Quotes of the day

posted at 10:41 pm on November 27, 2012 by Allahpundit

Congressional Democrats are starting to draw a much tougher line on entitlements in the increasingly messy fiscal cliff talks, warning Republicans to keep their hands off Social Security and Medicare benefits…

For many Democrats, these entitlement programs are part of their core identity — aggressively protecting the social safety net programs created by the New Deal and the Great Society is as much a part of the progressive worldview as tax cuts and smaller government are for conservatives. And if President Barack Obama reaches a bipartisan deal with GOP leaders that cuts entitlements, he can expect a rebellion from his allies on the Hill — that is, unless he wins what they consider major concessions from Republicans on taxes.

“Let them put revenue on the table first,” veteran Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) told POLITICO. “I don’t want to hear, ‘Oh well, we’ll close loopholes.’ What the hell does that mean? That’s nothing.”

***

Durbin frequently deviated from his script but the message was clear: Democrats should engage in debate over how to revamp Medicare and Medicaid, but not right now.

His effort to siphon off changes to entitlement programs from the fiscal cliff debate that must be resolved by Dec. 31 outraged Republicans, who feel like they’ve gone out on a limb by embracing changes to the Tax Code that would net more revenue.

“By ruling out any meaningful changes to our entitlement programs, Sen. Durbin and like-minded Democrats are threatening a nose dive off the fiscal cliff that our economy cannot afford,” said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio…

“If they are backing off entitlements, this is going to be a very difficult 30 days,” Chambliss said.

***

Two staunch liberals, Senators Tom Harkin of Iowa and John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, said in a letter to Mr. Obama that he should “reject changes to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security that would cut benefits, shift costs to states, alter the structure of these critical programs, or force vulnerable populations to bear the burden of deficit reduction.”

More than 40 House members, led by the Congressional Progressive Caucus, declare in a resolution that any deal on taxes and spending “should not cut Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security benefits.”

Republicans say the revenue to be gained from Mr. Obama’s tax proposals would be dwarfed by the growing costs of the benefit programs.

***

Elections do have consequences, and Mr. Obama ran on a clear platform of increasing taxes on the wealthy. But he was clear on something else, too: Deficit reduction must be “balanced,” including spending cuts as well as tax increases. Since 60 percent of the federal budget goes to entitlement programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, there’s no way to achieve balance without slowing the rate of increase of those programs.

This could be accomplished in a progressive manner, shielding the poorest beneficiaries from cuts. But that seems less likely to be achieved if progressives boycott serious negotiations by pretending that Social Security and Medicare are sustainable with no reform at all.

Mr. Obama has understood this since at least 2009, when he told The Post’s editorial board that he would tackle entitlement reform…

Four years later, has the moment arrived? Since his reelection, Mr. Obama has fueled a campaign-style effort to pressure Republicans to give ground on taxes. That’s fine, but it won’t be enough. At some point, he has to prepare the American people — and his own supporters most of all — for the “hard decisions” required to put the country on a sound financial footing. That means spending cuts, it means entitlement reform, it means compromise, it means a balanced solution that will please neither House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) nor Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.). Only one person is in a position to make it happen.

***

Obama senior adviser David Plouffe predicted that the fiscal cliff negotiations are “going to get hairy” in the coming weeks, saying President Barack Obama is committed to achieving the elusive “big deal” on taxes and spending he and Speaker of the House John Boehner have tried to strike for more than 18 months…

“The only way that gets done is for Republicans again to step back and get mercilessly criticized by Grover Norquist and the Right, and it means that Democrats are going to have to do some tough things on spending and entitlements that means that they’ll criticized on by their left,” Plouffe said at his alma mater in conversation with former McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt…

Plouffe added that while the White House wants to engage in comprehensive tax reform, they know they must also “carefully” address the “chief drivers of our deficit”: Medicare and Medicaid.

***

Cavuto reassured McCain that Norquist is aware of such an anti-earmarks record, but noted that “what concerns him is that Republicans seem to be running around with the tail between their leg after the election and acquiescing on revenues and letting the Democrats stream roll them and he says they’re going to pay for that two years from now.” He asked the senator: “Do you feel threatened?”

McCain’s response:

Republicans have to be for some things and we need to be for things and we need to be for spending cuts. We need to be for entitlement reform. That has to be done if we are ever going to be serious about this debt issue. I don’t think we should disrespect Grover Norquist any more than I believe we should disrespect the Heritage Foundation or, AEI, or any others. I respect them. We just don’t always agree.

***

[T]hree powerful unions — the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union, and the National Education Association — are sending 200 local labor leaders to the Senate on Wednesday to lobby Democrats on “creating good jobs, protecting Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Education, and not cutting vital services that millions of Americans rely on” during the lame-duck session.

Nonetheless, several key aides to Republican leaders told RCP in separate conversations that “the only Democrat who matters is President Obama.” They reason that enough Democratic legislators will fall in line after the White House announces its stance on any potential deal. One Republican source privy to some of the talks between Obama and congressional Republicans told RCP that the president has shown “some willingness to talk Medicare as long as it doesn’t affect his health-care bill.”

RCP asked a handful of those leadership aides whether Senate Republicans would consider raising tax rates on the top 2 percent of earners — as Democrats are pushing — if the White House and Democratic leaders promised to move forward with entitlement reform next year. Responses were muddled: The consensus was that they might begrudgingly go along, but that it would be extremely difficult for such a concession to pass muster with House Republicans, even if Speaker John Boehner tried hard to sell it.

***

1. If there is no bill, the U.S. economy will probably dip into recession for much/most/all of 2013, and it’s impossible to predict whether such a recession would be short-lived.

2. A 2013 recession would be terrible for the country and terrible for the Obama Presidency. It would limit the President’s options across his entire policy agenda, economic and non-economic. And it could define and dominate his entire second term.

3. President Obama believes #1 and #2, and therefore avoiding the risk of triggering a recession with his veto is an even higher policy priority than his fiscal policy goal.

4. The President wants to get things done. He cares more about his own chances for policy success (across the entire breadth of his agenda, whenever he figures out what it is) than he cares about relative political blame. A scenario in which Republicans get most of the blame for a veto-triggered recession is still a loser for him if it means he can’t accomplish his second term goals.

If my assumptions are correct, then the President cannot afford to veto a bill and have no compromise enacted.

***

Matthews sure got former Wyoming Sen. Simpson excited over the GOP’s recent war on Grover’s decades-old pledge to not raise taxes. “So how do you deal with guys who came to stop government, or Grover wandering the earth in his white robe saying he wants to drown government in the bathtub?,” Simpson asked to no one in particular. “I hope he slips in there with it. We’ll put some soap in the tub.”

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

***



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Call Obama’s bluff. Republicans should vote Present, let the Democrats negotiate with themselves and make it clear that Obama and the Democrats own this. I don’t think anything they’ll come up with will avoid a recession. Then the Republicans in Congress immediately introduce a series of laws to raise taxes on the wealthy in a way that disproportionately impact wealthy Democrats. Start with eliminating the mortgage interest deduction on homes worth more than $250,000. That would affect California, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts, all blue states with high property values. Next we eliminate the federal deduction on state and local income taxes, which tend to be higher in blue states and Democratic dominated cities. Tax the investment income of university endowments and foundations, those tilt left as well. Tax trust funds – conservatives are more likely to make wealth, not inherit it. Restore the 20% tax on movie gross revenues that we had following WWII to pay down that debt, only extend it to all entertainment like music and video downloads, concerts, CDs and DVDs. Institute a 33% tax on trial lawyers’ contingency fees (lawyers like that 33% figure). Sell them all as soaking the rich.

Frankly I think we should let the Democrats drive the country’s economy over the cliff. It appears that the only way to convince Americans that the Democrats will harm the country is to let them.

rokemronnie on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

AZfederalist on November 27, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Marvelously stated.

VorDaj on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:24 AM

Honey, you ain’t the only one :-)

I have read and read until I am blue in the face… I do think we have to endure a total collapse of our economy, and then maybe just maybe someone will come forth and set us on the right track…

There are others here who are way smarter than I am…

Perhaps someone will kindly explain it to us eh?

How about it :-D

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

Well ya’ll good night. I’m out for the night.

AZfederalist on November 28, 2012 at 12:23 AM

Night AZ.

Oh boy,the Tear gas is launching steady….haha,ahem!

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:21 AM

You have to tell me who to root for, Canada. I just don’t know. I’m for whoever you are for, unless it’s those flippin’ Minnesota Groundhogs or whatever. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 12:31 AM

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

Thanks for the response, Scrumpy. Nice to see you, BTW.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:33 AM

rokemronnie on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

I Like the cut of your jib matey!!

Well said!! Makes sense that does :-)

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:33 AM

Night AZF!!

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:34 AM

Nice to see you too 4Grace!!

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:34 AM

Starve the Looters, from the left, to the right.

Schadenfreude on November 28, 2012 at 12:35 AM

rokemronnie on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

And this too.

VorDaj on November 28, 2012 at 12:36 AM

Ohhhhhhhhhhh we really cranking out the comments tonight!! 109!!

I gots a fevah!!

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:36 AM

112 lol

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:36 AM

Hopey has a PLAN,news to me!!!!!

27 November 2012 Last updated at 14:21 ET
Barack Obama rallies support for his ‘fiscal cliff’ plan
*********************************************************

US President Barack Obama is launching a week of public outreach in pressing his case for tax rises on the wealthy as the so-called fiscal cliff looms.

Mr Obama meets business leaders at the White House on Tuesday and members of middle-class families on Wednesday.

He wants Republicans to accept tax increases on the wealthy, while extending tax cuts for families earning $250,000 (£155,000) or less.

The fiscal cliff, a package of spending cuts and tax rises, hits on 1 January.

The measures, which would suck about $600bn out of the economy, were intentionally engineered as part of a 2011 compromise between Mr Obama and congressional Republicans.
Recession alert

Negotiators then hoped it would spur the two sides to reach a long-term solution to the US budget deficit.

A US failure to step back from the fiscal cliff could help plunge the world back into recession, the OECD, which represents the world’s richest nations, warned on Tuesday.
(More….)
==========

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20517528

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:37 AM

Starve the Looters, from the left, to the right.

Schadenfreude on November 28, 2012 at 12:35 AM

Let them eat grass and cheese as they are sheeple and micele.

VorDaj on November 28, 2012 at 12:37 AM

when a Congress does not pass a budget for four years when required by the Constitution to do so every year, when a President negates laws passed by Congress by fiat or just exercising his whim not to enforce duly passed laws, we have stepped into a serious Constitutional crisis.

AZfederalist on November 27, 2012 at 11:58 PM

Teflon – no one cares and no one does anything against it. It’s a sure sign that the land is gone. She won’t last as long as Rome did.

Schadenfreude on November 28, 2012 at 12:39 AM

Campaigning alright!!

Obama ups campaign on fiscal cliff, irks Republicans
By Stephen Collinson (AFP) – 1 hour ago
***************************************

WASHINGTON — So much for the misty eyed, pre-election nostalgia over President Barack Obama’s last-ever campaign.

A few weeks on, the re-elected US leader is dusting off just retired retail politics skills, hoping to outflank Republicans over the “fiscal cliff” — an impasse over tax hikes and spending cuts that threatens to trigger a recession.

“Rather than sitting down with lawmakers of both parties and working out an agreement, he’s back out on the campaign trail, presumably with the same old talking points we’re all familiar with,” said Senate Republican minority leader Mitch McConnell.

(More…)
============
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gy4qqCPrbN2IplY2diycPHgd8v_A?docId=CNG.fb8374573956ccfe2a9a0781f15dddaf.31

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:41 AM

MeanWhile…………………….

Stocks slide on ‘fiscal cliff’ warning
POSTED November 27, 2012 8:18 p.m.
*********************************

NEW YORK (AP) — Stocks slumped on Wall Street Tuesday after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was frustrated by the lack of progress in talks over the U.S. budget impasse in Washington.

The Dow Jones industrial average closed down 89.24 points to 12,878.13. The Dow and other indexes had been moving between small gains and losses for most of the day, then turned lower after Reid’s comments in the early afternoon.

“We have to get away from the happy talk and start talking about specific things,” Reid told reporters in televised comments.
(More…)
============

http://www.mantecabulletin.com/section/150/article/59781/

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:43 AM

Schadenfreude on November 28, 2012 at 12:35 AM

Not shocked at all by these numbers… thing is who else is really gonna see them? More conservatives, tho any good links like this I pass to lib ‘friends’ and all they say is “That’s a conservative site, they lie and manipulate the numbers” and such like that. Even tho these are learned fellows, my lib ‘friends’ will find any excuse not to believe or even consider…CBO or not…Facts and figures or not…

Sigh… I can’t win… :-(

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:43 AM

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:41 AM

Heya, canopfor. BTW, how large is your house/property? Got room for a few disillusioned American buddies? ;)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:45 AM

Hopey has a PLAN,news to me!!!!!

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:37 AM

Of course he has a plan, it’s called the Cloward-Pivens Strategy, otherwise know as the Thelma & Louise Fiscal Cliff Strategy… :P

SWalker on November 28, 2012 at 12:47 AM

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:43 AM

Thanks good friend for keeping us apprised of happenings…

Take care and have a great night!

God bless everyone here…

Good night all, it’s been a helluva time!! :-)

American Pie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:48 AM

112 lol

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:36 AM

Scrumpy:

Lol,well,heres another,if only the WH could be cleaned out
like this situation:)
=====================

Navy fires president, provost of Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey for mismanagement

By Associated Press, Published: November 27 | Updated: Wednesday, November 28, 12:08 AM
**********************

WASHINGTON — Navy Secretary Ray Mabus has fired the top two administrators of the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., for mismanagement and fostering an atmosphere of defying Navy rules and regulations.(More….)
=====================================

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/navy-fires-president-provost-of-naval-postgraduate-school-in-monterey-for-mismanagement/2012/11/27/ac8ff50a-38f7-11e2-9258-ac7c78d5c680_story.html?wprss=rss_social-world-headlines

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:48 AM

What needs to be done will take 2 or 3 generations, and it has to start IN THE HOME!!!! To be of any good or effective…

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:11 AM

This. IMO I’m not sure even the “conservatives” have the gonads to do what is necessary in their homes. Especially when it comes to how to educate their children. How many conservatives still send their children to institutions of indoctrination and defend it with “our schools aren’t as bad as the others.”

chemman on November 28, 2012 at 12:49 AM

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:37 AM

Of course he has a plan, it’s called the Cloward-Pivens Strategy, otherwise know as the Thelma & Louise Fiscal Cliff Strategy… :P

SWalker on November 28, 2012 at 12:47 AM

SWalker:

Oooh dats good,I do hope Reid/Pelosium are in the back seat,
when Hopey gets unstuck from the ditch,with gas pedal to the
floor,and over they go!
Ahem:)

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Of course he has a plan, it’s called the Cloward-Pivens Strategy, otherwise know as the Thelma & Louise Fiscal Cliff Strategy… :P

SWalker on November 28, 2012 at 12:47 AM

Agreed. I believe another strategy is to deflate & demoralize his opposition. Just get them out of the way, so he can more quickly implement his game plan. I believe it’s already working…to some degree.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:51 AM

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:48 AM

Goodnight, Scrumpy. Hang in there!!

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:52 AM

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:41 AM

Heya, canopfor. BTW, how large is your house/property? Got room for a few disillusioned American buddies? ;)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:45 AM

4Grace:

I feel your pain,(no joke),this could be a business opportunity,
like a Hudson Bay store,er,camping grounds!:)

Oh,two bedroom,and my Command AND Control Basement Blogging
Bunker:)

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 12:54 AM

I’m truly seeking a response here. Maybe I’m just misunderstanding the meaning and repercussions of the L.i.B. thought process.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 12:24 AM

All camps believe it is burning anyway. That’s critical. The economy is floating in the air like a cartoon character and it’s going to plunge because anything that could have been done wasn’t. So move, brace as best you can, and let the people of America who made the choice get what they wanted — the consequences of their own choices.

Multiple camps go from there. From Objectivists that want to get on with rebuilding, to people who want to get on with dissociating themselves from the people they consider to be utterly dead weight who are never going to have any virtue, to people who just want to pull the band-aid and shorten the pain.

You are like Jackie and INC and AZ and all — you think the fire can be tamped out and the situation is still salvageable.

I am in the camp of “going my own way.” :) I don’t know if it’s salvageable or not. I suspect it’s a tar-like pit that we can get out of after we give up some skin, and a fire we can put out after a whole lot has been burned up. It’s almost a worst-case scenario: I don’t think we get a clean restart. Some evil changes are here to stay. For a while. So I’ve resigned my patriotism and am now paying attention to order: God, the guideposts he put in me to accomplish (my assignment; otherwise life’s wasted), my family (and other people I can help along their paths) — eventually wandering back to Country, to America — but with uncertainty, because I don’t know who she wants to be anymore. This puts me at odds with my Sarah. Probably you too.

But, please don’t yell at me for not “loving my country” or something. :) My position doesn’t involve moving to France. I’m just saying that I’m watching her pack, and if she’s leaving me, I have to let her go. I am hoarse from my previous pleading and I’m sort of done with it. Maybe she wants to join a commune. K. I’m not. If she wants to stand for something I can still believe in, I’ll stand with her until I die.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 12:57 AM

Ugh,I could be here all night…..Afghanistam Bank,was running a Ponzi Scheme,this story broke a day ago!

Report: Kabul Bank sent hundreds of millions of dollars out of Afghanistan – @AP

5 mins ago from bigstory.ap.org by editor
=============================================

Report: Kabul Bank sent millions of dollars abroad
By DEB RIECHMANN
— Nov. 28 12:29 AM EST
***********************

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Hundreds of millions of dollars from Kabul Bank were spirited out of Afghanistan — some smuggled in airline food trays — to bank accounts in more than two dozen countries, according to an independent review released on Wednesday about massive fraud that led to the collapse of the nation’s largest financial institution.

The report, which was financed by international donors, offers new details about how the men at Kabul Bank and their friends and relatives got rich off $861 million in fraudulent loans in what the International Monetary Fund has called a Ponzi scheme that used customer deposits and operated under nascent banking oversight in the war-torn country.

The report describes Kabul Bank as a sophisticated operation with one set of books for the eyes of regulators and another in the back room that logged how those running the bank and others were fattening their wallets.(More…)
=================================

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/report-kabul-bank-sent-millions-dollars-abroad#overlay-context=article/navy-fires-president-provost-grad-school

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 1:01 AM

Good night all, it’s been a helluva time!! :-)

American Pie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U

Scrumpy on November 28, 2012 at 12:48 AM

Scrumpy:

Night Scrump,yup,the Bye..Bye..Miss America Pie,Russian R/T
story:)

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 1:04 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 12:57 AM

Thank you, Axe, for the honest response. I would never yell at you, or anyone else here, and claim that you do not “love your country.” I’m just not sure what camp I’m in at the moment and I was seeking some clarification on the Let it Burn camp.

I do agree that it is indeed a time to prioritize who and what are most important. My list pretty much matches up with yours.

Again, thanks for your thoughts. :)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:07 AM

Well,I too,am bugging out,take care Axe,4Grace,

Good Night Everyone,From Canada———————-:)

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 1:14 AM

Good Night Everyone,From Canada———————-:)

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 1:14 AM

Sleep well, canopfor!

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:17 AM

Good Night Everyone,From Canada———————-:)

canopfor on November 28, 2012 at 1:14 AM

Night Canada. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 1:24 AM

Fine. I’ll mop. Always alone with the mop.

Betty. Always alone with the mop, “Betty.”

And the bucket. The champagne bucket.

Dancing with Betty and chilling campaign.

*sigh*

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 1:27 AM

rokemronnie on November 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

I live in Cali, but I like the way you think. I read an article the other day from an investment firm that believes we should go over the fiscal cliff, as it will allow the recovery to happen faster. I’m willing to pay the extra 4K in taxes. I just want everyone to have to pay, as it might make them pay more attention to the way government spends our money. If we don’t, we will not get real deficit reduction, and we will just kick the can down the road one more time… Make the democrats own there mess, as they were the ones who made sure the legislation had this crisis, make them own it all, let it burn to the ground. I welcome the populace learning the truth and where the money goes.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 1:27 AM

Ha. I’m still watching your vid. I’ve never seen it before.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:33 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Hi Grace, how you doing?

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:34 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:07 AM

i’m sympathetic with the l.i.b. crowd…after all, like them (i imagine) i’ve been voting responsibly for a long long time. And, sadly, i seem to be on the losing side more often than not. I think conservatives generally have been correct in their analyses of fiscal and social and foreign affairs.

But they have a entrenched machine that is very happy to get opm and favorable regs.

Regrettably Rs don’t talk about regulatory capture..etc…which might give them street cred. And a lot of Rs represent businesses in their home district (Halley barbour’s friends at KFC needs those illegals) and so the R party has a lot of corruption to deal with

so what to do? Let it burn would be very very ugly…except for the rich and connected. And, contrary to some suggestions, I don’t think history is kind to former socialist countries.

So, i think we have to choose very wisely what hill to fight on. And I don’t think there’s any simple answer. But Rs need to seriously develop a vision and train its members to articulate how that vision relates to people and their lives.

If they are going to lose…then they should do it big…they need to call out the left and the media harshly. Socialism and state run capitalism doesn’t work…and they need to be in everyone’s face.

but first they need to purify the party from its corrupt elements..and call them out too.

so i’m not a l.i.b. strictly…but nor am i optimistic. Rs have failed epically too often…there is something rotten at the core

r keller on November 28, 2012 at 1:36 AM

But they have a entrenched machine that is very happy to get opm and favorable regs.

…i mean the Dems

r keller on November 28, 2012 at 1:39 AM

Hi Grace, how you doing?

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Hello, uncommon! Great to see you. I’m doing well, thank you. How about yourself?

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:40 AM

Ha. I’m still watching your vid. I’ve never seen it before.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:33 AM

:) THAT’S TERRIBLE!

But it was just fan mail for Canada. There’s only one canopfor. There can be only one.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 1:41 AM

Sorry, but I’m kind of tired lately of the “Let-it-burn” crowd or the “Going-my-own-way” stuff. Imagine where we would be if the founders of our country had such defeatist leanings. And they fought a tyranny that makes the current one look like a day at the beach. They were out-armed, out-manned, and certainly had no recently-lost (and narrowly, I might add) election to bring them down.

They fought for freedom, they died for freedom, and in so doing gave birth to freedom. Those men and women who put their lives and families and property on the line back then would have loved to be in our position now, having just a chance to elect their leader instead of having one imposed on them by virtue of their birth.

If you believe that this fight is over, that all is lost, that there’s nothing that can be done, please step aside (as many colonialists did back then) and stay out of our way. We have a war to win.

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM

r keller on November 28, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Politicians are rotten to the core, as they use some form of “free stuff” to get elected. Politicians are the problem, as they are more than willing to spend others money to garner the vote. This isn’t a R vs. D problem. It is the nature of the beast. As long as we allow the politicians to make money, and receive money from any interest group, this is the inevitable outcome of society. Tourquemada stated it best, “when the populace realizes they can vote themselves the treasury, democracy is lost.”

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:40 AM

Hanging in there… dealing with a dying father and the stupidity of the general masses. Life goes on, and no matter what we do it doesn’t stop for any one individual. That which doesn’t kill us,makes us stronger :)

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:44 AM

so i’m not a l.i.b. strictly…but nor am i optimistic. Rs have failed epically too often…there is something rotten at the core

r keller on November 28, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Thanks for that, rk. I think that I also fall in between the L.i.B. and the very optimistic groups. And I definitely agree with your comments about the Repubs. I’ve about given up on being able to get rid of the rottenness. Term limits would help, but that ain’t gonna happen. I swear, there must be something in that D.C. culture more insidious than the Mafia. It just sucks them in and they are there for life.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:40 AM

What is sad, is that my parents came to the US from a socialist country before I was born. My father went into the hospital on Nov 6th. I truly think his heart was broken based on the outcome of the election. He left Europe for this country based on our freedom, and chance to succeed, I think he saw that die on election day.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:48 AM

Imagine where we would be if the founders of our country had such defeatist leanings. And they fought a tyranny that makes the current one look like a day at the beach. They were out-armed, out-manned, and certainly had no recently-lost (and narrowly, I might add) election to bring them down.

They fought for freedom, they died for freedom, and in so doing gave birth to freedom. Those men and women who put their lives and families and property on the line back then would have loved to be in our position now, having just a chance to elect their leader instead of having one imposed on them by virtue of their birth.

If you believe that this fight is over, that all is lost, that there’s nothing that can be done, please step aside (as many colonialists did back then) and stay out of our way. We have a war to win.

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Yeah. That Washington fought tooth and nail for Country. Which is why we’re still British. Those men turned against their country. The sneaked around and talked treason in badly lit rooms.

They fought for their principles, independent of their country.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 1:49 AM

btw, here’s a glimpse of what l.i.b. looks like

http://portuguese-american-journal.com/terceira-u-s-to-reduce-military-presence-in-lajes-air-field-azores/

we may leave the azores. and the chicoms just might take our place.

now china has lots of interests in africa….and i think that the azores would be a pretty nice base to have.

r keller on November 28, 2012 at 1:50 AM

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:44 AM

I’m so very sorry to hear about your father. Prayers to you, him and your family.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:52 AM

r keller on November 28, 2012 at 1:50 AM

Nothing like giving up one of the most important airfields the US has ever had. It would allow the Chinese to have an influence in a region never conceived of and allow the to cut off trade routes… As you can see, I’m very disappointed with such a decision.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:56 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:52 AM

Thank you, your compassion is most appreciated.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:57 AM

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:48 AM

My heart breaks for your parents. We have quite a few posters at H/A that either escaped communist/socialist countries, or that have parents that did the same. I often think that their fear and anger and sorrow must be even greater than our own.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:58 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 1:58 AM

It just astounds me how we could disappoint these people, I guess we really are a population of low information voters, as their children, and grandchildren could listen to their life story, or see how we have progressed down the path that they left. We have become a spoiled and worthless country, and may the generations that have seen to our demise, wonder why their elders cry. though I think this is a wasted wish.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:04 AM

I would like to see the following stricken from the English language.

Compromise

Bi-partisanship

Fair/Fair Share

Immigration Reform

I gag when I hear any of the above. The very meaning of words has been corrupted.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:09 AM

He left Europe for this country based on our freedom, and chance to succeed, I think he saw that die on election day.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:48 AM

It didn’t die. It can’t.

People keep thinking they get to decide these things for other people, and they don’t. If America wants to be about EBT cards and the finest national healthcare system ever to fall from Utopia, nothing will stop it. If it wants to be about the ridiculous idea that people can govern themselves — nothing will stop that either. TXUS is tired of my calculating and philosophising, and I’m tired of the flag waving — and after a good rest, we’ll both be less tired, and I’ll still be calculating and turning my head sideways, and TXUS will still be pulling the flag all the way up the pole.

. . . I’m trying to say, America, that America, is inside your dad. It’s his choice. It’s that America that binds us into something, regardless of who’s drawing the new maps.

I hope he’s gaining ground. :) My prayers, too.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:09 AM

+Revenue. It doesn’t mean what they think it means. :)

+Moderate. There has to be a meaningful word to substitute when “moderate” might actually mean something.

:) I like this . . .

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:13 AM

What is sad, is that my parents came to the US from a socialist country before I was born. My father went into the hospital on Nov 6th. I truly think his heart was broken based on the outcome of the election. He left Europe for this country based on our freedom, and chance to succeed, I think he saw that die on election day.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 1:48 AM

Please tell your Dad that we hope he gets better soon and that the war here is far from lost. This was a setback, for sure, but conservatives still control the House and most of the Governorships and state legislatures. The election for president was very close, too, no wipe out. Also, what will happen in the next two to four years, however bad it will be, will ensure the death of socialism and liberal dogma and the Democrat Party, for that matter, in this country. The realignment, along with the resurgence of liberty, is just around the corner. Patience and hard work are the watchwords.

God bless your Father.

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 2:15 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Oh yeah, good ones.
Lolz, I almost added the Princess Bride line myself. :)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:19 AM

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM

I agree with you, TXUS. The time for wallowing in defeatism is over.

By the way, not all of the colonists were British, either. Many were Dutch, for instance. These were men and women who had decided to build a nation BEFORE they ever got to this ‘new world’. They’d been driven out of their native lands by religious persecution because they dared to form new congregations as ‘Separatists’, believing the Church of England was corrupt. That’s one of the reason’s they were in Leiden, in the Dutch Republic, where they had freedom of religion. A group of investors “The Merchant Investors” offered to back them to go to the ‘new world’ and establish a colony. They sought out Myles Standish and hired him to provide security for the new colony before they ever sailed. They didn’t rely on a king or the British empire to protect them. How do I know this? Because I’m descended from the First Families.

We can either get to work and see that what we believe in get’s CONSERVED, or we can roll over and let the progressives destroy everything our antecedents built. I’ve never stopped writing my congressmen, calling regularly to demand they stand up for our principles, and writing and calling any congressman whom I believe a little pressure might sway in our cause.

The progressives, including the White House, are mobilizing their campaign personnel to do that very thing for their side. It’s imperative that we fight back now… not later.

As for me, I’ve had it with the defeatism on these threads. I’m not coming back until people get a grip and realize that they can either wallow in misery for four years, relying on the rest of us to fight this battle for them, or they can pitch in and make an effort to help out, pressuring their congressmen, talking to their friends and neighbors, and see that our First Principles are protected and secure. As you say, TXUS, they can either help out, or get out of the way.

I wish you well, TXUS, and all the others who want to get to work and help preserve this nation and defend our principles.

thatsafactjack on November 28, 2012 at 2:19 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

I do hold your optimistic belief, as we have always rebounded, and I believe we will again, but it will come at a heavy price and we will go through some very rough times. I appreciate your compassion for my family, and thank you for the well wishes. Unfortunately this country will not recover till everything crashes and burns, and we are forced back to the basics and the original constitution.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:20 AM

“Let them put revenue on the table first,” veteran Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) told POLITICO. “I don’t want to hear, ‘Oh well, we’ll close loopholes.’ What the hell does that mean? That’s nothing.”

By “revenue,” I’m assuming she means money from taxes, i.e., other people’s money. Can some politician on our side start calling taxes “taking people’s money” instead of “taxes?” Look across the table and challenge this nitwit. “You want to take people’s money. I want to stop spending money we don’t have.” Yeesh, I was surrounded by the likes of her in Maryland most of my life.

Dongemaharu on November 28, 2012 at 2:23 AM

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 2:15 AM

Good evening, TXUS. I’m actually looking toward the states (rather than the House) to help us through the coming onslaught. I think a coalition of conservative Governors might be able to salvage a few things. If not the country, then at least some Red states.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:24 AM

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 2:15 AM

Thank you TXUS, but I fear he won’t last till Christmas. He has had a good life, and the family is at peace just knowing he he where he wishes to be, at home. I appreciate all of the compassion that HA posters provide, as you are truly patriots and appreciate the greatness of this country. My father believed in that greatness, and I’m sure, still does. It is just sad that he will pass, knowing that a socialist is in the WH, as this was the biggest affront he could imagine.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:31 AM

thatsafactjack on November 28, 2012 at 2:19 AM

If you’re still around, good evening to you Jackie.

I agree that much of the talk is too defeatist. I am just trying to get a handle on what some of the terminology means. The Let it Burn, for example. I’m not ready to let it burn, but I am not optimistic about the immediate future. However, I refuse to let the Left break me. That is their desire, but it will not happen.

(I, too, am a direct descendant…John and Priscilla Alden.)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:33 AM

thatsafactjack on November 28, 2012 at 2:19 AM

(I, too, am a direct descendant…John and Priscilla Alden.)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:33 AM

Yeah, well, my grandmother had sex with an Injun, so — get off my land, basically. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:36 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:33 AM

When I say let it burn, I only mean in the sense of lettting the D’s have there tax increase, and I mean on everyone. I will pay the extra 4K a year, just to allow the lower income brackets to finally pay some taxes. I believe that this will create a desire in the populace to finally question how the government spends the cash. There is no bigger motivator, than being part of the problem, and seeing how it destroy’s America.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:37 AM

Yeah, well, my grandmother had sex with an Injun, so — get off my land, basically. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:36 AM

ROFL. Maybe you are related to Lizzie Warren?? (kidding!)

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:38 AM

My father believed in that greatness, and I’m sure, still does. It is just sad that he will pass, knowing that a socialist is in the WH, as this was the biggest affront he could imagine.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:31 AM

I’m sad for you. I can’t speak to it beyond that; it’s beyond my experience.

But then, look at you, what they gave you. :) They gave you to us, put another way. Talk about changing the stars.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:40 AM

It means about as much as your use of “revenue,” you hypocritical gesticulating polyp.

Axe on November 27, 2012 at 11:10 PM

That goes for that demon spawn infecting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as well.

rottenrobbie on November 28, 2012 at 2:42 AM

Give Obama and the Dems more rope.

Let them hang themselves as they wreck the economy.

Maybe the pain will wake up the idiots who voted for these idiots.

profitsbeard on November 28, 2012 at 2:42 AM

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:37 AM

OK, I get what you’re saying. However, do you really think the Dems will allow tax increases on anyone below $150k – 200k? It’s a great idea, but I don’t see it happening. Which is ironic, considering Obama and his constant “everyone has some skin in the game” crap.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:43 AM

thatsafactjack on November 28, 2012 at 2:19 AM

Appreciate you, too, Jackie, but it sounds like you’re saying goodbye to Hot Air for a while. Yes, the defeatism since the election has been deafening here, but leaders lead, and in so doing give strength to the cause. It is not about you or me, of course, or what we might want. It is far bigger than that, and you must stay here and keep the faith and the fight a’going.

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 2:45 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:40 AM

Yes, but it will take the destruction of our star to actually bring about change.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:43 AM

The tax increases they are talking about, will hit anyone making over 65K a year, does that sound rich to you? People are fools, it won’t effect the till it hits their pocket book. Hit their pocket books it will.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:51 AM

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:51 AM

Ah, my bad. I was speaking of only newly proposed taxes. But, yes, just letting the Bush cuts expire will affect many more people. Plus, I suspect there will be all kinds of new “fees” or whatever they choose to call them. The MSM will never call them out when the administration claims it didn’t raise taxes on the middle class.

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:56 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:43 AM

Hit their pocket books it will.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:51 AM

That’s something else that is bugging me. Generally, it seems like the insolvent welfare policies will hit the people that actually want them last. I mean, the very people that one might want to feel the pain and change their minds about what they are doing will be the last people to feel any actual pain. The general environment itself would have to be so sour that they felt it, even though their bills are all being paid.

Apologies for eves-dropping.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Off to bed.

Goodnight uncommon, Axe, TXUS and anyone else still around!

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:58 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Night Grace. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:59 AM

Apologies for eves-dropping.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:58 AM

None necessary, Axe. That has actually been one of my problems with the Let it Burn and Give Them Everything They Want theories. I understand where these theories are coming from, but like you, I think it will affect those that need to feel it the most a LONG time after everyone else.

That’s why I’m going to bed. That was gibberish. Sorry.

Goodnight!

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 3:03 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Yes, but when the government has to decide between the welfare and the tax paying recipient, it will create an interesting fight. As the old Chinese proverb says, ” May you live in strange and interesting times”

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 3:04 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 2:59 AM

You still out there my freind?

Chesty Puller!

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:11 AM

Thank you TXUS, but I fear he won’t last till Christmas. He has had a good life, and the family is at peace just knowing he he where he wishes to be, at home. I appreciate all of the compassion that HA posters provide, as you are truly patriots and appreciate the greatness of this country. My father believed in that greatness, and I’m sure, still does. It is just sad that he will pass, knowing that a socialist is in the WH, as this was the biggest affront he could imagine.

uncommon sense on November 28, 2012 at 2:31 AM

Lost my mother a few years ago, from a bout with cancer, when Obama was looking like the D nominee in the first election. She, too, was concerned about him and his socialism and told me that I must not let him get elected. She died before the election and thus was saved from what your father, unfortunately, has had to endure in that regard. But, please tell your dad that the fight is on, the cause endures, and that you and the rest of us will not let his dreams go unanswered.

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 3:11 AM

Chesty Puller!

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:11 AM

Sup, Fox :)

Light sparring with friends tonight, so I’m a little wiped out and slowly fading away. :) I’ll probably go back to snark patrol for a few days to recover. The sun is still going down at the wrong time where you are, I see.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

4Grace on November 28, 2012 at 2:58 AM

Night, Grace, sleep tight.

TXUS on November 28, 2012 at 3:17 AM

Looks like people livened up some since yesterday.

But we still got on 2 pages.

I think scrumpy livened it up.

SparkPlug on November 28, 2012 at 3:20 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

It is my friend it is, actually looks like we may get a late season typhoon, which would suck because I am supposed to be getting all gussied up this weekend in that nice suit the government told me I had to buy and we are going to our annual birthday party though a little late but hey its an island only so many places to rent to party you know:) Glad to see you guys are keeping the threads lively, Looks like the old spark is coming back, people are ready to channel their inner Kipling I see:)

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:23 AM

Axe

I do have good news though, I will be displacing from here late next spring so, one I get reunited with the Mrs, and two I will be back on your alls schedule:)

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:27 AM

I do have good news though, I will be displacing from here late next spring so, one I get reunited with the Mrs, and two I will be back on your alls schedule:)

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:27 AM

Wait, how long without the Mrs?

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:38 AM

*You know what, I don’t even want to know. By the time you find conversations with me interesting, it’s too damned long. :)

It is good news. You want the move though, right? If you want the move, it’s good news. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Ok, I will give you short history, since I know your attention span is wanting:) I got back this year in Feb, from a year in AFG, then I came here, this lovely little island in the Pacific, 4 months later and once I get back I will have been gone another year. See easy:) I will say that at least here she isn’t worried about me getting blown up or shot, after almost 25 years of doing this though you’d think that she would be used to it, all I can say is that God sent me an angel, and yes we won’t the move, setting us up for retirement in a few years:)

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:50 AM

Alan Simpson is a worm. When is he going to finally shut the hell up and just disappear?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on November 28, 2012 at 3:51 AM

sorry meant to say yes we want the move, very much so:)

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 3:52 AM

If it wasn’t for the ‘beautiful’ grandchildren, he wrote, ‘Mum and I would not be too concerned as each of you consciously, and with eyes wide open, crashes from one cock-up to the next. ‘It makes us weep that so many of these events are copulation driven, and then helplessly to see these lovely little people being so woefully let down by you, their parents.’

From the headlines. Two questions.

1. How’s this even a news article?

2. Where’s Resist? :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237665/Nick-Crews-Id-mortified-needed-benefits-Father-frustrated-email-adult-children-went-viral-says-regret-voicing-views.html

Alan Simpson is a worm. When is he going to finally shut the hell up and just disappear?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on November 28, 2012 at 3:51 AM

SWalker left you a note up there. I read it. No idea what it means. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:57 AM

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:57 AM

Listen, I am going to go running for a bit, so while I am gone ensure that you stay away from anything that has XXX on it. I know how you are:)

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 4:04 AM

SWalker left you a note up there. I read it. No idea what it means. :)

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 3:57 AM

Heh. Thanks for relaying the message. SWalker and I had a long math discussion one night many moons ago.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on November 28, 2012 at 4:04 AM

Ok, I will give you short history, since I know your attention span is wanting:) I got back this year in Feb, from a year in AFG, then I came here, this lovely little island in the Pacific, 4 months later and once I get back I will have been gone another year.

Way, way too long. :) Geez, now I’m in a hurry for you to get home.

My boy’s job was to put a wrench on a plane, and he lucked out — he just married a girl who’s job was to put a wrench on a much nicer plane (something I enjoy reminding him of). They’ve been able to move as a kissy little squad. :) Heh. Anyway, that’s allowed now, you know.

after almost 25 years of doing this though you’d think that she would be used to it

Not sure they can get used to that exactly. :) Probably a good thing.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 4:05 AM

MarshFox on November 28, 2012 at 4:04 AM

Yeah mahn. I’m going to go pass out — over there — for the night and dream of passing out in a nicer place. You take care.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 4:08 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on November 28, 2012 at 4:04 AM

:)

*shrug*

Lots of beta in there, anyway. It’s good to see beta working again.

Axe on November 28, 2012 at 4:09 AM

Hey PrimordialOrderedPair, you still here? Im currently stuck out in the boonies on a rescue mission posting from my phone. Did ya see my nonsense?

SWalker on November 28, 2012 at 4:26 AM

By “revenue,” I’m assuming she means money from taxes, i.e., other people’s money. Can some politician on our side start calling taxes “taking people’s money” instead of “taxes?” Look across the table and challenge this nitwit. “You want to take people’s money. I want to stop spending money we don’t have.” Yeesh, I was surrounded by the likes of her in Maryland most of my life.

Dongemaharu on November 28, 2012 at 2:23 AM

Well said. However, I think that it is intentional. The R’s want to get on board with raising taxes as well and so have adopted the language of the left to soften their own rhetoric.

MJBrutus on November 28, 2012 at 5:13 AM

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