Gergen: Democrats would rather humiliate GOP than solve fiscal cliff

posted at 8:51 am on December 4, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Via Eliana Johnson at NRO, David Gergen comes to the same conclusion that most of us did after the election — that Barack Obama and the Democrats aren’t really interested in solving the massive number of problems in the fiscal cliff coming in less than four weeks.  Their priority is to inflict as much damage on House Republicans as possible, and if that inflicts damage on America, well, you gotta break a few eggs to make omelettes, too.

But since this election, there’s been — I think it’s the Democrats are the ones who are really trying to rub it in and almost humiliate the Republicans, and that’s not going to get to a bargain.  Again, I think it has to be win-win. … You hear among some Democrats right now, and it’s disturbing, that maybe we ought to just take it over the cliff, that’ll, we’ll score political points against the Republicans, that will force their hands in the new year.  That is a very, very, dangerous risk.

Is it?  Only if the media reports on it.  So far, though, the media seems more focused on Republicans and their supposed intransigence, even though John Boehner’s opening offer put the supposed “grand bargain” of August 2011 back on the table — and Obama demanded twice as much revenue with half the cuts in some gauzy point in the future.  At least for now, the media is making brinksmanship a relatively risk-free strategy while Obama campaigns rather than negotiates in good faith.


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Either walk away or vote present or both…just do it…

PatriotRider on December 4, 2012 at 8:55 AM

At least for now, the media is making brinksmanship a relatively risk-free strategy while Obama campaigns rather than negotiates in good faith.

LOL! They have been doing that since 2008!

Mord on December 4, 2012 at 8:55 AM

No Schidt, Sherlock. Even as the Gutless Old Party is purging conservatives from House committees in order to prepare to be the permanent minority party, the Rats are preparing to become, for the third time, the only party.

Steve Eggleston on December 4, 2012 at 8:56 AM

Why isn’t Obama listening to the recommendations of the Simpson-Bowles panel, which he convened specifically to address these problems?

Oh, that’s right.

He isn’t actually interested in solving the problem.

Good Lt on December 4, 2012 at 8:56 AM

Who trusts this Gergen twit ?

Lucano on December 4, 2012 at 8:56 AM

Fine… humiliate the GOP. Just cut spending.

Salted Meats on December 4, 2012 at 8:57 AM

Oh, and the next Obama counter-offer – $2.2 trillion in new taxes on the top 5%, $400 billion in new spending.

Steve Eggleston on December 4, 2012 at 8:57 AM

Half of Obama voters thing Republicans run the Senate if you asked them… Even if they had another super majority, dumb voters who put these people in charge would still blame Republicans.

Look at Detroit and Baltimore… two cities that are sinking, and they STILL BLAME REPUBLICANS…

Washington Fancy on December 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Ya think?

I really despise the lsm….

cmsinaz on December 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Charles Krauthammer made the same point on Fox News.

This is SOP for Obama. He does not just defeat an opponent, he tries to humiliate an opponent to the point where Obama does not have to worry about the opponent rising again. In the case of the Clintons, Obama cleverly got them inside the tent and muzzled both of them, since the Clintons were too influential in the DNC to be ground into the dust.

Given the recent House elections, based on the 2010 census reapportionment, the Dems know it is unlikely they’ll take back the House any time soon. So they need to neuter it.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 8:59 AM

ahhhh…. the perfection of good cop / bad cop

rest assured… GUBRMINT… will win

the theft will continue..

roflmmfao

donabernathy on December 4, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Prediction: dems will continue to refuse anything. Boner and the others will get progressively more nervous, and continue upping the ante, until they finally give the dems pretty much what they want, although it’ll have the GOP signature on it. Lose-lose for us. The Stupid Party all right.

bofh on December 4, 2012 at 8:59 AM

The media is our enemy and we just accept it?!

We need to fight!

Why are we just accepting this and NO ONE is even talking about the root of our problem?
If more people knew about Fast and Furious and Bengazi or many other scandals we would have a new president now.

Let’s at least start to fight the real problems instead of whinning.

We can start a thread or permanent topic at this site.

GardenGnome on December 4, 2012 at 9:00 AM

You hear among some Democrats right now, and it’s disturbing, that maybe we ought to just take it over the cliff, that’ll, we’ll score political points

Better late than never Gergen, but the Democrats/MSM have been doing this brazenly for several years.

Democrats want to go over the cliff for political advantage and they don’t care what it’ll do to anyone.

forest on December 4, 2012 at 9:01 AM

Don’t waste a crisi – the guiding principle of the progressives!

Pardonme on December 4, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Just walk away. Unless and until the rat-eared bastard is willing to sit in the same room as Mr. Boehner nothing will be accomplished. Let the filthy America-hating Kenyan go around tweeting insults about the GOP but don’t even attempt to negotiate with this son of a liberal whore and Kenyan communist.

Happy Nomad on December 4, 2012 at 9:04 AM

Well DUH!

gophergirl on December 4, 2012 at 9:05 AM

If the Dems are intent on going over the cliff, the GOP needs to protect themselves from the political fallout. The only way to do that as far as I can see is to simply pass an extension in the House of the Bush tax cuts for 98% of Americans and then dare Harry Reid to bury that bill in the Senate. Keep passing it every day if necessary, but get it on the record that it’s the Dems who are holding the middle class hostage(to use their new favorite phrase). That way when the inevitable demagoguery comes the Republicans’ way after the new year, they can simply throw it back in the Democrats’ faces.

Doughboy on December 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

This has never been about a grand bargin or about economic relaity. this is about marxist revolution by 2014. The last defense for freedom is the house of represnetatives and the GOP leadership GOd help us. The fiscal cliff will destory the last of the lower middle class that is Marxism striaght up. Destroy the middle class and you have your marxism revolution.

Obama is painting the GOP as the party of the protectors of the welathy aghainst the poor and lower middle class. he understands like Marx did that to do away with the old order you must destory the hopes and dreams of the lower middle class and their ability to be free and support themselves. So that they turn to government for their bread and cheese.

Anyone that understands a marxist understands what is going on here.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

thats what we need MORE gergen/.

in more important news Sarah calls yomama a socialist.

renalin on December 4, 2012 at 9:07 AM

while Obama campaigns rather than negotiates in good faith

…wasn’t it a month ago that JugEars promised no more campaigning?

KOOLAID2 on December 4, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Doughboy on December 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Yeap. The GOP no matter what else happens must be seen as the protectors of the middle class and lower middle class and not the protectors of the wealthy if they want to keep the house in 2014.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:09 AM

in more important news Sarah calls yomama a socialist.

renalin on December 4, 2012 at 9:07 AM

love that woman the only leader that fights for us.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:10 AM

No compromise. Just go over the cliff. Democrats always blather about how Clinton tax rates for the rich didnt hurt the economy in the 90ies. Thus the same argument can be made for the other brackets. Let them eat their words. They made “Bush tax cuts” into a pejoraive term, so lets get rid of them entirely. Clinton tax rates for everybody!

Valkyriepundit on December 4, 2012 at 9:13 AM

…wasn’t it a month ago that JugEars promised no more campaigning?

KOOLAID2 on December 4, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Actually, I recall him saying right before the election that he would continue to campaign if he won another term. It beats actually working I suppose.

Doughboy on December 4, 2012 at 9:15 AM

Let sequestration happen.

Let the tax cuts expire.

Let the debt hit the ceiling, and don’t raise it.

Instant balanced budget, and all it requires of the House Republicans is their inaction..

Then, you can start negotiating…

JohnGalt23 on December 4, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Daily we ask our military to go into harms way to protect us and we let these &^@*%#@! cheese heads in DC argue and scrap like kindergarteners? These boob heads are a disgrace. It’s time we demand they start at least trying to do what’s best for the country instead of protecting their jobs. Yech!

Herb on December 4, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Obama and the Dems may think that if we go over the cliff that there will be two bad years, and then the Dems take back the House and usher in utopia in time for 2016. They’d wreck the economy and countless lives just to be in complete power.

On the other hand, there is the Orwellian explanation:

The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

Orwell, 1984.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Between this and the taxes associated with Obamacare, we’re liable to be paying a 60% tax rate.

kingsjester on December 4, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Either walk away or vote present or both…just do it…

PatriotRider on December 4, 2012 at 8:55 AM

Yep. Let’s get this over with. It will be painful but better now than later when my kids will have to deal with it and it will be worse.

In the meantime, we’ve slashed our spending and are doing our best to prepare. Hope everyone else is also paring back and paying down debt as much as they can.

batter on December 4, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Well Gergen finally crawled out of the Harvard cesspool to make this stunning revelation! Go away, David!

tomshup on December 4, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Go off the cliff, then pass House ethics rules forbidding House members from employing people who come from large media companies for five years from the time they leave said media company.

Want to neuter the liberal press? Take away about half the jobs liberal Democrats can offer to journalists. Maybe after journ0lists stop seeing covering the political beat as an audition to work in their local liberal Congressman’s office, they will be forced to be more fair.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Let the debt hit the ceiling, and don’t raise it.

Instant balanced budget, and all it requires of the House Republicans is their inaction..

JohnGalt23 on December 4, 2012 at 9:17 AM

It’s nothing a royal decree, ahem, I mean an Executive Order, cannot fix.

Archivarix on December 4, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Their priority is to inflict as much damage on House Republicans as possible, and if that inflicts damage on America, well, you gotta break a few eggs to make omelettes, too.

In 1969, Obummer’s butt buddy Bill Ayers estimated the Weathermen would have to eliminate 25 million people in their reeducation centers.

Obummer and a good percentage of his lefty base still hold that sentiment.

bloviator on December 4, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Well Gergen finally crawled out of the Harvard cesspool to make this stunning revelation! Go away, David!

tomshup on December 4, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Maybe because he realizes that going over the cliff won’t spare him of his fellow Democrats in the press. Even members of the media are gonna have to occasionally set aside their ideology once their lives are negatively impacted by this administration and their allies in Congress.

Doughboy on December 4, 2012 at 9:24 AM

Thanks for your opinion, Gergen. I was wondering were you went after you ruined U.S. News and World Report.

trl on December 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Obama sends his Treasury Secretary to negotiate a deal while he plans a vacation. Boehner must stop responding to Obama’s press statements. Stop talking and pass a proposal to be sent to the Senate. Since the Republicans are willing to cave on tax increases on high earners tell the public this is included in the bill. If the legislation contains items derived from previous bipartisan agreements (Simpson-Bowles APPOINTED BY THE PRESIDENT) highlight that as well. Stop getting into these oratorical fights with Obama in the press. Pass a fricken proposal and pass it on to the Senate. Make them act. Tell the public that the House is not negotiating with the President until the Senate passes or votes down the bill. Tell the public that the House Republicans were elected by their constituency to do responsible work and they have compromised but the election did not turn the government over to a supermajority of Democrats.

DaveDief on December 4, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Take this advice.

Wigglesworth on December 4, 2012 at 9:28 AM

We can’t do anything at all about the way the media covers this. It will be a win for Obama if any agreement is reached and the GOP’s fault if one is not, that is a given, it is etched in stone and immutable. Get over it.

But ultimately, Obama owns the economy. Sooner or later even the low-information voters will wake up to realize that Bush has been gone a long, long, time and none of Obama’s promises have come close to being kept.

Adjoran on December 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

Orwell, 1984.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:18 AM

and the only way to obtain that type of power is to destory those that stand in your way to absolute power. I.e the middle class. I do find it interesting that this “fiscal cliff” will impact the middle class the most. We hear about the taxes on the rich but this cliff will turn many middl class people just hanging on into wards of the state something that isn’t talked about but the ultimate goal of marxism. destruction of the middle class.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM

Sounds about right. Not sure why any of you are surprised or indignant. This has been the Republican strategy towards him for the last four years. Try to destroy, demonize, and deligitimize. It started from before he was even sworn in.

But he won the second time around and his party gained seats in both houses, won every single battle state, and not to mention made headway in many states for liberal projects and ideals. There were no great victories at al for the Republicans. The strategy against him didn’t work.

I wouldn’t expect sympathy.

Genuine on December 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM

Having people like Gergen going on places like CNN saying the Democrats are unreasonable and “disturbing” is exactly what we need.

Hopefully some other ‘moderate’ milksop types will be saying the same thing on the Today Show and GMA etc.

forest on December 4, 2012 at 9:33 AM

But ultimately, Obama owns the economy. Sooner or later even the low-information voters will wake up to realize that Bush has been gone a long, long, time and none of Obama’s promises have come close to being kept.

Adjoran on December 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

Unfortunately, those low information voters are also likely to be dependent on the government for some means, and will keep voting Dem to keep the benefits coming.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM

We can’t do anything at all about the way the media covers this. But ultimately, Adjoran on December 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

I am so tired of hearing this. Of course we can do something about howe the media covers by the words the GOp leadership uses and the tactics they employ.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:35 AM

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM

The next target will be middle class wealth in the 401ks and IRAs. It will take time, and the Dems might not get it, but that’s where the wealth now is.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:35 AM

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

Orwell, 1984.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:18 AM

That sounds just like Morsi in Egypt. Spooky.

Night Owl on December 4, 2012 at 9:37 AM

and the only way to obtain that type of power is to destory those that stand in your way to absolute power. I.e the middle class. I do find it interesting that this “fiscal cliff” will impact the middle class the most. We hear about the taxes on the rich but this cliff will turn many middl class people just hanging on into wards of the state something that isn’t talked about but the ultimate goal of marxism. destruction of the middle class.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM

It is the moral vanity of the middle class more than the fecklessness of the lower classes that has brought us to this point. And the only cure for vanity is to find in the name of your vanity how you have disfigured yourself.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

intransigence is the new racism, it only exists in Dem heads

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Mark your calendar; for once I agree with Gergen.

Democrats have absolutely no interest in solving this crisis responsibly. Their motives are purely political an intended to regain control of the House and inflict maximum damage to the Republican Party.

There is no good faith negotiation. The President has not provided any spending cuts that would make a material difference. He was on the golf course again this weekend with Democrat Party stalwarts and nowhere near any negotiations.

The President’s answer? “tax the rich” which provides miniscule benefits and maximum economic damage.

His “hope” is that we go over the cliff and Republicans get blamed for what will be clear economic damage. A fawning press will once again help cover his behind as we sink down the financial drain.

The latest Republican offer? Has anyone read a responsible review in the press? Anyone?

Get use to it America- this is what you voted for.

Marcus Traianus on December 4, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Without a demon, liberals can’t assume the role of God and Savior.

I hope the Pubs just walk away from the Dems, and let the libs have at it.

Liam on December 4, 2012 at 9:41 AM

The Democrat Party is the “God” of too many Democrat politicians.

listens2glenn on December 4, 2012 at 9:45 AM

I wouldn’t expect sympathy.

Genuine on December 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM

No one is asking for sympathy. You are very selective in your list of great leftist wins. We have 30 Republican Governors and many State Houses. We have the House, who holds the purse strings, and I have a feeling your little tyrant is not going to have quite as easy a second term as was his first.

Night Owl on December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Unfortunately, those low information voters are also likely to be dependent on the government for some means, and will keep voting Dem to keep the benefits coming.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM


has the government under Bush and his father did anything to ensure those low information voters are less dependent on government? Did they use the power of the government to protect their jobs or ship them overseas. did they make policy to promote capitalism or crony capitalism? how does K street make the lower classes less dependent on government? Did Bush strengthen Churches or weaken them with his faith based programs? Did the take ove rof schools in no child left behind strengthen or weaken the lower classes ability to raise their children independent of federal government wishes? Did the medicare part D help or hurt the cause of freedom and strenghten or weaken the need for strong families helping each other? Did the ban on drug imports help or hurt those dependent on government. Has the open borders practiced under Bush help o0r hurt the cause for less dependence on the government as wages are kept artifically low with a mass influx of the working poor.

The opinion makers on the conservative side are doing the conservative cause a great disserve by talking about Santa clause and blaming the problems on the lower middle class who have been forced by GOP and DEm programs since Bush the first into the “caring arms” of the federal government. Has TSA grown oe reduced our freedoms? Has the patriot act kept us save or made us sheep with a strong shepard guarding the flock?

The problem is not the low information voter nor the lower classes. The problem is crony capitalism, federal power grabs and the death of federalism and local control among others. And sadly the GOP was is and continues to promote policies that will do nothing to change the accelration of more and more people becoming wards of the state and the dems are happy to convert this people into life long dem voters.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

The country is lost. We have people elected to run the country looking at trillions in debt and haggling over how much more we should SPEND.

When you’re that much under water, there shouldn’t be any new spending. I don’t care if you’re a country, state, city or family of four, the same rules apply.

I don’t blame the socialist democrats. Thats what they do. But the worthless Republicans are supposed to be or should be the country’s defense against financial ruin. But the current crew we have are more interested in being liked by liberals than doing what’s right for the country.

Alabama Infidel on December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

The American people stood up on November 6, 2012 and declared that Chicago garbage best represented them.

Welcome to America, post November 6.

MNHawk on December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

I am so tired of hearing this. Of course we can do something about howe the media covers by the words the GOp leadership uses and the tactics they employ.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Words and tactics are infinitely distortable by a media class trying to engineer themselves their next “gig” in some Congressman’s office. Use our control of the House to deny them this “soft landing” through ethics rules that even Democrat House members must obey.

What if Hacky Hackerston at the Austin American-Statesman can’t end up in Lloyd Doggett’s media operation, and the Senators are too Republican for him? If he wants a job in politics so badly, he can run for office, sling hash for five years before approaching Doggett again, or compete with most of the rest of the country for someone in the Senate or White House, or a temp spot with MoveOn come the next election. In short, Mister Hackerston is most likely going to have to give up his political dreams, and report the damn news.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 9:48 AM

So Gergen’s chronically foggy and muddled head cleared up for a moment and in a temporary episode of lucidity he start seeing and thinking clearly. It won’t last. He’s too committed to appeasing and pleasing his Lefty friends. His social life and livelihood depend on it.

Dear Leader doesn’t care about the economic health of his historically capitalist country if it helps him destroy that economic system and replace it with his own version of fascist socialism. His version of US history sees the country an historic oppressor and exploiter. His interpretation if US history is basically the same as Howard Zinn’s and Oliver Stone’s.

The only thing he cares about is avoiding too much blame and responsibility for the economic disasters — you’ve got to break a few eggs, and so on and so forth. If he can muddy the water and get at least 50.01% of the population to blame the GOP he can destroy the GOP for good, expediting unrestrained government takeovers of the economy and the nation’s wealth. That’s his goal.

This is Chicago style politics, wherein the highest priority is to establish virtual one party rule and control. Then the Party can easily do whatever it wants, having only to deal with occasional internal opposition, whining, and demands all of which are appeased through payoffs using taxpayer dollars and unrestrained borrowing.

farsighted on December 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM

sure the Dems are stoopid as dirt A holes…but so are the Pubs

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Democrats humiliating the GOP?

At least that might provide some variety.

I’m bored with the GOP humiliating themselves . . .

RedPepper on December 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM

The problem is not the low information voter nor the lower classes. The problem is crony capitalism, federal power grabs and the death of federalism and local control among others. And sadly the GOP was is and continues to promote policies that will do nothing to change the accelration of more and more people becoming wards of the state and the dems are happy to convert this people into life long dem voters.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Crony cpaitalism is indeed as much a problem as the government dependent voters, because crony capitalism itself makes certain companies dependent on the government to exist. (solar power for instance.)

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Ed,

People will fugure it out when their taxes go up or they lose their jobs. Obama might actually feel some heat himself eventually.

Terrye on December 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM

It is the moral vanity of the middle class more than the fecklessness of the lower classes that has brought us to this point. And the only cure for vanity is to find in the name of your vanity how you have disfigured yourself.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

ROFL. without the middle class you have the poor and the rich the poor outnumber the rich and the rich are easily destroyed. marx knew this. seems many don’t

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Democrats would rather humiliate GOP than solve fiscal cliff

Epiphany for David Rodham Gergen.

petefrt on December 4, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Ed,

People will fugure it out when their taxes go up or they lose their jobs. Obama might actually feel some heat himself eventually.

Terrye on December 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM

quick question when they lose their jobs and their taxes go up and they are unable to support themselves who are they more likely to vote for the GOP who cares about the wealthy enough to stop all tax cuts to ensure their wealthy friends get their cuts or the dem party who “cares about you” Obama wants that outcome he wants people to lose their jobs it just means more dem voters. Maybe next time the GOP will put up a rich CEO who can be painted to have outsourced jobs as the nominee to further make Obama’s case.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM

Lordy look at all the impotent ‘bagger froth.

It is the moral vanity of the middle class more than the fecklessness of the lower classes that has brought us to this point. And the only cure for vanity is to find in the name of your vanity how you have disfigured yourself.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

That is so deep and so…stupid? Hard to come up with a more elegant word.

This is Chicago style politics, wherein the highest priority is to establish virtual one party rule and control. Then the Party can easily do whatever it wants, having only to deal with occasional internal opposition, whining, and demands all of which are appeased through payoffs using taxpayer dollars and unrestrained borrowing.

farsighted on December 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Pretty sure that was what Rove had in mind too moron.

Unfortunately, those low information voters are also likely to be dependent on the government for some means, and will keep voting Dem to keep the benefits coming.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM

This cold comfort you 47 precenters have wrapped around yourselves is garbage. White ass red staters get the most federal money-after their ceo masters.

Do any of you idiots realize that the entire tech sector-the biggest companies in the world-Google Apple Microsoft are nearly all progressives. The engine of the new economy disagrees with you ‘baggers on very single point. That’s the biggest reason your party is dead. Young rich people think you are subhuman-and they are right.

tommyhawk on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Gergen: Democrats would rather humiliate GOP than solve fiscal cliff

humiliate the gop then solve it.

sesquipedalian on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

ROFL. without the middle class you have the poor and the rich the poor outnumber the rich and the rich are easily destroyed. marx knew this. seems many don’t

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM

The only way to get a critical mass of the middle class to fight to save themselves is to show them what they have become in pursuit of their moral vanity.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM

I agree on most of that

of course you could have been more succinct and said “people are dumb”

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Crony cpaitalism is indeed as much a problem as the government dependent voters, because crony capitalism itself makes certain companies dependent on the government to exist. (solar power for instance.)

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM

yes it does that but the real problem with crony capitalsim is it makes people who aren’t “connect” have a warp sense of what capitalism is and thorws those people into the waiting arms fo the marxist/socialist. Crony capitalism isn’t capitalism it is feudalism practiced in modern times. It destorys freedom it destorys the middle class it destroys the main mechanism of capitalism which is the allocation of capital. It stops the riches to rags cycle that cpaitalism needs to rebirth itself and make the “new” rich. It allows idiots to retain their wealth and power long after their ideas have proven to be wrong and outdated. And it keeps those in power who should not be in power. K street should be burned down to the ground the earth should be salted and nothing should be allowed to grow on that land for 1000 years to provide a testament to the one thing that can and will destory freedom.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:03 AM

The only way to get a critical mass of the middle class to fight to save themselves is to show them what they have become in pursuit of their moral vanity.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

not true. Just take a look at the Reagan campaign.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:05 AM

agree on most of that

of course you could have been more succinct and said “people are dumb”

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

but that asks the question why are they “dumb” The policies of the last 30 years are the reason we have greater numbers of dumb people. today’s high school are teaching what grade school and middle schools taught 30 years ago. Today’s colleges are about the level of a high school 30 years ago.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:07 AM

People will fugure it out when their taxes go up or they lose their jobs. Obama might actually feel some heat himself eventually.

Terrye on December 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Comrade Chairman Obama is betting he won’t.

However, if there are enough functioning brain cells left in the electorate maybe a significant number of voters will see that this cannot be blamed entirely on the GOP.

Dear Leader’s irrational Ahab-like obsession with taxing the “wealthy” by raising rates and only by raising rates and his willingness to go over the cliff if he doesn’t get exactly what he wants may resonate with enough people to mitigate his anticipated glorious and great political victory. The odds may be on his side, but not by much. Over 60 million voters rejected him.

farsighted on December 4, 2012 at 10:07 AM

It’s nothing a royal decree, ahem, I mean an Executive Order, cannot fix.

Archivarix on December 4, 2012 at 9:22 AM

I’d like to see him try to seize the keys to the Treasury. That type of power grab is the type of thing that leads to the type of thing that we can’t discuss here…

JohnGalt23 on December 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM

The next target will be middle class wealth in the 401ks and IRAs. It will take time, and the Dems might not get it, but that’s where the wealth now is.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:35 AM

most likely but if the dems win 2014 it will take about a month to take it.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Of course. All they want is POWER. They could care less about the country. They don’t like it anyway. They’re pigs as far as I am concerned. The quicker conservatives realize this the better.

Hummer53 on December 4, 2012 at 10:11 AM

This cold comfort you 47 precenters…you idiots… you ‘baggers … you are subhuman

tommyhawk on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Troll.

farsighted on December 4, 2012 at 10:13 AM

We can’t do anything at all about the way the media covers this. But ultimately, Adjoran on December 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

I am so tired of hearing this. Of course we can do something about howe the media covers by the words the GOp leadership uses and the tactics they employ.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Ditto… I concur.

Isn’t it amazing how the right is always complaining about the incestuous relationship between the MSM and Democrats and how they employ talking points BUT then proceed to make those talking points the accepted conventional wisdom™?

TheRightMan on December 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Today’s colleges are about the level of a high school 30 years ago.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:07 AM

I know. They tried teaching me basic Algebra, I said “uhhhm, I’m on advanced Calculus.”

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM

So this pasty-faced pismire actually said something of value, however obvious?

rrpjr on December 4, 2012 at 10:15 AM

No Schidt, Sherlock. Even as the Gutless Old Party is purging conservatives from House committees in order to prepare to be the permanent minority party, the Rats are preparing to become, for the third time, the only party.

Steve Eggleston on December 4, 2012 at 8:56 AM

There is nothing called permanent in American politics and there will never be…

mnjg on December 4, 2012 at 10:19 AM

The GOP is suffering not because America has rejected conservatism but because the GOP failed to become the vehicle of conservatism.

We allowed moderate and “idea-less” wimps like Boehner, McConnell, and Romney to become the face of the party. We crucified leaders that could have matched and totally destroyed the current extremely liberal Democrat Party.

Is it any surprise that we have now become like a rudderless ship without a captain.

My recommendation? First FIRE all thos inept leaders and ENSURE that moderates never come anywhere near leadership AGAIN and the GOP will rise again and easily win both 2014 and 2016.

TheRightMan on December 4, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Lordy look at all the impotent ‘bagger froth.

Lordy, look at the stupid kid who is only waking up now, after a night filming his girlfriend running a train.

It is the moral vanity of the middle class more than the fecklessness of the lower classes that has brought us to this point. And the only cure for vanity is to find in the name of your vanity how you have disfigured yourself.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

That is so deep and so…stupid? Hard to come up with a more elegant word.

Which means you lack the philosophical wherewithal, as well as the wit to understand. The soul of Leftism, historically driven by bourgeois “Steppenwolves,” not by the allegedly oppressed masses, runs on the moral vanity of the well-to-do. Vanity caused women in Elizabethan times to put dried lead on their faces, which damaged their skin even further.

This is Chicago style politics, wherein the highest priority is to establish virtual one party rule and control. Then the Party can easily do whatever it wants, having only to deal with occasional internal opposition, whining, and demands all of which are appeased through payoffs using taxpayer dollars and unrestrained borrowing.

farsighted on December 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Pretty sure that was what Rove had in mind too moron.

Unfortunately, those low information voters are also likely to be dependent on the government for some means, and will keep voting Dem to keep the benefits coming.

Wethal on December 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM

This cold comfort you 47 precenters have wrapped around yourselves is garbage. White ass red staters get the most federal money-after their ceo masters.

Blue states are mostly dominated politically, population-wise, and IN LAND AREA by their large metropolitan areas. State governments can push a lot of costs and a lot of federal money-begging to the cities in Blue states, which conveniently leaves it off the books for snobby liberals like you. For example: Blue states have much less of a percentage of their federal highways in need of repair going between Bugtussle and Bumblescram. They leave the highway funds begging to Megalopolis and Suburbia.

Do any of you idiots realize that the entire tech sector-the biggest companies in the world-Google Apple Microsoft are nearly all progressives. The engine of the new economy disagrees with you ‘baggers on very single point. That’s the biggest reason your party is dead. Young rich people think you are subhuman-and they are right.

tommyhawk on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

They are “progressive” because of the Silicon Valley tech sector’s origins in the Computer Science department of UC-Berzerkely. In order to maintain their presence in Silicon Valley, they play Democrat politics. But increasingly their operations in the US are in Red states. Apple’s biggest US office is in Texas. I used to work there.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 10:19 AM

BUT then proceed to make those talking points the accepted conventional wisdom™?

TheRightMan on December 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM

yeah, like higher tax rates = more revenue

In what world?

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:21 AM

This cold comfort you 47 precenters have wrapped around yourselves is garbage. White ass red staters get the most federal money-after their ceo masters.

Do any of you idiots realize that the entire tech sector-the biggest companies in the world-Google Apple Microsoft are nearly all progressives. The engine of the new economy disagrees with you ‘baggers on very single point. That’s the biggest reason your party is dead. Young rich people think you are subhuman-and they are right.

tommyhawk on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

You democrat party only exist because the PARASITES who live on the producers money vote for you… I am sure that you too is a PARASITE… Your party only way to get votes is take money from the Producers and give to the PARASITES like you… Now who are the subhumans? The PARASITES like you or the PRODUCERS like us?

mnjg on December 4, 2012 at 10:22 AM

This cold comfort you 47 precenters…you idiots… you ‘baggers … you are subhuman

tommyhawk on December 4, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Ed, do you really want idiots like this one on the forum? It is time to axe him…

mnjg on December 4, 2012 at 10:23 AM

not true. Just take a look at the Reagan campaign.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:05 AM

But Reagan did nothing about the underlying moral vanity of the middle class. As soon as he was gone, the monsters came out of hiding, knowing they will be abetted.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 10:24 AM

mnjg on December 4, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Obamaphone lady – if she could form a cogent thought – would agree

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Isn’t it amazing how the right is always complaining about the incestuous relationship between the MSM and Democrats and how they employ talking points BUT then proceed to make those talking points the accepted conventional wisdom™?

TheRightMan on December 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM

yeap it takes leaders to call out the media to continue to push beliefs that run counter to the majority until those eliefs are mainstream. And it takes actions to back up those words. IT’s great to talk about lower taxes helping the economy but when was the last t ime we had tax cuts? they worked but instead of using the new revenue created by them to balance the budget Bush went on a spending spree. So the dems were easily able to say the tax cuts caused the red ink instead of the gOP and Dems spending sprees.

when is the last time GOP leaders talked about the additional rev that the bnush tax cuts brought it. When was the last time they talked about how the Bush tax hikes in the early 90′s caused a recession. Are they out there saying without the capital gains tax cuts by Newt and CLinton there would have been no balanced budget in the clinton years? Anmd they making the case that jobs produce tax rev and to raise rev we need new taxpayersa not new taxes. Rubio mentioned it that quickly forgot about it. Are they talkign about anti-trust cases to break up these too big to fail companies so the tax payer will never again have to save the “economy” because of mistakes by the few?

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Obamaphone lady – if she could form a cogent thought – would agree

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:25 AM

We need to make the “Obamphone Lady” and the “Welfare Queen” as the face of the demcorat party… We do this and we will crush these damn communists and socialists in the elections… We need to rile up the Producers against the Parasites, we need the Producers to absolutely hate the Parasites…

mnjg on December 4, 2012 at 10:29 AM

But Reagan did nothing about the underlying moral vanity of the middle class. As soon as he was gone, the monsters came out of hiding, knowing they will be abetted.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 10:24 AM

And it has taken almost 30 years to undo what Reagan did in the general population as far as what they “bitterly cling” too. Without the middle class you have fedualism or socialism. There is nothing else. both means the rule of the masses by the elites and we simple choose which master will be our jailor.

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Well, duhhhhhh. Of course they want to rub their noses in it. It’s so easy and it’s so much fun. No one believes the Republicans as polls show. Everyone assumes that the Republicans are stupid and want to ruin their fun talking about fiscal cliffs and Armagedon. They never do anything to prove the Dems wrong.

BetseyRoss on December 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM

…now where were we Anderson??

Oh yeah, those Tea Baggers!!

HAHAHHHAHHAHAA!!!! Good one Anderson!!

ToddPA on December 4, 2012 at 10:31 AM

I’ll double my taxes if only we quit giving away “free stuff” and bailing every moocher who screws up out of their problem.

Tater Salad on December 4, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Obama’s method is that defined by Harry Hopkins in the FDR administration;


Tax and tax, spend and spend, elect and elect.

It’s pointless to think of him ‘sitting down” with Boehner; he’s already one that. And his “compromise” is always the same;


Give me all the tax increases I want to fund the increased spending I want (along with the money I borrow), and maybe I’ll give you some “spending cuts’ (i.e., reductions in the rate of increase) sometime later.

It’s exactly the same “deal” the Dems offered Reagan in 1986. That time, they got the tax increases, and then refused to consider any “cuts” in spending.

That’s what the GOP, and the American people, can expect from Obama and the Democrats. Taxes increasing over and over again, spending increasing even faster- and nothing else.

They simply do not believe that their joyride can ever end, because they believe they are so incredibly smart that the laws of economics do not apply to them.

And if they’re wrong, and it all comes crashing down, they can build Utopia on the ruins of the hated capitalist system.

You cannot reason with a delusional ideologue. Especially when they believe they are on the cusp of seizing the “absolute power to do good” they have been convinced is their birthright from the first.

All you can do is get out of their way, and let them run over the cliff of their own volition.

And let them learn the hard way that the mob they’ve ginned up to carry their enemies in tumbrels will turn on them in a heartbeat when “bread and circuses” are no longer forthcoming.

clear ether

eon

eon on December 4, 2012 at 10:33 AM

We need to make the “Obamphone Lady” and the “Welfare Queen” as the face of the demcorat party… We do this and we will crush these damn communists and socialists in the elections… We need to rile up the Producers against the Parasites, we need the Producers to absolutely hate the Parasites…

mnjg on December 4, 2012 at 10:29 AM

agreed but we also need to promote policies that reward hard work and give back the dream of making it on your own without help from the government. We need to drill into people’s minds again that the ten most evil words in the english language is “I am from the government and I am here to help”

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:33 AM

Time to show some guts, quit negotiating and pass a bill that is either the current Bowles Plan or even Simpson Bowles, then walk away and leave it in the Senate and with the President.

The focus will immediately change from Boehner and the House to Reid and the Senate..

Tater Salad on December 4, 2012 at 10:34 AM

They are “progressive” because of the Silicon Valley tech sector’s origins in the Computer Science department of UC-Berzerkely. In order to maintain their presence in Silicon Valley, they play Democrat politics. But increasingly their operations in the US are in Red states. Apple’s biggest US office is in Texas. I used to work there.

Sekhmet on December 4, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Also, the one sector the fascist socialists are smart enough to leave alone, for now, is the tech sector. They also play nice with much of the financial sector behind closed doors, picking favorites and protecting them with “too big to fail” legislation and the like.

Selective crony capitalism is part of the new socialism’s play book, found in the section under fascism.

If they treated the tech sector the way they treat the health and energy sectors things would be different. If they started looking closely at the profit margins of these corporations they would see that they dwarf those in almost every other sector of the economy. Not to mention that the tech “workers” in these companies are often working 50-80 hour weeks for 40 hours pay. I know. I’ve been there. And then let’s talk about overseas outsourcing and moving jobs to China and elsewhere. These corporations are leaders in these practices. The new socialists conveniently ignore all of this because it is in their interest to do so, for now.

Lastly, to say that entire corporations are “progressive” is silly.

farsighted on December 4, 2012 at 10:35 AM

All you can do is get out of their way, and let them run over the cliff of their own volition.

And let them learn the hard way that the mob they’ve ginned up to carry their enemies in tumbrels will turn on them in a heartbeat when “bread and circuses” are no longer forthcoming.

clear ether

eon

eon on December 4, 2012 at 10:33 AM

agree you can’t reason with them but disagree the only thing to do is get out of the way. You can FIGHT THEM AND BEAT THEM.

But for everyone, surely, what we have gone through in this period — I am addressing myself to the School — surely from this period of ten months, this is the lesson: Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never — in nothing, great or small, large or petty — never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.-Churchill

unseen on December 4, 2012 at 10:40 AM

This government is so broken and screwed up now, the best thing is to let it fall. The GOP needs to vote present on everything.Let Bsrry own it, stand back and when it falls, immediately point to Dumbo the flying liberal, Barry did it, its his policies, his plan.If you are going to get blamed anyways, then create as much collateral damage as you can. So LET IT BURN !

stormridercx4 on December 4, 2012 at 10:40 AM

there is no fiscal cliff – just a painful (for the takers) return to fiscal sanity. Let’s go diving.

Slade73 on December 4, 2012 at 10:40 AM

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