Norquist: Republicans won’t really break the ATR tax pledge

posted at 1:01 pm on November 26, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Grover Norquist seems a lot more optimistic than most conservatives this month in relation to Republican unity on the fiscal cliff. He tells CNN’s Soledad O’Brien that he doesn’t believe that any signatories to the Americans for Tax Reform pledge will violate their commitment to vote against tax increases — not even those who disavowed Norquist over the weekend. Norquist specifically mentions Lindsey Graham, whom he says so heavily qualified his offer to vote for tax increases that it amounted to an argument against them:

“”No pledge taker has voted for a tax increase,” he said on CNN’s “Starting Point. “Even [Sen.] Lindsey Graham [R-S.C.] would support higher taxes ‘if.’ … He lists this incredible list of reforms and entitlements that the Democrats would never give.”

The ATR Taxpayer Protection Pledge has come under intense scrutiny over the last week as the White House and congressional leaders discuss a deficit-reduction deal meant to prevent tax hikes and spending cuts due at the end of the year that are known as the “fiscal cliff.”

President Obama is demanding that Republicans agree to raise taxes on the wealthy in exchange for spending cuts and entitlement reforms, and several Republicans have suggested a willingness to move on taxes.

Norquist, however, insisted Monday that Graham and Sens. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.) as well as Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.) have not changed their positions on the tax pledge. He also warned his organization would “highlight” any Republican lawmaker who breaks the pledge.

I agree with Norquist that these negotiations should take place openly. I’m not sure that that would accelerate a solution, but at least we would be able to hold everyone accountable for their actions. The better option, though, would be to follow normal procedure by having both the House and the Senate pass actual budgets, and then reconcile them in a conference committee. That’s how the system is supposed to work, and it avoids all of this attention-grabbing brinksmanship … and most of that process would take place in front of C-SPAN cameras, too, although perhaps it wouldn’t be as relatively exciting as the fiscal cliff negotiations now would be.

Is Norquist’s optimism justified?  We’ll almost certainly see proposals to raise taxes in the Senate, if not in the House.  Will ATR signatories vote for such a package if it contains significant reform elements?  Take the poll:


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Two foxes and one chicken decide what’s for dinner.

The once freest land is now the dumbest.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Fund Your Utopia Without Me.™

Ditto to RWM

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2012 at 1:03 PM

If they are stupid enough to raise Taxes now, after all the “fuss” —

Then they deserved to Be Blamed for the party that raises taxes.

Its that simple.

FlaMurph on November 26, 2012 at 1:07 PM

Is Norquist’s optimism justified? We’ll almost certainly see proposals to raise taxes in the Senate, if not in the House. Will ATR signatories vote for such a package if it contains significant reform elements?

I’d say that a good political strategy is to claim that everything should be on the table- including tax increases. Even if it is not true (and I’m not sure that is the case). It is very easy to talk in broad sweeping terms about tax increases or entitlement reform but the devil is in the details. What taxes and how much? Which entitlements and what cuts?

Frankly, I have very little confidence that anything will be done in the five remaining weeks of this miserable do-nothing corrupt 112th Congress.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 1:09 PM

The principals have no principles.

Send them all home. Clean house, 100%.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2012 at 1:09 PM

why is no one talking about the purpose of government?

taxes only follow that

lm10001 on November 26, 2012 at 1:10 PM

This is all the TEA Party’s fault.

portlandon on November 26, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Hey Grover, shut up and join our movement.

Let. It. Burn.

JPeterman on November 26, 2012 at 1:11 PM

How can we forget the lesson of 41′s “Read my lips” ? -

This has more to crushing a political party – than it does with fiscal cliffs.

Let President Revenge end Bush tax cuts and lets start there…shall we ?

Don’t own it Republicans- you will be blamed.

FlaMurph on November 26, 2012 at 1:13 PM

The once freest land is now the dumbest.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2012 at 1:03 PM

That’s a just reward conservatives reap for letting the liberals pollute the public education system. The change for the better will not happen until public schooling is limited to “3 R”‘s and public unions are kicked out.

Archivarix on November 26, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Let the Dems do it all on their own… let THEM own it…

Khun Joe on November 26, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Stockholm syndrome

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2012 at 1:22 PM

OT: Raise your hand if you didn’t think this would happen. Of course we all knew this wa going to happen.

ConservativePartyNow on November 26, 2012 at 1:26 PM

I agree with Norquist that these negotiations should take place openly. I’m not sure that that would accelerate a solution, but at least we would be able to hold everyone accountable for their actions.

Only us concerned citizens will ever actually hold their elected officials accountable for their actions. And we are a dwindling minority.

Your typical 0bama / Jesse Jackson Jr. voter selects their representation based mainly on the color of their skin and/or whoever promises them the most free stuff ™.

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Is Grover Norquist the Pope of Fiscal Policy?

Does he have a ring to kiss?

portlandon on November 26, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Is Grover Norquist the Pope of Fiscal Policy?

Does he have a ring to kiss?

portlandon on November 26, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Yes, on his zipper.

Archivarix on November 26, 2012 at 1:31 PM

why is no one talking about the purpose of government?

lm10001 on November 26, 2012 at 1:10 PM

We tried that, only to be mocked by the radical left for our “crazy ideas” like hard work, personal responsibility, and fiscal sanity.

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Ditto to RWM

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2012 at 1:03 PM

RWM?

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 1:34 PM

GOP…..DEAD DEAD DEAD.

And after ObamaCare gets implemented and millions depend on Govt for their health they will listen to those that want to take it away?

ALOLOLLOLOLOL

PappyD61 on November 26, 2012 at 1:41 PM

We tried that, only to be mocked by the radical left for our “crazy ideas” like hard work, personal responsibility, and fiscal sanity.

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Yeah, those things can’t compete with Obamaphones, welfare checks, and feigned concern about illegals and homosexuals getting married.

Hard work, integrity, and ethics are apparently for losers. Face it. The Dantes of the world are taking over.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Yes, yes, yes! eSTABrepubs want to sellout & convince the morons, that it’s in their best interest to do what the Dems want. The list of Politicians to be “Primaried”, is growing! As long as Americans keep talking & not doing, this clown show will continue. The Egyptians are showing you what Americans look & act like when an attempt to take away their Freedoms and their country, is in progress. Americans, on the other hand, seem to think that surrendering, like the French is the tactic to take. Somebody please let me know when American’s are ready to fight for their Freedoms & Rights again and I’ll be happy to join the FIGHT! I will not be a part of your SURRENDER!

http://www.paratisiusa.blogspot.com

God Bless America!

paratisi on November 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM

RWM?

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 1:34 PM

“ResistWeMust” commenter here and her blog here

JPeterman on November 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM

call me unimpressed with this depraved theater of clowns and geek shows.

the leftist.press loves to caricature the Rs as stupid and venal. Part of this is the focus on the ‘cultist’ no-name guy name Grover. I mean, please…Grover is just some guy that is particular agile in getting his name in the news.

here’s a clue….the poor rich darlings that elected barry are getting tired of donating money…so now barry is going to put himself up for auction for the inauguration….well, natch it would be a quid pro quo type of auction…i mean not a charitable auction. So no doubt they’ll have discrete corporate logos all over…Goldmen Sack, Bain Capital, ATT, Google, Yahoo!…and so on

so let’s tax those rich poor darlings like all the 500K bundlers for barry..some super rich people there. Don’t get tired guys…time to pony up for the good of the country

and, btw, the agitprop media isn’t in the business of the truth…but this isn’t a fiscal cliff…the cliff is about 10 times deeper…and barry is still drivin

r keller on November 26, 2012 at 1:51 PM

If they are stupid enough to raise Taxes now, after all the “fuss” —

Then they deserved to Be Blamed for the party that raises taxes.

Its that simple.

Right on!!

dverplank on November 26, 2012 at 1:51 PM

Hard work, integrity, and ethics are apparently for losers. Face it. The Dantes of the world are taking over.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Hold your horses there, friend. Dante may be a man of many faults on a social front but no one so far had a reason to accuse Ronulans of being fiscally profligate. If you need a frustration outlet, use a designated troll.

Archivarix on November 26, 2012 at 1:56 PM

“ResistWeMust” commenter here and her blog here

JPeterman on November 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Thanks! Excellent blog, I refer to it often.

I didn’t know RWM is a “she.”

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Hold your horses there, friend. Dante may be a man of many faults on a social front but no one so far had a reason to accuse Ronulans of being fiscally profligate. If you need a frustration outlet, use a designated troll.

Archivarix on November 26, 2012 at 1:56 PM

Ronulans that sat out the election in a full-fledged snit about the candidates running are no better than those who supported Obama for free stuff. No passes given as far as I am concerned. Did they not understand that the rat-eared wonder wouldn’t be the epitome of fiscal responsibility in a second term?

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 2:17 PM

I agree with Norquist that these negotiations should take place openly. I’m not sure that that would accelerate a solution, but at least we would be able to hold everyone accountable for their actions.
– Ed

Well what’s happening (finally) now is that everyone is being held accountable for their inaction.
That Grover Norquist has a highchair at the table is just ridiculous.
And if his pledge signers are really so worried…then just let the Bush cuts expire and then vote for a tax cut for middle incomers.
A win-win!
And if the GOP is so convinced that this slight tax increase on the job creators super wealthy will just devastate the economy…well then they can run on that in 2016. But perhaps they’re worried about a different outcome…

verbaluce on November 26, 2012 at 2:18 PM

It’s only fair that we go along with raising taxes. After all, the Dems got on board with making the Bush tax cuts permanent after he won in 2004.

/sarc

xblade on November 26, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Having been through the tax deals of 1983 and 1991 which were supposed to “cut spending”, I find no faith in deals that don’t show a willingness to cut spending first.

I’ve had this argument online and ask posters to consider cutting Big Bird. Since 1998 the CTW uses corporate sponsorship from Discovery Zone, and makes some $40-50 million annually. Why not let Big Bird provide complete sponsorship and get off the public dole?

I’ve been ridiculed over this, stating Sesame Street is .0000001 of the budget, to which I state this only proves my point, you’re not willing even to make this small concession.

As stated before: the mantra from Democrats is increase taxes as long as it doesn’t increase mine, and cut funding in anything I don’t get support from.

itsspideyman on November 26, 2012 at 2:23 PM

And if the GOP is so convinced that this slight tax increase on the job creators super wealthy will just devastate the economy…well then they can run on that in 2016. But perhaps they’re worried about a different outcome…

verbaluce

Maybe they’re concerned with right versus wrong….something a lib like yourself is never concerned about.

One thing they’re not worried about is this slight tax increase magically creating a single job, or magically stimulating the economy one single bit, or magically addressing Obama’s trillion dollar annual deficits by a single dollar. And by the way, Republicans control the House….they don’t have to wait for 2016 to do anything.

xblade on November 26, 2012 at 2:26 PM

I’ve been ridiculed over this, stating Sesame Street is .0000001 of the budget, to which I state this only proves my point, you’re not willing even to make this small concession.

itsspideyman on November 26, 2012 at 2:23 PM

It’s an interesting tactic. Go in there loaded for Big Bird and a couple of other hot-button items and tell the rat-eared wonder that if he wants his tax hikes on the middle class to pay for “free stuff” then Big Bird has got to go. I’d throw in a couple of the unworkable aspects of Obamacare and federal funding to states for hiring teachers (not a federal responsibility). Let’s see how serious the administration is to a balanced approach to the fiscal cliff.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 2:29 PM

Is Norquist’s optimism justified? We’ll almost certainly see proposals to raise taxes in the Senate, if not in the House. Will ATR signatories vote for such a package if it contains significant reform elements?

Grover is at least optimistic to understand that eventually the whole house will collapse around itself without spending reform.

We’re currently having to have the Fed give the U.S. 70-77% (I’ve heard both these numbers being reported) in order to pay for the U.S. Bond fundings. In other words, the Fed is printing money to pay for U.S. Bonds. Only 23-30% is being bought by other countries, and it will sink as other countries lose faith in the U.S.’ ability to match its commitments.

The only way to cut the gap is through spending reform. Grover knows at least this, and even if the Republicans cave and sign off on tax increases, it’s doomed to failure.

itsspideyman on November 26, 2012 at 2:30 PM

That’s a just reward conservatives reap for letting the liberals pollute the public education system. The change for the better will not happen until public schooling is limited to “3 R”‘s and public unions are kicked out.

Archivarix on November 26, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Very true. The liberals control the public education system, the media and the courts, which is why there has been a “180″ on issues like illegal immigration and gay marriage.

bw222 on November 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM

The change for the better will not happen until public schooling is limited to “3 R”‘s and public unions are kicked out.

Archivarix on November 26, 2012 at 1:21 PM

That’s been the problem. Public education has been focused on the 3 Rs of the left. Revolution, re-orientation, and (socialist) rhetoric. The public schools are nothing but incubators for socialism where children are trained to a radical left world view before they are cognizant enough to understand that Che wasn’t a good guy or that no matter the reality of climate change- mankind can’t alter the effects by carbon credits.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Republican should create two seperate bills to vote on:

Bill # 1: Extend the Bush tax cuts for people who make less than $ 200,000 as individuals, $ 250,000 as couples. This will pass and the parasite class President will sign it.

Bill # 2: Extend the Bush tax cuts also for those making more than $ 200,000 as individuals and $ 250,000 as couples… This will pass the House and the Senate Republicans will vote on it and may be some democrat senators as well but the parasites President will veto it. This will ensure that the job creators will be hurt badly, the economy will be hurt badly, and there is no excuse under the sun that can save Obama and his socialists in this case.

mnjg on November 26, 2012 at 2:45 PM

The liberals control the public education system, the media and the courts, which is why there has been a “180″ on issues like illegal immigration and gay marriage.

bw222 on November 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM

Let’s not pretend that Big Bird and “touch this” Elmo hasn’t had a role in indoctrinating our children to certain views on social issues.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 2:47 PM

And if the GOP is so convinced that this slight tax increase on the job creators super wealthy will just devastate the economy…well then they can run on that in 2016. But perhaps they’re worried about a different outcome…

verbaluce

A business owner make $ 1 million a year and employs 6 people in his small company. If his tax rate goes from 35% to 39.6%, and not including the tax rate increase on capital gain and dividends, he is going to pay an extra $ 40,000 a year in taxes. So instead of losing $ 40,000 a year in income due to the tax increase he is either going to lay off one of his employees, or cut the wages for his employees, and for sure he is not going to expand his business and hire anyone…

The above example is simple business & economy 101 on what tax increases would do to a small business or even large business… However communists like you will never understand these basic principles because your goal is to steal other people money…

mnjg on November 26, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Know the real Grover Norquist

http://www.newswithviews.com/Nelson/kelleigh155.htm

wolf in sheeps clothing..no republican should sign his pledge

sadsushi on November 26, 2012 at 2:53 PM

mnjg on November 26, 2012 at 2:45 PM

Too complicated. My best advice to the GOP is to stick to a common-sense approach like the foundation of the Ryan Plan and be prepared to pre-emptively attack the rat-eared wonder and his party when they scream about obstructionism and class warfare. And the way you do that most effectively is pass legislation through the House and then fight every single proposed change in the court of public opinion.

Framed by the idea that Americans from the rat-eared wonder on down have declared that this is the time of shared sacrifice. Not just those making over $200K but ALL Americans. And while the GOP wishes that we could fund it all, the Demoncrats are going have to join Republicans in making hard and immediate cuts to certain programs if others are to remain unscathed. In short, the GOP doesn’t propose cuts nearest and dearest to the Dems constiuencies they set up a “Sophie’s choice” of options with full explanation that simply raising taxes now without these cuts occurring simultaneously is unacceptable and will not pass the House.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 2:53 PM

wolf in sheeps clothing..no republican should sign his pledge

sadsushi on November 26, 2012 at 2:53 PM

I’ve never thought such pledges are effective or wise.

Happy Nomad on November 26, 2012 at 2:54 PM

The answer to the poll depends on whether the deal comes to a vote this year or next.

If they have to vote this year on Le Grande Compromise Part Deux – top effective marginal rate of 44%-46% with a limit on deductions for just “the rich” placed on top of Clinton+PlaceboCare rates (with the top rate starting at the first dollar for those who qualify) and a lifting of the FICA/SECA SocSecurity cap in exchange for non-defense spending cuts (and perhaps a bit of the defense spending cuts) removed and a 2-year extension of low-end Bush tax rates (10%/15% and perhaps the 25%) and the FICA/SECA tax holiday – about 30% of them will vote for it.

If they wait until next year, I expect a solid 75% to vote for it so they can claim they voted for tax cuts.

Steve Eggleston on November 26, 2012 at 3:01 PM

A business owner make $ 1 million a year and employs 6 people in his small company. If his tax rate goes from 35% to 39.6%, and not including the tax rate increase on capital gain and dividends, he is going to pay an extra $ 40,000 a year in taxes. So instead of losing $ 40,000 a year in income due to the tax increase he is either going to lay off one of his employees, or cut the wages for his employees, and for sure he is not going to expand his business and hire anyone…

The above example is simple business & economy 101 on what tax increases would do to a small business or even large business… However communists like you will never understand these basic principles because your goal is to steal other people money…

mnjg on November 26, 2012 at 2:50 PM

If memory serves, it would be roughly 42% because as part of “the rich”, said business owner would be dinged with the nearly-3% PlaceboCare tax.

Steve Eggleston on November 26, 2012 at 3:02 PM

If memory serves, it would be roughly 42% because as part of “the rich”, said business owner would be dinged with the nearly-3% PlaceboCare tax.

Steve Eggleston on November 26, 2012 at 3:02 PM

You are right… I forgot about the Obamcare tax…

mnjg on November 26, 2012 at 3:29 PM

A business owner make $ 1 million a year and employs 6 people in his small company. If his tax rate goes from 35% to 39.6%, and not including the tax rate increase on capital gain and dividends, he is going to pay an extra $ 40,000 a year in taxes. So instead of losing $ 40,000 a year in income due to the tax increase he is either going to lay off one of his employees, or cut the wages for his employees, and for sure he is not going to expand his business and hire anyone…

The above example is simple business & economy 101 on what tax increases would do to a small business or even large business… However communists like you will never understand these basic principles because your goal is to steal other people money…

mnjg on November 26, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Your above ‘example’ is B.S. 101.
I suppose in your fantasy he hired 2 employees when he got the Bush cut?
I own a biz – and the idea that the tax rates being discussed here are going to demotivate growth is just silly.
(And I’m a communist at 39.6% and you’re some sort of Milton Friedman at 35%? Ha.)
The fact is that tax cuts do not lead to growth – and historically job creation and economic growth have followed tax raises on upper incomes.

verbaluce on November 26, 2012 at 3:31 PM

Grover Hussein Norquist.

Akzed on November 26, 2012 at 3:49 PM

The fact is that tax cuts do not lead to growth – and historically job creation and economic growth have followed tax raises on upper incomes. verbaluce on November 26, 2012 at 3:31 PM

On 8 of the 10 key economic variables examined, the American economy performed better during the Reagan years than during the pre-and post-Reagan years.

Real economic growth averaged 3.2 percent during the Reagan years versus 2.8 percent during the Ford-Carter years and 2.1 percent during the Bush-Clinton years.

Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years.

Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency.

The only economic variable that was worse in the Reagan period than in both the pre- and post-Reagan years was the savings rate, which fell rapidly in the 1980s. The productivity rate was higher in the pre-Reagan years but much lower in the post-Reagan years.

This study also exposes 12 fables of Reaganomics, such as that the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, the Reagan tax cuts caused the deficit to explode, and Bill Clinton’s economic record has been better than Reagan’s.

Akzed on November 26, 2012 at 3:53 PM

any republican that votes for a tax increase deserves what will follow, if the republicans vote for a tax increase they will have given the democrats permanent majority party status. The federal gov will follow california into the black hole

RonK on November 26, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Akzed on November 26, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Not to mention, the economic principles that you mention were also proven to be successful under presidents Coolidge and Harding (H/T to Resist We Much).

But historical facts are to people like verbaluce as holy water is to a vampire.

UltimateBob on November 26, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Akzed on November 26, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Excellent. Thanks for the link. It should be one of those basics, like people are happier under freedom than Communism, but they spun that one too.

itsspideyman on November 26, 2012 at 5:43 PM

After the Republicans abandon their 32 year old stand on not raising taxes, what position of any significance will they have left to separate them from Democrats?

opaobie on November 26, 2012 at 7:43 PM

It’s all about the spending. This debate is a leftist smoke screen. Any real Republican would be demanding both spending AND tax cuts- deep, immediate tax cuts- for all americans ESPECIALLY THE RICH. And demanding them in the name of the values Dems allegedly support: Affordable healthcare? Cut the doctor’s taxes. Raising the living standards of the poor? Cut the taxes and regulations on manufacturers. Competitive education? Get the government out of the business of education.
More collectivism is more poison. The only vaccine is Laissez-Faire Capitalism.

WyattsTorch on November 27, 2012 at 9:42 AM