GOP “doomsday” plan: vote “present” on middle-class tax rate extension

posted at 11:21 am on December 3, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

I mentioned last week that Republicans had one option to extricate themselves politically from a collapse of the fiscal-cliff talks, which was to just give Obama a House vote on exactly he wants — and then vote “present” to allow it to pass.  ABC’s Jonathan Karl reports that House Republicans are considering a limited version of that option, focusing only on extending the middle-class tax rates and nothing more:

Republicans are seriously considering a Doomsday Plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely.  It’s quite simple:  House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more:  no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes.  Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling.

Two senior Republican elected officials tell me this doomsday plan is becoming the most likely scenario.  A top GOP House  leadership aide confirms the plan is under consideration, but says Speaker Boehner has made no decision on whether to pursue it.

Under one variation of this Doomsday Plan, House Republicans would allow a vote on extending only the middle class tax cuts and Republicans, to express disapproval at the failure to extend all tax cuts, would vote “present” on the bill, allowing it to pass entirely on Democratic votes.

By doing this, Republicans avoid taking blame for tax increases on 98 percent of income tax payers.  As one senior Republican in Congress told me, “You don’t take a hostage you aren’t willing to shoot.”  Republicans aren’t willing to kill the middle class tax cuts, even if extending them alone will make it harder to later extend tax cuts on the wealthy.

I’m not sure what a “present” vote gains Republicans if they only hold a vote on the tax rates.  I’d assume that the House GOP wants to get some credit for keeping middle-class tax rates at their current level, as well as for the AMT fix that will keep millions of us from falling into the vise of a program originally intended to do what Warren Buffett urges us to do again — demand more money from the rich.  It seems to me that the House GOP can vote to pass this bill tomorrow without explicitly violating their tax pledge, and still use the debt ceiling for another round of fiscal-cliff negotiations.

Of course, the Senate might not pass such a bill without any other issues addressed in it.  That, however, puts the onus on Harry Reid, who would then be seen as the man holding the middle class hostage to get his wish list passed.  That’s also true if House Democrats surprise the GOP and fail to vote for the bill if Boehner has his caucus vote “present.”    Obama would almost have to sign such a bill if it passed out of Congress, given his own rhetoric about Republican hostage-taking and the middle-class tax rates — but why not have Republicans force that issue by voting in favor of it?

The true doomsday option, other than flying off the fiscal cliff like Thelma and Louise, would be to pass Obama’s latest offer through a House vote where Republicans vote “present.”  The negative impact those policies have on the economy would be completely owned by Obama and Democrats.  That would create a lot of pain and economic damage that could be mitigated by good-faith negotiation between the parties, but if Democrats refuse to engage in such, then the political options are all that remain for the GOP.


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SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:13 PM

British ‘tactics’ consisted of marching in big obvious lines, while wearing uniforms that made them literally a walking bullseye. Their weapon was a single-shot rifle that took a minute to reload, and so heinously inaccurate they had to fire in massed volleys. Air power was so nonexistent that using hot air balloons as observers hadn’t been tried yet.

The opposition you’ll face has NONE of those disadvantages.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:22 PM

I guess you never learned a damned thing from Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan.

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:25 PM

If only we could get entitlement reform.

Maybe, just maybe, the Republicans will use the Debt ceiling to get that?

I dunno, do I have this right?

DeathtotheSwiss on December 3, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I think you’re right. “Tax the rich” has been their central focus for the last 2 years and is taking all the oxygen out of the room on entitlement reform. With that distraction off the table and the debt ceiling still in our back pocket, we might be able to force his hand. Or, at least force him to unilaterally circumvent the debt ceiling and take him to court.

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 12:26 PM

I don’t know why people are so upset at the GOP for doing this. America elected Democrats in 2012. And sometimes you tell people over and over again not to do something, and they’ll do it until they get hurt.

Well, here comes the hurt.

Nethicus on December 3, 2012 at 12:26 PM

GOP should vote clearly against raised taxes and more spending. Only way out of this.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Voting “present” shows at least an intent to disagree with a class split on taxes. Voting “yes” on only middle class tax rates shows an implicit agreement with the total package including higher rates for some but not others. Voting “present” is a sound approach to this problem.

rplat on December 3, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Vote on two separate bills, one to extend the highest bracket and the other to extend all other brackets

That way no one violates their pledge, but Obama can’t say the GOP raised anyone’s taxes to help the rich.

In fact, vote to make the rates permanent and force Obama/Reid to explain why they are willing to let lower tax rates increase.

Obama will let the highest tax rate go up, and he will own the resulting recession since it’s exactly what he claims to want.

commodore on December 3, 2012 at 12:29 PM

September 20, 2012
Why does Homeland Security need 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition?

That was Social Security dept. Learn reading comprehension.

Besides, as someone already corrected you above, you really have no idea how well armed the citizens are. And getting better armed daily, store shelves empty out the minute they are re-stocked.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 12:17 PM

You were saying?

As for all the armed citizens: When they come as 1000 man well trained crew to your small town or farm house, and can see you through the walls, and can shoot you long before you see them. All those arms are for no good.

So, unless you have a mile wide perimeter, which is watched with a high level sophisticated enemy detection system (visual, thermal, EM) and a high powered sniper rifle that has a range longer than theirs as well as a missile defense system when they decide to rain hell on your house from a drone, I just do not see you winning the fight.

You might be right. Maybe there are millions of people that well prepared. On the other hand, I think the number of people that well prepared are few and far between and already listed as first to go…

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:30 PM

GOP “doomsday” plan: vote “present” on middle-class tax rate extension

That’s their “plan”???! LOL
Pure idiocy, but I have come to expect nothing less from Boehner & Co.

Do you really think some voter down the road will think “well, the House GOP voted present on the fiscal cliff, so this is obviously Obama’s fault”??

Of course not. THe MSM will make sure the GOP takes the full blame of any negative outcome and it will stay that way forever. Look at the 1930s; FDR & the Dems ran the US economy into the ground with 12 years of horrific economic policy, yet the history books put the plame on Hoover and the GOP. Deja Vu.

Only hope is to try and prevent as much damage as possible, but the outcome is sadly a done deal after the insanely idiotic Debt Deal that Boehner & and the GOP Establisment pushed through in 2011.

Norwegian on December 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

When they come as 1000 man well trained crew to your small town or farm house, and can see you through the walls, and can shoot you long before you see them. All those arms are for no good.

So, unless you have a mile wide perimeter, which is watched with a high level sophisticated enemy detection system (visual, thermal, EM) and a high powered sniper rifle that has a range longer than theirs as well as a missile defense system when they decide to rain hell on your house from a drone, I just do not see you winning the fight.

You might be right. Maybe there are millions of people that well prepared. On the other hand, I think the number of people that well prepared are few and far between and already listed as first to go…

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Tell me exactly how well that is working in Afghanistan, or how it worked in Iraq?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Ammend the senate bill to continue some current tax rates to include a couple IN YOUR FACE bUFFET RULES WHICH WILL BE POPULAR WITH WILL BE POPULAR WITH OBAMA’S BASE. My suggestions for consideration are to make capital gain rates for exceptionally wealthy people payable when an asset is sold, not allowing turn over into other assets without paying taxes, and to change inheritance taxes to be based upon cost of previously turned over assets to be based on initial asset cost.

burt on December 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:30 PM

It was probably both.

Cindy Munford on December 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM

I mentioned last week that Republicans had one option to extricate themselves politically from a collapse of the fiscal-cliff talks, which was to just give Obama a House vote on exactly he wants — and then vote “present” to allow it to pass.

A plan Obama would love. Wait I bet he is the author of it.

GOP the S T U P I D Party.

2010 proved conservatism works every time. But no no no. Let us just play dead and let Obama win.

Idiots.

Steveangell on December 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM

The GOPe are cowards. Vote to keep the middle class sign your john hannock on the bill. Give the POTUS NOTHING else. take the tax hikes off the table for 98% of the voters and non voters in the country. Then if they really believe that tax hikes =on the wealthy will cause a recession stand by your principles and step back and watch as the tax hikes on the 2% push us into a recesssion then by God make the dems own it. lock stock and barrel and finally bury this argument forever. Show that even with 98% of the people paying no new taxes those new taxes on the 2% is enough to cause the recession (and if they were really serious about it they would vote less spending as the GDP numbers would come out negative as soon as the federal spending is cut). Then come back and say NOW will you listen and extend the tax cuts retractively.

And if Obama doesn’t cave at that point run all out in 2014 on it. change the senate and house to GOp hands and make Obama a lame duck POTUS

unseen on December 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Hah, the joke’s on you, AmeriKa!

Schadenfreude on December 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Tell me exactly how well that is working in Afghanistan, or how it worked in Iraq?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Works really well when you do it right.

Anyone notice how nuclear Romney was willing to be against Republicans in the Primary?

Anyone notice how kid gloves he was in the General?

Same rule applies.

We had no problem clearing out Iraq when we got to the point that we wanted to do it and to hell with the civilian casualties. Never seems to work when you go in trying to win hearts and minds.

Do you think the people of the left are going to go in trying to win hearts and minds if it comes right down to it? Remember Lincoln’s March to the Sea?

My point is, you are not going to win a shooting war with Obama. Maybe your children will decades into the future…

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM

I guess you never learned a damned thing from Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan.

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:25 PM

You mean the Iraq or Afghanistan where we quit doing anything worthy of the name “war” basically right after we overran their puny standing army?

You mean the Vietnam where the entire home front was in social upheaval?

2 out of 3 of your examples are invalid, the other is questionable. And you still don’t see that you’re focusing on the handful of examples where the great mighty force didn’t have an overwhelming victory. Take a look through history books and see that 95% of the time, the brave little revolutionaries not only lost but suffered hideous fates afterwards.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:39 PM

It was probably both.

Cindy Munford on December 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM

There are many agencies that now have swat teams that never did before. Social Security is one of them…

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM

“You don’t take a hostage you aren’t willing to shoot.”

Idiot. Now the Dems get to use their preferred tactic of screeching about civility, and avoid discussing the substance of the issue.

Mr. Prodigy on December 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM

You might be right. Maybe there are millions of people that well prepared. On the other hand, I think the number of people that well prepared are few and far between and already listed as first to go…

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:30 PM

yeah because all the army will be on the gov erment’s side like back in 1860/// If it happens the nation including the army will be split including the arms.

unseen on December 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Vote on two separate bills, one to extend the highest bracket and the other to extend all other brackets

That way no one violates their pledge, but Obama can’t say the GOP raised anyone’s taxes to help the rich.

In fact, vote to make the rates permanent and force Obama/Reid to explain why they are willing to let lower tax rates increase.

Obama will let the highest tax rate go up, and he will own the resulting recession since it’s exactly what he claims to want.

commodore on December 3, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Good, except the Democrat controlled Senate would hold and not act on the bill to extend or raise the rates on the highest tax brackets and therefore, it would never come to a vote. Having only one bill to extend tax cuts for the middle class will allow the remainder of the Bush tax cuts to expire and rates for the “rich” will go up without any further action and, this is the scenario favored by the Democrats.

rplat on December 3, 2012 at 12:41 PM

We had no problem clearing out Iraq when we got to the point that we wanted to do it and to hell with the civilian casualties. Never seems to work when you go in trying to win hearts and minds.

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Exactly. We’re putting the cart before the camel and, surprise surprise, it’s not working. The time to win hearts and minds is AFTER you have convinced the populace that resistance is not only futile but is a guarantee you won’t live much long.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Is that what you want? Because that’s what you’re advocating for right now.

PetecminMd

Your hand-wringing is duly noted.

darwin. There was a whole thread about this over the weekend. SB as an alternative. Much better than the deal they’re going to get and they can still hold the debt ceiling hostage.

Illinidiva

SB sucks. And I can only laugh at your “hold the debt limit hostage” comment. The last time we had that option, our side went along with the sequestration deal that is now hanging over our heads, lol.

The negative impact those policies have on the economy would be completely owned by Obama and Democrats.

You mean the way they were completely owned by dems in the last election that led to Romney winning in a landslide? Oh….wait.

Pres Obama may create this mess, but he will not own it.
.
Not unless we make him. If we can.

LincolntheHun

Come on, if we just cave again, this time Obama will magically get the blame. You know, kinda like if we just go back to the Clinton tax rates, the economy will magically take off, and prosperity will be had by all.

xblade on December 3, 2012 at 12:43 PM

We had no problem clearing out Iraq

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM

And who exactly is running Iraq today? How about Afghanistan? Do you honestly think that 100 percent of the Military or the Police will agree to employ those tactics on their fellow Americans?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:43 PM

And who exactly is running Iraq today? How about Afghanistan?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:43 PM

You still haven’t noticed that we’ve refused to actually fight a war in either place!

I’ll give you this much: if the feds fight you with the same penny-ante mentality that they do Islam, you’ve got a serious chance.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM

I don’t know why people are so upset at the GOP for doing this. America elected Democrats in 2012. And sometimes you tell people over and over again not to do something, and they’ll do it until they get hurt.

Well, here comes the hurt.

Nethicus on December 3, 2012 at 12:26 PM

+1. Many parents remember trying to teach their child not to touch things that were hot. This is no different.

And I always sort of wondered about our Julias’ average age.

Looks like it’s two.

rogerb on December 3, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Take a look through history books and see that 95% of the time, the brave little revolutionaries not only lost but suffered hideous fates afterwards.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:39 PM

you might want to look at history and see how many nations today owe their present governments to those revolutionaires. From the USA, Britian, China, Vietnam, France Russia Ukrane, Baltics to name just a few of them. the fact of the matter is the founding fathers were correct when they wrote in the declaration what is required for a successfull attempt:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

and when those requirements are met the success rate fo those attempts grow expotentially.

unseen on December 3, 2012 at 12:47 PM

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Well someone has to keep the oldsters in line.

Cindy Munford on December 3, 2012 at 12:48 PM

I guess if it is all going to hell, I want all the taxbrackets going to hell so that the snobs on the bottom who don’t pay taxes and want to say how the money is spent have to wait…10 or 12 months for Obama to get his act together to set the tax rate for 2013. For god’s sake they do it with US, with the AMT every year…never knowing if they are really going to patch it. I want to see the 47% have the money taken out of their wages, they voted for the Obdurate in Chief. He doesn’t have a budget. He is spending more than he has. He wants to increase spending in a time of decreasing revenues.

Then, we can say no to the debt cieling too.

How long is it until 2014, can someone get some senators in their so we can pass what we want and get a veto proof majority?

I can hold my breath for two more years. Shut this thing down.

Fleuries on December 3, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Let’s hope that if everyone’s taxes get raised the GOP will at least be smart enough to answer accusations of “holding the mc hostage” with “So you’re finally admitting the Bush Tax Cuts were for the mc too?” But, they probably won’t be.

txhsmom on December 3, 2012 at 12:49 PM

I honestly think the GOP should let Obama and the Dems fulfill their supposed “mandate” by agreeing to vote PRESENT on everything they want with two stipulations:

1) they include in the bill that every congressman, senator and federal department head be audited by the IRS every single year they serve (and have their tax returns made public)

2) they make Obama and the Dems pledge, as part of the bill, that they – and they alone – OWN consequences.

Do it!!!

Logic on December 3, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Only hope is to try and prevent as much damage as possible, but the outcome is sadly a done deal after the insanely idiotic Debt Deal that Boehner & and the GOP Establisment pushed through in 2011.

Norwegian on December 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

The sequestration deal was done under the assumption that Americans wouldn’t be so stupid as to reelect the architect of their misery – so much for that.

Look, we got our bells rung over political gimmickry, the biggest gimmick being tax hikes on the rich. We can either let them continue to use them as an excuse for Obama’s failures, or we let him use the bully pulpit for say their taxes are higher because we refused to relent on those rates. It’s really pretty simple. Let him own it all.

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 12:50 PM

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:43 PM

You still haven’t noticed that we’ve refused to actually fight a war in either place!

I’ll give you this much: if the feds fight you with the same penny-ante mentality that they do Islam, you’ve got a serious chance.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM

And you still refuse to grasp that we are talking about the Feds fighting their own brothers and sisters. We won’t even use the tactics you are suggesting against a foreign nation, what makes you think they would use them against American Citizens?

Keep in mind Iraq only has a population of 35 million and Afghanistan of 32 million, not 300 million. There are 285 million guns in America and that number is going up every day. There are 80 million gun owners in America, yea, 80,000,000. That’s more gun owners in America than the combined populations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Good, except the Democrat controlled Senate would hold and not act on the bill to extend or raise the rates on the highest tax brackets and therefore, it would never come to a vote. Having only one bill to extend tax cuts for the middle class will allow the remainder of the Bush tax cuts to expire and rates for the “rich” will go up without any further action and, this is the scenario favored by the Democrats.

rplat on December 3, 2012 at 12:41 PM

So what?

Seriously if what we believe is correct and raising tax rates on the welathy the producers in this country will cause a rescession that so what if the dems “get what they want” If the GOpe really believes in all they have campaigned on over the last 30 years and that conservatives are correct isn’t it time we allow our beliefs to be tested. Isn’t it time we put up or shut up. Give the dems what they want. Allow the bush tax cuts on the producers to expire. Keep the tax cuts on the middle class and then when the dem induced recession hits and millions are out of work place the blame where it belongs. this is how you win landlsides by allowing the failed policies of the tax and spenders in the democarte party to be seen for what they are with real world consquences.

unseen on December 3, 2012 at 12:54 PM

Voting PRESENT is perfect. What can Obama and the democrats say? Just following his example — he should be flattered.

indychick on December 3, 2012 at 12:54 PM

Let all the rates go to Clinton levels.

Let the middle and lower classes see how much Obama really hates them.

Fools, the Obamas ‘love’ you.

Schadenfreude on December 3, 2012 at 12:55 PM

I pressed the wrong button on my earlier comment sending it before completion. In addition to the typos, I wanted to add a couple of other thoughts.

I think the in your face rules would be very hard for Democrats to refuse esspecially when paired with a tax cut for most people. It would be nice to have rules passed which would go after people like Buffet, who uses slight of hand to side with the Democrats to keep his taxes low.

Incidently, I don’t approve of either captial gains taxes on stocks which have already been taxed or on inheritance taxes.

burt on December 3, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Idiot. Now the Dems get to use their preferred tactic of screeching about civility, and avoid discussing the substance of the issue.

Mr. Prodigy on December 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Fluke them, in a very bad way, until they bleed, starve, go out, miserably, in the dark/cold.

Starve the Looters.

p.s. don’t fight thuggish charlatans with silky gloves; look what it brung Romney.

Schadenfreude on December 3, 2012 at 12:57 PM

The feedback loop throughout American society is broken. Americans want to make a wide range of decisions, and have someone else deal with the negative outcomes. Fundamentally, people have no opportunities to learn when they are shielded from their own decisions regardless if the outcomes benefit them or hurt them.

You can see this in American society as Americans like the government benefits, but do not want to pay the taxes to receive those benefits. No wonder ‘taxing the rich’ is so popular-they can pay higher income tax, and others get the benefits. This is why enacting a flat tax or an alternative income tax that requires a relationship between electoral preferences, spending and the requisite taxation is so crucial. Americans can order everything off of the menu, but should have to pay their own bill and not send it to the person who they think can afford it.

However, the GOP does this-they need to let the American people experience their decision.

sDs61678 on December 3, 2012 at 12:58 PM

If America wants a big govt, then everyone has to pay for it (not just the rich).

All tax rates must go up.

For every dollar, then that we want to reduce taxes, we have to reduce spending.

Easy-peezy.

Deafdog on December 3, 2012 at 12:59 PM

I think you’re right. “Tax the rich” has been their central focus for the last 2 years and is taking all the oxygen out of the room on entitlement reform. With that distraction off the table and the debt ceiling still in our back pocket, we might be able to force his hand. Or, at least force him to unilaterally circumvent the debt ceiling and take him to court.

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 12:26 PM

It all depends on how much courage the Republicans can muster about the potential backlash they’ll get. That said…caving on taxesis the one thing they can sell to the general electorate.

“Look, we raised taxes on the rich and lowered them for the middle class. Now look at the Democrats who are raising your taxes with Obamacare!!!”

It loses ground, obviously, but might gain some as far as winning the argument. The reality is higher taxes and increased regulations on the rich and business inhibit growth (as most of us know). If we can demonstrate that to the American people while avoiding as much damage to the core structure of the country as possible I’m all for it. I worry deeply about the cuts to the Military though.

I guess the Republicans could take a page from President Obama and credit their decision not to go to war with Iran as a way to save $500 Billion dollars right off the bat. They could turn around and tout their $8 billion dollar surplus from military cuts. See Democrat math is fun!

DeathtotheSwiss on December 3, 2012 at 1:02 PM

So wait…are the Democrats now pushing Bush’s tax rates (what they called “tax cuts for the rich” since 2001) as something they want to continue? Didn’t they argue that the tax cuts were ONLY for the rich (yes, they did).

Because that means they’ve been lying to the American public for over 10 years on what those tax rates actually were and who they affected.

LOL – Democrats are now actually saying that we need to keep Bush’s tax rates in place (ie, preserve the Bush tax cuts) for the middle class, even though they’ve been pretending those tax cuts never existed in the first place.

How’s that for ironic?

Good Lt on December 3, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Keep in mind Iraq only has a population of 35 million and Afghanistan of 32 million, not 300 million. There are 285 million guns in America and that number is going up every day. There are 80 million gun owners in America, yea, 80,000,000. That’s more gun owners in America than the combined populations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:52 PM

either way it will be bloody with much death so before we go down that route we better make dam sure that what we have today can’t be saved at the ballot box.

imo the vote fraud will be the undoing of the republic atm many of the majority still believes in the process and therefore any attempt at overthrow will not be supported by the general population. Once that changes all bets are off.

unseen on December 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:52 PM

either way it will be bloody with much death so before we go down that route we better make dam sure that what we have today can’t be saved at the ballot box.

imo the vote fraud will be the undoing of the republic atm many of the majority still believes in the process and therefore any attempt at overthrow will not be supported by the general population. Once that changes all bets are off.

unseen on December 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM

I believe that a very large segment of the population already believe that the voter fraud rate has passed the tipping point, which is why we are hearing so many calls to “Let it Burn”. I also believe that if we are really ready willing and able to “Let it Burn” that we need to have a very serious conversation on exactly what “Let it Burn” means.

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 1:08 PM

If Republicans don’t vote to increase the debt limit, the Democrats will proceed as if there isn’t one…count on that. Laws are only enforced against their enemies.

cajunpatriot on December 3, 2012 at 1:09 PM

So wait…are the Democrats now pushing Bush’s tax rates (what they called “tax cuts for the rich” since 2001) as something they want to continue? Didn’t they argue that the tax cuts were ONLY for the rich (yes, they did).

Good Lt on December 3, 2012 at 1:02 PM

These people are corrupt to the core. I wish we could just send all of them to the moon, I really do.

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:09 PM

That would create a lot of pain and economic damage that could be mitigated by good-faith negotiation between the parties

Obamessiah and the Dems have not engaged in any “good-faith” negotiations for almost four years. Except for losing the House, they have gotten away with it. Among other things, they got away ramming Obamacare down everyone’s throats, including those who opposed it in their own party. So why should they start now? It is almost two years to the next election and the electorate has the attention span of a gnat. It can’t do basic math much better either.

farsighted on December 3, 2012 at 1:10 PM

If America wants a big govt, then everyone has to pay for it (not just the rich).

All tax rates must go up.

For every dollar, then that we want to reduce taxes, we have to reduce spending.

Easy-peezy.

Deafdog on December 3, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Wrong.

Math is a Rethuglikkkan conspiracy.

Good Lt on December 3, 2012 at 1:13 PM

I wish we could just send all of them to the moon, I really do.

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:09 PM

What did the moon ever do to you for you to hate it so? How about we just put them on a rocket-ship and fire them straight into the sun?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 1:14 PM

It’s time for the American People to begin paying for the big government they consistently vote for. Raise taxes on everyone.

EddieC on December 3, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Uh, am I missing something here? Obama’s already given any number of speeches saying, “Let’s extend the middle class tax cuts now; pass the bill and I’ll sign it.”

Now, that’s the Republican’s brilliant strategy?

Wow. Way to hold Obama’s feet to the fire. Congratulations.

IndieDogg on December 3, 2012 at 1:18 PM

Now, that’s the Republican’s brilliant strategy?

IndieDogg on December 3, 2012 at 1:18 PM

Eff those thieves, I wanna know what conservatives’ brilliant strategy is, unless we’re ALL down to L.I.B.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 1:23 PM

blink on December 3, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Do they know that though? I imagine many of them do. How many are too ignorant to see their own destruction though?

DeathtotheSwiss on December 3, 2012 at 1:23 PM

I personally think that this is the only way in which votes should be cast. One issue, One vote. This keeps congress accountable. I would like to see it made a constitutional amendment. Something that limits the size of bills and how many issues may be addressed in one vote.

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Yep. That way no more idiotic things added in so that the opposition votes against it and then gets blamed because no one notices all the idiotic added things.

Then again, what would government do with itself if it dealt with the public in a rational, honest, straight-forward manner?

kim roy on December 3, 2012 at 1:24 PM

Obama’s already given any number of speeches saying, “Let’s extend the middle class tax cuts now; pass the bill and I’ll sign it.”

Now, that’s the Republican’s brilliant strategy?
IndieDogg on December 3, 2012 at 1:18 PM

The Obama cro-magnon reelection coalition thinks wealth redistribution = prosperity. How do you propose we break through to these morons until we take this issue off the table?

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:25 PM

“With no deal in place, we go over the cliff, which means tax cuts expire, sequestration kicks in, and we go into a nice deep recession.” — PetecminMd

Pete, WAKE THE H@LL UP!

The whole ‘Fiscal Cliff’ issue, as INCORRECTLY described by the media, is a discussion on TAXATION – that is ALL! We have ALREADY GONE OVER the REAL ‘FISCAL CLIFF’! The REAL ‘Fiscal Cliff’ was passing the $16.3 TRILLION Deficit Mark, an amount the CBO calls ‘UN-SUSTAINABLE’. The REAL ‘Fiscal Cliff’ was the U.S. Credit rating being DOWNGRADED a 2nd (SECOND TIME). The REAL ‘Fiscal Cliff’ was the majority of IGNORANT Americans who voted to keep suckling off the Big Government teat in this past election, not understanding anything about economy.

Obama actually has these IGNORANT people believing in his plan to raise taxes to produce $1.6 Trillion in new revenue over the next 10 (TEN) TEARS…while he is adding an average $1.2 Trillion in new/additional debt EVERY YEAR HE IS IN OFFICE. DO THE D@MN MATH, PETE: $1.6 Trillion in ‘SURPLUS REVENUE’ (which of course he will use to pay down the deficit, right?!) versus ANOTHER $6 Trillion in new debt in his 2nd term, which matches his approx $6 Trillion in new debt after his 1st 4 years! That, BTW, is 12 TRILLION in new debt added by 1 (ONE) President! The math doesn’t add up, proving Obama IS not only from this country but is a product of our Public School system!

The man wants to create $1.6 Trillion in new revenue to reduce the deficit…WHILE DEMANDING AN END TO THE DEBT CEILING! That alone proves he has no intention of paying down the deficit…which is why he rejects ALL SPENDING CUTS, his plan calls for 5 Billion in New Stimulus Spending. $6 Trillion in 4 years is more than almost every U.S. President in our history COMBINED…& selfish, ignorant Americans – in order to keep getting a check – just gave him a license to add another $6 Trillion…’finishing off’ this nation!

We have already gone over the cliff. This Tax discussion is just a battle on how quickly the nation will collapse. WAKE THE H@LL UP!

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 1:25 PM

Eff those thieves, I wanna know what conservatives’ brilliant strategy is, unless we’re ALL down to L.I.B.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 1:23 PM

I think the cunning plan is to prepare, sit back and wait for the collapse, which pretty much is just LIB.

kim roy on December 3, 2012 at 1:25 PM

No. The way to win a game of chicken is to not blink. Enough with the stupidity.

Make the Democrats the party of tax increases again. Instead pass what you want (with compromises that exclude taxes) in the House. Yes, Obama will try to blame Repbulicans, but you come back with this is Obama’s desire all along (point to the other taxes he has raised), and the House passed a bill extending tax cuts for everyone. If Obama and Reid dont like it, they will sit on their hands.

But then you win the argument by passing the same bill over and over again, on a daily basis, after we hit the cliff. And Democrats will be hard-pressed to respond. And their position will become more tenuous after people start losing jobs and having their taxes increased.

The problem is not, was not, and wont be taxes. The problem is spending and the 47% not paying their fair share.

milcus on December 3, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Tell me exactly how well that is working in Afghanistan, or how it worked in Iraq?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Works really well when you do it right.

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Right… Just like Napoleon and Hitler losing in Russia. Not due to Russian military, which was pretty bad at the time of invasions, but due to the guerilla/partisans exacting serious damage on invaders. With hunting rifles. Both armies could not fight the two fronts. No one can.

Look at Afghanistan and let me know how we’re “winning” that war. Our military is lying to us. And themselves.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Go to http://www.irs.gov/file_source/pub/irs-soi/09in05tr.xls
Open the file.
Go to cell F206
That cell shows that in 2009 (the most recent year for which such data is publicly available), the top 10% of returns (based on income size) paid 70.47% of the total income tax.

Back in 2001 (before the Bush Tax Cuts), the top 10% paid 64.89% of the total income tax.

So, while the Bush Tax Cuts lowered tax rates for everyone who paid income tax, the Bush Tax Cuts actually INCREASED the percentage of the total tax paid by the top 10%.

Now, Obama wants to keep the Bush rates the same for everyone EXCEPT the top, and make them pay an even greater percentage of the total income tax.

When the middle class gets a tax cut, they aren’t likely to use that money to go create a job for someone else. The top 10%, though, frequently do create more jobs when their taxes rates go down. After the second part of the Bush Tax Cuts were passed in 2003, employment improved. Raising rates on the top 10% now is likely to do just the opposite, and result in more jobs being lost.

ITguy on December 3, 2012 at 1:30 PM

That, however, puts the onus on Harry Reid, who would then be seen as the man holding the middle class hostage to get his wish list passed.

Seriously though, when has the “onus” ever fallen upon Harry Reid? The little pipsqueak has gotten away with virtually every stunt he’s ever tried to pull.

scalleywag on December 3, 2012 at 1:30 PM

I really wish the Republicans would produce a bill as if Reagan was in office. All the cuts to tax rates, government spending, regulations, every conservative priority for the last 50 years. Put it all in. And say, here’s our plan. Veto it.
Why should we let this fake crisis ramrod us into stupidity. Why don’t we use the crisis to stampede Obama and the libs our way.

Why is it so hard for Republicans to say, “The government takes in 2 trillion a year from its citizens. It spends 3.5 trillion. Its not sustainable. We’re going to end it now.”

Iblis on December 3, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Middle income tax extension is a lot of “Bull”.

All I have for income is the Wife and My SSI (deduct $200/month for medicare even though I’m retired military with full benefits) If I wish to opout of medicare I must forfite all SSI combined benefits of nearly $1,800/month, a VA disability check of $127/month (they deduct it from my) $1400/month military pension and two part time jobs. Not a lot of money but it is above poverty level.

In 2011 we had a foreclosure on our house. Lost it all, even everything inside. The bank issued a 1099 for debt forgiven which is taxable as capital gains even though I lost all, got nothing from it.
My tax owed for 2011 is actually greater than my gross income for 2011.

Go figure who is really getting screwed.

In this same time period there were nearly 18,000,000 Americans, mostly lower and middle incomes in the same spot. These 18,000,000 are also out of the market for 2-7 years even if they were the victims. The Federal Government considers them similar to bankruptcy. There are currently 17 Major Banks under investigation or have settled for fraudulent foreclosures. They are being bailed out with our taxes paid while “We The People” on the bottom pay for their frauds.

In the mean time our out of touch self serving Exulted Ones debate an insignificant tax rate just for looks.

jpcpt03 on December 3, 2012 at 1:31 PM

I mentioned last week that Republicans had one option to extricate themselves politically from a collapse of the fiscal-cliff talks, which was to just give Obama a House vote on exactly he wants — and then vote “present” to allow it to pass.

Ok, I like it, but let’s not pretend the GOP won’t be politically blamed anyway. It’s not that hard to imagine the following talking point spewing from the left/media/et al:

“If the Republicans had tried to help, this crisis – the 15% unemployment, the gas shortages, rampant inflation, stock market crash, devaluation of the dollar, hospitals closing, elderly dying due to lack of care – all of it could’ve been averted if the Republicans had even *tried* to help, but no – they’re so un-American, they just sat there and watched – voted ‘present’ – and wouldn’t lift a finger. But thank goodness for Obama and the Democrats – without their heroic and patriotic efforts, all of this – including the burning cities you see behind me – would’ve obviously been much, much, worse. Let me quote you the latest CBO figures on jobs saved, foreclosures averted, and condoms distributed, all showing what a great job the Democrats are doing in spite of Republican intransigence…”

If you can’t imagine that, you’re not paying attention.

Midas on December 3, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Will Rogers said: There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

We’re already over the cliff, suspended in mid-air like Wile E Coyote. The only unknown is when we will actually hit the valley floor. We need to accept that and prepare ourselves mentally for what is to come, and pray that we can rebuild this country after the impact.

fastphil101 on December 3, 2012 at 1:37 PM

WHAT ABOUT THE MORAL, ETHICAL, CONSTITUTIONAL CLIFF?

Obama has violated the U.S. Constitution NUMEROUS TIMES:
- His prolonged Libyan War without Congressional approval violated the Constitution/War Powers Act – no consequences. His Obamacare mandate violates religeous Constitutional Rights – no consequences.

His administration has BROKEN THE LAW numerous times:
- Fast & Furious: 3 counts of Felonious Perjury by the Attorney General, a refusal by the Justice Department to prosecute, over 300 people – including an American citizen – dead — No Consequences. Obama stripped the pensions of 20,000 NON-Union auto workers simply because they didn’t belong to unions…and then committed Felonious Perjury before Congress again to hide it.

His administration REFUSED to protect 4 Americans after 2 previous terrorist attacks, ordered military rescue teams to ‘Stand down’ during the 7-hour 3rd attack that resulted in those Americans’ death (to include the 1st Ambassador in 3 decades), changed CIA Reports, Lied to Americans, & postponed details/discussion about it all until after the election. There is still no outrage, no media, & no consequences!

We have already gone over the moral, ethical, & Constitutional ‘Cliff’ but there is no outrage because we are only concerned about our wallet / money! Good grief! This nation is going down in FLAMES – we are the Roman Empire in its last days!

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Eff those thieves, I wanna know what conservatives’ brilliant strategy is, unless we’re ALL down to L.I.B.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 1:23 PM

I would think that you would love the idea of “Let it Burn” since it is basically the idea of allowing Obama and company to spend as much as they want and raise taxes as much as they want.

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 1:41 PM

Take a look through history books and see that 95% of the time, the brave little revolutionaries not only lost but suffered hideous fates afterwards.

MelonCollie on December 3, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Yeah, but that last 5% as you describe it, resulted in this country for one example……….

Tenwheeler on December 3, 2012 at 1:43 PM

On the other hand, I’d write up a bill that – like Obamacare – calls out some special classes of folks and businesses for additional taxes, explicitly:

– politicians – 91%
– journalists – 91%
– lawyers – 91%
– newspapers, television networks, magazines (80% off the top, pre-expenses)
– the movie industry (50% off the top, pre-expenses)
– the music industry (50% off the top, pre-expenses)
– the professional sports industry (50% off the top, pre-expenses)

… for a start…

Midas on December 3, 2012 at 1:43 PM

“If the Republicans had tried to help…Republican intransigence…”

If you can’t imagine that, you’re not paying attention.

Midas on December 3, 2012 at 1:33 PM

You need to stop thinking like a rational voter and put yourself in the mindset of a Honey Boo Boo watching, mouth-breathing Obama voter.

“Obama wanted his tax increases on the rich. We warned they were harmful, but we let him make his own mistake. The economy is now worse. We were right.”

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:44 PM

You need to stop thinking like a rational voter and put yourself in the mindset of a Honey Boo Boo watching, mouth-breathing Obama voter.

“Obama wanted his tax increases on the rich. We warned they were harmful, but we let him make his own mistake. The economy is now worse. We were right.”

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Why, because that’s worked so well so far? Seriously? Who’s going to help communicate that “we were right” message that wasn’t busy promoting the “yeah, it’s hosed up, but it’s not Obama’s fault, he’s awesome!” message at this last election? You think the ‘honey boo boo’ voters are going to here anything it the GOP being ‘right’ and Obama being ‘wrong’?

Midas on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Obama admin “logic” says…

Clinton era tax rates on the “wealthy” — good.

Clinton era tax rates on everyone else — bad.

Trillion plus dollar deficits as far as the eye can see — unimportant and irrelevant.

Increased taxes on the “wealthy” that reduce trillion plus dollar deficits by 5-10% — critically important.

We are being governed by overgrown adolescents who are out of touch with reality, by righteous class warfare warriors, and by radical socialists who want to destroy property rights, free enterprise, and capitalism in the US.

farsighted on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Being a Veteran & having spent my whole life defending the Constitution & this country from douche-bags abroad who want/wanted to do exactly what this administration & our elected officials are doing now – destroying this nation, I have severe ‘heartburn’ with the idea of ‘Let It burn’. I believe, however – as I have said, we have gone over both the ‘Fiscal Cliff’ as well as the more important ‘Moral, Ethical, Constitutional Cliff’. It may be inevitable, as I do not see a way to reverse course, especially since the Head American Douche-bag was just re-elected for another 4 years, a period which doesn’t even start for a few more weeks.

Reading the news today, while the country teeters on the ‘taxation’ cliff, it is ‘nice’ to see the Obama’s living in such luxury – 54 decorated Christmas Trees (twice that of lat year) & prepping for a 30-day $4 Million vacation in Hawaii! Perhaps someone should tell the DOUCHE-BAG that since the rest of the US is suffering & we are balancing on that cliff maybe he should curb his flaunting of the spending our tax dollars / deficit dollars?! Just a thought….

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM

It’s quite simple: House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more: no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes.

If the House passes a bill already passed by the Senate, during the same session of Congress, then it can go straight to Obama’s desk for signature or veto. Republicans should vote FOR the bill, without taking the risk that Democrats try to block the bill by voting against it or “present”, since minority Democrats can’t block anything in the House if Republicans vote unanimously for it.

Obama would have a tough time vetoing a bill that preserves tax cuts on the middle class, with the risk that if no agreement is reached, middle-class taxes (and withholding) rise in January, and middle-income people start blaming Obama for the tax hike, which he was careful to hide from low-information voters during his campaign.

Then, in 2013, Obama will find out that he can’t raise enough revenue only from the “rich”, and will be forced to negotiate with the new Congress to reduce deficits and debt by cutting spending.

Steve Z on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Right… Just like Napoleon and Hitler losing in Russia. Not due to Russian military, which was pretty bad at the time of invasions, but due to the guerilla/partisans exacting serious damage on invaders. With hunting rifles. Both armies could not fight the two fronts. No one can.

Look at Afghanistan and let me know how we’re “winning” that war. Our military is lying to us. And themselves.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 1:28 PM

They did not fight the war right in Afghanistan. We should have went in and beat the snot out of them until they understood precisely that they had no hope. We should have never made friends with them until everyone laid down their arms. They attacked us first. We had and have every right to retaliate, and to do so asymmetrically.

As for Russia, they could have defeated Russia relatively easily. They should have kept the truce. But instead, they chose to break the truce and in so doing were limited in the duration and men they could use to fight the war. This forced several self inflicted wounds. The first of which was going in during the winter and thus being stuck in the snow and cold, for which the enemy has experience.

I never studied much of Napoleon. I guess I have a blind spot there. My argument to throw yours out the window is the Roman Empire. The ottoman empire. Germany taking the rest Europe with relative ease. The American Indians getting wiped out despite their home advantage.

I do not expect Americans to go down easy. I just do not think we win while Obama is in office. Him and his government paid hacks are going to treat us the way you need to treat the enemy to win. With absolute hatred. Sure many cops will quit, and that just gives the left that much more power. Like losing our best generals, to be replaced by Obama.

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 1:50 PM

“Obama wanted his tax increases on the rich. We warned they were harmful, but we let him make his own mistake. The economy is now worse. We were right.”

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:44 PM

I’m sorry, Congressman, your mic seems to have cut out, and we’re all out of time. Next up, holiday punch recipes from Lindsey Lohan.

DrSteve on December 3, 2012 at 1:50 PM

For every dollar, then that we want to reduce taxes, we have to reduce spending.

Easy-peezy.

Deafdog on December 3, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Your heart’s in the right place but even you don’t get it.

There aren’t enough taxes you can raise to pay for the current spending, much less the 16 trillion extra we owe.

Tenwheeler on December 3, 2012 at 1:51 PM

2010 proved conservatism works every time.

Steveangell on December 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Really? Can you point to all those conservative legislative victories in the last couple of years, please? No?

Yes, conservatism works. The problem is that’s not what a majority of the people want. And no one evidently wants to hold any of our government accountable to the Constitution, so just what are we going to do?

GWB on December 3, 2012 at 1:56 PM

Why, because that’s worked so well so far? Seriously? Who’s going to help communicate that “we were right” message that wasn’t busy promoting the “yeah, it’s hosed up, but it’s not Obama’s fault, he’s awesome!” message at this last election? You think the ‘honey boo boo’ voters are going to here anything it the GOP being ‘right’ and Obama being ‘wrong’?

Midas on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Well, what do you propose? Did you hear Howard Dean? Prog’s love the idea of the cliff – they get to raise everyone’s taxes (claim they only wanted to tax the rich – a lie) and blame us. That is a political dream for them.

I think Boehner should introduce a tax cut bill beyond the Bush rates and make Reid or Obama kill it, which I fully expect they would. Then put Obama’s bill on the floor, untouched, GOP votes present and dare the Rats to vote for his steaming turd.

The Count on December 3, 2012 at 1:58 PM

It’s hard to counsel much beyond despair. I’d love to make Dear Leader explain to America how his “balanced” approach achieved f***-all when it comes to deficit reduction (same thing on the PPACA and deficit reduction), but let’s face it, there’s not enough people interested in holding him accountable for anything to make that happen.

First, we’ll have to bankrupt a few media companies.

DrSteve on December 3, 2012 at 2:02 PM

They did not fight the war right in Afghanistan. We should have went in and beat the snot out of them until they understood precisely that they had no hope. We should have never made friends with them until everyone laid down their arms. They attacked us first. We had and have every right to retaliate, and to do so asymmetrically.

As for Russia, they could have defeated Russia relatively easily. They should have kept the truce. But instead, they chose to break the truce and in so doing were limited in the duration and men they could use to fight the war. This forced several self inflicted wounds. The first of which was going in during the winter and thus being stuck in the snow and cold, for which the enemy has experience.

I never studied much of Napoleon. I guess I have a blind spot there. My argument to throw yours out the window is the Roman Empire. The ottoman empire. Germany taking the rest Europe with relative ease. The American Indians getting wiped out despite their home advantage.

I do not expect Americans to go down easy. I just do not think we win while Obama is in office. Him and his government paid hacks are going to treat us the way you need to treat the enemy to win. With absolute hatred. Sure many cops will quit, and that just gives the left that much more power. Like losing our best generals, to be replaced by Obama.

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 1:50 PM

You’re seriously delusional.

Russian military, which was not constrained by anything, could not win in Afghanistan, and trust me, they did fight the scorched earth campaign. Unlike we’re doing. As someone has recently FINALLY paid attention to and stated on TV, We should have asked Russians or at least examined their failed war before setting foot in Afghanistan or Iraq.

You really need to bone up on your reading, you seem to be lacking in basics. Fins used that same guerilla/partisan hunting rifle strategy against Stalin. Successfully. Yet again.

You seem to claim you are on our side, yet keep repeating same old LSM talking points. Our “brilliant” military leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan have achieved absolutely nothing. Nothing. With great loss of lives for our military.

Reading is good. You should try it sometimes.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Why, because that’s worked so well so far? Seriously? Who’s going to help communicate that “we were right” message that wasn’t busy promoting the “yeah, it’s hosed up, but it’s not Obama’s fault, he’s awesome!” message at this last election? You think the ‘honey boo boo’ voters are going to here anything it the GOP being ‘right’ and Obama being ‘wrong’?

Midas on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM

My point exactly. Any vote of any kind other than a “No” vote would bring cries of “Bipartisan bill” from the non-Fox media. The folks with Obamaphones won’t care anyway, they only hear that Republicans would keep slavery or bring it back or take away their free cheese and rent. The only path Republicans should take is to stand their ground on their principles.

smfic on December 3, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Several different groups & commedians asked voters questions when they came out after voting – Many frighteningly had no idea who the VP was, associated Romney’s ideas with Obama’s, & generally demonstrated they were completely STUPID. I am all for an IQ TEST before anyone can vote. It doesn’t have to be complex – ‘Who is the Vice President’ might suffice…

The majority of Americans proved they are more interested in getting a government check, even if continuing to do so jeopardizes the existence of the nation. Perhaps another idea would be to embrace the idea that if you don’t ay a dime in taxes you don’t get to vote?! Only those who actually CONTRIBUTE should have a say in where the money of those who do work/contribute goes…just an idea…

By all means only U.S. Citizens should be allowed to vote…but seeing how the dead & pets still vote, I don’t think we can put this ‘genie’ back in the bottle. When 141% of voters cast ballots – over 71,000 more votes cast in a critical state district – and it is compltely downplayed – no investigation/consequences, & an election is stolen…the ‘cliff’ is the last thing we need to worry about – it’s the ‘ground’ coming up fast that is the real problem!

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM

No. No. No. Vote present on the $1.6T tax hike, and additional spending. Not this! Or go over the cliff. Good God, these guys are absolute fools.

besser tot als rot on December 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Just give him the damn wealthy tax and through pay as you go (rememba Nancy ) tie the end if the Medicare doc fix extension to it. You gotta pay to play.

can_con on December 3, 2012 at 2:07 PM

Remember when Republics, then a minority in the House, quickly dropped their objections to allowing a vote on a Cheney impeachment or war crimes or something?

blink on December 3, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Mind blown. I don’t remember that at all. Thanks for the “reminder”.

DeathtotheSwiss on December 3, 2012 at 2:07 PM

Voting “No” on the middle class tax rates really makes the GOP the party of tax cuts for the rich instead of low tax rates for all. If you’re going to bring the middle class tax rates (“cuts”) up for a vote, the GOP has to vote “YES.” Beyond stupid.

besser tot als rot on December 3, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Everyone is talking about the $1.6 Trillion in Tax Hikes…

No one is talking about all those taxes buried in Obamacare…Whether the $1.6 Trillion is approved or not, EVERY American will be hit by the taxes in Obamacare…such as a tax on medical devices — from artificial limbs to wheel chairs to shower stools to cains…and there are more taxes buri9ed in the law.

The TRUTH is America’s taxes have already been increased…the question is how many more ways & how much more can Obama tax us?!

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 2:10 PM

Let the Bush Tax Cuts for middle class happen ONLY with GOP voting present or “yes” but NOT allowing a tax hike for the 2% to get embedded. If the Dims insist on the tax hike, go over the cliff. Do NOT allow Owebama control of the Debt Limit. Yes, we know Owe will take it with executive fiat – but then prosecute him for it. If the Supremes agree to give him control of the debt limit, so be it. America as we’ve known and loved for many years died on ll/06/2012.

katablog.com on December 3, 2012 at 2:13 PM

If you taxed everyone making a million dollars at a rate of 100%, taking everything they make, the revenue raised would run the government for approximately 60 days…it would NOT even cover the annual deficit Obama has averaged annually his 1st 4 years in office.

The sad FACT is over half the nation is too STUP1D to understand that, still insists we tax the ‘rich’ at a higher rate, & actually believe this plan will ‘save us’.

The sad FACT is over half the nation is too STUP1D to understand that raiseing taxes in order to generate $1.6 Trillion in new revenue over a 10 year period will barely cover the $1.2 Trillion in new debt Obama adds to the deficit in only 1 year – EVERY YEAR! They are also too STUP1D to understand that if Obama gets his hand on $1.6 Trillion in new tax revenue, he will SPEND IT rather than use it to pay down the debt.

The sad fact is over half the nation is too STUP1D to understand that Obama asking for an end to the debt ceiling means 1) he has no intent on lowering the deficit/debt, that he wants to uncontrollably spend without having to come before the American people to ask for a new debt ceiing increase every time we hit it due to his massive deficit spending. He wants powers our Constitution purposely denies a President for exactly this reason!

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Reading is good. You should try it sometimes.

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Thought you were talking about Germany in Russia… Not Russia in Afghanistan. You should read what I wrote.

As for

You seem to claim you are on our side, yet keep repeating same old LSM talking points. Our “brilliant” military leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan have achieved absolutely nothing. Nothing. With great loss of lives for our military.
riddick on December 3, 2012 at 2:04 PM

I have said the same thing. We have accomplished nothing. Because we are not fighting the war right. They were never brought to the point of capitulation. We went in way too weak, way too few boots on the ground, and let the leadership get away. If you are not willing to fight the war, do not engage in it.

We can destroy Afghanistan, we just do not have the heart to do it. So we will lose there. Iraq was pretty much the same. No heart to win.

You cannot fight a war with winning hearts and minds of people who are culturally your enemy. They might fight on your side when it is in their best interest, but as is the case, once it is no longer in their interest they attack us.

We never promised the Japanese or the Germans we would help rebuild their nations. Until long after the peace treaties were signed. We just simply beat them until they had no desire to resist any more.

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 2:23 PM

“Its your move”. Ok, its time to spend as much time on TV, get before the public 24-7 and put the onus on the President and his knaves for the absolutely ludicrous rhetoric they’ve been spewing.

The dems finally told the truth, hit’em hard, with the facts and forget the theater.

Be sure to include how much we want people to succeed.

Speakup on December 3, 2012 at 2:25 PM

Remember Lincoln’s March to the Sea?
astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM

.
While I appreciate the credit, that was actually Sherman.
Good point anyway.

LincolntheHun on December 3, 2012 at 2:30 PM

Repeat after me: THERE IS NO “FISCAL CLIFF”. Its just a nice play on words from the Chief Azzhole’s machine. Scare tactics. That seem to be working.

We’ve been over the line for the past few years. What with the ObamaCare, ObamaPhones, and whatever else the new entitlement society is used to by now, we’re way past the point of fiscal order. Wait until student loans will be “cancelled out” to the tune of $1 TRILLION, that’s coming next.

Let everything expire and sequestration set in. At least, we’ll slow the spending for a while. Military cuts will be the easiest despite all the cries to the contrary, all we have to do is pull out of Afghanistan, we’re useless there, anyway, even with our so called “brilliant military minds”. As well as Iraq. Done and over with, we’re only wasting American lives there and burning money.

Keep saying No to anything Chief Azzhole asks for in the next 2 years until next election cycle. Hopefully we can take the Senate then.

BTW, anyone hear anything on Benghazi lately? Fast and Furious? Thought so…

“Fiscal cliff” is just 2 words that have no meaning and yet they so successfully distracted most of us. Does anyone really think that those on welfare buying lottery tickets care one bit about “fiscal cliff? Or that they even know what it is or what it means? They just want to make sure that you and I work and pay taxes so that they keep on buying lottery tickets and using their ObamaPhone to check if they won.

47% rules!!!

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 2:31 PM

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Totally agree.

farsighted on December 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM
No, we are not being “governed”. We have been taken over
by those that can vote themselves a welfare/foodstamp
raise out of our pockets. No one is at the helm. There’s
an idiot in the WH and some power hungry socialists passing
laws but they were all put in there by the welfare/foodstamp
crowd who have no desire to ever produce a thing.

jpcpt03 on December 3, 2012 at 1:31 PM
There but for the Grace of God go all of us. However, many of
us didn’t vote for this. Foreclosures are not the bank’s fault,
though the bank bail out WAS their fault along with Dodd Franklin.

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM
Yep. Again, we agree.

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 2:23 PM
Thanks for all the writing you are saving me.

katablog.com on December 3, 2012 at 2:32 PM

“Its your move”. Ok, its time to spend as much time on TV, get before the public 24-7 and put the onus on the President and his knaves for the absolutely ludicrous rhetoric they’ve been spewing.
Speakup on December 3, 2012 at 2:25 PM

.
Our side will be ignored.
That is why we won’t be able to pin this mess on Pres Obama.
Remember the housing collapse? Did you see Barney Frank being dragged away in chains? Or his head on a stick in front of an angry mob?
We will be ignored. The libs will lie, the TV will give them time, and the fools will think the Conservatives were the reason the country collapsed.

LincolntheHun on December 3, 2012 at 2:34 PM

LincolntheHun on December 3, 2012 at 2:30 PM

I knew it was not Grant. Thanks :)

astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 2:37 PM

riddick on December 3, 2012 at 2:31 PM

Yep. Ruled by the 47% and those willing to steal elections. Governed by no one. We dropped off the fiscal cliff long ago and someone cut the tiny thread we were dangling by on 11/06/2012. It’s over folks.

The only thing left is to slow our descent to the canyon below by giving up NOTHING.

katablog.com on December 3, 2012 at 2:38 PM

LincolntheHun on December 3, 2012 at 2:34 PM

This will be true regardless of whether the GOP votes “yes” or “no” on any or all of the Dims wishes. The media already has the script written.

So, what is the point of giving Owebama any more money than we have to? The only answer is to allow the Bush tax cuts for the “middle-class” without bothering to vote “yes” and to vote “no” on anything and everything else.

katablog.com on December 3, 2012 at 2:44 PM

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