Finally. Manning speaks.

posted at 8:31 am on December 1, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

We haven’t heard much on the pending Court Martial of accused traitor Bradley Manning since he considered pleading guilty to some lesser charges last month. But in advance of the kickoff of proceedings in January, there was one more episode to air. This week, for the first time since this entire sordid affair began, Manning took the stand himself to give an account of his experiences in the crowbar motel. It was not a happy tale, as one might imagine.

“I was just a mess. I was really starting to fall apart,” the 24-year-old former Army intelligence analyst said. Manning said he didn’t remember an incident while in Kuwait where he bashed his head into a wall or another where he fashioned a noose out of a bed sheet as his civilian attorney, David Coombs, said he had, but Manning did say he felt he was “going to die… [in] an animal cage.”

“I certainly contemplated [suicide]. There’s no means, even if the noose… there’d be nothing I could do with it. Nothing to hang it on. It felt… pointless,” he said. Manning had been on suicide watch since late June 2010, a month after his initial arrest in Baghdad.

Apparently the latest attempt at salvation by Manning’s defense team – which at this point seems more interested in headlines than attempting any sort of competent legal work – is to claim that the time the Private has already spent in captivity is more than enough punishment so we should scrap the whole affair and just send him home now. Manning spoke about his treatment before coming back to the United States to stand before the wheel for his alleged actions.

He recounted an incident in Baghdad when he fainted from the heat in his cell. Later in Kuwait, Manning said he was initially given phone privileges he used to call an aunt and friend in the United States, but that privilege was taken away a short time later.

After his alarming breakdown in June 2010, Manning told a mental health specialist that he really “didn’t want to die, but [he] just wanted to get out of the cage,” saying he believed his life had “just sunk.”

In the spirit of this new, bipartisan, post-election era, we’ve found something we can all agree upon. Your life certainly had just sunk because you were caught doing the (alleged) actions which you were ready to plead guilty to last month. And apparently you fainted from the heat in your cell. We have plenty of men and women who do the same thing without selling out their country, just from the heat inside their armor in the field. I’d like to summon up a bit more sympathy that the air conditioning in your cell wasn’t up to expected standards, but I’m having a hard time managing it.

Shortly after New Years, the Army will have finished their detailed investigative work and moved on to the final stage. By all accounts, this could have taken place much sooner, but Manning’s defense team has filed one nuisance motion after another on every technicality they could find to derail the process. The Army has patiently heard and considered each and every one of these motions, giving the accused ample opportunity to air grievances. But none have proven persuasive and the delays seem to be more the fault of his own team than the Army’s criminal justice system.

It’s time to get this farce over with.


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Fantastic interview with Assange, linked on Drudge:

Link

Dante on December 1, 2012 at 4:05 PM

He recounted an incident in Baghdad when he fainted from the heat in his cell. Later in Kuwait, Manning said he was initially given phone privileges he used to call an aunt and friend in the United States, but that privilege was taken away a short time later.

After his alarming breakdown in June 2010, Manning told a mental health specialist that he really “didn’t want to die, but [he] just wanted to get out of the cage,” saying he believed his life had “just sunk.”

SIGH. Jail is not supposed to be fun. It’s supposed to be *punishment*.

These whiny liberals think that they should get participation badges because they’ve managed to survive another day.

kim roy on December 1, 2012 at 4:34 PM

No, gay Organizations are not support Bradley Manning … much.


Bradley Manning Support Networks Speak Out At Gay Pride Events.

The Washing Blade.

Just too many to post. Go look yourself. They’re out there in quite large numbers.

hawkdriver on December 1, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Fantastic interview with Assange, linked on Drudge:

Link

Dante on December 1, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Your hero?

hawkdriver on December 1, 2012 at 5:17 PM

the time the Private has already spent in captivity is more than enough punishment so we should scrap the whole affair and just send him home now.

I don’t have a problem with that. Just go ahead and do the sheet thing first. Because the only way you should get to go home is (to paraphrase Pink Floyd) when “they send you back to mother in a cardboard box.”

Sorry, but I’m unable to summon up ANY sympathy for a traitor.

GWB on December 1, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Amazing display of Internet tough guys rooting for summary execution and prison rape of a US soldier that has been convicted of nothing and is not even charged with something that would warrant the death penalty. I am so glad that you have so much faith in the Obama administration and what the LSM has told you about this case. If you claim to support the Constitution, you have to do so even when it delays gratification of your bloodlust and cheering of rape. And how many of you call yourselves Christians? A stunning display of neocon savagery and hostility towards the rule of law.

iwasbornwithit on December 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Amazing display of Internet tough guys rooting for summary execution and prison rape of a US soldier that has been convicted of nothing and is not even charged with something that would warrant the death penalty. I am so glad that you have so much faith in the Obama administration and what the LSM has told you about this case. If you claim to support the Constitution, you have to do so even when it delays gratification of your bloodlust and cheering of rape. And how many of you call yourselves Christians? A stunning display of neocon savagery and hostility towards the rule of law.

iwasbornwithit on December 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM

You were born with what? A major level of arrogance and a chip on your shoulder? He admitted what he did. What he did was treasonous. (And, I’m not relying on “the Obama administration” for that information.) Therefore, yes, I want to see him executed. I really don’t see where I (or many others) are showing “hostility towards the rule of law” in that.

As to savagery… sorry, but execution for treason isn’t particularly savage. Neither is it un-Christian. Try reading scripture fully – it will open your eyes.

GWB on December 1, 2012 at 11:52 PM

GWB on December 1, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Define treason. Then tell me what Manning said specifically where he admitted something that would qualify him to be charged as a traitor. I simply don’t accept the level of secrecy employed by this government at every level to suppress the truth of its overseas activities from the taxpayers that fund its overseas adventures. What information, specifically, did Manning share that harmed our national security? Finally, where did Jesus say it was ok and right to execute traitors? You must be reading a different Bible. Maybe the Gnostic gospels?

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 12:09 AM

Are you rooting for prison rape as well? Must be in the NBK version (New Bill Kristol).

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Define treason.

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 12:09 AM

OK, let’s go with espionage, then:

906a. ART. 106a. ESPIONAGE
(A) (1) Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any entity described in paragraph (2), either directly or indirectly, any thing described in paragraph (3) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, except that if the accused is found guilty of an offense that directly concerns (A) nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large scale attack, (B) war plans, (C) communications intelligence or cryptographic information, or (D) any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy, the accused shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court- martial may direct.

Clear enough?

I simply don’t accept the level of secrecy employed by this government at every level to suppress the truth of its overseas activities from the taxpayers that fund its overseas adventures.

What you’re saying is that what he did wasn’t really treason or espionage because you disagree with the government. Pardon me if that doesn’t really earn my sympathies.

Finally, where did Jesus say it was ok and right to execute traitors?

If your bible only consists of what Jesus said (I presume you don’t mean that in the sense of Jesus being author of all that is in scripture, from cover to cover), then it’s going to be mighty thin. Scripture says we should be obedient to the ruling authorities (until such time as they conflict with God’s commands) [Titus 3:1, 1Peter 2:13-14]. The Law specifies death for numerous offenses [Exodus through Deuteronomy for a selection]. Judas is a good example of a traitor [Matthew 27:5].

Are you rooting for prison rape as well? Must be in the NBK version (New Bill Kristol).

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Interesting you should try to lay that charge since I have said nothing about it, nor endorsed it. Oh, and with the so-subtle neo-con dig, too. You’re a class act.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 12:52 AM

You stated that Manning had admitted to treason. You have modified that to espionage. Please provide links to those statements that would establish not only espionage but would qualify under the aggravating circumstances that would subject him to capital punishment.

My post was directed at Christians which means those that profess to follow the teachings of Christ. It is sad that you resort to Exodus and Deuteronomy in a lame attempt to support your unsupportable assertion that Christ would sanctionthe execution of a traitor to one’s government. Do you abide by all of the laws of Exodus and Deuteronomy? No, but you will hide behind them to justify your bloodlust.

All that you know right now is that Manning is a soldier that has been accused, not convicted, of a crime under the UCMJ. My point was that he is presumed innocent under our laws that Peter and Titus bade us to obey. Of course, you can’t abide those laws because they delay the gratification of your allegedly Christ-sanctioned bloodlust.

Furthermore, would you follow a law that violated your Christian faith? Which are greater…God’s laws or man’s laws?

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM

Did Christ sanction Judas’ execution? Did he rejoice in his suicide? Was Judas a traitor to the state or to Christ personally? Wasn’t Judas actually aiding the state apparatus against the dictates of his conscience? Isn’t that exactly the opposite of Manning?

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 3:10 AM

My post was directed at Christians which means those that profess to follow the teachings of Christ.

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM

Yep. Though I don’t claim to be perfect, nor sinless. I actually don’t know many conservative Christians who do.

It is sad that you resort to Exodus and Deuteronomy in a lame attempt to support your unsupportable assertion that Christ would sanctionthe execution of a traitor to one’s government. Do you abide by all of the laws of Exodus and Deuteronomy? No,….

Actually, I resorted to almost the entirety of what is called “The Law”. If you’re going to accuse me of not being a Christian, don’t muck that part up. As to my use of the Old Testament, there’s that little bit about Christ not abolishing the Law [Matthew 5:17], but what do I does He know, right?

I can handle being called a hypocrite, especially by someone like you. My church happens to be full of hypocrites; I bet yours is too. The difference is that most of us know it and rely upon the grace of our God to get where we’re going. And, if Manning shows up at the pearly gates and St Peter lets him in? That’s God’s business; I’ll be too happy about eternity to worry about the past. In the meantime, his perfidy is the business of this world and its justice.

Please provide links to those statements that would establish….

Not going to do your work for you as I have plenty of other things need doing. But, he did admit to what he did. (And, if you don’t see what he did as espionage, nor the aggravating circumstances, then we probably don’t have enough common ground to discuss this.) It was only after he was charged that he started with the other malarkey.

You accuse me of “bloodlust”. Fine. To quote a little Cicero:

I must remind you, Lords, Senators, that extreme patriotism in the defense of freedom is no crime, and let me respectfully remind you that pusillanimity in the pursuit of justice is no virtue in a Roman.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 7:10 AM

iwasbornwithit on December 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Point made. Okay, I’m good with waiting until Manning is convicted of a capital crime (Treason, espionage, whatev . . ) and then the appropriate punishment: Death.

How terribly un-Christian of me.

BigAlSouth on December 2, 2012 at 8:08 AM

Sorry, but I’m unable to summon up ANY sympathy for a traitor.

GWB on December 1, 2012 at 11:14 PM

He’s not a traitor, nor did he commit treason, nor do his acts meet your definition of espionage. He’s a whistleblower, uncovering the lies and crimes of government.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Sorry, but no. His actions are not those of a whistleblower. If you want to claim he’s a revolutionary, fine – then he needs to accept the consequences of his actions. But he is no whistleblower. He committed espionage against his own country – which makes him a traitor.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Sorry, but no. His actions are not those of a whistleblower. If you want to claim he’s a revolutionary, fine – then he needs to accept the consequences of his actions. But he is no whistleblower. He committed espionage against his own country – which makes him a traitor.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 11:34 AM

His actions are exactly that of a whistleblower. He did not commit espionage, nor is he a traitor.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM

His actions are exactly that of a whistleblower. He did not commit espionage, nor is he a traitor.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 12:25 PM

No. A whistleblower has a specific grievance, has attempted to go through channels to resolve it, then follows certain procedures and attempts to safeguard the trusts he has been given. Whistleblowers do not simply download every classified document they can get hold of and dump it to a specifically anti-American group who will publish all said information on the internet for friend and foe alike to peruse. No, that would be more akin to … hmmm…. what’s the word I’m looking for? Oh yeah: TRAITOR.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 1:18 PM

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 7:10 AM

Yep. Though I don’t claim to be perfect, nor sinless. I actually don’t know many conservative Christians who do.

Nice strawman as I never said anything of the sort. My point is that cheering a man’s execution is the opposite of what Christ taught. But you know that and are too stubborn to admit that simple fact.

Actually, I resorted to almost the entirety of what is called “The Law”.

You cited the UCMJ for espionage but you completely failed to answer my original question about what specifically it was that Manning did or said that would establish the aggravating factors that would result in a capital punishment that you were calling for. You have simply drawn legal conclusions while providing no facts or analysis that explain why you drew those conclusions.

You said “He admitted what he did.” So what did he admit? Now is your chance to make me look stupid. Oh yeah, you have better things to do than actually substantiate your claim with facts. My bad.

And Cicero? Really? You couldn’t find anything that Jesus said to support you, so then you went to Exodus and Deuteronomy. Now you are citing pagans? What’s next…Chairman Mao? Of course, your temperament is better suited to the Roman’s idea of justice or perhaps Islam? Did you know that Cicero had 5 people killed with no due process? It makes perfect sense that you would cite him.

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 4:45 PM

No. A whistleblower has a specific grievance, has attempted to go through channels to resolve it, then follows certain procedures and attempts to safeguard the trusts he has been given.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 1:18 PM

Says who?

You keep using the words traitor, treason, and espionage, but they do not mean what you think they mean.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Bradley Manning joined the United States army, he took an oath like every other soldier. He was assigned into a position of responsibility, and in all appearances, violated his oath and responsibility. He is being tried under UCMJ and will have to face whatever consequences that are handed down. IMO, I don’t see any easy way out for Manning’s activities. Why?…Because the military will never set a precedent of, or condone the leaking of classified information.

byteshredder on December 2, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Nice strawman as I never said anything of the sort.

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Really? Sure seems you implied it.

Do you abide by all of the laws of Exodus and Deuteronomy? No,….

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM

But, no, there was no attempt to label me as a hypocrite.

you completely failed to answer my original question about what specifically it was that Manning did or said that would establish the aggravating factors that would result in a capital punishment

OK. Here goes.

(c) A sentence of death may be adjudged by a court-martial for an offense under this section (article) only if the members unanimously find, beyond a reasonable doubt, one or more of the following aggravating factors:

(2) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of substantial damage to the national security.
(3) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of death to another person.

Manning worked in Intel. He had been fully briefed on and understood the consequences of releasing classified information. He released Secret information (as a minimum):

(2) “Secret” shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security.

Since the next step up is “exceptionally grave damage”, Secret info clearly falls within “a grave risk of substantial damage”. Some of the information he passed was classified because of the source, specifically “humint” – that is, it was received from folks whose lives would be in danger if the source of the information was revealed. (That would be #3.)

So what did he admit? Now is your chance to make me look stupid.

The evidence provided by outside sources (and used to arrest Manning) included chats with a hacker/journalist where he admits to accessing classified info and providing it to Assange.

You couldn’t find anything that Jesus said to support you, so then you went to Exodus and Deuteronomy.

If you’re a Christian, then you believe Jesus was the ultimate source for Genesis through Deuteronomy the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus frequently quoted from the Old Testament (including Genesis through Deuteronomy) as well.

Now you are citing pagans? What’s next…Chairman Mao?

Wow, that’s a mighty leap. BTW, would it have been better if I had quoted Barry Goldwater, instead? Cicero is the origin of the line in his 1964 acceptance speech, “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”

Oh, and Jesus’ own half-brother quoted non-scriptural sources, too [Jude 14-15]:

Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

That’s from the First Book of Enoch, about a century before Christ – and not canonical in Judaism or Christianity.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 5:19 PM

I quoted the definition of espionage above. That’s not whistleblowing. But, you’re not really arguing, are you? You’re just chanting your POV as loudly and as often as you can in an attempt to drown out reality.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 9:27 PM

He’s not a traitor, nor did he commit treason, nor do his acts meet your definition of espionage. He’s a whistleblower, uncovering the lies and crimes of government.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 9:47 AM

There is no such thing as a “whistleblower” when secret operational military intel is released. And Manning did not release just some salacious “lie” of government, he released the entire mass of operational intelligence info he had access to.

Basically, Dante, your claim is a brazen lie.

SPQR on December 2, 2012 at 10:24 PM

There is no such thing as a “whistleblower” when secret operational military intel is released. And Manning did not release just some salacious “lie” of government, he released the entire mass of operational intelligence info he had access to.

Basically, Dante, your claim is a brazen lie.

SPQR on December 2, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Another created fantasty. Of course there is such a thing.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 10:53 PM

I quoted the definition of espionage above. That’s not whistleblowing. But, you’re not really arguing, are you? You’re just chanting your POV as loudly and as often as you can in an attempt to drown out reality.

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 9:27 PM

Actually, you didn’t quote a definition of espionage.

Regardless, I was unaware that Julian Assange and Wikileaks and become a foreign nation. Your selected text does not apply. Releasing info to a whistleblower organization is neither traitorous, nor an act of espionage. You are failing in what barely passes for an argument.

Dante on December 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM

GWB on December 2, 2012 at 9:27 PM

I thought you had better things to do?

Not going to do your work for you as I have plenty of other things need doing.

Apparently not. You can cite Cicero, Goldwater and the Gnostic gospels (!) but you can’t back up you statement with anything other than “outside sources”. You said Manning admitted to treason/espionage and that’s why you felt so comfortable cheering the death penalty for him even though he is presumed innocent and has been convicted of nothing, much less treason or espionage. Stop being a weasel and put up or shut up. Quote Manning where he admits some act that would qualify for espionage or admit that you can’t and be done with it.

And Jesus was confronted with an execution at least once. I think he said something about casting the first stone…But but Exodus! Deuteronomy! Cicero!

Go ahead and come up with your next justification…if you’re not too busy that is.

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 11:58 PM

(12:26:09 PM) bradass87: lets just say *someone* i know intimately well, has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones described… and been transferring that data from the classified networks over the “air gap” onto a commercial network computer… sorting the data, compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired aussie who can’t seem to stay in one country very long =L

(12:49:38 PM) bradass87: i immediately recognized that they were from an NSA database, and i felt comfortable enough to come forward

(12:50:20 PM) bradass87: so… right after thanksgiving timeframe of 2009

(12:52:33 PM) bradass87: Hilary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning, and finds an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format to the public… =L

If that isn’t good enough for you, feel free to peruse the rest of the chat logs.

You can cite … the Gnostic gospels….

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Where did I cite those? Jude? If you think Jude is a Gnostic Gospel, you *really* need to pick up a Bible. Hint: it’s right between 3rd Epistle of John and Revelation. If you’re talking about the First Book Of Enoch, that was what Jude (the half-brother of Jesus) was quoting. And, since it was likely written about a century before Christ, it doesn’t exactly qualify as a Gnostic Gospel. (And, of course, I cited it to show how even scripture quotes non-scriptural sources, cf your point earlier.)

Stop being a weasel and put up or shut up.

iwasbornwithit on December 2, 2012 at 11:58 PM

So pleasant dealing with someone qualified to judge others, while simultaneously castigating them for judging others. At least you haven’t had to use *s to type any names, unlike some.

GWB on December 3, 2012 at 12:48 AM

holy moly, the pamphlet for internet argueing put out by the communo-sharia-anti-american-gay crowd must be a best giveawayer as i see the same 2 or 3 tactics used by ALL obamaites when “discussing” reasons the leftists should be put to death.

tm11999 on December 3, 2012 at 6:08 AM

So glad we got that gays-in-the-military thing sorted out …

It’s almost sit-com-worthy for Manning’s main statements on what could cause major international incidents to be about …. himself and how he felt. We all really needed to know about the poor baby. We were worried for a moment.

He has no idea what his disclosures may have done to real people around the world, fixated as he is on his own nobility and self-image.

Clearly, he had no business being in a position of trust, since he is fragile and unstable. This case should cause a review of hiring and training in the security services.

virgo on December 3, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Dante, the break with reality in you is strong. Dumping the entire operational intel database is not “whistleblowing”. And its telling that you can’t even describe off the cuff what great sin was being exposed.

SPQR on December 3, 2012 at 9:38 AM

This little wuss hasn’t been convicted and shot yet?

georgeofthedesert on December 3, 2012 at 9:59 AM

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