Great news: Your permanent record is now available on demand

posted at 10:01 am on December 13, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Remember when government needed something called a warrant or even probable cause to look at your records?  Good times, good times.  I’m nostalgic for the halcyon days of, er, February of this year, before the Attorney General of the United States signed off on an order allowing the government to access pretty much everything it wanted in the name of counterterrorism.  The Wall Street Journal found out about the order and got a FOIA request to force its exposure:

Top U.S. intelligence officials gathered in the White House Situation Room in March to debate a controversial proposal. Counterterrorism officials wanted to create a government dragnet, sweeping up millions of records about U.S. citizens—even people suspected of no crime.

Not everyone was on board. “This is a sea change in the way that the government interacts with the general public,” Mary Ellen Callahan, chief privacy officer of the Department of Homeland Security, argued in the meeting, according to people familiar with the discussions.

A week later, the attorney general signed the changes into effect.

Through Freedom of Information Act requests and interviews with officials at numerous agencies, The Wall Street Journal has reconstructed the clash over the counterterrorism program within the administration of President Barack Obama. The debate was a confrontation between some who viewed it as a matter of efficiency—how long to keep data, for instance, or where it should be stored—and others who saw it as granting authority for unprecedented government surveillance of U.S. citizens.

The rules now allow the little-known National Counterterrorism Center to examine the government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them. That is a departure from past practice, which barred the agency from storing information about ordinary Americans unless a person was a terror suspect or related to an investigation.

Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others. The agency has new authority to keep data about innocent U.S. citizens for up to five years, and to analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior. Previously, both were prohibited. Data about Americans “reasonably believed to constitute terrorism information” may be permanently retained.

Well, hey, we can trust the American government to handle this properly, soberly, and with caution, right?  At least the data will stay with accountable US officials.  Whew.  That’s a load off of my mind — er, what’s that? Um …

The changes also allow databases of U.S. civilian information to be given to foreign governments for analysis of their own. In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes.

“It’s breathtaking” in its scope, said a former senior administration official familiar with the White House debate.

The good news: Saudi Arabia might now have all of our firearm registration data.  What could go wrong?

Say, remember when Congress used to be involved in writing laws and making policy in the US?  Good times, good times.  Perhaps Congress might want to investigate what the Department of Justice and the National Counterterrorism Center has been doing with the 4th Amendment.  Eric Holder should be subpoenaed and forced to testify under oath about his order, and find out whether Congress got consulted or bypassed entirely on this decision.

It’s interesting how all this came out after the election, huh?  Maybe the name “Julia” for one of Barack Obama’s campaign themes was well chosen.

Update: A couple of commenters blame the Patriot Act for this move.  However, the Patriot Act was passed by Congress, and has been extended and somewhat limited by Congress in multiple extensions.  Congress can repeal it at any time, just as they can any statute.  Regardless of the debatable wisdom of the Patriot Act — which I supported at those times — it didn’t give the executive branch carte blanche to access records without some sort of probable cause, nor share those records with foreign governments, and it didn’t get imposed unilaterally by the executive branch. This is a completely new abuse of power, and Congress should be furious over it, as should the rest of us.


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Maybe the name “Julia” for one of Barack Obama’s campaign themes was well chosen.

See, in light of this, I’d personally have gone with “quisling”…

psrch on December 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM

You simply don’t get it, and you show no signs that you ever will.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Coming from a myopic fool such as yourself, that’s high praise.

steebo77 on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Nooo…my response is that there are no differences between the two parties; they are the exact same. There is no “worse” or “better”; that’s a game you guys like to play when struggling with cognitive dissonance.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Can we dispense with this ridiculous argument once and for all?

We get it, you don’t have the intelligence to discern the massive difference between the two sides, but why do you have to bore us all with one of the most un-profound “profundity” in history?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:49 AM

name us those conservatives that praise FDR dante

DanMan on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

SWalker on December 13, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Can I bunk up with you? It’s either you or RS McCain.

Ed Morrissey on December 13, 2012 at 10:50 AM

ROTFLMAO… I was just about to ask you the same thing for the exact same reason… lol lol

SWalker on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

For all you happy Dante bashers, I think he doesn’t want to imply that Obama is somehow better than Bush. He might be a duped participant in Obamization of America but painting him as Obama supporter is taking it a bridge too far into tinfoil-hat territory. I think he tries to imply – not unreasonably, in my humble opinion – that in matters pertaining to personal freedom, there is no daylight between Bush and Obama.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Further, the point of my original comment was pretty obvious, and wasn’t about Bush, but about the selective outrage; that is, it’s hypocritical to complain about these 4th Amendment, other Constitutional infringements, and tyrannical acts while constantly defending the Patriot Act, the DHS, and the TSA.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Belafonte, what happens to a person spending his privileged life in show business. Up from nothing to fame and riches in a racist, oppressive country.

Another example of the disease known as liberalism.

Thanks, Coldwarrior.

FOWG1 on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:44 AM

So after the attacks of 9/11, what would you have done?

dmann on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I supported Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. You?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Who’s Gary Johnson? I saw one sign with his name, but don’t know a single thing about him. Why in the world would I vote for someone I know absolutely nothing about?

dominigan on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

We get it, you don’t have the intelligence to discern the massive difference between the two sides, but why do you have to bore us all with one of the most un-profound “profundity” in history?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Massive difference? Really?

There are no two sides.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:44 AM

So after the attacks of 9/11, what would you have done?

dmann on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Why, invite Bin Laden over for a Marijuana summit of course.

SWalker on December 13, 2012 at 10:56 AM

What about unfriendly commenters on a conservative blog?

Night Owl on December 13, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Now, now, don’t be paranoid.

While I’m at it, I would like to personally take this opportunity to say that I was just joking when I wrote anything such as: Big Mooch, Queen Lardassia, Barry the anti-American, lying …. dirtball…douchebag…etc. Or any talk about succession or revolution or weapons or any such thing.
Hahaha.

justltl on December 13, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Who’s Gary Johnson? I saw one sign with his name, but don’t know a single thing about him. Why in the world would I vote for someone I know absolutely nothing about?

dominigan on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I’m not responsible for your ignorance; only you can cure that.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:56 AM

If the Oppressive-left can go back that long, why can’t we go back some of FDR’s transgressions?

The Otyrant is in charge NOW – just because someone else took a marginally similar action in the past doesn’t absolve him of the responsibility of what his regime is doing NOW.

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Well, I’ve tried that, and so-called conservatives keep defending FDR, from his interventionism to his internment camps.

How about you go back a little further and take a look at Lincoln and Jackson?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:49 AM

You’re the one dredgeing up the past.

Just curious, what exactly do you consider yourself to be?

Conservative?

Marxist?

Oppressive?

Anarchist?

What are you?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I think he tries to imply – not unreasonably, in my humble opinion – that in matters pertaining to personal freedom, there is no daylight between Bush and Obama.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 10:51 AM

ever see him denigrate a dem like he does a repub Arch? me neither. anarchist is probably a good description though. fun punching bag too.

DanMan on December 13, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Sorry about that cold warrior

cmsinaz on December 13, 2012 at 10:58 AM

We get it, you don’t have the intelligence to discern the massive difference between the two sides, but why do you have to bore us all with one of the most un-profound “profundity” in history?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Massive difference? Really?

There are no two sides.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Thank you for affirming my contention about you.

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:59 AM

I supported Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. You?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Who’s Gary Johnson? I saw one sign with his name, but don’t know a single thing about him. Why in the world would I vote for someone I know absolutely nothing about?

dominigan on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I can see reasonable merit in supporting Ron Paul, but Gary Johnson? The failed Republican candidate who called for fiscal prudence but couldn’t keep his own campaign in the black? The same Gary Johnson who said that “nobody in the banking industry committed any crimes”? Oh man, if you Libertarians choose a sacrificial figurehead, at least get yourself a worthier one.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Just curious, what exactly do you consider yourself to be?

Conservative?

Marxist?

Oppressive?

Anarchist?

What are you?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Dante refused to vote for President since Ron Paul didn’t get the nomination so…… All of the above.

Happy Nomad on December 13, 2012 at 11:02 AM

BS Dante.

hawkdriver on December 13, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Used to be a free country. No more.

Rogervzv on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

name us those conservatives that praise FDR dante

DanMan on December 13, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Well, we can start with Michelle Malkin and her book, “In Defense of Internment”. We can also point to hawkdriver and other so-called conservatives here who refuse to hold FDR and his interventionism accountable into provoking the attack on Pearl Harbor (and by extension, Wilson’s interventionism into WWI, which led to WWII).

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

I guess we can officially date the death of one of the Constitution’s prime amendments in the Bill of rights.

So much for So-called “Liberals” being about the preservation of liberty.

It should be clear that the Oppressive-Left’s goal is simply power – pure raw power to do what they will.

Their labeling and pretenses about freedom are simply window dressing on tyranny.

Do they really think they can make this work? Do they really think that they won’t inevitably go the way of tyrants of the storied past?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

ever see him denigrate a dem like he does a repub Arch? me neither. anarchist is probably a good description though. fun punching bag too.

DanMan on December 13, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Ever see him quote a multiplication table? I mean, why arguing for the obvious? Most dems don’t need our denigration – they’re doing it just fine on their own “merit”. On the other hand, many people here do lose the focus on how far the GOP has moved from the positions it was expected to represent.

Shy of his thoroughly insane foreign policy, I don’t have any major disagreements with Ron Paul’s platform. Small government, personal freedom, fiscal restraint, staunch pro-life – what’s not to like, really? It’s the fact that most of them switched to Gary Johnson that I find speaking for their, ahem, let’s call it immaturity.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

You’re the one dredgeing up the past.

Just curious, what exactly do you consider yourself to be?

Conservative?

Marxist?

Oppressive?

Anarchist?

What are you?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Anarcho-capitalist.

What are you? It’s certainly not conservative.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Can’t you at least make the pretense of staying on topic?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:08 AM

I can see reasonable merit in supporting Ron Paul, but Gary Johnson? The failed Republican candidate who called for fiscal prudence but couldn’t keep his own campaign in the black? The same Gary Johnson who said that “nobody in the banking industry committed any crimes”? Oh man, if you Libertarians choose a sacrificial figurehead, at least get yourself a worthier one.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Apart from policies, part of it is also due to the stranglehold over the debates (with a complicit media, of course) in denying Americans other views, falsely presenting an either/or choice.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:09 AM

dominigan on December 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Had dinner with Gary, about a week before the election.

Spent an afternoon with Judge Grey in September.

Both were Republican, both were GOP to the core.

Both are now very much Libertarian, and even after the election, both are still out there, educating, pressing the message, and trying to get more Americans to understand, in a polite discourse, why there is no difference at all between the Democrat party and the Republican party.

Individual liberty with responsibility, respect for others inalienable rights and property, allowing those who chose to try and fail without having to have government bail them out, and to allow those who take the risk to derive the benefits of those risks….pretty much how de Tocqueville saw America nearly 150 years ago.

Neither one is a kook, neither one is off the rails.

Less government, more individual freedom (and responsibility) is that such a bad thing?

As for the pot and prostitution argument…what business it it of the federal government, anyway? Same as just about everything welse government has grown into as effects our lives….what we can eat, what we can drink, what we can wear, where we can work, and the list is almost endless now that government has decided to forget the Constitution and rule by fiat.

BTW, Gary spent less than $3 million and garnered the largest Libertarian vote, ever…well over a million votes. A good start. The other candidates spent over $3billion…so far as we know.

Don’t know Gary?

Take the time. He is a very likeable self-made businessman, former excellent governor, and friend.

coldwarrior on December 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM

What are you? It’s certainly not conservative.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:07 AM

And how do you know that?

Why are we even bothering to talk to you – you’ve admitted that you don’t have the intellectual capacity to discern the difference between the two parties.

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Ok, let’s find out from all of you so-called conservatives:

Who here is opposed to the Patriot Act, those who voted for it and those who have voted to extend it?

Who here is opposed to the existence of the DHS and the TSA?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others.

WTF?

VegasRick on December 13, 2012 at 11:11 AM

who refuse to hold FDR and his interventionism accountable into provoking the attack on Pearl Harbor (and by extension, Wilson’s interventionism into WWI, which led to WWII).

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

So the US started WW2, provoked Pearl Harbor, 911 was ‘blowback’…?

Surely there must be a way for you to lay the blame for World War One on America’s doorstep? Be inventive Dante!

sharrukin on December 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Homeland Security is hiring pre-cogs, but conservatives need not apply.

KS Rex on December 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Belafonte’s Advice to Obama: Imprison Opposition “Like a Third World Dictator” (Video)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/belafonte-advice-to-obama-imprison-opposition-like-a-third-world-dictator-video/

Enlightened Marxist Harry Belafonte was on with pal Al Sharpton this week. His advice for Obama was to imprison opposition like a “third world dictator.”

Southern by choice22 on December 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Shy of his thoroughly insane foreign policy…what’s not to like, really? It’s the fact that most of them switched to Gary Johnson that I find speaking for their, ahem, let’s call it immaturity.

hmmm, thoroughly insane and immature. A couple of qualities that weigh heavily on the discussion. To borrow from you, doubt there’s any daylight politically between you and I. Dante? ahem

DanMan on December 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM

For all you happy Dante bashers, I think he doesn’t want to imply that Obama is somehow better than Bush. He might be a duped participant in Obamization of America but painting him as Obama supporter is taking it a bridge too far into tinfoil-hat territory. I think he tries to imply – not unreasonably, in my humble opinion – that in matters pertaining to personal freedom, there is no daylight between Bush and Obama.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 10:51 AM

I used to accept that premise, but recently I’ve found I can’t ever remember him criticizing Obama without trying to imply that Bush is “worse” despite his posture of nonpartisanship. His foreign policy stances are also basically identical to that of the left’s, and just operates from slightly different premises.

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Apart from policies, part of it is also due to the stranglehold over the debates (with a complicit media, of course) in denying Americans other views, falsely presenting an either/or choice.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:09 AM

The stranglehold has nothing to do with violating one’s own campaign budget. Also, in case you failed to realize that, the debates, while an historical tradition, is a completely private enterprise conducted by a private entity. If they saw no merit in inviting third party candidate, for any reason, nobody – not the government and not the candidate himself – is in a position to force them.

All Gary Johnson needed to do is to embrace the slogan presented in a very popularized form by Karl Denningerstop the looting and start prosecuting. That alone would put him into double-digit area. There was no more hated legislation that TARP in the history of this country, and if he failed to ride this hate into November 6, he’s even more of a failure than he seemed to be in the GOP primaries.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Well, I can see Dante has successfully hijacked this thread and made it useless to follow.

The Rogue Tomato on December 13, 2012 at 11:17 AM

So what do you think of the Patriot Act, Ed, and Bush’s creation of DHS and TSA?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:21 AM

You don’t read very well, do you? But then…

you’re an idiot.

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Can’t you at least make the pretense of staying on topic?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:08 AM

You keep asking me questions, and then when I answer them you say I’m not staying on topic or that I’m bringing up the past?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:18 AM

So the US started WW2, provoked Pearl Harbor, 911 was ‘blowback’…?

Surely there must be a way for you to lay the blame for World War One on America’s doorstep? Be inventive Dante!

sharrukin on December 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM

I didn’t say the U.S. started WW2, nor did I say the U.S. started WWI, but FDR certainly provoked the Japanese into attacking (FDR, a progressive, desired war, and even knew of the attack beforehand).

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:20 AM

I can see reasonable merit in supporting Ron Paul, but Gary Johnson? The failed Republican candidate who called for fiscal prudence but couldn’t keep his own campaign in the black? The same Gary Johnson who said that “nobody in the banking industry committed any crimes”? Oh man, if you Libertarians choose a sacrificial figurehead, at least get yourself a worthier one.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Yeah, I can get behind this. Paul has some interesting things to say, especially when it comes to money and finance, but Johnson was just a poser. Karl Denninger on Market Ticker, a real libertarian, wrote some fantastic takedowns of the Johnson campaign.

Who here is opposed to the existence of the DHS and the TSA?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:11 AM

I oppose the DHS because it’s essentially a useless, bloated government agency that exists to generate more “entitlement” voters and does nothing useful. TSA should never have been created and should be dissolved.

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Anarcho-capitalist.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:07 AM

In addition to your abject inability to tell the difference between wrong(left) and right, you also don’t have the intellectual honesty to admit to just who you are.

Any objective observer of you actions could correctly label you to be a troll – you simply can’t manage to engage people in an honest discussion of the issues.

Instead of trying to calmly discussing the issue at hand, you take actions to deliberately rile people up with off-topic irrelevancies.

Why can’t you simply discuss the issue at hand instead of trying to make about it yourself?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

All Gary Johnson needed to do is to embrace the slogan presented in a very popularized form by Karl Denninger – stop the looting and start prosecuting. That alone would put him into double-digit area. There was no more hated legislation that TARP in the history of this country, and if he failed to ride this hate into November 6, he’s even more of a failure than he seemed to be in the GOP primaries.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Nice to see a fellow Ticker reader. :-)

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Can you ever bring yourself to criticize anyone but George Bush? Obama has done far worse things to our civil liberties than Bush ever did, yet you never have an ill word to say about him, even in the face of fascistic crap like this.

steebo77 on December 13, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Lil dante can’t answer right now. He’s having trouble catching his breath…what with his face stuck between lil barry’s butt-cheeks. He’s in ecstasy.

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Perhaps, the present two-party “system” we have allowed to be imposed on us is the major problem?

Personally I hate bi-partisnaship.

Why two?

Why not a more active, less ossified, political system of parties, each vying for support, each attempting to shape the United States to more closely follow their own political beliefs, and each trying to work, out of necessity, with coalitions, and factions and make Congress more likely to be able to take care of the most important agenda items, and have little time for the imposition of the myriad laws rules and regulation we have been under for decades and decades?

More parties, smaller parties, not ever allowing two parties to dictate terms, might serve well to make our elected officials a lot more accountable to those who elected them and their constituency.

Frankly, up until this past election, seems other than abortion, there is not a bit of difference between the two major parties today. Both advocate more government, more spending, raising taxes, obfuscating the Constitution and fostering a go along to get along governance from Washington.

We get the governance we deserve.

We have it today.

We can do better.

coldwarrior on December 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM

I used to accept that premise, but recently I’ve found I can’t ever remember him criticizing Obama without trying to imply that Bush is “worse” despite his posture of nonpartisanship. His foreign policy stances are also basically identical to that of the left’s, and just operates from slightly different premises.

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:15 AM

I attribute that to the fact that people bashing Obama on this forum are already in very long supply, so he tried to lift the other end of the log. Though I would really like him to post that he dislikes Obama at least as much as Bush, just to dispel my (and everyone’s) doubts. Would you do it, Dante?

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Ok, let’s find out from all of you so-called conservatives:

Who here is opposed to the Patriot Act, those who voted for it and those who have voted to extend it?

Who here is opposed to the existence of the DHS and the TSA?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Ok, I’ll play. I am and always have been opposed to the Patriot Act in any form at any time. I thought and still think that creating DHS was a stupid move. As for the TSA, well, when you give the lowest common denominators of society vast and almost uncontestable power you’ve opened up a can of worms that will be hard to close. I am against any expansion of government powers. I’m also sure that there are many here with similar opinions. Those opinions don’t mean that I’m a Paul/Johnson supporter though.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:18 AM

No you keep on bringing up irreverent topics to the issue at hand.

Such as the next one you made:

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Nice to see a fellow Ticker reader. :-)

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Then you know how much Karl hates Gary Johnson, and he sure has a way to make his opinions contagious. I wish he’d actually run for office.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Well, I can see Dante has successfully hijacked this thread and made it useless to follow.

The Rogue Tomato on December 13, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Reefer madness.

steebo77 on December 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM

The stranglehold has nothing to do with violating one’s own campaign budget. Also, in case you failed to realize that, the debates, while an historical tradition, is a completely private enterprise conducted by a private entity. If they saw no merit in inviting third party candidate, for any reason, nobody – not the government and not the candidate himself – is in a position to force them.

All Gary Johnson needed to do is to embrace the slogan presented in a very popularized form by Karl Denninger – stop the looting and start prosecuting. That alone would put him into double-digit area. There was no more hated legislation that TARP in the history of this country, and if he failed to ride this hate into November 6, he’s even more of a failure than he seemed to be in the GOP primaries.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Oh, I do realize it, but let’s not kid ourselves into denying the power play and purpose.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:26 AM

My permanent record card says

“Rixon is a very good student and well behaved, but he could do much better if only he applied himself.”

Mostly I applied myself to the sofa in front of the boob-tube and applied Twinkies to my mouth. Now, not so much. I grew up!

Rixon on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

I attribute that to the fact that people bashing Obama on this forum are already in very long supply, so he tried to lift the other end of the log. Though I would really like him to post that he dislikes Obama at least as much as Bush, just to dispel my (and everyone’s) doubts. Would you do it, Dante?

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM

I couldn’t be more opposed to Obama than I already am.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Because your tiny little worldview can’t handle the truth, that must mean I’m lying?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 10:37 AM

No…you’re lying because that’s what liars do…and you’re a liar. Ergo: you’re lying.

And you’re an idiot.

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Oh, I do realize it, but let’s not kid ourselves into denying the power play and purpose.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:26 AM

That’s what politics in general and elections in particular are about – the power play and the purpose. Were the roles reversed Gary Johnson would do the same to his opponents. It had nothing to do with him being a third party candidate.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:29 AM

hawkdriver on December 13, 2012 at 11:03 AM

We can also point to hawkdriver and other so-called conservatives here who refuse to hold FDR and his interventionism accountable into provoking the attack on Pearl Harbor (and by extension, Wilson’s interventionism into WWI, which led to WWII).

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Hawkdriver! I’m surprised at you at being an FDR-loving fool! ;0

Don’t you understand that in Dante’s world the United States should have let Europe become a Nazi utopia and Asia exclusively under Japanese hegemony? Those millions killed in the Holacaust? Not our problem. They were EUROPEAN Jews.

But seriously, Dante’s version of history is as warped as everything else about our resident Paulbot troll. He’s right that WWII is nothing but a continuation of WWI when it comes to Europe but he/she/it ignores an important point. There was no compelling reason for the United States to declare war on Germany. FDR’s famous Infamy Speech of December 8th 1941 declared war only on Japan. The United States declared war on Germany on December 11th in response to Germany declaring war on the United States. It was a gift for FDR who really had no justification to declare war on a second front. Had Hitler left the United States alone, we could have practiced the kind of isolationism that Dante preaches.

Happy Nomad on December 13, 2012 at 11:29 AM

I couldn’t be more opposed to Obama than I already am.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Of course you couldn’t. Your love for your lord and savior gets in the way of opposing lil barry.

Ambiguous statements are made by idiots trying to hide the truth. But then…

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Mostly I applied myself to the sofa in front of the boob-tube and applied Twinkies to my mouth. Now, not so much. I grew up!

Rixon on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

And Hostess went out of business thanks to the unions who didn’t want the same trucks delivering both bread and Twinkies.

Happy Nomad on December 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I couldn’t be more opposed to Obama than I already am.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

And just how opposed to him are you?

steebo77 on December 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I couldn’t be more opposed to Obama than I already am.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

For all of you still thinking that Dante is a liberal troll, we have this statement on the record.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I couldn’t be more opposed to Obama than I already am.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Then why do you absolve him of responsibility for his assault on liberty with distractions onto irrelevant topics?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Don’t you understand that in Dante’s world the United States should have let Europe become a Nazi utopia and Asia exclusively under Japanese hegemony? Those millions killed in the Holacaust?

Happy Nomad on December 13, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Oh, the irony.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Then why do you absolve him of responsibility for his assault on liberty with distractions onto irrelevant topics?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I simply cannot have a conversation with someone who lacks skills as you do. Have a nice day.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:33 AM

For all of you still thinking that Dante is a liberal troll, we have this statement on the record.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Definitely not a liberal, he’s an anarcho-capitalist.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

For all of you still thinking that Dante is a liberal troll, we have this statement on the record.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

He never said he is opposed to Obama, just that it isn’t possible for him to be more opposed to Obama than he already is. Big difference.

steebo77 on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I’m also sure that there are many here with similar opinions. Those opinions don’t mean that I’m a Paul/Johnson supporter though.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:24 AM

*Raises hand*

a capella on December 13, 2012 at 11:35 AM

I couldn’t be more opposed to Obama than I already am.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM

does that ring a bell with anybody?

“I could no more disown him than my white grandmother”.

You’re a liar Dante.

DanMan on December 13, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Perhaps, the present two-party “system” we have allowed to be imposed on us is the major problem?

Personally I hate bi-partisnaship.

Why two?

Why not a more active, less ossified, political system of parties, each vying for support, each attempting to shape the United States to more closely follow their own political beliefs, and each trying to work, out of necessity, with coalitions, and factions and make Congress more likely to be able to take care of the most important agenda items, and have little time for the imposition of the myriad laws rules and regulation we have been under for decades and decades?

We don’t, in my opinion, have a two party system. We really have a multi-party system where the various tiny factions and parties are organized under the massive umbrella organizations of the Democrat and Republican Parties. The real problem with the Republican Party is that in its endless quest for votes, too many non-conservatives have been allowed into the governing structure of the party and the party is now coming apart at the seams due to its internal contradictions and inconsistencies brought on by years of Bushes and the election of 2012.

Essentially, the Republicans are a victim of a combination of old age and the leftist long march through the institutions. It’s why I advocate clearing away the useless Republican party and starting from scratch. The assumption that any new party would be Republican 2.0 is not necessarily correct; the Republican Party, when formed, was not just a clone of the old Whig Party.

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:38 AM

We should remember, too, that Homeland Security named the Tea Party and returning military vets “possible domestic terrorists”. Convenient, no?

This is just one more step toward a “progressive” dictatorship, headed at the moment by Barack Obama.

RebeccaH on December 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM

*Raises hand*

a capella on December 13, 2012 at 11:35 AM

I seem to remember several lively discussions in the past about the merits or lack of them for the Patriot Act. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one positive post for the TSA.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Good thing I’m a goodie two shoes huh?

Of course it’s always the ones you least expect ;)

gophergirl on December 13, 2012 at 10:41 AM

“We’ve got our eye on you, little girlie. We know that ‘still waters run deep’. Besides, Hot Air…QOTD…tunes…”
……………Have a nice day. Your friends at DHS.

;-)

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Then you know how much Karl hates Gary Johnson, and he sure has a way to make his opinions contagious. I wish he’d actually run for office.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM

You and me both. He’d be a heck of a lot better than the bums we currently have!

Doomberg on December 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Definitely not a liberal, he’s an anarcho-capitalist.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Not really in agreement with that representation. There are better ones.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Then why do you absolve him of responsibility for his assault on liberty with distractions onto irrelevant topics?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:33 AM

That’s pretty rich from someone who lacks the intellectual capacity to tell the differences between the two sides – and apparently chooses to stay ignorant of this fact.

But I have learned over the years that it’s readily apparent that a troll who uses that type of tactic has come across an intractable question – so I’ll ask it again:

Why do you absolve him of responsibility for his assault on liberty with distractions onto irrelevant topics?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I seem to remember several lively discussions in the past about the merits or lack of them for the Patriot Act. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one positive post for the TSA.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM

You must not read Jazz Shaw’s posts.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:45 AM

The good news: Saudi Arabia might now have all of our firearm registration data. What could go wrong?

The information from the “instant background checks”, which are done when you buy a gun, is supposed to be destroyed within 72 hours – according to LAW. It’ll be interesting to see if the FBI has been following the law; and, if they have, where any “gun registration” information comes from. Most states do not register firearms.

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Definitely not a liberal, he’s an anarcho-capitalist.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Thanks for posting that, Oldnuke. My 23-y/o son describes himself as an anarcho-capitalist, but he couldn’t really describe clearly about what it is. Maddeningly he does make the same repubs=dems arguments (as Dante) to me that simply make no sense on many levels. How these guys can completely be blind to the profound differences in world outlook between the left and right mystifies me.

Give them a few more years for reality to slap them upside the head a few more times… There is hope for them because they do have some things really right.

Harbingeing on December 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM

He never said he is opposed to Obama, just that it isn’t possible for him to be more opposed to Obama than he already is. Big difference.

steebo77 on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Note this is typical of trolls – using weasel language like that to pretend to imply a certain viewpoint without having said so straight out.

Let’s see if he can answer this question minus the BS:

Are you opposed to Obama [Yes or NO]?

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM

How these guys can completely be blind to the profound differences in world outlook between the left and right mystifies me.

Harbingeing on December 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM

What are the profound differences? Hell, what are any differences?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Definitely not a liberal, he’s an anarcho-capitalist.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Thanks for posting that, Oldnuke. My 23-y/o son describes himself as an anarcho-capitalist, but he couldn’t really describe clearly about what it is. Maddeningly he does make the same repubs=dems arguments (as Dante) to me that simply make no sense on many levels. How these guys can completely be blind to the profound differences in world outlook between the left and right mystifies me.

Give them a few more years for reality to slap them upside the head a few more times… There is hope for them because they do have some things really right.

Harbingeing on December 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM

It’s a contradictory phrase and thus means nothing – someone who uses such meaningless phrases is clearly lacking in the intellectual capacity to realize this – along with the glaringly obviousness fact that the two sides aren’t the same.

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 11:55 AM

He’s a radical leftist who cannot stand any restriction on his own behavior and the Democrats are too right-wing for him. The difference between him and your typical leftist is that he wants the state gone entirely.

An anarchist.

sharrukin on December 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Dante is a self-declared Anarcho/Capitalist

And an idiot.

[gotta ask him sometime how a 'capitalist' would enforce a contract in a state of 'anarchy'.]

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:56 AM

We might be more willing to consider yourself one of us if you didn’t go off half-cocked all the time firing your weapon at us instead of the enemy actually committing the actions in question!

dominigan on December 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Dante is a committed member of that enemy – despite his lame protestations. He wants to see America destroyed just as badly as his ‘lord and savior’, D’OHbama.

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 12:00 PM

The Fourth FORWARD Amendment!

Good times!

For despots.

profitsbeard on December 13, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Definitely not a liberal, he’s an anarcho-capitalist.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I just had a debate with my daughter’s libertarian club. The young ‘uns are an energetic bunch with not a whiff of history knowledge outside modern age. Precious few of them realize how similar their anarcho-capitalism is to the robber-baron feudal epoch of fractioned Europe.

Archivarix on December 13, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Great area for the liberty minded republicans to fight the tyrant govt. but where was Hotair when we were fighting the NDAA.

MoreLiberty on December 13, 2012 at 12:02 PM

We might be more willing to consider yourself one of us if you didn’t go off half-cocked all the time firing your weapon at us instead of the enemy actually committing the actions in question!

dominigan on December 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM

I am most certainly not one of you, nor could I care less if you consider me one of yours.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 12:03 PM

What are the profound differences? Hell, what are any differences?

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Casting pearls before swine…why would anyone engage you, you won’t change your mind, it’s made up. Anyone who voted or supported Gary (who?) Johnson, well let’s just say, they are a bit misguided and a bit simple in their thought.

right2bright on December 13, 2012 at 12:03 PM

The terrorists won.

Rae on December 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM

From the article:

Congress specifically sought to prevent [permit, while appearing to prevent] government agents from rifling through government files indiscriminately when it passed the Federal Privacy Act in 1974. The act prohibits government agencies from sharing data with each other for purposes that aren’t “compatible” with the reason the data were originally collected.

But [Because] the Federal Privacy Act allows agencies to exempt themselves from many requirements by placing notices in the Federal Register, the government’s daily publication of proposed rules.

If the GOP were in the least serious about this, it would be easy enough to pass a bill in the House striking permission of agencies to exempt themselves.

They are not serious. It’s just a way to yammer and upset people.

kunegetikos on December 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Dante is a self-declared Anarcho/Capitalist

And an idiot.

[gotta ask him sometime how a 'capitalist' would enforce a contract in a state of 'anarchy'.]

Solaratov on December 13, 2012 at 11:56 AM

That would be a good question – but he lacks the honesty and intellectual capacity to divulge a cogent answer to it.

Those familiar with the meaning of common words – and how they lay a foundation for rational discourse – know that the end effect of such a contradictory label is that it is meaningless.

Bottom line – he uses phrases and labels like that to mask his true ideology.

Were he truthful, he could have simply explained his ideology to the rest of us.

Chip on December 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM

I am most certainly not one of you, nor could I care less if you consider me one of yours.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 12:03 PM

I think you misunderstand (no surprise) the term “one of us”…of course you want to be “one of us” or you wouldn’t post your thoughts on a forum of “us”…nice try to pretend, but you are posting a lot of posts not to be “one of us, or one of yours”…of course you won’t see the irony in your faux indignation.

right2bright on December 13, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM

I’m sure there are as many iterations of what people think anarcho-capitalism is as there are variations of conservatism or liberalism. I was just pointing out that you weren’t a professed liberal and provided a link to give folks some idea of what that is.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Great area for the liberty minded republicans to fight the tyrant govt. but where was Hotair when we were fighting the NDAA.

MoreLiberty on December 13, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Another great point.

Dante on December 13, 2012 at 12:06 PM

We are supposed to forget the GOP role in the massive new surveillance infrastructure? lmfao.

Next up: Medical records to be integrated into the database.

But but but… a lady in Ohio got the wrong medication once, so we had to “standardize” records in one database… For the children.

kunegetikos on December 13, 2012 at 12:07 PM

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