Rand Paul: Let Dems raise taxes and own the result

posted at 8:41 am on December 12, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Are higher taxes inevitable? If they are, Senator Rand Paul wants no Republican fingerprints on them. Last night, he told Greta van Susteren on Fox News that House Republicans should pass a bill with their specific plan to cut spending and fix the tax code to address the fiscal-cliff issues, and dare the Senate to take it up. If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting “present” to allow Democrats to pass the bill. That way, the economic damage from tax hikes will be totally owned by Democrats, and Republicans will have kept their hands clean:


This reminds me of a scene from the otherwise entirely-forgettable film Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins. Wilford Brimley goes over the doomsday scenario of exposure with Fred Ward, which is the suicides of all involved, but then says, “We’re not there yet, boys.” I’m of the same mind; we can see the edge of the cliff from here, but no one’s going to get serious until Friday at the earliest. The legislative language for any deal will need to get written before the House and Senate can take a vote, which means that we’ll have to have a deal in writing by Monday or Tuesday to get the vote in before Christmas, or by Christmas to get it in before New Years Day if Congress stays in session.

If Obama insists on 4:1 tax hikes to cuts and won’t budge, though, this is probably not a bad scenario to follow. I’d amend it to make clear that the debt ceiling isn’t part of the bill, and I would also pass the AMT fix separately in the House with Republican votes. No sense in refusing credit for solving that of the fiscal cliff.


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Rand Paul is a smart man – I suspect he is probably right.

Let Obama and Reid own it.

jake-the-goose on December 12, 2012 at 8:45 AM


Good news Senator Paul……as long as there is a FED to print money there is no fiscal cliff (and thank goodness the rest of the world is in crappier economic straits). Is there any limit to what the Fed can print and what Congress can spend?

With the economy still struggling and a ‘fiscal cliff’ hovering, the Federal Reserve is expected to continue its activist policies this week at its final two-day meeting of 2012.

Specifically, members of the Federal Open Market Committee, which sets most Fed policy, are likely to announce a bond purchasing program that will replace Operation Twist, which began in the fall of 2011 and was extended earlier this year because central bankers believed the economy needed the stimulus.

The Fed will announce any new policies on Wednesday afternoon at the conclusion of its two-day meeting. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke will hold one of his semi-regular press conferences shortly after the announcement.

Operation Twist authorized the Fed to shift — or twist — its portfolio toward long-term securities by purchasing $45 billion in long-term Treasury bonds each month, while at the same time selling short-term notes. The idea was to give the economy a boost by pushing down long-term interest rates on products such as mortgages, making it easier for consumers to make big purchases.

This time around, the Fed is expected to allow Operation Twist to expire in its current form at the end of the year, primarily because the Fed reportedly has run out of short-term notes to sell. So the twisting will be over.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2012/12/11/fed-expected-to-maintain-activist-ways/#ixzz2EqSlZAZP

PappyD61 on December 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Rush said basically the same thing yesterday. Obama understands perfectly well that tax hikes on the wealthy (i.e. entrepreneurs and job creators) is going to hurt the economy and that is why he’s so desperate to have Republican fingerprints on this as well. Don’t give it to him.

Kataklysmic on December 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Quite obviously the only logical strategy for the Republicans. If they don’t believe Obama’s plan is beneficial to the nation, and certainly they shouldn’t, then there’s absolutely no reason to have any part in it.

Braveheart on December 12, 2012 at 8:49 AM

I also think passage of Simpson-Bowles in the House is an important move as well.

I agree with Rand Paul. If Obama wants to make this about “fairness” and punitive measures that don’t address anything more than scratching the Marxist itch of his base, let them do so without GOP help.

SAMinVA on December 12, 2012 at 8:49 AM

Do you really think they would get blamed?

tomas on December 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Let’s not lose focus on the real problem- spending. It’s fine to try and make the Dems own tax increases but that does nothing to deal with the real problem of cutting spending.

IMO for all the Paulbot adoration that this version of LIB is likely to induce, the fact of the man is that the nut doesn’t fall far from the tree. All Rand Paul wants to do is kick the real problems down the road. This is what Congress has been doing for years and it is time for it to stop. I’d have more respect for Paul or any politician who makes that stand here.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Quite obviously the only logical strategy for the Republicans. If they don’t believe Obama’s plan is beneficial to the nation, and certainly they shouldn’t, then there’s absolutely no reason to have any part in it.

Braveheart on December 12, 2012 at 8:49 AM

UNLESS……they also want to grow the power and scope of the Federal government.

…but that would mean, that the gop is just “the OTHER democrat party” and didn’t stand for anything anymore.

PappyD61 on December 12, 2012 at 8:51 AM

“Go ahead, make my day” -Rand Paul.

the_nile on December 12, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Go with it.Let them own it like they do Obamacare.

docflash on December 12, 2012 at 8:52 AM

O/T:

VERY FUNNY photo gallery in today’s new site splash screen (three humans and one ‘dog’, AP).

BUT, someone left out the “emailed” or “email” declaration as to what the “signup” is about…asking people to “signup to get latest news, stories” but don’t mention how it’s gonna’ be ‘gotten.’

Funny overall splash screen.

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 8:52 AM

Reality check: Whatever negative happens, it will never ever be the Democrat’s fault.

Mr. Arrogant on December 12, 2012 at 8:52 AM

House should just extend all the tax rates and send to senate.

18 democrat senators want to delay the medical device tax in Obamacare (which they voted for!) because they know it will hurt jobs.

Tax hikes = Less Jobs

Let Obama and democrats own it.

monalisa on December 12, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Do you really think they would get blamed?

tomas on December 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Does it matter? Republicans still shouldn’t be holding hands with the Democrats in raising taxes.

sharrukin on December 12, 2012 at 8:54 AM

Nope, we actually have an opportunity here. Lets go over the cliff and make people pay federal income tax again. End the Bush tax cuts for everybody!

Valkyriepundit on December 12, 2012 at 8:54 AM

The Dems and their union & MSM enablers will still blame the Rethuglicans’ “obstructionism” for any ill effect the economy suffers from Obummer’s blundering. It’s a lose-lose scenario.

KS Rex on December 12, 2012 at 8:55 AM

When the asinine paulistas stayed home because they didn’t like Romney, and therefore elected obama, they will never, never, recieve a vote or praise from me. This is a typical paulista philosophy. Let the libruls do their worst, then the people will see how bad they really are and will throw the libruls out. How’d that work out last time, polly?

Old Country Boy on December 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM

This (“letting it burn”) is why the GOP should “cave” to Obama on hiking taxes.

Progressives love saying the United States is a “democracy”. They are wrong (the US is a constitutional republic), but in this case we should defer to “democracy” and give a majority of the electorate what they voted for. Give it to them good and hard.

Let. It. Burn.

MidniteRambler on December 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM

Rush said basically the same thing yesterday. Obama understands perfectly well that tax hikes on the wealthy (i.e. entrepreneurs and job creators) is going to hurt the economy and that is why he’s so desperate to have Republican fingerprints on this as well. Don’t give it to him.

Kataklysmic on December 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Or the contingency plan for Obama is to go over the cliff and then retroactively pass a middle class tax rate extension. That way any economic downturn over the next 4 years(and that’s all but guaranteed) will be blamed on the GOP.

Doughboy on December 12, 2012 at 8:57 AM

About Rand Paul statement, though:

He sounds like he’s living in a Faerey-Tale.

Does anyone really expect that, regardless of outcome, that the ObamaLeft/Democrats will be held responsible for ANYthing?

Rand sounds like Pollyanna with this rather batty statement of his, AS IF it’d ever become ‘real’.

We, the Right, the GOP, needs sound reasons soundly declared but asserting there’s some dues that’ll come back to egg the face of the Dems is irrational, because it won’t, it never does, they’ll continue to blame the GOP regardless of what happens. So the GOP should stick to being rational and trust that enough voters recognize it as such (rational goals, rationally stated, remain consistent, remain committed to them).

Rand Paul sounds like he’s actually rooting for tax hikes in a back-asswards weird way.

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 8:57 AM

Do you really think they would get blamed?

tomas on December 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM

In some circles but not with the moochers, takers, and parasites that support Obama nor in the MSM. Any tax increase would be couched in terms of anecdotal stories of families eating dog food or a MI grandma not being able to heat her home because of taxes. Bottom line, so long as the welfare check, Medicare payment, free birth control, or Obamaphone service is not interrupted- the 50% of part of America that is greedy stupid and lazy will only care about what it means to them personally.

BTW, Adam Carolla had a good point. All of this isn’t really taxing the rich. The rich are people like John Kerry who got rich by marrying the widow of a condiment fortune or anything with Kennedy as part of a last name. They’ve inherited their wealth.

What the rat-eared wonder and his filthy party are pushing is punishing the successful. Sticking it to businesses and individuals who worked their asses off to be successful only to have these commies come in and loot their success so that sluts don’t have to pay for birth control or welfare queens their cell phones.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM

UNLESS……they also want to grow the power and scope of the Federal government.

…but that would mean, that the gop is just “the OTHER democrat party” and didn’t stand for anything anymore.

PappyD61 on December 12, 2012 at 8:51 AM

compassionate conservatism, the other big government party.

the_nile on December 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Present.

rhombus on December 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Don’t give up deductions and don’t accept any rate raises. Make the democrats own it.

tom daschle concerned on December 12, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Who’s going to blame them? The left wing union goons can kick the hell out of people on national TV and the mainstream media gives them a pass. Neither did the propaganda media note that Obama had incited them to this violence in a speech the day before. Maybe the union thugs have taken the most effective approach and the right should follow their lead . . . perhaps there’s no peaceful resolution to this problem.

rplat on December 12, 2012 at 9:01 AM

I like it. The media wouldn’t blame the Dems but it would be hard to blame the Republicans and make it stick if the Dems get everything they wanted and the economy still goes tits up.

crazywater on December 12, 2012 at 9:01 AM

Like it Ed

cmsinaz on December 12, 2012 at 9:02 AM

When the asinine paulistas stayed home because they didn’t like Romney, and therefore elected obama, they will never, never, recieve a vote or praise from me. This is a typical paulista philosophy. Let the libruls do their worst, then the people will see how bad they really are and will throw the libruls out. How’d that work out last time, polly?

Old Country Boy on December 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM

I agree.

Rand Paul’s idea here is nuts, at least as to what he projects the outcome/result will be.

WHATEVER the outcome of this tax argument, the Left (includes Obama) will blame the GOP for whatever negative occurs.

It’s to be expected. Down turn economically? Obama’ll blame the GOP. Wealthy far less wealthy and many ruined? Obama’ll blame the GOP. Increasing loss of jobs? Obama’ll blame the GOP…

…so why indulge him and the rest of the Left? We need all remember that Obama and the Dems ALSO have their eyes on 2016, so they NEED a downturn and terrible economic times to blame the GOP and play the pity-savior role for 2016 (“we’re Democrats and we’re here to save you from the ongoing mess the nasty, mean GOP has caused…yaddayaddayadda…”).

Blaming the GOP is just integral to who and what OBama and the DNC are. It’s not ever going to be, somehow, “hedged” as Rand Paul is suggesting, if Obama gets his tax hikes. He’ll still blame the GOP for any and all of his own failings and those damages he causes.

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 9:03 AM

It’s been said before, but perhaps the best approach is for the House to pass two separate bills:

1. Extend middle class tax cuts.
2. Extend upper income tax cuts.

The first bill would prevent Reid and Obama from claiming that Republicans are against middle class tax cuts.

Obama/Senate will block the second, so they can own it.

Reject any of the stimulus Obama wants.

Don’t fix the medical device tax, the Democrats passed Obamacare, let them own it.

GCM on December 12, 2012 at 9:03 AM

I can hear tingles now and probably the rest of the lsm
Those squishy gop would only vote present ….childish and racist

cmsinaz on December 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Clueless. Absolutely effing clueless.

The Pravda media control the reality, and they will never ever- repeat- never ever be critical of the commie in Chief and his Corruptocrat party. If anyone actually believes that there is any integrity or decency left in the NYC-DC corridor, you are a fool. Does anyone really think this Occupier of the WH is concerned about debt or deficit? And has a problem transforming this country through bankruptcy?
Wise up.

What did you not learn about F&F or Benghazi ?

The white Republicans will be blamed for everything – Regardless of what they do or propose.
Start with that reality, and go from there.

Too Black to fail will be the rule until Clinton 45 takes over.

It’s Thelma and Louise time.

FlaMurph on December 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM

the Dems will never get blamed, it just won’t happen

now let’s hurry up and pass Amnesty, right Ed?

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Adam Carolla had a good point. All of this isn’t really taxing the rich. The rich are people like John Kerry who got rich by marrying the widow of a condiment fortune or anything with Kennedy as part of a last name. They’ve inherited their wealth.

What the rat-eared wonder and his filthy party are pushing is punishing the successful. Sticking it to businesses and individuals who worked their asses off to be successful only to have these commies come in and loot their success so that sluts don’t have to pay for birth control or welfare queens their cell phones.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM

DITTO and

DITTO.

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Steny Hoyer: The Debt Limit ‘Is Not Real’
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/steny-hoyer-debt-limit-not-real

“It is not real,” he said. “It is a phony political debate.”

*Insert Twilight zone music*

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 9:05 AM

Anyone who expects courage from John Boehner is delusional. The GOP isn’t going to stand firm on anything. Boehner and company will cut a deal.

Given how gutless the majority of them are, how could you expect anything better than what Rand Paul is suggesting?

sharrukin on December 12, 2012 at 9:06 AM

To some extent he’s right, although I have a feeling the Republicans are better off allowing the fiscal cliff to take place because they will have more say on what taxes are, rather than signing off on another “deal”.

All the Republicans really have to do is allow the fiscal cliff to happen and tell the President and Reid they are willing to deal with everything through the budget process and then let the press and the Democrats explain why they don’t want to do a budget.

bflat879 on December 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I completely agree that the Republicans are just Democrats without courage, however, they need to just vote present.
Period.
The smartest thing Rush said yesterday (or that I heard) was that Obama inherits a bigger mess in 2012 than any other president. Let him own this. It is all him, and let him have it.

ORconservative on December 12, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Obama understands perfectly well that tax hikes on the wealthy (i.e. entrepreneurs and job creators) is going to hurt the economy and that is why he’s so desperate to have Republican fingerprints on this as well. Don’t give it to him.

Kataklysmic on December 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM

I think it’s a trap.

I agree the GOP should NOT “give it to him” as to agreeing to the tax hikes. But Obama will blame the GOP regardless of the outcome, it’s just integral to his and the DNC’s political plans.

They are professional “trip and fall artists.” They fake a trip, they fall and then claim someone else “made them do it” and then threaten all sorts of blames to try and leverage their own gain.

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Get that GOP plan to the table first, have it shot down, then walk away. At least give the small percentage of non pot-smoking voters the opportunity to parse the data and see that the GOP made an effort.

The system is self-correcting as we speak, I’m just waiting it out.

Bishop on December 12, 2012 at 9:11 AM

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM

Remind me never to go to the shooting range with you. I’ve never seen someone so eager to go off half-cocked!

Let’s not lose focus on the real problem- spending. It’s fine to try and make the Dems own tax increases but that does nothing to deal with the real problem of cutting spending.

You might want to re-read the first paragraph. I’ll highlight the important part since you read right over it the first time…

Are higher taxes inevitable? If they are, Senator Rand Paul wants no Republican fingerprints on them. Last night, he told Greta van Susteren on Fox News that House Republicans should pass a bill with their specific plan to cut spending and fix the tax code to address the fiscal-cliff issues, and dare the Senate to take it up. If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting “present” to allow Democrats to pass the bill. That way, the economic damage from tax hikes will be totally owned by Democrats, and Republicans will have kept their hands clean:

…which is pretty much what you suggested. The point he was making is that if they don’t want to do that, then make them own it. (I would try the the Repub plan 1st, Bowles-Simpson plan 2nd, then make them own it!)

dominigan on December 12, 2012 at 9:12 AM

Or the contingency plan for Obama is to go over the cliff and then retroactively pass a middle class tax rate extension. That way any economic downturn over the next 4 years(and that’s all but guaranteed) will be blamed on the GOP.

Doughboy on December 12, 2012 at 8:57 AM

Of course. But the raising of taxes on the top 2% would have no Republican votes whereas the reextension of Bush rates for the bottom 98% would have all the Republican votes. I don’t think anyone is indulging in the fantasy that the Republicans won’t be blamed but at least conservatives can take comfort in the fact that we deserve no blame.

Kataklysmic on December 12, 2012 at 9:13 AM

BTW, Adam Carolla had a good point. All of this isn’t really taxing the rich. The rich are people like John Kerry who got rich by marrying the widow of a condiment fortune or anything with Kennedy as part of a last name. They’ve inherited their wealth.

What the rat-eared wonder and his filthy party are pushing is punishing the successful. Sticking it to businesses and individuals who worked their asses off to be successful only to have these commies come in and loot their success so that sluts don’t have to pay for birth control or welfare queens their cell phones.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM

BTW, it’s purely an arbitrary cutoff point – are we to believe that someone in the top 1% 2% hasn’t paid their arbitrary “Fair share” and that someone in the top 3% or 5.972% is entirely virtuous because they have?

The Democratic Socialist Worker’s party just picked that value out of their as…. Assumptions about class warfare and is running with it.

But who’s to say that once they’ve established a ‘ream the rich’ meme that they won’t make that the top 10 or 20 percent?

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Rand Paul’s idea here is nuts, at least as to what he projects the outcome/result will be.

WHATEVER the outcome of this tax argument, the Left (includes Obama) will blame the GOP for whatever negative occurs.

It’s to be expected. Down turn economically? Obama’ll blame the GOP. Wealthy far less wealthy and many ruined? Obama’ll blame the GOP. Increasing loss of jobs? Obama’ll blame the GOP…

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 9:03 AM

Of course the left will blame the GOP. The point is that the Republicans need to make sure the Dems are solely responsible for any tax hikes that pass. Take Porkulus and Obamacare for example. Except for 2 or 3 Republicans, every vote for those bills came from Democrats. And as a result, the Dems had a very hard time defending their record in 2010 and were slaughtered at the polls as a result. The only reason Obama was able to escape defeat in November was because he still had the bogeymen of Bush and “the rich” with their precious tax cuts to use against the GOP. Once taxes go up for upper income earners and he’s reinaugurated, both of those cards will no longer be in the deck.

In a few months when taxes have been raised, Obamacare begins to go into effect, and Obama is well into his second term, the economy will at best be stagnating like it has been during this so-called recovery. While we all know that Obama and the Dems will blame the GOP, they won’t be very successful in doing so because there won’t be anything specific they can pin on Republicans(aside from blocking more stimulus which most Americans don’t want anyway).

Doughboy on December 12, 2012 at 9:14 AM

The best thing to do is cut a deal on taxes and take that off the table so Barry doesn’t have the rich people demagoguery to fall back on. And then use the debt ceiling to demand spending reforms.

Illinidiva on December 12, 2012 at 9:15 AM

At least give the small percentage of non pot-smoking voters the opportunity to parse the data and see that the GOP made an effort.

Bishop on December 12, 2012 at 9:11 AM

exactly. Non pot smokers are a small percentage. Legalize it and win henceforth.

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:15 AM

when did it become the 98%, and did the Occupiers have to re do all those signs? bummer!

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Letting the ship you are sailing in sink to show the captain did not know what he was doing does not have a great appeal to me.

Pass the AMT and DOC fee fix, the 98% Bush tax cut extention and enough debt ceiling increase until March 31 when the continuing resolution on funding runs out and pass your plan to curb the deficit and debt before that deadline and put a further debt ceiling extension into that bill. They will only get appropriations and debt issuance authority if they pass a plan in the Senate go to conference and get Obama’s signature on whatever compromise comes out of that process. If the DEMs won’t play go to the public as best you can and then wait the D’s out until the 2014 election if need be.

KW64 on December 12, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Get that GOP plan to the table first, have it shot down, then walk away. At least give the small percentage of non pot-smoking voters the opportunity to parse the data and see that the GOP made an effort.

The system is self-correcting as we speak, I’m just waiting it out.

Bishop on December 12, 2012 at 9:11 AM

Yup, a fire needs the fuel it consumes and will die out when that fuel runs out.

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 9:18 AM

The best thing to do is cut a deal on taxes and take that off the table so Barry doesn’t have the rich people demagoguery to fall back on.

Why would that stop him?

Banksters, corporate villains with evil looking thin mustaches, the Koch brothers!

And then use the debt ceiling to demand spending reforms.

Illinidiva on December 12, 2012 at 9:15 AM

And now you want to crush the poor by taking away their safety net while Wall Street lives it up in luxury.

Demagoguery doesn’t need reality to work.

sharrukin on December 12, 2012 at 9:19 AM

when did it become the 98%, and did the Occupiers have to re do all those signs? bummer!

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Somewhere along the way – the Democratic Socialist Worker’s party has also rolled out a 200K figure in some cases.

You can bet dollars to cheesecake that the barack will roll down hill soon to 150K, then 100K then 5..

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Rand has it right. We are going to be blamed no matter what we do. And let’s face it folks the Demoncrats are going to get what they want sooner or later, betting on sooner.

Apparently these facts are lost on old country bumpkins who are too stupid to understand that you can’t beat a black liberal with a white semi-liberal, and thinks libertarians are to blame more than millions of welfare voters.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:26 AM

fluke it.

let’s all buy Volts and join Peta

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:29 AM

Ridiculous.

Is this why we elected Republicans? So they can watch Democrats pass things and avoid political blame?

Really?

TallDave on December 12, 2012 at 9:35 AM

and thinks libertarians are to blame more than millions of welfare voters.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:26 AM

They’d mandate Sunday services if they could.

small government party my perfect @ss

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM

I agree, mwbri made a strong point in the headlines, the middle class is going to get slammed by Obamacare, to the point the Dems are starting to run scared, the public will soon be on to them.

Cindy Munford on December 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM

BTW, it’s purely an arbitrary cutoff point – are we to believe that someone in the top 1% 2% hasn’t paid their arbitrary “Fair share” and that someone in the top 3% or 5.972% is entirely virtuous because they have?

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 9:14 AM

With this administration, nothing is arbitrary or unintentional. They’ve pegged it at the top one or two percent after focus grouping what the parasite class thinks of as rich and who isn’t paying their “fair share” (I hate that term). But you are right, once they run through the money of the top two percent they’ll simply redefine rich and go out after somebody else’s money.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Do it. Do it now.

The Rogue Tomato on December 12, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Is this why we elected Republicans? So they can watch Democrats pass things and avoid political blame?

Really?

TallDave on December 12, 2012 at 9:35 AM

1. Most Republicans promise they’ll fight Dems and then betray you outright. Rand is thus above most Rs for outright saying “Let them own this disaster”.

2. The Demoncrats are going to get what they want. 90% of the GOP is not suddenly going to grow a spine and a set of ironclad convictions in the near future after decades of doublespeak and cowardice.

3. We are going to get blamed no matter what. Or have you not noticed YET that is the liberal MO for everything?

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:39 AM

They’d mandate Sunday services if they could.

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Another “Christian Sharia” troll. Go to hell, spoiled child. Or better yet go to Iran and live under Muslim theocracy.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:40 AM

I agree 100% with him.

ButterflyDragon on December 12, 2012 at 9:41 AM

The point he was making is that if they don’t want to do that, then make them own it. (I would try the the Repub plan 1st, Bowles-Simpson plan 2nd, then make them own it!)

dominigan on December 12, 2012 at 9:12 AM

Sorry I had full comprehension but don’t read it the same way you do. From what I’ve seen the GOP plan doesn’t do enough to ensure that the promised cuts to spending actually come about. How many times does the GOP have to take on the role of Charlie Brown to the Dem’s Lucy to understand that they are never going to get to kick that football. The GOP should have zero trust of any promises to working out cuts down the line in return for the immediate looting of personal wealth of Americans now.

I favor a version of Simpson-Bowles with a BRAC-like process where an independent commission comes up with a list of cuts and Congress has to approve or reject the list in its entirety. And this list should be line-by-line across the federal budget with real cutting of programs and personnel- not arbitrary percentages of how much less each agency and department is to get. The latter approach is not only cowardly it just hides the kinds of stuff that should be taken out of federal spending.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 9:43 AM

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:40 AM

oops! thought you had a sense of humor

If you remember, it came down to the “Christian Sharia” candidate versus the “white semi-liberal”

If those are the two choices of the small gov party, there is no small gov party

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Ed, this is silly.

Dems will not own the result because they are not advocating for the lower rates to be raised (even if that’s what they secretly want).

GOP will get blamed if lower rates go up, period. MSM will ensure that.

Narrative if we go over the cliff: “GOP let your taxes go up because they insisted on tax cuts for the rich”

It’s grossly unfair, but we will own it.

GOP needs to extend the highest rate and all the other rates as two separate bills. Don’t give Obama any excuse for rejecting it.

commodore on December 12, 2012 at 9:49 AM

This is coming to a full burn soon. I happen to agree with Rand at this point. Let them own it all

Noelie on December 12, 2012 at 9:49 AM

the middle class is going to get slammed by Obamacare, to the point the Dems are starting to run scared, the public will soon be on to them.

Cindy Munford on December 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM

IMO, the GOP is in a stronger position than the MSM is trying to paint. Yes, there is some concern that the GOP will be blamed if we go over the fiscal cliff. That blame is headed their way no matter what happens. At the same time the Dems are scared about the long-term impact after a few months of significantly smaller paychecks due to the end of Bush-era tax cuts, Obama’s social security cuts expire, and the first of many increases in taxes for Obamacare kick in. Not to mention the way sequestration is going to gut the defense budget.

The GOP should let it all happen and refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Let’s see how the super smart rat-eared wonder and his filthy party deals with that!

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 9:50 AM

They’d mandate Sunday services if they could.

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM

As much as I would personally love this especially for the soul-less like yourself, I realize that wiser minds made it this doesn’t happen. You, in your paranoia of all things Christian are making up a boogey man that doesn’t exist.

Go to the corner and stick pins in your little straw-man.

Noelie on December 12, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Honest no-sarc question for the Rand haters:

Do you have a realistic plan for stopping the Demoncrat tax raises? And ‘realistic’ does not mean ‘pray the majority of the GOP suddenly grows a spine and a brain’.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Let the tax rates on the top 2% expire, but attach it to a bill banning Kenyans from playing golf.

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:53 AM

If attempting an honorable and sensible compromise proves useless, then, yes, walk away; but don’t have any illusions that just because the result has Democratic fingerprints and screws the economy (whether absolutely or relatively), voters themselves will inevitably see reason in four or eight or twelve years. Just do it because it’s right.

Don’t forget either that Paul himself represents a red state and has little to lose politically from this. So his is not really a profile in courage.

Seth Halpern on December 12, 2012 at 9:53 AM

It’s easy for Rand Paul to say that as he sits in the minority in the Senate and doesn’t have to actually do anything. It gets a little more complicated over on the House side.

dczombie on December 12, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Noelie on December 12, 2012 at 9:52 AM

I’m a Christian

I just know how to separate politics and religion

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 9:56 AM

Don’t forget either that Paul himself represents a red state and has little to lose politically from this. So his is not really a profile in courage.

Seth Halpern on December 12, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Bull. Look at all the flak he’s taking from Republicans for merely saying that we should TRY to let the Demoncrats own their mess.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:57 AM

I agree with Sen. Paul. We’re going to get the pork sword no matter what. Let the bastard Democrats own it.

mr.blacksheep on December 12, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Pork Swords Я Us

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Sure. Let’s play with the people’s jobs and livelyhoods. It’s just a game to congress.

TerryW on December 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Rand Paul sounds like he’s actually rooting for tax hikes in a back-asswards weird way.

Lourdes on December 12, 2012 at 8:57 AM

As am I.

BRING

IT

ON.

Federal spending has increased more than One Trillion Dollars since 2007, a year we had two hot wars going on. Normally, I am against tax hikes of any kind, but that is based on the principle that if they take more they spend more.

In this case, Obama delivered the programs that increased spending, and got re-elected for it. And the tax increases that will automatically kick in, the “fiscal cliff”, will only amount to half of the new spending and the rest is new debt.

I say, remitting 50 cents in new taxes for every new dollar spent is a bargain. Of course, it’s also a fantasy, in that we still go in the hole one dollar for every one dollar in tax increase, since we’re paying for only half of the new spending.

I’m tired of trying to convince people of how expensive, wasteful and opressive government is, while all along we never have to pay for it because there’s seemingly no limit to the amount of money we can borrow off the Fed’s printing press. Time for an egimafication on the REAL cost of government.

shuzilla on December 12, 2012 at 10:10 AM

BTW, it’s purely an arbitrary cutoff point – are we to believe that someone in the top 1% 2% hasn’t paid their arbitrary “Fair share” and that someone in the top 3% or 5.972% is entirely virtuous because they have?

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 9:14 AM

With this administration, nothing is arbitrary or unintentional. They’ve pegged it at the top one or two percent after focus grouping what the parasite class thinks of as rich and who isn’t paying their “fair share” (I hate that term). But you are right, once they run through the money of the top two percent they’ll simply redefine rich and go out after somebody else’s money.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 9:37 AM

There should be no doubt that Democratic Socialist Worker’s party has their little binders full of parasite polling data that the bottom 98% and some of the self-loathing Top 2% are hated and need to be sheered like sheep.

There should also be no doubt that once the Marxist moochers need more fuel, they look to everyone else they deem to be “Rich”.

At some point they’ll just the top __ % BS once they’ve established the morality that you can live off theft from others as long as you duly voted for it.

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 10:11 AM

why isn’t Beohner on TV constantly reminding people that 8 days of Gubmint Cheese and no cuts isn’t a balanced approach?

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM

@MelonCollie: Right, I’m sure he lives in fear that some RINO will primary him or that Jeb Bush will get extra nasty in the next GOP presidential debate.

Seth Halpern on December 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM

I’m of the vote present and walk away persuasion but I could go for Sen. Paul’s plan. Let’s face it, Reid won’t do a thing with a bill that just slashes spending, but pass it and then let the Dems run their economy crusher and vote present. Fair enough for me.

batter on December 12, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 9:50 AM

I love the idea of no increase to the debt ceiling, but do we have Republican with the guts to do that? I don’t think we do.

Cindy Munford on December 12, 2012 at 10:14 AM

@MelonCollie: Right, I’m sure he lives in fear that some RINO will primary him or that Jeb Bush will get extra nasty in the next GOP presidential debate.

Seth Halpern on December 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Stuff a sock in it, WINO. He’s living under the shadow of someone the NeoCons hate more than Osama, and will probably do so until the day he dies.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 10:15 AM

3. We are going to get blamed no matter what. Or have you not noticed YET that is the liberal MO for everything?

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:39 AM

Hey, lets be blunt about it – the Democratic Socialist Worker’s party is a bunch of LYING bastages that wholly depend on a Barack Spewing Media to cover their tracks.

That should be a source of freedom for the GOP – if you’re to be blamed, it’s better to be blamed for standing up to the statists.

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM

MelonCollie woke up on the wrong side of the bed for two weeks running

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM

If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting “present” to allow Democrats to pass the bill. That way, the economic damage from tax hikes will be totally owned by Democrats, and Republicans will have kept their hands clean:

This is absolute idiocy! If Republicans have the power to stop Democrats from raising taxes, and then allow them to raise taxes by voting present, the tax increases will, in effect, be totally owned by the Republicans!

This sounds like a career politician who would really like to raise taxes so he has more money to control, while claiming he is not responsible for raising taxes.

Republicans need to keep Democrats from further destruction of our nation and economy as much as possible. Voting “Present” is not an option. Those who vote present will be remembered in 2014.

Ordinary American on December 12, 2012 at 10:20 AM

MelonCollie woke up on the wrong side of the bed for two weeks running

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Better than waking up on the wrong side of reality, bucko.

That should be a source of freedom for the GOP – if you’re to be blamed, it’s better to be blamed for standing up to the statists.

Galt2009 on December 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Exactly! Thank you! Someone gets it!

Better to be defeated while standing tall for truth than to try and escape the inevitable by being a mealy-mouthed member of the Democrat Get-Along Gang.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I think he’s right.

Things will get worse – much worse – before they get better. But in the end if The One gets what he wants and everything goes to hell in a handbasket, as predicted, then maybe, just maybe, people will come to their senses.

Look at the current feeding frenzy between some state and local government Democratic leaders and the unions when it comes to pension plans, benefits, etc. That is only a drop in the bucket of what will happen if the current plans move forward.

EdmundBurke247 on December 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM

3. We are going to get blamed no matter what. Or have you not noticed YET that is the liberal MO for everything?

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 9:39 AM

I think you overestimate the MSM’s stranglehold on information. You are, of course, correct. But take some solice in the thought that Romney got less votes than McCain, and McCain was by most Conservative’s estimate a RINO who faced poor voter turnout due to lack of conviction. Obama is president due to a lack of conviction in Republican candidates, NOT because of a lack of Conservative voters. WE are out there, and WE get it. No amount of MSM blame-gaming will keep the right Conservative from getting elected.

shuzilla on December 12, 2012 at 10:25 AM

I’m with Sen Paul and I emailed my House Rep last week advocating the same thing (for all the good that will do). But what I want to know, as Mark Levin talked about yesterday on his radio show, is why are these talks happening in private, only between Obutthead and Boehner? What happened to our representation? Why isn’t there public debate with the entire US House of Representatives involved? What happened to no taxation without representation? I’m not being represented. Why is this being done behind closed doors–just like the ObamaScare/Roberts Tax–like the rest of aren’t smart enough to be informed of what’s going on? Are we children? NO! But we’re being treated like children. It’s OUR money that they’re debating over and I can’t think of two less qualified IDIOTS to be divvying up OUR money than those two, and you can add the third and bigger IDIOT Harry Reidiculous to that list. WHERE IS THE PUBLIC OUTCRY OVER THIS? I want my government back where it belongs–within my power.

stukinIL4now on December 12, 2012 at 10:25 AM

If Republicans have the power to stop Democrats from raising taxes

Ordinary American on December 12, 2012 at 10:20 AM

They have the power. They have had that power since 2010 and have never had the courage to use it.

Why do you imagine they will suddenly find that courage? Should we sent them some liquid courage and hope they get drunk enough to do the right thing?

Barring that, what else can be done if not what Rand Paul has suggested?

sharrukin on December 12, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Adam Carolla had a good point. All of this isn’t really taxing the rich. The rich are people like John Kerry who got rich by marrying the widow of a condiment fortune or anything with Kennedy as part of a last name. They’ve inherited their wealth.

What the rat-eared wonder and his filthy party are pushing is punishing the successful. Sticking it to businesses and individuals who worked their asses off to be successful only to have these commies come in and loot their success so that sluts don’t have to pay for birth control or welfare queens their cell phones.

Happy Nomad on December 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM

THIS is the reality.
Adam Carola is always effing SPOT ON when it comes to dissecting the liberal power propaganda.
Since elections are now just popularity contests- Republicans would be smart to draft Carola for office. (But not against Hillary)

FlaMurph on December 12, 2012 at 10:27 AM

This is absolute idiocy! If Republicans have the power to stop Democrats from raising taxes, and then allow them to raise taxes by voting present, the tax increases will, in effect, be totally owned by the Republicans!

Ordinary American on December 12, 2012 at 10:20 AM

No, not if they do it right. They have to attach a statement to their votes. “The GOP does not stand for these principles. However, the voters have spoken and chosen the way of the Obama administration. While we cannot go against our principles and vote in favor of the tax increases, we will submit to the will of the voters by not voting against it, and simply vote present.”

Bam. You voted for Obama. Now eat it.

The Rogue Tomato on December 12, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Why do you imagine they will suddenly find that courage? Should we sent them some liquid courage and hope they get drunk enough to do the right thing?

sharrukin on December 12, 2012 at 10:25 AM

That’s funny in a painful way.

“Ah vote *HIC* against opposing tax decreases *HIC* ah mean for not raising taxis *HIC* aww…uhhh…ah votes NO. *HIC* “

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Better than waking up on the wrong side of reality, bucko.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 10:21 AM

what? you get angrier and make less sense as you go. Decaf maybe?

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM

what? you get angrier and make less sense as you go. Decaf maybe?

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Get a life.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM

shot of heroin? Really calms those nerves

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM

shot of heroin? Really calms those nerves

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Get. A. Life.

MelonCollie on December 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM

“Let them own it” is wrong thinking. We just witnessed four years of it not working in the 2012 election.But the bigger problem is Republicans better be prepared to go along with every agenda item Obama puts on the table in the next four years. So in two years, when Obama puts up a ridiculous “investing” package of cronyism, debt and payoffs on the table and calls it “Economic Revitalization” bill. The Republicans have to go along with it again to say “OK…but your gonna own it”. Because if Republicans don’t go along with the latest Obama spending, Obama will blame Republicans again,(two years from now,) for standing in the way of a “Recovering Bill” and hurting the economy.

And what will be our defense in two years? “But we gave Obama the tax hike on the 2% two years ago and we’re trying to show how bad that was”. It leads us nowhere.

Norbitz on December 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM

I loved Remo Williams, it wasn’t “forgettable”!

blakesq on December 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM

why isn’t Beohner on TV constantly reminding people that 8 days of Gubmint Cheese and no cuts isn’t a balanced approach?

Slade73 on December 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM

.
You might catch him on FOX…but you can’t be so naive as to think the SoCalledUnbiasedMedia wants honest dialogue? can you? The media DOES NOT CARE what Boehner OR Republicans think.

The sophistication and effectiveness of the American media propaganda machine rivals any communist or dictatorial regime that ever was.

Ich bin ein comrades.

FlaMurph on December 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM

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