San Bernardino city attorney to citizens: “Lock your doors and load your guns”

posted at 9:21 pm on December 3, 2012 by J.E. Dyer

The bankrupt city of San Bernardino, CA voted last week to slash its fiscal-year budget by $26 million, to close up a $52.4 million shortfall.  No, $26 million isn’t enough, and we’ll get to that in a minute.  But the $26 million will have a significant impact on the operating budget for police and fire, and that’s got folks in a tizzy.

The difference in the law enforcement budget won’t mean a big cut in the current sworn police force.  It’s down to 270 today, from a mid-2000s high of 358, but that cutback has already happened.  The new budget figure caps personnel at 260.  As officers retire, they won’t be replaced until the number drops below 260.

Although its crime numbers have declined overall since 2005 (leveling out in 2011 and 2012), San Bernardino remains among the most dangerous cities of its size in the country, posting about twice as many crime incidents as the national average.  Violent crime in San Bernardino is especially high, twice that of California as a whole.  San Bernardino’s 260 officers compare favorably to the 214 on the Gilbert, AZ police force, a city in the same size category (200,000-215,000).  But Gilbert’s crime numbers are lower – much lower.  Cities with crime rates similar to San Bernardino’s, like Spokane, WA, Birmingham, AL, Richmond, VA, and Rochester, NY, have much larger police forces, running to sworn-officer rosters between 700 and 800.

So the San Bernardino city attorney advised citizens at a community meeting in November to “Go home, lock your doors, and load your guns.”  In response to the media furor over this suggestion, James Penman had this to say:

In an interview Thursday, Penman said that he stands behind that advice, and he’s gotten nothing but positive responses from residents since then. He said the only criticism he’s received has been from the media…

“I can understand how people who don’t live or work in the City of San Bernardino and don’t hear the sirens every night, the gun shots, the helicopters overhead, as many San Bernardino residents do, might not understand the significance when you have people being killed in their homes,” he said.

Penman said he is only repeating what police officers have told him: that the city can provide only basic law enforcement services due to recent cuts.

“We need to stop giving people false hope,” Penman said. “We have to start encouraging people to protect themselves. The situation is that bad in San Bernardino.”

Now, I think there is something to be said for parsing Penman’s words.  San Bernardino isn’t letting police officers go.  It’s not like things are going to immediately get worse than they are now.  The point is not so much that things will change, with the new budget, as that things won’t change.  San Bernardino has all the police officers it’s going to have for the foreseeable future.  If crime gets worse – too bad.  The city can’t afford to do more about it.

San Bernardino is also cutting fire department overtime by 35 percent, which ought to be interesting.  It has been very humid over the past week (I live about 35 miles from San Bernardino), but that won’t last.  San Bernardino will see fire season again.

Even the $26 million in spending cuts doesn’t make up half of the city’s shortfall, however.  So San Bernardino is deferring its contributions to CalPERS, the state pension fund in which government workers are invested.  (Their employers, like the city of San Bernardino, contribute to the fund.)  The city plans to renegotiate its other pension-bond obligations with bondholders.  The current-year deferrals will amount to $35 million.

CalPERS has formally objected to the “deferral” plan – adopted as part of the city’s bankruptcy proceeding – because of the virtual certainty that San Bernardino will never make the deferred contributions.  The city’s current unfunded pension obligations are $143 million, a sum larger than San Bernardino’s total general-fund revenues in each of the last ten years.

Of course, CalPERS’ own problems are staggering.  The fund’s invested value declined nearly 5 percentbetween July 2011 and July 2012, which hasn’t helped with the estimated

$398 billion by which CalPERS is underfunded versus future pension obligations.

San Bernardino County got $936 million from the 2009 federal stimulus – $464 per county resident – but that hasn’t improved the economy in the area.  The city of San Bernardino is now the second-poorest large city in America (Detroit is the poorest).

After creating brief notoriety for the county, the idea of using eminent domain to seize underwater mortgages and modify them – i.e., reduce the mortgage amount to the current market value of a property – has gone silent.  But interest in the idea is still there, and advocates will be pushing it again in 2013.  Declining revenues from properties with non-performing mortgages are a big annoyance for local governments.

J.E. Dyer’s articles have appeared at Hot Air, Commentary’s “contentions,Patheos, The Daily Caller, The Jewish Press, and The Weekly Standard online.

Her home blog is The Optimistic Conservative.  She also writes for the new blog Liberty Unyielding.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Also Paul Kersey is an avowed white supremacist…

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:31 PM

You had a nation once led by slaveowners now being led by the formerly enslaved.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:18 PM

How does Bark fit into that template, does one half try to dominate the other or what?

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM

Also Paul Kersey is an avowed white supremacist…

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:31 PM

So was Lincoln.

Hey, maybe you do have a point after all.

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 10:34 PM

In began long before that, so what’s your point?

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Look up “block busting” and “white flight” to understand why white people abandoned Detroit en masse. Or just better yet, read Sugrue’s book. Unlike Paul Kersey’s screed, it has footnotes.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:35 PM

God you’re sad. You do research to LEARN. Of course, one does need to examine the quality of the research involved. If a book on Detroit’s decline begins in 1967, you know that’s a political decision. It doesn’t actually talk about Detroit’s decline from an Arsenal of Democracy since the World War II industrial plants were shut down and converted to manufacturing operations in all white suburban areas between the War and the 1950s. Long before the 1967 riot.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:29 PM

And therein lies the full reveal of you–up to, including, of, and all by yourself.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 10:35 PM

When was that?

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 10:31 PM

In Egypt and later by Rome (Jewish slaves built the Coliseum) and many times throughout history. Of course, this is not unique to Jews. Lots of different people have a heritage that included having been enslaved by someone at some point.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 3, 2012 at 10:36 PM

So was Lincoln.

Indeed he was! As was just about every President up to Jimmy Carter. Being a white supremacist has only very recently become a disqualifying quality for American Presidents.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

Interesting how a simple expository discussion of a city’s fiscal mismanagement that has led to a inadequately staffed police department has devolved into a finger-pointing, name-calling race word-war.

But that is what the Left does- drag everyone down to the lowest possible level.

Personally, I don’t care what they call me. In fact, at this point, if mental and physical runts aren’t calling me racist/sexist/Gaia-killer, I can be pretty sure I’m not behaving like an honorable man.

So, suck my Glock, Nancy-boys.

M240H on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

And therein lies the full reveal of you–up to, including, of, and all by yourself.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Are you under the impression that suburban areas in Detroit were racially mixed during the 1950s?

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

Being a white supremacist has only very recently become a disqualifying quality for American Presidents.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

The tide reversed when Bill Clinton became the first black President.

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 10:38 PM

libfree:

The way you’re trying to postulate, you’re all but saying that if whites didn’t flee the cities, the black crime rate would be less.

Am I reading you right, here?

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Interesting how a simple expository discussion of a city’s fiscal mismanagement that has led to a inadequately staffed police department has devolved into a finger-pointing, name-calling race word-war.

But that is what the Left does- drag everyone down to the lowest possible level.

This shows how conservatism warps the mind. Look through the thread and see who first brought up race in this thread. Unless you think Liam and lowandslow are liberals in disguise you’re blaming the Left for your own stuff.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

In Egypt and later by Rome (Jewish slaves built the Coliseum) and many times throughout history. Of course, this is not unique to Jews. Lots of different people have a heritage that included having been enslaved by someone at some point.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 3, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Oh, didn’t think of Rome, and not familiar with that, but Jews were never enslaved in Egypt.

link

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Look up “block busting” and “white flight” to understand why white people abandoned Detroit en masse. Or just better yet, read Sugrue’s book. Unlike Paul Kersey’s screed, it has footnotes.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:35 PM

What difference does it make? You seem to want ignore the fact that Detroit was once a stellar example of traditional Americanism and is now something that is more in line with a third world example of a major city and turn the discussion into something completely different to avoid that conversation.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Why did the whites flee the cities? Because they didn’t want to live in harmony with law abiding blacks? Or was it for another reason?

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 10:40 PM

Hey, libfree …. why don’t you go find that pledge they took at the million man march and post that? I think it will really support your case :)

I dare you to post that pledge.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 3, 2012 at 10:40 PM

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

You are who your friends are. Always nice to see you here, bud.

Christien on December 3, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Being a white supremacist has only very recently become a disqualifying quality for American Presidents.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

Not for veeps though.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 10:41 PM

San Bernardino is espanish for “Saint Bernard,” which is Swiss or Austrian for “Save yourself.”

Christien on December 3, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Capitalist Hog on December 3, 2012 at 10:21 PM

ROFL

That one went flying right over your head.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Bishop:)
========

Like a F-14 TomCat,with Full AFTERBURNER
of 27,800 lbf/per/engine alight!-:O

canopfor on December 3, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Why did the whites flee the cities? Because they didn’t want to live in harmony with law abiding blacks? Or was it for another reason?

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 10:40 PM

Why would anybody want to live with people who vote for a corrupt SOB such as Jesse Jackson Jr. as their congressman?

sentinelrules on December 3, 2012 at 10:46 PM

This shows how conservatism warps the mind. Look through the thread and see who first brought up race in this thread. Unless you think Liam and lowandslow are liberals in disguise you’re blaming the Left for your own stuff.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

I really cheese you off, don’t I?

Except I’m not the one between us who holds ‘racial consciousness’.

And if you think I’m going to back down from stats you claim to love so much, try again.

Being a Conservative, you and your ilk already consider me a racist. You want racism, libfree? Here’s one:

When I was dating a black woman, the epithets hurled at us came from blacks. They stopped their cars when we walked to her bus stop, hand in hand, to yell at us (mostly against her).

Don;t you ever DARE presume to lecture me about race, libfree. Because you have nothing except your own abusive prejudices. And YOU ARE and abuser. You can’t live and let live.

Save your lectures for teenyboppers held hostage in your classes. you make make no headway with me at all.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 10:46 PM

San Bernardino city attorney to citizens: “Lock your doors and load your guns”

Forward!!!

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 3, 2012 at 10:48 PM

Why would anybody want to live with people who vote for a corrupt SOB such as Jesse Jackson Jr. as their congressman?

sentinelrules on December 3, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Sorry sentinel, it was a question for libfree. He’s throwing “white flight” around and I wanted him to explain why he thinks it happened.

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Being a white supremacist has only very recently become a disqualifying quality for American Presidents.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

libfreeordie:


Interesting…how do you feel about the coziness of
the Black-Panthers in relation to Obama,who over-sees
his…

….Obomanination,er,

Obama Nation!!

canopfor on December 3, 2012 at 10:49 PM

The way you’re trying to postulate, you’re all but saying that if whites didn’t flee the cities, the black crime rate would be less.

Are you interested in “slogan” like explanations of multi-decade political and economic dynamics because you want to misrepresent me or because you actually lack the mental capacity to think about history in more complex terms? Here is what the evidence says. White flight occured *before* rising black crime rates in Detroit after the 1967 riot. White homeowners *openly* said that they left inner city areas because of a desire to not live next to black people. You can trace the origins of white flight to the U.S. Supreme Court decision Shelley v. Kramer and the practice of “blockbusting.”

Here’s what also happened in Detroit. The federal government via the GI Bill and the FHA subsidized white suburbanization and helped manufacturing firms relocate to place them in closer proximity to white communities. Federal highway construction made tens of thousands of black detroiters homeless as it split black neighborhoods in half in order to serve the commuting needs of suburbia. All of these factors left African Americans with: 1. Little to no access to decent paying jobs 2. No access to federal welfare programs that facilitated white homeownership. In other words, the very things that defined American citizenship, the exchange of hard work for a middle class lifestyle was systematically stolen from black Detroiters. Oh and then combine with the regular assault and murders committed by the police against black Detroiters in the 40s, 50s and 60s (look up what sparked the 1967 riot, you may be surprised) and its little surprise black folks in Detroit gradually came to believe there was no point in being active participants in society and part of that leads to crime.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Oh, didn’t think of Rome, and not familiar with that,

There’s a menorah on the Coliseum gate to signify that it was built with the spoils from the sacking of Jerusalem and the Temple. Jewish slaves were brought back by Rome to build the Coliseum.

but Jews were never enslaved in Egypt.

link

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Yeah, I’ve seen that argument. I don’t buy it. The Torah was the only recording of the Hittite Empire – which most people had assumed never existed – until Hatushah was finally discovered some time in the 19th century in Syria. For well over 2000 years the ONLY recording of the Hittites was in the Torah – and that was a world superpower during its existence. I trust the Biblical history of that period as it has generally been proven correct, even as many have doubted it for “lack of evidence”.

I’ll go with the Bible story about the slavery in Egypt and the Exodus. The Egyptians did record the story of the Hiksos and many had assumed for a couple of millenia that the Hiksos (who were a group from Canaan) were the Jews as described in the Torah.

In any event, there has been archaelogical evidence of Jewish life in Egypt, though scant. And the Egyptians don’t allow much if it points in that direction (just as the Muslim Waq’f works hard to destroy any artifacts it finds on the Temple Mount, as the muslims maintain that there was never a Temple there – which is a joke, of course).

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 3, 2012 at 10:51 PM

What difference does it make? You seem to want ignore the fact that Detroit was once a stellar example of traditional Americanism and is now something that is more in line with a third world example of a major city and turn the discussion into something completely different to avoid that conversation.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

So Detroit’s decline has nothing to do with the fact that the only people who the government counted as full citizens (white people) left en masse after World War II?

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Oh, didn’t think of Rome, and not familiar with that, but Jews were never enslaved in Egypt.

link
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/the-jewish-thinker/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

What they are demanding is evidence other than the bible that this took place. They do not of course make such requests regarding Egyptian sources. Those are accepted without question.

The Merneptah Stele mentions “Israel is laid waste” and since the taking of slaves was common there would be Jewish slaves in Egypt, and the Ipuwer Papyrus mentions “the river is blood” which is also spoken of in Exodus.

sharrukin on December 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

All of these factors left African Americans with: 1. Little to no access to decent paying jobs 2. No access to federal welfare programs that facilitated white homeownership. In other words, the very things that defined American citizenship, the exchange of hard work for a middle class lifestyle was systematically stolen from black Detroiters. Oh and then combine with the regular assault and murders committed by the police against black Detroiters in the 40s, 50s and 60s (look up what sparked the 1967 riot, you may be surprised) and its little surprise black folks in Detroit gradually came to believe there was no point in being active participants in society and part of that leads to crime.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Good grief, shorter version, it’s whiteys fault. Must be nice that blacks never have to take responsibility for anything.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:54 PM

So Detroit’s decline has nothing to do with the fact that the only people who the government counted as full citizens (white people) left en masse after World War II?

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Again, it’s you making the argument that blacks can’t govern or take responsibility for building a decent life for themselves, not me.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:56 PM

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Your endless needs-to-be-right pontificating ends any chance of a better conversation with you.

Write all you want against me, quote me all you like to feed yourself. I’m comfortable with it, because even at a dime a dozen you liberals are overpriced.

I know what I have been through, over and above politics. There isn’t a damned thing on which you can arrogantly presume to lecture me, let alone speak of my life.

I find your overbearing screeds to be little more than overblown defenses of yourself.

Okay, sure. Have at it!

I want you liberals to get everything you desire; I want you going whole hog and in full. But with the hands clean from you of your enemies, so that you own it all.

Bon apetite!

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Good grief, shorter version, it’s whiteys fault. Must be nice that blacks never have to take responsibility for anything.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:54 PM

Yup, just look at Jovan Belcher.

Can’t blame a black male for his alleged actions, so we must blame the White Man’s guns.

sentinelrules on December 3, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Good grief, shorter version, it’s whiteys fault. Must be nice that blacks never have to take responsibility for anything.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 10:54 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

One observation here, for those arguing from the right here with the socialists-

It wasn’t per se “white flight”, it was the flight of the financially able, including middle-class blacks. This has actually been especially well documented in the case of Detroit. Witness Grosse Point.Interestingly enough, the auto industry was also the first utterly racially integrated modern industry, at least at the hourly wage level,

The better question now is why a Democratically ruled city suh as Detroit now does nothing but consistently exploit and victimized the remaining demoralized populace.

M240H on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Most sensible people already keep their doors locked and guns loaded realizing that the typical Obama voter likely keeps its idle self busy hoping to no-cash and carry upgrade the household electronics while waiting for the walkin’ ’round money gummint checks.

viking01 on December 3, 2012 at 11:01 PM

I thought conservatives “don’t see color.” Which means that the racial demographics of this city is actually irrelevant to the issues raised in the original post, which were about gun ownership, funding of the police and the issue of safety. Are these, or are these not racially neutral issues? And if they are not racially neural how is it that conservatives raised them while not being able to “see race?”

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:02 PM

I don’t know about anyone else, but I see color. I also see character, intelligence, sense of humor, personality and a million other things about people that matter way more than what color they are. Conversely, the fact that you are a certain color does not give you a pass to be hateful, to lie, cheat, steal or kill people. It does not require people to pretend that crime in a certain area is not committed by whoever committed that crime. If a certain group doesn’t think people should have a poor opinion of them, then they shouldn’t do the things that cause people to have a poor opinion of them, whatever the f$ck color they are. I asked you months ago to explain the NBPP in regard to the things they say, which are hateful and repugnant. Why is it okay for them to say out loud that they plan to kill my children and me? You have never answered. I wonder why? I wonder how you can take the mild comments here and get so (fake) worked up. I see it as a leftist tactic rather than genuine concern, and I want you to know it doesn’t work anymore.

Night Owl on December 3, 2012 at 11:01 PM

.Interestingly enough, the auto industry was also the first utterly racially integrated modern industry, at least at the hourly wage level,

Which jobs were blacks allowed in the auto industry until the 1970s? Tell the whole story.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:01 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

How trite and classicly nancy liberal!

What say you about right now? How is today working for you, without that cheat of ‘history’?

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:02 PM

Stealing hub caps.

SparkPlug on December 3, 2012 at 11:03 PM

Stealing radios.

SparkPlug on December 3, 2012 at 11:03 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Some of us don’t become proud of America until our spouses are elected POTUS.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Democrat run unions blocked blacks from working in the auto industry.

SparkPlug on December 3, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Meanwhile, can someone explain how Obama is “ant-business?” http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Night Owl on December 3, 2012 at 11:01 PM

Great post.

SparkPlug on December 3, 2012 at 11:05 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

I revoke and disallow your argument of ‘history’. You, me, and everyone else is here today, at this moment. How about you lecture us all of the here and now; enlighten us plebes with your brilliance and insight?

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:06 PM

Meanwhile, can someone explain how Obama is “ant-business?” http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:04 PM

And this is the moment when libfree changes the subject. Ain’t liberalism awesome?

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 11:06 PM

C’mon, libfree! Tell us all how great it is and how better off we are to be living today, December 3, 2012.

Inspire us!

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:08 PM

How does Bark fit into that template, does one half try to dominate the other or what?

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM

He’s a regular Pushmememememememepullyou.

Shy Guy on December 3, 2012 at 11:08 PM

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 10:39 PM

lulz

Might as Well quote The Guardian or Al Arabiya to back up your arguments.

Shy Guy on December 3, 2012 at 11:10 PM

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:49 PM

LOL.

Stil waiting on those statistics from you … You’d be quick with them to show the color of people failing Lieutenant’s Exams in New Haven Fire Departments … but you don’t seem to like them with respect to violent crime. Why is that?

Also, how does your Detroit excuse apply to the rest of the world? There are lots of countries out there looking for you to come up with an explanation for them and their violence.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 3, 2012 at 11:10 PM

And this is the moment when libfree changes the subject. Ain’t liberalism awesome?

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 11:06 PM

My fave die-hard Marxist professor from years ago would have torn libfree to shreds after his first comment.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:10 PM

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Because in the light of day, when you put his policies under a magnifying glass, the little people get burned?

Christien on December 3, 2012 at 11:11 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

You don’t know the first thing about American history. You want to know the history of black America over the last hundred or so years? Listen carefully, for the first half of the last century they were advancing and prospering at an astounding rate. Why? Because they were adopting the values and culture of the rest of America. Then in the last half of the century they fell victim to the hate and grievance mongering of a few radical leaders with the blessing of the liberal mindset in America. To voice any concerns about it would lead to the same racist accusations that exist today. So Black Americans started rejecting traditional American values and reverted back to their old values of tribalism and yes, violence. The problem inherent in Black communities now has nothing to do with whites, except in the way we crumbled to liberalism by not saying or doing anything about it.
That’s the hard truth of it, but I’m sure you’ll ignore it.

lowandslow on December 3, 2012 at 11:12 PM

C’mon libfree! Screw history. Join the 21st Century and come to Marlboro country, would you? Enlighten us!

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:13 PM

And this is the moment when libfree changes the subject. Ain’t liberalism awesome?

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 11:06 PM

The blog equivalent of starting a fight and trying to fend off the resultant righteous ass-whooping by offering to have a dance off instead.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 11:14 PM

The blog equivalent of starting a fight and trying to fend off the resultant righteous ass-whooping by offering to have a dance off instead.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 11:14 PM

A bloggers West Side Story?

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 11:15 PM

When effectively challenged, libfree gets some semblance of smarts and shuts up.

Dipflippin’ nancy…

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:17 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Which version of “history”? The version that says the Boston Tea Party guys were terrorists and George Washington was a philanderer, or the non-psychotic versions written by people who were actually around back then?

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 3, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Facts hurt my head.

-libfree

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 11:18 PM

.Interestingly enough, the auto industry was also the first utterly racially integrated modern industry, at least at the hourly wage level,

Which jobs were blacks allowed in the auto industry until the 1970s? Tell the whole story.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:01 PM

Did someone mean to say four decades ago, when the American auto industry produced the most coveted products on the planet?

M240H on December 3, 2012 at 11:19 PM

Sadly “white flight” is reality often because whites soon realized that should they remain in the cities their small and large businesses would be shut out of contracts in lieu of forced minority business contracts and purchase agreements.

Besides the increasingly dangerous publik skools in New Orleans for many white-owned businesses and employees the last straw was the infamous electrical systems contracts for the Louisiana Superdome. Those contracts were forced to a tiny minority firm which kept delaying and delaying until the deadlines for the Superdome to open (circa Summer of 1975) were fast approaching. All of the scoreboards, corridor lighting, super-screen wiring, air conditioning and public address wiring were FUBARed beyond imagination (short circuits, reverse-wiring, scoreboard numbers not wired in sequence, overloaded wiring etc.) by the quota contractor. Finally wisdom (and desperation) prevailed and contractor(s) up to the task were brought in to sort it all out and make the facility barely usable until they could fully sort out the quota-job disaster.

For plenty of non-minority businesses in New Orleans that was the signal to move flee to the suburbs where they could stand a fair chance of competing for contracts on merit because with the forced minority set-asides in Orleans Parish factors like competence and ability to do the job timely were increasingly irrelevant.

viking01 on December 3, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Which version of “history”? The version that says the Boston Tea Party guys were terrorists and George Washington was a philanderer, or the non-psychotic versions written by people who were actually around back then?

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 3, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Liberals love the play toy of ‘history’. But what about the here and now?

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 11:20 PM

The blog equivalent of starting a fight and trying to fend off the resultant righteous ass-whooping by offering to have a dance off instead.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Or an ants off. Nobody knows “ant-business” like Obots.

Christien on December 3, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Facts hurt my head.

-libfree

NapaConservative on December 3, 2012 at 11:18 PM

After that concussion he couldn’t sit down for a week…

viking01 on December 3, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Glock 17
HK45C
S&W 686P
Mossberg 500
Colt M4
Winchester 1892

Need a Remington 700.

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Those are some of the most coveted products on the planet currently.

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:27 PM

If anyone wants to gift me with a SCAR 16 and SCAR 17, I’d be most appreciative.
It’s almost Christmas after all.

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:29 PM

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM

I was always a blued-steel and God’s own walnut kind of guy (I’ll see your 686 and raise you a model 27) but when I really did my home work for a carry piece, I ended up with the Glock.

Glock 23 gen 4, Dawson Precision fiber sights, Crimson Trace on the back strap.

M240H on December 3, 2012 at 11:34 PM

So was Lincoln.

Indeed he was! As was just about every President up to Jimmy Carter. Being a white supremacist has only very recently become a disqualifying quality for American Presidents.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 10:37 PM

And you’re a black racist. I suppose you’re even with the man.

hawkdriver on December 3, 2012 at 11:39 PM

We all know the solution ta San Berdu’s fiscal problems– raise taxes on the rich San Berduans while increasing spending, temporarily mind you.

racquetballer on December 3, 2012 at 11:41 PM

That model 27 is a beauty.
Not long ago, I came this close to buying a Colt Python, but cooler heads (wife) prevailed!
Glocks are great.
I do my best shooting with the Glock.
I have the HK45C for carry, but the Glock 23 would be a better choice overall for carry.

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:43 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

What’s really sad is liberals trying to rewrite history to suit their particular political meme.

What always surprises me is that with any Republican who is embroiled in a fact or fiction media scandal, the very first thing they’ll tell you about the person is their political party. You have to dig deep in any story about Martin Luthor King to figure which party he was a member of.

But good job, libfreeordeathtomedialiar. Way to change the story from proof your president is presiding over the worst economy in our lifetime and California has all but run out of money to your pet delusion of rampant racism.

Make sure you check under your bed and in the closet before you turn in tonight. It’s everywhere.

hawkdriver on December 3, 2012 at 11:47 PM

I have the HK45C for carry, but the Glock 23 would be a better choice overall for carry.

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:43 PM

My buddy carries the P2000sk .40 and has let me work it out at the range. Yepper, easy to love the HK’s, but hard to find much gunleather for them.

M240H on December 3, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Yeah, I’ve seen that argument. I don’t buy it. The Torah was the only recording of the Hittite Empire – which most people had assumed never existed – until Hatushah was finally discovered some time in the 19th century in Syria. For well over 2000 years the ONLY recording of the Hittites was in the Torah – and that was a world superpower during its existence. I trust the Biblical history of that period as it has generally been proven correct, even as many have doubted it for “lack of evidence”.

I’ll go with the Bible story about the slavery in Egypt and the Exodus. The Egyptians did record the story of the Hiksos and many had assumed for a couple of millenia that the Hiksos (who were a group from Canaan) were the Jews as described in the Torah.

In any event, there has been archaelogical evidence of Jewish life in Egypt, though scant. And the Egyptians don’t allow much if it points in that direction (just as the Muslim Waq’f works hard to destroy any artifacts it finds on the Temple Mount, as the muslims maintain that there was never a Temple there – which is a joke, of course).

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 3, 2012 at 10:51 PM

Jews were NEVER slaves in Egypt. Part of re-written history. Or rater badly interpreted Torah passages. Moses was not even a Jew, the name meant nothing in Hebrew at the time. Let’s not go there.

Main problem with Bible and Torah, actually, is that Torah has rarely been interpreted properly to begin with. Now that we have more of Shumer history to sift through and understand Shumer language much better Torah “translation” and understanding should be given a better light. I do believe in Old Testament, and this comes from an agnostic Jew, if not an atheist raised by USSR educational system, but major parts of it should be re-read carefully with Shumer language taken more seriously as its foundation (which Hewbrew is based upon). Torah is nothing more than compressed Shumer historical records.

If you understand the difference between Eloh and Elohim you will understand what I am saying. Otherwise, there is no point in discussing any of this.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

What they are demanding is evidence other than the bible that this took place. They do not of course make such requests regarding Egyptian sources. Those are accepted without question.

The Merneptah Stele mentions “Israel is laid waste” and since the taking of slaves was common there would be Jewish slaves in Egypt, and the Ipuwer Papyrus mentions “the river is blood” which is also spoken of in Exodus.

sharrukin on December 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

The Bible is not evidence.

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Insanity. As an immigrant to this (once) great country I can easily bet that I know USA history way better than you do.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:56 PM

I have a Crossbreed holster for the HK. It’s pretty good quality and very comfortable.
Time for bed. Gotta work early to pay for ammo!
Nice talking weaponry with you, M240H!
G’night.

justltl on December 3, 2012 at 11:56 PM

The Bible is not evidence.

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Actually, IT IS.

Do yourself a favor and spend some time learning humankind history.

And this comes from an agnostic. Old Testament is nothing but PROVEN HISTORY.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Actually, IT IS.

Actually, it isn’t.

Do yourself a favor and spend some time learning humankind history.

And this comes from an agnostic. Old Testament is nothing but PROVEN HISTORY.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Oh, if you only knew who you were talking to.

The Old Testament is nothing but myth and metaphor, not history.

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:00 AM

Clue me in, oh Super Being. You seem to be absolutely clueless on history.

riddick on December 4, 2012 at 12:02 AM

The Old Testament is nothing but myth and metaphor, not history.

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:00 AM

Only … your opinion.

hawkdriver on December 4, 2012 at 12:02 AM

No, it’s more amusing this way.

But after having read your posts on this page, I have a much better understanding of your ignorance in other matters.

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:03 AM

I knew communist lite were clueless, but now we’re reaching a new level of absolute ignorance.

riddick on December 4, 2012 at 12:04 AM

What’s really sad is that people who claim to be proud of America actively rebel against learning American history.

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 11:00 PM

.
In the mean time, people who claim to be “the adults in the room”, embrace revisionist history.

listens2glenn on December 4, 2012 at 12:04 AM

The Old Testament is nothing but myth and metaphor, not history.

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:00 AM

.
Save it for God, when you meet him.

listens2glenn on December 4, 2012 at 12:05 AM

The Merneptah Stele mentions “Israel is laid waste” and since the taking of slaves was common there would be Jewish slaves in Egypt, and the Ipuwer Papyrus mentions “the river is blood” which is also spoken of in Exodus.

sharrukin on December 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

The Bible is not evidence.

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

That’s not the bible genius. Those are Egyptian sources.

And yes, the bible is evidence, just as every historical document is evidence regardless of what you want to be true.

BTW, your link about this…
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/the-jewish-thinker/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844
isn’t capable of determining the difference between a donkey and a camel as evidenced by the picture caption, so I wouldn’t take it as authoritative.

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:06 AM

That’s not the bible genius.

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Your quote, “genius”:

What they are demanding is evidence other than the bible that this took place.

sharrukin on December 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:11 AM

Dante, since I am sure you’re an idiot being a communist lite and following your racist, anti-semitic leader Herr Doktor, why do I also think that you don’t know Hebrew enough to even continue this argument. Actually, you don’t know Hebrew, period, based on your stupidity above. And you simply follow your anti-semitic leader Herr Doktor in his zealous “Jews are evil and whatever they claim is evil as well” campaign.

I repeat once again. I am not religious. Never been. And yet after decades of saying that Old Testament is bunk now that I boned up on history I am more than sure that it is nothing but a historical record. DETAILED HISTORICAL RECORD. Somewhat badly interpreted in parts, but still, a HISTORICAL RECORD. Which pretty much every well regarded historian believes in these days.

Only an idiot would refuse to acknowledge that at this point.

riddick on December 4, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Jews were NEVER slaves in Egypt. Part of re-written history. Or rater badly interpreted Torah passages. Moses was not even a Jew, the name meant nothing in Hebrew at the time. Let’s not go there.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Do you mean the difference between Talmudic Judaism as opposed to religion practices in pre-exile Israel?

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:12 AM

The Bible is not evidence.

Dante on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

.
Actually, IT IS.

Do yourself a favor and spend some time learning humankind history.

And this comes from an agnostic. Old Testament is nothing but PROVEN HISTORY.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:58 PM

.
Except for good chunks of Leviticus, and Deuteronomy.

Also the entire books of Psalms, Proverbs, and The Song Of Solomon.

But that’s less than 15% of the Old Testament, so riddick‘s really correct.

listens2glenn on December 4, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Jews were NEVER slaves in Egypt. Part of re-written history. Or rater badly interpreted Torah passages. Moses was not even a Jew, the name meant nothing in Hebrew at the time. Let’s not go there.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

.
Why not?

listens2glenn on December 4, 2012 at 12:15 AM

Your quote, “genius”:

What they are demanding is evidence other than the bible that this took place.

sharrukin on December 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:11 AM

Do you strive to be an idiot?

Because it’s working.

The Merneptah Stele mentions “Israel is laid waste” and since the taking of slaves was common there would be Jewish slaves in Egypt, and the Ipuwer Papyrus mentions “the river is blood” which is also spoken of in Exodus.

sharrukin on December 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

The Merneptah Stele is Egyptian.
The Ipuwer Papyrus is Egyptian.

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:15 AM

If you understand the difference between Eloh and Elohim you will understand what I am saying. Otherwise, there is no point in discussing any of this.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Dude. Give me a break. Your understanding of Hebrew is odd, to say the least.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 4, 2012 at 12:17 AM

White male anxiety is at an all time high because there’s been a shift in the nation’s demographics. I mean when you think about the way conservatives feshitize the founders it makes sense that the 2012 results would cause a collective freak out. You had a nation once led by slaveowners now being led by the formerly enslaved.

You are such a fool. When all the white blue collar males finally wake up and realize that they’ve been screwed over by the Democrats in favor of the preferred minority victim du jeur then all heII will break loose.

Also, I partially agree with your point about certain people and neighborhoods being marginalized by those in power in the 40′s thru the 60′s. It happened here in Dallas. But the common denominator wasn’t RACE it was POVERTY. It just so happened that many in poverty were black. And that has a lot to do with social ills both self-imposed and imposed by others. Once blacks decided to stop trying to attain the goals of white culture and swallowed the victimhood crap it has been all down hill for them. But hey, yippee for “DIVERSITY”.

mrsmwp on December 4, 2012 at 12:20 AM

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Haaretz is a liberal newspaper. NYT of Israel. Have no idea why would anyone even pay attention to it.

Old Testament is not really based on Egypt sources, pretty much all of it came from Sumer (Shumer).

Now, the ten commandments? Yes, those clearly came from Egyptian “Book of the Dead”. Partially, as Book of the Dead had more of the guidelines that described if one is worthy of entering the “after life”. We only got 10 from that list. Main ten. Which themselves came from Sumer as well.

Those commandments, same as ancient Sumer laws, dictated what one should not do. Hamurabi was the first one to then attach punishment to each one. But for centuries before Hamurabi, the laws existed by themselves, spelling out only how one should live his or her life, no punishment was spelled out nor exacted since most people followed the guidelines.

riddick on December 4, 2012 at 12:22 AM

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:15 AM

Do you realize the meanings of the words you use? When you say “evidence other than the bible,” you are saying that the Bible is evidence as well. I wasn’t referring to any part of your post other than your first sentence, so you can keep on typing “Egyptian” until your fingers fall off all you wish.

riddick on December 4, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Yes, your posts on this page have provided context and great insight into your ignorance. I understand your rantings much more fully.

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:24 AM

Haaretz is a liberal newspaper. NYT of Israel. Have no idea why would anyone even pay attention to it.

Any newspaper is a poor source if you have any interest in archeology.

Old Testament is not really based on Egypt sources, pretty much all of it came from Sumer (Shumer).

Now, the ten commandments? Yes, those clearly came from Egyptian “Book of the Dead”. Partially, as Book of the Dead had more of the guidelines that described if one is worthy of entering the “after life”. We only got 10 from that list. Main ten. Which themselves came from Sumer as well.

Those commandments, same as ancient Sumer laws, dictated what one should not do. Hamurabi was the first one to then attach punishment to each one. But for centuries before Hamurabi, the laws existed by themselves, spelling out only how one should live his or her life, no punishment was spelled out nor exacted since most people followed the guidelines.

riddick on December 4, 2012 at 12:22 AM

I have heard a number of different theories as regards the source for the bible and I am as yet unconvinced by most. Clearly there were cross currents of influence both in style and content, but given the world wide prevalence of some of the themes in the bible. I suspect it may be different cultures describing some of the same events through their own understanding and cultural lens.

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:27 AM

you are saying that the Bible is evidence as well. I wasn’t referring to any part of your post other than your first sentence…

Dante on December 4, 2012 at 12:24 AM

I see. Your liberal bigotry just couldn’t get past that part, and kept stuttering in shock that Jewish and Christian sources should be included in the mass of historical documents. You poor thing, I was being so inconsiderate in not preparing you for an unbiased view of the world.

sharrukin on December 4, 2012 at 12:30 AM

libfreeordie on December 3, 2012 at 9:55 PM

So tell me what you actually know about San Bernardino. Fair warning I lived next to it in Colton for 20 years and taught in Rialto also right next door. I’ll know if you are BSing. You do know that when Los Angeles changed some of it’s policing methods the Hispanic and Black gangs were shoved out of a lot of their old hoods and gravitated east along the 10 freeway and ended up in Fontana, Rialto, Colton and San Bernardino. Those four towns weren’t ready for that influx of criminal gangs. The biggest influx occurred in, wait for it, San Bernardino. Fontana and Rialto picked up most of the rest with Colton catching alot of the Hispanic gangs. Most of those murders being talked about are occurring in Black neighborhoods and are a result of gang activity. Do I blame blame black or hispanic people? No. But I do blame black and Hispanic gang members.

BTW LFOD you are as big a racist as I have come across on HA.

chemman on December 4, 2012 at 12:32 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3