Norquist: Republicans won’t really break the ATR tax pledge
posted at 1:01 pm on November 26, 2012 by Ed Morrissey
Grover Norquist seems a lot more optimistic than most conservatives this month in relation to Republican unity on the fiscal cliff. He tells CNN’s Soledad O’Brien that he doesn’t believe that any signatories to the Americans for Tax Reform pledge will violate their commitment to vote against tax increases — not even those who disavowed Norquist over the weekend. Norquist specifically mentions Lindsey Graham, whom he says so heavily qualified his offer to vote for tax increases that it amounted to an argument against them:
“”No pledge taker has voted for a tax increase,” he said on CNN’s “Starting Point. “Even [Sen.] Lindsey Graham [R-S.C.] would support higher taxes ‘if.’ … He lists this incredible list of reforms and entitlements that the Democrats would never give.”
The ATR Taxpayer Protection Pledge has come under intense scrutiny over the last week as the White House and congressional leaders discuss a deficit-reduction deal meant to prevent tax hikes and spending cuts due at the end of the year that are known as the “fiscal cliff.”
President Obama is demanding that Republicans agree to raise taxes on the wealthy in exchange for spending cuts and entitlement reforms, and several Republicans have suggested a willingness to move on taxes.
Norquist, however, insisted Monday that Graham and Sens. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.) as well as Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.) have not changed their positions on the tax pledge. He also warned his organization would “highlight” any Republican lawmaker who breaks the pledge.
I agree with Norquist that these negotiations should take place openly. I’m not sure that that would accelerate a solution, but at least we would be able to hold everyone accountable for their actions. The better option, though, would be to follow normal procedure by having both the House and the Senate pass actual budgets, and then reconcile them in a conference committee. That’s how the system is supposed to work, and it avoids all of this attention-grabbing brinksmanship … and most of that process would take place in front of C-SPAN cameras, too, although perhaps it wouldn’t be as relatively exciting as the fiscal cliff negotiations now would be.
Is Norquist’s optimism justified? We’ll almost certainly see proposals to raise taxes in the Senate, if not in the House. Will ATR signatories vote for such a package if it contains significant reform elements? Take the poll:
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Oh, I see. You weren’t serious. Did you tell me I was supposed to use sarc tags when I did that or it would fall flat? No, you said I was supposed to drop “obvious clues”.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 4:46 AM
I hold the following statements to be true:
1) Our political opponents are very good at playing racial politics with minority groups.
2) You can’t wish away the 12 million people who are here illegally.
If the latter statement is true then we have to come up with some means to deal with them because they’re not going away, and if the former statement is true then the longer we hold to positions that make it easy to twist into looking like we don’t want Hispanic people here then the tighter we make our own noose. Changing course does not guarantee victory but not changing course does guarantee defeat.
alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 4:50 AM
You might be better utilized on Mercury. But I can’t legally send you there. Any more than you could send me to the border when I was active duty army.
You’re making no sense. I can explain it to you if you just ask. I’m not cryptic like you with you service record you’re implying or avoiding or whatever you’re doing with it.
Do you want me to explain to you or not?
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 4:50 AM
“your” service record …
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 4:51 AM
No, I did not tell you to use sarc tags. In fact, I said that sarcasm was better without sarc tags. I said without any kind of perceptive humor it fell flat. I also said that if you were being sarcastic/saying the opposite of what you really belived, you should have been gratified when people went after you for those statements, not all upset. Just becuase you see things in the comments of others that are not there doesn’t mean others are going to see things that aren’t there in your comments.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 4:55 AM
You’re the most consistent person here tonight. You’re willing to pander to everyone for almost no real growth in the base and no difference being made in any election.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 4:55 AM
I tried to follow all that.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 4:57 AM
Your comprehension of simple English is highly deficient.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 4:57 AM
Let me take a “wild” guess – you didn’t succeed.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 4:58 AM
I told you months ago and am not going to tell you again. It’s too far in the past, like a different life. I will tell you one small item though only as it just might tic you off – I outranked you.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 5:02 AM
Let’s not get personal. You keep trying to insinuate I would have been able to serve on our Southern Border if I had not been sent to the Middle East and Southwest Asia 5 times. I couldn’t have legally served there. If you don’t understand why, you needn’t try to make it sound like I’m the slow one here because it’s confusing to you. Especially after I’ve offered to explain it to you several times already.
Yeah … no.
You kind of rambled and you lost me when you went on a tangent again adding things to our conversation that didn’t transpire. Here’s the bottom line. If all of this is to avoid answering a question definitively about your service, I understand. Not my business unless you keep insisting you have some insight to what we’ve been through during the GWOT. I don’t need to know. Just tell me you’d rather not say.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:08 AM
How would I know that? I was a field grade officer. What were you?
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:10 AM
I do again want to thank la Raza…I mean the RNC … I mean the DNC and it’s subsidiary the RNC, the organization for the $1,000 in affirmative action latino and affirmative action muslim scholarships they’ve given out to all those nice people…tonight they took in over $4,000,000, but they do have expenses for their consultants you know, and I think that I have another appointment. I would like to stay here, but for the sake of brevity I, I must leave.
In parting, I say that you will be on the road to new horizons, for we who live in a society where citizenship is a commodity and a politician can become a TV personality, it’s not easy to conform if you have any morality…I, I, I said that myself many years ago… I do want to thank Mr. Hawk Driver, I want to thank Mr. Allah Pundit. I want to thank Mr. Morrisey, who just ran through the auditorium and out a fire exit, and I want to thank Marco Rubio – acting el Presidenta of la Raza Mexiamerica and also Mr. Obama – acting Pharaoh and Drone Commander of the World – and also I want to thank Professor Irwin Corey and thank you. …
RasThavas on April 3, 2013 at 5:11 AM
I could almost have sworn you had said WO-5, but does anyone really care?
RasThavas on April 3, 2013 at 5:13 AM
I’m not pandering, I’m taking away from the left a club with which they will beat us over the head until the GOP can’t win a national election. And the sooner we stop making it sound like we don’t want certain groups here the sooner we have a chance to engage them and grow our base. You want illegals to become more attune to a conservative message? Let them start paying Barack Obama’s taxes.
alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 5:14 AM
We had this “conversation” before and if you don’t remember that’s your problem. I’m not into Ground Hog day at the rest home.
RasThavas on April 3, 2013 at 5:15 AM
Come on. One account at a time, Vordaj.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:16 AM
First, you forgot to change your account back.
Second, you never definitively said anything. You’re being cryptic on purpose. If you did outrank me. No big deal. But I was a field grade. I was Commissioned. Are you sure you outranked me?
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:19 AM
You know my methods, Watson.
RasThavas on April 3, 2013 at 5:19 AM
I didn’t forget and it sure seems to me a Hawkdriver had said he was a WO-5 (which is impressive as when I was in a WO-4 was the highest WO I’d ever heard of). But who really cares. I was in for 3 years, 5 months and 11 days and that was 40 years ago.
RasThavas on April 3, 2013 at 5:23 AM
I’m guessing you thought it was hard figuring out your socks?
BTW, embarrassing talking about Ground Hog Day at the rest home when “you” forgot to change accounts, no?
Come on. That’s funny, right?
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:26 AM
I didn’t forget to change accounts. I have a couple of times years ago, but not this time. I figured you would know from your name being in the Professor Irwin Corey comment.
RasThavas on April 3, 2013 at 5:28 AM
Sure MB4, wink wink. Your secret is safe with me. Truth be know, you’ve used three in this thread that I know of. I miss some sometimes.
First, anything above WO1 is a CWO as in CW4. Of late, it would be an CW5 or MW5. So there’s that. We started by being called MW4s. No real pay raise but with brigade level responsibilities. The equivalent responsibility and pay is LTC. I was also commissioned.
But 3 year, 5 months? Hardly enough time to rise to a field grade and no indication of whether you’d served in combat. Doesn’t really help. Did you serve in Viet Nam? I have no greater respect than for those that served in actual combat in that war.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:40 AM
Can’t we all just get along?
Cheshire Cat on April 3, 2013 at 5:41 AM
I said wink, wink. Your secrets safe. No further explaination necessary.
Yeah … no. I don’t get it. Irwin Corey? Is that supposed to mean something to me?
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 5:47 AM
Oh God, this is getting boring. I don’t care about all the jargon/nomenclature or “equivalent responsibility”. I said I outranked you (as I said only because it might tic you off) based on remembering you, or somebody, saying you were a W5 or WO5 or CW5 or some kind of warrant officer 5. I don’t know why a Field Grade Officer would be flying helicopters anyway.
I already told you I was in RVN in the FA (1193 and 8105) and an O3. I went to the same OCS as Tommy Franks but 3 years later. And Vietnam was a stupid and useless war too (although I don’t think as stupid as Afcrapistan) and my having been there does not change that in the least.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 5:51 AM
Well I thought your own name in that comment would. You never heard of Professor Irwin Corey?
“He created a new style of doublespeak comedy; instead of making up nonsense words like “krelman” and “trilloweg”, like double-talker Al Kelly, the Professor would season his speech with many long and florid, but authentic, words. The professor would then launch into nonsensical observations about anything under the Sun, but seldom actually making sense. Changing topics suddenly, he would wander around the stage, pontificating all the while. His quick wit allowed him to hold his own against the most stubborn straight man, heckler or interviewer. One notable fan of Corey’s comedy, despite their radically different politics, was Ayn Rand. Theatre critic Kenneth Tynan once wrote of the Professor in The New Yorker, “Corey is a cultural clown, a parody of literacy, a travesty of all that our civilization holds dear, and one of the funniest grotesques in America. He is Chaplin’s tramp with a college education”"
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 5:58 AM
It’s either changed or you don’t remember much from so long ago. With all respect, it’s not complicated jargon. Pretty standard stuff. CW4s and CW5s are afforded field grade officer status. And Warrants are commissioned when they leave the junior warrant officer ranks. As a Commissioned Warrant I served as a Platoon Leader and was eligible for and considered for a brief interim position as a company/detachment commander. A young captain was brought to our large detachment instead.
I
I respect your service in that war if you were actually dropping steel on the enemy there. Thank you for your service. I have great respect for the prosecution of both of those wars. Viet Nam and Korea were line in the sand actions that were fought to show the communist forces in the world that the US and NATO forces would not idly stand by and watch small countries fall like dominoes. I was fighting a similar level of conflict in Central and South America not long after you left Viet Nam. I’m sorry you look down on my war time in Afghanistan but I have no reservations about my involvement there, save for the recent change in ROE that now favors the enemy.
I flew for General Franks for a time also. He’s a great man.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 6:13 AM
So as I wade through all that it seems that you were a warrant officer. What rank insignia did you wear? Was it an Oak Leaf or not?
Where were you here which lists grades E1-9, W1-5 and O1-10?
http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 6:20 AM
I have to go but I am curious if you’ll use NoBordersJose again, Vordaj? He was actually one of your funnier characters.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 6:20 AM
Well Amigo, since VinyFoxy got the ban ham, I may if I can think of any new material. Aleph, Mad Mussie, also was deep sixed.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 6:22 AM
Just so you know W5 is more impressive to me than a field grade, just as is E9.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 6:23 AM
Why would I wear an oak leaf? I was never a major. I wore “the coin slot”. It was made to look like very slender captains bars. At one time some brainy mugg was actually considering the same silver bar with a 5 stars. That wouldn’t have been confusing.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 6:24 AM
Thanks, I get that but CW4s and CW5s are still field grades for all protocol considerations. But in the end, yes I would call you “sir” inside and salute you outside. Or salute your rank. I outranked every NCO and junior warrant officer in the army and still saluted the newest 2LT from Hudson High.
Then when you came for your APART, (Annual Check Rides) you’d be calling me sir and offering to buy my lunch.
:-)
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 6:29 AM
good morning HA
the hillary love fest continues this am…if you didn’t know it, hillary will be the next potus…forget the election, she has it in the bag…
cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 6:33 AM
Did he salute you or did you salute him or neither?
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 6:34 AM
He ended up being the detachment commander. We didn’t salute anyone where we were. But I saluted him when we were back in the major FOBs.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 6:37 AM
OK, you already answered that. So you would have saluted me! Nah. nah, nah!!! It would have been OK if you didn’t though if no one else was around.
VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 6:37 AM
O/T: Gun Control: Hey, UN…Molon Labe My Take.
kingsjester on April 3, 2013 at 6:38 AM
Hey cmsinar. How are you?
And Vordaj, last thing. When everyone figures out that I’m actually one of your sockpuppets too, all he11 is really going to break loose.
hawkdriver on April 3, 2013 at 6:41 AM
too funny, via newsbusters….
jay leno paraphrase ‘AP will now call illegal immigrants undocumented democrats’
and so true
cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 6:42 AM
morning hawdriver :)
doing well, ready for the weekend already….
cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 6:45 AM
morning KJ
another good one…
maybe dear leader is shooting for un secretary?
shameful what this administration will do behind the people’s back…
cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 6:47 AM
Both VorDaj and hawkdriver are my sockpuppets. Joe Biden is too, but he is much easier to handle.
PootyPoot on April 3, 2013 at 6:47 AM
cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 6:47 AM
Thank you, ma’am. Yes, it is.
kingsjester on April 3, 2013 at 6:50 AM
Morning, KJ!
bluegill on April 3, 2013 at 7:00 AM
How do you get twitter followers? I want to get on Twitter, but I don’t have any followers. How did that one woman Flora duh get so many followers? I want to learn how to comment on Twitter.
bluegill on April 3, 2013 at 7:02 AM
I’m totally going to do this. You people have to follow me.
bluegill on April 3, 2013 at 7:05 AM
And here in VA, we might as well turn over the keys to Terry McAuliffe because the governor’s race is just a proxy for the Hillary love, don’t you know. It is the start of the Hillary 2016 machine.
Be interesting to know what thoughts are ping-ponging around Joe Biden’s head about all this.
Happy Nomad on April 3, 2013 at 7:10 AM
indeed
cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 7:22 AM
I was thinking earlier today that I needed to go to the court house and change my party affiliation. If the GOP thinks they can do whatever they want and I won’t walk then they’re dead wrong. Then the thought occurred to me that we needed to make a statement about what exactly the GOP would be losing. Why don’t we all pick a day, in a month or so, and all go change our voter affiliation to independent on the same day. Give them some real numbers to think about.
DFCtomm on April 3, 2013 at 7:37 AM
I’ll follow your insane ass.
@SketchbookAxe
Axe on April 3, 2013 at 7:46 AM
Personally, I’d rather work from within. Make sure the right candidates get the GOP nomination at all levels of government instead of the usual crop of squishy establishment critters.
Like it or not, we have a two-party system and killing off the GOP isn’t going to do what you think it will.
Happy Nomad on April 3, 2013 at 7:56 AM
@SketchbookAxe
I just followed you. Thanks!
bluegill on April 3, 2013 at 7:57 AM
Hey Deepak, it isn’t an immigrant community if they are here illegally. They are invaders, trespassers, they have illegal alien status. I don’t give a rat’s behind if a bunch of people flaunt our laws are upset that they are not all immediately gifted citizenship as if it is there right. Lot’s of people worked very hard to make this nation and that doesn’t include the people you advocate for.
Happy Nomad on April 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Someone wake up Bmore. :)
https://twitter.com/Bluegill4ever/status/319418729731600384
Axe on April 3, 2013 at 8:05 AM
First.
Bishop on April 3, 2013 at 8:22 AM
Until the govt secures the border, this issue will continue to come up every 20 years or so. American citizenship is being diluted by people with an entitlement mindset. We already give them free health care, a drivers license whether they can drive safely or not or have insurance, food stamps and in some instances the right to vote. Our way of life which has defended through the centuries with our blood and treasure has been so cheapened by politicians, that we are about to give it away again with this new reform.
Kissmygrits on April 3, 2013 at 9:20 AM
The eternal optimist.
Cleombrotus on April 3, 2013 at 10:28 AM
Oh, brother…
Well, at least, Jim Carrey won’t be alone…
Resist We Much on April 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM
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