Life in “the prison of Gaza” and in the air raid shelters of Tel Aviv

posted at 10:26 am on November 21, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

The Daily Beast offers a perspective today that, while not entirely ignored, often gets overwhelmed in the action reports of war and terrorism: life on the streets of both Gaza and Israel.  In two different articles — one reportage and one a straight opinion piece — we get a glimpse of the human costs of the conflict in the region.  While both offer a very limited perspective, they both also offer a human connection for us to the people who have to live their lives on this gridlocked stage.

First, Raphael Magarik found herself in Tel Aviv when the air raid sirens sounded, and discovered the clarity — and the fog — of “living in it”:

Fifteen minutes in a bomb-shelter does not an Israeli make, any more than fifteen minutes of dancing makes you a ballerina (otherwise, I’d be in Batsheva). But having had a taste, what mostly strikes me is the usefulness of detachment: the ways in fear and threat sap your ability to reason critically.

In part, that’s just because helplessness breeds false knowledge. We all suddenly become, as Ami Kaufman says, “ballistic experts,” speculating about which buildings will be hit first—because it’s unacceptably frightening to admit you don’t know. We notice the extra green uniforms on the bus to Jerusalem, and we wonder if it’s the normal pre-Shabbat surge, or if this signals reserves being called up. We listen to Galei Tzahal (army radio), because even though they’re independent of the army’s combat wing, as an Israeli teacher said to me, “well, you know”—maybe they get leaked extra tidbits. The contexts that actually cause rockets to fall and bombs to drop (politics in Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, and Egypt; a mishmash of armies, terrorists, and “security forces”) are so enormous they dwarf the individual. Reasserting your own knowledge—that you can draw conclusions from what you see and hear, that you have some agency—probably keeps you sane. …

I am thinking now of the horrible and ubiquitous Kadima billboard ad I saw Thursday morning, featuring the line, “Bibi will entangle us” and a brilliant red mushroom cloud. Now, I agree that Bibi’s Iran policy is foolish and dangerous, and that there’s what to be terrified of, and still—the mind reels at the chutzpah. On a day when little girls (and callow Americans) are terrified by rockets, it’s worth noting that there are politicians waiting to exploit that terror. It’s worth thinking about how negotiating their own physical and psychological safeties can make it harder for Israelis to see the more impersonal, more cynical political stories behind the sirens. It’s worth remembering that “living in it” isn’t always the best preparation for “making sense of it,” and that American Jews’ safety, comfort, and detachment doesn’t disqualify their analyses: sometimes, it helps us see more clearly.

Sarah Topol takes a somewhat more reportorial approach in “The Gaza Prison,” giving us the perspective of two young people in Gaza.  One, a young man who studied airport management in a territory with no airport, despairs of ever leaving Gaza, even though he dreams of meeting “flawless” Spanish women.  The other, a young woman, travels frequently to Egypt and relishes her experiences.  Wonder what the difference is between the two?

The two men blame both Israeli and Hamas for the deteriorating state of life in Gaza. Their families are Fatah supporters, the rival Palestinian faction that controls the West Bank, a place they are also barred from visiting. …

Yazouri is against normalization of relations with Israel. She is a strong advocate of what she calls the armed resistance movement. She says she has no problem with Israeli citizens, but doesn’t acknowledge their government or state.

People can travel out of Gaza, as long as they get a visa from the country they wish to visit, and get permission from Egypt and Hamas.  Although Topol doesn’t mention it, it sounds as if travel is accessible as long as the traveler supports Hamas and not Fatah.  That’s one way of forcing people to support the cause of those who hold power, and it calls into question just who is the jailer in the Gaza prison.

That doesn’t mean that the dangers of producing a generation of despair aren’t real, however:

Manshawi is in a similar boat. He studied airport management at the Gaza Community College, though the strip has no functioning airport. The irony, he assured the Daily Beast, wasn’t lost on him. The last time he traveled abroad was in 1996. He was 11. At 27, he is unemployed, with little hope of finding work.

Instead, Manshawi and Farra do the kinds of things most single young men do: they watch TV, they hang out with friends, and they crack jokes constantly. Though life has lately improved somewhat for the middle class in Gaza—there are now functioning coffee shops and small shopping malls—living in the strip is living in a different kind of prison, the kind that jails the mind.

More than 1.7 million people live in Gaza, an area slightly more than twice the size of Washington, D.C. Nearly 44 percent are under the age of 14. And while the literacy rate is high, 92 percent, the unemployment rate hovers around 30 percent of the population according to a May 2012 IMF report.

 As long as that generation clings to an eliminationist political stance, though, there doesn’t seem to be a path out of the impasse:

“Israel has to recognize and admit that Palestine is our land and not their land. Blood has to stop flowing, and then we can accept Israeli people as any human. I’m not against the humanity of Israelis, I’m against their acts,” she says.

Note that she’s not qualifying that to “Gaza and the West Bank.” She wants an Israeli surrender, not a two-state solution. If that’s the next generation of Palestinian leadership, then we’re not likely to see any real change in the next few decades.


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Lord help us.

we are in the end times…..

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Israel has to recognize and admit that Palestine is our land and not their land.

but, it’s not….

*sorry*

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 10:36 AM

And so it goes, nothing once again, will change…

Israel, you are gonna have to fight for the rest of your lives in order to stay alive and maintain your state…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Note that she’s not qualifying that to “Gaza and the West Bank.” She wants an Israeli surrender, not a two-state solution. If that’s the next generation of Palestinian leadership, then we’re not likely to see any real change in the next few decades.

Your sanctimony is grotesque. Enjoy your turkey stuffed full of self-righteousness, Ed.

lostmotherland on November 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Conservatism as we know is dying…

Republicanism is dying…

Israel, I pray for you, but without Gods’ intervention, I feel you are all alone in this…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Blood has to stop flowing, and then we can accept Israeli people as any human. I’m not against the humanity of Israelis, I’m against their acts,

does anyone see the logical disconnect in this statement?

It is at first a conditional statement that, once violence stops, then Israelis can be human. Then the person contradicts herself by saying that she’s not against the humanity of Israelis.

huh?

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Manshawi is in a similar boat. He studied airport management at the Gaza Community College, though the strip has no functioning airport. The irony, he assured the Daily Beast, wasn’t lost on him. The last time he traveled abroad was in 1996. He was 11. At 27, he is unemployed, with little hope of finding work.

Sounds like American college graduates with degrees in Sociology, Wymyns Stydyz, and Hip-Hop Music. No Starbucks in Gaza?

slickwillie2001 on November 21, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Lord help us.
we are in the end times…..
ted c on November 21, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Uh, no.

Mt. 23:36, Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mt. 24:34, Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Rev. 1:1, The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass.
Rev. 22:7, Behold, I come quickly.

Dan. 12:4, But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end.

Rev. 22:10, And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Note that she’s not qualifying that to “Gaza and the West Bank.” She wants an Israeli surrender, not a two-state solution. If that’s the next generation of Palestinian leadership, then we’re not likely to see any real change in the next few decades.

Your sanctimony is grotesque. Enjoy your turkey stuffed full of self-righteousness, Ed.

lostmotherland on November 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM

If Ed is to sanctimonious and self-righteous for you, then please, by all means, find another blog to annoy.

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 10:44 AM

huh?

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Logic and Islam can not coexist as they are contradictory in nature.

HotAirian on November 21, 2012 at 10:45 AM

This kind of gives new meaning to that famous quote: “Eyeless in Gaza, at the mill with slaves.”

TXUS on November 21, 2012 at 10:50 AM

About the time the Palestinians were becoming refugees, another group halfway around the world were fleeing their homeland. Both groups received billions in aid and- to this day- both groups dream of returning to their homeland under a government more to their liking. The difference is, the Chinese who fled to Taiwan did not wallow in despair and hate. They took the aid given, built up an economic powerhouse and train their kids in business and technology, not Jihad and bomb-making.

Two groups; two cultures. One chose wisely; the other chose poorly.

michaelo on November 21, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Israel and the Jew are Gods’ chosen people, what about this is it that the Islamists fail to note?

Are they testing Gods resolve?

Is this yet again a time for testing for those of the Jewish faith?

I recollect how God gave victory to the Jews over their arch enemy Haman, who wanted to have them all destroyed from the earth. However the day for executing the previous decree still came upon the Jews, but at the requests of Esther and Mordecai, they were allowed to defend themselves against their enemies.

So, what happens, instead of the Jews being destroyed, it was those who dared stand against them that were destroyed on this fateful day. No one could lay hands upon them as fear of them fell upon all the people. Mordecai became more prominent and his fame spread throughout all the provinces. The Jews killed five hundred men in the citadel, including Haman’s ten sons, and seventy five thousand in all were destroyed by the Jews throughout the land.

The Jews finally had rest from their enemies, and their sorrow turned to joy. What a turnaround! From doom and gloom to victory and glory.

It can happen again…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Your sanctimony is grotesque. Enjoy your turkey stuffed full of self-righteousness, Ed.

lostmotherland on November 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM

LOL! A leftist calling someone else sanctimonious. You’re funny.

Night Owl on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Now, I agree that Bibi’s Iran policy is foolish and dangerous, and that there’s what to be terrified of, and still—the mind reels at the chutzpah.

Raphael Magarik does realize, does she not, that the rockets she’s hiding from were manufactured in Iran and given to Hamas for the sole purpose of killing her and those little girls around her?

Through that lens, “Bibi”s beliefs and acts seem reasoned and clear.

Note that she’s not qualifying that to “Gaza and the West Bank.” She wants an Israeli surrender, not a two-state solution. If that’s the next generation of Palestinian leadership, then we’re not likely to see any real change in the next few decades.

The Isrealis did indeed take the land of her ancestors. In the West Bank, settlers are still chopping down century old olive orchards owned by their Palestinian neighbors in an attempt to drive them away. The village of Imwas is still Canada Park, to the ultimate shame of Canadian Jewry. I would expect that the two state solution she wants in her heart is similar to that which the Native Americans have here — the ability to buy and build their “reservations” anywhere in Israel.

She doesn’t realize that Hamas is leading her away, and not toward, that future — which can only happen when both sides admit to the humanity and right to life of each other.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Given what’s been going on since 1948, the UN should pass a resolution that all “Palestinians” should have the word STUPID tattooed on their foreheads. All the Aid money thrown at them all these years………and they’ve accomplished what?

GarandFan on November 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Gaza this and Hamas that………BiBi lost and the Jews don’t care about the future of Israel, so why do we care again?
.

Benghazi, Benghazi, Wherefore art thou , Ben Ghazi ?

Keep moving along.

FlaMurph on November 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Gaza is some of the most beautiful land around with a huge beachfront that would be a resort destination if it weren’t for the arabs having turned it into a sh#thole and placing it permanently at war with Israel. They were given autonomy in 2005 (stupicly, I might add, as you NEVER give arabs a gift without requiring something very serious and concrete in return – NEVER) and have done nothing but try to commit Suicide by Israel ever since. Eventually, Israel will have to oblige.

Israel’s best bet, now (since Israel isn’t willing to do what’s necessary to stop gaza from being the threat that it demands to be) is to clear a 30 mile buffer zone out of gaza and annex it to Israel. Land gone. End of story. If the idiots in gaza persist to make threats of themselves, then Israel needs to clear and annex more land.

Arabs only understand losing stuff – losing land. And not to be negotiated for. But to lose … forever. Arabs don’t care about losing lives. Life is cheap in the arab world – cheaper than any individualistic Westerner could imagine. Israel’s biggest mistakes have been negotiating in good faith with arabs to return land that was lost in the arabs’ offensive wars. That is the worst thing you can do with arabs and only eggs them on to future warring – as Israel has had to fight the same exact war every ten years since the State’s inception, like clockwork. Israel never shoudl have given Sinai back, should have kept the Suez and should have just kicked the arabs out of gaza and the West bank (just as the Kuwaitis summarily kicked 400,000 palis out of Kuwait after the first Gulf War, which no one cared about).

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on November 21, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Although Topol doesn’t mention it, it sounds as if travel is accessible as long as the traveler supports Hamas and not Fatah. That’s one way of forcing people to support the cause of those who hold power, and it calls into question just who is the jailer in the Gaza prison.

Uh, yeah. These are the people who go flying off tall buildings and who get assassinated during conflicts like this and their murders blamed on Israelis or they are falsely accused of spying for Israel and get killed.

Blake on November 21, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Israel and the Jew are Gods’ chosen people
Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Can anyone get to heaven without faith in Christ for the past 2,000 years?

Moses said:
Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ -Exodus 19:5-6

Peter said:
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. -1 Peter 2:9

Paul said:
Circumcision is nothing. -1 Cor. 7:19

Please make sense of these passages for us, in light of your assertion. God forbid that poor theology would prompt anyone to do anything affecting the lives of millions of people.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Tell you what, that vid from Tel Aviv of the Iron Dome missile streaking up to intercept the incoming rocket while the air raid sirens wail in the background is spoooooooky.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 11:00 AM

There never has been a palastine. How can they get back something that never was?

LaughterJones on November 21, 2012 at 11:01 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Yep. We’ve been in the “end times” for almost 2,000 years.

Do you know of a good New Preterit site that breaks things down?

davidk on November 21, 2012 at 11:02 AM

People can travel out of Gaza, as long as they get a visa from the country they wish to visit, and get permission from Egypt and Hamas. Although Topol doesn’t mention it, it sounds as if travel is accessible as long as the traveler supports Hamas

Well class, let’s review. The violence begins with Hamas. Hamas is an organization whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel as its reason for existing. If Israel is destroyed, Hamas has no reason to continue to exist. Hamas exists only for the purpose of killing Jews. So tell us again, exactly WHO is creating “the prison of Gaza”?

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Israel and the Jew are Gods’ chosen people
Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Can anyone get to heaven without faith in Christ for the past 2,000 years?
akzed

I think that you might be misunderstanding what it means to be God’s chosen people. What it doesn’t mean is that he chose them “to go to Heaven.” He wants that, but it means that the Jews were chosen to be the people through whom He would send us a Savior from the line of David.–Jesus Christ.

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 11:04 AM

About the time the Palestinians were becoming refugees, another group halfway around the world were fleeing their homeland. Both groups received billions in aid and- to this day- both groups dream of returning to their homeland under a government more to their liking. The difference is, the Chinese who fled to Taiwan did not wallow in despair and hate. They took the aid given, built up an economic powerhouse and train their kids in business and technology, not Jihad and bomb-making.

Two groups; two cultures. One chose wisely; the other chose poorly.

michaelo on November 21, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Excellent contrast.

davidk on November 21, 2012 at 11:04 AM

They get millions to improve their infrastructure and it all goes into their private swiss bank accounts.

Blake on November 21, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Tell you what, that vid from Tel Aviv of the Iron Dome missile streaking up to intercept the incoming rocket while the air raid sirens wail in the background is spoooooooky.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 11:00 AM

it is! Reminds me of CNN back in 1991 in Tel Aviv when Patriot Missile batteries were used to intercept Scuds fired from Iraq occasionally. Only this time, there are multiple inbounds fired from right down the street and there is no time to take much cover.

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 11:06 AM

where’s Obama? Shouldn’t he be leading or something? Last I saw he was wearing an incredible silk shirt while the Media drooled.

Slade73 on November 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM

The Isrealis did indeed take the land of her ancestors.
unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

A little history might be in order here unclesmrgol. Her ancestors murdered the Israeli’s that lived there and planted those Olive trees. Her ancestors arrived during the brutal reign and occupation of Israel after Saladin conquered Jerusalem and the Ottoman Empire was formed.

If I steal your car, that doesn’t make your car mine, no matter how long I manage to keep a hold of it. Unlike America, for example where the Native Americans never developed the concept of land ownership, ancient Israel was a society that had a very clearly defined sense of land ownership with documentation and land boundaries.

The Islamic hordes invaded Israel, killed a very significant percentage of the population and drove off another very significant percentage of the Jewish population, but what they did not do is drive out or kill all of the Jews.

The Israeli’s are not stealing her ancestral homelands, they are reclaiming their own stolen property.

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 10:58 AM

.
Lets see you rip on the Mooslums like that, tough guy.

Go tell them their Allah is just like Santy Claus.
Didn’t think so.

It must be, some Prophets are more equal than others.

FlaMurph on November 21, 2012 at 11:10 AM

It can happen again…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, while the Old Covenant is still in place, God has broadened the number of the Chosen to those who believe in Him. That is part and parcel of Christianity — and there are many Palestinian Christians.

There is no sign of God at all in this conflict — it is a conflict between two sets of takers.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Yep. We’ve been in the “end times” for almost 2,000 years. Do you know of a good New Preterit site that breaks things down? davidk on November 21, 2012 at 11:02 AM

The “end times” was the space between Pentecost and AD 70 when Jerusalem was sacked, according to the prophecies of Mt 23, Mark 13, Luke 21, and much of Rev. We are not in the end times now.

In Rev. 22:7, “Behold, I come quickly,” the word eggus translated quickly means soon, or shortly. Jesus returned at the head of the Roman legions and destroyed his old wife -Jerusalem- for adultery and now has a new bride, the Church.

I don’t endorse Preterism per se because some adherents do not believe in certain cardinal doctrines of the faith. Postmillenialism is what I call myself when I need to call myself something in this regard, and it was around a long time before anyone was calling himself a Preterist.

Here’s a good book, the best commentary on Revelation I’m familiar with.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:12 AM

He wants that, but it means that the Jews were chosen to be the people through whom He would send us a Savior from the line of David.–Jesus Christ.

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 11:04 AM

To get to that reading, you have to discard the Old Covenant.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 11:12 AM

I think that you might be misunderstanding what it means to be God’s chosen people. What it doesn’t mean is that he chose them “to go to Heaven.” He wants that, but it means that the Jews were chosen to be the people through whom He would send us a Savior from the line of David.–Jesus Christ. ted c on November 21, 2012 at 11:04 AM

The continuity between covenants is that thousands of Jews entered the Church with thousands of gentiles, and any distinction between the tow is now moot. Read Galatians.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Move the people in Gaza to Egypt. That will create a better buffer zone for Israel. Israel should have never given up the Sinai.

Oil Can on November 21, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Eye for an eye time.
I suggest taking out a few crowded mosques – and screw the PR backlash – give the UN the bird and tell them to stuff it.

dentarthurdent on November 21, 2012 at 11:15 AM

To get to that reading, you have to discard the Old Covenant.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 11:12 AM

You mean the one the Jews broke until God Himself was so exasperated he let their nation be overrun and their people dispersed?

MelonCollie on November 21, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Lets see you rip on the Mooslums like that, tough guy.
Go tell them their Allah is just like Santy Claus. Didn’t think so.
It must be, some Prophets are more equal than others.
FlaMurph on November 21, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Uh, I’m critical of Islam quite a bit herein genius. You must be new.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:16 AM

There has never been a “Palestinian” people. A fraudulent creation for the continual battle and eventual obliteration of the Jewish people.

They are Arabs, just like their brethren.

electricfunksandwich on November 21, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I think that you might be misunderstanding what it means to be God’s chosen people. What it doesn’t mean is that he chose them “to go to Heaven.” He wants that, but it means that the Jews were chosen to be the people through whom He would send us a Savior from the line of David.–Jesus Christ.

TeD C; we know what our bible says, we understand the ‘gift’ that God gave all of humanity…

But it is deeper than that.

I don’t know if the jewish faith believes in heaven or not? I haven’t studied it that well.

I based my thoughts on what had happened in the biblical past.

It begs the question, why did those of the jewish faith reject Christ and his teachings and still await their saviour?

God, so many times, gave and took from his ‘people’… why?

I am not an expert no ways on the whys and wherefores of what the Bible teaches and shows us as the history of judeaism…

I mostly have questions :-)

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:17 AM

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Huh, because Paul said “Circumcision is nothing,” so I wonder where in the NT you get that.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:18 AM

On my next sailing voyage, I plan to circumcise around the world.

electricfunksandwich on November 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM

where’s Obama? Shouldn’t he be leading or something?

Slade73 on November 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM

“Something” has worked for the rat-eared wonder for almost four years. Why stop now?

Happy Nomad on November 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM

God, so many times, gave and took from his ‘people’… why?
Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM

On my next sailing voyage, I plan to circumcise around the world.

electricfunksandwich on November 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM

So it’s going to be a rather Brisk voyage eh?

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 11:21 AM

which can only happen when both sides admit to the humanity and right to life of each other.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Islam is a potent filter/block to “humanity”. There is no “both” that share anything to be agreed upon, it cannot be resolved, either Islam or Israel has to go. I vote the ideology of Islam off the island.

BL@KBIRD on November 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM

On my next sailing voyage, I plan to circumcise around the world.

electricfunksandwich on November 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Make sure you have a lot of tip money handy….

dentarthurdent on November 21, 2012 at 11:25 AM

On my next sailing voyage, I plan to circumcise around the world.

electricfunksandwich on November 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM

I would say you have your work cut off, er, cut out for you.

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 11:26 AM

For sure there are now many ‘chosen’ ones, but WE chose!!

We are given the free will to chose Christ or not…

Perhaps my religious upbringing plays a part in my understanding of the biblical jew, according to all I have read and understand, they are Gods People… and who am I to say otherwise…

Hasn’t the disobedience of the Jews invalidated God’s promises to them some would ask?

In the words of the apostle Paul, “May it never be!” (Romans 11:1).

In Jeremiah 31:36 God says the Jewish people will continue to be “a nation before Me forever.”

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:28 AM

which can only happen when both sides admit to the humanity and right to life of each other. unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Oh c’mon, both?

A Muslim woman who was badly burned and treated for her burns in an Israeli hospital, treatment she would never have otherwise gotten, got caught some months later with a bomb strapped to herself, heading into Israel to blow people up.

That’s what we’re dealing with. Please meditate on this story to see if you can determine if both sides really need to discover the concept of humanity, or just one.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Why? You ask… I think a reading of Job may explain things…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:31 AM

which can only happen when both sides admit to the humanity and right to life of each other.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

As I’ve noted elsewhere on this site, Hamas is an organization whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel as its reason for existing. Hamas WILL NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE THE JEWS RIGHT TO LIVE.

Get used to it.

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 11:31 AM

In Jeremiah 31:36 God says the Jewish people will continue to be “a nation before Me forever.” Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Christians are now Israel. This concept was universally understood until Anabaptists in the early 19th Century began teaching otherwise. C.I. Scofield plagiarized them in his infamous notes, and the horse was out of the barn.

Your position is novel, and held by only a small minority of Christians, and was completely unheard of before around 1820.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

The ancestral home of muslem Arabs, is Saudi Arabia.

Plenty of room still there, as in Egypt, Jordan (which they have a right to in the partition agreement), or any other muslem Arab nation.

If these so-called “Palestinians” are in a jail, it’s a jail built by their fellow Arab muslems.

Rebar on November 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Why? You ask… I think a reading of Job may explain things…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Click the link! You asked “why,” I supplied the answer.

Good golly.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:35 AM

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

That is a given.

We are also to understand the biblical prophecy has ceased…

1 Corinthians 13:8 – 14:5

“Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love”.

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Sorry missed the linky :-)

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Akzed Thank you…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:39 AM

HotAir: You should link to the article that Ariel Sharon’s son wrote about levelling a neighborhood in Gaza to make a point.

It has the left going suitably nuts.

CorporatePiggy on November 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM

which can only happen when both sides admit to the humanity and right to life of each other.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Oh c’mon, both?

A Muslim woman who was badly burned and treated for her burns in an Israeli hospital, treatment she would never have otherwise gotten, got caught some months later with a bomb strapped to herself, heading into Israel to blow people up.

That’s what we’re dealing with. Please meditate on this story to see if you can determine if both sides really need to discover the concept of humanity, or just one.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Even now, ‘palestinians’ that are injured when of their own rockets blows up prematurely or goes off-course, or are injured by an Israeli counterattack, are being admitted to Israel on ambulances to be treated in Israeli hospitals.

slickwillie2001 on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Yes I know, there are those who do not hold with this biblical view.

In Jeremiah 31:36 God says the Jewish people will continue to be “a nation before Me forever.”

So, even tho it is written, it is not believed but by a minority?

If it is in the bible is it not true?

And so here we go round with what one religion teaches against another…

Religion in my small humble opinion, kills more than it has saved.

I do not hold with any one religion.

I have faith and I believe… I don’t need one ‘church’ over another to tell me what the bible says or doesn’t say…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Akzed Thank you… Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Sawright…

Here’s a clue to understanding Revelation: when you see the word “earth,” understand it as “land,” in other words, The Land, the covenant geography, Canaan, Israel.

Also, given that God often described his people as a “harlot” in the OT due to idolatry (spiritual adultery), and that Babylon was the chief worldly enemy of His people in the OT, who is the Wh0re of Babylon in Rev. 17?

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

The Bible, like any other book, is subject to interpretation. In fact, it must be interpreted rightly to be rightly understood.

The minority opinion to which I referred was the belief that the Jews remain the chosen people of God, whereas the Bible in the New Testament teaches that the promises God made to Israel were fulfilled in Christ, and therefore there is now neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female etc. But I guess you know better than I.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:46 AM

who is the Wh0re of Babylon in Rev. 17?

From a geographic sense Babylon was an Akkadian city-state of ancient Mesopotamia, the remains of which are found in present-day Al Hillah, Babylon Province, Iraq, south of Baghdad.

So Arabs… is the answer…

By whose word am I to believe that ‘earth’ only means ‘land’ and only means Caanan and Israel?

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

No, I am not better than you, and you not better than I.

So, this scripture means nothing?

In the words of the apostle Paul, “May it never be!” (Romans 11:1).

In Jeremiah 31:36 God says the Jewish people will continue to be “a nation before Me forever.”

Do you or I know better than God and His meaning?

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:56 AM

You are however correct in that it is based on ‘someones’ interpretation…

Is your interpreter better than mine?

Is your religion better than mine?

Whose is better than anyone elses?

If God puts it in ones heart to believe in our Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour… what else is there to know?

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 12:00 PM

who is the Wh0re of Babylon in Rev. 17?

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 11:46 AM

A question far easily asked than answered.

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Lol so now I am commenting to myself… I will check back later.

Bye for now!! It’s been enlightening :-)

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

I took a stab at it :-)…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

I took a stab at it :-)…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM

You are a braver soul than I Gunga Din… ;)

SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 12:04 PM

“Israel has to recognize and admit that Palestine is our land and not their land. Blood has to stop flowing, and then we can accept Israeli people as any human. I’m not against the humanity of Israelis, I’m against their acts,” she says.

Those acts would include, but are not limited to:

1. Being Jewish

2. Not being Muslim

3. Living anywhere near a Muslim. “Near” is defined as planet Earth.

RadClown on November 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM

A question far easily asked than answered.
SWalker on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

God repeatedly refers to Israel and Judah as “harlots.”

Isaiah 1:21, “How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.”

Jeremiah 2:20, “For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.”

Jeremiah 3:1, “They say, ‘If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted?’ But thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.”

Obviously this is spiritual imagery, harlotry being a metaphor for chasing after other gods, spiritual adultery.

Also, Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and led the Jews captive for 70 years. There they developed the “traditions of men” Jesus condemned. So the Whore of Babylon is 1st Century Jerusalem, whose destruction in AD 70 is prophesied in the synoptic gospels and Revelation.

Theories about the reestablishment of modern Israel being predicted in the Bible are hogwash. The Church is now Israel, period.

None of this is meant to mitigate anyone’s support for the modern Jewish state at all. My point is that novel, poor theology should not be the basis for geopolitics. One needn’t refer to the Bible at all to be a supporter of civilized people against savages.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

More than 1.7 million people live in Gaza, an area slightly more than twice the size of Washington, D.C.

Population density in Gaza Strip: 9,713 per sq mi
Population density in DC: 10,065 per sq mi

Their point?

Phoenician on November 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Hong Kong is packed in tight too, and it has rather a high standard of living. Probably because they aren’t bound to an evil 7th Century death cult, I dunno.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

Population density in Gaza Strip: 9,713 per sq mi
Population density in Gaza Strip: 9,713 per sq m

Phoenician on November 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Population density in Tel Aviv: 20,604 per sq m

Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Theories about the reestablishment of modern Israel being predicted in the Bible are hogwash. The Church is now Israel, period.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

lulz from Jerusalem, the eternal Capital city of the Nation of Israel.

lulz!

Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 12:48 PM

the ways in fear and threat sap your ability to reason critically.

And construct a sentence correctly, apparently.

cptacek on November 21, 2012 at 12:48 PM

lulz from Jerusalem, the eternal Capital city of the Nation of Israel. lulz! Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 12:48 PM

Except for when it wasn’t for 2,000 years.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM

‘Note that she’s not qualifying that to “Gaza and the West Bank.” She wants an Israeli surrender, not a two-state solution. If that’s the next generation of Palestinian leadership, then we’re not likely to see any real change in the next few decades. ‘

Your sanctimony is grotesque. Enjoy your turkey stuffed full of self-righteousness, Ed.

lostmotherland on November 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Your imbecility is grotesque, really.

jimver on November 21, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Except for when it wasn’t for 2,000 years.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM

And 2500 years ago.

It has nothing to do with your jesus.

Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Gaza this and Hamas that………BiBi lost and the Jews don’t care about the future of Israel, so why do we care again?
.

Benghazi, Benghazi, Wherefore art thou , Ben Ghazi ?

Keep moving along.

FlaMurph on November 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I disagree. The American Jews are American citizens first, most of them born and raised here, so I wouldn’t neessarily expect a lot of loyalty and dedication to the Israelis’ cause from them, to begin with. if they cared about the Israel statehood and all, they’d be there, but obviously they chose not to. personally I can’t blame them, a lot of them want immediate security for them and their families, which they can’t get there. So, to say that the Jews don’t care about the future of Israel is an incorrect statement, the American Jews might not care indeed, the Jews in Israel (which are the ones that matter, since they live there) do. I don’t ge your cynicism on the matter. Gaza is as important as Benghazi in mnay ways, the same factors and forces ( extremism, terrorism, 7th century cult, fanatic geoups, war by proxies, etc) are in play, you think that if you single put particular events and situations (Benghazi) and isolate them from the rest you would have some sort of a resolution to the insanity that is the Middle East (and that’s spreading, unfortunately).
East.

jimver on November 21, 2012 at 1:15 PM

If that’s the next generation everlasting sentiment of Palestinian leadership, then we’re not likely to see any real change in the next few decades ever until one side completely humiliates and militarily annihilates the other.

FIFM

ShainS on November 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

You are a far more advanced biblical scholar than I…

My opinion is, that since God had tried and tested the jews time and time again, He didn’t forsake them, he let them suffer untold sufferings, but as far as I am concerned, according to the bible, they are and always will be His people.

We are also His people who believe and ask…

So prophecy in the OT is to be negated? Cool, I never knew :-)

The Land of Canaan, renamed Israel by the Lord, was given by God to Abraham and his descendants as an everlasting possession.

In Genesis 12:7, “The Lord appeared to Abram and said, ‘To your descendants I will give this land.’”

In Genesis 13:15, He repeated His promise when He said, “for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever.” He said the same thing in Genesis 15:18, “To your descendants I have given this land.”

The gift of this Land to Abraham and his descendants was based on an unconditional covenant from God Himself.

Genesis 17:7-8 states: “And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojourning, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

The sign of that covenant for Abraham and his descendants was circumcision. Twice in this passage, God mentions the everlasting nature of this covenant. There are some today who say that this covenant was conditional, that it was based on Israel’s faithfulness to God. The Bible teaches otherwise.

In Psalm 89:30-37, “If his sons forsake My law, and do not walk in My judgments, if they violate My statues, and do not keep My commandments, then I will visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. But I will not break off My loving kindness from him, nor deal falsely in My faithfulness. My covenant I will not violate, nor will I alter the utterance of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David. His descendants shall endure forever like the moon, and the witness in the sky is faithful.”

Jeremiah 31:35-36 declares: “This is what the Lord says, ‘He who appoints the sun to shine by day, Who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar — the Lord Almighty is His Name; Only if these ordinances vanish from My sight,’ declares the Lord, ‘will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me.’”

The Land was given to Abraham and his descendants as part of God’s redemptive blessing to the world.

In Genesis 12:1-3, “The Lord has said to Abram, ‘Leave your country, your people and your father’s household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse; and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

This land was not given to the descendants of Ishmael (one ancestor of the Arab peoples), but rather to the descendants of Isaac.

Abraham himself considered Ishmael as a possible descendant to whom God would give this land. In Genesis 17:18, Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before Thee.” But God’s answer was, and is, very clear. In Genesis 17:19, God answered Abraham, “No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.”

God promised to bless Ishmael and to make him a great nation: “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation” (Genesis 17:20). However, the bloodline of the covenant promise concerning the Land would go through Isaac, not Ishmael: “…In Isaac your descendants shall be called” (Hebrews 11:18).

Israel’s sin and subsequent exile from the Land did not change their divine right to this Land given to them by the Lord in covenant.

In Leviticus 26:40-45, we read that God would punish Israel for its disobedience and send them into captivity. But, according to verses 44-45, God will bring them back:

“Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the Lord.”

In Deuteronomy 30:3-5, God promises: “Then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. And the Lord; your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.”

Amos 9:14-15 thunders forth these remarkable words: “‘Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, and they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, and make gardens and eat their fruit. I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them,’ says the Lord your God.”

Amos speaks of a return to their ancient homeland, Israel, once and for all, when he says, “‘. and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them,’ says the Lord your God” (Amos 9:15).

Twenty-five hundred years ago, the prophet Ezekiel spoke of the restoration of Israel to its land in the last days. Ezekiel spoke of dry bones coming to life. Never before in history has a nation been destroyed and scattered all over the world, and then been brought back to life. It is a miracle and a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Read in Ezekiel 37:11-12:

“Then He said to me, ‘Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ Therefore prophesy, and say to them, ‘thus says the Lord God, Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of ISRAEL.’”

The name of that land is ISRAEL, the land that so often is called the “land of Canaan” in the Bible. God says that in the last days it will be called ISRAEL.

The stranger (those outside the Covenant) will live among you and be treated with respect.

“They (God’s covenant people) will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated: they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations. The stranger will shepherd your flock; foreigners will work your fields and vineyards” (Isaiah 61:4,5). “If you (Israel) really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave to your forefathers for ever and ever” (Jeremiah 7:5-7).

The prophet Isaiah spoke of God’s plan to bring His people back to Israel, saying: “He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel, He will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth” (Isaiah 11:12).
The prophet Isaiah of Israel said: “Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. Surely the islands look to me; in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, bringing your sons from afar, with their silver and gold, to the honor of the Lord your God. Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings will serve you. Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations. For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined” (Isaiah 60:1,9-12).

In Romans 11:11-14, Paul teaches Christians that we are grafted into the olive tree, which are the covenants, promises and hopes of Israel. We do not hold up the tree, but it holds us up, so we should not boast against His people, Israel. In verse 28, he tells us that they are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs. Without the faithfulness of the Jewish people in Israel, we would not have our example, our Bible, our Yeshua or our salvation. Therefore, he concludes that “by our mercy, they will receive [God's] mercy.” (Romans 11:31).

Paul teaches Christians that we have a debt to pay to the Jewish people, by blessing them in tangible ways.

Romans 15:27 clearly states: “For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.” How much more direct can God be regarding our Christian relationship to Israel and the Jewish people.

Christian commitment to Israel was penned by the Psalmist so long ago in Psalm 102:13: “You will arise and have compassion on Zion, for it is time to show favor to her; the appointed time has come.”

Again the Psalmist exhorts us: “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; may they prosper who love you. May peace be within your walls, and prosperity within your palaces. For the sake of my brothers and my friends, I will now say, ‘May peace be within you.’ For the sake of the house of the Lord our God, I will seek your good” (Psalm 122; 6-9).

Ok That’s all from me Akzed…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Peace can not be achieved until a certain ‘nation’ “unelects” their terroristic construct of a government, can it?

joeeddie on November 21, 2012 at 1:53 PM

And 2500 years ago. It has nothing to do with your jesus.
Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Of course it does, not that I expect you to believe it.

I’m not hostile to you or Israel. Christians believe certain things just as Jews do, which are not shared by other faiths. Chill.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 2:03 PM

More than 1.7 million people live in Gaza, an area slightly more than twice the size of Washington, D.C.

Population density in Gaza Strip: 9,713 per sq mi
Population density in DC: 10,065 per sq mi

Their point?

Phoenician on November 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Hong Kong is packed in tight too, and it has rather a high standard of living. Probably because they aren’t bound to an evil 7th Century death cult, I dunno.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

Another comparison, Singapore, pop. 5.3m, area 274 sq. miles, density 19,340 per sq. mile.

slickwillie2001 on November 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 1:33 PM

The return from captivity and restoration of the city occurred under Nehemiah. You should read his book.

From Matthew 23 & 24
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
~

The destruction of the city is prophesied, and it happened in AD 70. Look it up. Everything else prophesied above is described as it happened in the Acts of the Apostles. Luke 21 goes into detail about the siege ramps the Romans built, Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, etc.

This is not a fringe position, you just don’t get out much.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 2:11 PM

People can travel out of Gaza, as long as they get a visa from the country they wish to visit, and get permission from Egypt and Hamas. Although Topol doesn’t mention it, it sounds as if travel is accessible as long as the traveler supports Hamas and not Fatah

Israel occupies the West Bank and controls the borders sea and airspace of Gaza.Israel will not allow Gazans to go to the West Bank.
The U.S has stopped scholarships because of this.
http://www.boston.com/travel/destinations/2012/10/15/drops-gaza-scholarships-after-israel-travel-ban/hovEBmpkweZWO31ns2beoK/story.html

The civilian airport was destroyed by Israel in 2001 which makes travel difficult.
They can travel more to Egypt because they have lifted restrictions following Mubarak.

mags on November 21, 2012 at 3:07 PM

mags on November 21, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Bad behavior has consequences.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 3:37 PM

where’s Obama? Shouldn’t he be leading or something? Last I saw he was wearing an incredible silk shirt while the Media drooled.

Slade73 on November 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM

But wasn’t he just dreamy?! That shirt was so-o-o kewl.

The preezy of the united steezy! Indeed!

//

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Theories about the reestablishment of modern Israel being predicted in the Bible are hogwash. The Church is now Israel, period.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Don’t be silly.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Will you tell Israel then if they invade,occupy,blockade,collectively
punish, bombard by land sea and air with weapons from the modern battlefield on a densely populated area with no army/navy/air force,no air defence,no tanks, artillery units ,no mechanized armour,no command and control and call this a war,then don’t be surprised if there is consequences.

mags on November 21, 2012 at 6:01 PM

Don’t be silly.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 5:44 PM

“Silly” is an understatement by ten orders of magnitude for this wanna-be scholar and his fruitcake theories.

MelonCollie on November 21, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 2:11 PM

This is not a fringe position, you just don’t get out much.

Nice retort, is that all you have?…

So, only what you quote from the bible has any significance cuz apparently I don’t get out much eh?

As I understand it, prophecy and what the apostles told us is of paramount importance…

Hindsight historically and foresight all important to our understanding, is it not?

Oh well, have at it, obviously the below verses mean nothing…

In Romans 11:11-14, Paul teaches Christians that we are grafted into the olive tree, which are the covenants, promises and hopes of Israel. We do not hold up the tree, but it holds us up, so we should not boast against His people, Israel. In verse 28, he tells us that they are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs. Without the faithfulness of the Jewish people in Israel, we would not have our example, our Bible, our Yeshua Jesus or our salvation. Therefore, he concludes that “by our mercy, they will receive [God's] mercy.” (Romans 11:31).

Paul teaches Christians that we have a debt to pay to the Jewish people, by blessing them in tangible ways.

Romans 15:27 clearly states: “For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.” How much more direct can God be regarding our Christian relationship to Israel and the Jewish people…

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Islam is a potent filter/block to “humanity”. There is no “both” that share anything to be agreed upon, it cannot be resolved, either Islam or Israel has to go. I vote the ideology of Islam off the island.

BL@KBIRD on November 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM

No. I’ve encountered Muslims — and very devout ones — who believe that Israel has a right to exist.

Islam, like Christianity, is beset by schism, and there are plenty of Muslims who think like we do about an Israeli right of defense. The flip side of the coin is for Israelis to understand what Moshe Dayan said in his autobiography — that all of those refugees either lived, or had ancestors who lived — in places no longer even on maps of Israel — the evidence has been so completely wiped.

As for voting the ideology of Islam off the island — well — that’s something neither you nor I can do — it’s something the Islamists must do themselves.

As I’ve stated elsewhere, the Jews and the Palestinians spring from the same flesh — and if one branch can say, two thousand years onward, “Next Year in Jerusalem!” — well, to our everlasting mortification — the other branch can as well. Two obstinate people duking it out over the same land — well, consider that the Romans, the very powerful Romans — drove the majority of the Jews out of the Holy Land, just as the Israelis, the very powerful Israelis — drove the majority of the Palestinians out of the Holy Land.

There’s a certain symbolism there, but I just can’t grasp it…

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Even now, ‘palestinians’ that are injured when of their own rockets blows up prematurely or goes off-course, or are injured by an Israeli counterattack, are being admitted to Israel on ambulances to be treated in Israeli hospitals.

slickwillie2001 on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

There is hope. But over in the West Bank, settlers are still trying — some with help from elements of Israel’s government — to stir things up. That’s a West Bank which hasn’t launched a missile against Israel in years, but is, to a small extent, enduring errant missile attacks from Gaza.

I do agree with you — the Israeli’s are showing themselves to be more humane than their adversaries. As for who is being allowed to leave Gaza for treatment — well, I’m betting few Fatah folk are being allowed out.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

But, amongst all of this imperfection, there is perfection — what God has told us.

Not one whit of what God has said, or what He has promised — to anyone — is to be discarded or ignored. Jesus Himself has told us that.

That’s why, if a Christian opens their Bible, they find an Old Testament.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:38 PM

As I’ve noted elsewhere on this site, Hamas is an organization whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel as its reason for existing. Hamas WILL NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE THE JEWS RIGHT TO LIVE.

Get used to it.

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I have said so also. Hamas is a detriment to peace — it needs to die.

unclesmrgol on November 21, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Theories about the reestablishment of modern Israel being predicted in the Bible are hogwash. The Church is now Israel, period. Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Don’t be silly. Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Not much of an argument…

Don’t be silly. Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 5:44 PM

“Silly” is an understatement by ten orders of magnitude for this wanna-be scholar and his fruitcake theories.
MelonCollie on November 21, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Wow, you got me there. So much excellent exegesis in your post.

Romans 15:27 clearly states: “For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.” How much more direct can God be regarding our Christian relationship to Israel and the Jewish people… Scrumpy on November 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

A text without context is a pretext.

Ro. 15:23 “But now that there is no more place for me to work in these regions, and since I have been longing for many years to visit you, 24 I plan to do so when I go to Spain. I hope to see you while passing through and to have you assist me on my journey there, after I have enjoyed your company for a while. 25 Now, however, I am on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the Lord’s people there. 26 For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the Lord’s people in Jerusalem. 27 They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. 28 So after I have completed this task and have made sure that they have received this contribution, I will go to Spain and visit you on the way.”

The poverty of the nascent church in Jerusalem was due to the their experiment in socialism…

Acts 2:44-45, “All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.”

Not only the Roman Christians were approached to support the Jerusalem church’s socialistic-induced poverty:

1 Cor. 16:1 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. 4 If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.

…the Church in Jerusalem, consisting of Jews who “had all things in common” were broke, and St. Paul took offerings from other cities’ churches to support them.

To suggest that Christians today have any obligation to send money to Israel based on Romans 15 places you in a class of lay theologians best classified as Hollowheads.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 10:42 PM

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