MSNBC host: Energy is just too darn cheap

posted at 5:31 pm on December 8, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

While I was taking a short break from working this morning and fixing some breakfast, my TV was still on in the background, tuned in to MSNBC. The host of Up With Chris Hayes was holding court over a panel discussion on domestic energy issues, so since that’s pretty much my field I had decided to tune in. The initial discussion had roped in quite a bit of the usual disinformation on natural gas fracking (which appeared to draw heavily on “facts” from fabulist Josh Fox’s fictional propaganda piece, Gasland). There was one industry “advocate” included who I wasn’t familiar with, but she never seemed to manage to take a stand against any of the worst of the energy witch-hunt comments being thrown around, which led to my wandering off to fry up some scrapple and eggs.

But then, just as Hayes was preparing to toss to a commercial break, one quote reached my ears which quickly dragged me back to the TV.

My sense is that the price of energy is too low at some level right now, and I want to talk about that right after we take this break.

This link goes to the video of that segment should you wish to hear it for yourself, but you’ll need to fast forward to the very end to find it. When the panel returned, this enticing topic was explored in greater depth, including the following clip (with transcript after) where Hayes is talking with – among others – CNBC’s Dan Dicker.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

This is a bit long, but worth the time. (Emphasis mine.)

Chris Hayes: We’re talking about the massive, extractive energy boom happening in America right now and how it’s transforming our politics and how that can be made to work with a sane climate policy, which is really the difficult question. Before the break I left the question on the table about the price of energy being too low right now. Basically we see this massive amount of supply has come onto the grid thanks largely to natural gas. The price has come down, and I think we generally think, “Oh, lower prices are better.” But it seems to me there’s a lot of problematic stuff about the price coming down sharply as it is right now in terms of incentives for efficiency and et cetera.

Dan Dicker: You would want the prices to go up a lot because it would drive the next stage towards renewables, and make that at least cost-effective. Algae fuel, we talk a lot about that…

C.H.: Some people talk about that.

D.D.: Yeah. The cost is about eight and a half to nine dollars a gallon compared to gasoline as it is now. You want the prices to go up to make these a little more cost effective. Drive the technology into them. Unfortunately it’s actually going quite the opposite. You talk about increased supply here in the United States. In fact, overseas demand is dropping. We are still in the midst of an economic problem in Europe. Chinese growth is going down. Indian growth seems to be going down. In this country we’ve done better in terms of efficiencies and our demands are starting to drop, so in terms of what economically you can expect, you will expect the opposite, or at least I do over the next several years, that oil prices will in fact go lower. Natural gas you can – because we have a futures market, we look forward to the future and see what people are betting the price is going to be. That doesn’t go over 5$ an MCF until 2020 according to the futures markets. So although you might want… we have to drive the renewable argument some other way, because price doesn’t look like it’s going to do it.

Frances Beinecke: Look, the only thing that’s going to change that is if we finally put a price on carbon.

C.H.: Right.

F.B.: The externals of all the fossil fuel development are not incorporated in the current price, so the environmental effects, the health effects, the consequences to communities, none of that is factored in. We have to change that, get a price on carbon, drive it up so we can promote renewables and efficiencies first and foremost.

Granted, these are the guests on the show talking here, but the nodding of heads around the table and the continued discussion demonstrates the unanimous attitude of the panel, including the host. So why would I make you sit through this? Because it’s important. And it’s important because it’s real, and we wind up having to be out there fighting against this tide every single day. These groups of self described liberal, effete intellectuals who appear to have no connection to real people, real science or reality in general are out there with a powerful set of microphones. These preening packs of self-appointed saviors of humanity – who have probably never even come within sight of an actual oil rig unless their cruise ship happened to pass one by – have long since figured out the answers to all of your “problems” when it comes to energy, and it’s based on taxing you into submission regardless of how much energy we manage to produce.

I’ve had the fortune over these past several years to travel and learn about these industries first hand and write about it. I’ve been to oil rigs on the sea, natural gas horizontal drilling platforms in Pennsylvania and even gone to the Northern end of Alberta, Canada to research SAGD drilling technology for bitumen hybrids. The research that has gone into this… the bone crushing work these men and women do… the future that so many of them are slowly transforming into a reality… it’s awe inspiring. But there is still a very vocal, screeching cohort of people out there wielding influence vastly out of proportion to their numbers who want to shut it all down. They can’t seem to stop the opportunities for jobs and economic security which seem to be just over the horizon right now by delivering alternative energies today which actually work and can profitably provide a replacement. So, instead, they’ll shut it down by pricing your energy costs out of your reach. The country is still struggling with underemployment, but these happy warriors would be delighted to take those who actually have decent jobs and drive the price of the gas they use to get to their place of employment up to ten bucks a gallon.

And for what? On Hayes’ show he even admitted that the recent surge in natural gas usage has driven carbon based emissions down to the lowest levels seen in decades. But is that enough? No. It is not. Because somebody, somewhere is still burning hydrocarbon based fuels. And that’s got to be stopped, no matter the cost to the country.

Look, I’m not saying this is the most shocking thing Chris Hayes has ever done or said, nor that it even represents some sort of low point. (I highly doubt he’ll ever top his now famous moment when he decided he was uncomfortable referring to the Honored Dead as heroes.) But there is a repeating pattern here of media spokesmodels who seem to be so out of touch with the lives, concerns and challenges facing regular Americans that one wonders if they ever leave Manhattan. And you should be disturbed by this, because there are still people who listen. Some of them even vote in Congress.


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Algae fuel, we talk a lot about that…


Still Operating A 20th Century Farm?


Obama’s New State-Run News Channel

Resist We Much on December 8, 2012 at 7:07 PM

Look, the only thing that’s going to change that is if we finally put a price on carbon.

-
Which once fully implemented will be the world’s most regressive tax. The working poor will be crushed by “these preening packs of self-appointed saviors of humanity”‘s good intentions.
-

RalphyBoy on December 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM

He’s the female version of Rachel Maddow.

factsonlypls on December 8, 2012 at 7:11 PM

why our country is going down the drain

davidk on December 8, 2012 at 6:38 PM

When the teet dries up, he will be a predator among the elite libiots from the the subject video.

I won’t save them. Just get rid of the varmint after he has culled the herd enough.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM

This is why people are quickly arming themselves – the Leftist’s indoctrination is that it is morally okay to steal the property of some through the proxy of government because those folks “don’t pay their fair share” or some other arbitrary nonsense.

When the till runs out those people are going to start looking to take what they think they are “Owed” directly and by force.

BTW:

Smith & Wesson announces record profits
http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/07/smith-wesson-announces-record-profits/

Galt2009 on December 8, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Nothing will ever change until millions of people begin dragging these totalitarian tyrants out of their ivory towers.

These people are insane and they’re willing to kill millions in the name of their insanity.

darwin on December 8, 2012 at 7:11 PM

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Just curious. Its a nice round.

Schadenfreude on December 8, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Not another piece of silver or gold heading from me to the treasury. To hades with the lot of them. I am almost though the majority of it. : )

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 7:12 PM

Think: UN Agenda 21.

butterflylady on December 8, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Nothing will ever change until millions of people begin dragging these totalitarian tyrants out of their ivory towers.

These people are insane and they’re willing to kill millions in the name of their insanity.

darwin on December 8, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Their ilk has done so through the ages – Lenin, Stalin, Che Guevara, Pol Pot, Caesar Chávez, kim Jong mentally ill….. the list goes on and on…

Galt2009 on December 8, 2012 at 7:21 PM

The very definition of a worthless human being. And like Obama, he thinks himself a genius.

pat on December 8, 2012 at 7:23 PM

But there is a repeating pattern here of media spokesmodels who seem to be so out of touch with the lives, concerns and challenges facing regular Americans that one wonders if they ever leave Manhattan. And you should be disturbed by this, because there are still people who listen. Some of them even vote in Congress.

Even worse, millions more of them vote in presidential elections, and a majority of them just voted to give a second term to another effete, elitist, out-of-touch, metrosexual, Ivy League-credentialed ignoramus who thinks exactly the same way these moronic MSNBC clowns do.

AZCoyote on December 8, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Just curious. Its a nice round.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 7:12 PM

Okay, there are lots of nice rounds though.

I have completely rethought my take on firearms over the last few years.

Picked up a couple more bricks of .22.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:26 PM

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:26 PM

I have a model 722 Rem I like quite a bit, very accurate.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM

I would have sworn it was that chick.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 5:37 PM

…my boy is back!

KOOLAID2 on December 8, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Marlin, variation on 30-30. Most popular up North.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 6:59 PM

.
Okay, why are you interested?

Stick with the 30-30. Easier to scrounge ammo after the zombie apocalypse.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:02 PM

.
That, and the ’06, and the 308 wi … oops, I’m sorry ….. I mean 7.62 NATO

listens2glenn on December 8, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Forgetting myself here . . . . .
.
. . . . . HI Bmore !

listens2glenn on December 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM

I won’t save them. Just get rid of the varmint after he has culled the herd enough.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Save on ammo that way.

davidk on December 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM

I have a model 722 Rem I like quite a bit, very accurate.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Liking it, and being proficient, with it is most important.

That, and the ’06, and the 308 wi … oops, I’m sorry ….. I mean 7.62 NATO

listens2glenn on December 8, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Converting everything to popular calibers…and similar controls.

Save on ammo that way.

davidk on December 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Ammunition conservation will be an important thing.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:45 PM

In another 10 years science will discover that fossil fuels do not originate with decay but with geothermal activity. It seems very possible that these VERY pure forms of oil, where we have never found any evidence of organic matter, are manufactured where the Balrog live.

RutRoh on December 8, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Carbon tax?

That’s rich coming from a bunch of oxygen thieves.

ajacksonian on December 8, 2012 at 7:55 PM

RutRoh on December 8, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Good luck with that. That argument has been going on in geology for decades. Its every bit as vicious as the global warming war.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:55 PM

why our country is going down the drain

davidk on December 8, 2012 at 6:38 PM

When the teet dries up, he will be a predator among the elite libiots from the the subject video.

I won’t save them. Just get rid of the varmint after he has culled the herd enough.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM

But when it all goes to h he will be in the long line for generators at Home Depot saying “don’t you know who I am?”

slickwillie2001 on December 8, 2012 at 7:57 PM

In other words:

Hell people, we’ve got campaign contributors to backs-scratch. We can’t have the people running around getting good prices on energy! That might make people see just how damn inefficient and dishonest our green energy scam really is. Nip it in the bud.

hillbillyjim on December 8, 2012 at 8:01 PM

These type of liberals love control.

CW on December 8, 2012 at 8:01 PM

And notice that there is no mention of the poor, who are hardest hit by higher energy prices… ahhh… the Left… always wanting to cut the poor out on taxes so they can sock it to them with higher prices on energy… and medical care… food… ya gotta love the Left for their duplicity.

Oxygen thieves one and all.

ajacksonian on December 8, 2012 at 8:04 PM

fact:
According to the U.S. government, oil shale deposits in an area called the Green River Formation in the western United States are estimated to contain up to 3 trillion barrels of oil — three times more than the whole world has consumed in the past 100 years.

What WILL they do now? :)

golfmann on December 8, 2012 at 5:53 PM

That’s just too easy; make it all a national park.

Spotted owls, darter snails, wildflowers, etc. Where are your priorities?

slickwillie2001 on December 8, 2012 at 8:04 PM

ajacksonian on December 8, 2012 at 8:04 PM

It’s for the children, except it isn’t.

hillbillyjim on December 8, 2012 at 8:05 PM

listens2glenn on December 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Hello friend. ; )

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 8:06 PM

The pump prices should be posted as follows:

Press your advantage price:

Press Green (read:Progressive) $5.25 per gallon
Press Gold (read:initiative)

bettycooper on December 8, 2012 at 8:06 PM

This guy needs beat with a switch.

TX-96 on December 8, 2012 at 8:10 PM

The gas pump prices should be posted by ‘carbon choice’
For example:

Press your “advantage price”:

Press Green (read:progressive) $5.25 per gallon
Press Black (read:initiative) $3.23 per gallon

bettycooper on December 8, 2012 at 8:11 PM

Dan Dicker: You would want the prices to go up a lot because it would drive the next stage towards renewables, and make that at least cost-effective.

LOL. These idiots shouldn’t be allowed to abuse the term “cost-effective” like that. It’s torture … and we all know that these slugs claim to be against torture.

Lefties love to abuse the language and boast about what idiots they are. It’s amazing, really. Of course, we just had this nation re-elect and idiot who’s got the mathematical sophistication of a slow 8th grader, so I guess this is all par for the course.

Man … modern civilization has become so pathetic. The third world has won – without even trying (as the third world can’t really do anything, which is why they’re the third world). F–k me!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:11 PM

Picked up a couple more bricks of .22.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Hey Coz! Whacha you gonna do? Shoot a couple of felonious squirrels. .22s?? Come on. The only time 22 caliber should be mentioned in in conjunction with .22 magnum (used to be called the 22 extra long rifle). If you want to go .22, go .22 magnum. It has the punch of a .38 police special at inside ranges.

Old Country Boy on December 8, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Converting everything to popular calibers…and similar controls.

Ammunition conservation will be an important thing.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:45 PM

It’s going to be one of the smaller priorities if things get really dark.

Water, food, shelter, skills, and – critically – community, are going to be way higher up the list.

It is darkly humorous though – more people than ever are starting to realize that the way things are going will not end well. Who knows. Maybe Palin will save us all. Personally I suspect she ha a bug out igloo with a 1 Megawatt nuclear power plant buried 800 feet under the tundra.

CorporatePiggy on December 8, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Hey Coz! Whacha you gonna do? Shoot a couple of felonious squirrels. .22s?? Come on.

Old Country Boy on December 8, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Dinner

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 8:15 PM

Old Country Boy on December 8, 2012 at 8:13 PM

I like the 22LR. It’s “cost-effective” :)

That said, I wish Kel-Tec would actually make their double-stack 30 round 22 mag pistol available for actual sale, rather than just hold it out as a tease.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM

“Why, if we make food more expensive, then people won’t each as much, and they’ll be thinner and healthier!”

These type of people will not stop, ever, unless they are made to stop.

Saltyron on December 8, 2012 at 8:20 PM

That said, I wish Kel-Tec would actually make their double-stack 30 round 22 mag pistol available for actual sale, rather than just hold it out as a tease.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM

Oh they will put it into production and it will be on backorder, and if you can actually get one, it will fail.

/unhappy owner of a sub2k that has never worked.

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:22 PM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Yeah … it’s allegedly in production and backorder is almost 2 years long and people are paying way above retail to get them. I’ve heard the horror stories about Kel-Tec (there were already problems with the PMR-30) but the gun is just so cool. I’m amazed that no one else has bothered with making high capacity 22 pistols – mag or regular.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM

get a price on carbon, drive it up so we can promote renewables and efficiencies first and foremost.

So all of these vile and repugnant creatures sitting on the panel believe it’s necessary to impose a carbon tax. Triple (or more) the price for gas and home heating. How can someone in their right mind possibly think this way? How many people will be forced to choose between food or heat for their children? How many of our most aged citizens, living on a fixed income, will wind up freezing to death in their homes? How many people will have pennies of their paycheck left after they put gas in their car? Do these buffoons have no idea they are advocating for a death sentence for the poor?

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Yeah … it’s allegedly in production and backorder is almost 2 years long and people are paying way above retail to get them. I’ve heard the horror stories about Kel-Tec (there were already problems with the PMR-30) but the gun is just so cool. I’m amazed that no one else has bothered with making high capacity 22 pistols – mag or regular.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM

You talking about the PLR-22? I agree there is a dearth of high cap .22 pictols, which sucks because of all the reloading time. I picked up a Ruger 10/22 with the Tapco tactical stock and a bunch of BX-25 mags. LOVE LOVE LOVE it!

An interesting option, if you don’t have any compunction about owning a NAZI designed firearm is the .22 Sturmgewehr. Nice review of it here.

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:39 PM

I’m amazed that no one else has bothered with making high capacity 22 pistols – mag or regular.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM

Calico?

20, or so, years ago.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 8:44 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:39 PM

Excuse me for interrupting…but can I ask what you would recommend for a novice (me)? I want to tell Santa what I want.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 8:44 PM

You talking about the PLR-22?

No. This: PMR-30. A regular size pistol.

I agree there is a dearth of high cap .22 pictols, which sucks because of all the reloading time. I picked up a Ruger 10/22 with the Tapco tactical stock and a bunch of BX-25 mags. LOVE LOVE LOVE it!

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:39 PM

Fun stuff!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Excuse me for interrupting…but can I ask what you would recommend for a novice (me)? I want to tell Santa what I want.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 8:44 PM

You looking for 1. home defense, 2. conceal carry, or just a 3. happy fun time range gun?

1. Shotgun, 9mm pistol, or .40 pistol
2. 9mm pistol, .40 pistol, or .45 pistol
3. Definitely a .22. Rifle: mossburg or Ruger. Pistol: Ruger target, S&W MP22.

These are just my opinions.

If you are simply going to own one firearm(impossible!), I’d recommend a Glock in 9mm. They are relatively inexpensive, ubiquitous, uber reliable, and you can stow away 33 round mags Just in case.

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:52 PM

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 8:44 PM

I’m no expert so I’ll leave recommendations to others. I tend to buy cheap guns, myself, and don’t mind small calibers. One thing I would recommend against, however, is the Ruger LCP. The trigger pull is almost 40 feet long while the gun is only 3 inches. It’s a natural wonder that way, I guess. At least, the one I shot was.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:57 PM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Thank you so much…I’m going for options 1 and 2, and am making it a priority after the first of the year. I’ve always hated the idea of owning a weapon, but not any more.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 9:00 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:57 PM

Thank you for your thoughts. I don’t have anyone to really ask for advice, so everything is helpful.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 9:03 PM

One thing I would recommend against, however, is the Ruger LCP. The trigger pull is almost 40 feet long while the gun is only 3 inches. It’s a natural wonder that way, I guess. At least, the one I shot was.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 8:57 PM

I like it for its simplicity and reliability.

Tried it when I was looking for a replacement for my Colt .380 Government Model (not the Mustang). Looked at the Sig, S&W, and Walthers.

Ended up with the Walter PK380, better fit in my hand. But still thinking about that Ruger.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:04 PM

Thank you so much…I’m going for options 1 and 2, and am making it a priority after the first of the year. I’ve always hated the idea of owning a weapon, but not any more.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 9:00 PM

A few more things. Go to a gun shop that has a range. Be a noob. Handle a few weapons, and rent some. Take notes, write on the targets. Everybody is different and each gun has a different feel in the hand. The sight picture(what you see looking down the sights of the weapon) is subjective. There is no “Best” gun. Find one that feels right to you.

Youtube is also a great resource. There is a big gun enthusiast community there that makes hours and hours of review videos for just about any firearm.

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Thank you for your thoughts. I don’t have anyone to really ask for advice, so everything is helpful.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 9:03 PM

Gun store, usually not the chain sporting goods stores.

Some gun stores are a little full of themselves and not very friendly.

Most are very friendly, and helpful. Always looking for converts and future sales.

Try a gun show in your area. Same rules apply to the vendors there as with gun stores.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:10 PM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Okay, thanks again, that’s a big help. I’m hoping I might do well with learning. I’m pretty good at hitting the geese in the pond behind my house from about 40-50 feet (with a BB gun)…and I even got a woodpecker once from about 30 feet! lol.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 9:17 PM

I now fear these people more than I ever did the Soviets…and I really feared the Soviets.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 5:37 PM

These people are the ideological descendants of the Soviets. They hate Western Civilization, Christianity, the middle class. Us, in other words. Like insty’s oft-used quote, “they’ll turn us all into beggars ’cause they’re easier to please” in the name of justice or equality.

The left has used racism like Scientology tried to use psychiatric drugs.

Read Orwell’s Notes on Nationalism. Pay special attention to what he calls “negative nationalism”.

JimC on December 8, 2012 at 9:18 PM

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:10 PM

Thank you too Cozmo. I’m writing all this down…it all helps to point me in the right directions.

lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 9:20 PM

But still thinking about that Ruger.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:04 PM

You didn’t find the trigger pull very, very long? Maybe I just shot a dud. I liked the look and size of the gun but I could barely shoot it because of the trigger. Also, it was a bit small for my hand. I could only get a couple of fingers on the grip. Tiny for concealment anywhere but I had problems shooting it.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 9:25 PM

I’m late to the party, but I’m beginning to think that massive increases in energy costs for the poor and middle class are a feature, not a bug.

Think about it: When gas and heating oil become unaffordable for large sections of the country, the progs will just demand massive energy subsidies (along the lines of the existing LIHEAP) and corresponding tax increases on “the top (fill in the blank) percent” who are sitting in their comfortable mansions while the poor freeze to death.

So we’ll end up with either a massive expansion of government or riots which can be blamed on the selfish rich. Sounds like a win/win for the Left to me.

sadarj on December 8, 2012 at 9:26 PM

But there is a repeating pattern here of media spokesmodels who seem to be so out of touch with the lives, concerns and challenges facing regular Americans that one wonders if they ever leave Manhattan.

Ummmm…..

What is so hard to understand?

This is the public school educated person, primed for the final sham that is a liberal arts curriculum.

There should be no surprises here.

98ZJUSMC on December 8, 2012 at 9:28 PM

The trigger pull on the Ruger LCP is ridiculously long, notchy, and creepy. It isn’t a range-queen. It is a last measure of defense weapon, likely to be employed within 15 feet or less of the target. I actually like it, but would not use it as a primary defense weapon. It is fine to use as a ‘truck gun’ as you wouldn’t want to leave an expensive weapon in your car at any time.

I bought my mom one for her birthday, but now she wants a Sig 1911….lol!

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 9:37 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 8, 2012 at 9:25 PM

I ain’t usin’ it for target shooting. Quarter cock has always been my safety and have been carrying since before CHL was CHL. I don’t mind a long trigger pull on the first shot, and there have been pistols with longer first pulls. Size and ease of draw are more important. The Ruger can’t be beat there and it has an external hammer.

If I was still in a business where I was carrying large amounts of cash, that LCP would be my pocket gun.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:39 PM

These people are insane and they’re willing to kill millions in the name of their insanity.

darwin on December 8, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Yeah. You see, these are the people who had emotional trouble in high school and have decided to compensate instead of growing up and moving on.

The leftist agenda is perfect for these people. Social …..Revenge. Economic …Revenge.

Consequence, while inevitable, becomes inconsequential.

Insanity.

98ZJUSMC on December 8, 2012 at 9:39 PM

but now she wants a Sig 1911….lol!

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 9:37 PM

A fine choice. They make many nice variations.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 9:39 PM

A fine choice. They make many nice variations.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 9:39 PM

What is the deal with Sigs these days?

I never caught the Glock craze and now it seems they have gone over to Sig.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:45 PM

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Don’t you guys reload?

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Is that Rachel Maddow’s girlfriend?

disa on December 8, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Don’t you guys reload?

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 10:07 PM

I still have a 3-stage packed away…somewhere. Why?

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 10:20 PM

He’s rhetorically proximate to a Nancy-boy.

Chickyraptor on December 8, 2012 at 10:27 PM

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 9:45 PM

I know, I’ve noticed it too. They are getting a little to fashion conscience for my taste. They still make fine products however. Just getting a little to hip perhaps.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 10:45 PM

…. Why?
cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 10:20 PM

All that silly talk about conserving ammo.

;-)

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 10:47 PM

The most tragic aspect of this story…. That the wrong Jerry Brown died…

SWalker on December 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Being in CA, when I heard Jerry Brown, I thought WTH was he smokin with Linda again…then I realized the tradegy.

I’ll let you come to you own conclusion on that.

ccrosby on December 8, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Anybody as full of “it” as Chris Hayes must know how to use the “three seashells” from Demolition Man.

J_Crater on December 8, 2012 at 10:54 PM

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 10:47 PM

Its a hoarding thing when it comes to ammo.

Other than that, the noise and flash of many shots will attract attention and give away your position.

And why blast that rabbit with a 30-06 or 12 gauge when a .22 will take the critter down just as well and not spoil the meat.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 10:56 PM

.22 is a fine caliber.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 10:57 PM

I know, I’ve noticed it too. They are getting a little to fashion conscience for my taste. They still make fine products however. Just getting a little to hip perhaps.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 10:45 PM

ROFL Glock and Sig getting too hip?

That is like saying Levi’s and Polo are going to be out of style…

Glock=firearm Get over it. The Germans distilled it. Sig=relentless pursuit of excellence.

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 11:01 PM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 11:01 PM

No doubt Sig is a fine product. My opinion branching off to a fashion accessory, not necessary.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 11:03 PM

Gee, thanks for that little lesson, Coz!
And unfortunately, I guess there is no way to get around that.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:06 PM

For the people at the top–sure, it’s about money and control. However, I have liberal acquaintances who would gain absolutely nothing from the insanely high cost of living that would result from these policies but who are absolutely convinced by the kinds of nonsensical arguments presented here. These liberals bash Republicans nonstop for their heartlessness toward the poor–and then in the same breath make sweeping statements about how they can’t wait for gas to hit $8 a gallon–for the environment, of course.

To me, that’s the truly scary part–the inability of the average liberal to relate cause and effect (seemingly, in any area of life). They have a cult-like dedication to their own self-defined righteousness, and that righteousness is only earned by mindlessly promoting the right concepts of equality and fairness and saving the planet. They are beyond logic. They are empty puppet-people–which would almost make them pitiable if they weren’t so hostile and hateful.

butterflies and puppies on December 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM

22 is a fine caliber.

Bmore on December 8, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Hi Bmore, I have .357 Magnum Luger that my Dad gave me the Christmas before he passed.

That sucker is one heck of a firearm, and I know my Dad is protecting me everyday because of it.

And you know what cracks me up, some people will read this and think “Oh my, what a terrible legacy”.

Not to me…

ccrosby on December 8, 2012 at 11:14 PM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 11:01 PM

That’s why we all have Lugers while John Browning, Richard Gatling, Samuel Colt and Eugene Stoner have been forgotten.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 11:15 PM

…some people will read this and think “Oh my, what a terrible legacy”.

ccrosby on December 8, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Those people don’t count. And after the zombie apocalypse, they won’t exist.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 11:18 PM

That’s why we all have Lugers while John Browning, Richard Gatling, Samuel Colt and Eugene Stoner have been forgotten.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 11:15 PM

:-)

ccrosby on December 8, 2012 at 11:22 PM

.357 Magnum Luger

Wow! Must be worth millions.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:31 PM

.357 Magnum Luger

Wow! Must be worth millions.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:31 PM

Wow! You must really be proud of yourself!

If that’s all it takes anyway…

ccrosby on December 8, 2012 at 11:41 PM

Typo?
Or ignorance?

There is no such thing as a .357 Magnum Luger.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:44 PM

There is no such thing as a .357 Magnum Luger.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:44 PM

No, but some people call them .357′s. The name can catch for people who aren’t really into firearms.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Yeah, Right.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Yeah, Right.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Whatever. I’ve heard plenty of people who should know better, call a Nambu a Luger.

cozmo on December 8, 2012 at 11:53 PM

An interesting option, if you don’t have any compunction about owning a NAZI designed firearm is the .22 Sturmgewehr. Nice review of it here.

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:39 PM

Nazi Schmazi… you pull the trigger and it goes bang.

A gun is a gun. So long as it doesn’t have a swastika emblazoned on it then I’m fine so long as it goes bang and it doesn’t blow up in my face.

Chaz706 on December 8, 2012 at 11:58 PM

On-topic post: If “renewables” are increased and the price of energy skyrockets, it will certainly make firearms, and everything else that relied on fuel for production or shipping, more expensive.
 
Say, that leads into a response to
 

…but can I ask what you would recommend for a novice (me)? I want to tell Santa what I want.
 
lynncgb on December 8, 2012 at 8:44 PM

 
These come up for sale every so often.:
 
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1Sig2269&name=Sig+Sauer+P226+9mm+Pistol&groupid=212
 
Sometimes they’re advertised, and sometimes they just show up at gun shows or shops. Shotgun News would likely have a bunch of ads for them when a new batch is available.
 
I’ve got I had a couple (I keep forgetting I lawfully sold everything to legal buyers and, sadly, lost all my receipts in a tragic mishap above Lake Norman) and they really are great shooters, not to mention offering a very fair entry price into the world of utilitarian Sigs. You can call around to local pawnshops (and some locksmiths) to find out what they would charge to have it shipped and sold through their store. I’ve got a local fellow who does a $14 flat rate, but I’d expect $20+ with someone you’ve never dealt with before.
 
And fwiw, I’ve probably had more reliable dinners with my .22 than I have with any other caliber.

rogerb on December 9, 2012 at 12:01 AM

A gun is a gun.

Chaz706 on December 8, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Yeah! What he said.

cozmo on December 9, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Obviously we need a 50% tax on energy used by all news stations.

That oughta shut these morons up.

MelonCollie on December 9, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Here is the site I use to check oil and gas prices.

Jocundus on December 9, 2012 at 12:21 AM

tom daschle concerned on December 8, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Walking the dog: S&W .38 Chief Special, bobbed hammer
Home defense: FN p-90, 50 rounds 5.7×28, no reloading required.
Fun: Beretta PX-90 Storm 9mm

To use an auto for defense, you must practice with it often. A revolver is plug and play. No thinking required, just point and shoot.

Jocundus on December 9, 2012 at 12:44 AM

Yeah, Right.

LegendHasIt on December 8, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Pompous b*tch.

CW on December 9, 2012 at 12:50 AM

CW on December 9, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Classy as always. Thank you for your input.

LegendHasIt on December 9, 2012 at 1:01 AM

Is there a country where the government doesn’t think it needs to rule the world? I gotta find one and go there.

The Rogue Tomato on December 9, 2012 at 1:06 AM

Still looks like that chick? from the same station. Must be the mandatory look over there.

Bmore on December 9, 2012 at 1:53 AM

Gots to be a chick.

Bmore on December 9, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Chick, right?

Bmore on December 9, 2012 at 2:11 AM

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