Geithner and Carney drawing a fiscal cliff line in the sand?

posted at 5:11 pm on December 3, 2012 by Dustin Siggins

Yesterday, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner laid down one of the few definitive lines in the fiscal cliff discussions: Social Security reform is off the table for reform. In addition to taking more money from taxpayers, this appears to be the other line in the sand for the Obama Administration.

Unfortunately, Geithner, President Obama, and the rest of the crew at the White House are ignoring the fiscal realities facing Social Security – problems that include, but are not limited to, how the program is all but broken, the trust fund will start emptying in 2013, and the program will maybe last another 20 years as it is currently designed. Which means today’s seniors may see some harm, middle-aged Americans will see a lot of harm, and younger Americans will likely face devastatingly higher taxes or benefit cuts.

They’re not just doing it on fiscal policy, either – they’re pulling out all the stops for this deceit. Last week, for example, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Social Security is off the table:

While a potential change in calculating Social Security increases was part of the talks with Speaker John A. Boehner last year, the White House press secretary, Jay Carney, made clear on Monday that the administration was not considering changes to the retirement program as part of the deficit talks.

“We should address the drivers of the deficit, and Social Security is not currently a driver of the deficit,” Mr. Carney said.

Carney’s comments are very intellectually dishonest, and he knows it. Just a couple of years ago, after all, the Administration was happy to include Social Security in the federal budget when the program ran a surplus. As explained by the think tank Just Facts (emphasis added):

During the federal government’s 2010 fiscal year…the national debt rose from $12.0 trillion to $13.6 trillion…

The White House…reported that the 2010 federal “deficit” was $1.3 trillion.

The difference between the national debt increase of $1.6 trillion and the reported deficit of $1.3 trillion is attributable to the following accounting practices:

When calculating the reported deficit, the federal government merges the finances of all federal programs into what is called the “unified budget.” Hence, the deficit does not account for the intergovernmental debt that arises when programs such as Social Security loan their surpluses to the federal government.

When the federal government lays out money for programs such as TARP and student loans, the outgo is not fully counted in the deficit. The deficit reflects only what the government expects to lose or gain on these loans.

In short, Jay Carney’s boss was happy to use Social Security to make things look better, but is unwilling to use the same accounting standards when they don’t benefit him. Didn’t someone run against those kinds of budget gimmicks in 2008?

Between Obama’s fiscal cliff proposal and subsequent vacation, and Carney’s and Geithner’s comments, the Administration is finally making its intentions clear: tax the so-called “rich,” cut next-to-nothing from the budget, and claim that this will bring back the glory days of the Clinton era. Never mind that the entire argument ignores at least seven major Clinton-era fallacies, and that a return to the Clinton-era tax rates on the “wealthy” only raises 1.88% of the next decade’s expected spending.

Spending cuts, entitlement reform, and tax reform are the three major keys to economic recovery and preventing the transformation of America into today’s Greece. Unfortunately, Obama’s opening negotiations on the fiscal cliff are not hopeful signs that he takes any of them seriously.

Dustin Siggins is the principal blogger for the Tea Party Patriots, a national grassroots coalition with more than 3,500 local chapters. He is also a co-founder of LibertyUnyielding.com, and the author of a forthcoming book on the national debt. The opinions expressed are his own. 

 


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Excuse me, please do not link these punks with William Barret Travis and the men who died at the Alamo.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Aren’t they cute? Frick and Frack!
L

letget on December 3, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Facts help:

1. The commie Democrats and the msm only have the votes and rule of the large population cities.

2. We the People can get by the old hard ways for a time and we know how to, and have the courage to do so.

3. The dole and hand outs are all the commie Democrats control and that comes from U.S..

4. The safe zones will start about 1/2 tank of gas from the large city centers.

5. The on the dole ones will not come to the outer areas to try to take our stuff. The commie Democrat can not and will not be able to force U.S. to give up our stuff.

6. Stand our ground now while we are able.

Call their bluff.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:20 PM

7. The city centers are not controlable without large doses of the dole. With out tax payer dole funds, the commie Democrats are just dust in the wind.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Carney’s comments are very intellectually dishonest

Understatement, this.

STL_Vet on December 3, 2012 at 5:23 PM

“Hah, you fools”

Schadenfreude on December 3, 2012 at 5:23 PM

Carney’s comments are very intellectually dishonest, and he knows it.

May all the media who are incestual with the gov’t have cripples (yes, intentionally used the un-PC word).

Schadenfreude on December 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Could we stop with the fantasy figures put out by the feral government and deal with the reality of the situation:

Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087636.html
The actual liabilities of the federal government—including Social Security, Medicare, and federal employees’ future retirement benefits—already exceed $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP.

Chip on December 3, 2012 at 5:25 PM

Mean old Mr. Personal Responsibility lives on.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:25 PM

The people voted for big government…give them big government. But they gotta pay for big government…they can’t pass the bill on their kids.

Deafdog on December 3, 2012 at 5:28 PM

a return to the Clinton-era tax rates on the “wealthy” only raises 1.88% of the next decade’s expected spending.

What, do we expect taxing the wealthy more to pay for 100% of the entire federal budget? The 1.8% # makes no sense. We should look at the % of the deficit over that period of time the tax cuts offset, still a puny #, probably less than 10%. But the 1.8% is pretty misleading I think.

RW Wacko on December 3, 2012 at 5:29 PM

only raises 1.88% of the next decade’s expected spending.

tax increases hardly ever equal “increased revenue” so I doubt they raise that much

Slade73 on December 3, 2012 at 5:30 PM

Mr. Personal Responsibility does not vote for Democrats and would not ever vote for a do nothing grifter like Obama.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Kenyan grifter

Slade73 on December 3, 2012 at 5:32 PM

No matter how good you lie to your wife, when the checking account is empty, its empty.

And blaming it on any previous husband just won’t work.

“We should address the drivers of the deficit, and Social Security is not currently a driver of the deficit,” Mr. Carney said.

So tell us, O’Carney, where does the cash come from when SSA redeems its Special Treasury Notes?

[Answer: General treasury revenue. Thats right...we all have paid into a system which loaned the money to the Treasury, and now we have to pay the loan back. Our own damn money. That is the most ugly part of the SSA scam.]

BobMbx on December 3, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Spending cuts, entitlement reform, and tax reform are the three major keys to economic recovery and preventing the transformation of America into today’s Greece. Unfortunately, Obama’s opening negotiations on the fiscal cliff are not hopeful signs that he takes any of them seriously.

Shouldn’t it be obvious that the Dear Liar thinks that the BSM will back him all the way on this and that even if He crashes the economy (and all those high taxes on the rich should do the trick) he’ll come out smelling like a rose?

Chip on December 3, 2012 at 5:35 PM

In the 80s, under Reagan many were warning what is happening today would come about. But the Dems called shenanigans, tried terrifying seniors and everyone else, then pushed the issue aside. But, here we are as predicted.

Times change, but liberals don’t. Well-scratch that. Liberals do change, but only in how they get worse.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 5:35 PM

Sore card time: Lot’s of things bothering me on lots of different subjects.

1. How much will the Democrats spend on the 2014 mid term elections to regain control of the House? Plenty, all they got.
2. Who is Obama? We still do not know if he is a US Citizen. He is the only one that says so and the Democrats have spent $$Millions to keep us from knowing. I don’t mean this Birther thing. No doubt he started out a US Citizen . It’s what happened in Indonesia as a child and Kenya as a young adult the questions my mind.
3. Does Obama want to go over the fiscal Cliff ? I think so. Polisky already stated that she is in favor of suspending the separation of Powers Clause and give Obama Unilateral control of the money flow, almost said BUDGET but then the Decorates have done away with that 4 years ago. If we go over the cliff the Obama can decree a National Emergency.
4. What really happened in Fast and Furious? We will never know since it seems to be swept away to that same place they keep Ruby Ridge and Waco TX. Wouldn’t you know it was the same people.
5. What ever happened in Benghazi? Will we ever hear from these Democrats?
6. Did the Democrats steal the election? I do not think so. Elections are all about the numbers game. The Demarcates played that game better. If a situation came up (buried Benghazi until after the election) and it could give a .001% advantage to the re-election then then took it. All those added up to a win. The Republicans and “We The People” let them get a way with it.
7. Has our government become so convoluted by these elitist, with so many rules, counter rules and exception to rules, that all we have remaining is what they tell us.
8. Have they exempt them selves from so much of what we have to live with on a daily basis that they no longer can “feel or pain” or really care if it will get in the way of “THEIR VERSON OF THE AMERICAN DREAM”? Re-election at any cost?

Pick a point and keep on it. Do not allow them to miss direct, spin, re-spin, lie or sweep under the rug. The only thing that they do not yet control is “The Court of Public Opinion”.

jpcpt03 on December 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM

BobMbx on December 3, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Whaddya mean we’re out of money – we still have checks left!

ghostwalker1 on December 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Two things 100% sure.

These commie Democrats will force the issue.

McCain and many of the R’s will fold up like they have in the past.

We though are the foundation, they (the RINO’s) are the cheap roofing shingles we should not have paid for, we should have done the right thing and paid for the best tile roof known to man.

As long as we stick together the foundation will not crack.

It is our duty and we will do the job once more.

Take a look at these two little punks they send out, would we ever fear things like this?

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:41 PM

jpcpt03,

Ditto.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:45 PM

The only thing that they do not yet control is “The Court of Public Opinion”.

jpcpt03 on December 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Yes, they do–52% to 48%. And the MSM is at saturation level. CA is basically one-party rule now.

That’s why I say to let the liberals, with minor exceptions requiring a hard fight, have pretty much everything they want. We know the pain to come and many of us are preparing, but the liberals will be caught off guard.

As Steve Martin once said, “Comedy Is Not Pretty.”

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 5:46 PM

It seems the “lines in the sand are becoming clear” – Demonrats won’t consider a plan with Social Security on the table. And, Demonrats won’t conisder a plan without tax rate hikes on the top 2%.

The plan revealed by Republicans today crosses both the lines noted above. So, it looks like we are going off the cliff. Can’t wait to see the chaos from the Obamasites when that happens.

rsherwd65 on December 3, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Finally one post that seems sane.

So sick of post extolling the DNC talking points of taxing the rich and eliminating deductions for charity. The opposite of what this country needs.

Bring back GOD or suffer the consequences.

Steveangell on December 3, 2012 at 5:53 PM

And the pic used for this article, a paper airplane made from one dollar bills going down in flames. So Dustin, is that some kind of Freudian implication that you are in the L.I.B (Let it burn) Burn baby Burn… camp?

SWalker on December 3, 2012 at 5:53 PM

The 52% is only the large population city centers.

The msm and the commie Democrats only control the dole out of the dole in those places.

The dole comes from “U.S.”.

We the “U.S.” are enablers, we must stop.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Can’t wait to see the chaos from the Obamasites when that happens.

rsherwd65 on December 3, 2012 at 5:52 PM

What chaos? The MSM stories are already written, with headlines like, “Republicans Run from Responsibility to Their Constituents.”

First paragraph: “In an expected move after the Obama juggernaut, Congressional Republicans abdicate responsibility to those who elected them by caving to every Democrat proposal, thereby solidifying the public mandate for Democrat policies and fixes created during the Bush Administration.

“‘This is a great day for us and for the country,’ says Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. But we wish the Republicans put up a fight and stood on their principles. Maybe they don’t have any.’”

You know how it’ll go. Then, when Dem policies fail, the new story will be that obstructionist Republicans didn’t give input, in the spirit of bipartisanship, to help Democrats find any flaws that could have made the plan better.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 6:01 PM

we have to backup and reflect on what the left’s solution is to SS. Higher taxes…raise the cap (or even lift it althoughter…so if you make 1M you pay 15.5 percent or 150K+ just in SS/medicare taxes)

that’s the goal…so how to get there? let it be…and then in 10 or 15 years declare an emergency…we can’t reduce everone’s benes by 15 percent…so (so sad) we have to raise Taxes

the crisis hasn’t ripened yet

r keller on December 3, 2012 at 6:01 PM

“Addicted to the Dole”

Who is the dealer,
Who supplies the money for the dole,
Why do that?

Just say no.

ss is not the dole, and can be fixed.

but….

The guys coming by and picking up the checks for their “dependent” yet abandoned children and spending that money on crack have those guys have to be fixed.

Some things demand to be done.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 6:02 PM

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/12/03/mccain-to-kerry-thank-you-very-much-mr-secretary/

Good to see it’s all just a bunch of games in D.C. We slap your back and yuck it up and we slap yours.

Just once……Just once…….how about someone BEYONCESLAP someone on the Democrat side of the aisle?

Nope….not gonna happen. Look what happens when you don’t toe the line (Joe Wilson, “You lie”) (Michelle Bachmann, questioning Huma Abedin and her Muzzie connections while she serves Hillary).

ALL HAIL our Divine Ruling class. Let the games go on.

TEATERLYMPICS 2012

PappyD61 on December 3, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Good news! For my bunker business.

Bishop on December 3, 2012 at 6:05 PM

Okay, the Rats want to keep SocSecurity off the table. I say give them exactly what they want, and then tell the disabled whose disability checks will get cut by over 25% come June 2016 exactly who didn’t want to deal with it.

Hint, Dingy Harry’s up for re-election in 2016.

Steve Eggleston on December 3, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Oh, I HOPE Chris Van Hollen will try to run for re-election in 2016 when the Disability Insurance “Trust Fund” runs out of IOUs.

Steve Eggleston on December 3, 2012 at 6:09 PM


What chaos? The MSM stories are already written, with headlines like, “Republicans Run from Responsibility to Their Constituents.”

First paragraph: “In an expected move after the Obama juggernaut, Congressional Republicans abdicate responsibility to those who elected them by caving to every Democrat proposal, thereby solidifying the public mandate for Democrat policies and fixes created during the Bush Administration.

“‘This is a great day for us and for the country,’ says Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. But we wish the Republicans put up a fight and stood on their principles. Maybe they don’t have any.’”

You know how it’ll go. Then, when Dem policies fail, the new story will be that obstructionist Republicans didn’t give input, in the spirit of bipartisanship, to help Democrats find any flaws that could have made the plan better.

Liam on December 3, 2012 at 6:01 PM

THIS!

L.i.B…..

Scrumpy on December 3, 2012 at 6:17 PM

i truly despise this administration

cmsinaz on December 3, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Scrumpy on December 3, 2012 at 6:17 PM

2nd that

cmsinaz on December 3, 2012 at 6:21 PM

I feel honored. Finally recognized by
APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 3, 2012 at 5:45 PM
You write well and from your heart.

And to all the nay sayers out there about the MSM if it was true then outlets like Hot Air would not be.

jpcpt03 on December 3, 2012 at 6:24 PM

I think apache has a clue…

Our house is paid off and we see this massive slowdown coming. We live in Houston which is not broke but does have over $6 billion in unfunded pension debt that can’t be discussed by our media or local politicians. We are thinking of dropping in a pool and sitting back for awhile with the knowledge local taxes have to go up to deal with what’s coming but realistically the cities will feel the bite first and Texas is in the target of the WH.

hmmmm

DanMan on December 3, 2012 at 6:24 PM

And it continues, Barack Obama’s favorite poem:

Ode on a Grecian Economy

IndieDogg on December 3, 2012 at 6:33 PM

As for the “SocSecurity doesn’t add to the deficit” li(n)e, here’s the cash shortfall between FY2013 and FY2022:

- $925 billion if either the Disability and Old-Age and Survivors “Trust Funds” were combined or disability payments were fully-paid out after the DI “Trust Fund” runs out of IOUs in mid-2016. Incidentally, this $925 billion is part of every 10-year deficit figure I’ve seen.
- $704 billion if, when the DI “Trust Fund” runs out of IOUs in mid-2016, disability payments were cut the 25% the “Fund” would be short.

Given, depending on which larger scenario one wants to use, $925 billion is anywhere between 10% and 25% of the problem, it’s ludicrous to take this completely off the table.

Steve Eggleston on December 3, 2012 at 7:00 PM

Unless you are a liberal Democrat this is not your country. You may be a citizen by birth but now you are an unwelcome tenant with little or no voice in the government. We are a country divided with no hope of reconciliation. Sad but true.

rplat on December 3, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Unless you are a liberal Democrat this is not your country. You may be a citizen by birth but now you are an unwelcome tenant with little or no voice in the government. We are a country divided with no hope of reconciliation. Sad but true.

rplat on December 3, 2012 at 7:09 PM

And they don’t want you to leave until you pay the Reichsfluchtsteuer.

Steve Eggleston on December 3, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I could be wrong but things are not going to end well…or peacefully.

jukin3 on December 3, 2012 at 7:33 PM

“We The People”, The three most powerful words ever to be written. Washington you have been warned. No longer are your self serving actions going to be tolerated.

Is there hope out there? Absolutely! As long as People like:
APACHEWHOKNOWS……FARMER…….BLUEFOX…….JPCPT03…..and many others continue to speak out and outlets like Hot Air remains.

jpcpt03 on December 3, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Geithner and Carney drawing a fiscal cliff line in the sand?

…the only thing those those two buttbangers can do…is get sand in their cracks!…they think ‘fiscal’ is an ointment!

KOOLAID2 on December 3, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Carney’s comments are very intellectually dishonest, and he knows it.

His head is so far up his ass it’s a wonder he can breathe.

GarandFan on December 3, 2012 at 8:36 PM

The greatest threat to the prosperity, freedom, and liberty of this country is the current federal government. In my opinion, it is a thing broken beyond repair. It is the government “we the people” have selected. Thus, my plan is to wait until the inevitable crash comes, and begin the “thinning of the herd” that must happen for those who value liberty to once again be in the majority. The takers are NOT my countrymen, they are the enemy, and will be “reduced” by their inability to cope with the crash when nanny government won’t be there to change their nappies. When they come out of their cities, starving and cold, what awaits them will not be pretty, but will be necessary.

djtnt on December 3, 2012 at 9:21 PM

What can they offer that’s better than what we have now? More debt, more spending to make more dependents on those who work and pay taxes. Remember, that’s not charity, it will be seen as a legal right. And there will be nothing to stand in its way but those who see for what it is: theft and stifling of America’s promise.

flataffect on December 5, 2012 at 3:53 PM