” further prevent law-abiding teachers, coaches, or principals from having any legal access whatsoever to their hidden, silent, secured, and safe defensive weapons.
 
And those additional regulations have again given us more dead children.
 
I’m tired of the status quo and the funerals it forces on innocents and their parents. Let’s try something new, shall we?

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 9:09 PM

And each time there is an incident, that status quo and its “additional regulations” further prevent law-abiding teachers, coaches, or principals from having any legal access whatsoever to their hidden, silent, secured, and safe defensive weapons.

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 9:09 PM

With luck those teachers will do a better job of securing their weapons than Lanza’s mom did.

dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 9:35 PM

And each time there is an incident, that status quo and its “additional regulations” further prevent law-abiding teachers, coaches, or principals from having any legal access whatsoever to their hidden, silent, secured, and safe defensive weapons.
 
rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 9:09 PM

 
With luck those teachers will do a better job of securing their weapons than Lanza’s mom did.
 
dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 9:35 PM

 
They weren’t at school, which was following regulations.
 
Until they were. Illegally. And no one else’s were. Legally.
 
See the point?

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 9:45 PM

See the point?

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Yeah, I see the merit of the point. Though, the mom’s legal guns didn’t protect her. Likely, they were used against her. If teachers bring guns to school they can potentially provide protection, but they also place weapons within the reach of students. Securing them away from nuts who seem like Lanza (most high schools have at least one) becomes the challenge–probably requiring some regulations.

dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Securing them away from nuts who seem like Lanza (most high schools have at least one) becomes the challenge–probably requiring some regulations.
 
dedalus on December 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM

 
We’re back to your pool argument.
 

I, like you, fully agree that even highly micromanaged and extremely specific local regulations aren’t capable of preventing the vast majority of tragedies.
 
That was your point, right?
 
rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 4:09 PM

 
Regulations regarding firearms storage already exist.
 
Regulations regarding minors’ access to firearms already exist.
 
Regulations against having a pistol on school grounds already exist.
 
Regulations against a minor having a pistol already exist.
 
Regulations against shooting children already exist.
 
Regulations against a minor shooting children with a pistol already exist.
 
Regulations against a minor shooting children with a pistol on school grounds already exist.
 
Ad nauseum.
 
What’s left? Making it legal for a principal with a carry permit to have a pistol in his office safe. Making it legal for the chemistry teacher to keep her pistol in her locked Camry’s glove compartment.
 
Would it save all twenty of the little souls we lost? No. Could it save some? Yes.
 
So we definitely shouldn’t do it.

rogerb on December 15, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Last time I checked. Murder is a crime.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.

Akzed on December 15, 2012 at 5:28 PM

One fact your post implies but doesn’t spell out completely is that gun crime in England rose quickly and radically following the implementation of stricter gun laws.

This is just like the way historical data is ignored that shows that government revenue decreases following higher taxes.

And statistics are ignored that show that global temperatures have remained flat (over the last two decades) even as greenhouse emissions have increased.

Liberals don’t care about facts, statistics and data. They just want to feel good.

Burke on December 15, 2012 at 11:57 PM

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