Quotes of the day

posted at 8:44 pm on December 14, 2012 by Allahpundit

Obama cited Scripture to call for healing, and said “we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.” He called the shooting a “heinous crime” against “beautiful little kids.”

“We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years, and each time I hear the news I react not as a president but as anyone else would, as a parent,” Obama said. “And that was especially true today.”

***

What is “meaningful action”? Obama has explained this before: He wants a new assault weapons ban. My colleague Allison Benedikt is among those who wanted more from Obama, but that’s not how this works. To use two examples without conflating the scales of the tragedies: LBJ didn’t call for the Civil Rights Act on November 22, 1963, and George W. Bush didn’t ask for any military response on 9/11. Day one is when you tell people whether you’re going to pick up the cards. Showing those cards, that comes later.

***

Bloomberg’s full statement:

“With all the carnage from gun violence in our country, it’s still almost impossible to believe that a mass shooting in a kindergarten class could happen. It has come to that. Not even kindergarteners learning their A,B,Cs are safe. We heard after Columbine that it was too soon to talk about gun laws. We heard it after Virginia Tech. After Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek. And now we are hearing it again. For every day we wait, 34 more people are murdered with guns. Today, many of them were five-year olds. President Obama rightly sent his heartfelt condolences to the families in Newtown. But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem. Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before. What we have not seen is leadership – not from the White House and not from Congress. That must end today. This is a national tragedy and it demands a national response. My deepest sympathies are with the families of all those affected, and my determination to stop this madness is stronger than ever.”

***

Enough!

Enough with putting off tomorrow what we should be talking about today. Enough with being afraid to step on someone’s delicate sensibilities when it comes to the Second Amendment. Enough with elected leaders who are too cowardly to confront the National Rifle Association and their ardent supporters. Enough with moms and dads and brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles and pastors and deacons who are afraid to make public the private anguish of mental illness.

Enough! Enough! Enough!

***

The goal of this petition is to force the Obama Administration to produce legislation that limits access to guns. While a national dialogue is critical, laws are the only means in which we can reduce the number of people murdered in gun related deaths.

Powerful lobbying groups allow the ownership of guns to reach beyond the Constitution’s intended purpose of the right to bear arms. Therefore, Congress must act on what is stated law, and face the reality that access to firearms reaches beyond what the Second Amendment intends to achieve.

***

Obama has been given several sad opportunities to address gun violence. In Tucson, he spoke of “a national conversation” commencing, “not only about the motivations behind these killings, but about everything from the merits of gun safety laws to the adequacy of our mental health system.” After an attack on a Sikh temple outside Milwaukee, Obama said similar events “are happening with too much regularity for us not to do some soul-searching to examine additional ways that we can reduce violence.”

But that soul-searching did not happen in Obama’s first term. And before Friday’s shooting in Newtown, few thought Obama would devote political capital to any sort of serious push for new gun-control legislation. Though the National Rifle Association’s power has waned from its peak, Republicans remain firmly on the NRA’s side while Democrats remain deeply scarred by the gun-rights group’s success in ousting pro-gun-control legislators. It will be days before we know whether a massacre at an elementary school will be enough to force Obama and Congress to act.

***

“What’s he going to do? He’s not going to get legislation,” said Larry Sabato, a political science professor at the University of Virginia. “That’s obvious to anybody.”

Sabato and other experts predicted that Washington’s powerful gun lobby — and the many lawmakers from both parties who are cognizant of its influence — virtually assures the failure of any legislation aimed at curbing gun rights. At best, Sabato said, Obama could try other policy approaches in an attempt to improve public safety, such as by backing legislation that would require more metal detectors in schools and other public places…

Obama did not outline specifics or directly call on Congress to act, but many Democrats issued statements that echoed the president’s call for a policy response.

***

Democrats all over Washington issued statements Friday expressing sympathy and dismay over the school shooting in Newtown, Conn. But amid the sadness, grief and shock one thing was clear — most in the Democratic Party did not want to inject a discussion of gun control into the day.

Many Democrats blame gun control for Al Gore’s 2000 presidential loss and there has been an increasing reluctance over the past decade to push the issue to the forefront of American politics. In 2006, Democrats won a majority in Congress in part by winning in conservative areas with candidates who were proudly pro-gun rights…

Democratic Congressional Committee Chairman Steve Israel of New York avoided vague references altogether. His statement was purely sympathetic and stressed that Americans should “stand together with the community of Newtown.”

***

I teach at a state university with a campus gun-free policy, and quite a few of my students have permits to carry guns. After the Virginia Tech shooting a few years ago, one of them asked me if we could move class off campus, because she felt unsafe being unarmed. I certainly would have felt perfectly safe having her carry a gun in my presence; she was, and is, a responsible adult. I feel the same way about the other law students I know who have carry permits.

Gun-free zones are premised on a lie: that murderers will follow rules, and that people like my student are a greater danger to those around them than crazed killers. That’s an insult to honest people. Sometimes, it’s a deadly one. The notion that more guns mean more crime is wrong. In fact, as gun ownership has expanded over the past decade, crime has gone down.

Fortunately, the efforts to punish “the people who didn’t do it” are getting less traction these days.

***

***

On the outskirts of the vigil I met Tom Donlin, who’d made an ad hoc candle holder out of a Starbucks cup. “I just was walking by and saw this,” he said. “I’m not actually for gun control, so I probably disagree with these people. There’s strict gun control in Norway, and that gunman killed — what, something like 80 people?” He was still listening. “We might want to look at mental health laws, not gun laws.”

At another end of the crowd, a government worker named Jennifer Purl huddled in her green coat and complimented some activists on their signs. “Yes!” she said. “Close the gun show loophole.” She rattled off some other ideas for restricting guns, without banning them, and with consideration for the mental state of gun owners. “Nobody’s talking about banning guns! Every time there’s one of these tragedies, people run out to buy guns. It’s crazy, just crazy.”

***

Via Mediaite.

***


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Evening Jackie!

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Good evening, Bmore! Lovely to see you this evening. :)

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 1:51 AM

That bit — the look at how wonderful my own tears are thing — that bit is why I haven’t seen any of this on TV today.

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 1:45 AM

I’m only here right now because having drunk myself into a semi stupor earlier, my evil and wicked bladder insisted on being releaved. That and I really needed to take some aspirin to ease my pounding head.

SWalker on December 15, 2012 at 1:52 AM

Stone Cold… Dedicated to dire Strait’s, who refuses to fund mine and Axe’s super awsum great album… ;P

SWalker on December 15, 2012 at 1:33 AM

That cheap SOB. I was going to get him a Rolex for Christmas but now he will be lucky to get a Mickey Mouse Watch.

SparkPlug on December 15, 2012 at 1:52 AM

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Good news Jackie, I made it though the poem Axe got me to read. It was good once I got used to it. Strange way to speak.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Nothing’s The Same – Moore

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 1:55 AM

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2012 at 1:57 AM

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 1:55 AM

That’s wonderful, Bmore. The English language has changed significantly over the centuries, yet it remains the single most expressive language on the planet. I find continual delight in it. :)

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Dire Straits on December 15, 2012 at 1:57 AM

Good evening, Dire! So good to see you this evening. :)

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 1:59 AM

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Try Comfortably Numb by David Gilmore..An excellent piece imho..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2012 at 2:00 AM

The Great Flood – Bonamassa

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Well time for rest I reckon. Axe, I let you know how my second reading of it ends up. It will be tough to top my favorite line. I will give it an honest try. Be open to a better line. That one is hitting pretty good though. : )

Good Night All.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

The end result:

The First was with base dunghill Rags yclad,
Tainting the Gale, in which they flutter’d light;
Of morbid Hue his Features, sunk, and sad;
His hollow Eyne shook forth a sickly Light;
And o’er his lank Jaw-Bone, in piteous Plight,
His black rough Beard was matted rank and vile;
Direful to see! an Heart-appalling Sight!
Meantime foul Scurf and Blotches him defile!
And Dogs, where-e’er he went, still barked all the While.

The other was a fell despiteful Fiend:
Hell holds none worse in baleful Bower below;
By Pride, and Wit, and Rage, and Rancour, keen’d;
Of Man alike, if good or bad, the Foe:
With Nose up-turn’d, he always made a Shew
As if he smelt some nauseous Scent; his Eye
Was cold, and keen, like Blast from boreal Snow;
And Taunts he casten forth most bitterly.
Such were the Twain that off drove this ungodly Fry.

Even so through Brentford Town, a Town of Mud,
An Herd of brisly Swine is prick’d along;
The filthy Beasts, that never chew the Cud,
Still grunt, and squeak, and sing their troublous Song,
And oft they plunge themselves the Mire among:
But ay the ruthless Driver goads them on,
And ay of barking Dogs the bitter Throng
Makes them renew their unmelodious Moan;
Ne ever find they Rest from their unresting Fone.

Not good.

But there are better things to reach for!

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Murderous lunatics will not be stopped by removing one potential source of their morbid mayhem.

They could switch to worse methods as an unintended consequence of simplistic do-gooders trying to “remove guns” from the equation.

Gasoline and matches must be banned next?

Ammonia and bleach?

Beware of trying to solve the insoluble and making it even more deadly.

profitsbeard on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Goodnight, Bmore. Sleep well. :)

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Good Night All.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Night Bmore!

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 2:02 AM

LOL — Wow. Still can’t believe that.

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 2:05 AM

As The Years Go Passing By – Moore

I bid you all a fond goodnight. It’s been a pleasure, as always. See you soon.

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 2:10 AM

I bid you all a fond goodnight. It’s been a pleasure, as always. See you soon.

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2012 at 2:10 AM

. . . Night, Jackie.

Voodoo, that’s what that was right there.

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 2:11 AM

It’s also impossible to tell the weeds from the wheat until harvest, since the weeds are mutable . . .

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Bitter Clinger on December 14, 2012 at 9:15 PM

I mean we, Americans. For some reason (a reason you will never offer to identify) we kill each other at a rate much higher than our peers.

ernesto on December 14, 2012 at 9:17 PM

You might be able to identify the reason for the rate if you break it down by such factors as race, religion, and locality.

Otherwise, it’s empty rhetoric to say “for some reason” “we” kill each other at a rate much higher than “our” peers. You’re not interesting in finding out the reason, because the answer won’t be politically correct.

There Goes The Neighborhood on December 15, 2012 at 2:35 AM

Hello??..Is there anybody out there??..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

Hello??..Is there anybody out there??..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

I am. But I can’t comment ’cause I don’t want it to become the bloomin’ “Axe Show” again. :)

Lurking. Reading. That shurrakin thread. Etc. :)

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 3:03 AM

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 3:03 AM

lolz..I figured you were still around..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2012 at 3:04 AM

i know this is o/t…but i think this is interesting

The latest IPCC assessment report has been leaked in a relatively early stage of development….i.e. the Final Report will be put together next year.

WUWT has all the important info…(it was leaked on his site)

there seems to be two things that people are focusing on.

1. there is a sliver of recognition that Solar forcing may impact the global temps in a cyclical way…they don’t do much with this (verboten)…but they actually cite some of the relevant references. small, but maybe meaningful departure form The Dogma

second, the graphs they have of the observed temps look somewhat Below the Model predictions…by over (cough, cough) 2 standard deviations….bwahahahaha

the IPCC is unhappy about this…because now if they scrub this stuff, they’ll have to explain why….bwahahahaha

but a conservation is starting about the transparency ot the IPCC process again….bwhahahaha

anyway…we may be going to cool….and how ultra-rich is that that the Geniuses with the Big Computers, the petta-Flops are not Yet masters of the Universe.

and that in 100 years the thought that these very same people are in the category of the old pols who tried to pass a law that the sun would ris earlier so the cows would be more productive

or, the Feynman story about the Cargo Cult tribe after WWI

Or, Lysenko

r keller on December 15, 2012 at 3:20 AM

the IPCC is unhappy about this…because now if they scrub this stuff, they’ll have to explain why….bwahahahaha

r keller on December 15, 2012 at 3:20 AM

I like this early, pre-scrubbed leak thing.

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 3:24 AM

I’m here

SparkPlug on December 15, 2012 at 3:31 AM

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 3:24 AM

yeah, a bright sun shines into the the dark corners. Things scurrying around

i’ve wondered for some time if the trajectory of the science would out pace the trajectory of the pols…which is to say would good science finally trump bad politics.

but, as feared, once pols get a smell of control, $$$$$$$$$, planning, and did i mention Money?…that there trajectory would have at least a stronger grip that Charlton Heston and his gun….because leftism doesn’t die…just reincarnates itself.

And sady, i think that may still be true. the horrible thought is that all the job killed by the anti-coal, all the little cars, all the CFLs, the carbon tax, cap and trade…the transmission of weath to poor countries…is all based on a LIE….

and how good would our economy be if the crooks inside the beltway have the intelligence and honestly to care for our country

r keller on December 15, 2012 at 3:36 AM

I’m here

SparkPlug on December 15, 2012 at 3:31 AM

I don’t know if that’s true or not.

Link plz.

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 3:52 AM

i’ve wondered for some time if the trajectory of the science would out pace the trajectory of the pols…which is to say would good science finally trump bad politics.

I didn’t think it would, but I’ll be happily wrong. It looked like science, free inquiry, was going to get eaten entirely by politics. It’s already pretty bad, all the way down to pure math.

I should have more faith. :) There’s what it looks like, distorted by the LSM and everything; then there’s the way things really are. And the actual work is going forward, apparently — though quietly and little remarked. :)

but, as feared, once pols get a smell of control, $$$$$$$$$, planning, and did i mention Money?…that there trajectory would have at least a stronger grip that Charlton Heston and his gun….because leftism doesn’t die…just reincarnates itself.

And sady, i think that may still be true. the horrible thought is that all the job killed by the anti-coal, all the little cars, all the CFLs, the carbon tax, cap and trade…the transmission of weath to poor countries…is all based on a LIE….

and how good would our economy be if the crooks inside the beltway have the intelligence and honestly to care for our country

r keller on December 15, 2012 at 3:36 AM

This has always been about global redistribution.

And our government is insane. I don’t mean that as the cliche; I mean it literally. The behavior of our government is insane. Fanning the planet and insisting on wearing a sundress through the winter is, absurdly enough, not even our most problematic weirdness.

Axe on December 15, 2012 at 4:05 AM

I will NOT surrender my arms to become a defenseless victim of a sick murderer OR a sick socialist government.

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 4:36 AM

OR Mall Shooting – Concealed carrier drew on gunman, gunman saw him, shot self

There was another gun in the Clackamas Town Center on Tuesday. An Oregon man drew his pistol on the gunman, but didn’t fire because there were too many people running by. The gunman saw him though, and the next shot fired was the gunman taking his own life.

Even though he didn’t shoot, this man may have saved many lives.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 5:03 AM

How is this for Obama taking “meaningful action”?

From an article by Wesley Pruden on Jewish World Review -

“Barack Obama says he’s a Christian. Good for him (and for the Gospel). But rarely has a Christian paid such obeisance to another faith and ideology. The president’s bow and scrape to Islam knows no end. That’s not so good.

The U.S. Army is soon to issue a handbook instructing soldiers to copy Mr. Obama’s example of when and how to defer to an alien ideology that stands against everything Americans are taught, whether by faith, ethics, morals or another code of good conduct.

The new manual, which runs to 75 pages, orders American military personnel to refrain from saying anything to offend the Taliban in Afghanistan, to be careful not to criticize the practice of sexual relations with children, the abuse of women, beheadings, massacres of girls and the killing of “unbelievers” and Muslims who Taliban enforcers regard as insufficiently devout in the faith. Holding to what they have been taught, whether at Sunday school or a mother’s knee, is presumably OK for American soldiers, at least for now. But they must keep such ideas to themselves.

The manual, issued in the name of the U.S. Government, obviously at the command of the commander in chief, suggests that Western ignorance and arrogance and not the Taliban are responsible for the surge in deadly attacks by Afghan soldiers against the soldiers of the allied coalition.

It’s the tone and tint of the manual that offends. The Army of yesteryear would never feel it necessary to beg for an enemy’s mercy or cultural indulgence. Ike did not caution Americans not to speak ill of the Nazis on the eve of D-Day lest they abuse his soldiers. FDR did not describe the beheading of American pilots by the Japanese in 1942 as “workplace violence” lest he offend the men ofNippon. Ike and FDR counted on soldiers and Marines to be big enough to take care of themselves. ”

The above means that America’s troops are being ordered to not be Americans at all, and to be full Dhimmis! The only way to go any further is to order America’s troops to hate America and to all convert to Islam.

VorDaj on December 15, 2012 at 5:10 AM

The killer wore a pocket-protector. Should we now ban those?

I am not feeling frivolous as to today’s news but I am trying to point out the wretchedly exploitative behavior today by the likes of Bloomberg, Obama and the rest quoted in this post. They USE these tragedies to push their pathetically corrupt politics.

“Banning guns” isn’t the answer to anything except further destruction of our liberty. It’s the behavior involved that determines the action.

The guns were purchased legally. Perhaps the SANE thing to correct here would be to require a parent who houses a mentally and/or emotionally affected (“troubled”) child or other adult to lock-up the weapons. Obviously, this shooter today had access to his mother’s legally purchased guns so that’s the issue right there, that and the mental issues this shooter was affected by.

I am disgusted — DISGUSTED — by Bloomberg’s ongoing exploitation of these tragedies to push his obsessive need to control the liberties of others. It is Bloomberg, at this point, who needs to be “banned” from public office.

And about Obama’s theatre of today with his tears: when I watched that “live”, I saw him use that rotten middle finger of his again, pointed at his face, held up to the public view. The Leftmedia has not shown that since and in still photos, only shows him using another finger to dab at his eyes. But he resorted yet again to that middle-finger-salute gesture to show contempt for liberty when he called for his cryptic “solution”….

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:15 AM

The UK banned guns and knife-violence has burgeoned there.

A crazy guy in China went on a knife-assault and slashed others today (link’s on DRUDGE).

If guns are banned, people with irrationally violent urges toward other human beings are going to use whatever other weapon they can: cars, fires, knives, fists, feet, hurling heavy objects, whatever they can utilize to harm others.

It’s not guns, it’s the mind of the person who picks up guns that is the issue and then, of course, the minds of people like Bloomberg who has abundantly proven he’s a corrupt individual with an obsessive need to control the very lives of others as if we’re ants in his farm.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:17 AM

AND ANOTHER THING:

the culprit today didn’t use an “automatic weapon,” he had one at his disposal, taken from his mother along with the other guns he used, but left (the automatic weapon) in the car he drove to the scene of the crime.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:19 AM

The assault weapon was not used in this crime. It was left in the lunatics car.

Mr. Arrogant on December 14, 2012 at 8:56 PM

^^ What I meant to express earlier.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:20 AM

“we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.” He called the shooting a “heinous crime” against “beautiful little kids.”

Said Obama while he also advocates leaving “beautiful little kids” in buckets and broomclosets to perish without any aid and assistance after birth despite being attempted to be aborted.

You know, those “punishment” children that Obama doesn’t think deserve to live because he thinks they’re a cumbersome dependent.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:26 AM

AND ANOTHER THING:

the culprit today didn’t use an “automatic weapon,” he had one at his disposal, taken from his mother along with the other guns he used, but left (the automatic weapon) in the car he drove to the scene of the crime.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:19 AM

The assault weapon was not used in this crime. It was left in the lunatics car.

Mr. Arrogant on December 14, 2012 at 8:56 PM
^^ What I meant to express earlier.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 5:20 AM

It was neither, you ignorant fools. It was a semi-automatic rifle, of a type similar but distinctly differing from automatic and 3-rd-burst mode rifles used by the military. ‘Semi-automatic’ means one trigger pull = one shot fired. ‘auto-loading’ while technically accurate is a term of distortive art used by gun banners to get the ‘automatic’ into the audiences’ ear / mind. ‘automatic’ weapons are machineguns. One trigger pull and the weapon fires until the magazine or ammunition belt is expended, or until the trigger is released, whichever comes first. Automatic weapons are available with several limits, checks and a $200 federal tax AND if the buyer can afford the artificially grossly inflated price of them, in about 40 States of this Union.
‘Assault weapon’ is also a term of art of the gun banners. ‘Assault weapons’ or more correctly ‘assault rifles’ are technically magazine fed, use an intermediate cartridge, AND ARE SELECT-FIRE, switchable from semi-automatic mode to full auto or 3rd burst. Military M-16s, M-4s, fit this categorization. The semi-auto-ONLY rifles legal in heavily restricted Connecticut are NOT ‘assault rifles’ or ‘automatic’ rifles.

Learn the proper terms and their meanings. Learn the propaganda of the Left / gun banners. Learn it so you can tell when you are being lied to or deliberately misinformed or led astray in your reactions. Learn it so you can tell when someone is clueless and full of shit about what they are opining about.

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 6:04 AM

… or reporting to you as ‘journalism’. Or while pretending to be a media consultant / “weapons expert”.

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 6:06 AM

These idiots specifically ignore the fact that SCOTOS told congress that they cant BAN guns and gun possession in DC Vs HELLER. The FEDERAL courts ALSO told Illinois that they cant BAN/prohibit basic CHL law. These people dont udnerstand that the constitution protects gun rights. They cant pass, and we dont NEED more than the 22,000 firearms laws we already have on the books.

TX-96 on December 15, 2012 at 6:17 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment, the call will be for more gun control after am incident like this, if conservatives insit on a totally individualist approach to society, than people will pursue individualist rather than systemic solutions. The systemic solution is universal healthcare with mental health provisions. But you fought that. So now low imfo America is gonna come for your guns.

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

So now low imfo America is gonna come for your guns.

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

you display such little understanding of the world around you. exacltly the kind of brain i would expect voted for obama.

renalin on December 15, 2012 at 6:48 AM

The semi-auto-ONLY rifles legal in heavily restricted Connecticut are NOT ‘assault rifles’ or ‘automatic’ rifles.

Learn the proper terms and their meanings. Learn the propaganda of the Left / gun banners. Learn it so you can tell when you are being lied to or deliberately misinformed or led astray in your reactions. Learn it so you can tell when someone is clueless and full of shit about what they are opining about.

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 6:04 AM

My suggestion to you is that you redirect your hateful pejorative (“you ignorant fools”) to those like Bloomberg and Obama and the anti-2nd Amendment Leftwingers and try and exercise a tad of consideration for internet comments in general who are making a bigger point than you seem capable of understanding other than those about “specs”.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 6:59 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

NOT AT ALL TRUE. There are a plethora of “psychologists” and “counselors” and people calling themselves “therapists” in every single yellow-pages of every phone book nationwide. As to “psychiatrists,” you can find a lot of those, too, generally in urban areas mostly because those are people with medical degrees so they have bigger debts to pay and increased responsibilities in the ethical and medical areas. But they’re available by simple searches for them.

And all of the above generally make appointments for new patients.

So it’s not true that it’s ‘not easy to find mental health treatment.’ Anyone CAN “find mental health treatment” with a telephone and some simple searching of listings within any area.

Guns, on the other hand, require a heavier burden of “get”. You can’t just call a number and get one in the next few days as you can an appointment with a “mental health” source.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 7:03 AM

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 6:04 AM

… or reporting to you as ‘journalism’. Or while pretending to be a media consultant / “weapons expert”.

rayra on December 15, 2012 at 6:06 AM

Maybe you should reconsider owning if not using firearms yourself. Temper, temper.

Lourdes on December 15, 2012 at 7:05 AM

So now low imfo America is gonna come for your guns.

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

I’m renewing my NRA membership.

Does this seem cold?

What happened was absolutely horrific. I can barely look at the pictures.
but no matter how horrific a crime my empathy, sympathy and rage stops when someone wants to take away my rights to protect myself and my family from the same kind of madman as punishment.

Creating more sheep will not stop this.

I’m going all the way here…. I’ve commented many times in the past about our mental health system. I’ve got 17 years social service experience. Nearly 8 years working as a MH caseworker. I’ve worked with the state police during crisis situations (evaluating people in crisis). I’ve been one of 3 signatures that was needed for involuntary commitment. I have worked with parole officers. I have visited MH clients in jails. I’ve worked with pedophiles, felons, suicidal and homicidal individuals. I’ve had so many trainings in MH I’ve lost count.

There’s a part of me that wants to just stop commenting about this. I think.. what’s the use. But I go on and keep repeating myself in the hopes that more people might realize what is going on here with the MH system.
I resigned as a caseworker over 3 years ago because I was just fed up with it. Absolutely fed up. I did not want to be the caseworker of some madman like this. I did not want to wake up one day and read that someone on my caseload had just gone into a mall or a school and blew people away. Honestly.. I am surprised this doesn’t happened more often.

Listen… in an official meeting in my agency my director told everyone sitting there… almost word for word.. “I don’t care if one of your clients is robbing banks and during your visit you see where he is hiding the money… you will say nothing!” My immediate response was “I’ll take a jury trial on that one.”

The last individual I was going to be given was too much for me. This individual was actively selling drugs.. had murdered people in the past (in and out of prison) and was wanted on charges for something in another state… but by law I could not call that state and say “Here is your individual.” It was all right there on paper. And my job was to assist this person to live independently in the community. I handed in my resignation 2 days later.

This not about the gun.
We have released violent dangerous people from hospitals and have put them into the community. We are refusing to hospital violent and dangerous individuals and are allowing them to live in the community. And individuals who are in jail are being released so they can be “treated” (what a joke) because.. since they have a mental health diagnosis.. “jail isn’t the right place for them.”

Heck… in the one city I worked in… they actually have a separate mental health court. I still have the papers on it. If you come through the court system and are discovered to have a MH diagnosis.. you go to the MH court instead. Why? For leniency.

So why is all this happening? Some of it is pure ignorance. Some of it is that too many people have drank the kool-aid and think long term hospitalization is mean. but, my own opinion… just my own gut instinct…. it’s for a more insidious purpose. Releasing and allowing violent people to roam the community causes more crime and more turmoil. Just like Fast and Furious… lets create the crisis.. so we can use it.

That last part is just my opinion. But liberals have a history.

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 7:26 AM

Evil exists. My take.

kingsjester on December 15, 2012 at 7:27 AM

Funny that in all our history we, as a people, have had plenty of guns. When did the shootings in schools start? Do just automatic weapons drive people to do this? How much do violent sick movies contribute to this sickness. Let’s ban political hate speech such as saying a man killed a steelworkers wife or class warfare plus promoting racial strife such as calling a football player “too white” ala C N N. Look in the mirror Libs!

Herb on December 15, 2012 at 7:33 AM

the answer isn’t to ban anything. When in the history of the world has banning something worked?

There Is No Answer. Insane people do insane things, and lefties ultimately embrace it anyway because population control is their goal. They hate the human species. Conservatives? Well, they just have to carry on and pray. It’s all we can do.

Slade73 on December 15, 2012 at 7:40 AM

Evil exists. My take.

kingsjester on December 15, 2012 at 7:27 AM

Always enjoy your writing.

Funny that in all our history we, as a people, have had plenty of guns. When did the shootings in schools start? Do just automatic weapons drive people to do this? How much do violent sick movies contribute to this sickness. Let’s ban political hate speech such as saying a man killed a steelworkers wife or class warfare plus promoting racial strife such as calling a football player “too white” ala C N N. Look in the mirror Libs!

Herb on December 15, 2012 at 7:33 AM

I remember when I was young, it was common to go to a friend’s house and see 5-6 rifles just leaning in the corner of someone’s living room. Everybody had a gun cabinet.. and it was always in the living room. Nobody had a gun safe. Wasn’t even thought of. Also… guns in back of pick-ups… in the window gun racks. I haven’t seen a pick-up truck with a gun rack in the window in years.

Our High School had a shooting range in the basement. I have a picture of the door and range. Got to tour my school with a few people this past year. They are in the process of tearing it down. But there it still was.. our school gun range. Also.. our school had hunter safety classes and I still remember people bringing their hunting rifles to school for the class.

We never had a single shooting. Why is that? What has changed?

Well.. I can tell you… we had school prayer. We had moments of silence. We had Christmas concerts not “Winter Solstice” concerts. We did have school fights.. and if there was a fist fight between two kids.. the teachers grabbed the one who started it and the other guy went on his merry way. Nobody got a felony conviction for defending themselves. Students had pocket knives. We had prayer at graduations.

So what didn’t we have that they have now? We didn’t have classes on self esteem. We didn’t watch porn for health class. We didn’t have “no bully zones.” We didn’t have “gun free zones.” We didn’t have teen pregnancies and we didn’t have teen moms giving birth in the school toilets and trying to flush their baby down the drain! And most of all we didn’t have school shootings!

So if we really want to solve the problem… we need to go back to the time when we didn’t have it! Sometimes going forward means going back to where you took the wrong turn and then take the right turn!

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 7:53 AM

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 7:53 AM

Thank you, my friend.

kingsjester on December 15, 2012 at 7:57 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment, the call will be for more gun control after am incident like this, if conservatives insit on a totally individualist approach to society, than people will pursue individualist rather than systemic solutions. The systemic solution is universal healthcare with mental health provisions. But you fought that. So now low imfo America is gonna come for your guns.

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

I see one of your lovers is posting under your nic again.

You have your talking points down. Not much new here. Embarrassing.

CW on December 15, 2012 at 7:59 AM

School shootings are actually very rare. There’s probably a higher probability of kids dying in school bus accidents.

Slade73 on December 15, 2012 at 8:00 AM

The dirty little secret is that the same leftist culture the breeds this type of wacko activity…..also gives us much of the current political leadership of the country. It is undeniable !!

So do we look to government for solutions ??

We are in a terrible fix Ollie !

BigSven on December 15, 2012 at 8:14 AM

what kind of person sees this much death and pain, and immediately seeks political capital? What kind of people are Michael Moore, Piers Morgan, Mia Farrow, Evan Rachel Wood, Michele Branch, Rashida Jones, Patton Oswalt, Alec Baldwin…..

Slade73 on December 15, 2012 at 8:15 AM

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

So are you telling me this fellow who shot all of those children didn’t have access to mental healthcare under his mom’s policy ….her being a teacher and all? I’d like to see some documentation…..I’ll wait.

CW on December 15, 2012 at 8:16 AM

His mom wasn’t a teacher at Sandy Hook. Just one of the many details the press got wrong in their rush to frame this tragedy toward Barack Obama’s agenda.

Slade73 on December 15, 2012 at 8:18 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

Quit blaming Samuel Colt for your medical problems.

viking01 on December 15, 2012 at 8:19 AM

what kind of person sees this much death and pain, and immediately seeks political capital? What kind of people are Michael Moore, Piers Morgan, Mia Farrow, Evan Rachel Wood, Michele Branch, Rashida Jones, Patton Oswalt, Alec Baldwin…..

Slade73 on December 15, 2012 at 8:15 AM

They’re the lowest of the low, the whole lot of them. Horrors like this are free face time on the air and free advertising by ‘weighing in’. They just couldn’t be satisfied with saying they grieve with the families and just leave their ‘statements’ at that.

The same with the trolls here yesterday. One was downright nasty, looking to start arguments. Another said he hopes Conservatives resist if an effort at confiscation is attempted. They were really ugly. You would think that when everyone here was feeling awful about the tragedy without trying to make politics a part of it, the trolls would put away their agendas for just a few days.

Then again, I guess they wouldn’t be liberal trolls if they couldn’t kick well-meaning people when they’re feeling low.

Liam on December 15, 2012 at 8:29 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

It is easier to get gas, knives , pitchforks, fishing string, baseball bats etc….. hmmmm.

Your stupidity knows no bounds. Embarrassing.

CW on December 15, 2012 at 8:30 AM

Liam on December 15, 2012 at 8:29 AM

someone called nonpartisan I think was being really disgusting. They will have to live with themselves. They will endure judgement, be it God or Karma.

Slade73 on December 15, 2012 at 8:36 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

You can get MH treatment as easy as buying candy. They will give you a diagnosis like a loll-pop. No problem. And with it you get a “get out of jail free” card, free meds, free therapy, free psychiatry and a free caseworker.

The question is.. what good is it? What kind of psychiatry are you getting. What’s the therapist re-enforcing in you and hiding from the community? What is the agency hiding from the community? What are the medications doing to your brain?

I had a pedophile on my caseload. He had multiple victims and I got him when his prison term was up. This pedophile told me one day that his therapist said to him… “You know.. not all those teens and children (that you did it to) were victims. Some were consensual.” I was shocked! Dumbfounded. And this was a therapist in our agency being paid with county and state money.

As I’ve repeated so often, and am about done for awhile…. don’t let anyone tell you these people, if they were on MH medications, are loners. They cannot be. They got their meds from somebody. A psychiatrist… and if they have a MH diagnosis that means they have, most likely, a caseworker and a whole MH agency behind them. And that agency, most likely, has been hearing about suicidal ideations and that he/she has been making vague or specific threats about going on rampages ans so forth… and when one of these people finally do it…. the media says “loner” but they aren’t. There was a whole government MH agency who knew and they step silently back into the shadows and no one in the community ever hears about it or knows about it.

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 8:51 AM

I think it is way to easy for people to take the wrong options…whether it be a shooting, suicide or just thinking you should have a good seat after coming into late for your kids play.

People expect things now…right now. I think one of the casualties of the dot.com boom is the sense of proportionality.

tomas on December 15, 2012 at 8:57 AM

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 7:26 AM

Your feelings are not all that uncommon, at least in my experience. Over the years, I have watched several friends become so disenchanted with government mental and social service programs that they quit their profession out of good conscience.

petefrt on December 15, 2012 at 9:01 AM

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

You are a problem. I have your cure.

Bmore on December 15, 2012 at 9:04 AM

I have a problem with those against gun bans being considered part of the “huge gun lobby”. The only way I belong to a gun lobby is if you consider ownership of guns a blanket membership. I think Prof. Sabato is wrong, Congress doesn’t fear some lobby, it fears its constituents. It appears to be the one and only issue we can get them to hears us and that will probably change.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2012 at 9:13 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment, the call will be for more gun control after am incident like this, if conservatives insit on a totally individualist approach to society, than people will pursue individualist rather than systemic solutions. The systemic solution is universal healthcare with mental health provisions. But you fought that. So now low imfo America is gonna come for your guns.

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

LOL . . . I was wondering how long it was going to take before we started hearing this from the left. “Oh if only we had universal healthcare, there wouldn’t be any more crazy people on the loose.”

You’re making an awful lot of assumptions here, leftie. One is that this guy lacked access to mental health care. How do you know? You don’t know his personal financial situation, or the situation of his parents. You don’t know whether he had access and just didn’t avail himself of it. He was over the legal age of majority. How are you to MAKE someone seek treatment who doesn’t want it? It’s quite a legal burden to go to court and prove an adult should be placed into guardianship for their own protection and protection of others. What will happen under Obamacare? Will we just skip that step and let IPAB decide who gets committed to the booby hatch and who doesn’t? I think we saw what the results of that were about 80 years or so ago in Europe. Is that what you advocate returning to?

NoLeftTurn on December 15, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Newtown and the other recent mass murders indicate that gun free zones need an armed marshall or two to protect people within the zone. Otherwise, people there are totally defenseless against a shooter, and shooters are attracted to gun-free zones for that very reason.

One useful parallel is on-board airline security and the air marshal program.

Banning gun sales is an unserious response. Already murder is against the law, and you see what good that does.

petefrt on December 15, 2012 at 9:19 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

Yeah.. and when it’s easier for the administration to create crime than it is to stop crime then we have a serious problem in this country.. and it’s not our gun laws. It’s with our government.

I’m talking about Fast and Furious.. lest we forget.

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 9:50 AM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

Yeah.. and when it’s easier for the administration to create crime than it is to stop crime then we have a serious problem in this country.. and it’s not our gun laws. It’s with our government.

I’m talking about Fast and Furious.. lest we forget.

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 9:50 AM

Went it’s easier to kill some Pakistanis with a drone……

CW on December 15, 2012 at 10:03 AM

*When(not went)

CW on December 15, 2012 at 10:10 AM

if this 20 year old was suffering from some severe form of psychiatric disturbance and getting professional help for it- as far as i know- most psychiatric hospitals and professionals will not let a person being treated (especially one with a condition that includes anti-social behaviors or an inability to connect and have empathy for other people) live in a home with guns in them. if a person is hospitalized and was suicidal they used to not release you to live in a location unless all the guns were determined to have been removed. any way- that’s what used to be done.

but if lanza as an adult wasn’t receiving treatment- he sounds social dysfunctional with sociopathic tendencies like most mass murderers – or was refusing treatment as was his right as an adult, no one would have paid attention to him living with his mother’s legal guns. his brother knew instantly that his sibling was the cause of all this evil so one assumes his brother regarded him as disturbed. anti-social and extremely and unnaturally dysfunctional young men in particular- those alienated from their peers and the rest of society- should be seen as being at great risk with any access to fire arms in their homes. were his parents shielding him from professional help since childhood? sounds like all the signals were their for him to go off. having guns near him was monumentally and tragically ill considered.

the problem here is not guns-it never was. he could have built bombs from household items and killed as many if not more people. or serial arson- should be ban matches? the problem is how our society does not deal with indicators of sociopathy. our attitudes toward mental health and its treatment need a re-alignment. but as our society becomes more narcissistic at the core, those with disorders that involve serious NPD which is often coupled with sociopathy are ignored and left untreated, they blend in although sometimes jarringly with the rest of the malignant narcissists until they break out in unimaginable violence against others. it’s his sociopathic tendencies not autism or guns that should be the focus.

obamacare of course insufficiently covers serious psychiatric problems.

mittens on December 15, 2012 at 10:17 AM

I don’t know if anyone else has linked this but the worst school massacre was in 1927 and done with dynamite.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2012 at 10:53 AM

none of the most casualty heavy mass murder incidents including 9/11 were done with firearms. period.

“Feelings of rejection, failure, and loss of autonomy create frustrations that inevitably overwhelm them [mass murderers], and they experience a need to strike back. And for many of these killers the best way to lash out against a cold, forbidding society is to destroy its children. Gunning down children on a schoolyard not only provides the needed sense of power and control but is also a way of wreaking vengeance where it hurts the community most.”

-p.11, “Serial Murderers and Their Victims”, Eric W. Hickey.

mittens on December 15, 2012 at 10:56 AM

A good resource: Does Gun Control Equal Crime Control?

petefrt on December 15, 2012 at 11:04 AM

I remember when I was young, it was common to go to a friend’s house and see 5-6 rifles just leaning in the corner of someone’s living room. Everybody had a gun cabinet.. and it was always in the living room. Nobody had a gun safe. Wasn’t even thought of. Also… guns in back of pick-ups… in the window gun racks. I haven’t seen a pick-up truck with a gun rack in the window in years.

Our High School had a shooting range in the basement. I have a picture of the door and range. Got to tour my school with a few people this past year. They are in the process of tearing it down. But there it still was.. our school gun range. Also.. our school had hunter safety classes and I still remember people bringing their hunting rifles to school for the class.

We never had a single shooting. Why is that? What has changed?

Well.. I can tell you… we had school prayer. We had moments of silence. We had Christmas concerts not “Winter Solstice” concerts. We did have school fights.. and if there was a fist fight between two kids.. the teachers grabbed the one who started it and the other guy went on his merry way. Nobody got a felony conviction for defending themselves. Students had pocket knives. We had prayer at graduations.

So what didn’t we have that they have now? We didn’t have classes on self esteem. We didn’t watch porn for health class. We didn’t have “no bully zones.” We didn’t have “gun free zones.” We didn’t have teen pregnancies and we didn’t have teen moms giving birth in the school toilets and trying to flush their baby down the drain! And most of all we didn’t have school shootings!

So if we really want to solve the problem… we need to go back to the time when we didn’t have it! Sometimes going forward means going back to where you took the wrong turn and then take the right turn!

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 7:53 AM

Same here guy – not the in school shooting range but everything else. We built guns in metal shop and stocks in wood shop. Most kids old enough to drive carried guns every day because we worked the ranch b4 and after school before going home.

Only shooings I remember from middle school through college were either city folks shooting each other because they looked like deer or lovers/extra lovers fights

koaiko on December 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM

So if we really want to solve the problem… we need to go back to the time when we didn’t have it! Sometimes going forward means going back to where you took the wrong turn and then take the right turn!

JellyToast on December 15, 2012 at 7:53 AM

Deinstitutionalization was based on the principle that severe mental illness should be treated in the least restrictive setting. As further defined by President Jimmy Carter’s Commission on Mental Health, this ideology rested on “the objective of maintaining the greatest degree of freedom, self-determination, autonomy, dignity, and integrity of body, mind, and spirit for the individual while he or she participates in treatment or receives services.”

Oh, Jimmy… another one of your legacies.

Fallon on December 15, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Not many people want to take away your little toys and sense of power, only the far left dreams of a gun free America. Bob Costas and others are proposing sensible regulation on the types of weapons with easy reach of your suburban nut job.

bayam on December 15, 2012 at 10:06 AM

What do the Columbine shooters, Cho, Loughner, Holmes, Lanza, and almost all of these rampage killers have in common?

They are psychotic and exhibited signs of the serious and dangerous nature of their mental break long before they picked up a gun. When Bob Costas and others start proposing fundamental reforms to how we deal with the mentally ill, who are clear and present dangers to society, then I’ll pay attention to them. When Bob Costas and others put the rights of 20 innocent children to live over the “rights” of a “nut job,” then I’ll believe that they honestly want to prevent these types of shootings and aren’t seeking to collectively punish the law-abiding for the actions of those that they, themselves, have enabled.

Common sense is quite nearly illegal nowadays and it’s certainly unfashionable in the Obama Age. So the usual liberal dingbats — including the ACLU types who assured us it was “a fearless, independent life style” for a crazy woman to defecate in public on the streets of Manahattan — are telling us we need more gun control.

“Chris Rock was right: ‘Whatever happened to ‘crazy’? . . . What? You can’t be crazy no more? Did we eliminate ‘crazy’ from the dictionary?’”

Resist We Much on December 15, 2012 at 12:11 PM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment…

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

Luv, you really should study schizophrenia and also mental health/committment laws.

Loughner, Holmes, Cho, Lanza, etc, all had access to mental health treatment. Schizophrenics often REFUSE to take medication because they believe that doctors, family, spouses, etc, are trying to poison or “mind control” them and many courts will not order commitment or forced medication because of mentally ill person’s rights. BTW, Holmes WAS getting psych treatment up until the weeks before he broke.

Eric Harris, the mastermind behind Columbine, died with prescribed psychotropic drugs in his system.

Maybe, you idiots should stop it with the moral equivalence and “hey, no one behaviour or lifestyle choice is any better than another” bullshyte. When you defend the right of the nuts to refuse treatment and to live amongst us, then you reap what you sow.

Resist We Much on December 15, 2012 at 12:25 PM

President Barack Obama’s call for “meaningful action”

If he were a decent man, alas, he’d have simply said “I express my deep regrets and condolences, for my family and the country. Our thoughts and prayers are with the greiving families”.

This is a charlatan of the first degree. The bodies were not even cold and many, him included, had politics on their minds. To Hades with you all, Bloomberg first. You are animals, hyenas.

lib’free’, you’re wanted in the Snyder threat thread. Show some decency.

Schadenfreude on December 15, 2012 at 1:01 PM

For the leftist hyenas

Schadenfreude on December 15, 2012 at 1:01 PM

McCain Hater on December 15

So, can I assume you voted for the hot chick in ’08?

Lanceman on December 15, 2012 at 12:11 AM

You may assume what you want, but no I held my nose and bit my tongue and voted for for Mccain. I may never do that again but rather just not vote.

McCain Hater on December 15, 2012 at 1:39 PM

When it’s easier to get guns than mental health treatment, the call will be for more gun control after am incident like this, if conservatives insit on a totally individualist approach to society, than people will pursue individualist rather than systemic solutions. The systemic solution is universal healthcare with mental health provisions. But you fought that. So now low imfo America is gonna come for your guns.

libfreeordie on December 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM

America is not gonna come for any guns. Of course hard core progressives will try but a majority of Americans are against more restrictive gun control. What may happen is a push for more restrictions and institutionalization of the mentally ill, although I doubt that will succeed either.

The obvious and easiest path will be to require armed police at every public school in America. This makes sense considering the children’s safety at public school is the states responsibility, not private citizens who own guns or even the parents. This may gain support because it would also help prevent gangs from gaining access to schools in more urban areas, and it would help protect the schools from a possible organized terrorist or Jihadist attack. Schools are after all a prime soft target.

William Eaton on December 15, 2012 at 1:52 PM

Obama DELIBERATELY CREATED the conditions that FACILITATED the Slaughter of Children in Connecticut….why is NO ONE Covering THIS Story?:

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure

williamg on December 15, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Interesting;

“A nationally recognized school security expert said those funds had been critical for years in helping schools continue to enhance protections against growing threats of violence. But they simply dried up with little notice as the Columbine and Virginia Tech school shooting tragedies faded from memory and many Americans and political leaders had their attentions diverted to elections, a weak economy and overseas dramas.

“I was baffled to see funds and programs cut in these areas,” said Kenneth Trump, the president of the National School Safety and Security Services firm that helps school districts and policymakers improve protections for teachers and students. “Our political and policy leaders need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk about being concerned about school safety.”

karra on December 15, 2012 at 5:54 PM

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