Do you really want a democratic China?

posted at 1:01 pm on November 24, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

This popped up in the headlines section earlier, but given current events it’s certainly something to consider as we wrestle with foreign policy questions in the coming months and years. Jan Hornat put forward the idea that Chinese democracy as a political model for the world’s other economic superpower probably wouldn’t be any better than the Guns and Roses album of the same name. Or, as she put it, Chinese Democracy is No Goal.

Democratization would upgrade China’s political power and credibility in the international community. The United States and the European Union would forego the leverage of confronting China about its policies, as China’s laws would be the result of a popularly elected government.

New problems, which could destabilize democracy, might appear. For example, would Tibet and Xinjiang attempt to breakaway? How would privatization of state firms and redistribution of land proceed? What would North Korea do in the midst of losing its only ally? If Chinese democracy could not meet growth rates of authoritarian China, how would the Chinese public react?

Like Western-style democracies, a democratic China may repudiate its non-interventionist doctrine and be more assertive in pursuit of its interests. How would the United States react to a Chinese “coalition of the willing”? Democratic or not, China would still depend on a growing amount of natural resources and territorial disputes in the South China Sea would continue to disrupt regional security.

First of all, I don’t think we’re in any imminent “danger” of China suddenly experiencing a popular uprising and turning democratic. If it didn’t happen after Tiananmen Square, it doesn’t look like it’s going to come about in the next generation. Also, the Chinese government has been extremely effective for many decades in keeping a sufficient number of the correct people completely beholden to the interests of the state and dependent upon its largess. Their control of the flow of information to the masses outside of the major cities also keeps them in a fairly secure position.

But the warnings cited about China can, in a larger sense, be transferred to any number of places around the globe. If the past decade has shown us anything, it should be that democracy isn’t a plant which grows equally well in all soils. And even when it does seem to pop up – either on its own or through intervention – it has a propensity to grow a bit wild, in hard to predict fashions. We ostensibly have an elected democracy in Iraq now, but it still manages to bear very little resemblance to Texas, oil supplies aside. “The people” rose up in Egypt recently to oust a dictator and take back the power for the great, unwashed masses. How’s that working out so far? I seem to recall somebody from the previous President’s administration saying something about democracy being “messy” …

Democracy simply for democracy’s sake isn’t much of a goal if history is to be any guideline. And China is a huge, complicated and frankly dangerous puzzle. At this point a stable China is, as I see it, a far preferable option compared to the alternative. We need to keep a close eye on them, but their future is in their own hands.


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I’m thinking “nuts” would be an appropriate response.

Eloquent, concise, and effective.

All things our diplomats are incapable of today.

BobMbx on April 24, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Rumours like this have surfaced in the testimony of several defectors coming from North Korea. Whether they are true or not – and we may never know – the fact that they circulate and are believed illustrates the level of hunger, deprivation and fear in parts of the country that marked the Great Famine.

When a million people are starved to death, it’s a near certainty that some will resort to cannibalism.

RadClown on April 24, 2013 at 5:34 PM

Obama reminding lil kim that he’s got big balls of brass.

nonpartisan on April 24, 2013 at 5:35 PM

Umm… John Kerry said they had ballistic nuclear missiles…

Seems the Norks want us to treat them as such.

Frankly the smart move would’ve had Obama calling for them to submit to UN regulations regarding nuclear states before any further talks can go forward…

But y’know I’m just a gun ownin’ redneck conservative and don’t understand such complexities like the lightbringer…

Skywise on April 24, 2013 at 5:38 PM

North Korea is pretty much never going to be taken seriously again, after the last months, unless they actually go to war with someone. The shrill and hysterical rhetoric was basically open threats of nuclear war and they are clearly backing down.

Doomberg on April 24, 2013 at 5:41 PM

If the REB accepts this as he eventually will, Japan has no choice but to build nuclear weapons.

slickwillie2001 on April 24, 2013 at 5:42 PM

North Korea wants to be recognized as a NUCKED country? Someone can make that a fact but not Obama.

meci on April 24, 2013 at 5:46 PM

I say just we do it, already. We wouldn’t want them to nuke us out of frustration over common misconceptions of their nation and culture.

abobo on April 24, 2013 at 5:46 PM

seriously? With THOSE hats?!

kirkill on April 24, 2013 at 5:53 PM

“I heard that people sold and ate human flesh,” says Chanyang Joo. “I heard they were killing other family’s babies and selling the flesh after burying the head and fingers.”

Kermit Gosnell’s defense: he thought he was in North Korea.

rbj on April 24, 2013 at 5:55 PM

seriously? With THOSE hats?!

Nice accessories to the platform boots they wear.

hawkeye54 on April 24, 2013 at 5:58 PM

Kermit Gosnell’s defense: he thought he was in North Korea.

Considering his work environment, that would be an easy mistake to make.

hawkeye54 on April 24, 2013 at 5:59 PM

Years ago, I read the nonfiction book by William Craig upon which the film of the same title ‘Enemy At the Gates’ was based. After the German defeat at Stalingrad, some German POWs in Siberia became mad with hunger and resorted to cannibalism. These starving prisoners started roving in packs, scavenging for fresh corpses, but soon began attacking other prisoners. Eventually, (still-sane) German officers and NCOs convinced the Russians to give them crowbars so that they could organize and systematically hunt down the cannibals. Until now, that was one of the worst substantiated true stories I knew about.

The horror story that is North Korea just goes on and on. I can’t think of a single people in the history of the world–at least in modern history–who has suffered more than they have.

troyriser_gopftw on April 24, 2013 at 6:11 PM

Well, looks like they will have to drop one on somebody.

jake49 on April 24, 2013 at 6:12 PM

I wonder how much those North Korean military hats weigh?

bw222 on April 24, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Well, looks like they will have to drop one on somebody.

They do that, and the Norks will likely get full recognition ….probably more than they’re demanding.

hawkeye54 on April 24, 2013 at 6:35 PM

North Korea may be the biggest casualty of the Boston Bombing and the manhunt for the terrorist. It sure wiped their ranting’s right out of the media news cycle, and now, nobody gives a crap.

Wallythedog on April 24, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Obama should announce that NK does not know the first thing about nuclear power, their whole country is always without electricity.

KenInIL on April 24, 2013 at 7:36 PM

U.S. rejects NorKs’ demand for recognition as a nuclear state

Setting off a few tons of TNT underground doesn’t merit such recognition-whatever that means anyway.

Dr. ZhivBlago on April 25, 2013 at 12:19 AM

Well they DO demand that they be called the DEMOCRATIC People’s Republic of Korea.
And in similar fashion we have a DEMOCRATIC Party that is lead by a narcissitic twit a.k.a King Putt.

There was a diplomatic message sent to Washington from Little Kim Jong-un that read: We will destroy America, its spirit and their economy.
Our Dear Liar, President Present replied back: Too Late!

Remember when he leaves office in Janurary 2015 … HIDE ALL OF THE TELEPROMPTERS. OK?

Missilengr on April 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM