Mystery: Virginia gun violence falls as gun sales soar

posted at 1:51 pm on November 27, 2012 by Mary Katharine Ham

Freedom preserved and less crime for everyone. Nifty, huh?

Gun-related violent crime in Virginia has dropped steadily over the past six years as the sale of firearms has soared to a new record, according to an analysis of state crime data with state records of gun sales.

The total number of firearms purchased in Virginia increased 73 percent from 2006 to 2011. When state population increases are factored in, gun purchases per 100,000 Virginians rose 63 percent.

But the total number of gun-related violent crimes fell 24 percent over that period, and when adjusted for population, gun-related offenses dropped more than 27 percent, from 79 crimes per 100,000 in 2006 to 57 crimes in 2011.

The numbers appear to contradict a long-running popular narrative that more guns cause more violent crime, said Virginia Commonwealth University professor Thomas R. Baker, who compared Virginia crime data for those years with gun-dealer sales estimates obtained by the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

Correlation isn’t causation, of course, but what’s interesting about this research is how thoroughly it blows out the traditional causal argument of gun-control advocates. How thoroughly?

Thomas R. Baker, the professor who did this research for the Richmond Times-Dispatch:

“While there is a wealth of academic literature attempting to demonstrate the relationship between guns and crime, a very simple and intuitive demonstration of the numbers seems to point away from the premise that more guns leads to more crime, at least in Virginia,” said Baker, who specializes in research methods and criminology theory and has an interest in gun issues…

“So while it’s difficult to make a direct causal link (that more guns are resulting in less crime), the numbers certainly present that that’s a real possibility,” Baker added.
The opposite – that more guns are causing more crime – cannot be derived from the numbers, he said.

“It’s mathematically not possible, because the relationship is a negative relationship – they’re moving in the opposite direction,” Baker said. “So the only thing it could be is that more guns are causing less crime.”

So, let’s try it a different way. Just handguns!

Handgun-related offenses account for the majority of violent crimes committed in Virginia.
Because rifles and shotguns are used far less often to commit violent crimes, Baker said, one could argue that the purchase of those types of weapons is falsely inflating the total gun purchases in relation to total gun crime.

So Baker also examined the relationship between handgun purchases and handgun-related crime. He found a similar trend.

Handgun purchases in Virginia increased 112 percent from 2006 to 2011, but violent crimes committed with handguns fell by nearly 22 percent. When adjusted for population increases, handgun purchases rose a little more than 100 percent, but violent crimes committed with handguns dropped 26 percent, according to Baker’s analysis.

And, one more time, for the gun-control crowd. This time, we’ll take all crimes attributed to unknown gun types and assume they were committed with handguns. That oughtta do the trick.

“In fact, if all unknown gun types used in violent gun crimes are assumed to have been handguns, then handgun-related violent crime decreased just over 24 percent from 2006 to 2011,” he said.

And, for the finale, a gun-control lobbyist is reduced to using the talking points of gun-rights activists:

“It’s quite possible that you can sell a whole lot more guns and crime is still going down,” Goddard said. “But is the crime going down because more people are buying guns, or is the crime going down because the crime is going down?”

Goddard said he would not have expected a rise in crime from a rise in legal gun sales, because legal gun buyers are not usually criminals – otherwise they would not pass a background check to get them. “Predicting the actions of criminals by analyzing the behavior of legal gun buyers is not likely to be productive,” he said.

In 2011, Central Virginia accounted for most of the state’s gun sales, but coming in close behind was the bluest part of the state— Northern Virginia. NoVa has a much higher population than Central Virginia, so the per capita purchases would be lower, but I did not expect such a large chunk of gun sales to come in this fairly liberal bastion. Maybe we’re creating converts up here.

Virginia guns

So, who are the people buying all these guns? That’s right, ladies.

Many gun dealers point to women as the most significant demographic of new gun buyers. “We are seeing far more women now — empowering themselves I guess is the word for it,” said Marcus, of Bob’s Gun Shop in Norfolk.

Colonial Shooting Academy in Henrico has been selling out its eight-hour women-only basic pistol instruction classes for the past three months, said Ed Coleman, the general manager.

“The fastest-growing segment of the gun-owning population is women,” Coleman said. “The numbers of women that are buying firearms for the first time are far exceeding men.”

And, if you won’t listen to research, listen to Ice-T.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Nothing stops crime faster than when someone demands grandma’s wallet and grandma reaches into her purse and pulls out a gun.

kim roy on November 27, 2012 at 1:55 PM

Strangely enough, most criminals don’t want to die any more than anyone else. Imagine that.

Oh, and Molon Labe!

Battlecruiser-operational on November 27, 2012 at 1:57 PM

It has been said before but I’ll say it again:

An ARMED society is a polite society.

Missilengr on November 27, 2012 at 1:57 PM

This is clearly racist!

Flange on November 27, 2012 at 1:57 PM

The question one only needs to ask is, if you were a criminal, would you rob the house of a gun owner or non-gun owner?
The answer really is very simple.
Humans are animals at the base level & self defense is a part of the natural world.
You act like prey, you become prey.

Badger40 on November 27, 2012 at 1:57 PM

This is good.

Previously, John Lott was the data-source for stuff like this. IMNSHO he is marginally credible.

It’s nice to have current events and liberty in sync once in a while.

Capitalist Hog on November 27, 2012 at 1:59 PM

Considering Obama’s DHS has purchased over one billion rounds of ammunition, the weapons sales are a response to a more threatening government, than say, a ski-masked home invader…although those same weapons work great at stopping them as well.

tom daschle concerned on November 27, 2012 at 1:59 PM

This is going to depress the hell out of the Brady campaign.

realitycheck on November 27, 2012 at 1:59 PM

An ARMED society is a polite society.

Missilengr on November 27, 2012 at 1:57 PM

This is why gun violence in the ‘Old West’ was very low.
But sadly, people don’t understand their history, so they go off of what movies have portrayed.
And also, violence against women was low as well. Bcs men used to respect women, when they kept their lady parts to themselves unless they were married.

Badger40 on November 27, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Maybe Mr Goddard can explain why gun violence is GOING UP in places like Chicago. Oh, yeah, they RESTRICT legal gun purchases.

Go figure.

GarandFan on November 27, 2012 at 2:01 PM

So, is this correlation or causation? I tend to think the latter but either way works for me. There are two rules when it comes to guns:

1) If you know how many guns you have you don’t have enough guns.

2) If you don’t have your own guns you may have to wait for the rest of your life for the police to bring theirs.

Molon Labe!

Lammo on November 27, 2012 at 2:02 PM

It’s better to have a gun and not need one than to need a gun and not have one.

The Notorious G.O.P on November 27, 2012 at 2:04 PM

New Black Friday record; almost 155,000 background check for gun purchases, up over 20% from last year’s record.

I friend of mine’s son works at a major retailer in San Antonio; they sold a million dollars worth of weapons on just that one day, people driving in from Louisiana because everyone there was sold out.

Obama has one segment of the economy absolutely booming!

michaelo on November 27, 2012 at 2:04 PM

“Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.”

Thomas Paine

http://www.weaponstickers.com/index.php

Pork-Chop on November 27, 2012 at 2:05 PM

The question one only needs to ask is, if you were a criminal, would you rob the house of a gun owner or non-gun owner?

You got this one wrong. BUT you’re still right. Huh?

CRIMINALS LOVE TO STEAL GUNS! Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

But if more people are trained in home-defense and personal-carry safety then more criminals will be backed down or shot.

Drug-addicts do not do market research. They respond to impulse. Sure there are situations where you have the criminals in your own neighborhood watching your home. But that happens regardless of gun sales.

Guns are great weapons to kill bad guys. It’s my right to own them for self-defense, sport or paper-weights. Don’t mess with my legal arms.

Capitalist Hog on November 27, 2012 at 2:06 PM

Once again, reality proves academic theory wrong.

Professors nationwide dumbfounded; assign research projects to grad students, demand more federal grant money for further study.

“Hey, we need to produce a ‘Hockey Stick’ graph. Look what it did for for the funding for those hacks down in the metrology labs”

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:06 PM

Criminals are just not stupid enough to want to break into a house where the owner has a gun! Why would they, when they can just as easily break into the house of a person who doesn’t own a gun! Not that logic has anything to do with the Lib argument for gun control, cause it doesn’t. The libs don’t want any person to be able to protect themselves, especially not from their edicts & oppressions!

http://www.paratisiusa.blogspot.com

God Bless America!

paratisi on November 27, 2012 at 2:07 PM

Mystery: Virginia gun violence falls as gun sales soar

Good grief, that’s not a mystery, this is a mystery…

A little riddiculus gibberish

SWalker on November 27, 2012 at 2:07 PM

“Doomsday Prepper Effect”

As wacky as that show is, I gotta admit you can pick up some damn good pointers.

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM

I tease about Kirsten Powers but this MKH woman does very well in a tough game. I hope she stays away from the “stations of the cross they have on MSNBC for conservatives.

I tried to write to O’Reilly about how MKH tries to enhance the discussion but it started turning into a dissertation and, since I don’t have the energy any more than he has the interest, I dropped it.

Guns are tools.

And so are liberals.

Well, they want to be an implement for the state, they love uniformity…

IlikedAUH2O on November 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM

Good grief, that’s not a mystery, this is a mystery…

A little riddiculus gibberish

SWalker on November 27, 2012 at 2:07 PM

The answer is 42.

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:11 PM

You wingnutz use facts and evidence as mere political crutches.

“It hasn’t warmed in 16 years so lets just wait and see what happens before we deal a mortal blow to the world’s largest economy”

“Low taxes and regulations have always lead to economic prosperity”

“More guns mean less gun crime”

It’s maddening! Guns FEEL bad. Rich people UPSET regular people and make them FEEL bad. They FEEL like we are killing the planet unless we do something!

Facts just turn off independent voters. Enjoy your time in obscurity.

/sarc?

Mord on November 27, 2012 at 2:11 PM

This is why gun violence in the ‘Old West’ was very low.

At some point don’t you get tired of repeating what somebody else has said?

I agree with your point but it’s not like you’ve studied post-construction demographics or anything. You’re just repeating something you’ve heard that you thought was cool. (Are you wondering how I can tell that you have zero actual knowledge about what your statements?) Let that marinate for a bit. I’ll come back to you later.

The interwebs are great for pseudo-intellectual pablum; gotta love it.

Capitalist Hog on November 27, 2012 at 2:13 PM

Lots of Long Iron in those numbers.
I see the deer population in VA decreasing soon.

Jabberwock on November 27, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Reconstruction

Capitalist Hog on November 27, 2012 at 2:15 PM

“But is the crime going down because more people are buying guns, or is the crime going down because the crime is going down?”

Moving the goal posts.

Liberals maintain, as an article of faith, that guns, by their existence, cause violence. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to a liberal that more guns – as a factor of causation – means more crime.

There are more guns. There is less crime. The hypothesis has been categorically disproven.

Washington Nearsider on November 27, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Well apparently Ms. Ham, you did not see Dianne Sawyer’s special on “Do guns make us (meaning the peasant class) safer”. And they went out of their way to explain to me, a flyover fool, how guns in no way make me safer.
Considering that high class medial scum (Ms. Sawyer) is probably surrounded by a minnimum of 30 firearms 24/7 it seems pretty clear to me this nugget of truth will be buried. Deep.
Do appreciate the effort though. And God bless America.

onomo on November 27, 2012 at 2:17 PM

“When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”

Dexter_Alarius on November 27, 2012 at 2:19 PM

I guess a “war on women” is when you support arming women.

Suck on it, Left.

rrpjr on November 27, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Unexpectedly!

dczombie on November 27, 2012 at 2:20 PM

The numbers appear to contradict a long-running popular narrative that more guns cause more violent crime, said Virginia Commonwealth University professor Thomas R. Baker

I suspect that more guns actually do result in more violent crime – but only in neighboring states with draconian gun laws. I’m sure many gun toting criminals left Virginia to go where the law abiding citizens can’t shoot back.

MessesWithTexas on November 27, 2012 at 2:21 PM

Had the Apache had guns, you would be buying our gold from our mines, paying tolls to cross west Texas, New Mexico and Az..

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Just another example of liberal theology being wrong and a conservative theology being proven right.

sentinelrules on November 27, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Had the Apache had guns, you would be buying our gold from our mines, paying tolls to cross west Texas, New Mexico and Az..

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Whiskey: Indian Kryptonite

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:26 PM

Considering Obama’s DHS has purchased over one billion rounds of ammunition, the weapons sales are a response to a more threatening government, than say, a ski-masked home invader…although those same weapons work great at stopping them as well.

tom daschle concerned on November 27, 2012 at 1:59 PM

TDC – with respect, this is a canard.

Federal government departments put out RFPs for all kinds of stuff (inclduing .40 cal JHP) all the time…

The first stage of the RFP is basic qualification of a supplier. There are multiple stages afterwards. The drawing up of contracts happens well down the line.

Like most, I’m not a fan of DHS or the larger aparatus but putting out an RFP for ammo is not really cause for panic. If you want to panic, ask yourself why there are ammo dumps (signposted no less) in pretty inaccessible bits of flyover country…hint: it’s not in case the Koreans invade.

CorporatePiggy on November 27, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Kentucky flips the script on gun buyback programs & Heinlein views in Action
http://gunowners.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/kentucky-flips-the-script-on-gun-buyback-programs-heinlein-views-in-action/

As you may recall, I have utter disdain for gun buyback programs. With that being said I was greatly amused that the State of Kentucky has done a one-eighty on the idea and have begun a sell back program.

Now though, after $7 million worth of bullet proof vests and other police needs have been funded directly by this program, the police are among its biggest supporters. Though the support isn’t universal, and you will always have the gun control zealots try to undermine the rights of the citizenry with outlandish claims and sensationalism, it seems that Kentucky is on the right path and that the gun sell back program will continue on its successful path.

Man Pulls Gun on Rowdy, Line-Cutting Black Friday Shopper
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/weird/NATL-Man-Pulls-Gun-on-Black-Friday-Shopper-for-Cutting-in-Line–180586131.html

Impatient line-cutter had allegedly punched man in face. Police say man had permit to carry gun and won’t be charged.

Police Sgt. Rob Carey tells the San Antonio Express-News a man rushed into the store when it opened Thursday night to get to the front of a line, started arguing with people and tried cutting in front of them.

One man who got punched pulled a gun and that scattered shoppers, including the impatient line-cutter who took cover behind a refrigerator. Then he fled.

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -Robert Heinlein

Galt2009 on November 27, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Liberals maintain, as an article of faith, that guns, by their existence, cause violence. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to a liberal that more guns – as a factor of causation – means more crime.

There are more guns. There is less crime. The hypothesis has been categorically disproven.

Washington Nearsider on November 27, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Guns kill people like pencils spell words wrong.

Want to make people smarter? Get rid of pencils.

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:28 PM

In the end commie Democrats think that every thing belongs to the state. Thus no need for self protection of private property and as wards of the state they look to the state for their lives.

Easy if every one is a dunce liberal commie Democrat.

But some humans are born mean and deadly to all.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:28 PM

2) If you don’t have your own guns you may have to wait for the rest of your life for the police to bring theirs.

Molon Labe!

Lammo on November 27, 2012 at 2:02 PM

Hey, I saw what you did there.

Gunlock Bill on November 27, 2012 at 2:29 PM

Had the Apache had guns, you would be buying our gold from our mines, paying tolls to cross west Texas, New Mexico and Az..

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:22 PM

You had guns and other things that you bought on credit.

The federal government encouraged you to take on the debt then convinced you that selling your land was the only way out because at that point you were outnumbered by the pale faces anyway.

CorporatePiggy on November 27, 2012 at 2:29 PM

Gosh! Whodathunkit??? Oh yeah, Gun owners everywhere!

Sasha List on November 27, 2012 at 2:30 PM

“I have to buy a new pistol sweetheart, I have to do my part to reduce gun violence.”

;D

WeekendAtBernankes on November 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM

Bopmbx,

Racist dumb ass.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM

The answer is 42.

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:11 PM

Of course. 42 is the ultimate answer….

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 2:32 PM

very simple and intuitive demonstration

2 things a lib/prog can’t comprehend therefor they do not exist.

RedInMD on November 27, 2012 at 2:32 PM

Arguing for the side of gun control and confiscation is Chicago, murder capitol of the USA.

1. More guns = less crime.
2. No gun sales or ownership = more crime.

Ergo we need more gun control![/leftist]

Can we all admit that leftists do not want us armed because as one famous leftist said “One man with a rifle can control 100 without.”

jukin3 on November 27, 2012 at 2:33 PM

Coperatepiggyback,

Read the book, “Apache” by Will Liveinton Comfort

Life of Apache Chief Mangus Colorados

Then get back to me once you know one or two things, as you know nothing now.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:34 PM

300 year war.

Small Pox the main killer used by Spain/Mexico/U.S..

No. Two. guns aka “fire sticks”.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:36 PM

heh!

ted c on November 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM

Ladies are buyin’ guns like their lady parts depend on it! Whodathunk?

ted c on November 27, 2012 at 2:41 PM

42 FTW!

22044 on November 27, 2012 at 2:43 PM

I wonder if New York’s totalitarian homunculus has seen that.

rdbrewer on November 27, 2012 at 2:44 PM

I like my gun

Ruger LC 9

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 2:45 PM

I like my gun
Ruger LC 9

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 2:45 PM

S&W M&P 9

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

Nice dentarthurdent

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Ladies are buyin’ guns like their lady parts depend on it! Whodathunk?

ted c on November 27, 2012 at 2:41 PM

Suggested to my wife I would buy her a 22 pistol (to start with) because I’m not sure she can handle my 9 mm, but she insisted she doesn’t want it for Christmas – I guess not the right kind of Christmas present. HOWEVER – she would like it for her birthday.

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away… at the donut shop.

I remember one winter day, a horrific snowstorm, and some imbecile decides the perfect place to hold-up: a donut shop. That arrest took fractions of a second.

If you want to be protected by police, own a donut shop. The old self-sufficient neighborhood concept had a lot going for it… a donut shop every couple of blocks.

Other than that you are all the law that there is in protecting your own life.

ajacksonian on November 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Racist dumb ass.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM

When did calling someone “prejudiced” go out of style?

I prefer the old style, make a note of it.

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 2:52 PM

Nice dentarthurdent

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

It’s very smooth, easy to handle, easy to field strip and clean, so far very good shooting at 25 yards.
A guy next to us on the range Saturday blew up the barrel of a revolver of some kind – 3 feet away from my son who was shooting my S&W. He said he felt something like shrapnel on his face and arm but thought it was just heat blast.

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

I got my sig sauer P250 for my last birthday! :)

Sasha List on November 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Yikes dent

You sure mrs dent wouldn’t like the 9 mm?

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 3:03 PM

Good grief, that’s not a mystery, this is a mystery…

A little riddiculus gibberish

SWalker on November 27, 2012 at 2:07 PM

The formula for ObamaCare payment schedule for contraceptives…

Yoop on November 27, 2012 at 3:08 PM

The sad thing is no one outside of some conservative blogs and/or Hannity are going to hear much of anything about this. The ‘Guns Kill’ meme is still the MSM narrative and that’s unlikely to change just because a few FACTS get tossed their way.

Librals are an absolute cancer on this country. Societies have always had dimwits, layabouts, and lunatics in their midst; our downfall was to start actually listening to them… And then voting them in :-(

CaptFlood on November 27, 2012 at 3:16 PM

The criminals who are the most concerned about this many honest people with guns are those in Washington.

Tater Salad on November 27, 2012 at 3:21 PM

The interwebs are great for pseudo-intellectual pablum; gotta love it.

Capitalist Hog on November 27, 2012 at 2:13 PM

You’re kind of a condescending little snot, aren’t you?

Solaratov on November 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Had the Apache had guns, you would be buying our gold from our mines, paying tolls to cross west Texas, New Mexico and Az..

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:22 PM

But you didn’t, did you…and we did.

/s/

Solaratov on November 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Of course, sometimes you cannot Fix Stupid;

February 3, 1990 Renton, Washington

Thirty-three-year-old David Zaback entered H&J Leather & Firearms Ltd. at approximately 4:40 in the afternoon brandishing a .38-caliber semiautomatic handgun and announced his intention to rob the store. He threatened to shoot anyone who got in his way.

Having apparently failed to notice the police car parked in front of the gun shop when he walked in (true!), Zaback found himself confronted by a uniformed officer and an armed clerk, who ordered him to drop his gun. Zaback opened fire instead, drawing a fatal volley of shots from the clerk and the policeman, both of whom survived the shootout unharmed.

According to the county medical examiner, Zaback was shot a total of four times and died a few hours later in the emergency room. “Several” armed patrons also drew weapons, the Times confirms, but none actually fired on Zaback.

Then again, maybe you can Fix Stupid.

jaydee_007 on November 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Then again, maybe you can Fix Stupid.

jaydee_007 on November 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Should have been a Darwin award nominee…..
Obviously qualified for the final round.

Tenwheeler on November 27, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Capitalist Hog, you’re an idiot. It’s Lott’s chosen method of advocacy that is ‘marginally credible’, not his actual research and findings. Those have never been refuted. Congrats on falling for / perpetuating the character assassinations of the Left. Lott made it easy with his online sockpuppeting. But his conclusion that ‘more guns [equals] less crime’ is spot on. As demonstrated by this topic that Erika brushed against in the defunct Green Room.

rayra on November 27, 2012 at 3:42 PM

BobMbx,

Notwithstanding your attempting to bait me into posting something that might get me banned from this site.

I will respond to you Mr. BobMbx pissant knownothing prejudiced pinhead prick.

Have a nice look down your nose at others.

AWK

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM

tset

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 3:49 PM

BobMbx etal,

Whats it like to be dumb and prejudiced in public like this?

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 3:50 PM

APACHEWHOKNOWS, are you claiming we gave the indians small pox infected blankets?

Hard Right on November 27, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Lots of Long Iron in those numbers.
I see the deer population in VA decreasing soon.
Jabberwock on November 27, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Which should decrease traffic accidents and fatalities, right?
And help some citizens stretch their food dollars further?

Both good things…

Marcola on November 27, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Yikes dent

You sure mrs dent wouldn’t like the 9 mm?

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 3:03 PM

She might, but she hasn’t been willing to try it yet. So I figure I could start her off with a 22 that she can easily handle, and work our way up.

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:03 PM

jaydee_007 on November 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Good job picking the real story instead of the fake embellished Darwin Awards version.

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:04 PM

It’s understood by everyone nowadays that unarmed citizens are fair game; the government takes a frankly insufferable pride in considering the lives and property of non-government officials to be expendible.

Career criminals know full well that they have nothing to fear from unarmed citizens. Anyone who tries to harm a police officer, will be gunned down. But if the victim is anyone else; all the crimnals have to do is call King’s-X and they’ll get the kid glove treatment from a system that considers them its bread and butter. Bail, probation, attorneys, and rare bouts of jail time, are all just costs of doing business.

logis on November 27, 2012 at 4:05 PM

HardRight,

No, we never accepted the blankets, we got the smallpox from your women who liked our red skin over your weak white skin, that and we were way more good looking too.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:07 PM

I like my gun
Ruger LC 9

cmsinaz on November 27, 2012 at 2:45 PM

S&W M&P 9

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

M&P .40
M&P 15T

Washington Nearsider on November 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Our family never did the reservation deal.

Once they killed old Mangus (80 years old at the time) by putting red hot iron on his feet to make him fight that last fight we gathered horses, “range found” and sold them to the U.S. Army over at Ft. Sill Ok. and they used them to chase and fight the Comanche who were to big and mean for us. These days both families the Commanche and ours make money the good old American way.

Now we just out trade others and bank the money or buy gold and guns.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:14 PM

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Um, that wasn’t smallpox that you got from ‘those’ women…:)

Jack Slade on November 27, 2012 at 4:16 PM

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:07 PM

If you’re going to spew your pathetic crap, just remember those weak white skinned devil’s made a mockery of your people. Now go sell some beads to the nice tourist.

Flange on November 27, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Whats it like to be dumb and prejudiced in public like this?

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Wonderful. And thanks for asking.

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 4:19 PM

M&P .40
M&P 15T

Washington Nearsider on November 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM

A local Sportsman’s Warehouse had a sale on M&P 15 at $900 on black Friday. I was VERY tempted, especially as a S&W stockholder, but I passed it up for now. I’m looking for a Mossberg 500 Tactical 12 gauge first (just comparing prices).

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:20 PM

Egnalf,

Yrekocom uoy.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:20 PM

The dumb is strong herein above.

First know thyself.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:23 PM

No, we never accepted the blankets, we got the smallpox from your women who liked our red skin over your weak white skin, that and we were way more good looking too.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Ever seen someone with smallpox? If your big bucks resorted to humping white women with smallpox, that doesn’t say much about the squaws, does it?

BobMbx on November 27, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Want a concealed carry permit in Delaware?

Get five people to swear you’re not crazy -really, and sign off on it!- take an NRA safety course that’s $375, and put an ad in a local paper announcing that you are applying for a CCP in case anyone wants to object, and the ad must include not only your name but your address.

Of course, this latter requirement vastly increases the odds that your home will be burglarized and your guns stolen, as a cop told a friend of mine who suffered that fate for that reason.

Friend: “All they took was my guns. How’d they know I had guns?”

Cop: “Did you have a carry permit pending with an ad in the paper?”

F: “Yeah…”

C: “Guy in the next development had the same thing happen yesterday. Happens a lot.”

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:25 PM

What do ya expect from a state that would elect Biteme Joe to Congress?

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Had the Apache had guns, you would be buying our gold from our mines, paying tolls to cross west Texas, New Mexico and Az.. APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 2:22 PM

First we would have to had to show you how to mine and build roads.

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:27 PM

What do ya expect from a state that would elect Biteme Joe to Congress? dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Tell me something I don’t know.

It’s three counties serve as a fine platform for I95, don’t get me wrong, but it’s amazing that we can send someone to congress as stupid as CA or NY can.

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Only question left is how low will these posters go?

Make your names known here now.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:30 PM

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:30 PM

We’ll see, you’ve set the bar pretty low.

Flange on November 27, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Tell me something I don’t know.

It’s three counties serve as a fine platform for I95, don’t get me wrong, but it’s amazing that we can send someone to congress as stupid as CA or NY can.

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:29 PM

My son had a college girlfriend for awhile who came from Delaware. When he finally met her parents on trip out here, they kept questioning him about WHY do you own GUNS???? Like, what’s wrong with you?
Glad he finally dumped her.

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:33 PM

I remember in Florida when people were first allowed to carry concealed weapons, I was told by friends to be careful flying into the airports there. Since the criminals could not be sure their victims were not carrying, they prefered to stake out the airports and car rental places to be able to select the unarmed visitors.

Uniblogger on November 27, 2012 at 4:34 PM

No, we never accepted the blankets, we got the smallpox from your women who liked our red skin over your weak white skin, that and we were way more good looking too. APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Our women gravitate to men who bathe, and who don’t get their asses kicked up and down the plains by the US Cavalry till the cows come home.

Hey Chief Buffalosmell, go do a ghost dance real hard and our words won’t be able to hurt you.

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:35 PM

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Well then you can rest assured it wasn’t my daughter!

Akzed on November 27, 2012 at 4:36 PM

I’m pretty disgusted with this offtopic back and forth.

tom daschle concerned on November 27, 2012 at 4:37 PM

In this area of NOVA there is a rise in the number of people taking up hunting. In the immediate neighborhood this has gone up from 1 hunter a decade ago to about 5 currently, and taking out sons and daughters to teach them to hunt as well.

What you get is the start of the 3 Gun family: rifles, shotguns and handguns. Like the 3 Gun competitions that means you start to see a much wider range of skills to go with each platform and now that there is a nearby general indoor range and a bit more distant outdoor rifle and shotgun range, there is now opportunity to practice. Plus the indoor range is featuring CQB training in varieties of configurations and conditions.

And I believe there is also an IPSEC group active in the area, which is going to support this concept, as well.

In other words, gun sports and hunting are in suburbia in this region of NOVA. Crimes against people have gone down, while crimes against property (particularly vehicles in a few areas) have gone up. That is to say crimes of opportunity have gone down against people as they are no longer seen as opportunistic by criminals. I like that mindset. People asserting themselves as citizens are not subjects any longer. The more this goes on the more things will change… it just takes time.

ajacksonian on November 27, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Only question left is how low will these posters go?
Make your names known here now.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 27, 2012 at 4:30 PM

Time to grow up. You actually started this Apache.
I’m not getting into it since I have ancestors on both sides (Narragansett/Nipmuc and lots of various European), and it’s just not relevant to the thread.
But really – you guys are ruining what could be a good thread.

dentarthurdent on November 27, 2012 at 4:41 PM

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