Lindsey Stone loses her job

posted at 5:01 pm on November 22, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

While many of us take time out today to be thankful for all of our blessings, there’s at least one household with a bit less to be thankful for. It’s being reported that on the day before Thanksgiving, Lindsey Stone and one of her colleagues were fired from their jobs. In case you somehow missed the story, Lindsey is the woman who managed to exercise her right to free speech in a manner so incredibly offensive that people across the nation took to social media demanding she be fired from her job. If your love of civil liberties has you feeling sorry for her, you might want to hold back on defending her here.

Lindsey Stone, the Plymouth, Massachusetts woman who posted a photo of herself giving the middle finger in front of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, creating a firestorm of Internet backlash and outrage, was fired from her job Wednesday…

The photo, which has been taken down, was first posted last month on Stone’s personal Facebook page, and showed Stone giving the middle finger while pretending to yell next to a sign that read “Silence and Respect” at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the Arlington National Cemetery.

The picture in question (linked here with the offending digit blurred out) was enough to get people from all across the political spectrum up in arms. And I offer no apologies for saying I was among that group. But as the story unfolded, there were those speaking up in defense of Stone, such as Business Insider author Robert Johnson – a veteran himself – who argued that the young woman’s life shouldn’t be “ruined” over a “stupid Facebook post.”

But as outrage grows — leading to posts across the Internet and Facebook groups devoted to getting her fired — I feel compelled to defend her.

Stone was at the cemetery on an office trip. She’s pretending to be neither silent or respectful next to a sign that demands she be both. As in, “Look it says I can’t. But I am.” I get it. I remember standing on the wall of a deep gorge in high school that had the words Do Not Stand here painted on it. I took a picture of my shoe beside them. These are silly, immature, little rebellions.

More importantly, if Lindsey Stone wants to rip on the Tomb of the Unknowns, me, my service, or the hundreds of mutilated troops I served with at Walter Reed Medical Center, she should be able to do so without fear of retribution. Freedom like that is what we fought for, and respecting other opinions is part of what the military tried to teach all of us who served.

As part of his argument, Johnson points to an op-ed by Marine officer and Naval Academy instructor Aaron O’Connel. There’s too much to include here, but the basic thrust of the argument is that the national attitude toward our troops has reached the point where the “blind adoration of the military and its personnel is getting creepy.” They both also put forward the assertion that, “questioning institutions and individuals, including the military and its troops, is good and healthy.”

That last statement is obviously true. (And this is also coming from another veteran.) The military is composed of real human beings and some of them will, on occasion, deviate from the standards we expect or make poor decisions. Military policy is certainly up for public debate. But none of this changes what I see as the primary failing of both of these arguments when it comes to the specifics of Ms. Stone’s situation. There are two arguments here: one being the woman’s right to free speech and the other being the fact that the military is fairly subject to criticism just as much as any other institution.

On the first count, I don’t see anyone trying to deprive Lindsey Stone’s first amendment rights. If this had happened and the government – at any level – was trying to punish her, I fully believe that each and every one of us would be up in arms over it. But the government isn’t doing a thing to her. What she is dealing with is the reaction of the public and her employers by way of exercising their own rights to speech and action in response to an act she freely chose to perform and publish. We are all free to speak, but we also bear the responsibility for what other free citizens decide to say in response to us.

As far as the military criticism angle goes, with apologies to Mr. Johnson, this is complete malarkey (as Joe Biden might say). In her completely unpersuasive apology, posted on her Facebook page, Lindsey said that it was “a visual pun” intended to make fun of the sign. But for us to buy this, we would need to ignore the fact that she was on an employee sponsored trip specifically to visit Arlington. She knew precisely where she was and the importance of the ground on which she stood. She was within sight of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. This is the important distinction which those seeking to defend Stone need to understand. She was not “criticizing the military” or “challenging authority” in that moment.

She was grossly and crudely insulting the Honored Dead.

As I stated above, anyone is free to criticize the military or debate Washington foreign policy. But if there is anything in this world which I hope every American citizen could agree on, it’s that those men and women buried at Arlington – and our family has three there, by the way – are beyond reproach. There is no criticism of the Honored Dead. They gave the last full measure for the rest of us and are not a subject for politics or pranks. This was no stunt or “visual pun.” It was a horrific act which rightly brought a collective scream of rage from Americans across the country. And while she broke no laws and is facing no punishment from her government, she should have expected the backlash which followed.

Apology not accepted.

And with that, I’ll step down off of my soapbox and wish each and every one of you a blessed Thanksgiving and hope you find peace, with a chance to reflect on all your blessings.


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Are we going to start having these kinds of lynch mob campaigns every time someone says something that might be perceived as offensive, no matter what their intentions?

bluegill on November 25, 2012 at 10:57 AM

In the words of our great president.

“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.”

No. I don’t expect anyone to get it.

Frank Enstine on November 25, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Don’t you think there might have been a better way to resolve this situation?

Yeah Lindsey Stone could have taken the photo down when her friends asked her too. Other than that I am perfectly fine with some public shaming and fine with the firing since it happened on company time.

or what ever the thing is you just know you have moral superiority over me on.

It’s the bell curve baby and you are way on the end. I choose not to play your game.

Frank your post smells like hypocrisy and you don’t even see it..

melle1228 on November 25, 2012 at 11:37 AM

From the post:

She knew precisely where she was and the importance of the ground on which she stood. She was within sight of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. This is the important distinction which those seeking to defend Stone need to understand. She was not “criticizing the military” or “challenging authority” in that moment.

Wow. Quite a leap there, AP!

The first two sentences really do not belong with the last two . . . in any respect. and they certainly do not follow from the logic thereof.

If she knew where she was and the importance of the place, how do you know what she was thinking when she took that photo? Perhaps more importantly, how do you know what she was thinking when she was deciding to post it on her FaceBook page for the entire world to see.

Do you “know” what she was thinking (or not thinking) at those two moments, as a result of what she later said in her “apology” as a way to try to make light and therefore defend what she did? To me, it reads suspiciously like an illegitimate version of the old “Oh, come on . . . I was joking” defense — substituting “pun” for “joke.” If that was what she was thinking, why didn’t she post that explanation on FB, along with the photo — just to lend the proper perspective to her posting?

Maybe she had a few things that motivated her to follow through in such a nasty way, especially when she was posting it!

And, perhaps those motivations included a desire to “criticize the military” and/or “challenge authority,” topped off by a strong desire to spit in the eye of the sensibilities that so many people hold dear — probably including her employer and some, if not all, of the the people she worked with there.

My sense is that her employer did absolutely the right thing. He or she simply owes this girl no obligation whatsoever to tolerate that sort of behavior, whether the employer viewed it as a few acts of real immaturity, or essentially as acts of contemptible disrespect to the employer, and the other participants in the group, or as some combination of reasons that prompted the employer to can her.

It won’t ruin her life. I have little doubt she will now seek to parlay this thoroughly obnoxious behavior into some sort of cause that will draw further attention to her. Maybe she will become litigious in addition to obnoxious. That may ruin her life for a while, or it could turn her into a cause celeb. Maybe Chris Matthews will have her on his show.

It may be that the real mistake the employer made was hiring her in the first place.

Trochilus on November 25, 2012 at 12:04 PM

I agree with Haunches orientation.

Happy Nomad on November 24, 2012 at 3:42 PM

We said the same thing.

The Tomb of the Unknowns stands in front of the Amphitheater building. There are a set of steps leading up from the Amphitheater along each side the building to the plaza in front of the Amphitheater from each side of the building, and there are small greenswards about those steps. If you look behind Ms. Stone, you see the steps, and the marble corner of the Amphitheater building.

The steps cannot be the ones before the Amphitheater leading up directly to the Tomb, because those steps have a short wall on either side — so it has to be the side of the building nearest the Amphitheater.

I could be wrong. If so, someone who has been there more often than I, or who can go there, will figure out what location near the Tomb is (a) of marble, (b) is a building, (c) has steps leading up its side, and (c) has a downspout near the stairs.

Those signs are all over Arlington, but that marble really does look to me like the stuff they used for the Amphitheater.

This is interesting:

It is requested that every one maintains a level of silence and respect.

unclesmrgol on November 25, 2012 at 2:28 PM

melle1228 on November 23, 2012 at 10:58 PM

TEE-HEE-HEE!! bluegill’s new nickname is “DramaQueen“!!

HAH!!

Gotta Love That!!

good one, melle!

williamg on November 25, 2012 at 3:47 PM

We should honor the person not the symbol. When we honor a symbol we are no better than the people that kill in because their symbol was dishonored.

She dishonored a person or rather people. What do you think is in the Tomb?

Haunches on November 25, 2012 at 5:49 PM

She dishonored a person or rather people. What do you think is in the Tomb?

Haunches on November 25, 2012 at 5:49 PM

They don’t get that. To them Lindsey is poor innocent victim to the mob.

melle1228 on November 25, 2012 at 7:29 PM

What do you all think of the story about a Gossip blog contacting the schools and potential colleges of teens who wrote nasty and sometimes racist online comments about Obama.

Here it is:
http://alturl.com/xgm92

Seems to be somewhat related to this photo controversy. I am not stating any judgement here about this other story, but just wonder about your reactions to it.

bluegill on November 25, 2012 at 8:30 PM

What do you all think of the story about a Gossip blog contacting the schools and potential colleges of teens who wrote nasty and sometimes racist online comments about Obama.

Seriously? Whether it’s students posting racist comments online, or some idiot behaving like a Neanderthal at Arlington, repulsive and stupid behavior has consequences, period.

BTW, I’m assuming they will do a story on students who wrote nasty and racist comments about black Republicans as well. Can’t wait!

MisterPundit on November 25, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Seems to be somewhat related to this photo controversy. I am not stating any judgement here about this other story, but just wonder about your reactions to it.

bluegill on November 25, 2012 at 8:30 PM

Seems fine to me especially because the fact is they were using their school’s logo on their tweets.

melle1228 on November 25, 2012 at 10:55 PM

Hey dumb dumb dummy…..

I suppose you’ll be just fine if I find where your friends and relatives are buried and take a giant literal $h!t on their graves.

No you won’t be okay with that?

Hmm then here’s an idea for ya Miss Lindsey DON’T DO IT TO MINE! Respect my friends in that cemetery. They’re there for a reason.

SgtSVJones on November 26, 2012 at 12:48 AM

As I said before, the reaction to this photo and the demands that this woman’s life be absolutely destroyed remind me of how Muslims reacted in Sudan a few years ago when they called for a European teacher to be stoned when she innocently named a class teddy bear “Mohammed.”

bluegill on November 25, 2012 at 4:08 AM

That’s because you’re dishonest.

The situation is closer to, say, some Marines urinating on the bodies of dead terrorists. Except, IIRC, those Marines are facing courts martial, when all Stone lost was her job.

malclave on November 26, 2012 at 1:30 AM

That’s because you’re dishonest.
The situation is closer to, say, some Marines urinating on the bodies of dead terrorists. Except, IIRC, those Marines are facing courts martial, when all Stone lost was her job.
malclave on November 26, 2012 at 1:30 AM

My point was that both situations involve a person performing an act that was viewed by many to be offensive, and the person who committed the offensive act did not intend it to be offensive (though the general reaction was that the person SHOULD have known better). What’s more, the reaction to the offensive act was disproportionately harsh in relation to the harm caused by the original act. In both situations you had people with no direct connection to the initial act calling for ever harsher punishments to be given to the person in question. In both cases, the story went viral and over time public outrage became exponentially greater day by day. In short, the reaction to both was akin to a lynch mob, of sorts.

Now, you say that Lindsey Stone “only” lost her job. But she lost a lot more than that. Her name and image are plastered all over the Internet on blogs mischaracterizing her as a vulgar person who insults the military. Most of what has been posted on these blogs will always be online, and is not going to disappear in just a few months. She receives death threats, her phone number and home address are posted on many of these blogs, and she will probably have to assume a new name and move because of this whole situation. She suffered a loss of reputation, a loss of anonymity, loss of livelihood, and is also being threatened with physical violence. The effects of this character assassination campaign will be felt almost forever.

Pointing out the unnecessary and disproportionate nature of the response to this photo is not excusing Ms. Stone of all guilt. You all better hope that you never find yourselves the target of an Internet lynch mob over a careless mistake like this one.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 5:34 AM

Another similarity I forgot to include was that the perceived target of the alleged offense was something that was held in particularly high esteem by the public. In other words, any perceived offense involving that particular target would be taboo and totally forbidden by social standards.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 5:55 AM

1. Don’t say anything that can even remotely be taken as bad about in defense of cops.

Frank Enstine on November 25, 2012 at 9:07 AM

FIFY (At least in my experience.)

Nobody is claiming moral authority mmkay?

melle1228 on November 25, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Actually, a bunch of folks here have claimed moral authority on this topic purely based on the presence of their relatives in that particular cemetery or being “represented by” the Tomb of the Unknowns, or due to their service. Including you:

Would you like the names of funerals I have attended the last ten years? My husband has served in the military for the last 21 years….

People like you do not get the respect that the military give their dead.

melle1228 on November 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM

mischaracterizing her as a vulgar person who insults the military.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 5:34 AM

I don’t think it’s a mischaracterization to label her as ‘vulgar’.

GWB on November 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM

bluegill says:

I think it is silly to play that “moral superiority trump card.” Let me tell you I would probably have a stronger claim to that trump card than most of you.

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on November 26, 2012 at 10:06 AM

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on November 26, 2012 at 10:06 AM

I didn’t notice her say that until now. What a pompous joker.

Not only is bluegill an immature dingbat like her good friend Lindsey, she is a freakshow, too!

Anti-Control on November 26, 2012 at 10:45 AM

I work for an ad agency that advertises theatrical and dvd releases for a large, well-known studio.

One of the papers I signed when I was employed specifically mentioned that I could be let go for anything done in public that could reflect poorly on the company – they actually took the time to specifically call out blogging and social networking. The general thrust was “post what you want, do what you want, but if it causes issues for us, we reserve the right to terminate you”.

I’ve always assumed that all employers would do that. This one just took the time to spell it out in an official policy that I had to sign.

If the trouble you create for your employer outstrips the value you create for your employer, you’ll lose your job.

Now, I can be absolutely fine with that without being fine with people posting her home address and sending her threatening messages. There are laws against at least the latter and anyone that engaged in that behavior should be prosecuted.

JadeNYU on November 26, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Actually, a bunch of folks here have claimed moral authority on this topic purely based on the presence of their relatives in that particular cemetery or being “represented by” the Tomb of the Unknowns, or due to their service. Including you:</blockquote>

Would you like the names of funerals I have attended the last ten years? My husband has served in the military for the last 21 years….

People like you do not get the respect that the military give their dead.

melle1228 on November 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM

No dumb A$$- I wasn’t claiming moral authority but good job of pasting my words out of context. I put that information in response to bluegill saying that “people have to makeup lives” to defend how they feel about this girl.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

I didn’t notice her say that until now. What a pompous joker.

Not only is bluegill an immature dingbat like her good friend Lindsey, she is a freakshow, too!

Anti-Control on November 26, 2012 at 10:45 AM

She is an idiot. She is victimizing Lindsey for things that Lindsey is directly responsible for- Like the fact that this picture will live forever on the internet- LINDSEY put it there. Don’t want public input-email this photo privately.

And the fact that she thinks it is an overreaction because Lindsey didn’t specifically do it to anyone personally is just as idiotic. EVERYONE in America should be personally offended by Lindsey acting the way she did.

And BTW, BG a lot of people’s lives have taken a turn for the worst in response to something they put on the internet. That is why YOU DON’T POST $hit like this.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Actually, a bunch of folks here have claimed moral authority on this topic purely based on the presence of their relatives in that particular cemetery or being “represented by” the Tomb of the Unknowns, or due to their service. Including you
GWB on November 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM

And furthermore you are as big a twit as bluegill. Please read her posts before you defend her okay.. Bluegill states that we can’t find it offensive because we all had no connection to the direct act.

In both situations you had people with no direct connection to the initial act calling bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 5:34 AM

And some of us do have a connection to the direct act by having people we know buried in fricking arlington cemetery.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM

I don’t think it’s a mischaracterization to label her as ‘vulgar’.
GWB on November 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM

It is a mischaracterization to say that she purposefully insulted the military.

Setting aside the whole issue of the cemetery setting and the importance of honoring the dead, does flipping the bird in an ill-conceived site gag make someone a vulgar person? Maybe she is, maybe she isn’t. None of us knows her. When one of the only images we have of her shows her pretending to angrily scream while flipping off a sign, of course she is not going to leave the impression of being a well-mannered princess. And, really, which of us has never used that gesture before? Well, maybe some of you haven’t, but I use it every now and then towards other drivers on the highway, though only when they deserve it. Hehe. It is a very effective gesture with many uses, and is still potent and gets the job done after all these years.

Let’s not forget that she was merely acting and playing the role of a loud and disrespectful person for the purpose of making a visual joke that could have been made anywhere. It is a staged pose!

You all do realize that she wasn’t seriously flipping off anyone, don’t you? And you do recognize that her unfortunate attempt at humor was not an attempt to make any commentary whatsoever on the subject of the memorial? If a stranger’s momentary lack of decorum causes you all such terrible pain, then I don’t know how you guys manage to get through a week of life with all the “offensive” things you must encounter.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 11:16 AM

If the trouble you create for your employer outstrips the value you create for your employer, you’ll lose your job.

JadeNYU on November 26, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Exactly right. The thing is, I doubt she would have been fired if her employer had not been badgered by nonstop phone calls from angry people across the country complaining about the photo. Even if the employer had seen the photo, but had not received all of the complaints, my guess is she would still have her job. She lost her job because nosy, misdirected, vindictive tattletales were whipped up by an online campaign designed to exact revenge. The pressure from these vengeful people is really, I believe, what made the difference. Is this something to celebrate? I don’t think so.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 11:28 AM

And I meant “sight gag,” not “site gag.” Again, it is that darn iPhone dictation feature that gets those kinds of things wrong. I just wanted to correct this before melle1228 accused me of supporting the idea of making fun of the cemetery site, which no one is doing.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 11:39 AM

And I meant “sight gag,” not “site gag.” Again, it is that darn iPhone dictation feature that gets those kinds of things wrong. I just wanted to correct this before melle1228 accused me of supporting the idea of making fun of the cemetery site, which no one is doing.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Drama Queen ^^^^

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Many people have called for her to be killed, kicked out of the country, assaulted, you name it. Apparently you haven’t been reading the blogs which have been covering this story. The comments on Facebook are very eye-opening as well.

bluegill on November 24, 2012 at 6:53 AM

So what? Where is your outrage over the calls for Mitt Romney’s death or pain all through the election season? Did you express similar empathy for Sarah Palin, an extremely good person, who was and it savaged by thousands on Facebook every time she posts an essay? People are uncouth, sad to say. But if you are going to call random and semi-anonymous nobodies from around the internet who make hyperbolic statements a lynch mob, at least be consistent and decry it no matter who the target of the idiocy. Since we know that isn’t your bent, get over it.

Freelancer on November 26, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Khun Joe,

You’re describing the sort of reparative compensation owed to her by the people who mobbed up to get her fired.

eh on November 24, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Wow, a new level of stupid has been achieved. Miss Stone did wrong. She proudly published proof of her doing wrong. The fact that she was there on a company dime is not insignificant. All rolled up, it cost her job to have done wrong. But you blame those who were offended by her doing wrong, and think they owe her something.

Nobody owes her anything. She owes apologies. The one she gave is the only one she is capable of giving, so that is settled. But her actions had consequences, and those consequences were appropriate.

Freelancer on November 26, 2012 at 12:08 PM

The fact that she was there on a company dime is not insignificant.

Bingo! This alone made her firing okay with me. If she wasn’t on company time- I would still think she was a twit and be offended, but I wouldn’t be okay with her firing.

And the fact that her companies’ clientele included disabled veterans cements the fact that I think she should be fired.

The fact that bluegill can see the different branches of the future and thinks she wouldn’t be fired if not for the “mob” is incidental. It could have been one of their clients that complained that got her fired.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 12:14 PM

The word “Respect” is at the tomb for a reason.

Cherokee on November 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM

The first sentance on her employer’s website says this:

LIFE (Living Independently Forever, Inc.)
is a unique non profit program that has been serving adults with learning and intellectual disabilities for over 18 years.

So she works with those that have learning and intellectual disabilities. I think her employer was right on the money to fire her. She was disrespectful to the company and to our military. I wouldn’t trust her to be a good example for anyone.

TturnP on November 26, 2012 at 2:25 PM

No dumb A$$- I wasn’t claiming moral authority but good job of pasting my words out of context. I put that information in response to bluegill saying that “people have to makeup lives” to defend how they feel about this girl.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Actually, melle, that is exactly what you were doing with those comments. You laid out that, because of your personal experience, you should be heard, listened to, and believed when saying she had insulted all those buried at Arlington with this gesture. That is claiming moral authority. Whether it is wrong to claim that is a different issue, but you most certainly did claim it. You are not claiming technical authority by those claims, nor are you claiming some sort of position-based authority. You are claiming moral authority.

And, you do it again, right here:

And some of us do have a connection to the direct act by having people we know buried in fricking arlington cemetery.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM

(I know you were responding to bluegill’s statement, but you were also claiming moral authority.) BTW, calling people “dumb A$$” and “twit” and “Drama Queen” undermines your moral authority claim just a wee bit.

As to the other bit of that comment:

And furthermore you are as big a twit as bluegill. Please read her posts before you defend her okay..

I haven’t defended most of bluegill’s statements. In fact, if you would bother to read my comments, you might see that I disagree with her conclusions. As for eh, I have primarily agreed that Stone’s location does not appear to be directly in view of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers, but around the back of the ampitheater. What I have objected to in my comments is people arguing disingenuously, being ignorant, calling commenters profane names and libeling others. A couple of commenters here appear to be totally irrational, and others appear to have the debating skills of a 5yo.

Just in case you don’t want to bother to go back and read my previous comments, here’s the bottom line on this thing from my perspective:
-She was juvenile for doing the gag. She was stupid for not realizing her location would be obvious (based on the sign and her FB postings) and that it would tick off a LOT of people. She was dumb again for posting it publicly. She was thrice stupid when some friends said, “Hey, that’s not a good idea” and she left it up anyways.
-She deserved to get fired for such shenanigans, particularly as it was a company-sponsored trip.
-She did not deserve to have death threats, nor to have her private information (address, phone) posted publicly.
-Some folks here were extremely agitated by this, and – for their own health – need to take a valium or two. She has received her come-uppance, so let it go.
-It shouldn’t be acceptable to libel others, nor to lie about what they have claimed, when debating in the comments of this forum.

GWB on November 26, 2012 at 3:23 PM

And some of us do have a connection to the direct act by having people we know buried in fricking arlington cemetery.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM

(I know you were responding to bluegill’s statement, but you were also claiming moral authority.) BTW, calling people “dumb A$$” and “twit” and “Drama Queen” undermines your moral authority claim just a wee bit.

No again, I was responding to Bluegills statement that NO ONE has a personal connection to this incident and the place when in fact many of us do. Much the same if someone was acting a fool at a cemetery someone you love was buried at then you could claim the same thing..

And as for the names if the shoe fits. And I don’t care about having moral authority- You claim that not I..

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 3:44 PM

In fact, if you would bother to read my comments,
GWB on November 26, 2012 at 3:23 PM

She doesn’t read them.
She has at the very least implied that I support the actions of this woman and I have clearly stated I do not. I challenged melle and therefore I am the enemy.

I find this whole thing fascinating because most conservatives despise what the followers of Islam do when they riot and kill because of cartoons but in a way this is exactly what is going on here. People had the symbol they hold dear and sacred insulted and they have not only called out for the alienation or that person but in some instances the death of the insulter.

Of course they will get really pissed at this view and attack me but I expect no less. Why? because they do not in fact see it as the same but, it really is.

Frank Enstine on November 26, 2012 at 4:55 PM

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 5:34 AM

and the person who committed the offensive act did not intend it to be offensive (though the general reaction was that the person SHOULD have known better).

Didn’t she described herself as a “douchebag” when captioning the pic? You may believe that she did not intend it to be offensive. I disagree.

What’s more, the reaction to the offensive act was disproportionately harsh in relation to the harm caused by the original act.

So it’s like the Marines urinating on the dead terrorists. They’re dead, what harm is a little urine after that? Should they be facing the UCMJ now, or should people just laugh and let it go?

Her name and image are plastered all over the Internet on blogs mischaracterizing her as a vulgar person who insults the military.

Has that been shown to be a mischaracterization?

I’ll even go further… at what cemetery in the country would behavior like that NOT be considered vulgar and disrespectful, regardless of who was buried there?

She receives death threats, her phone number and home address are posted on many of these blogs

I completely agree that her home address and phone number should NOT have been posted. I said as much on the TAH thread (linked earlier in this thread, I believe) when a commenter there posted it, and was glad when a moderator removed it. Death threats, or any illegal activities in response to her actions, should be treated seriously and dealt with appropriately.

malclave on November 26, 2012 at 5:11 PM

. . .
Exactly right. The thing is, I doubt she would have been fired if her employer had not been badgered by nonstop phone calls from angry people across the country complaining about the photo. Even if the employer had seen the photo, but had not received all of the complaints, my guess is she would still have her job. She lost her job because nosy, misdirected, vindictive tattletales were whipped up by an online campaign designed to exact revenge. The pressure from these vengeful people is really, I believe, what made the difference. Is this something to celebrate? I don’t think so.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 11:28 AM

This is exactly wrong. There was a perfectly understandable public outcry, and this girl certainly deserved to lose her job.

And, she also certainly deserved a good deal of the notoriety she not only brought on herself, but also on the company for whom she worked by doing this on “company” time.

Taking the photo in the first place was really stupid. I get a strong sense that Stone put her friend up to that. But posting it on line on FaceBook, after presumably having at least a little time to think about it, was really offensive.

If her “friend” had not been so stupid as to put out a “joint statement” with Lindsey trying to defend the indefensible — once the inevitable outcry began — she/he might have been able to make out a case for a lesser sanction from the employer — such as the initial pre-investigative suspension. But by making it clear through that disingenuous statement that it was really a joint effort on their parts, the employer really had no choice but to fire both of them.

I’d like to think that Stone (and others so inclined) would learn a lesson from this, but somehow I sense we haven’t heard the last of her over this matter.

Trochilus on November 26, 2012 at 5:24 PM

She doesn’t read them.
She has at the very least implied that I support the actions of this woman and I have clearly stated I do not. I challenged melle and therefore I am the enemy.

You “supposedly” agree with all of us, but apparently you feel the need to “challenge” me with whom you say you agree(wink, wink). I read your comments. I just reject the premise that you agree with anything we have to say since instead of challenging Bluegill(whom you both alledge you disagree); you are “challenging” me.

I think both you and GW have a superiority complex. You agree that she should be fired etc., but you want to assure everyone you are not part of the “mob” mentality while all us simple folks are.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Frank Enstine on November 26, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Oh and Frank YOU are the one who ended the debate and yet you still feel the need to address my posts. Apparently I must have challenged YOU since you keep coming back to me.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 5:57 PM

So it’s like the Marines urinating on the dead terrorists. They’re dead, what harm is a little urine after that? Should they be facing the UCMJ now, or should people just laugh and let it go?

They won’t answer this and even if they do-youu are coming from a different place. Bluegill won’t even admit that what she did was an insult to the military. Apparently because Lindsey said she meant no harm that negates any insult to anyone. If Bluegill can’t even admit what she did was offensive to the military then she won’t grasp the concept of your example.

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 6:00 PM

If the posting of this supposedly horrible photo is such an offensive act, then why isn’t HotAir also guilty of spreading hate and causing pain by posting it here prominently on the main page? By the way, sorry I can’t respond to all of the different points right now. I am in a car and commenting from my phone.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 8:25 PM

If the posting of this supposedly horrible photo is such an offensive act

Again you miss the point..

melle1228 on November 26, 2012 at 8:32 PM

This phony outrage stinks. You are now part of the PC crowd of phony righteous indignation when you ask to hold someone responsible for free speech.

libertarianlunatic on November 26, 2012 at 9:09 PM

The outrage from people on this issue has become comical.

There is no criticism of the Honored Dead.

Things that are almost certainly facts, simply based on the sheer number buried at Arlington:

There are rapists buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
There are murderers buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
There are war criminals buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
There are child molesters buried in Arlington National Cemetery.

Does one become absolved of these crimes because they were killed in a war? There is a difference between respecting the military and worshiping it.

sobincorporated on November 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

sobincorporated on November 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Keep a sharp eye patriot for those pesky military worshipers.

tom daschle concerned on November 27, 2012 at 12:08 AM

If the posting of this supposedly horrible photo is such an offensive act, then why isn’t HotAir also guilty of spreading hate and causing pain by posting it here prominently on the main page? By the way, sorry I can’t respond to all of the different points right now. I am in a car and commenting from my phone.

bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Hang up and drive, you piece of sh**.

M240H on November 27, 2012 at 12:27 AM

sobincorporated on November 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

As member of the military, I can assure you that most of us are utterly uninterested in your worship… or any other opinion you might render. We will, however, be more than dismayed if you behave like a jacka$$ in our cemetery. It’s not that we the living care, or that the dead care, but some dead guy’s Mom might.

Is that so godda**ed hard for some of you knuckleheads to understand?

M240H on November 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

The outrage from people on this issue has become comical.

sobincorporated on November 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

I hope Lindsey would find it as comical as you! I’m pretty sure she does now – what’s your opinion about that?

Anti-Control on November 27, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Is that so godda**ed hard for some of you knuckleheads to understand?

M240H on November 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

Yes, it is that hard for these underdeveloped idiots – “respect” is a 4-letter word as far as they are concerned.

Anti-Control on November 27, 2012 at 3:14 AM

Think twice – act once.

Bernfp on November 27, 2012 at 10:23 AM

M240H on November 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

Precisely. Thank you, M240H.

StoneHeads on November 27, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Things that are almost certainly facts, simply based on the sheer number buried at Arlington:

There are rapists buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
There are murderers buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
There are war criminals buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
There are child molesters buried in Arlington National Cemetery.

sobincorporated on November 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Well, yeah, Teddy Kennedy is buried there. It’s probably not feasible to prevent liberals from joining the military.

No disrespect intended.

malclave on November 27, 2012 at 6:55 PM

If [t]The posting of this supposedly horrible photo is such an offensive act.

then why isn’t HotAir also is not guilty of spreading hate and causing pain by posting it here prominently on the main page ?. Instead, they are exposing the hatred of Lesley Stone.
. . . .
bluegill on November 26, 2012 at 8:25 PM

There. That’s better.

Trochilus on November 27, 2012 at 8:49 PM

Now that she’s got nothing… she’s got nothing to lose… she should go for the gold and yell the ‘N’ word at a Black Panther Rally… and video tape it. Free speech and all that.

I’m sure Holder will find for the offended defendants.
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RalphyBoy on November 28, 2012 at 1:28 PM

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