Feinstein: Hamas on the verge of committing war crimes

posted at 9:16 am on November 21, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

To be fair, Senator Feinstein said this last night, before Hamas took credit for their heroic attack on that bus full of unarmed civilians in Tel Aviv this morning. However, it’s not as if Hamas has suddenly taken up terrorism as a last resort. The rockets have rained down on southern Israel for years from Hamas-controlled Gaza, and they’re aimed at schools, stores, and homes. Feinstein sounds a little more concerned about their points of origin than their targeting in this clip:

“I hope people see Hamas for what it is, and that is using their own people as human shields,” Feinstein said. “Putting these missiles and rockets in places right in the middle of residential areas, in homes and mosques and parks — you don’t do this. I mean, this borders on being an international war crime. Now the problem is, Hamas isn’t a member of either of the organizations — the Geneva Conventions or others that would hold this as a war crime. So, it’s a very difficult situation. Our solidarity has to be with Israel. This is a point where Israel has been under attack for a long period of time, and nothing has solved it.”

I understand what Feinstein wants to say here, but it’s old news. If people haven’t already seen what Hamas has done in the past with their targeting of civilians, use of human shields, and years of provocations, then they’re not going to see those qualities in this episode, either. The war crimes have occurred during the years-long hail of rockets on Ashdod and Sderot; they didn’t start when the missiles got better range and started threatening Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

Feinstein urged Israel to tighten their relations with Mahmoud Abbas as the only path out of the decades-long crisis, and called again for the moderate Arab states to pitch in:

“I think Israel moving forward with Mahmoud Abbas is the only way to go,” she said. “And to miss this opportunity, actually because the window is closing — the demographics of the area are making it increasingly difficult, because the Arab population inside of Israel is increasing every year. So this is, in my book, an opportunity. And if the moderate Arab nations would every really to step up to be helpful in solving this, I believe it could be solved. You’ve got a couple of very thorny issues. But the geography of it has been pretty well worked out over the years.”

Sounds great … but which “moderate” Arab nations does she mean? The increasingly Islamist American ally of Turkey (which isn’t Arab at all, of course), whose head of state called Israel a “terrorist nation” this week with nary a word of protest from the US? The moderate state of Egypt, which is now run by Hamas’ parent organization the Muslim Brotherhood, thanks to Barack Obama’s insistence that our decades-long ally Hosni Mubarak capitulate? Jordan, whose kingdom has to look at American actions in Egypt, Libya, and Turkey, and wonder why they should stick their neck out to be “moderate”? Increasingly, the only “moderate” nation in the region is Saudi Arabia, which is a rather startling realization.

A two-state solution is the best outcome for Israel. Unfortunately, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution, a point it keeps making in word and deed over the past decade or more, and Abbas won’t back a two-state solution when he speaks to his own people in Arabic. Israel may be the only player in this conflict legitimately supporting that solution. When the US can solve that problem, we will be almost all the way to peace.


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Sounds great … but which “moderate” Arab nations does she mean?

my thought exactly. Pretty short list if there is a list at all.

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Bishop?

Tenwheeler on November 21, 2012 at 9:21 AM

The middle east feels empowered now and are flexing their muscle. Obviously blame lies with the fanatics, but also with US politicians.

myrenovations on November 21, 2012 at 9:21 AM

Hamas won’t be happy until Israel is gone. I say Israel should return the sentiment.

chelie on November 21, 2012 at 9:21 AM

A real ally of Israel would hold a gun to Morsi’s head, blockade all Egyptian ports and sink some of his navy until Hamas, well...moderated.

ted c on November 21, 2012 at 9:21 AM

Rats.

So, Senator Feinstein woke up this morning to this realization?

Good for her.

How long has she been in office?

How long has this conflict been going on?

Right.

Tenwheeler on November 21, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Israel is an apartheid state, like explicitly so. Their existence is built upon a history of imperialism and displacement and their “discretion” in the Middle East comes from their welfare like dependency on the United States. I’m not sure, exactly, why Middle Easterners were and are asked to pay for the sins of Germans and other Western European nations who committed ethnic cleansing against Jewish people. Or how the West has the audacity to act all high and minded about anti-semitism when a generation ago, they were steeped in it. But here we are. Zionism is racism.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Parking military assets at schools and places of worship are war crimes.

astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 9:28 AM

In Obama’s eyes, this whole Israeli/Palestinian problem just needs more Arab Spring.

At this minute I bet he’s still trying to figure out how to funnel arms to some “moderate” wing in the area.

ButterflyDragon on November 21, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Welcome to reality, Senator.

thebrokenrattle on November 21, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Guess she didn’t see bodies being dragged
through the streets tied to motorcycles .
Yup , the religion of pieces .

Lucano on November 21, 2012 at 9:28 AM

How can we support Isreal, but we repudiated South Africa. Oh wait, American conservatism supported apartheid South Africa pretty much until the end. Circle complete.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Willfully historically illiterate & proud.

batterup on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Scratch a lib and out comes an anti-semite. Every time.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, here is proof-positive that the left gets even angerier and mean-spirited in victory.

thebrokenrattle on November 21, 2012 at 9:31 AM

Borders on being an international war crime? Hamas & the Palestinian Arabs have been committing war crimes for years! They are terrorists!

Publius24 on November 21, 2012 at 9:32 AM

How can we support Isreal, but we repudiated South Africa. Oh wait, American conservatism supported apartheid South Africa pretty much until the end. Circle complete.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

Could you at least learn to spell. Are you not a college professor?

katy the mean old lady on November 21, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Re-annex the Sinai and declare it the paleoarab state. Egypt can suck it.

RobertE on November 21, 2012 at 9:34 AM

On the verge?

The Rogue Tomato on November 21, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Israel is an apartheid state, like explicitly so. Their existence is built upon a history of imperialism and displacement and their “discretion” in the Middle East comes from their welfare like dependency on the United States. I’m not sure, exactly, why Middle Easterners were and are asked to pay for the sins of Germans and other Western European nations who committed ethnic cleansing against Jewish people. Or how the West has the audacity to act all high and minded about anti-semitism when a generation ago, they were steeped in it. But here we are. Zionism is racism.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Your ignorance on the matter is not astounding as you espouse the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Black mentality of Israel, which is pure bigotry.

Israel is a democracy and their so-called welfare like dependency (code words) is the same amount that Egypt gets and is tiny compared to it’s overal GDP. Also, for the first few decades of Israel’s existence, most of the financial aid came from Europe.

Also, how exactly are people in Saudi Arabia and Iran asked to pay when they are hundreds of miles away from Israel?

And Europe continues to be anti-semetic and the Muslim world continues to be steeped in this bigotry.

I hope this helps you with your Nazism.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 9:35 AM

The 2 state solution will never be accepted by the savages, never ever ever.

The only solution is for Israel to have a 50 mile clear-cut zone around them in every direction; paved, striped, and patrolled by mall security.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Re-annex the Sinai and declare it the paleoarab state. Egypt can suck it.

RobertE on November 21, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Interesting fact” “Palestine” was the ancient home of the Philistines, the same folks that fielded Goliath against David, and an entire regiment against Samson and his jawbone. There are no known descendants of the ancient Philistines alive today, and even if there were, historically, the ancient Philistines lived nowhere near modern-day Israel.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:37 AM

War Crimes apply to agents of a government.
If we prosecute Hamas for war crimes we are at the same time recognizing them as a “legal” entity, with all the benefits of being recognized (like a seat at the UN, begging for money at the World Bank, legally purchasing weapons, demanding Israel treat Hamas criminals as POWs, etc).
Hamas would willingly sacrifice its own to be legitimized.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 9:38 AM

How can we support Isreal, but we repudiated South Africa. Oh wait, American conservatism supported apartheid South Africa pretty much until the end. Circle complete.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

You must have missed the part where Arabs can vote in Israeli elections.

If you want comparisons to South Africa, perhaps you should look to Syria’s relationship with Lebanon or Jordan with the PLO.

But that would force you to look at the Caucasian vs. Non-Caucasian dynamics where Whitey is not always at fault.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 9:38 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

When the state of Israel was founded the new Israeli government gave the native Arabs within their new borders the option to stay as full citizens of the new sate. But these Arabs were persuaded by the neighboring Islamic countries to leave Israel and thus was born the Palestinian refugee problem.

These refugees have never received, or received only marginal, help from their Islamic friends. This was done on purpose so that there would be a permanent talking point for the Arab street.

Every decision by the Arabs since then has been to continue this problem. It is a deliberate policy. Victims are so much more useful than independent functioning citizens.

esr1951 on November 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

The majority of Muslims want the entire world to submit to Islam. They say it openly.

Isreal demonstrates that Islam is not the only religion because it exists and Islam hasn’t destroyed it. Israel’s existence is the problem for most Muslims. There will be no peace as long as isreal exists. If isreal is destroyed it gets worse for civilization everywhere.

Libfree idiots cut their own throat because they thrive on hate.

GardenGnome on November 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

and let’s all give thanx to Mrs. Clinton for her promotion of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood. how in the world has hillary skated out of Benghazi and egypt’s alliance with hamas?? i hope the congress roasts her coconuts when she visits dc in december. i wish at least hot air would hold her feet to the fire.

gracie on November 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

A two-state solution is the best outcome for Israel. Unfortunately, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution,

This has been the case all along and yet we still have useless envoys huffing and puffing and an enduring fantasy called ‘The Peace Process’.

As for negotiating with Abbas good luck with that.

CorporatePiggy on November 21, 2012 at 9:42 AM

“On the verge”?

Missiles aimed at civilians as targets is a war crime and it has been going on for years.

What is wrong with these people (i.e. politicians)?

Blaise on November 21, 2012 at 9:43 AM

How can we support Isreal, but we repudiated South Africa. Oh wait, American conservatism supported apartheid South Africa pretty much until the end. Circle complete.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

I know, awful huh, kind of like demorats supporting slavery, Jim Crow laws, and segregation pretty much until the end.

Oh wait…you mean conservatives didn’t actually say “Hey, apartheid is really cool”? That would mean…you were…stereotyping? Naaaa.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 9:44 AM

Willfully historically illiterate & proud.

batterup

All that anal sex from playing catcher has damaged his brain.

xblade on November 21, 2012 at 9:45 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Huh, so how many Jews live in Gaza? How many vote there, or serve in their govt as elected officials?

Sura 5.51 – O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Sura 5:82 – The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.

Sura 9:29 – Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] … until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.

Unsurprisingly, you side with the savages. You’re a disgusting puke. If advocating terrorism doesn’t get one banned from HA, apparently nothing will.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Let’s remember that Hamas won a democratic election in Gaza. Let’s also remember that during the Islamist Spring we saw Islamist governments elected all over. What does all this prove? If every Arab country had free and democratic elections, they would elect terrorists.

Publius24 on November 21, 2012 at 9:46 AM

DiFi’s statement isn’t so much an argument within the general public as it is a battle within her own party against the hard-core ideologues, who have thought of Israel as simply an extension of the Republican Party since Likud became the nation’s dominant political party in 1977, and have held that spot for the most part over the past 35 years.

Feinstein isn’t making the point her about Hamas’ actions to Republicans. She’s making it to people like libfreeordie. It’s an inter-party fight over the direction of U.S. foreign policy for the next four years, and one — judging by the catcalls during the DNC Convention — where the rank and file hard-core Democrat ideologues are on the Palestinians’ side, while those actually having to run the party know it would be political suicide to openly embrace that position, as long as groups like Hamas don’t want to live with Israel, but want the Jewish state eliminated.

jon1979 on November 21, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Let’s remember that Hamas won a democratic election in Gaza. Let’s also remember that during the Islamist Spring we saw Islamist governments elected all over. What does all this prove? If every Arab country had free and democratic elections, they would elect terrorists.

Publius24 on November 21, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you…

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Unsurprisingly, you side with the savages. You’re a disgusting puke. If advocating terrorism doesn’t get one banned from HA, apparently nothing will.

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Roger that. One can only surmise what or who along the way peed in this child’s gene pool.

TXUS on November 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Verge….really, She just noticed this?

ninjacoastie on November 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you…

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Akzed on November 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

…only antisemites push such gross inaccuracies like the type that you wrote here.

blink on November 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

I do believe at this juncture, one can safely assume that libfreeordie is an anti-semite.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Missiles aimed at civilians as targets is a war crime and it has been going on for years.

Blaise on November 21, 2012 at 9:43 AM

.
It’s really frustrating, but deliberately targeting civilians is not a War Crime.
A person has to be working for a legitimate government to commit a war crime.
.
If Mexican Cartels start shooting civilians, they are committing crimes, not war crimes.
Hamas is not a recognized government; thusly their people only commit crimes.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 9:53 AM

How can we support Isreal, but we repudiated South Africa. Oh wait, American conservatism supported apartheid South Africa pretty much until the end. Circle complete.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

Eliminating the apartheid worked miracles for the South African economy. Life quality of “oppressed” black population dropped like an anvil after they “liberated” the cracker money. But at least they’re free now…

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 9:55 AM

I do believe at this juncture, one can safely assume that libfreeordie is an anti-semite.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:51 AM

It’s fairly obvious when she writes that, “Good. I hate Israel.”

But blacks in Aemrica can’t be bigots or something.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 9:56 AM

It’s really frustrating, but deliberately targeting civilians is not a War Crime.
A person has to be working for a legitimate government to commit a war crime.
.
If Mexican Cartels start shooting civilians, they are committing crimes, not war crimes.
Hamas is not a recognized government; thusly their people only commit crimes.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Looks like an act of war to me. But then again, I’m not a pedantic lawyer-type. Wasn’t Hamas legitimately elected in Gaza a few years ago? Sounds like that qualifies as a “government” to me.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:56 AM

Bishop?

Tenwheeler on November 21, 2012 at 9:21 AM

Imam!

Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 9:57 AM

Eliminating the apartheid worked miracles for the South African economy. Life quality of “oppressed” black population dropped like an anvil after they “liberated” the cracker money. But at least they’re free now…

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Free to commit cultural (and sometimes even actual) suicide.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:57 AM

In a closed door meeting Obama said, “Shit, we should have saved the “video of hate” for this situation in Gaza, sweetcheeks.”
Hillary, “We could have Susan run it by the U.N. again, Magnificent One.”
Obama, “Do you think?”
Hillary, “People are stupid, tell a lie often enough and they will accept it as the truth. I mean, look at how many times you have stood on the stump and said you care about the little people..,”
Obama and Hillary laugh uncontrollably, Obama says, “I hate that f–king Netanyahu. He started all of this…”
Hillary, “Drone his ass…”
“Oh man, could we get away with that?”
“You’re the Magnificent One, you just duped a nation into committing suicide. You can do anything you want.”
Obama replied, “Well, he is on my kill list and even Turkey has said Isreal is a terrorist nation, so it must be true…”
Obama, “No, if I hit Netanyahu, I could never lie about it and keep a straight face, better have Susan dust off the video thing again. Get her on the sunday talk shows too…”

Oracleforhire on November 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM

It’s really frustrating, but deliberately targeting civilians is not a War Crime.
A person has to be working for a legitimate government to commit a war crime.

If Mexican Cartels start shooting civilians, they are committing crimes, not war crimes.
Hamas is not a recognized government; thusly their people only commit crimes.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 9:53 AM

The debate is moot. Does a cockroach defecating in my food commit a crime, or a war crime? The last f*ck I gave sailed out years ago. Smash the vermin anyway, then discuss.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Frankly, your ignorance is abysmal, but your opinions do seem to fit well with the Arabs who continue to make Mein Kampf a best-seller throughout the Middle East. Why don’t you just accept your blind hatred of the Jews, and join the NAZI’s and Muslim’s calling for the total extermination of the Jews? At least that way you could make a claim to having a modicum of integrity and you wouldn’t reveal yourself for the hate-filled racist you are.

oldleprechaun on November 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

What the He@@ are you a professor of, Revisionist History?

You are to be pitied.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Feinstein: Hamas on the verge of committing war crimes:

Did she say “on the verge”?

HAHAHHAHAHHHAH!!

Yeah, I needed a good Thanksgiving laugh!

ToddPA on November 21, 2012 at 10:01 AM

I do believe at this juncture, one can safely assume that libfreeordie is an anti-semite.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 9:51 AM

You might be surprised by the fact that he/she/it is very possibly a Jew. Nobody hates one’s country of origin like liberal Jews. For them, Israel embodies everything they hated in their parents – those ridiculous, outdated things like tradition, religious spirituality, hard work… No amount of shrink visits can straighten that out.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:02 AM

But here we are. Zionism is racism.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

“Don’t talk like that. When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism.”

EnglishRogue on November 21, 2012 at 10:02 AM

libfreeordie is what we refereed to as “script kiddie’s” in the early computer days. You encourage him by replying to him. Just ignore him and sooner or later he will leave.

BruceB on November 21, 2012 at 10:04 AM

You might be surprised by the fact that he/she/it is very possibly a Jew. Nobody hates one’s country of origin like liberal Jews. For them, Israel embodies everything they hated in their parents – those ridiculous, outdated things like tradition, religious spirituality, hard work… No amount of shrink visits can straighten that out.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Does being Jewish mean that one can not be an anti-semite? Am I a bad person for even entertaining the notion of the stereotypical self-loathing Jew?

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM

libfreeordie is what we refereed to as “script kiddie’s” in the early computer days. You encourage him by replying to him. Just ignore him and sooner or later he will leave.

BruceB on November 21, 2012 at 10:04 AM

“It” is the last semi-intelligent troll we have. “Its” brain is addled up and most of “its” ideas are pulled out of lower torso, but at least “it” has some. We are all frustrated by what happened on Nov 6, and a frustrated man needs something to kick.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Zionism does not equal judaism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haybEo-Tx4

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

Many Jewish people are against Zionism. But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

You might be surprised by the fact that he/she/it is very possibly a Jew. Nobody hates one’s country of origin like liberal Jews. For them, Israel embodies everything they hated in their parents – those ridiculous, outdated things like tradition, religious spirituality, hard work… No amount of shrink visits can straighten that out.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Nah. libfree is a typical braindead libtard. Educated to the point of stupidity. A typical black, racist anti-semite with a chip on his shoulders.

You’re correct about the daddy issues. See his comments on the Elmo thread. Pops must not approve of his chosen lifestyle. Hence his constant need for attention by trolling conservative websites and spouting his ignorance.

HumpBot Salvation on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Does being Jewish mean that one can not be an anti-semite? Am I a bad person for even entertaining the notion of the stereotypical self-loathing Jew?

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM

You still *might* be a bad person but your view on Jews is realistic enough. Being a Jew with double citizenship, I can heartily confirm it.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Feinstein, Schummer, Pelosi.

Not a good hand to draw to. Two Odd Queens and a Jack Ass.

If they are to be part of any group making decisions of life and death for the people of Israel then the people of Iarael are in mortal danger for sure.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on November 21, 2012 at 10:11 AM

“I hope people see Hamas for what it is, and that is using their own people as human shields,” Feinstein said. “Putting these missiles and rockets in places right in the middle of residential areas, in homes and mosques and parks — you don’t do this. I mean, this borders on being an international war crime. Now the problem is, Hamas isn’t a member of either of the organizations — the Geneva Conventions or others that would hold this as a war crime. So, it’s a very difficult situation. Our solidarity has to be with Israel. This is a point where Israel has been under attack for a long period of time, and nothing has solved it.”

…funny how these liberals sound more like Bush…Bolton, and the other so called “right wing war mongers” more and more every day.
Sh!t…Obama has adopted most of Bush’s war on terror policies and now has laid the ground work for launching wars without Congressional approval with his idiot move against Libya.

…can’t wait for the Move on and code pink wing of the democratic party to call out Fienstien for her support of the “genocidal” Israel …it’s “war crimes”…..and how she is just a mouth piece for the powerful “Jewish lobby” here in America.

…what’s that???…..she is??…oh..my fault.
She’s a democrat…..she gets a pass….nothing to see here.

Baxter Greene on November 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Many Jewish people are against Zionism. But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Sorry, perfesser. It’s your side that recognizes the color of a person’s skin first…instead of the content of his character.

And, the Palestinians have never had a homeland. They’re nomadic, the gypsies of the Middle East.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Finally saw the photo of the corpse being dragged through the streets. When I mentioned the other day that Hamas has a history of tossing their political opponents off the tops of buildings, I forgot to mention that during every conflict with Israel, they go around killing their political enemies. I have no doubt this poor guy was just someone who opposed Hamas.

Blake on November 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Many Jewish people are against Zionism. But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Now tell me please, if Israel is a country of apartheid, what does it make Egypt and Jordan, where all Jewish residents have been either thrown out or executed? Does it make them better or worse than Israel?

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM

You’re correct about the daddy issues. See his comments on the Elmo thread. Pops must not approve of his chosen lifestyle. Hence his constant need for attention by trolling conservative websites and spouting his ignorance.

HumpBot Salvation on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

You are obsessed with me, you know that right? You proved it in your attempt to find me, and out my real identity. My participation has waned on this site significantly, your obsession with me has continued to burn brightly. Do you even have a life of your own?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Israel is an apartheid state, like explicitly so. Their existence is built upon a history of imperialism and displacement and their “discretion” in the Middle East comes from their welfare like dependency on the United States. I’m not sure, exactly, why Middle Easterners were and are asked to pay for the sins of Germans and other Western European nations who committed ethnic cleansing against Jewish people. Or how the West has the audacity to act all high and minded about anti-semitism when a generation ago, they were steeped in it. But here we are. Zionism is racism.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Libfreeordie, one thing you overlook is how God’s covenant promises in regards to Israel are never, ever going to be forgotten. Ever. God promised that the nation of Israel would be reborn and put back in the land. And He did it. The fact that He used Western nations has nothing to do with it. He could have just sent angels to do the same thing.

And if God’s promises about a displaced people kicked out of their homeland for 1900 years going back came to pass, what about the promise of Jesus returning? The sheep and the goats?

You are on the wrong side of God, buddy. You’d better watch out.

JoseQuinones on November 21, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM

.
Not a moot point.
Hamas wants legitimization, so it can legally purchase weapons, scam money from the World Bank, issue passports, allow emmigration, and so on, if it takes War Crimes charges in order to be legitimized, what is the loss of a few fighters?
As a country Gaza can do infinitely more damage to Israel.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM

“Tel Aviv bus hit by bomb; Hamas celebrates” http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/21/us-israel-telaviv-bus-explosion-idUSBRE8AK0HS20121121

ROP

davidk on November 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM

But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Liar. Are you the slightest bit aware of the fact that the people you defend (Hamas) would kill you the first chance they got? Did you see how they just judged six people guilty of spying and shot them dead in the middle of the street and then dragged one of the dead bodies behind a motorcycle, whooping and shooting their guns in celebration? Do you think they treat gays better?

Night Owl on November 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Many Jewish people are against Zionism. But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Yes, they are called self-hating Jews, or “Uncle Tom Jews” from your perspective.

And if conservatives love “apartheid” so much, why are they opposed to such regimes as Assad or Mugabe?

Most conservatives are naturally supportive of Israel because it’s a rationale and moral choice between persons who are defending themselves from enemies that wish to destroy them.

As opposed to liberals who oppose (or hate as you proudly state regarding your bigotry) Israel because Israelis are white and Arabs are non-white, so the whites must be wrong somehow.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM

And, the Palestinians have never had a homeland. They’re nomadic, the gypsies of the Middle East.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM

That is plain wrong. I’ll spare you a lecture on the modern history of Middle East, but the term “Palestinian” itself, as applied to an Arab, was invented by Soviet propagandists in the 70-ies.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Now tell me please, if Israel is a country of apartheid, what does it make Egypt and Jordan, where all Jewish residents have been either thrown out or executed? Does it make them better or worse than Israel?

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM

On the topic of tolerance of internal difference? I would call them about equal. I’m also not in favor of U.S. aid to those countries. But of the three, Israel receives tens of billions of taxpayer dollars for the expressed purpose of upholding an apartheid state. I find that immoral and I oppose it. I find our political establishment’s groveling before Israel’s racist occupation to be an international shame, and I find it disturbing that American evangelicalism is a huge source of support for Israel in the United States. I can only hope that support for Israel will wane as evangelicalism itself wanes.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Libfreeordie, one thing you overlook is how God’s covenant promises in regards to Israel are never, ever going to be forgotten. Ever. God promised that the nation of Israel would be reborn and put back in the land. And He did it. The fact that He used Western nations has nothing to do with it. He could have just sent angels to do the same thing.

And there you have it ladies and gentleman. The core of American Israeli policy. The wild ravings of evangelical Christianity.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:18 AM

But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Liberals were the useful idiots for the Soviet Union, killers of 40 million of its own people.

Don’t bring that moral authority bu(($H!t around here you cheap dime-store twit.

itsspideyman on November 21, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Not a moot point.
Hamas wants legitimization, so it can legally purchase weapons, scam money from the World Bank, issue passports, allow emmigration, and so on, if it takes War Crimes charges in order to be legitimized, what is the loss of a few fighters?
As a country Gaza can do infinitely more damage to Israel.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM

It is moot in a sense that in a sane world, the outcome should have been the same: turning Gaza strip into a large parking lot.

In reality, HAMAS needs legitimization like fish needs a bicycle. Having an actual government means having to govern, and that’s one thing they didn’t and won’t learn; moreover, it gives Israel very convenient targets to eliminate. Plus, Obama can shovel money their way anyway.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:19 AM

It’s really frustrating, but deliberately targeting civilians is not a War Crime.
A person has to be working for a legitimate government to commit a war crime.

If Mexican Cartels start shooting civilians, they are committing crimes, not war crimes.
Hamas is not a recognized government; thusly their people only commit crimes.

LincolntheHun on November 21, 2012 at 9:53 AM

And the dead people are still dead.

davidk on November 21, 2012 at 10:19 AM

“moderate” Arab nations

Who?

GarandFan on November 21, 2012 at 10:21 AM

What?!! Hamas on the verge of committing war crimes? Hell, they stepped over the verge years ago.

Scriptor on November 21, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Are you the slightest bit aware of the fact that the people you defend (Hamas) would kill you the first chance they got?

Did I defend Hamas in this thread? I’d be concerned with Hamas’ treatment of sexual minorities if the U.S. was funneling tens of billions of dollars to prop up Hamas in their war against gay and lesbian people. But we don’t. And the movement for gay and lesbian liberation in the Middle East has to come from within the Middle East (just as it did in this country). Of course the state of gay rights in the Middle East is abhorrent. What does that have to do with the U.S.’s support for an apartheid government?

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Do you libtards who whine about “Zionism” even care that there is a significant contingency in Israel who are both citizens AND ethnic Arabs?

No?

I didn’t think so.

“Apartheid” suggests that Arabs are not allowed into the country, or that they are told where to live within it, separate from the rest of the populace, neither of which is true. Try a different talking point. This one is getting old.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Yeah…uh…George Wallace (D-Alabama) would like to have a talk with you.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Israel is an apartheid state, like explicitly so
libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Yo Libbie. Do you even know what apartheid is?

Didn’t think so. How many Arab members serve in the Knesset? Get back to me and defend your total and abject ignorance.

BigAlSouth on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Palestinian Arabs cast themselves as a native people in “Palestine” – like the Aborigines in Australia or Native Americans in America. They portray the Jews as European imperialists and colonizers. This is simply untrue.

Until the Jews began returning to the Land of Israel in increasing numbers from the late 19th century to the turn of the 20th, the area called Palestine was a God- forsaken backwash that belonged to the Ottoman Empire, based in Turkey.

The land’s fragile ecology had been laid waste in the wake of the Arabs’ 7th- century conquest. In 1799, the population was at it lowest and estimated to be no more than 250,000 to 300,000 inhabitants in all the land.

At the turn of the 20th century, the Arab population west of the Jordan River (today, Israel and the West Bank) was about half a million inhabitants and east of the Jordan River perhaps 200,000.3

The collapse of the agricultural system with the influx of nomadic tribes after the Arab conquest that created malarial swamps and denuded the ancient terrace system eroding the soil, was coupled by a tyrannous regime, a crippling tax system and absentee landowners that further decimated the population. Much of the indigenous population had long since migrated or disappeared. Very few Jews or Arabs lived in the region before the arrival of the first Zionists in the 1880s and most of those that did lived in abject poverty.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

It is moot in a sense that in a sane world, the outcome should have been the same: turning Gaza strip into a large parking lot.

Ah there we go. A call for outright genocide. But Zionism isn’t racism or anything….

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

It’s amazing the hatred of jews among American liberals is so intense they will support the most vicious blood thirsty behavior imaginable. They will also call defending oneself when war is waged against them “imperialism”. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked by it anymore, but I always am.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

But American conservatives love apartheid in most any form, so naturally, folks are supportive of Isreal.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Yeah…uh…George Wallace (D-Alabama) would like to have a talk with you.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

And so would Bull Connor. And Orval Faubus. And J. William Fulbright. Dems one-and-all.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

a·part·heid/əˈpärtˌ(h)āt/
Noun:

1. (in South Africa) A policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.
2. Segregation in other contexts.

Where is Israel guilty of forced segregation?

davidk on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

I’m just happy to see a senior Democrat talking about this. Perhaps it will get some news coverage.

As to earlier comments about the plight of Palestinians: For starters, the winners of wars get to make the rules. 1947 had consequences (the UN vote to partition Palestine), as did 1967 (the Six Day War). Remember, in 1949, the UN brokered a cease-fire. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians left Israel at this time. They were WELCOMED into Jordan but were soon expelled after they tried to overthrow the king. Lebanon, unable to learn from history, welcomed the them, but the Palestinians could not behave and started a terror state within Lebanon. Over 100,000 Lebanese were murdered by Palestinians. They are unable to coexist and deserve the fate they have created for themselves.

TheLoudTalker on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

It’s amazing the hatred of jews among American liberals is so intense they will support the most vicious blood thirsty behavior imaginable. They will also call defending oneself when war is waged against them “imperialism”. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked by it anymore, but I always am.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

If there is anyone who is an anti-semite, it’s the American liberal.

itsspideyman on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

And there you have it ladies and gentleman. The core of American Israeli policy. The wild ravings of evangelical Christianity.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:18 AM

ROFL

American Jews are actually raving Evangelical Christians?

Huh…I need to brush up on the religiosity stuff.

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Ah there we go. A call for outright genocide. But Zionism isn’t racism or anything….

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

The only calls for genocide I hear are coming from the Palestinians. Or do they not count?

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:25 AM

On the topic of tolerance of internal difference? I would call them about equal. I’m also not in favor of U.S. aid to those countries. But of the three, Israel receives tens of billions of taxpayer dollars for the expressed purpose of upholding an apartheid state.

Israel receives several billion per year, not tens of billions. And the PLO, Jordan and Egpyt combined get a similar amount for their “apartheid” states, yet you don’t seem to be upset about that.

Or how about that China gets hundreds of billions in economic aid for their occupation of Tibet?

Why do you proudly hate Israel and excuse other countres for such behavior?

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Ah there we go. A call for outright genocide. But Zionism isn’t racism or anything….

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Hateful little Lib, aren’t you?

It really chaps your hide that 78% of Americans are Christians, doesn’t it?

Pathetic.

kingsjester on November 21, 2012 at 10:25 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Stupid, bigot.

Vince on November 21, 2012 at 10:25 AM

On the topic of tolerance of internal difference? I would call them about equal. I’m also not in favor of U.S. aid to those countries. But of the three, Israel receives tens of billions of taxpayer dollars for the expressed purpose of upholding an apartheid state. I find that immoral and I oppose it. I find our political establishment’s groveling before Israel’s racist occupation to be an international shame, and I find it disturbing that American evangelicalism is a huge source of support for Israel in the United States. I can only hope that support for Israel will wane as evangelicalism itself wanes.

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Lie #1: On the topic of tolerance of internal difference? I would call them about equal.

You will be the first to scream bloody murder if Israel were to treat its non-Jewish residents in the same fashion as its neighbors treat Jews. If not for the double standards liberals wouldn’t have any, would they?

Lie #2: Israel receives tens of billions of taxpayer dollars.

Israel receives exactly 3 billion dollars a year in military aid. Most of this money must be spent in the US, which cripples Israel’s own industry. Moreover, Israel receives them according to Camp David Accords, in exchange for having withdrawn from Sinai and agreeing to Egyptian aid.

Archivarix on November 21, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Ah there we go. A call for outright genocide. But Zionism isn’t racism or anything….

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Reminds me of a “Laugh-In” joke, raving anti-semites on that show
/snarc

Laugh-In Looks at the News…..

“Today the United Nations condemned Zionism as a form of racism.

Sammy Davis Jr. said ‘Hey, that’s great! Now I can hate myself!’”

itsspideyman on November 21, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Israel is an apartheid state

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Ignoramus

But most likely liar.

Shy Guy on November 21, 2012 at 10:27 AM

libfreeordie on November 21, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Hillary funded this attack on civilians in Apr 2012

Against GOP objections, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has announced that the Obama administration is sending $147 million in funding to the West Bank and Hamas-run Gaza.

faraway on November 21, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Oops!

Night Owl on November 21, 2012 at 10:28 AM

It’s amazing the hatred of jews among American liberals is so intense they will support the most vicious blood thirsty behavior imaginable. They will also call defending oneself when war is waged against them “imperialism”. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked by it anymore, but I always am.

tommyboy on November 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Don’t be shocked. They see a black and white world, where the White is always wrong even when threatened with destruction.

Add to the fact that Israel has became a economic and military power in the Middle East in less than 40 years while many Arab countries continue to be shit-holes for centuries, well, that just drive even crazier.

sentinelrules on November 21, 2012 at 10:28 AM

ROFL

American Jews are actually raving Evangelical Christians?

Bishop on November 21, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Only the Jews who think the citizens of their ancestral homeland should be able to defend themselves by any means necessary. The self-loathing anti-Zionist Jews don’t count.

gryphon202 on November 21, 2012 at 10:28 AM

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