Feinstein: Hamas on the verge of committing war crimes

posted at 9:16 am on November 21, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

To be fair, Senator Feinstein said this last night, before Hamas took credit for their heroic attack on that bus full of unarmed civilians in Tel Aviv this morning. However, it’s not as if Hamas has suddenly taken up terrorism as a last resort. The rockets have rained down on southern Israel for years from Hamas-controlled Gaza, and they’re aimed at schools, stores, and homes. Feinstein sounds a little more concerned about their points of origin than their targeting in this clip:

“I hope people see Hamas for what it is, and that is using their own people as human shields,” Feinstein said. “Putting these missiles and rockets in places right in the middle of residential areas, in homes and mosques and parks — you don’t do this. I mean, this borders on being an international war crime. Now the problem is, Hamas isn’t a member of either of the organizations — the Geneva Conventions or others that would hold this as a war crime. So, it’s a very difficult situation. Our solidarity has to be with Israel. This is a point where Israel has been under attack for a long period of time, and nothing has solved it.”

I understand what Feinstein wants to say here, but it’s old news. If people haven’t already seen what Hamas has done in the past with their targeting of civilians, use of human shields, and years of provocations, then they’re not going to see those qualities in this episode, either. The war crimes have occurred during the years-long hail of rockets on Ashdod and Sderot; they didn’t start when the missiles got better range and started threatening Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

Feinstein urged Israel to tighten their relations with Mahmoud Abbas as the only path out of the decades-long crisis, and called again for the moderate Arab states to pitch in:

“I think Israel moving forward with Mahmoud Abbas is the only way to go,” she said. “And to miss this opportunity, actually because the window is closing — the demographics of the area are making it increasingly difficult, because the Arab population inside of Israel is increasing every year. So this is, in my book, an opportunity. And if the moderate Arab nations would every really to step up to be helpful in solving this, I believe it could be solved. You’ve got a couple of very thorny issues. But the geography of it has been pretty well worked out over the years.”

Sounds great … but which “moderate” Arab nations does she mean? The increasingly Islamist American ally of Turkey (which isn’t Arab at all, of course), whose head of state called Israel a “terrorist nation” this week with nary a word of protest from the US? The moderate state of Egypt, which is now run by Hamas’ parent organization the Muslim Brotherhood, thanks to Barack Obama’s insistence that our decades-long ally Hosni Mubarak capitulate? Jordan, whose kingdom has to look at American actions in Egypt, Libya, and Turkey, and wonder why they should stick their neck out to be “moderate”? Increasingly, the only “moderate” nation in the region is Saudi Arabia, which is a rather startling realization.

A two-state solution is the best outcome for Israel. Unfortunately, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution, a point it keeps making in word and deed over the past decade or more, and Abbas won’t back a two-state solution when he speaks to his own people in Arabic. Israel may be the only player in this conflict legitimately supporting that solution. When the US can solve that problem, we will be almost all the way to peace.


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Now the problem is, Hamas isn’t a member of either of the organizations — the Geneva Conventions or others that would hold this as a war crime. So, it’s a very difficult situation.

It’s only a difficult situation when one doesn’t have the knowledge or the spine to apply it.

First, neither political parties nor private organizations can be a signatory to the Conventions.

Second, the signatories to the Geneva Conventions (and the Hague Conventions before it) comprise every recognized state and every member of the UN. Even the Palestinian Authority, recognized as the legitimate government of the Palestinian Territories, acceded to the Conventions in 1989, though they weren’t recognized as legitimate until 1993 under the Oslo Accords.

Third, considering the comprehensiveness of accession to the Conventions, worldwide, and the time to which this has been the case, the Conventions are recognized as customary international law. Under the rubric of customary international law all governing authorities are deemed to have assented to the law unless specifically announcing otherwise. Further, under the fundamental principle of jus cogens some laws, and I would expect the Geneva Conventions to be one, can’t be renounced.

Feistein’s “The problem is” is more accurately Feinstein’s ignorance, not that Hamas hasn’t signed something in particular.

Dusty on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Pacifists should have to wear a t-shirt that says, “I am a pacifist, I won’t resist if you take all my stuff and kill me and my family.”

Haunches on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

In fact, our country wasn’t even founded with the Constitution. I’m not sure how you could be more wrong.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

So the Constitution is not the document which outlines the guidelines for liberal democracy in the United States? Pray tell, what is then?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Please people, just ignore libfreeordie. I have met his type before and he is just here to cause trouble. You can show him all the facts you want and he will just continue with antisemitic rants. You only encourage him when you answer his posts. He is not here to have an honest discourse about these events, he just wants to antagonize people.

bandutski on November 21, 2012 at 11:35 AM

How is this anything but an attempt to intimidate me into not posting?

You wouldn’t consider it intimidating if you didn’t know what you are posting is racist and wrong.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

How is this anything but an attempt to intimidate me into not posting? Is this conservatism?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Sorry, but contacting your employers that you are using their property to post has nothing to do with politics, conservatism, liberal, etc.

Nor is it intimidation of you since nobody is directly contacting you.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

So the Constitution is not the document which outlines the guidelines for liberal democracy in the United States? Pray tell, what is then?
libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM

That has nothing to do with what he said. Nice non-sequiter. He said it wasn’t the founding document.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

You are attacking conservatives for denouncing Hamas for firing rockets into Israel.

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state, ala Israel and pretending it is somehow “better” or “more civilized” or “more just” than other theocracies in the Middle East. To me they are all peas in the pod and American wealth should not be wasted on the area. We have issues to concern ourselves with at home.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Libfree is just a racist bigot like most of his hate filled progressives.

GardenGnome on November 21, 2012 at 11:39 AM

How is this anything but an attempt to intimidate me into not posting? Is this conservatism?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

No, it’s liberalism, applied equally to liberals.

What’s the matter, violent and bigoted little snot? Can’t take what you and your fellow Obama supporters dish? YOU established that it’s perfectly OK to harass people’s employers. Choke on it.

northdallasthirty on November 21, 2012 at 11:40 AM

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state,

So you attempt to justify you anti-semite support of terrorism by calling Israel an apartheid state? What evil. Sheer evil.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 11:40 AM

…and then dragged one of the dead bodies behind a motorcycle, whooping and shooting their guns in celebration? Do you think they treat gays better?

Night Owl on November 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Sure they do. They hang homosexuals from a construction crane…and then dump their bodies in a barren field for the crows and jackals to pick at.
(Animal lovers. Feeding the wildlife.)

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM

The Constitution wasn’t the founding document of our country, Idiot!

That makes your claim completely inaccurate.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

This line of conversation was about whether participating in the electoral process means one is participating in fundamentally racist system or not. Is, or is not, the Constitution the document which outlines the guidelines for liberal democracy in this country?

Nor is it intimidation of you since nobody is directly contacting you.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Again, you don’t seem to understand the definition of the word harassment or intimidation. You don’t have to contact someone directly to harass them. If, for example, you are getting a divorce and you call your former spouse’s place of business in order to besmirch his/her reputation that is harassment, regardless of whether you communicate with him/her. Threatening to do so to him/her is an act of intimidation as it warns of reprisal unless a desired shift in behavior (in this case, me not posting) occurs.

You wouldn’t consider it intimidating if you didn’t know what you are posting is racist and wrong.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 11:36 AM

You have confused intimidation with a person feeling intimidated. Regardless of how I feel about sentinelrules threats, they still are an attempt to intimidation.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state, ala Israel and pretending it is somehow “better” or “more civilized” or “more just” than other theocracies in the Middle East. To me they are all peas in the pod and American wealth should not be wasted on the area. We have issues to concern ourselves with at home.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Incorrect. You initally attacked Israel, and when confronted on your double standards, you switched your meme that all parties in the region at fault.

This is typical of the Left on Israel.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 11:43 AM

libfreeordie, a country that doesn’t fire rockets into civilian population centers is MORE civilized that the one that does.

Your argument relies upon the racist assumption that there are no civilian population centers in Gaza because the entire population are “terrorists.”

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state, ala Israel and pretending it is somehow “better” or “more civilized” or “more just” than other theocracies in the Middle East. To me they are all peas in the pod and American wealth should not be wasted on the area. We have issues to concern ourselves with at home.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

When do you plan to include liberals progressives for doing the exact same thing?

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 11:47 AM

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state, ala Israel and pretending it is somehow “better” or “more civilized” or “more just” than other theocracies in the Middle East. To me they are all peas in the pod and American wealth should not be wasted on the area. We have issues to concern ourselves with at home.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Uh huh, an apartheid state with this and this taking place.

Now, show us the number of Jews in the Palestinian Authority government, or video of Jews being allowed to protest the PA’s policies in the middle of Gaza.

You can’t. And that proves the point.

Liberals like yourself hate the United States and Jews, and the Palestinians are merely the convenient smokescreen you use to hide your bigotry.

northdallasthirty on November 21, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Stunning. Our country was founded with the 3/5 clause enshrined in the Constitution and you still wonder how liberal democracy can be fundamentally racist. The only way you can conclude that American liberal democracy is not fundamentally racist is if one of the three things are true:

1. When the United States was founded it was not a liberal democracy.
2. The 3/5 clause did not exist at the founding.
3. The 3/5 clause did not enshrine two distinct definitions of citizenship based upon race.

Which is it?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:18 AM

4. The 3/5 clause was a concession to Abolitionists (those were the people working to end slavery, libfree) who wanted to limit the political power of slave states. Slave states wanted to count their slaves as part of their populations for the purpose of assigning Representatives and getting more electoral votes.

Contrary to what you appear to have been taught, the 3/5 clause was America’s attempt to sew the seeds of the destruction of slavery into our founding document. If anything it proves that a majority of the Founders and their states realized that slavery was not truly compatible with the notion that “all men [were] created equal.”

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Again, you don’t seem to understand the definition of the word harassment or intimidation. You don’t have to contact someone directly to harass them. If, for example, you are getting a divorce and you call your former spouse’s place of business in order to besmirch his/her reputation that is harassment, regardless of whether you communicate with him/her. Threatening to do so to him/her is an act of intimidation as it warns of reprisal unless a desired shift in behavior (in this case, me not posting) occurs.

It’s not besmirching if you are using the spouse’s place of business property and/or equipment to inform them that the party is using it in a manner which they see as unfit.

Logically, that company/employer would then start an investigation and if punishment is necessary, they would probably act.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Guys, dont waste pixels on that sleazeball. We all know which society he would choose, if he would have to live in Tel Aviv or Gaza. His talk of equivalence is dumb pretense, sputtered from a save distance.

Valkyriepundit on November 21, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Of course, now we know why liberals love to rewrite history.

dominigan on November 21, 2012 at 10:41 AM

Rewriting history becomes necessary when you separate yourself and your thinking from truth. Communists/Democrats/Leftists/Liberals/Marxists/NAZIs/Progressives/Socialists – call them what you wish, their core beliefs are interchangable – all worship at the alter of the State. What the state says is “truth” is blindly accepted by them and is NEVER to be questioned. Rewriting history, or science, (ref: AlGore) or any other topic, is how they attempt to keep what could laughingly be called their “sanity”.

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 11:49 AM

When do you plan to include liberals progressives for doing the exact same thing?

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 11:47 AM

I do, often, particularly on my facebook and twitter accounts and in public forums/conversations I participaate in. Here, I’m more interested in seeing conservatives articular their support for Israel and documenting the numerous ways dehumanization of Palestinians undergird their arguments. Today the bonus was to see so many open throated posts of support for the old South African apartheid regime. I thought, at least, conservatives had learned their lesson there.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Your argument relies upon the racist assumption that there are no civilian population centers in Gaza because the entire population are “terrorists.”

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Actually, it relies upon the fact that the terrorists are firing rockets into Israel with impunity from so-called “civilian population centers”.

So why are the civilians allowing it, unless they support and endorse the terrorists?

And think carefully before you answer, bigot liar, because if you so much as say that they’re being forced, than you admit Hamas, the organization you support, the organization whose behavior you endorse, is brutalizing both Palestinian and Israeli civilians.

Perhaps if you had actually been asked to think for once in your life instead of relying on your black skin, you might be coherent. Do you understand now how racist your liberal Obama Party and its belief that black people are inferior is?

northdallasthirty on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Your entire strawman is stupid, but this is completely inaccurate. In fact, our country wasn’t even founded with the Constitution. I’m not sure how you could be more wrong.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

You’re right. Obviously his/her area of study can’t be law or history. I’ve not seen an intelligent post by him/her yet.

slickwillie2001 on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Considering I’m a pacifist? No it is not.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:28 AM

There is no such thing as a pacifist.

You only think you’re a pacifist because someone other than you has put themselves “on the wall” to protect your ignorant self from those that would do you harm.

Let’s see how pacifist you are when a missile is in-coming toward your dwelling and family.

Ignorance is bliss. And therein lies the beginning of the makings of a liberal.

Carnac on November 21, 2012 at 11:52 AM

If anyone has any idea of what Hamas is all about just read the Hamas 1988 Convenant. Hitler would have been a happy man to have been a founding member.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

The people of Gaza deserve better leadership instead of Hamas and the other terrorist organizations from what they have to choose. With all the outside funding that Gaza receives, they could be living in a prosperous nation, but instead they choose to live in squalor and accumulate an arsenal of weapons. The people of Israel just wish to live in peace.

Since Iran has been the main supplier of munitions to Gaza on Israel’s southern border and Hezbollah on Israel’s northern border, is this just the beginning of an Israel war with Iran? It is just a matter of time before Iran develops a nuclear bomb. And, in my humble opinion, and in the opinion of a lot of people, they will be more than willing to use it.

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Here, I’m more interested in seeing conservatives articular their support for Israel and documenting the numerous ways dehumanization of Palestinians undergird their arguments. Today the bonus was to see so many open throated posts of support for the old South African apartheid regime. I thought, at least, conservatives had learned their lesson there.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Actually, we got more of a kick out of watching you endorse the Nazis and state that murdering Jews, as Hamas explicitly states their intention is to do, is fully supported by Barack Obama and the Obama Party.

northdallasthirty on November 21, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Meanwhile, elsewhere:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/21/us-israel-telaviv-bus-explosion-idUSBRE8AK0HS20121121

“Celebratory gunfire rang out across Gaza as the news spread and the territory’s Islamist rulers Hamas praised the bombing…”

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 11:52 AM

It’s not besmirching if you are using the spouse’s place of business property and/or equipment to inform them that the party is using it in a manner which they see as unfit.

Define they. And then establish your knowledge of what “they” see as unfit or not. Until you can establish that, its harassment.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:53 AM

I’m also not in favor of U.S. aid to those countries. But of the three, Israel receives tens of billions of taxpayer dollars for the expressed purpose of upholding an apartheid state.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM

You’re a liar or stupid…or you just swill down anti-Israel propaganda.

We give Israel about $3billion/year. That hardly amounts to tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer dollars (lol. as though you care about money from taxpayers.

The “palestinians”, on the other hand, receive over $7.5billion/year…which they use to arm themselves and wage terrorist actions against women and children. Those are taxpayer dollars, too, yet no one hears you whining and sniveling about pouring that money down that particular rat hole.

You’re a hypocrite.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Are you threatening to harass me at my place of employment?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Why would having your employer read what you post on a public internet forum be harassment?

cptacek on November 21, 2012 at 11:54 AM

The Israel/South Africa Apartheid comparison demolished as the typical leftist demonization tactic they always use.

http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48909392.html

HumpBot Salvation on November 21, 2012 at 11:55 AM

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state, ala Israel and pretending it is somehow “better” or “more civilized” or “more just” than other theocracies in the Middle East. To me they are all peas in the pod and American wealth should not be wasted on the area. We have issues to concern ourselves with at home.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM

“Apartheid state?” Really? Before the Iraq war Israel was the only country in the Middle East where Muslims could vote. There are Palestinians serving in the Israeli Parliament. To compare that in any way to the suffering that took place among blacks in South Africa is miserable and ignorant.

As for Israel not being better than the theocracies of the Middle East…do you realize that there is a Palestinian female member of the Israeli parliament? In any M.E. theocracy a woman would be killed for even voicing the opinion that she should be able to vote.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Define they. And then establish your knowledge of what “they” see as unfit or not. Until you can establish that, its harassment.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Why should I define or establish? It would be you employer/university to establish that the guidelines that you agreed to are being met.

Hopefully, a proper investigation would be under taken…and it’s certainly not harrassment.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Why would having your employer read what you post on a public internet forum be harassment?

cptacek on November 21, 2012 at 11:54 AM

It’s not. It’s standard procedure that would be done by the Legal Department of the university/employer.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 11:57 AM

I do, often, particularly on my facebook and twitter accounts and in public forums/conversations I participaate in. Here, I’m more interested in seeing conservatives articular their support for Israel and documenting the numerous ways dehumanization of Palestinians undergird their arguments. Today the bonus was to see so many open throated posts of support for the old South African apartheid regime. I thought, at least, conservatives had learned their lesson there.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Mmm hmmmm. A totally ones-sided condemnation of Israel with the obligatory “conservatism has always supported apartheid” thrown in for good measure.

If you were honest and forthright in actually wanting to participate in a nonpartisan conversation you wouldn’t throw out such red meat. What “lesson” are conservatives here supposed to learn from your stereotyping, that liberals progressives will point fingers while ignoring their own hypocrisy?

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 12:00 PM

libfreeordie rejects our reality and substitutes his own.

ghostwalker1 on November 21, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Here, I’m more interested in seeing conservatives articular their support for Israel and documenting the numerous ways dehumanization of Palestinians undergird their arguments. Today the bonus was to see so many open throated posts of support for the old South African apartheid regime. I thought, at least, conservatives had learned their lesson there. – libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Libfreeofdie, currently there are 17 Palestinian members of the Israel Knesset. Muslim mosques are all over Israel, along with Christian Churches. Gays are allowed to be members of the Israeli military. And, you call Israel an apartheid regime? Let me know if any Christians and Jews are allowed as to live freely in Gaza?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM

“Apartheid” suggests that Arabs are not allowed into the country, or that they are told where to live within it, separate from the rest of the populace, neither of which is true. Try a different talking point. This one is getting old.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Liveasaslaveanddie doesn’t even know what apartheid means. Nor does he know anything about its actual implementation in South Africa. It’s very doubtful that he ever went to South Africa during the ‘apartheid years’…and even more doubtful that he’s been to that cess pool since his people took over.

“Apartheid” is just a word that he and others of his ilk throw around because it sounds bad. They can use it as an insult (even falsely) because of its “evil connotations”. It requires no intelligence and no independent thought.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Just admit that you are wrong.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

I will admit that my sentence should have been more specifically worded. None of that un-makes the substance of my claim, which is that U.S. liberal democracy is fundamentally racist.

The 3/5 clause was a concession to Abolitionists (those were the people working to end slavery, libfree) who wanted to limit the political power of slave states. Slave states wanted to count their slaves as part of their populations for the purpose of assigning Representatives and getting more electoral votes.

Intent is actually irrelevant in this particular case (and there’s scholarly disagreement on your interpretation). The point is that liberal democracy was able to contain an enshrinement of unequal citzenship based upon race within the Constitution. No matter how you slice it, it demonstrates that racism and liberal democracy can coexist and are not antithetical.

Contrary to what you appear to have been taught, the 3/5 clause was America’s attempt to sew the seeds of the destruction of slavery into our founding document. If anything it proves that a majority of the Founders and their states realized that slavery was not truly compatible with the notion that “all men [were] created equal.”

And doesn’t “liberal democracy” precisely make provisions for the will of the minority (psst, the Filibuster exists). In this case, the will of the slaveholding minority was partly represented within the Constitution. And it was actually *not* the democratic or any other Constitutionally provided process which ended slavery. It was black people self-emancipating en masse during the Civil War, which produced a crisis that Lincoln was then forced to address with the Emancipation Proclamation. The passage of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments all came after the fact, and were primarily seen as a punishment to the rebellious south than any kind of genuine desire for racial equality. If you recall, Lincoln and many other Republicans thought black self-deportation to Liberia would be a much better solution for the nation than racial egalitarianism. In no way, shape or form did American democracy provide the building blocks for racial justice. Indeed, political structure historically worked to maintain and entrench white supremacy, as we saw from the quick establishment of Jim Crow after the election of 1876 when the GOP abandoned southern blacks to their former masters.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Wrong! Wow, you really are a racist.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Yeah, I’m really getting that from lib’s comments. I never paid enough attention to realize this before. But the twisting of reality to fit a stereotype, the double-standard he/she’s using to compare Israel with Hamas, the hyperbole about Israel’s actions. Textbook racism. Sounds like my uncle when he talks about blacks.

Stunning lack of self-awareness here. In one thread lib is accusing America of being racist but is very obviously being anti-Semitic.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Define they. And then establish your knowledge of what “they” see as unfit or not. Until you can establish that, its harassment.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Here’s a pretty typical example of what “they” see as unfit.

Granted, you’re probably pretty confident that your being black-skinned means you can ignore the rules, but colleges and universities have been sued often enough that that’s no longer the case.

northdallasthirty on November 21, 2012 at 12:02 PM

cptacek on November 21, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Because Hot Air *isn’t* a public forum, it is an anonymous one.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM

I think the best way to explain progressives is to understand if they don’t directly see something then it doesn’t exist.

If you don’t see the baby, it is not alive.

Muslims slaughtered the Jews in areas they controlled so the rest left and lefties don’t see any more problems so to them the problem is solved.

Here Jews are trying to live peacefully and lefties would be happy if the Muslims slaughter everyone.

GardenGnome on November 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM

East Georgia College, interesting.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Because Hot Air *isn’t* a public forum, it is an anonymous one.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM

It’s not a “public” forum. It’s restricted. You have to register to participate. And, you can be banned at the Moderators’ discretion.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Your argument relies upon the racist assumption that there are no civilian population centers in Gaza because the entire population are “terrorists.”

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Why is that racist? The word has lost any meaning for the left. For you, “racist” is everything you don’t like.

As for the civilians in Gaza, they are used as human shields by the attackers.

The attackers are not terrorists, but the elected government of Gaza. The civilians in Gaza want the rocket attacks, that’s why they voted for Hamas.

Gelsomina on November 21, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Because Hot Air *isn’t* a public forum, it is an anonymous one.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Seems pretty public to me.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:06 PM

But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Yeah…uh…George Wallace (D-Alabama) would like to have a talk with you.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

And so would Bull Connor. And Orval Faubus. And J. William Fulbright. Dems one-and-all.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

And, one just can’t forget the “Conscience of the Senate”. Sen. Robert ByrdGrand Kleegle of the KuKluxKlan.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 12:06 PM

It’s not a “public” forum. It’s restricted. You have to register to participate. And, you can be banned at the Moderators’ discretion.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Exactly.

Why is that racist?

Why is dismissing the deaths of children in Gaza as irrelevant because they are “all terrorists” racist? Oy…..

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Seems pretty public to me.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what words mean. Is English your first language?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I am attacking conservatives for supporting an apartheid state,

So you attempt to justify you anti-semite support of terrorism by calling Israel an apartheid state? What evil. Sheer evil.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 11:40 AM

She’s a leftist c*nt-what else would you expect.
When my father visited Israel in ’60(10 years before I was born) there were many places he couldn’t go…because they weren’t under Jewish control yet. 7 years later-after Jerusalem-the CAPITOL of ISRAEL-was totally liberated…the IDF was horrified to discover that the Jordanians had paved the streets with Jewish tombstones. The Nazis did the same thing when they took over JEWISH area.
Like I said-Leftist C*NT!
*I’m a woman, LFOD. Kiss my proud Judeo-Catholic ASS!*

annoyinglittletwerp on November 21, 2012 at 12:09 PM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Glad you agree. Because what you are doing is called Trolling…and you can be banned for it.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what words mean. Is English your first language?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Then you have nothing to worry, or (ahem) feel “intimadated” about.

I have known several persons who were reprimanded by their employers for posting on such forums as HotAir, such as IMDB.

Just promise you won’t do another Amy Bishop.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Intent is actually irrelevant in this particular case (and there’s scholarly disagreement on your interpretation). The point is that liberal democracy was able to contain an enshrinement of unequal citzenship based upon race within the Constitution. No matter how you slice it, it demonstrates that racism and liberal democracy can coexist and are not antithetical.

Of course it’s not irrelevant. It proves that all three of your points were wrong. There was no “unequal citizenship,” Southern blacks shouldn’t have been citizens at all. They were considered property. Giving them any consideration at a ll in establishing a state’s political power was merely a ploy by slave states to grab more power than they should have had.

And doesn’t “liberal democracy” precisely make provisions for the will of the minority (psst, the Filibuster exists).

The filibuster isn’t part of being a “liberal democracy.” It’s a parliamentary rule of the Senate, nothing more. I can be changed by the Senate whenever they like.

In this case, the will of the slaveholding minority was partly represented within the Constitution. And it was actually *not* the democratic or any other Constitutionally provided process which ended slavery. It was black people self-emancipating en masse during the Civil War, which produced a crisis that Lincoln was then forced to address with the Emancipation Proclamation.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM

And with that bit of ignorant, finding-any-reason-to-hate-America revisionist history. I’m done with you. And so should anyone else here. If your view of the world, if your understanding of history is this twisted then there is no sense in discussing anything with you.

Your desire to hate your own country and your selective racial animosity make you as delusional as the most devout Klansman.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Admit it, or allow we must assume that you’re completely ignorant of history.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 12:13 PM

That’s pretty much established considering her “official” history on Israel.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Then you have nothing to worry, or (ahem) feel “intimadated” about.

Whether I “feel intimidated” is actually irrelevant to the question of if you are attempting to intimidate. Words, definitions, look em up.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:15 PM

. Today the bonus was to see so many open throated posts of support for the old South African apartheid regime. I thought, at least, conservatives had learned their lesson there. – libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM

You really are stupid, liveasaslaveanddie. And a liar, a racist and an anti-Semite.

You never went to South Africa, did you? You never saw it before the ‘fall’ of apartheid…and I’m sure you haven’t dared to travel there since your people took over and turned the country into an “African paradise”.

You leftists are the ones who need to “learn a lesson” from South Africa…and from Rhodesia, too.(another place you’ve never seen – but feel ‘qualified’ to yammer about)

You’re just an ignorant phony, repeating crap that you’ve been fed because it fits your racist mind-set.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 12:15 PM

And with that bit of ignorant, finding-any-reason-to-hate-America revisionist history.

You must really hate primary sources huh…..

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:16 PM

It is strange that die-hard liberals seem to tolerate Muslim fundamentalist nations around the globe. These nations treat women horribly. They are far from gay friendly. Christians, Jews and other religions are not welcome are even banned totally. There is nothing “liberal” about them. To my knowledge none of them have constitutions that protect the rights of the individual.

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Admit it, or allow we must assume that you’re completely ignorant of history.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Read the bits I quoted (and for some reason italicized) above and you will see that libfree appears to get their “history” from Zinn and co. It’s a pointless waste of time to discuss anything with this America-hating racist.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Whether I “feel intimidated” is actually irrelevant to the question of if you are attempting to intimidate. Words, definitions, look em up.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Again, contacting your employers about your behavior is not intimidation.

Though the party might feel that to be the case since there are oodles of evidence (Words = evidence in this case).

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Whether I “feel intimidated” is actually irrelevant to the question of if you are attempting to intimidate. Words, definitions, look em up.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Okay.

Dictionary.com:

troll definition

n.
an internet user who sends inflammatory or provocative messages designed to elicit negative responses or start a flame-war. (As a fisherman trolls for an unsuspecting fish.) : Don’t answer those silly messages. Some troll is just looking for an argument.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Regardless of the stupid strawman point you were trying to make, this sentence is dead wrong.

I will admit that my sentence should have been more specifically worded.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Admit it,
blink on November 21, 2012 at 12:13 PM

I just did…..

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM

You really are quite the disgusting little racist, aren’t you.

I wonder what the affirmative action committee that hired you would say if they saw the racist and anti-semitic drivel you post, all printed out and put in a binder for them?
What the hell. They’d probably give you a raise for being such a well-trained little lap dog.

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Yes. Racist. And they just keep revealing it more and more. And yet, in the same thread, is yelling “racist” about everyone else. Ironic.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM

THIS is a war crime – these Hamas gangsters should be receiving a knock on their door’s by some Israel tank shells.

Six Israeli ‘spies’ executed before baying mob in Gaza City, before motorbike gang drags one bloodied victim through the streets

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235635/Gaza-crisis-Six-Israeli-spies-executed-baying-mob.html

redguy on November 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Six Israeli ‘spies’ executed before baying mob in Gaza City, before motorbike gang drags one bloodied victim through the streets

Silly rabbit…it’s not a war crime since dark skinned people did it.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Read the bits I quoted (and for some reason italicized) above and you will see that libfree appears to get their “history” from Zinn and co. It’s a pointless waste of time to discuss anything with this America-hating racist.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:17 PM

I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.

Lincoln in his speech to Charleston, Illinois, 1858

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:22 PM

I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negr0es, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.

Lincoln in his speech to Charleston, Illinois, 1858

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:23 PM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:23 PM

And…what does this have to do with the subject of the thread?

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 12:26 PM

“My paramount object” in this war “is to save the Union,” wrote Lincoln in a public letter to Greeley, “and is not either to save or destroy slavery.” If “I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol. 5, pp. 388–389.↩

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:26 PM

And…what does this have to do with the subject of the thread?

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 12:26 PM

Those are for 29Victor. No doubt he will call Lincoln a revisionist against himself!

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

THIS is a war crime – these Hamas gangsters should be receiving a knock on their door’s by some Israel tank shells.

Six Israeli ‘spies’ executed before baying mob in Gaza City, before motorbike gang drags one bloodied victim through the streets

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235635/Gaza-crisis-Six-Israeli-spies-executed-baying-mob.html – redguy on November 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM

The number of Hamas war crimes is endless. According to their own Covenant of 1988 they live to kill Jews wherever they may live. And, looney liberals such as libfreeordie defends them.

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 12:28 PM

1. libfreeordie defines a Zionist as anyone that doesn’t want rockets fired at them. If you don’t want rockets fired at you and your family, then you are a Zionist according to libfreeordie.

Lies. Never said that.

2. libfreeordie has gone to great lengths to prove that racism and democracy and coexist

If by “great lengths” you mean, looking at the history of this nation objectively, then OK.

He did this because he erroneously thinks that an apartheid state is any state in which racist exists.

Fairy tales, never said any such thing.

3. libfreeordie claims that Israel is an apartheid state simply because racism exists. Obviously libfreeordie doesn’t know what an apartheid is.

Also words that did not emerge from my fingers on this keyboard.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Why is dismissing the deaths of children in Gaza as irrelevant because they are “all terrorists” racist? Oy…..

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:07 PM

It may be cold, but why is it racist?

It wouldn’t make any difference if the Palestinians were white. Or it shouldn’t make any difference.

If you really judge the actions of people by their skin color, than you are the racist here.

Gelsomina on November 21, 2012 at 12:29 PM

No, claiming that you should have been more specific is NOT admitting that what you wrote was dead wrong. Maybe you still don’t realize that it was dead wrong. Maybe you continue to be ignorant about the subject.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 12:29 PM

You would have better luck drinking the Atlantic Ocean than ever getting a liberal to admit that he/she was wrong about something.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Sounds great … but which “moderate” Arab nations does she mean?

According to Barky, the US is the only moderate Muslim country.

BobMbx on November 21, 2012 at 12:34 PM

The truce is on now.

lexhamfox on November 21, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Pacifists should have to wear a t-shirt that says, “I am a pacifist, I won’t resist if you take all my stuff and kill me and my family.”

Haunches on November 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/jediagh/guns/not_armed.jpg

davidk on November 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

libfreeordie, the progressive, has succeeded on this thread what liberals do to our country: attention seeking, domination, noncompromising & destructive behaviors.
In this virtual world, I’ll just swat you away.

Belle on November 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM

ibfreeordie, the progressive, has succeeded on this thread what liberals do to our country: attention seeking, domination, noncompromising & destructive behaviors.
In this virtual world, I’ll just swat you away.

Belle on November 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM

I don’t know. More and more libfree is looking like nothing more than an old-school bigot.

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Why is dismissing the deaths of children in Gaza as irrelevant because they are “all terrorists” racist? Oy….. libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Israel didn’t start this damn little war, Hamas has started it. Do I like to see innocent children or people die, hell no. No matter what their faith, race, ethnicity. However, Hamas has made it a strategic decision to use innocents as shields. They fire their rockets from locations that are occupied with the innocent. They store munitions in schools and hospitals. I ask you, do you think that the United States would tolerate missiles fired upon any part of the United States? This morning Hamas claimed a victory because they were able to bomb a bus full of Israeli citizens. I have only disgust for Hamas and fundamentalist Muslims.

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Patton and Churchill on the subject of the Moslem faith:

“To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammed and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab” – Patton

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries.
Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.” – Sir Winston Spencer Churchill

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM

29Victor on November 21, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Why won’t you respond to those Lincoln quotes?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM

Why won’t you respond to those Lincoln quotes? – libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM

Your views deserve only contempt.

SC.Charlie on November 21, 2012 at 1:14 PM

So the Constitution is not the document which outlines the guidelines for liberal democracy (???) in the United States? Pray tell, what is then?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM

“LIBERAL DEMOCRACY”

You’re an idiot.

(just so you’ll know: America is not a “liberal democracy”. It never has been and was never designed to be. Where the hell did you get your so-called ‘education’?)

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Re-read my post. I said “tens of billions.” I thought conservatives were good at math….

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Yes, you did say that…and you lied when you said it.

Want to double down again, Jew-hater?

Solaratov on November 21, 2012 at 1:20 PM

libfreeordie, have you ever worked and lived in the Middle East? I presume not. I’ve worked, lived and travelled across the entire middle east for a span of 20 years. In politics, I’m neither a repub nor a dem. I’m not into tribalism. But what I found was that everyone hated the Palestinians and they were described as the plague on the ME. No arab likes them, but externally, they are muslims. So the arab ME supports the muslim palestinians vs. the jewish israelis. You prof, exhibit classic signs of anti-semitism. You may not realise it yourself. And please try and travel around the world, especially ME, cos that will really open your eyes.

tommy71 on November 21, 2012 at 1:21 PM

How are the Lincoln any different in kind from Obama’s “bitter clingers” quote against Christians or Clinton’s “He’d be carrying our bags” quote. Two sides to the same coin.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 1:23 PM

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