The growing GOP tax-cave chorus?

posted at 9:31 am on December 10, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

Last week, Sen. Rand Paul elucidated a possible fiscal-cliff route to which an increasing number of Republicans seem to be edging: Obama based much of his campaign on hiking taxes on families making more than 250k/year, and America went ahead and reelected him. So, go ahead and let the Democrats raise taxes, and then it will be clear which party will be to blame for whatever economic backlash comes afterward.

Over the weekend, a couple more GOPers endorsed a form of that potential scenario, admitting that Republicans have a pretty weak hand right now and that letting taxes increase would force Democrats to take full ownership of their policies. Sen. Tom Coburn said he would agree to capitulate on raising taxes if significant spending cuts were a part of the deal, and Sen. Bob Corker proffered that letting taxes go up would then bring the major focus back to entitlement reform, via the WFB:

A lot of people are putting forth a theory and I actually think it has merit where you go ahead and give the president the two percent increase, that he is talking about, the rate increase on the top two percent and all of a sudden the shift goes back to entitlements, and all of a sudden once you give him the rate on the top two percent, it is actually much lesser tax increase than what he has been talking about. The focus then shifts to entitlements and maybe that puts us in a place where we actually can do something that really saves this nation, so, there is a growing body, I actually am beginning to believe that is the best route for us to take, to, again, shift the focus where it needs to be which is on entitlements…

The obvious questions still being, will low-information voters necessarily blame Democrats for the negative economic effects of tax increases? With the president’s rather amazing capacity for spinning/campaigning, it looks like Republicans may be damned-if-they-do, damned-if-they-don’t unless they seriously step it up on their hitherto lackluster PR-game. And another: Once taxes go up to “Clinton-era levels” (although, combined with the new taxes from ObamaCare, effective taxes will actually be higher), where’s the assurance that the Democrats will then honest-to-goodness, cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die be on board for mega-entitlement reform? The WSJ posits that there doesn’t seem to be any, and the GOP has more leverage right now than they think they do:

But what is the evidence in the last four years, or even since the election, that Mr. Obama won’t pocket that victory and then refuse to offer any but token changes on entitlements? Mr. Corker has proposed several specific and laudable entitlement changes, but note how Mr. Obama has declined to support a single one of them in public. After he has GOP fingerprints on tax rate increases, Mr. Obama is more likely to make Republicans trade onerous defense cuts for entitlement changes that are far less consequential than Mr. Corker has proposed. …

For all of his bluster about blaming Republicans, Mr. Obama also knows a budget failure would do enormous harm to his chances of second-term success. It would guarantee at least two more years of trench budget warfare and poison the chances of immigration or other reform. Another recession would be on his watch, not on George W. Bush’s.

The point is that Republicans have more leverage than they imagine, and they ought to act like it. A good start would be for the House to pass a bill this week extending all the tax rates for six months and fixing the defense spending cuts coming in January. Then ask Senate Democrats to pass their own bill, and they can negotiate with the President under regular Congressional order.


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I can’t help but noticing that the most vocal voices in favor of caving are Senators. I’m more afraid of the spineless orange person who is speaker of the House. By his covert “deal-making” with the rat-eared wonder we really don’t know what to expect other than more punishment to those who vocally oppose the GOP House leadership.

These are not happy times.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 9:36 AM

If you give the president his tax increases as part of a package that forces either spending cuts or entitlement reform, no, he will not get the blame. Because when things fail to improve, or get worse, the Democrats and the media will blame the evil Republicans who didn’t let them do the necessary stimulus spending that would have made the economy roar back, while simultaneously trying to make grandma eat dog food. And the typical low information voter will buy it.

If you want to try this strategy, and have any hope of it succeeding, the only way is to give Obama what he wants without any strings attached. Make him own the entirety of the economy. If he wants tax increases, increase them. If he wants a new stimulus, give it to him. If he wants more debt, go ahead and borrow. Bring every bill he proposes up for a vote, vote “present,” and stand back.

THEN you can say “we gave the Democrats what they wanted and it failed,” and have some glimmer of hope of being listened to. But as long as you negotiate and try to “compromise,” the blame will always fall on Republicans.

Shump on December 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM

We have met the enemy. They are us.

50sGuy on December 10, 2012 at 9:38 AM

The obvious questions still being, will low-information voters necessarily blame Democrats…..

I guess I’m part of this group now, not Democrat but a low-information voter.

Just won’t watch political TV anymore and do very little reading here since Nov 6. Don’t care anymore. Blame who for what. I blame the American idiot public is who I blame.

Marcus on December 10, 2012 at 9:39 AM

Let. It. Burn.

There seems to be a shift in definition of the L.I.B. philosophy, with some people narrowing the means of starting the fire to going over the fiscal cliff. That is only that start, and/or just one way to discredit leftist economics for a generation.

More broadly, letting it burn can be accomplished by “caving”, and giving Obama just what he, the Democrats, and a majority of the US electorate want: higher taxes, more entitlements, and more regulation.

Give the people what they want: give it to them good and hard.

Let. It. Burn.

MidniteRambler on December 10, 2012 at 9:39 AM

Over the weekend, a couple more GOPers endorsed a form of that potential scenario, admitting that Republicans have a pretty weak hand right now and that letting taxes increase would force Democrats to take full ownership of their policies.

It’s a euphemistic way of saying “let it burn”. Give Obama his tax hikes, watch the economy tank(also in large part because of Obamacare), and let the Dems own it. It’s a gamble since you never know how truly ignorant these low-information voters can be, but what’s the alternative? Go over the fiscal cliff, have everyone’s taxes go up, and be guaranteed the blame for it?

Doughboy on December 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Gullible gop for even thinking dear leader would act in good faith

Ain’t gonna happen

cmsinaz on December 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Let’s make it 75%. It’s working for France.

forest on December 10, 2012 at 9:42 AM

A growing number of non-conservatives are caving! Listen to the rehtoric and they always refer to entitlements as an area that needs reform. What about spending on non-entitlements, as well? The waste, fraud and corrupt practices inside the Beltway are what needs reform!

tomshup on December 10, 2012 at 9:44 AM

The gop is INCAPABLE of……….

This party is dead.

PappyD61 on December 10, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Give in on December 18th. Let taxes go up while Dear Liar vacations in Hawaii. Push that optics.

rbj on December 10, 2012 at 9:45 AM

But as long as you negotiate and try to “compromise,” the blame will always fall on Republicans.

Shump on December 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM

The only way to “compromise” when it comes to anything to do with taxation is to tie it to the immediate cuts in entitlements- specifically future entitlements for benificiaries of Medicare and Social Security. Not the Dems method of demanding higher taxes now while promising for entitlement reform in the future. If Boehner and the GOP are Charlie Brown to the Dem’s Lucy holding the football yet again, it is time for a groundswell of the productive that will make the TPM look tiny in comparison.

Put another way, just how long are the productive going to be expected to work their asses off so that the parasites who support Obama but pay nothing into the system gets a free ride off the sweat of others? I say at a minimum entitlement reform needs to start with the demand that welfare recipients put in a certain number of hours a week either in a part time job or community service. Why should these mooches lie around talking on their Obamaphones when they should either be out there working or giving something back to society for what they get.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 9:46 AM

If you want to try this strategy, and have any hope of it succeeding, the only way is to give Obama what he wants without any strings attached. Make him own the entirety of the economy. If he wants tax increases, increase them. If he wants a new stimulus, give it to him. If he wants more debt, go ahead and borrow. Bring every bill he proposes up for a vote, vote “present,” and stand back.

Shump on December 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM

The danger there is if the GOP voluntarily makes itself completely superfluous, the electorate will respond accordingly by voting in more Democrats(see California). I don’t mind giving Obama the tax hikes since he’s centered his entire reelection campaign and economic argument around it, but let’s not cave on everything.

Doughboy on December 10, 2012 at 9:48 AM

there’s no use playing the blame game

Pubs will lose

Slade73 on December 10, 2012 at 9:49 AM

you never know how truly ignorant these low-information voters can be?

Doughboy on December 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM

I think we established that on 6 Nov. And it’s worst than I thought.

Alabama Infidel on December 10, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Let the M-f’er burn, then we can start over.

MoreLiberty on December 10, 2012 at 9:51 AM

1. The Rs should totally make sure the blue states and liberal constituencies pay more in taxes.

2. It seems that the best way would be for Rs to concede the fight on taxes and then use the debt ceiling to force spending cuts. By taking taxes off the table, Barry wouldn’t be able to demagogue on this. he Rs could rightly point out that this was a pound of flesh that didn’t really produce enough revenue and that serious spending cuts are needed.

Illinidiva on December 10, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Let’s all go Timmy Geithner and just not pay any taxes. He doesn’t want to collect taxes (or pay them himself), anyway…

China is already slowly buying up the depressed real estate at bargain prices in the U.S…

Where are we going? Why is it so warm in here and why am I in a basket?

Fallon on December 10, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Jed Babbin has some food for thought re Boehner and his battle against conservatives.
http://spectator.org/archives/2012/12/10/throwing-conservatives-off-the

One of the commenters offered a suggestion. The House should pass two separtate bills: one that allows for an increase on taxation of the top 2% and another that extends the Bush tax rates for all. The Senate would likely pass the first one, O would sign it and thus own it. End of story.

onlineanalyst on December 10, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Meanwhile……………..

Charleston, like many cities, on edge of “fiscal cliff”
Sun Dec 9, 2012 11:08am EST
***************************

The Obama administration, which Republicans consider a profligate spender, has felt like lean times in neighborhoods like Chicora-Cherokee, Stanfield said.

“You know Mitt Romney said that people voted for Obama because of gifts?” Stanfield said. “There’s this misconception that President Obama has been a gravy train of funding.

There was more funding under President Bush of these organizations

than under Obama.”
(More…)
=========

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/09/us-usa-fiscal-charleston-idUSBRE8B801J20121209

canopfor on December 10, 2012 at 9:53 AM

These Gop people are not on your side. They are on their side. They care about themselves and retaining their small island of power. They are vampires and only look at you as an occasional meal. Beware of ever believing them on anything. They will negotiate the teeth right out of your head. They do this because we keep on electing them every 2,4,6 years. We have already been sold down the river and what your looking at is the ocean. And we all know ocean is blue. They all have nice big boats. I hope you have something to float upon.

rik on December 10, 2012 at 9:54 AM

The danger there is if the GOP voluntarily makes itself completely superfluous, the electorate will respond accordingly by voting in more Democrats(see California). I don’t mind giving Obama the tax hikes since he’s centered his entire reelection campaign and economic argument around it, but let’s not cave on everything.

Doughboy on December 10, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Good point. I say give him the increase, and when the revenue does nothing but fund the federal government for ten days, and our economy stagnates further – then goes into another recession – he and the DNC own it. But when that happens, he will respond that now we know that the middle-class needs to pay more taxes as well (See Howard Deans comments last week).

MoreLiberty on December 10, 2012 at 9:56 AM

75% of the people want gov. to reduce spending…yet I hear nothing from any party about reducing spending…

right2bright on December 10, 2012 at 9:58 AM

The GOP is gonna get absolutely TRASHED in the 2014 mid-terms.

SAMinVA on December 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM

I can’t help but noticing that the most vocal voices in favor of caving are Senators. I’m more afraid of the spineless orange person who is speaker of the House. By his covert “deal-making” with the rat-eared wonder we really don’t know what to expect other than more punishment to those who vocally oppose the GOP House leadership.

These are not happy times.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Because the Senate GOP is in the minority, so there’s less pressure on them to actually stand up for what the Republicans have argued all along (that raising any taxes would be bad).

We’ll certainly see tax increases on the wealthy…there’s just no way around it. Obama holds the upper hand, and the GOP inexplicably seems hell bent on strengthening it. But, it sure would be nice if they were out there pounding away on Obama, his spending, and how damaging this policy will be, and NOT conceding that the rich pay too little. The GOP has more to fear from disillusioned conservatives than they do from the broader electorate, most of whom would like to see them fighting instead of laying down.

changer1701 on December 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM

The GOP is gonna get absolutely TRASHED in the 2014 mid-terms.

SAMinVA on December 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Well it should be. Do you reward your child when it disobeys you ?

rik on December 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Honest to gawd – why does the GOP even pretend that they won’t bend over and take it? Are the GOP members so unbelievably stupid that they really think caving will mean that the Dems let something be done on entitlements? It just means the GOP will be blamed because they didn’t fold soon enough and far enough. They will get blamed for bad-mouthing his highness’ plane – souring the environment – so nothing – NOTHING will be the Dems fault.

It really has become a waste of time for pur side to even bother voting in elections.

katiejane on December 10, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Meanwhile….

Dec. 10, 2012, 9:44 a.m. EST
Obama-Boehner talks don’t cheer analysts
****************************************

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — News that President Barack Obama met privately with House Speaker John Boehner on Sunday did not lift the gloom in Washington surrounding the fiscal cliff.

“In reality, the clock is winding down and there has not been any meaningful positive movement on the fiscal cliff since the election,” said Charles Krueger, senior policy analyst at Washington Research Group.
(More….)
===========

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-boehner-talks-dont-cheer-analysts-2012-12-10

canopfor on December 10, 2012 at 10:07 AM

jfc, just extend the tax rates as separate bills, one for the highest rate, and another for all the other rates.

That way no one violates their pledge, but Obama can’t blame the GOP for raising anyone’s taxes or going over the cliff. He will get what he claims to want and be forced to own the coming recession.

It’s not that complicated.

commodore on December 10, 2012 at 10:07 AM

The media spin this week: republicans should give in on tax rates so we can call them spineless, and we should all vote for Hilary next time.

Fleuries on December 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Fiscal Cliff Tachometer,
er,DoomsDay Clock
*****************

http://www.marketwatch.com/fiscalcliff

canopfor on December 10, 2012 at 10:10 AM

I hope the Mayans were right.

That’s the only hope the gop has.

PappyD61 on December 10, 2012 at 10:10 AM

But, it sure would be nice if they were out there pounding away on Obama, his spending, and how damaging this policy will be, and NOT conceding that the rich pay too little. The GOP has more to fear from disillusioned conservatives than they do from the broader electorate, most of whom would like to see them fighting instead of laying down.

changer1701 on December 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM

The GOP controls one-half of one-third of government (judiciary is clearly leftist after the Obamacare ruling). The message should be immediate scorched earth push-back when the rat-eared wonder or one of his minions try to blame this on the GOP. Starting with the question- how can you blame this on us when the Dems have had control of the Senate and executive for years?

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:11 AM

I actually think it has merit where you go ahead and give the president the two percent increase

Obama already has a 3.9% surcharge on AGI above 200/250K (single/married) and a .9% medicare surcharge on AGI above 200/250K plus increases in capital gains and dividends. I know this is all supposed to pay for Otaxacare but like medicare and SS it will go into a common pot and any excesses will be spent elsewhere. So what is being asked is that we give the dims additional tax dollars because their static analysis says they’ll get more money. How did that work out for California after the passage of Prop 30. Didn’t they fall short by nearly a billion in the prediction.

And why do we keep arguing on the dims turf. There is no such thing as entitlements. SCOTUS ruled in 1960 that you don’t have a property right to Social Security and there is no reason to believe they would rule differently on Medicare. Every thing should be on the table for cuts.

chemman on December 10, 2012 at 10:12 AM

The danger there is if the GOP voluntarily makes itself completely superfluous, the electorate will respond accordingly by voting in more Democrats(see California). I don’t mind giving Obama the tax hikes since he’s centered his entire reelection campaign and economic argument around it, but let’s not cave on everything.

Doughboy on December 10, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Sorry, but I favor caving on everything. Everything budget- and fiscal-related, at least.

The GOP is not going to accomplish anything significant over the next two years. The best they can hope for if they continue fighting is to tinker around the edges and win what are, at best, “moral victories” where we make a slight dent to this program or that. But with Democrats in control of the Senate and Obama in the White House, you will never make the kind of major changes that are needed to fix the problem.

Meanwhile, while we’re tinkering around the edges, the nation’s economy will continue to decline based on the policies of the Obama administration. But Republicans will continue to be blamed for it because of our tinkering. “If only they hadn’t cut this vital program,” Obama will say, “things would be better for the American people.” “I wanted a new round of stimulus spending that would have put you all to work on shovel-ready jobs, but the Republicans wouldn’t let me.” And the voters will believe it.

Our only hope — and I admit, it’s a slim one — is to batten down the hatches, give Obama whatever he wants, let it burn, and then speak to the voters frankly about the results of the Democrats’ policies.

Shump on December 10, 2012 at 10:12 AM

As I said on the QOTD:

“It’s quite the opposite. We gain leverage,” Cole said…

Or you are seen as weak, spineless and easy to be walked over… the MFM puts glory on the Democrats for making you cave, then doesn’t put any pressure on the D’s for ‘spending reform’ and makes the R’s look like scrooges who want to cut granny’s SSA.

Haven’t these bozos learned ANYTHING about the duplicity of the MFM over the past two decades?

Damned if you do.

Damned if you don’t.

So don’t bother and save your energy. Let your enemy exhaust themselves and go on vacation. Obama does it. Just follow suit and see how many golf games you can get in. It isn’t as if you are going to WIN anything from the MFM either way.

ajacksonian on December 10, 2012 at 10:13 AM

you never know how truly ignorant these low-information voters Repunk Congress Critters and Senate Scum can be?

No talk of cutting Solyndra, Fiscer, Volt, overseas payoffs for global warming, overseas payoffs for Mooslim Bruthahood, payments to brazile to extract oil while our production is blocked on land and sea?
No weapons?
The GOP doesn’t know a weapon when it being used to dig their graves.
Those FBI files must be a hoot! They saw what happened to the Secret Service and several Generals, Herman Cain and Petraeus, they are bought and paid for by the commie regime!

ConcealedKerry on December 10, 2012 at 10:13 AM

I hope the Mayans were right.

PappyD61 on December 10, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Even then, Candy Crowley will put down the bucket of fried chicken long enough to blame GWB for the end-of-times. With the rat-eared wonder screaming “can you say that louder Candy.”

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Does no one in government represent real conservative views?

sadatoni on December 10, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Hold the line!

(oh, sorry, I forgot we elected rinos who have no spine)

Amjean on December 10, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Oooooh boy,……………

The Associated Press ‏@AP

Dick Armey says says the Republican Party and stupid statements by some candidates are to blame for GOP’s losses: http://apne.ws/YTn3Pl -RAS
==============

Former tea party leader blames GOP for setbacks
Dec. 10 9:32 AM EST

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/former-tea-party-leader-blames-gop-setbacks

canopfor on December 10, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Someone in the GOP needs to grow a set (that’s a tall order right there!) and tell the American people that we know full well the democrats will never uphold their end of the bargain. The democrats will never agree to any meaningful entitlement reform. We just need to come out and say it.

CurtZHP on December 10, 2012 at 10:17 AM

commodore on December 10, 2012 at 10:07 AM

They don’t have to extend any rates. The “Bush” tax tables expire in 21 days. Everyone’s rates return to the Clinton era rates. That is what the dims and Obama wanted in the lame duck 2010 session. Let them have the rates. Yes it will hurt me as a retiree but so what. The dims are scared the middle and lower classes will revolt over the increase and want to cancel it. This whole tax the rich cr*p sandwich is about extending the below 200/250 K rates. Let them eat what they passed.

chemman on December 10, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Was Scarborough part of the MessNBC party invited to the WH? Someone needs to school him on economics and shut Bill Kristol into a vault.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2012/12/10/scarborough-conservatism-racket-lot-people-get-very-very-rich

Are the Republicans unable or unwilling to use the services of a PR-marketing strategist able to convincingly employ linguistic “tricks” to counter-attack the Dems’ ploys?

Notice how smug Schumer is in that video clip when Wallace credits him with being right.

onlineanalyst on December 10, 2012 at 10:18 AM

There should be some pressure put on vulnerable Sen. Democrats to go on record about the fiscal cliff/taxation issue. They are getting a free ride via their silence.

onlineanalyst on December 10, 2012 at 10:20 AM

I don’t understand why the GOP in the house doesn’t create and pass a bill called something like the “Clinton Economy Return Bill” setting the tax rates as they were under Clinton and also capping spending at the Clinton rates indexed to population & inflation.

They could then go out on a full court press and tell everyone that the Democrats have been calling the Clinton Era a golden age and so they’re just returning the Federal Government to that era.

They could also just grab the last Clinton budget and pass it again…

TG_68 on December 10, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Honest to gawd – why does the GOP even pretend that they won’t bend over and take it? Are the GOP members so unbelievably stupid that they really think caving will mean that the Dems let something be done on entitlements? It just means the GOP will be blamed because they didn’t fold soon enough and far enough. They will get blamed for bad-mouthing his highness’ plane – souring the environment – so nothing – NOTHING will be the Dems fault.

It really has become a waste of time for pur side to even bother voting in elections.

katiejane on December 10, 2012 at 10:06 AM

They’re grasping at straws with the entitlement reform later gambit. It won’t happen, not with Obama in the WH and spineless GOPers in Congress. It’s a face-saving maneuver designed to convince us that the GOP wrangled something out of this mess, after they cave on tax hikes. In reality, all they will have done is kick the can down the road.

But whatever. Let it burn. Voters want their stuff, but they don’t want to pay for it. Better that they understand there’s no such thing as a free lunch sooner than later.

changer1701 on December 10, 2012 at 10:22 AM

The economy is pretty much dead anyway. Let Obama have everything he wants. He can declare Congress useless and send them home and finally rule by decree. He acts like he’s already been declared the King on America, so let him have it.

If he was serious about our economy or our country, he would cancel his $4 million vacation and his $100 million coronation. Not much when compared to trillions, but it’s a start. (But that would impact him personally, so that won’t happen…someone else has to sacrifice.)

He wants it…let him own it. we’re screwed anyway. Besides sending Congress home would save us billions in their salaries and benefits alone.

xmanvietnam on December 10, 2012 at 10:22 AM

The democrats will never agree to any meaningful entitlement reform. We just need to come out and say it.

CurtZHP on December 10, 2012 at 10:17 AM

The GOP needs to be an acknowledge that the Dems are not bargaining in good faith. They do not have an agenda other than raising taxes on the rich. Beyond that they are not willing to or have any intention of fixing the spending portion of the fiscal cliff. Then inform the public that the GOP is ceasing all discussion with the administration on economic issues until the Dems demonstrate that they are willing to reach real compromise. (hint: it starts by the rat-eared wonder doing more than sitting down at a kitchen table with moochers in Northern Virginia or going to a UAW rally in Detroit).

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Sorry to say I just voted for Corker again. Six more years is a long time to hear his whinny, weak voice. Should have known better when those photos of his daughter passionately locking lips w/ another girl. As mayor of Chattanoogna, he endorsed tax hikes there and now in DC.

Choices have consequences. Unfortunately, he was the most conservative at the time.

purgatory on December 10, 2012 at 10:28 AM

The GOP is gonna get absolutely TRASHED in the 2014 mid-terms.

SAMinVA on December 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Well it should be. Do you reward your child when it disobeys you ?

rik on December 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM

In the past I’ve mostly voted Republican because I was more afraid of what the Democrats would do to this country than the alternative (that and lingering affection for Ronald Reagan.) I just don’t have that fear anymore. I can’t abide this party anymore.

SAMinVA on December 10, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Odumbo is TOO BLACK to FAIL.

He will not “own” or be held accountable OR responsible for anything that matters. National media will NEVER be critical of him.

Reps will be blamed anyway, regardless of how the deal comes out.

Extend BUSH tax cuts- steal Ocommies class warfare ploy thunder for 2013 middle class tax cuts- and stick with tweaking tax code to eat the rich.

This is a lose/lose for Reps.

FlaMurph on December 10, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Voters want their stuff, but they don’t want to pay for it. Better that they understand there’s no such thing as a free lunch sooner than later.

changer1701 on December 10, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Let’s put that in clearer perspective. For all the Julias out there…. the moochers, takers, and parasites that voted Obama in for a second term. Sandra Fluke may not be paying for her birth control but somebody who works and contributes to society is. In short, it may be your kids, grandkids, those who make more than the median, or some other group but giving a slut free contraception means that somebody else is getting the bill.

And that holds true of any entitlement program. There are no magic beans or fairy dust that pays the bill for the parasites clinging despeately to the free stuff promised to them by the rat-eared wonder.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Boehner’s biggest threat…and possibly Saxby Chambliss’s:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335187/boehner-s-biggest-threat-robert-costa

onlineanalyst on December 10, 2012 at 10:33 AM

Well it should be. Do you reward your child when it disobeys you ?

rik on December 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Zing! I for one refuse to reward those foolish little children any longer, anywhere, at any time! I’m voting pure 3rd-party with a completely clean conscience.

It is utterly pointless to vote for a party that not only has a distressingly long record of acting like Democrats, but doesn’t even stand up to them. 2012 was their last chance to redeem themselves; by 2016 there won’t be anything worth voting over.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 10:34 AM

There should be some pressure put on vulnerable Sen. Democrats to go on record about the fiscal cliff/taxation issue. They are getting a free ride via their silence.

onlineanalyst on December 10, 2012 at 10:20 AM

Yeah, whatever happened to that fraud called “Blue Dog Democrats”? The ones who talk like Reagan at home but vote like Harry Reid in DC. The group in the House were pretty proud of that label, but those left don’t seem to bring it up anymore.

Alabama Infidel on December 10, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Sorry to say I just voted for Corker again.
purgatory on December 10, 2012 at 10:28 AM

.
At least he doesn’t stutter like he did when he played the bumbling, yet confident, defense attorney in My Cousin Vinnie.

FlaMurph on December 10, 2012 at 10:36 AM

Odumbo is TOO BLACK to FAIL.

FlaMurph on December 10, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Until that is understood and hawked from every corner – naturally, causing a massive race card usage and subsequent honest discussion on racial relations – the nation will not understand how badly we’ve been pwned.

Archivarix on December 10, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Archivarix on December 10, 2012 at 10:39 AM

My generation is not only going to have to deal with fiscal reality, but racial reality. And probably both at the same time.

This is, to put it very mildly, a dangerous scenario.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 10:41 AM

PETER SCHIFF: First of all, I’m in the top two percent. Right now, I’m paying 45% of my total income in income taxes, both to the state of Connecticut and to the federal government, and if you take the 3% Medicare tax. After the tax hikes go into effect next year, more than half — more than half of my total income is going to go to the government. You tell me, what’s fair about that when medieval serfs pay 25%, I’m paying half? I don’t care what the majority voted to do, they don’t have a right to steal my money just because they vote for it.

right2bright on December 10, 2012 at 10:44 AM

These Gop people are not on your side. They are on their side. They care about themselves and retaining their small island of power. They are vampires and only look at you as an occasional meal. Beware of ever believing them on anything. They will negotiate the teeth right out of your head. They do this because we keep on electing them every 2,4,6 years. We have already been sold down the river and what your looking at is the ocean. And we all know ocean is blue. They all have nice big boats. I hope you have something to float upon.

rik on December 10, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Sad but true. Really good post.

SparkPlug on December 10, 2012 at 10:44 AM

My generation is not only going to have to deal with fiscal reality, but racial reality. And probably both at the same time.

This is, to put it very mildly, a dangerous scenario.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 10:41 AM

OR, somebody could come up with a vaccine for “White Guilt”.

Alabama Infidel on December 10, 2012 at 10:44 AM

By taking taxes off the table, Barry wouldn’t be able to demagogue on this.

Illinidiva on December 10, 2012 at 9:52 AM

LOL

I can’t take credit for it, nor give any because I dno’t remember who did it yesterday, but, let me recap (with apologies to the original poster):

By taking taxes off the table, Barry wouldn’t be able to demagogue on this…

By taking immigration off the table, Barry wouldn’t be able to demagogue on this…

By taking energy off the table, Barry wouldn’t be able to demagogue on this…

yadda yadda

Not to mention, if you think “Barry wouldn’t be able to demagogue on this”, whatever “this” is, then you haven’t been paying attention.

He damn well will, and the media will damn well help him, and we’ll still be whining and wondering “wtf?” – and losing.

Midas on December 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM

This is, to put it very mildly, a dangerous scenario.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 10:41 AM

I don’t know why you say that just because some racial groups have been taught that they are entitled to take whatever they want as a “right” to make other racial groups atone for past harm. Mark my words, when the moochers and other parasites are forced into more austere conditions by economic reality, it will be the inner cities that are burning first.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM

…vote Present !…or lose your party…and who knows how many future R elections to the D’s!

KOOLAID2 on December 10, 2012 at 10:48 AM

All low information voters will remember is who was President. Period.

jims on December 10, 2012 at 10:48 AM

The house has been passing fiscally conservative bills for months now. It hasn’t put any pressure at all on Obama or the Senate. Republicans have leverage against reasonable Democrats – but there aren’t many of them in power right now.

It’s hard to bargain with idiots, because you have no way of knowing what they want, or what they will agree to.

hawksruleva on December 10, 2012 at 10:48 AM

I guess I’m part of this group now, not Democrat but a low-information voter.

Just won’t watch political TV anymore and do very little reading here since Nov 6. Don’t care anymore. Blame who for what. I blame the American idiot public is who I blame.

Marcus on December 10, 2012 at 9:39 AM

Me too. On the positive side, I discovered The Big Bang Theory on TBS and find myself vastly entertained.

I am in the “Let it Burn” cabal. If we continue to try to save people (and democrats) from the consequences of their own wants and actions, they will never learn and Hillary Clinton will be President in 2016.

HawaiiLwyr on December 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM

The growing GOP tax-cave chorus?

The GOPe never had any intentions of doing anything other than raising taxes. They are every bit as much Marxist liars and thieves as the Democrat’s are. This is nothing more than Kabuki Theater to deceive the Republican base into believing that they put up the best fight they could.

The Bottom line is this, neither the Whitehouse nor the Senate can appropriate money or pay one single federal bill. That authority and responsibility belongs solely and exclusively to the House. The GOPe control the house. If the GOPe actually ever had any intentions of cutting spending or lowering taxes, they and they alone have the authority and responsibility to do so.

SWalker on December 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM

PETER SCHIFF: First of all, I’m in the top two percent. Right now, I’m paying 45% of my total income in income taxes, both to the state of Connecticut and to the federal government, and if you take the 3% Medicare tax. After the tax hikes go into effect next year, more than half — more than half of my total income is going to go to the government. You tell me, what’s fair about that when medieval serfs pay 25%, I’m paying half? I don’t care what the majority voted to do, they don’t have a right to steal my money just because they vote for it.

Quick question: how would Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, James Madison et al answer this question, especially with added context of regulation, Obamacare mandates, leader taking lavish $4million vacations while the serfs grow ever-more impoverished and dependent on the government, etc? Just curious.

Midas on December 10, 2012 at 10:51 AM

I don’t know why you say that just because some racial groups have been taught that they are entitled to take whatever they want as a “right” to make other racial groups atone for past harm.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM

I’m NOT and I DIDN’T.

Mark my words, when the moochers and other parasites are forced into more austere conditions by economic reality, it will be the inner cities that are burning first.

Oh yes, they’ll burn first allright…

But the sheer number of moochers is not going to be contained by the inner cities.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 10:51 AM

If you want to try this strategy, and have any hope of it succeeding, the only way is to give Obama what he wants without any strings attached. Make him own the entirety of the economy. If he wants tax increases, increase them. If he wants a new stimulus, give it to him. If he wants more debt, go ahead and borrow. Bring every bill he proposes up for a vote, vote “present,” and stand back.

THEN you can say “we gave the Democrats what they wanted and it failed,” and have some glimmer of hope of being listened to. But as long as you negotiate and try to “compromise,” the blame will always fall on Republicans.

Shump on December 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM

I also find it interesting that the Dims (even the Trolls here on HotAir) find this a worry. They want the GOP to effect the legislation somehow to that their lies will be covered. Look, legislation is always fluid and the Government is an expert at snatching toys away at the last second and demanding more (look at how long Marijuana legalization has been promised, yet never delivered.

This truly is a battle for the core. A huge spike in taxes will cause the rich to flee and a meltdown of our Country. It will also repudiate everything the Liberals stand for. Let Them Burn.

As a side note, Jefferson ran the Country (and greatly expanded it) with no internal taxes whatsoever, only a tarriff on goods produced overseas. A Let It Burn approach will also repudiate the Republican position of “Free Trade” as well as allowing illegals into the country to do your lawn work, fix your roof, keep real estate construction prices down and lower the price of tomato picking. Setting the Welfare indigents (except those who can not work like the blind or the crippled) into these jobs would help the economy a great deal. Illegals would go home and the poor would have useful work. But that would take guts and our political store of guts is very low. I have often wondered how “Conservatives” like McCain feel when they see the kid with Downs syndrome happily working packing groceries while the fat Welfare queens be “getting up in your face” over their section 8 benefits and ETB. I can tell you, the ETB people are laughing at you.

Bulletchaser on December 10, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Our only hope — and I admit, it’s a slim one — is to batten down the hatches, give Obama whatever he wants, let it burn, and then speak to the voters frankly about the results of the Democrats’ policies.

Shump on December 10, 2012 at 10:12 AM

True.

Off topic a bit, but yesterday my wife and I were trying to think of one good thing that Obama has done for the country. One. Just one. We thought about the killing of bin Laden, but, contrary to the media portrayal, Obama had little or nothing to do with that- he was basically like a state governor who doesn’t actively stop the execution of a criminal.
So we were left with nothing as the answer- nada; zilch; zero.
Can anyone name one good thing that Obama has done for the nation?

justltl on December 10, 2012 at 10:54 AM

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2012/12/10/scarborough-conservatism-racket-lot-people-get-very-very-rich

Are the Republicans unable or unwilling to use the services of a PR-marketing strategist able to convincingly employ linguistic “tricks” to counter-attack the Dems’ ploys?

onlineanalyst on December 10, 2012 at 10:18 AM

Misdirection about why there is a gap in wages…

…New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, are home to the greatest extremes in incomes, while midsized cities experience relatively less wage inequality and rural areas the least.

So what’s behind the mega income gap in megacities? The soaring salaries of many urban dwellers, conclude the authors.

Larger metropolitan areas, more so than their smaller counterparts or rural areas, have experienced rapid growth in wages within all skill levels, the study finds. From high school dropouts to professionals, many workers in large metropolitan regions have enjoyed fatter paychecks. At the same time, the bottom has fallen out of the lower end jobs, especially in bigger cities, says Baum-Snow.

“Something fundamental has changed in our economy, and it’s happening at the metropolitan level,” explains Baum-Snow. While wages have always run higher in cities, prior to 1979, wage inequality was roughly equal regardless of where workers resided. Not so today. Now the local economy – specifically the size of the metropolitan area – predicts wage inequality, the study finds…

But, aren’t large cities usually run by Democrats? Weird dichotomy, eh?

Fallon on December 10, 2012 at 10:54 AM

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 10:51 AM

I’m NOT and I DIDN’T.

Sorry, I forgot the sarc tag.

But the sheer number of moochers is not going to be contained by the inner cities.

No, but for whatever reason societal parasites always seem to destroy their own nests first.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Another quotes fail… I should hang it up today.

Fallon on December 10, 2012 at 10:55 AM

RINO’s have been the “only” enabler/enabling of the commie Democrats now for to long.

McCain’s gangs of make deals from inside our camp.

In the day of the conquest of our Apache tribes, these types where hired at “scouts” for the armies if the Spanish, Mexican and Americans who made war on the Apache for our lands and gold.

As a Vietnam Vet I am very tired of accepting excuses for him for the last 30 years.

He is what he is this moment in time.

If the Republican Party does not fix itself, history will do the job for them and soon.

Stand and fight, and do it now, time is not on our constitution and freedoms side. Time does not even know the war on U.S. is going on.

We have the personal responsibilty and no others.

Act.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Let it fold. When TSHTF, we can do a reset and straighten the country out…may take a few decades, but the young, ‘know it all – do nothings’ need some hardship in their lives.

xmanvietnam on December 10, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Didn’t Hitler do this same thing?…take all the concessions he could get, then invade, anyway… I can almost see the lackey, Boehner, standing next to an airplane, victoriously waving a paper agreement, and announcing that “…We have peace in our time…” Man up, Johnny boy, try to understand that we are at war with these liars.

uncle_fweddy on December 10, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Yeah, whatever happened to that fraud called “Blue Dog Democrats”?

Alabama Infidel on December 10, 2012 at 10:34 AM

For the most part they lived in GOP-leaning areas and lost their seats in the past 4 years. there are only about a dozen left in the house, way too few to make a difference.

alwaysfiredup on December 10, 2012 at 11:00 AM

justltl Dec. 10,2012 1054

He has grown older.

Looks like father time at least is on our side and still in the fight.

Republican boot licker leadership, not so much.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:00 AM

It doesn’t matter what the GOP does, or for that matter the Dems. One will be smeared and lied about, the other as saviors, guess who? Republicans can’t seem to grasp this. Fight it tooth and nail , to the bitter end, and run on it.

arand on December 10, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Mark my words, when the moochers and other parasites are forced into more austere conditions by economic reality, it will be the inner cities that are burning first.

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Without economic redistribution this is going to happen anyway. Progressives have trashed the cities so there is no opportunity for jobs even if the economy picked up. Unions have priced themselves out of the market in the private sector and the public isn’t sustainable.

Its welfare or nothing.

BullShooterAsInElk on December 10, 2012 at 11:04 AM

The RINO’s see their chance, they will go along now with these commies to get the “gold” they lust for too.

Take “amnesty”, the pure back stabing Kay Baily , unRepublican of Texas has herself as a lame duck introduced a amnesty bill in the Senate. Former Pes. Bush is gone public on this. Others of the Rinos will join in and enable the Democrats/Obama to pass it with Democrats leading the way so’s they can hide behind the D’s when in fact the leadership of the Republican Party traitors within that will enable this fraud upon our citizenship.

They have no respect for U.S. the people or the constitution.

They are about the “Two Party Evil Money Cult” power in Washington D.C. and nothing else.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Republicans should present two separate bills to vote on:

Bill # 1: Extend the Bush tax cuts to people making up to $ 200,000 (single), $ 250,000 (married). This will be signed by Obama…

Bill # 2: Also extend the Bush tax cuts to people making over $ 200,000 (single), $ 250,000 (married). This will pass in the House, may be in the Senate, but for certain Obama will veto it…

So on record Obama will veto tax cuts for the jobs creators and he will own the economic disaster that would follow… Yeah the f***ing media will protect him but they will not succeed…

mnjg on December 10, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Bulletchaser on December 10, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Notice how you never have progressive trolls coming on to say “YES–please give President Obama everything he wants, because the economy will improve, war will end, unicorns will fart rainbows”, and so on.

Deep down, the lefties know their policies will fail. That is why none of them are cheering for the “let it burn” strategy.

MidniteRambler on December 10, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Deep down, the lefties know their policies will fail. That is why none of them are cheering for the “let it burn” strategy.

MidniteRambler on December 10, 2012 at 11:10 AM

I suspect they also fear that some of the conservatives will actually come after them for ruining things when order finally breaks down

IMHO, those fears are somewhat overblown, but it’s still there.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM

With the exception of unlimited debt ceiling, vote present and let them get everything they want.

Then start a PR campaign drilling it into the public consciousness that the GOP did not vote for ANYTHING that was passed. It belongs entirely to the Democrats.

The Rogue Tomato on December 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Could be the two party evil money cult is holding up this “cliff jumping” to hide the other real evil they seek to slide past U.S. while we gaze so close at what they hold in front of U.S..

They can not be trusted at all these two co-fraud operations.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Give Bronco what he wants in exchange for full and complete control of national energy and national resources policy.

Enabling exploration and drilling/mining without burdensome oversight would rapidly produce a viable recovery with resultant increases in jobs and revenues. And should bring about enough increased economic activity to relieve the political pressure on both parties that could enable serious discussion about future entitlement reforms, etc.

Bronco can appease his ecofanatics by implying that hard times require serious compromise but he did his very best (a win) and the Reps get to actually accomplish something without looking overly aggressive or conversely – wimpy as hell.

HAHA – someday?

koaiko on December 10, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Current: The Democrats and Republicans are the “carnie barkers” at a low budget midway of crooked games no one wins except for the fake made in China giveaway dolls for our kids to pay for later.

See them for what they are, frauds.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:19 AM

It is pretty tough going when all the president has to say is, “I’m not going to play these games.”

And that is enough for the media and most people.

It is just a fact.

If you don’t have a plan showing why it fails and why it wasn’t your fault…it doesn’t matter.

We just sit around waiting to make last minute deals to save our hides.

tomas on December 10, 2012 at 11:20 AM

We. Are. Broke. And that’s minimizing were we are, we owe 16 TRILLION dollars on our way to 20! And our leaders are locked in a squabble over 7% of just the deficit?

What’s worse is American’s are scared to death, its why a lying, smearing, fraud of a far left President was reelected, they don’t have the ability to accept the trouble we’re in, to fix this requires a new way to approach people because they don’t want to hear it.

This nation is headed for a very harsh lesson in debtor economics, American’s are already deer in the headlights, that has to change.

Speakup on December 10, 2012 at 11:22 AM

The Spanish came an offered the weak within the Apache nation, mezcal, and to many took the evil offer.

The commie Democrats enabled by the RINO’s offer to the current weak in the place of mezcal, “the dole” and free other stuff.

It will have the exact same result.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Now: Give him what he wants other than removing the debt ceiling.
Later:Impeach the bastard.

justltl on December 10, 2012 at 11:29 AM

The Spanish came an offered the weak within the Apache nation, mezcal, and to many took the evil offer.

The commie Democrats enabled by the RINO’s offer to the current weak in the place of mezcal, “the dole” and free other stuff.

It will have the exact same result.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:27 AM

And when they add their version of mezcal (pot and probably crack soon after), it will work even better.

There is no more futile resistance than a populace that spends half of its time in a drug haze and the other squandering their welfare money on booze and lottery tickets.

MelonCollie on December 10, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Why doesn’t the GOP define their own agenda and stop letting Obama do it? Why aren’t they out making speeches at factories?

I’m beginning to think that they’re pretty much OK with the status quo as long as they get their cut.

PattyJ on December 10, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Once again, when given the chance to choose between what is right for our nation versus what will gain them more power, they choose power. And once again “All” Republicans, including Conservatives will be blamed when it all falls to pieces.

SGinNC on December 10, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Keep it simple:

Use “results management” on both the Republicans and Democrats.

The “results” are clear and easy to see.

Judge them on the results.

Act upon what the truth shows U.S. clear.

There are those within who are weak and have enabled these results, and we others must face both those voters and the two party evil money cult who use these weak ones.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM

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