Quotes of the day

posted at 8:44 pm on December 14, 2012 by Allahpundit

Obama cited Scripture to call for healing, and said “we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.” He called the shooting a “heinous crime” against “beautiful little kids.”

“We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years, and each time I hear the news I react not as a president but as anyone else would, as a parent,” Obama said. “And that was especially true today.”

***

What is “meaningful action”? Obama has explained this before: He wants a new assault weapons ban. My colleague Allison Benedikt is among those who wanted more from Obama, but that’s not how this works. To use two examples without conflating the scales of the tragedies: LBJ didn’t call for the Civil Rights Act on November 22, 1963, and George W. Bush didn’t ask for any military response on 9/11. Day one is when you tell people whether you’re going to pick up the cards. Showing those cards, that comes later.

***

Bloomberg’s full statement:

“With all the carnage from gun violence in our country, it’s still almost impossible to believe that a mass shooting in a kindergarten class could happen. It has come to that. Not even kindergarteners learning their A,B,Cs are safe. We heard after Columbine that it was too soon to talk about gun laws. We heard it after Virginia Tech. After Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek. And now we are hearing it again. For every day we wait, 34 more people are murdered with guns. Today, many of them were five-year olds. President Obama rightly sent his heartfelt condolences to the families in Newtown. But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem. Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before. What we have not seen is leadership – not from the White House and not from Congress. That must end today. This is a national tragedy and it demands a national response. My deepest sympathies are with the families of all those affected, and my determination to stop this madness is stronger than ever.”

***

Enough!

Enough with putting off tomorrow what we should be talking about today. Enough with being afraid to step on someone’s delicate sensibilities when it comes to the Second Amendment. Enough with elected leaders who are too cowardly to confront the National Rifle Association and their ardent supporters. Enough with moms and dads and brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles and pastors and deacons who are afraid to make public the private anguish of mental illness.

Enough! Enough! Enough!

***

The goal of this petition is to force the Obama Administration to produce legislation that limits access to guns. While a national dialogue is critical, laws are the only means in which we can reduce the number of people murdered in gun related deaths.

Powerful lobbying groups allow the ownership of guns to reach beyond the Constitution’s intended purpose of the right to bear arms. Therefore, Congress must act on what is stated law, and face the reality that access to firearms reaches beyond what the Second Amendment intends to achieve.

***

Obama has been given several sad opportunities to address gun violence. In Tucson, he spoke of “a national conversation” commencing, “not only about the motivations behind these killings, but about everything from the merits of gun safety laws to the adequacy of our mental health system.” After an attack on a Sikh temple outside Milwaukee, Obama said similar events “are happening with too much regularity for us not to do some soul-searching to examine additional ways that we can reduce violence.”

But that soul-searching did not happen in Obama’s first term. And before Friday’s shooting in Newtown, few thought Obama would devote political capital to any sort of serious push for new gun-control legislation. Though the National Rifle Association’s power has waned from its peak, Republicans remain firmly on the NRA’s side while Democrats remain deeply scarred by the gun-rights group’s success in ousting pro-gun-control legislators. It will be days before we know whether a massacre at an elementary school will be enough to force Obama and Congress to act.

***

“What’s he going to do? He’s not going to get legislation,” said Larry Sabato, a political science professor at the University of Virginia. “That’s obvious to anybody.”

Sabato and other experts predicted that Washington’s powerful gun lobby — and the many lawmakers from both parties who are cognizant of its influence — virtually assures the failure of any legislation aimed at curbing gun rights. At best, Sabato said, Obama could try other policy approaches in an attempt to improve public safety, such as by backing legislation that would require more metal detectors in schools and other public places…

Obama did not outline specifics or directly call on Congress to act, but many Democrats issued statements that echoed the president’s call for a policy response.

***

Democrats all over Washington issued statements Friday expressing sympathy and dismay over the school shooting in Newtown, Conn. But amid the sadness, grief and shock one thing was clear — most in the Democratic Party did not want to inject a discussion of gun control into the day.

Many Democrats blame gun control for Al Gore’s 2000 presidential loss and there has been an increasing reluctance over the past decade to push the issue to the forefront of American politics. In 2006, Democrats won a majority in Congress in part by winning in conservative areas with candidates who were proudly pro-gun rights…

Democratic Congressional Committee Chairman Steve Israel of New York avoided vague references altogether. His statement was purely sympathetic and stressed that Americans should “stand together with the community of Newtown.”

***

I teach at a state university with a campus gun-free policy, and quite a few of my students have permits to carry guns. After the Virginia Tech shooting a few years ago, one of them asked me if we could move class off campus, because she felt unsafe being unarmed. I certainly would have felt perfectly safe having her carry a gun in my presence; she was, and is, a responsible adult. I feel the same way about the other law students I know who have carry permits.

Gun-free zones are premised on a lie: that murderers will follow rules, and that people like my student are a greater danger to those around them than crazed killers. That’s an insult to honest people. Sometimes, it’s a deadly one. The notion that more guns mean more crime is wrong. In fact, as gun ownership has expanded over the past decade, crime has gone down.

Fortunately, the efforts to punish “the people who didn’t do it” are getting less traction these days.

***

***

On the outskirts of the vigil I met Tom Donlin, who’d made an ad hoc candle holder out of a Starbucks cup. “I just was walking by and saw this,” he said. “I’m not actually for gun control, so I probably disagree with these people. There’s strict gun control in Norway, and that gunman killed — what, something like 80 people?” He was still listening. “We might want to look at mental health laws, not gun laws.”

At another end of the crowd, a government worker named Jennifer Purl huddled in her green coat and complimented some activists on their signs. “Yes!” she said. “Close the gun show loophole.” She rattled off some other ideas for restricting guns, without banning them, and with consideration for the mental state of gun owners. “Nobody’s talking about banning guns! Every time there’s one of these tragedies, people run out to buy guns. It’s crazy, just crazy.”

***

Via Mediaite.

***


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Having a less safe environment for ourselves and loved ones is just part of being an American.

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

You’re safer in Minnesota, Iowa or New Hampshire than you are in Germany or Australia. Hmm…why could that be…

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:07 PM

But why do Americans choose to behave that way more often than Japanese, or Australians, or English?

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 9:38 PM

Has nothing to do with gun laws or lack of gun laws. It has everything to do with a culture of lack of responsibility.

American kids are growing up being told they’re not responsible for their own actions. Oh, you ate too much McDonalds. The sugar in the soda made you act that way. Oh, you were bullied, that’s why you’re lashing out. Blah, blah, blah.

Every American kid is growing up with a sense of being a victim. No individual responsibility whatsoever.

And I blame you dirty hippies for that. Always trying pigeonhole people and trying to find a way to exert control in one fashion or another.

Your sick paternalistic viewpoints on government and life in general. You want to coddle over everyone and make them feel good about themselves, even when they might be a total piece of crap like this.

Teach out children how to act responsibly and to understand that sometimes life isn’t fair. Sometimes you don’t get a trophy just for showing up.

And when they chose to do wrong, it was their choice.

ButterflyDragon on December 14, 2012 at 10:07 PM

What do you propose? It sounds to me like some of you are suggesting but afraid to say out loud that you support denying gun-rights by race or city.

To which I say, eventually they will come for yours too.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:06 PM

They’re already going to come for us when the welfare checks run out, and we’re badly outnumbered.

MelonCollie on December 14, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Well, I’m done feeding the attention whore.

davidk on December 14, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Because scumbags like you scream RACIST if someone tries to do that.

wargamer6 on December 14, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Ernesto is a dishonest as they get. He plays both sides of that argument. He argues that the GOP ignores Latinos and Blacks as if they have separate concerns and then calls people racists if they dare point out where the gun crime occurs…. all the while giving a pass to Africa who has a far murderous populace.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Looks like Africa and South America are the hot zones for murder. They have 6 times the murder rate we do.

SparkPlug on December 14, 2012 at 9:41 PM

You should compare US to well developed nations, or at least where there is rule of law. Even countries like Brazil which are relatively developed, have a mix of corrupt and overwhelmed law enforcement and justice system.

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Want something for Christmas?

Axe on December 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

Another Rock lobster oven mitt please. Can’t have too many.

SparkPlug on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

See, when you don’t have a second amendment, say as in …

keep the change on December 14, 2012 at 9:56 PM

…the UK, you can get convicted of murder* for defending yourself and your home from two invaders and sentenced to life imprisonment.

* While self-defence will not ameliorate your predicament if convicted of murder, getting some psychiatrists to testify that you have a BPD that manifests itself in a paranoia of strangers entering your home might get your conviction knocked down to manslaughter with a 3-7 year prison term.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

to be fair, that country has had active, armed rebel groups, and ak47s can be bought at flea markets.

sesquipedalian on December 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

Yes. Russia is known for corruption where all police can be bought, and there is an active black market for pretty much everything – proving that what laws are on the books are pointless when it comes to outlaws. This sicko violated a crapton of laws already on the books in Connecticut, restrict it to the levels of Russia and as shown, it won’t accomplish anything.

Other than maybe benefit organized terrorist groups and gangs that will now be the only individuals in the nation capable of banding together enough firepower to overtake a school… or a town.

Gingotts on December 14, 2012 at 10:09 PM

You should compare US to well developed nations, or at least where there is rule of law.

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

I have…to Switzerland.

**crickets**

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:09 PM

You should compare US to well developed nations, or at least where there is rule of law. Even countries like Brazil which are relatively developed, have a mix of corrupt and overwhelmed law enforcement and justice system.

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

But are we allowed to compare Chicago , Detroit, BMore, and Philly to the rest of the U.S.?

That is the question.

/

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:10 PM

If this is true, and I’m inclined to think that it is, then why would it not be reasonable to conclude that these innocents were in fact slaughtered by gun control. After all, it was the laws of CT that made it far less likely that anyone would have the wherewithal to defend this school and its precious children.
It wasn’t the presence of guns in the hands of an outlaw, it was the absence of guns in the hands of a responsible citizen, that produced this atrocity.

Lew on December 14, 2012 at 9:50 PM

It’s true and it’s even worse then I described.

Isn’t it ironic how the places with strictest gun laws ALSO have the most gun violence?? (Chicago, Washington DC).

Raquel Pinkbullet on December 14, 2012 at 10:10 PM

So why don’t you insist conservatives say that when they run for office? Why are there no conservative proposals for dealing with the problem of black and latino populations? Why do you resist speaking your mind on this issue?

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Because anyone who tries to address the issue of black crime is called a racist, and nothing ever gets done about it. Oh well. Enjoy the mountain of corpses in inner cities, ernie. Your side has worked years to secure it.

You demagogue anyone who tries to address the problem, which leaves us with inner-cities with murder rates that would make most third world ****holes blush, and other areas with perfectly reasonable crime rates (right in line with our ‘peers’ in Germany, Spain, and Australia), but moralizing twits like you always leave out the demographics and just state that ‘Americans are violent.’

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Does that change anything? Inner city Americans are still Americans, and still more likely to murder than inner city Japanese or Germans or Spanish or Italians or Australians.

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 10:00 PM

Does the phrase “per capita” mean anything to you?

Plus, *looks around furtively* let’s not talk about *in real quiet voice* who it is causing these gun crimes.

kim roy on December 14, 2012 at 10:11 PM

When the zombie apocalypse comes, these lefty’s that are whining about guns will be the first to hide behind real Americans with guns crying for protection.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:12 PM

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 9:38 PM

Has nothing to do with gun laws or lack of gun laws. It has everything to do with a culture of lack of responsibility.

American kids are growing up being told they’re not responsible for their own actions. Oh, you ate too much McDonalds. The sugar in the soda made you act that way. Oh, you were bullied, that’s why you’re lashing out. Blah, blah, blah.

Every American kid is growing up with a sense of being a victim. No individual responsibility whatsoever.

And I blame you dirty hippies for that. Always trying pigeonhole people and trying to find a way to exert control in one fashion or another.

Your sick paternalistic viewpoints on government and life in general. You want to coddle over everyone and make them feel good about themselves, even when they might be a total piece of crap like this.

Teach out children how to act responsibly and to understand that sometimes life isn’t fair. Sometimes you don’t get a trophy just for showing up.

And when they chose to do wrong, it was their choice.

ButterflyDragon on December 14, 2012 at 10:07 PM

This.

The Ernies of the world work to destroy the family and then stand back and ask what happened. They preach that people are not responsible for their own actions….The freak needs to look in the mirror.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:12 PM

to be fair, that country has had active, armed rebel groups, and ak47s can be bought at flea markets.

sesquipedalian on December 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM

All true, but what would banning guns in the US accomplish if you aren’t going to seal the borders? It’s not as though AK-47s would be unavailable in the US for those that really wanted them. Heroin is banned, but it still makes it way by the tonne into the country. There’s no reason to expect that what we have not been able to do with drugs and illegal aliens would be able to be accomplished with guns.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:12 PM

What do you propose? It sounds to me like some of you are suggesting but afraid to say out loud that you support denying gun-rights by race or city.

To which I say, eventually they will come for yours too.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:06 PM

Nope, would never support that. But hey, why would I need to? Guns are already outlawed in many of those crime-ridden cities, and it’s completely wiped out the problem. No more murders in DC or Chicago!

That’s at least what I assume has happened, since people like Bloomberg want those laws to be passed nationwide.

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Please clear the air: state your argument plainly, so that we may discuss it.

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Let’s discuss me purchasing 2 one way plane tickets out of the country for both you and your bride.

JPeterman on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

. . . BPD that manifests itself in a paranoia of strangers entering your home . . .

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

!

I have…to Switzerland.

**crickets**

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:09 PM

He hasn’t read the thread. Just reading his points.

Axe on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Why is it that the Swiss are awash in guns, but don’t kill each other?

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Tell us your answer. Say it out loud so to speak.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Why do you resist speaking your mind on this issue?

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 10:04 PM

You’re hilarious. You play so many games…

just like you do with your gfs and wife. I wonder does she know that you buggered men?

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Back when we had less gun control, and way less mental health services, nobody would have conceived of going to a school and shooting a bunch of kids. Now it’s an option.

El Cabong on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Robert Licata said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher. “That’s when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door,” he said. “He was very brave. He waited for his friends.”

http://www.redeyechicago.com/news/chi-connecticut-school-shooting-20121214,0,3855234.story

davidk on December 14, 2012 at 10:15 PM

German Firearms Act of 1937:
“No civilian is to have a firearm without a permit and permits will not be issued to [persons] suspected of acting against the state. For Jews this permission will not be granted. Those people who do not require permission to purchase or carry weapons [include] the whole SS and SA, including the Death’s Head group and officers of the Hitler Youth.”

Adolph Hitler:
“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.”
….April 11,1942.

’nuff said.

tencole on December 14, 2012 at 10:15 PM

JPeterman on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

His “bride” is his left hand.

wargamer6 on December 14, 2012 at 10:15 PM

the leftists are salivating over the prospect of finally disarming us so that they can start up the gulags and ovens

tom daschle concerned on December 14, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Back when we had less gun control, and way less mental health services, nobody would have conceived of going to a school and shooting a bunch of kids. Now it’s an option.

El Cabong on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Yep. Partly, that is because arab and muslim terrorists have made careers of mass murder at soft targets and the lefties demand that these terrorists be treated with kid gloves, feted at the fetid UN, and given whole states to originate their destabilizing, uncivilized chaos from.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 14, 2012 at 10:17 PM

Our children are our most valuable resource. It’s time to put at least one armed guard at every school. I, for one, am willing to pay more local taxes to make it happen.

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:17 PM

Back when we had less gun control, and way less mental health services, nobody would have conceived of going to a school and shooting a bunch of kids. Now it’s an option.

El Cabong on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Then:

People -> People

Now:

People -> Government -> People

People also watch each other being beaten and robbed in the street, or thrown onto train-tracks. It’s somebody else’s problem.

Axe on December 14, 2012 at 10:19 PM

Our children are our most valuable resource. It’s time to put at least one armed guard at every school. I, for one, am willing to pay more local taxes to make it happen.

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:17 PM

My HS had an assigned cop, and I was happy for it.

We almost never needed her as a cop…but on those rare occasions when we DID…oh boy were we glad we didn’t need to wait for one to show up.

MelonCollie on December 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:17 PM

There would be too many rules.

Better to remove the “gun free” status and let the teachers with CHL’s carry.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM

His “bride” is his left hand.

wargamer6 on December 14, 2012 at 10:15 PM

And has guns like Moochelle..

Electrongod on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Our children are our most valuable resource. It’s time to put at least one armed guard at every school. I, for one, am willing to pay more local taxes to make it happen.

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:17 PM

What percentage of all schools have had an attack from a gun wielding criminal in the last 10 years?

I get your concern but can you answer my question?

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

I’ve heard that the shooter had Asperger’s. Let me cut straight to the chase: Having Asperger’s does NOT turn you into a homicidal maniac!
My abusive father kept a loaded revolver in his nightstand drawer. I have AS and knew it was there.
He died of Crohn’s when I was in my early 30′s. I was raised around guns and taught gun safety/respect for the weapon at a young age…I’m also not evil.
ASPERGER’S DOES NOT MAKE PEOPLE KILL!!!!

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Ernie, how hard has it been for you to acquire weed in your lifetime? I know you are, or were, a user. Marijuana, as I’m sure you know, is against the law.

Why do you think guns would be any harder to get illegally than pot?

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Bloomberg want those laws to be passed nationwide.

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Good on ya … as long as you don’t use your ideas as an excuse to further erode the distinct rights gun-owners have.

Rest assured MB is planning right now how best to use his money to implement his version of Utopia. If one man scares me it is him.

I gave him a pass on the soda ban because NY and LA are awash in nanny-laws and I say it suits them. But I am genuinely afraid of what he is scheming. He has the money to see it through.

He wants your guns. He wants mine. He wants his way. I’ve had to hand over weapons before. And I don’t mean in some gun buyback either. I was still allowed to own but I had to give up a particular piece. Every day I feared that there would be some excuse opening me up to having the rest taken.

Hmmm. I need to go check my safe. I can’t believe I have not done so today.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:22 PM

Look up the list of the most dangerous cities. There are some common characteristics.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:23 PM

I have…to Switzerland.

**crickets**

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:09 PM

That’s one. Culturally closer to us are Canada, UK, Australia…

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:23 PM

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:17 PM

There would be too many rules.

Better to remove the “gun free” status and let the teachers with CHL’s carry.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM

I can draft a building that costs half what we paid for the last one and makes it impossible for anyone to attack a single kid. A professional could draft one that’s code.

There are solutions to this chink in our armor, and we’ll never do any of them if we allow ourselves to be distracted by people who want the population disarmed.

Axe on December 14, 2012 at 10:24 PM

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

I have no idea, but if an armed guard could stop just one attack, or lessen the casualties of an attack, to me it’s worth it. And if knowing that an armed guard was present at a school would make one shooter hesitate, I think that is worth it as well.

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Ernie, how hard has it been for you to acquire weed in your lifetime? I know you are, or were, a user. Marijuana, as I’m sure you know, is against the law.

Why do you think guns would be any harder to get illegally than pot?

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

That’s not the only thing he smokes.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:24 PM

the leftists are salivating over the prospect of finally disarming us so that they can start up the gulags and ovens

tom daschle concerned on December 14, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Let them try.

There are 7 Democrat senators up for re-election in Red States in 2014.

sentinelrules on December 14, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Pol pot. Kmer rouge. Schools. Maoist Christmas
Tree ornaments.

Maybe there’s some communism going on here.

wolly4321 on December 14, 2012 at 10:25 PM

I gave him a pass on the soda ban because NY and LA are awash in nanny-laws and I say it suits them.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:22 PM

Why? The utter pettiness and stupidity of such bans should tell you something. Anyone willing to do something so ridiculous, clearly, has no bounds.

Bloomberg should have been arrested and jailed when he sent New York cops out around the country to try and entrap people in other states for his notion of gun control. He was out of his jurisdiction committing crimes. Everyone from New York involved in those crimes should have been arrested along with him.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 14, 2012 at 10:25 PM

This story is only getting stranger: Law enforcement official: Conn. shooter’s mother did not appear to have connection with the school: http://apne.ws/XoxxQm -SS

Raquel Pinkbullet on December 14, 2012 at 10:25 PM

I’m also not evil.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

well, you know; no need to exaggerate

Axe on December 14, 2012 at 10:26 PM

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

I have no idea, but if an armed guard could stop just one attack, or lessen the casualties of an attack, to me it’s worth it. And if knowing that an armed guard was present at a school would make one shooter hesitate, I think that is worth it as well.

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:24 PM

As someone suggested it probably would make more sense in a lot of areas to have at least several armed staff members. One armed guard could easily be taken out or avoided.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:26 PM

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM

That’s what I was telling people @ work!
Gun-free zones=criminal-safe zones!

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:28 PM

This tragedy was horrific and heart rending. Attempts by authoritarian, police-state politicians to use it to their advantage as a pretext to ban guns only reinforces the purpose and need for the 2nd amendment. The 2nd is about more than allowing us to defend ourselves from violent lunatics like the shooter, it is even more important that the government need fear the American people or else our freedom is lost. Tragedies like this can’t be stopped unless we create an un-American totalitarian state, and nobody wants that except the authoritarian elite, their cronies and useful idiots like the MSM.

FloatingRock on December 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Here’s the reality: There are 200-300 million guns in America….
if you think guns are the problem what are you going to do?

If you think we have a culture of death what are you going to do?

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:31 PM

As someone suggested it probably would make more sense in a lot of areas to have at least several armed staff members. One armed guard could easily be taken out or avoided.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Sure. Arming several staff members would work as well. I just think that a potential shooter might hesitate if he knew that he would most likely meet with resistance, whether it’s a guard or staff members. This appears to be the reason that gun violence decreases in areas that allow concealed carry.

TarheelBen on December 14, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Back when we had less gun control, and way less mental health services, nobody would have conceived of going to a school and shooting a bunch of kids. Now it’s an option.

El Cabong on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Actually, we had asylums to put people in.

Fallon on December 14, 2012 at 10:32 PM

Wanna talk about gun control and bans? Fully automatic guns are currently illegal and have been for years in this country, with the exception of law enforcement and certain private individuals who have been vetted by law enforcement officials to own them. I know this since I own, legally, a number of full-autos.

That said, if you live in or near a big city, for about $5,000 or so, you can obtain a full-auto, illegally, in about 48 hours, no vetting, no sweat. As you can acquire cocaine, heroin, and all manner of other illegal things.

More gun control, and why the criminals love it, means they can charge even more for these things. It’s their full-employment wet dream.

TXUS on December 14, 2012 at 10:32 PM

I’m also not evil.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

How can you be the judge of that?

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:28 PM

Ya’ know, the criminals around me found that out a long time ago.

They go somewhere else.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:32 PM

Why is it that the Swiss are awash in guns, but don’t kill each other?

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 9:45 PM

Tell us your answer. Say it out loud so to speak.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Who? Me? I don’t profess to know all the answers why. That’s not why I asked. Ernie says that the US is awash in guns and has a much higher gun crime problem than its peers. True, but the problem isn’t because of guns. Nearly every household in Switzerland owns a gun and the Swiss aren’t killing each other.

From my old blog:

The army sells a variety of machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons. Purchasers of these weapons require an easily obtained cantonal licence, and the weapons are registered.

Besides subsidised military surplus, the Swiss can buy other firearms easily too. While long guns require no special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a Waffenerwerbsschien (purchase certificate) issued by a cantonal authority. A certificate is issued to every applicant over 18, who is not a criminal or mentally infirm.

There are no restrictions on the carrying of long guns. About half the cantons have strict permit procedures for carrying handguns, and the other half have no rules at all There is no discernible difference in the crime rate between the cantons as a result of the different policies.

Thanks to a lawsuit brought by the Swiss gun lobby, semi-automatic rifles require no purchase permit and are not registered by the government. Thus, the only long guns registered by the government are full automatics. Three cantons do require collectors of more than 10 guns to register.

While there are around 200 million guns in the United States, only about 20% of Americans own guns. There may only be 2 million guns in Switzerland, a country of 6 million people, but nearly EVERY household is armed.

Personally, I would say a lot of the cause is likely cultural. Switzerland is a less violent society. Gangs and drugs aren’t ingrained. Education is more important (situations like the calamity in Detroit where only 7% of the 8th graders can read at grade level do not happen)…although they spend less per student than the US. Urban areas are not allowed to stay locked in a permanent state of blight, crime, drugs, violence, illiteracy, etc., creating inescapable prisons for their inhabitants.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Obama cited Scripture to call for healing, and said “we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.”

What a deprived charlatanic azzhole is president. He is a tad smarter than Bloomberg, though. He didn’t come out with “I will ban the 2nd by EO today”. He had Carney skirt the issue until next week.

Land of fools, you re-elected a moron.

Schadenfreude on December 14, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Please clear the air: state your argument plainly, so that we may discuss it.

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Here you go, ernie.

a capella on December 14, 2012 at 10:34 PM

Law enforcement official: Conn. shooter’s mother did not appear to have connection with the school: http://apne.ws/XoxxQm -SS

Raquel Pinkbullet on December 14, 2012 at 10:25 PM

Then, why did the school buzz him in? Weird.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:34 PM

This tragedy was horrific and heart rending. Attempts by authoritarian, police-state politicians to use it to their advantage as a pretext to ban guns only reinforces the purpose and need for the 2nd amendment. The 2nd is about more than allowing us to defend ourselves from violent lunatics like the shooter, it is even more important that the government need fear the American people or else our freedom is lost. Tragedies like this can’t be stopped unless we create an un-American totalitarian state, and nobody wants that except the authoritarian elite, their cronies and useful idiots like the MSM.

FloatingRock on December 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Excellent

Schadenfreude on December 14, 2012 at 10:35 PM

I’ve heard that the shooter had Asperger’s. Let me cut straight to the chase: Having Asperger’s does NOT turn you into a homicidal maniac!
My abusive father kept a loaded revolver in his nightstand drawer. I have AS and knew it was there.
He died of Crohn’s when I was in my early 30′s. I was raised around guns and taught gun safety/respect for the weapon at a young age…I’m also not evil.
ASPERGER’S DOES NOT MAKE PEOPLE KILL!!!!

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

It sounds like there was a lot more going on with guy, in addition to his AS, if he indeed did have it.

RedRedRice on December 14, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Why do you think guns would be any harder to get illegally than pot?

Good Solid B-Plus on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

If he’s bought weed he’s been around guns. Guns are easy to buy on the streets of most cities. Ammo can be tricky.

Many people survive guns being brandished. Many people survive because they brandish their own.

Knives scare me more than guns at times. The thing with guns is that some chumps still pull them just to prove they are bad-ass. It really does feel good. I bet you’ve had someone pretend they were armed in your presence before. But the type of guy who pulls a blade with intent is a different type. There are only a few places one gets practice knife fighting. One is AZ. The others are usually behind big walls.

You don’t have to be the least bit scuzzy to act cool while “strapped up.” Check your local crime stats. People pull guns on others all the time – driving, at restaurants, etc. It’s not like TV where everybody with a gun has shot somebody. But it takes a serious thug to cut someone.

Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Heard Levin talking with a guest tonight (can’t remember his name) and he pointed out that with the Aurora shooting, there were 20 theaters within a 10 mile or so radius of the douchebag’s apartment that were showing Batman that night. He didn’t pick the closest one, or the largest one. The one he DID choose was the only one with a sign displayed at the front stating that the theater did not permit handguns on the premises. Coincidence? Who knows. All I know is that these acts of evil almost inevitably take place in gun-free zones. And on those rare occasions that they don’t — as with Ft. Hood — the carnage is stopped much more swiftly. You wouldn’t put a sign outside your house that said “This is a gun-free zone” so why do we do it in public spaces? It’s just inviting trouble. And try as they might, progressive will never be able to legislate trouble into extinction. There are just far too many nutjobs in the world for that to ever be the case.

And to reiterate what others have been saying here most of the day: Household gun ownership had to be a LOT more prevalent 50, 100, 150 years ago than it is now. Yet these types of glory-seeking mass murder events are commonplace only recently. Like in the last 40 years or so. Do the math, progressives. If you want to blame this stuff on something, blame it on an epidemic of depraved indifference to human life, which is largely a product of your policies. Own it.

NoLeftTurn on December 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Then, why did the school buzz him in? Weird.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:34 PM

You’re guess is as good as mine.

Raquel Pinkbullet on December 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:12 PM

I plan to be very selective about who stands behind me.

Bmore on December 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM

He died of Crohn’s when I was in my early 30′s. I was raised around guns and taught gun safety/respect for the weapon at a young age…I’m also not evil.
ASPERGER’S DOES NOT MAKE PEOPLE KILL!!!!

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Just to keep anyone here who might get it, or their child get it, someday from panicking, Crohns is not normally considered to be a fatal disease or even life shorting one.

VorDaj on December 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Some things are not as simple as the Lesters and Ernies pretend:

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, shows that England has much higher levels of crime than the U.S.

Among industrialized nations, England and Wales rank second overall.

Twenty-six percent of British citizens have been victimized by violent crime.

Australia leads all industrialized nations with 30 percent of its population victimized.

Canada ranks fifth, with 24 percent of its citizens victimized.
What about the United States? Not even in the top-10. In the U.S. 21 percent of the citizens have been victims of a violent crime.

Some more highlights:
Percent of population that suffered “contact crime”:
• England and Wales: 3.6 percent
• United States: 1.9 percent
• Japan: 0.4 percent

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:37 PM

FloatingRock on December 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

On this we can agree.

Bmore on December 14, 2012 at 10:38 PM

I plan to be very selective about who stands behind me.

Bmore on December 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Me too. Genetic material for rebuilding.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:38 PM

When I was a kid, every boy had a pocket knife. Show and tell day I could show off a new .22. Now we need armed security? I’m only 44. And this was in Maryland.

wolly4321 on December 14, 2012 at 10:38 PM

You should compare US to well developed nations, or at least where there is rule of law. Even countries like Brazil which are relatively developed, have a mix of corrupt and overwhelmed law enforcement and justice system.

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

In 1900 the murder rate in the United States was 1.2 per 100,000 people. There was less gun laws and restrictions at that time, in fact there was no war on drugs (even cocaine was legal), no war on alcohol like between 1920-1933, the federal law code was simple, the police were less sophisticated

Lester it would be nice if you could explain why the murder rate was 1.2 per 100,000 in 1900 when we had less restrictions on almost everything compared to today, although last year was the lowest since 1963 at 4.7.

Plus the Europeans and Japanese, were more violent over the last 100 years (1912-2012) than Americans, because they started two World Wars, Communism, Fascism, etc. That kill rate dwarfs our kill rate during the same period.

William Eaton on December 14, 2012 at 10:38 PM

…no comment!

KOOLAID2 on December 14, 2012 at 10:38 PM

RedRedRice on December 14, 2012 at 10:35 PM

I’ve been thinking about buying a small(ladies cut) handgun for target shooting/self-defense. I would hate to barred from exercising my second amendment rights just because I have AS>

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

They go somewhere else.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:32 PM

Not too many gun stores robbed during open hours.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Tencole on December 14, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Alfred Flatow was a Jewish veteran of the German army, who competed for Germany in the 1896 Olympics.

What if he – and an unknown number of other Germans, Jews and non-Jews alike – had not registered his firearms in 1932? Or if the Weimar Republic had not decreed firearm registration at all? What if the Nazis, when they took power in 1933 and disarmed social democrats and other political enemies, or when they decided to repress the entire Jewish population in 1938, did not have police records of registered firearm owners? Can it be said with certainty that no one, either individually or in groups small or large, would have resisted Nazi depredations?

One wonders what thoughts may have occurred to Alfred Flatow in 1942 when he was dying of starvation at the Theresienstadt concentration camp. Perhaps memories of the 1896 Olympics and of a better Germany flashed before his eyes. Did he have second thoughts, maybe repeated many times before, on whether he should have registered his revolver and two pocket pistols in 1932 as decreed by the Weimar Republic? Or whether he should have obediently surrendered them at a Berlin police station in 1938 as ordered by Nazi decree, only to be taken into Gestapo custody?

We will never know, but it is difficult to imagine that he had no regrets.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Well,I woke up,stumbled to the fridge,grabbed a drink of milk,
CNN was on,news was breaking,went back up stairs,looked at my
2 year old grandson sleeping where we were napping,and cried my heart
out.

The only comfort I have,is knowing Angels one by one wrapped their
beautiful wings around each child,cradled them,and crossed over to the other side,to take the children back home.

BTW,this came across the Breaking News late last night,as I see
almost every gawd forsaken bad and good,

including these two:

22 children, 1 adult injured in knife attack outside central China primary school – @AP

18 hours ago from http://www.washingtonpost.com by editor
=======================================================

US December 12, 2012
Texas man accused of carving pentagram into son

http://www.mail.com/news/us/1762060-texas-man-accused-carving-pentagram-son.html

canopfor on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Make your own Gun Free Zone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhgzcioPet8&feature=player_detailpage

Well worth watching to dispel the notion of safety in one of these ‘zones’

Southern by choice22 on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

This tragedy was horrific and heart rending. Attempts by authoritarian, police-state politicians to use it to their advantage as a pretext to ban guns only reinforces the purpose and need for the 2nd amendment. The 2nd is about more than allowing us to defend ourselves from violent lunatics like the shooter, it is even more important that the government need fear the American people or else our freedom is lost. Tragedies like this can’t be stopped unless we create an un-American totalitarian state, and nobody wants that except the authoritarian elite, their cronies and useful idiots like the MSM.

FloatingRock on December 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Well said.

Axe on December 14, 2012 at 10:40 PM

wolly4321 on December 14, 2012 at 10:38 PM

In high school I used my mother’s old Girl Scout pocket knife as a keychain. The school was aware of it. I’m 42.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:41 PM

From the Daily Caller link someone posted—

Except if you dig down into the numbers, the issue becomes more complicated. The plague of gun violence in the U.S., it turns out, is not as widespread or as random as many gun control advocates would have us believe. Indeed, gun violence in America largely consists of black and Hispanic males shooting other black and Hispanic males. According to a study by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, based on data collected by the Center for Disease Control, 1.5 white Americans in 100,000 were shot and killed in 2007 — still higher than the Canadian rate of 0.6, but, given the population densities of the two nations, at least in the same ballpark. On the other hand, the rate for Hispanic Americans was an alarming 5.2 per 100,000 — more than three times the rate among whites Americans. The rate for African Americans was a grotesque 18.1 per 100,000, or roughly 12 times the rate among whites Americans. The rate for African-American males was an obscene 37.59 per 100,000.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:41 PM

FloatingRock on December 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Bravo.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Don’t get one until you’ve tried a few. And don’t let some guy tell you what is best for you! Find one you are comfortable with. And learn how to take care of it!

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM

That’s one. Culturally closer to us are Canada, UK, Australia…

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:23 PM

The crime rate is very high in the UK. For many crimes, it is among the most violent in all of the EU.

Resist We Much on December 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM

Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

data out from the UK, where guns are banned, shows gun crime has soared by 35 percent.

The Government’s latest crime figures were condemned as “truly terrible” by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

Galt2009 on December 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM

I’ve been thinking about buying a small(ladies cut) handgun for target shooting/self-defense. I would hate to barred from exercising my second amendment rights just because I have AS>

annoyinglittletwerp on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Do it. You’ll have fun and be better protected.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM

All I know is that these acts of evil almost inevitably take place in gun-free zones. And on those rare occasions that they don’t — as with Ft. Hood — the carnage is stopped much more swiftly.

NoLeftTurn on December 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Actually, except for MPs, Ft. Hood is, and was, largely a gun-free zone. None of the Muslims victims was allowed to have a gun on base.

VorDaj on December 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM

The goal of this petition is to force the Obama Administration to produce legislation that limits access to guns.

Sorry, champ, the Constitution is clear and the USSC has recently affirmed it.

Go peddle your ideology somewhere else, in Greece or France maybe.

petefrt on December 14, 2012 at 10:43 PM

Not too many gun stores robbed during open hours.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Ya’ think there may be a reason for that?

And I always wondered why jewelry stores didn’t locate next to gun stores. A place to shop for him and her.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:44 PM

You should compare US to well developed nations, or at least where there is rule of law. Even countries like Brazil which are relatively developed, have a mix of corrupt and overwhelmed law enforcement and justice system.

lester on December 14, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Comment proving, again, that you’re a gnatbrain.

Schadenfreude on December 14, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Perhaps the most incoherent Tweet came from actor Dax Shepard of “Parenthood” fame.
I love guns. I have several, but I would gladly get rid of them if it would help prevent anything like this from happening again- Breitbart

The logic is just astounding.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:45 PM

Remember when Obowma shed a tear about the children that would never have another birthday, Christmas, get married, and have children…?

… Yeah, so do I.

Seven Percent Solution on December 14, 2012 at 10:45 PM

School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut
***************************************

A gunman opened fire inside a Connecticut elementary school on Dec. 14, 2012, in a shooting that left several dead, including children, officials say.

The shooting appeared to be the nation’s second-deadliest school shooting, exceeded only by the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007. – AP

Many U.S. politicians have released statements following news of the shooting
********

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/school-shooting-in-newtown-connecticut

http://www.breakingnews.com/

canopfor on December 14, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Ya’ think there may be a reason for that?

And I always wondered why jewelry stores didn’t locate next to gun stores. A place to shop for him and her.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Here’s a hint to anyone who think’s about robbing a mom and pop jewelry store owner….don’t do it…..they’re packing.

CW on December 14, 2012 at 10:46 PM

When the zombie apocalypse comes, these lefty’s that are whining about guns will be the first to hide behind real Americans with guns crying for protection.

cozmo on December 14, 2012 at 10:12 PM

they will not get it … lefties will have a new name … BAIT

conservative tarheel on December 14, 2012 at 10:47 PM

Who are you people and what are you doing in my living-room???

SWalker on December 14, 2012 at 10:48 PM

Perhaps the most incoherent Tweet came from actor Dax Shepard of “Parenthood” fame.
I love guns. I have several, but I would gladly get rid of them if it would help prevent anything like this from happening again- Breitbart

Sounds like he’s been on his recliner/toilet watching Ow My Balls again…

Gingotts on December 14, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Full court press:

McCarthy: I will embarrass Obama on gun control

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/12/mccarthy-i-will-embarrass-obama-on-gun-controls-152047.html

davidk on December 14, 2012 at 10:51 PM

What a terrible day. I actually attended church with my wife and a few of the kids, she was pretty upset about all of it. I don’t attend church but I did tonight, this sort of thing can make a man look for answers.

Bishop on December 14, 2012 at 10:51 PM

What do you propose? It sounds to me like some of you are suggesting but afraid to say out loud that you support denying gun-rights by race or city.
To which I say, eventually they will come for yours too.
Capitalist Hog on December 14, 2012 at 10:06 PM

Good grief no; you entirely miss the point. Denying law abiding citizens is the result of gun laws and contributes to the problem.

Midas on December 14, 2012 at 10:51 PM

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