Fiscal cliff deal taking shape?

posted at 10:01 am on November 19, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Can Congress reach a deal to avoid the consequences of the “fiscal cliff”?  So far the prospects have looked rather dim.  National Journal’s Dan Friedman has a more optimistic take — but it depends on Republicans trading top tax rates for tax and entitlement reform:

Top staffers are working on a fiscal cliff deal after leading Democrats emerged encouraged from a Friday White House meeting in which Republican leaders did not explicitly reject the suggestion they accept a Senate-passed bill that would allow tax rates to rise on top earners, leadership aides said.

Democrats hope their bill, which would need to pass only the House, can serve as a “down payment” this year in a deal that would include agreement on a mechanism to enact tax and entitlement reforms next year.

“The real development from our standpoint is that we said we are absolutely clear that we are sticking to our position that the Senate bill is what is [going to] happen between now and Dec. 25th,” the Democratic aide said. “Notably, Republicans didn’t shoot that down.”

Republicans replied that there are a lot of things they didn’t shoot down along with tax increases on the top brackets:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. spokesman Don Stewart mocked the suggestion GOP leaders’ silence on Democrats’ suggestion is significant. “We didn’t rule out unicorns,” Stewart said. “We didn’t rule out building a cheese factory on the moon and Democrats didn’t rule out abolishing the EPA.”

Still, rather than flatly rejecting Democrats’ suggestion, GOP leaders said that their staffs would work in the coming week on binding proposals to reform the tax code and get savings from entitlement programs, staffers said.

Yes … but. The election has probably taken the wind out of the sails from the GOP drive to lock in all of the current tax rates.  Had Obama lost, or had control of the Senate shifted to the Republicans, that might not be the case.  With only one chamber under their control and the prospect of driving off the cliff in order to protect the top rates, it’s getting more likely that we’ll see a Republican horsetrade on those points in order to get commitments on entitlement and tax reform.

Those commitments had better be solid, though.  The sequestration that drove this process might be one way to ensure that Democrats follow through on an agreement, but this time the sequestration had better take a bigger bite out of Democratic priorities than the previous version did.  Boehner’s aide made that argument, which the Democrats didn’t dispute:

An aide to House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, earlier Friday said the GOP’s goal for the coming weeks “is to settle on long-term revenue targets for tax reform as well as targets for savings from our entitlement programs.” With targets agreed on, “we can create simple mechanisms, in statute, that would achieve those revenue and spending goals,” the aide said. “They would be in place unless or until more thoughtful policies replace them.”

The Democratic leadership aide did not dispute that description, except to say it overlooks action to be taken in December. When considered along with Republicans’ muted reaction to Democrats’ proposal to pass the Senate tax bill, the aide argued the upshot of the meeting is the probability the GOP will accept, in December, an increase in taxes on top earners in exchange for agreement on binding tax and entitlement reform mechanisms next year.

In the current political line-up, that’s probably the best the GOP can do without playing chicken all the way to the cliff with Democrats.  If voters wanted a better deal, they would have replaced more of the players two weeks ago.

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Let it burn!

dczombie on November 19, 2012 at 10:02 AM

I hope nobody of the GOP leadership goes spelunking any soon. Cave-ins will happen.

Archivarix on November 19, 2012 at 10:03 AM

The only responsible thing is to give Democrats more money to spend. Yeah, that’s the ticket to prosperity.

Archivarix on November 19, 2012 at 10:04 AM

The GOP needs to start making the simple point that a punitive, optics based, 1.6 trillion dollar tax increase on the top two percent over ten years won’t do a damn thing to put even a minute dent in the CURRENT 16 trillion dollar elephant in the room.

But nope. They won’t.

blatantblue on November 19, 2012 at 10:05 AM

LIB.. Adorkable Wisconsin Congressmen who want to run for President in 2016 better not sell out.

Illinidiva on November 19, 2012 at 10:06 AM

but it depends on Republicans trading top tax rates for tax and entitlement reform: caving and Boehner shedding a tear…a certainty.

FIFY

Dingbat63 on November 19, 2012 at 10:07 AM

The GOP needs to start making the simple point that a punitive, optics based, 1.6 trillion dollar tax increase on the top two percent over ten years won’t do a damn thing to put even a minute dent in the CURRENT 16 trillion dollar elephant in the room.

But nope. They won’t.

blatantblue on November 19, 2012 at 10:05 AM

That’s too complicated a message for the new electorate. They want to stick it to the rich, all the way to the hilt. And if the rich don’t like it they can move to France. Right?

Archivarix on November 19, 2012 at 10:08 AM

every Republican needs to say every time they have a microphone…..this amount of taxes will only run the govt for 8 days and do nothing to spur jobs for American’s citizen.

The dems use talking points well…it’s time for the Repubs to do same thing.

CoffeeLover on November 19, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Republican leaders did not explicitly reject the suggestion they accept a Senate-passed bill

The Senate passes bills? Since when?

R’s need to get entitlement and spending reforms in place before they agree to any tax increases. Dhimms have a long tradition of promising spending cuts in exchange for tax increases, but the cuts never seem to materialise.

iurockhead on November 19, 2012 at 10:09 AM

We need a revolution.

moonsbreath on November 19, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Hee.. Hopefully Cantor uses the opportunity to get the job promotion he wants.

Illinidiva on November 19, 2012 at 10:10 AM

If the R’s do tax increases for promises of entitlement reform later they are going to keep losing elections. I understand we’re in a tight spot, but there are things they can do to play hardball. Start with a bill that increases taxes on the top bracket two or three times what Obama wants AND takes spending back to GWB’s last budget levels. Every day it doesn’t pass, add the next tax bracket and cut spending to the previous budget. Continue the pain until the Democrats vote on it or we go off the cliff.

txhsmom on November 19, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Let it burn.

Wake me when it’s over.

The Rogue Tomato on November 19, 2012 at 10:12 AM

iurockhead on November 19, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Not to mention the fact that all bills re: spending must start in the House. They are acknowledging that the Senate intends on stripping one of the House’s previous bills and using reconciliation to pass it. I knew Reid would do this. Do not negotiate with terrorists.

txhsmom on November 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM

The dems will renege on any agreements made now

Cripe ssdd

cmsinaz on November 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Compromise deal? Hmmm, let me guess what that looks like.

The GOP gives the Democraps whatever they want in the form of tax increases that will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of reducing the debt or deficit.

And the Demopcraps will promise future spending cuts that will never materialize.

When the whole thing falls apart the Democrat/media machine will blame the evil Republicans.

Same old crap.

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Obama is making trade deals with poor nations like Burma to bring in even more cheap imports while looking to tax US earners even more. It’s like the Demcrats are trying to destroy US jobs. Oh, and they also want to legitimize the illegal workers that are here to compete with the citizens for the dwindling number of jobs.

Buddahpundit on November 19, 2012 at 10:15 AM

The GOP leadership are a bunch of establishment wimps. Do you realize much our taxes, etc. go up in the next two years. Bush tax cuts expire 1/1/13, obamacare takes full effect 2014, state taxes, fees fines, property taxes, etc.

Boner & mcconnell suck, we need tea party leadership, men & woman with balls.

Also, can someone make a case for smaller government. Someone who actually believes it’s the right thing to do.

Danielvito on November 19, 2012 at 10:15 AM

A deal may be taking shape, but a meaningful one isn’t. The reality is that budget constraints are meaningless when there is no budget.

Here’s what will happen. There will be an agreement to raise taxes on the rich and constrain growth of entitlements. But since there is no budget the increases in entitlements will be spread over several areas in several omnibus spending bills. The regular increases will be there, but just harder to find than in a budget line.

That’s the whole point of the senate getting out of the budgeting business. It gives lawmakers leeway to increase spending anywhere they want without the accountability of people being able to see the increase.

This is just boob bait for the bubbas. An agreement will be made that the Democrats have no intention of keeping. And the Republicans know this and count on the increases just as much as the Democrats.

Buckland on November 19, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Rush was right on this one.

tomas on November 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Hey Boehner… Lucy and the football…

sandee on November 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Bandaids for lacerations – problem solved!

Thank god this wasn’t a serious issue, or we might really be in trouble.

beatcanvas on November 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM

The GOP needs to start making the simple point that a punitive, optics based, 1.6 trillion dollar tax increase on the top two percent over ten years won’t do a damn thing to put even a minute dent in the CURRENT 16 trillion dollar elephant in the room.

But nope. They won’t.

blatantblue on November 19, 2012 at 10:05 AM

The electorate does not care. The electorate is not interested in solving our nation’s fiscal problems. They are simply interested in their warped idea of “fairness.” They feel that they have been soaked by the evil rich, and they want to see those rich soaked in return. That’s all there is to it. Arguments about whether or not raising taxes will help reduce the debt mean nothing.

Shump on November 19, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Why am I surprised that Boehner isn’t bending over in that picture?

CurtZHP on November 19, 2012 at 10:20 AM

Right. Tax hikes on wealthy now, entitlement reform in 20 years. Heard that one before.

ctmom on November 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM

it’s getting more likely that we’ll see a Republican horsetrade on those points in order to get commitments on entitlement and tax reform.

How have those ‘commitments’ worked out in the past? Someone refresh my memory.

Washington Nearsider on November 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM

but it depends on Republicans trading top tax rates for tax and entitlement reform:

I would find this acceptable if I thought it was in anyway based on reality. The Democrats are not stupid. They know as well as the Republicans that taxing the richest Americans will not put a dent in the national debt. But class warfare plays well to their base (and maybe outside their base at the moment). I refuse to believe the Democrats are going to agree to actual substantive reforms in taxes and entitlements for something as trivial as taxing the rich. Maybe I am just cynical but if the past is any indication, we will see the Republican leadership conned into increased taxes implemented on the rich right now if not yesterday and some vague promise from the Dems that they agree to ongoing discussion on tax and entitlement reform. Then when the next get together is scheduled for these discussions Harry Reid can’t show up because he is the only adult chaperoning a cub scout outing or something.

DaveDief on November 19, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Shump on November 19, 2012 at 10:19 AM

I disagree to a point.

Yes, the base of the D’s won’t give a flying f***.

However, independents, who Romney only one by five points, might respond better to an argument of utility instead of an argument of “defending” the rich from the GOP.

blatantblue on November 19, 2012 at 10:25 AM

…OIHO has done well for the rest of the country at this critical time in it’s history…gave us JugEars AND Bonehead!

KOOLAID2 on November 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Compromise deal? Hmmm, let me guess what that looks like.

The GOP gives the Democraps whatever they want in the form of tax increases that will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of reducing the debt or deficit.

And the Demopcraps will promise future spending cuts that will never materialize.

When the whole thing falls apart the Democrat/media machine will blame the evil Republicans.

Same old crap.

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM

You pretty much nailed it, except that the defense cuts will go on as scheduled.

Bo(eh)ned again.

Steve Eggleston on November 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM

in order to get commitments on entitlement and tax reform

“Commitments” from Democrats which will not be worth the paper they are written on.

The historical record reveals that Democratic “commitments” on spending reductions and/or tax reform are for the most part expedient lies.

Unless the “reforms” and/or spending reductions are part of the bill and effective immediately, becoming the law of the land, they are a worthless sop.

farsighted on November 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Top staffers are working on a fiscal cliff deal after leading Democrats emerged encouraged from a Friday White House meeting in which Republican leaders did not explicitly reject the suggestion they accept a Senate-passed bill that would allow tax rates to rise on top earners, leadership aides said.

Depends what the “rat” side of the balanced approach includes. I have little faith in the orange-skinned one to cut a deal that conservatives will be happy with and, make no mistake, this is about curbing spending and not just about stopping the progression to the fiscal cliff. And- as we’ve seen before- the rat-eared-wonder is apt to demand a lot of further gifts to his moochers in the eleventh hour.

Happy Nomad on November 19, 2012 at 10:27 AM

…depends on Republicans trading top tax rates for tax and entitlement reform

Which means the deal will be long on increased tax rates, and short on reform.

Let it Burn!

Thomas More on November 19, 2012 at 10:27 AM

The GOP leadership are a bunch of establishment wimps. Do you realize much our taxes, etc. go up in the next two years. Bush tax cuts expire 1/1/13, obamacare takes full effect 2014, state taxes, fees fines, property taxes, etc.

Danielvito on November 19, 2012 at 10:15 AM

There’s one tax that the GOP had better not give in on, and that is the estate tax or “death tax.”

This is the most immoral and unfair tax that exists and should be abolished completely. Think about it… for one thing, all that money and property has already been taxed numerous times as it was being earned. And what if, say, something like a family farm had already been taxed many years ago when its original owner died and the farm was passed on to the current generation. Now, when the current owner dies, he has to pay that tax again when he leaves it to his heirs?

It’s tyranny at its worst.

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 10:27 AM

LET IT BURN

stormridercx4 on November 19, 2012 at 10:28 AM

but it depends on Republicans trading top tax rates for tax and entitlement reform:

What does this mean? Are they going to raise the rates and eliminate standard deductions? And how can raising rates only for a specific group be consided “balanced” or “fair”?

tommyboy on November 19, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Just give the Dems the rate hikes on top income earners. Try to get some concessions on entitlements, but understand that any meaningful reform can’t happen until the GOP retakes the White House and Senate. And that won’t happen until we get this “Republicans are the party of the rich” BS talking point off the table.

Doughboy on November 19, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Pretend you are a dedicated socialist… errr… Democrat. Your side has been winning consistently since 2006. Even though the margins were a little tighter in 2012 the electorate seems to resonate with the meme of “the rich need to pay their fair share”. So why in Marx’s name would you back off now? You can drive over that cliff with your foot on the gas because you KNOW that you won’t be held to account for it. You and your comrades are going to successfully grow the state by a huge amount and you’ve locked it into the equation for eternity. Life is good.

Metanis on November 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Maybe they could hold out for a budget from Harry. How many reforms do they think we’ll buy into so they can get away with see, we did our best and we got some reforms. There’s no need to raise the tax rates on anybody just stop spending so darn much money. This is what the main message from the TEA party has been all along.

Kissmygrits on November 19, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Start with getting a budget passed – then let’s talk about taxes and entitlements.

No budget – no baseline.
No baseline- no accountability.
No accountability – no deal.

Hill60 on November 19, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Bo(eh)ned again.

Steve Eggleston on November 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM

I keep seeing this clip on FOX News of Boner and Zero sitting at the negotiating table, Zero has on his classic “F-you” smirk, and Orange Boner is smiling slapping him on the back and giving him a handshake.

We are so screwed. Goodbye, America, nice knowing ya.

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM

I see a whole lot of weeping and lying in the near future.

The lying will be done by all democrats and some republicans. The weeping by anybody with any economic sense. And, you-know-who…

Promises of entitlement cuts in the future. Jay-sus!

trigon on November 19, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Here is what I dont get. Why dont Republicans just go with Claire McCaskill’s and Nancy Pelosi’s drastic idea of raising taxes on millionaires on only millionaires.

Why are we using the stupid 200k (250k for married couples) and pretending people that make that much are millionaires, or that small businesses that make that much are million dollar businesses?

I get negotiations, but this is just dumb. Even the idiotic 47% are smart enough (at least I hope) to understand that millionaires are people making one million dollars, and not people making 200,000.

milcus on November 19, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Look, we know that at the very least the Dems will get their precious tax increase on at least millionaires, and that they’ll only offer cuts in name only in return. The writing is on the wall.

changer1701 on November 19, 2012 at 10:39 AM

“We didn’t rule out unicorns,” Stewart said. “We didn’t rule out building a cheese factory on the moon and Democrats didn’t rule out abolishing the EPA.”

That is the greatest quote in the history of politics.

faraway on November 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM

So tax hikes and deduction caps, or eliminations? What kind of tax reform? Will it simplify the tax system in any way?

Dongemaharu on November 19, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Those commitments had better be solid, though.

Cannot…stop…laughing…

Good one!

L.I.B.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on November 19, 2012 at 10:46 AM

If the R’s do tax increases for promises of entitlement reform later they are going to keep losing elections. I understand we’re in a tight spot, but there are things they can do to play hardball. Start with a bill that increases taxes on the top bracket two or three times what Obama wants AND takes spending back to GWB’s last budget levels. Every day it doesn’t pass, add the next tax bracket and cut spending to the previous budget. Continue the pain until the Democrats vote on it or we go off the cliff.

txhsmom on November 19, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Rick Perry just got a shiver up his back and he can’t figure out why.

If you aren’t in the politicing business, you should be,

platypus on November 19, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Cantor basically screwed Boehner the last time this came up. Since making Boehner look like an idiot,helps Cantor further his career, don’t think it won’t happen again.

Illinidiva on November 19, 2012 at 10:50 AM

I smell SELLOUT!!!

We need a more aggressive RINO purge!!!

landlines on November 19, 2012 at 10:50 AM

ULTIMATE BOB!! I just saw your entry: “Goodbye, America….”

That’s the title of our manuscript comprising all the Words from the Lord given us since June 1998. In January 2007, the Lord specifically said, “Tell her [America] good-bye.” It came as part of a Word titled Divided and Broken, which we are.

You all may be tired of hearing what God has to say about America, but we are duty bound to TELL you. Now, concerning “fiscal cliffs” and all that, here is the Lord’s latest message to and about America.

“I CANNOT ABIDE HER”

Friday, 12 October 2012: The Holy Spirit directed Julie aside this evening, shortly before our regular Word session to give her a Word. This is the relevant paragraph.

“For the Lord would say unto His people, This day have I unleashed a power against America that will quickly upend her and knock her off her feet. I have set My Hand against her and have determined a ruinous judgment for her. Her stagnating economy and her blighted people will not recover but will be swept away to destruction. I have cast all her hopes away and have set her down in the dust. I am making her rush to her destruction, for this thing must be done and must be settled. I cannot abide her any more.”

We hope you have ears to hear, because God is very serious in His intentions toward this nation.

Good-bye, America indeed!

Gordy on November 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM

PS:

How about SPENDING CUTS NOW…revenue later???

landlines on November 19, 2012 at 10:53 AM

When will the markets take a hand in this?

trigon on November 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM

The Republicans need their own propoganda machine. They just can’t make themselves do it. Whatever they come up with will be bad for America. They can’t seem to stand up for us or the Constitution.

BetseyRoss on November 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM

SSDD for Harry Reid. We are being set on a downward spiral if we do not cut spending.

jake49 on November 19, 2012 at 10:55 AM

With only one chamber under their control and the prospect of driving off the cliff in order to protect the top rates, it’s getting more likely that we’ll see a Republican horsetrade on those points in order to get commitments on entitlement and tax reform.

Those commitments had better be solid, though.

BWAHAHAHA! :;wipes away tear::

Funniest thing I’ve read today.

Physics Geek on November 19, 2012 at 10:55 AM

The Republicans need their own propoganda machine. They just can’t make themselves do it. Whatever they come up with will be bad for America. They can’t seem to stand up for us or the Constitution.

BetseyRoss on November 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM

They need to actually go on the offensive.

MAKE the Democrats strike down a bill to repeal the AMT. The AMT is a burden on the middle class.

Go on talkshows and go on the offensive. When you have a Democrat and Republican senator on FNS, that Republican senator should, instead of blabbing about job creation, go after the Democratic counterpart.

Force them to answer the question about how a 1.6 trillion dollar increase over ten years helps us with a 16 trillion dollar debt.

Our Republireps never do anything like this. They are always responders. They are never going out on offense.

blatantblue on November 19, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I think tax rates need to rise……on everyone!

There’s an interesting article over on the Weekly Standard about by Andrew Furguson about William Niskanen. Essentially, by keeping tax rates low, we are doing the exact opposite of what free-marketeers call for, namely we are short-circuiting price signals.

By raising rates on everyone, we increase the cost of government to everyone and then people start to understand what it is they voted for. Hey, you want big government, you pay for big government.

The problem is, we have a very progressive tax code and Niskanen’s theories only really work if you have a flat tax system with a broad base….but I still think if everyone gets hit, there will be a light-bulb moment where the marginal liberals will say, “oh crap, what the heck did I vote in!?!?”

powerpickle on November 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Ed seems to think that we need to save this country from itself by not enduring 1 day of the Clinton tax rates. I say you stand your ground and go off and THEN you might get some goodwill from the public when you lower their tax rates back down with obviously the top rates not getting done. You then let the Democrats own it. Owning it Ed is the only option as you point out if they wanted us to save them they had to have voted differently.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM

According to this Forbes opinion writer, both the Keynesians and the supply-siders are wrong in dealing with the “fiscal cliff.” Unless we have a strong dollar, we will remain in a recession of slow or no growth.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2012/11/18/well-never-reach-the-fiscal-cliff-and-it-wouldnt-matter-if-we-did/

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 10:59 AM

I’ve seen this movie before, anyone want to guess the ending??????

D-fusit on November 19, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Somebody needs to lock Republicans in a room for 3 days with a recording of Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football repeating over and over. Maybe they’d get a clue.

moo on November 19, 2012 at 11:00 AM

powerpickle on November 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM

I agree. What Ed doesn’t see is the value of a wake-up call. Solving the problem without one actually puts us right back in front of the blame bus and a public that is sleep-walking through big government badness.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:00 AM

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 10:59 AM

All te more reason to go off the cliff and then let the Democrats own it. We aren’t going to change this country without THEM feeling some more Democrat pain. Forget outreach..they need to get who the democrats are and what their future is when voting for them.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:04 AM

The American people voted for higher taxes. Let them have it.

EddieC on November 19, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Right. Tax hikes on wealthy now, entitlement reform in 20 years. Heard that one before.

ctmom on November 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Yeah, can’t wait to hear the illegal immigration deal the RINOs sign up to. Something like this: Citizenship for everybody in the entire third world NOW! and secure the border over the next 50 years.

Alabama Infidel on November 19, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Here’s a notion for the fiscal cliff deal.

The Bush tax cuts are evil, God knows Donkey has been telling us that for years. Despite revenue jumping up we were told the “rich were getting over” despite a heavy plurality of the voters not paying a dime in or worse getting money back. I have an idea-let’s just let the Nush tax cuts expire and as the greatest American to ever live says “let everyone haz some skin in da game.”

You wanted Ogabenomics America I am game.

harlekwin15 on November 19, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Gordy on November 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM

In other words, God is in the “Let it Burn” camp too? ;-)

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Just as an additional note did anybody’s parents let them do something to find out why it was wrong and they were right, especially with adult children that had freedom from them?

We are not going to be able to control adults like Ed would like. They have to crash and burn. I realize this is bad for everyone but so is permanent Democrat Presidents and Senates

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:07 AM

The message is simple. Republicans should point out that every time more money is printed in order to “service” debt, the citizens are all being taxed with less buying power for their dollar.

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Republicans should bring up two seperate bills for vote:

Bill # 1: Keep the current tax rates for those making under $ 200,000. This will automatically increase the tax rates on the jobs creator and will also increase the capital gain/dividend tax rates as per Obama and the democrat desire. This bill is certain to pass and become law but it will be a disaster for the economy and Obama will own it.

Bill # 2: Keep the current tax rates for people making over $ 200,000 and keep the Capital gain tax/ dividends tax rate at their current level. This bill will be strongly opposed by Obama and the democrats and it would not pass or even it passes it would not be signed by Obama. However the politics of it is that Obama and the democrats would be responsible for taxing the job creators and the economic disaster that would follow.

mnjg on November 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM

mnjg on November 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Or you let the shockwaves go through the economy so peolpe pick their head out of their a$$ and notice what the Democrats are doing and then you make the same deal you would have beforehand excpet the MSM has a harder time glorifying Democrats and Demonizing Republicans. I would add the panic that ensues would be a lot more leverage than you have now and the blame game shift to the left.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:11 AM

According to this Forbes opinion writer, both the Keynesians and the supply-siders are wrong in dealing with the “fiscal cliff.” Unless we have a strong dollar, we will remain in a recession of slow or no growth.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2012/11/18/well-never-reach-the-fiscal-cliff-and-it-wouldnt-matter-if-we-did/

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Monetary policy is the 1100 pound gorilla in the room that nobody is talking about.

Democrats don’t want to talk about it (maybe they don’t understand how important it is), and the GOP doesn’t seem willing or capable of addressing the issue.

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Not to step on your idea I am sure you mean well but are you talking about the public that re-elected Obama doing this kind of analytical thinking? They just thought Gay Marriage was more important than jobs.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Start with getting a budget passed – then let’s talk about taxes and entitlements.

No budget – no baseline.
No baseline- no accountability.
No accountability – no deal.

Hill60 on November 19, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Exactly! Boehner and McConnell should get out in front of the media and repeat ad nauseum that there can be no serious talks until the Senate produces a budget, that it has ignored its Constitutional mandate for nearly four years. Then ask how Harry Reid can fly in the face of the Constitution and still maintain his leadership role.

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Boehner & GOP think like the Democrats that using one Dixie cup will lower the oceans (raising taxes on rich will lower the deficit).

Conservative4Ever on November 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I don’t believe the Republicans have figured this out yet, the Democrats do NOT want a solution, they want to be able to demagogue the Republicans for not having a solution, allow all the rates to go up and blame the Republicans, and then, deal with the rates they want to deal with and say the Republicans want tax-cuts for the rich if they disagree with them.

Operating under that premise, there is no reason to negotiate with these people. Submit a budget, tell them to submit a budget and go to conference, which is how all of this should be dealt with. If the Republicans don’t offer an out front solution, paragraph one is the plan the Democrats have and, with the Democrat spin machine press, it will work in the short term. HOwever, in the long term, when people figure out that they’re all paying into the big money pit in Washington D.C., there may be some unanticipated screams from the electorate.

bflat879 on November 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM

UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM

The whole of Obamanomics is the 1100 pound Gorilla in the room not just the Fed but we had an election about that so time for less sophiticated methods like let the hammer they don’t feel now with the Fed printing money hit them and then maybe you can explain what the problems are with what the Democrats are doing. Right now it’s sleepy time and all is well in Obamaland with President Kardashian smiling on the TV.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM

onlineanalyst on November 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Patty Murray the new Senate Budget Chair (God help our souls)already said they ain’t pasing one anytime soon. In a sane world this is a problem and with a Democrat MSM complianing we dont have a budget in 1000 days doesn’t seem to make a difference.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Can we at least quit with adopting the moronic language of the left?

Seriously, a cliff? Just because it’s now a JournoTard meme we have to copy it? The thought of the United Piglets of America only stealing $700 billion from the grand children instead of $1.2 trillion is supposed to be jumping off a cliff?

Give me a flukeing break.

How about the real cliff of, “is it $20 trillion?” “Is it $22 trillion?”

MNHawk on November 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Or you let the shockwaves go through the economy so peolpe pick their head out of their a$$ and notice what the Democrats are doing and then you make the same deal you would have beforehand excpet the MSM has a harder time glorifying Democrats and Demonizing Republicans. I would add the panic that ensues would be a lot more leverage than you have now and the blame game shift to the left.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:11 AM

There will be a lot of massive earthquakes in the economy once the tax rates are increased on the job creators…

mnjg on November 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

The R’s could make a deal like: well instead of ‘tax increases for the wealthy’ we’ll just let the reduced rates expire for everyone and keep the debt ceiling in place.

That was the deal.

Let the President know that the only budget that will ever be considered in the House is a balanced one as he has gotten the deal he wanted the last time around.

Otherwise all spending in excess of revenue stops, and the House will see if the Senate would like to prioritize spending on the things government is given to do in the Constitution and just get those bases covered. And nothing beyond those is talked about until those things ARE covered.

There will be some left over!

Not a lot, no… but with the tax cuts expiring the government should be able to run on $2.44 trillion dollars. Service Debt. Do the necessary things stated in the Constitution. All of that costs less than $1 trillion. For the other $1.44 trillion can’t they figure out some way to at least cover SOME of the entitlements? You know, fund all of SSA and use the $560 billion left to do a bit with Medicare or just block grant that out to the States to figure out?

Oh, wait, that would be ‘entitlement reform’ done under the ‘debt ceiling’ and not spending more than you take in.

No Obamacare, alas.

*sniff* *sniff*

Takes guts to do that, unfortunately.

None in the R party leadership, that’s for damn sure.

ajacksonian on November 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

There will be a lot of massive earthquakes in the economy once the tax rates are increased on the job creators…

mnjg on November 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Time to stop trying to save the country from what it voted for and if the “job creators” can’t handle a 1-2 month raise in taxes what eggs do suppose we break to get this country back?

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Democrats hope their bill, which would need to pass only the House, can serve as a “down payment” this year in a deal that would include agreement on a mechanism to enact tax and entitlement reforms next year.

It’s always “next year” with the Democrats.

Want to bet that when the tax rate increases at the top end, by “next year” the Democrats will have developed amnesia?

GarandFan on November 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM

“downpayment”

lol, GOP getting themselves rolled again.

Midas on November 19, 2012 at 11:27 AM

GarandFan on November 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Quoting Lucy and the football gets old but even Reagan fell for the taxes now cuts later (never) trick.

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Time to stop trying to save the country from what it voted for and if the “job creators” can’t handle a 1-2 month raise in taxes what eggs do suppose we break to get this country back?

Conan on November 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM

The country will get back to us once the suffering is so big and they cannot handle it anymore… Remember that 7 millions of Obama voters from 2008 stayed home in 2012 because they did not want to vote for him as they have came to realize that he is a huge failure but at the same time they were reluctant to vote for a Republican… Now once the jobs creators are very badly hurt by tax increases and the economy will be in much wore shape than it is now then those seven million voters will have nowhere to go but to our side…

mnjg on November 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Is this why the Dow opened high and is @ +165, atm ??
I’m just hopelessly ignorant of what drives it, so I ask.

pambi on November 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Tax and entitlement reform?

Ha!
Ahahahahaha.!!
Bwhahahahahahahah!!!

Let it burn.

justltl on November 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Now once the jobs creators are very badly hurt by tax increases and the economy will be in much wore shape than it is now then those seven million voters will have nowhere to go but to our side…

mnjg on November 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Gee, I can think of another place for anyone that ever voted for Obama to go.

justltl on November 19, 2012 at 11:41 AM

There is no such thing as a meaningful commitment from the democrats.

GaltBlvnAtty on November 19, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Let the tax cuts expire.

Let sequestration happen.

Let the debt reach the ceiling.

Recipe for instant Balanced Budget. And the only thing it requires of Congress is that they work on their golf game…

JohnGalt23 on November 19, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Republicans will take the blame. Again.

Read my lips – “EFFU Corruptocrat Reid — $1 tax hike per $1 spending cut”

FlaMurph on November 19, 2012 at 11:50 AM

There’s one tax that the GOP had better not give in on, and that is the estate tax or “death tax.”
This is the most immoral and unfair tax that exists and should be abolished completely. Think about it… for one thing, all that money and property has already been taxed numerous times as it was being earned. And what if, say, something like a family farm had already been taxed many years ago when its original owner died and the farm was passed on to the current generation. Now, when the current owner dies, he has to pay that tax again when he leaves it to his heirs?
It’s tyranny at its worst.
UltimateBob on November 19, 2012 at 10:27 AM

The “death tax” which is certainly immoral but the income tax is every bit, if not more, immoral. The Constitution outlawed the income tax and Americans stupidly amended the Constitution to allow it based on assurances that it would only effect the “rich”.

iwasbornwithit on November 19, 2012 at 12:05 PM

promises for future politicians that haven’t even been elected is not a solution. you can only kick the can down the road for so long…

burserker on November 19, 2012 at 12:37 PM

“Democrats hope their bill, which would need to pass only the House, can serve as a “down payment” this year in a deal that would include agreement on a mechanism to enact tax and entitlement reforms next year.”

Next year, huh? What a surprise… tax hikes now for spending cuts later. Haven’t we been down this road many times before? The spending cuts and entitlement reform never seem to happen “next year”.

So here we are again with the Wimpy Method of fiscal policy. “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”

gravityman on November 19, 2012 at 12:42 PM

ajacksonian on November 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Your solution… which I would love to see… makes a huge false assumption. That being that the GOP actually wants to balance or cut the budget. Whether GOP or Dem, they are all politicians, and they all get fatter off the gov’t gravy train. It’s the whole reason we are in this mess to begin with, because the GOP was no better at shrinking government than the Dems.

And the proof of that is staring us in the face. Sequestration cuts all of 10% of the deficit, and about 2% of the total federal budget, and everyone (including the GOP) is running around trying to avoid that like it’s the apocalypse. If these f*cktards can’t even cut 2% of the budget without it being a crisis of epic proportions, how in the heck do we ever expect them to actually have a balanced budget?!

gravityman on November 19, 2012 at 1:04 PM

ED — You sound like you are ready to CAVE.

kara26 on November 19, 2012 at 1:09 PM

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