Video: Geithner says “no deal” without higher marginal tax rates

posted at 12:31 pm on December 2, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

Is it bluster? Is it posturing? Or is this the real line in the sand? Tim Geithner was sent out to do the Full Ginsberg this morning for part number 183 in the media’s 2,394 parts series on the fiscal cliff. There was one repeating theme, highlighted below in this video clip from an interview with Candy Crowley. Regardless of the previous suggestions from some Democratic spokespersons about flexibility and finding revenues in whichever way they can be obtained, Geithner was laying out a Great Wall of China type barricade in the negotiations. I’ve extracted a short transcript of the crucial portion with the video following.

Candy Crowley: But they’ve [the Republicans] said no increase in rates.

Tim Geithner: But there’s going to be… they know this. Look. There’s not going to be an agreement without rates going up.

CC: So you’ll go off the fiscal cliff if the Republicans say, ‘Sorry, no way are we going to raise rates for, on the wealthy.’ You guys are willing to go off the cliff.

TG: If Republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the Clinton levels, a time when the American economy was doing extraordinarily well, then there will not be an agreement.

So there you have it. No deal without the tax rates going up, at least on the wealthiest Americans. And given who is doing the talking here and how widely he’s broadcasting the message, it would be pretty difficult to walk that one back. Of course, it’s the one poison pill which is probably more of a non-starter with the portions of Boehner’s caucus he has to sell on a deal than anything else.

Back on November 17th I wrote the following:

If [Obama] takes a very hard line and forces the showdown to a collapse in discussions, several potentially positive (for him) results are baked into the cake. He can claim that Republicans refused a “balanced approach” and it’s their fault that everyone’s taxes went up. He then has the Democrats force a vote on a bill to only lower taxes on the middle class and the poor and just dares the GOP to vote against it. (They won’t.) At this point he has the tax / revenue increase he promised without giving up a single thing. Now the negotiations start anew to talk about “spending cuts” but the GOP’s major bargaining chip is gone.

At the time I wrote that I received a number of responses saying I was “crazy.” Just this morning I watched Bob Scheifer asking a series of guests if the parties involved in the negotiations could “really be that stupid.” Everyone seems to be shying away from the possibility that there won’t be an eleventh hour deal.

Does it still sound crazy?


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Bet a pound of flesh on it,taxes will be raised on the middle class, the Non-Rich. Geithner appears evasive, Jazz Shaw appears dumb, but that’s where the money is. If so many LittleLiberals will be shocked, assuming their tiny brains are still working. In any case , back to another multi-year run of trillion$$+ deficits.

arand on December 2, 2012 at 4:24 PM

You can fool most of the Americans, all of the time.

Schadenfreude on December 2, 2012 at 4:58 PM

OBAMA ACTS LIKE NAPOLEON: The President’s offer is not a serious one, if compromise were what he was seeking. It betrays his real purpose: to drive the Republicans and the nation over the fiscal cliff. In a move Napoleon would have approved, he is attempting to turn his narrow victory in November into decisive victory in January.

Mutnodjmet on December 2, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Burn in hell, Timmy. You and the horse that brung ya.

Midas on December 2, 2012 at 5:24 PM

The President won the election running on just this very idea. Can someone remind the GOP that they got trounced on the Presidential level, whalloped in the Senate and lost seats in the House?

libfreeordie on December 2, 2012 at 2:03 PM

You say that like you think the laws of economics were voted out of existence or something.

You’re stupid party certainly won the election, but did not receive a ‘mandate’, nor does it change what works and what is categorically and clinically insane from an economic reality perspective.

So kindly, and I mean this with all due respect, shut the f@#$ up you ignorant piece of s@#$.

Midas on December 2, 2012 at 5:34 PM

“Spending Cuts..?

… Never heard of them.”

Seven Percent Solution on December 2, 2012 at 5:43 PM

…I wanna beat Timmy up!…is that ok?

KOOLAID2 on December 2, 2012 at 5:49 PM

…I wanna beat Timmy up!…is that ok?

KOOLAID2 on December 2, 2012 at 5:49 PM

The line forms on the Right.

coldwarrior on December 2, 2012 at 6:14 PM

These Repunks are always finding themselves on defense!
Propose a tax of 70% on all politicians income that is not direct salary payments including Obama, Obiden all congress critters and senate scum and tie in a takeaway of those guys govt healthcare with them being put in the average citizens exchanges.
Most congress critters and senate scum riches is ill gotten insider trading or lobbyist payoffs anyway.
Then in the interest of Fairness add a 60 % tax on all actors and professional sports stars income since they provide a product of dubious worth.
Put the Rats on their heels to defend not raising their own ill gotten riches even while they raise taxes on the middle class through Obamacare and employer rate increases that will be passed on to the consumer.
I guarantee you if I, as a business person am taxed more, my fees will increase. I have a level of income I will maintain regardless of what the Corruptocrats try to do to me.
Ef em all!

ConcealedKerry on December 2, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Is it just me or is this a bit of a strawman:

“and we think they should go back to the Clinton levels, a time when the American economy was doing extraordinarily well”

How exactly are increased tax rates on only the wealthy, which would account for 80 billion/yr, going to magically swing an economy back to 90′s style growth.$80 billion/yr taken out of the economy is a rounding error. We already saw that $1 trillion in stimulus could not swing an economy into overdrive.

Why is there no pushback on just how ridiculous this is, considering the 90′s experienced a tech/internet boom which, coupled with outsourcing and the drive to lower costs and higher consumption on credit, fueled the growth of the 90′s? That is something that will not be repeated, no matter what the rates.

can_con on December 2, 2012 at 6:38 PM

No deal without the tax rates going up, at least on the wealthiest Americans. And given who is doing the talking here and how widely he’s broadcasting the message, it would be pretty difficult to walk that one back.

And why would he want to walk it back? If Republicans want to die on the hill of keeping tax cuts for the upper 2%, the democrats will be quite happy to let them do so and, in fact, will be very disappointed if they don’t.

VorDaj on December 2, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Remember how the Bush tax cuts were only for the rich. Now, if they go away, it hurts the middle class and the poor.

Jasper61 on December 2, 2012 at 6:42 PM

You can fool most of the Americans, all of the time.

Schadenfreude on December 2, 2012 at 4:58 PM

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/disheartened-obamaphiles-should-just-stop-talking/

davidk on December 2, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Why don’t these clowns in washington get it that you can’t spend money that you don’t have?

Why can’t the republicans explain this simple economic fact?

Why don’t the republicans pass a massive reform budget ala Obamacare, and not let the crisis go to waste. Why are they being railroaded into suicide? Why can’t they railroad the president into accepting massive spending cuts, and hobbling of government authority?

Its pathetic they keep getting ramrodded into these catastrophic deals.

They should start passing legislation saying they’re going to put the massive cuts first, and then raise taxes later. Just do the opposite of what barry’s trying to do to them.

Iblis on December 2, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Sure, higher rates.
Timmy’s not worried, he doesn’t pay any rates.

Another Drew on December 2, 2012 at 8:15 PM

Simpson/Bowles or over the cliff ….

conservative tarheel on December 2, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Democrats will not laugh that much when u cave repubs they promise

Mormontheman on December 2, 2012 at 8:44 PM

Team Socialism doesn’t care about trillion dollar deficits. It is obsessed with forcing the “wealthy” to pay more for simply punitive reasons.

Even if they get the $80 billion they project by taxing the “wealthy” at a higher rate, which they won’t — many of the “wealthy” will do what they need to do to reduce their taxes, and even if the deficit is only a trillion, it has been higher for four years and will continue to be, they still need another $920 billion to eliminate the deficit. Yet they have no proposal whatsoever to do anything about this problem.

At the same time they have people like Buffet saying trillion dollar deficits do not matter and they are proposing spending increases that would eat up all of that $80 billion. Meanwhile almost 50% of people pay no federal income tax at all.

There can be no clearer evidence in my mind that Obama is a radical socialist. He doesn’t care about the deficit. He simply wants to confiscate more money from the “wealthy” even if he can only burn it. This is purely punitive action and the essence of class warfare — hurt the “wealthy” even if it does nothing to help anyone else. All that matters is the appearance of sticking it to the “wealthy”.

farsighted on December 2, 2012 at 8:44 PM

Dens want more class warfare. They want to run on repubs protect the wealthy for the rest of time

Mormontheman on December 2, 2012 at 8:46 PM

This isn’t about revenues. The “tax hike on the rich” is lost in the deficit noise, and Democrats know this as well as Republicans.

This is about the scene in Shogun where the samurai pisses on Blackthorne’s head. Or the scene in many old movies where the mob leader tests his control over a minion by handing him a gun and telling him to shoot his best friend.

If the Republicans abandon a core principle like this, they’re basically castrated, and the Democrats know it.

tbrosz on December 2, 2012 at 8:50 PM

It’s too bad that all of the interviewers who let Geithner get away with his bullying are so economically innumerate. They haven’t a clue of how to ask follow-up questions or to make observations about the nonsense of comparing the Clinton tax rates to those currently in place.

The audacity of demanding that the president have no debt ceiling, to send our economy and our credit rating into the dumpster while indebting us through bottomless borrowing is absurd.

Good grief, any Republican or responsible Democrat should be able to point to the waste of past “stimulus” programs and “investments” in bankrupt energy boondoggles.

onlineanalyst on December 2, 2012 at 9:06 PM

Here ya go Timmy -
-
http://www.betterworldbooks.com/economics-for-dummies-id-0764557262.aspx

diogenes on December 2, 2012 at 9:13 PM

We need a TRUE Conservative to lead the party.

PALIN 2016

ChuckTX on December 2, 2012 at 1:10 PM

MMMMMMM, no…….we NEEDED a True Conservative to lead the party in 2012!!!!, and she said not interested.

So go back to Alaska and keep posting Mrs. Palin. It’s great entertainment but we know you just think it’s a game because when YOU had the chance to do something about it….YOU TOOK A PASS.

PappyD61 on December 2, 2012 at 9:25 PM

Check out the May 21, 2010 article from The Blaze to learn all about Timmy Geithner. His ties to international banking and to Obysmal go way back.
http://knowledgecreatespower.blogspot.com/2010/05/shore-bank-obamas-mother-and-geithners.html

onlineanalyst on December 2, 2012 at 9:44 PM

Simpson/Bowles or over the cliff ….

conservative tarheel on December 2, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Yep. The House should just pass it and adjourn.

lucyvanpelt on December 2, 2012 at 9:44 PM

“back to the Clinton levels, a time when the American economy was doing extraordinarily well…”

THIS DRIVES ME NUTS!

The economy did extraordinarily well under Clinton because of the dot com boom, not anything Clinton did. Unemployment was up near 7% when he took office, the dot com boom dropped it below 6% down to a low of 4% before the bust.

They are fools, all of them.

TheLoudTalker on December 2, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Everyone not among the Left (and seeking to raise taxes as they and Obama — and Geitner — are) needs to get used to the idea and accept it that WHATEVER happens, however this whole Obama-Needs-Your-Money push resolves (if it ever does), that the GOP will be blamed and ruined and dragged through the political-media mud by the media-politicos.

That’s their modus operandi. That’s their fallback method of leveraging what they want: they “ruin you with gossip.”

It does not matter if the gossip is presented in realistic terms or in melodramatic terms, it’s that it’s the gossip-method-to-destroy that the Left deploys to ruin any and all and each who confront, oppose and somehow don’t bend to the Left’s demands.

Get used to it, that method by the Left, because they’re not motivated by good ethics, they’re motivated by bad ones. And the media is their friend, not everyone else’s.

Lourdes on December 2, 2012 at 11:06 PM

One of the primary methods of operations — their modus operandi — of organized crime is they drive people and companies out of business when the crimea are opposed or even don’t get a submissive response to ‘play along’.

They make it increasingly impossible for whoever isn’t ‘playing along’ to support themselves, they “ruin you with gossip” and gossip that encourages others to not engage in business with you, to oppose your products and/or work, etc.

That is exactly how the LEft operates.

Lourdes on December 2, 2012 at 11:08 PM

And I AM implying here that the current Administration is a crime syndicate.

Lourdes on December 2, 2012 at 11:09 PM

Looks like somebody in this Administration is actually trying to crash the dollar…big time…George Soros currency manipulation big time…with full intent to bring the dollar to the level of the Zambian kwacha, Nepali rupee or other insignificant minor world currency.

coldwarrior on December 2, 2012 at 12:43 PM

DITTO.

Lourdes on December 2, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Anyone who has ever had a three or four year old recognizes this behavior.

rjh on December 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Yes. And it was certainly present in Timmy Geitner’s appearances on tv this morning. Never a more petulent, temper-tantrum-threatening four year old have I ever seen or heard than what I saw this morning by Geitner.

His new title should be “Mr. Smarty Pants.”

Lourdes on December 2, 2012 at 11:20 PM

If Republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the Clinton levels, a time when the American economy was doing extraordinarily well, then there will not be an agreement.

How about we return spending to Clinton-era levels?

CJ on December 3, 2012 at 12:10 AM

Burn in hell, Timmy. You and the horseJack@ss that brung ya.

Midas on December 2, 2012 at 5:24 PM

FIFY.

Is it any wonder the mascot for the democratic party is a jack@ss?!

Sterling Holobyte on December 3, 2012 at 12:21 AM

Haven’t we had a war over taxation without representation before?

Tater Salad on December 3, 2012 at 12:28 AM

That TAX EVADING Treasury Secretary has NO PLACE in a negotiation over tax rates. It is for him to execute policy and work wtih the tools provided, not tell us we need to get screwed more.

rayra on December 3, 2012 at 1:21 AM

Why he isn’t he in jail for income tax evasion?

Bubba Redneck on December 3, 2012 at 3:52 AM

Members of Congress are among the “wealthiest Americans.” There is no way in God’s green Earth they are going to pay a nickle more than they have to for anything.

Either they (Congress)will find a way to extracate themselves from this mess or the whole thing is going to land on the backs of the “wealthy,” wealthy now meaning anyone who grosses over about $40k.

Mr. Grump on December 3, 2012 at 7:00 AM

Just a thought, but where are all of the Republicans who supported Turbo Tax Geithner for Secretary of the Treasury?

Nomas on December 3, 2012 at 7:30 AM

Geithner was laying out a Great Wall of China type barricade in the negotiations. I’ve extracted a short transcript of the crucial portion with the video following.

Both sides are posturing. I think they are still far apart but they are laying down markers with less than four weeks to go.

IMO, this predicts that there will be no deal before the end of the year. If the rat-eared bastard were serious about coming to a deal, he’d be more involved and have a legitimate second chair helping not TurboTax Timmy who is clearly distrusted by the GOP, has no real authority to broker a deal, and is as much of the cause of economic problems as anybody in this corrupt administration.

Happy Nomad on December 3, 2012 at 7:42 AM

Just a thought, but where are all of the Republicans who supported Turbo Tax Geithner for Secretary of the Treasury?

Nomas on December 3, 2012 at 7:30 AM

I don’t recall a lot of GOP support for TurboTax Timmy.

Happy Nomad on December 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM

How many times, since WW2, have they raised marginal tax rates, only to lower them when revenue decreased as a result of less economic activity?

esblowfeld on December 3, 2012 at 7:58 AM

Boehner just refuses to let the bill be voted on – and then misleads the press on other things – why do we need we need to telegraph everything we do? Gum it up, put in visible provisions that change the narrative and hide the counterbalance. This isn’t that tough.

Zomcon JEM on December 3, 2012 at 8:09 AM

Problem is, as usual Boehner is doing a horrible job of articulating Republicans position.

Geithner and Mr. Obama have not put any cuts on the table. None. Zero. Yet they are asking Republicans to articulate those also?

Where is your plan Mr. Obama? Is it lost with your budget for the last four years?

Obama originally asked for increases in some tax rates. Republicans conceded they will look at select revenue increases- not rates.

Now he wants them to also articulate cuts? Who are they negotiating with- themselves?

Where is the White House leadership? Oh that’s right demonizing successful people and performing the usual demagoguery.

Marcus Traianus on December 3, 2012 at 8:53 AM

WHY is this clown involved with the discussions regarding Legislation? Yes, he is a Cabinet member – Sect of the Treasury, but that is about it. More importantly, he was involved with Currency Manipulation several years ago, despite never beuing charged (It is amazing how many illegal things these Liberals/politicians get involved in yet never get charged/punished). He was also one of many of Obama’s Cabinet member appointees who thought they didn’t have to pay their taxes.

He should be used to being laughed at, though – remember how he traveled to China to give an economic briefing & was laughed at by those he gave the briefing to? Maybe he should GET THE HINT!

easyt65 on December 3, 2012 at 11:51 AM

“back to the Clinton levels, a time when the American economy was doing extraordinarily well…”

And I think Repubs should tell them to put their money where their mouth is and vote for Clinton tax rates… and Clinton budget amounts… and since Obamacare didn’t exist then, repeal it!

Go ahead Dems… put your money where your mouth is!

dominigan on December 3, 2012 at 12:39 PM

<blockquoteThere’s not going to be an agreement without rates going up.
OK, so Obama wants “rates going up.” Not “rates on the top 2%” or whatever, but “rates”. In fact, Geithner said this twice. In “Bite The Bullet” the young cowboy asks if the old cowboy meant what he said, and someone else answered “he said it twice.” So Geithner means what he says: Obama wants tax rates to go up. Maybe only on the +$250K crowd for now, but the lower brackets are in his sights. After all, lower income earners paid higher rates under Clinton as well.

So long as this administration can successfully sell the scam that rates are what matter (and they can so long as the MSM continues to scavenge the scraps from Obama’s table), they will get away with it. But the simple fact is that the real issue is revenue, i.e., how much is actually collected. The top 2% paid more in actual dollars in 2007 than they did in 2001. A rising tide lifts all ships, including the ship of government taxation that should be sunk below the waterline.

The real problem, as always, is that Obama sets the tone and all the GOP can do is play defense. Does the GOP have a message? Beats me. And if they do, the GOP has to be the most inept political party in history given their inability to articulate it clearly and succinctly.

UnrepentantCurmudgeon on December 3, 2012 at 7:14 PM

The solution to this is really quite simple. I call it the Geithner Rule. The GOP should vote “present”, and let the rates go up. Then, anyone who wanted to, following Geithner’s example, could just not pay the extra amount. I mean, if it’s good enough for the Secretary of the Treasury…

Kenz on December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

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