Hunch: Obama doesn’t want a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff

posted at 8:31 am on November 17, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

Everyone came away from the initial summit meeting between Obama, Boehner and Reid with big smiles and a public air of confidence that Friday’s kumbaya moment would lead to The Big Deal. Call me a cynic, but I’m still not buying it. Yesterday, AP touched on a part of this story, tossing out some ideas about how everyone – particularly Democrats – might walk away with relatively clean hands if no deal is reached on the fiscal cliff this year. It’s all true, but for some of us there’s a bit more to the story. The Democrats, for their part, seem to have plenty to gain and not much to lose.

Some Democrats are pushing an unorthodox idea for coping with the “fiscal cliff”: Let the government go over, temporarily at least, to give their party more bargaining leverage for changes later on.

The idea has plenty of skeptics, and the White House regards it frostily. But it illustrates the wide range of early negotiating positions being staked out by Republicans and Democrats as lawmakers gathered Tuesday for their first post-election talks on how to avoid the looming package of steep tax hikes and program cuts.

But why would this work for Barack Obama? Because – as we learned the hard way on election day – he can watch the polls with the best of them. And if this train goes off the rails he has reason to believe that he won’t be left holding the bag.

A new poll by Hart Research’s Geoff Garin, conducted for Americans for Tax Fairness — a group that wants the Bush-era tax cuts to end for those who earn more than $250,000 — found that a majority of voters cited changing the tax system as a key factor in their votes, and that the majority broke for President Barack Obama.

The survey also found that Democrats have changed the landscape on an issue that has eluded them for years — taxes. The survey found that most want the Bush-era cuts on top earners to expire, but that Republicans will shoulder blame if all of the Bush cuts, including those on the middle class, expire because a deal can’t be reached.

Basically, this works out to a win-win for Obama. Yes, he could look like the great peacemaker and try to strike some sort of grand bargain with Boehner. And if he did, he would likely get some of what he and the Democratic majority want in exchange for taking a slightly less than maximum raise on taxes for the most wealthy. But why?

If he takes a very hard line and forces the showdown to a collapse in discussions, several potentially positive (for him) results are baked into the cake. He can claim that Republicans refused a “balanced approach” and it’s their fault that everyone’s taxes went up. He then has the Democrats force a vote on a bill to only lower taxes on the middle class and the poor and just dares the GOP to vote against it. (They won’t.) At this point he has the tax / revenue increase he promised without giving up a single thing. Now the negotiations start anew to talk about “spending cuts” but the GOP’s major bargaining chip is gone. Obama gets to put up a far more shallow version of cuts, and if the Republicans don’t like it, they can choose to reject the deal and just let the deficit continue to skyrocket.

What Republican in their right mind could go for this? Perhaps more than we might think.

The Republican Party took the rap for the debt ceiling and is under suspicion for the fiscal cliff. A new Washington Post-Pew Research poll has 53 percent of Americans ready to blame Republicans if America actually goes over the edge and only 29 percent planning to point fingers at President Barack Obama.

Understanding this, thoughtful Republicans are feeling freer to risk the tea partiers’ wrath and cooperate with Democrats. The teams may disagree on much, but at least they’re now playing in the same ballpark.

How does that work? Fairly simple. Just as I’ve been saying since earlier this year, if you needed congressional action to raise taxes it would never happen. But in this case, to raise tax rates all you need is for Congress to do nothing. And when you need nothing done, there’s no better crack team than Congress. And once the taxes are up, even the GOP reps who have signed the Norquist pledge are free to sign a bill that lowers taxes… even if that doesn’t apply to the wealthy. They get to remain covered on their voting record in their home districts and blame the fallout on the Democrats.

Here’s the part where I reveal my secret strategy of how the GOP can thwart this plan and come out on top.

Hang on… there’s somebody at the door.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

They should throw out an outrageously leftist plan and see what happens.

tomas on November 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM

Right hunch, wrong player. It’s Dingy Harry that really doesn’t want a deal.

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 8:35 AM

wait…but Obama said the defense sequesters wouldn’t happen! Obama don’t lie

Slade73 on November 17, 2012 at 8:35 AM

Damn you, AP, because I know you’ve nailed this:

But in this case, to raise tax rates all you need is for Congress to do nothing. And when you need nothing done, there’s no better crack team than Congress.

We. Are. Phuqued.

/SMH

Wanderlust on November 17, 2012 at 8:36 AM

Doesn’t it make you proud to be an American . . . they’re all a bunch of self serving dipsticks.

rplat on November 17, 2012 at 8:36 AM

Or, as I’ve said before and will say again, we’ve been Bo(eh)ned again.

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 8:36 AM

Cloward – Piven

trs on November 17, 2012 at 8:38 AM

But why would this work for Barack Obama? … And if this train goes off the rails he has reason to believe that he won’t be left holding the bag.

Going for a third term?

Glenn Jericho on November 17, 2012 at 8:38 AM

Hang on… there’s somebody at the door.

lol

NorthernCross on November 17, 2012 at 8:40 AM

Envy and spite: terrible afflictions!

OldEnglish on November 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Right now, today, not tomorrow, but today, the Republicans need to start working on their counter-message for this event. They need to make a concrete proposal, instead of the vague outline that Democrats are good at providing. They should only deal with specifics so, provide your plan and do not deal with the Democrats until they provide theirs. Then you have the message.

bflat879 on November 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Damn you, AP, because I know you’ve nailed this:

But in this case, to raise tax rates all you need is for Congress to do nothing. And when you need nothing done, there’s no better crack team than Congress.

We. Are. Phuqued.

/SMH

Wanderlust on November 17, 2012 at 8:36 AM

True – author was Jazz, though…not AP.

22044 on November 17, 2012 at 8:44 AM

so basically, the republicans should have allowed the tax cuts on the rich to expire at the end of 2010, right after they secured the house. instead, obama has always held the trump card… taxing the rich will fix the economy and solve the deficit. we should have called his bluff from the start and left him with nothing to run on.

dbilly76 on November 17, 2012 at 8:44 AM

The defense cuts were aimed at an incoming Republican Administration in 2013. Defense cuts plus boom equals blame for the Administration in charge. Since that Administration is now his own, he can fully eat his own foreign policy failures. Bin Laden’s own path to 9-11 started at embassy attacks.

Sekhmet on November 17, 2012 at 8:45 AM

I disagree with Jazz 100%. First of all, there will be a deal. You can take that to the bank. Secondly, Obama wants a deal. The buck stops with him and if the economy goes over a cliff, the fingers will be pointing at him. So there will definitely be a deal.

SoulGlo on November 17, 2012 at 8:48 AM

the fingers will be pointing at him. So there will definitely be a deal.

SoulGlo on November 17, 2012 at 8:48 AM

glass half full person ;)

I’ve seen no less than 1000 articles blaming the GOP already. For Goodness sakes they control 1/2 of 1/3 of the Gov

Slade73 on November 17, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Regardless of Obama getting re-elected (not trying to minimize it) there is not all this love out there for Obama. In the media, yes, In America, no.
60,000,000 people voted against him. He only won by 3,000,00 votes and that was fewer than last time. And he ran against a moderate who made working with the enemy, Democrats (the people who rammed ObamaCare down our throats) the center piece of his campaign.

Quite frankly, Obama’s best days are behind him. No, I do not mean it’s going to be all wine and roses for America. But this next 4 years sure aren’t going to be like his last 4 years. His biggest victory, ObamaCare, hasn’t yet taken effect, but it’s coming like a sledge hammer on the vast majority of us. It was never wanted by Americans. But soon, even those preople who think it’s no big deal are going to suddenly have their lives disrupted by it. Then you have taxes. Then you have higher and higher rising prices. Then when he announces all of our nukes have been dismantled… well. God help us all.

But 2 years from now, 10 months after ObamaCare hits America there are going to be congressional elections. But of course, unless we start having a serious discussion about voter fraud it isn’t going to matter who runs or how unhappy the country is, the Democrat is going to win. Voter fraud is as much of a scandal as any of these other scandals! Voter fraud is has the potential to destroy the very heart of our Democracy.

60,000,000 people voted against Obama! They need to turn their despair into activism. We need House hearings on voter fraud!

JellyToast on November 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM

I don’t believe for one minute the Democrats could come up with a fiscal plan that will restore prosperity to the United States, but it seems that Republican push back is a losing proposition. Since the polls suggest that the Republicans will be blamed for any perceived obstruction to the so called “balanced approach” I would say that Boehner should tell the country that America has spoken during the past election and the House is prepared to give Obama whatever he wants. I feel at this point there should not be any doubt as to who owns the economy from this point forward. And frankly, the American electorate needs to be responsible for their own poor decision on November 6. There is a good reason for divided government but apparently it’s (perhaps less than cordial) benefits is now beyond the comprehension of the American public. There is no one from the Republican Party in the current elected leadership in Congress who is charismatic and articulate enough to argue against Obama’s irresponsible policies with any consistent success.

DaveDief on November 17, 2012 at 8:55 AM

The $800 billion stimulus is now part of the budget every year rather than being a one time measure. Why can’t we demand that much in cuts as an opening offer? Even if we don’t go over this small cliff a much larger one looms if we can’t stop the damn spending.

Charlemagne on November 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM

Basically, this works out to a win-win for Obama.

Nancy is already pointing fingers at the Republicans. They idiots that watch mainstream media will buy that the evil Republicans would rather tax the middle class, than raise rates on the evil “rich” and Obama skates… again.

Show us the budget cuts. I want to know exactly what and where the budget is being cut. Change the discussion to budget cuts.

Hang on… there’s somebody at the door.

Oh dear, and so close to the holidays. Where do you want the care packages sent, Jazz?

Fallon on November 17, 2012 at 9:00 AM

To hell with it. Give him the tax increases on the wealthy. That’s what the voter’s want real bad? Give it to ‘em real bad. The economy will continue to drag, full time jobs will disappear. Minorities will see their “chocolate rations” shrink, but they’ll get a new shiny phone so that’ll mollify ‘em. Obama doesn’t care, but the rest of the Dems will pay. Taxes will rise on everyone when it becomes obvious that the rich aren’t rich enough, or that they’re more adept at hiding their money. Look to California and Illinois for what is coming. The middle east is on the verge of war, China and Russia are testing the limits of our “smart power” strategy. It’ll be a grim future by the ’16 elections.

tpitman on November 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

I disagree with Jazz 100%. First of all, there will be a deal. You can take that to the bank. Secondly, Obama wants a deal. The buck stops with him and if the economy goes over a cliff, the fingers will be pointing at him. So there will definitely be a deal.

SoulGlo on November 17, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Agreed. It’s a looooooooooong way til the midterms. If they were in a month, then yes it makes political sense for Obama and the Dems to let us go over the cliff and attempt to pin the blame on the GOP. But there will be a full 22 months from January til November 2014, and whatever initial rage the public may have toward the Republicans will shift quickly to the incumbent party. To send the country into a deep recession or worse while gutting the military is insane for the Democrats’ future electoral prospects.

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

DaveDief on November 17, 2012 at 8:55 AM

I agree. Republicans seem incapable of pushing back against the Democrats’ media supported lies about “fair share” and “balanced approach” so just get out of the way and let the Dems wreak as much havoc as possible.

Idiots who pay no income taxes demand that the rich, >$250,000, pay their “fair share”. What a joke. The IRS figures are publicly available but people just don’t care as long as they don’t have to pay and they reap the benefits of an increase on someone else.

All you can do at this point is protect yourself financially as best as possible and get out of the way.

Charlemagne on November 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

the solution is to find small business owners affected by this tax hike and get them in front of a camera to tell their story

we’ll never win the argument if we don’t make the argument

commodore on November 17, 2012 at 9:06 AM

The GOP had the chance to embrace Simpson-Boyles… they would have won the election if they had.

ninjapirate on November 17, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Where’s my free stuff? I’m going to call my Republican congressman (Cantor) if I don’t start getting my free stuff. Who’s got my phone and where’s my house? Dammit, I want answers!

ExpressoBold on November 17, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Bin Laden’s own path to 9-11 started at embassy attacks.

Sekhmet on November 17, 2012 at 8:45 AM

This will be interesting to watch. All I can say is I’m glad I live in a very rural place.

There is no one from the Republican Party in the current elected leadership in Congress who is charismatic and articulate enough to argue against Obama’s irresponsible policies with any consistent success.

DaveDief on November 17, 2012 at 8:55 AM

You know the person who I really liked hearing despite his foreign policy wonkiness was Ron Paul.
And I like Rand Paul.
But people in this country are not addressing the real problem & that is the mass ignorance & indoctrination that has occurred over decades.
The people of this country do not know their history, do not understand the principles of their founding, and have embraced communism bcs the communists made it into a silly boogey man word that many do not take seriously.
They call it socialism & that’s the back door approach for communism.

Badger40 on November 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

I disagree with Jazz 100%. First of all, there will be a deal. You can take that to the bank. Secondly, Obama wants a deal. The buck stops with him and if the economy goes over a cliff, the fingers will be pointing at him. So there will definitely be a deal.

SoulGlo on November 17, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Nope. They will blame “obstructionist” Republicans.

The GOP needs to run ads explaining the math and how this harms Americans. We cannot win with the MSM. We need to get the truth out via ad buys tv/radio/print/social meda/everywhere. Think of this as the last battle to save America and fund it accordingly.

Buy Danish on November 17, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Let it go over the cliff. The Fascist-Democrat plan for tax hikes won’t work, we’ll have four more years of depression. Let them own it.

rbj on November 17, 2012 at 9:10 AM

The GOP had the chance to embrace Simpson-Boyles… they would have won the election if they had.

ninjapirate on November 17, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Like the average voter(especially Obama supporters) would’ve had a clue what Simpson-Bowles even was?

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:10 AM

He then has the Democrats force a vote on a bill to only lower taxes on the middle class and the poor and just dares the GOP to vote against it. (They won’t.)

Oh, I don’t know. If the Republicans amended that bill to add a repeal of all Obamacare mandates taxes they might find Dems less eager to vote on the new and improved bill to lower middle class taxes.

Because they want to LOOK like they are against taxes for the middle class — while taxing the middle class out of existence.

CJ on November 17, 2012 at 9:10 AM

All you can do at this point is protect yourself financially as best as possible and get out of the way.

Charlemagne on November 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

I feel that’s the only strategy personally right now I can follow.

Badger40 on November 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM

We need House hearings on voter fraud!

JellyToast on November 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM

They had comprehensive hearings on how communists had infiltrated our government back in the day, with tons of evidence.
Look how that turned out.
IT’s a circus.
I believe they may just all be in this together to suck things dry.

Badger40 on November 17, 2012 at 9:13 AM

There will be enough reps to go along with the dems.
Cut spending? Pffffffffft! Not happening. Spending is all they do.
Big Bird has a guaranteed lifetime job.

racquetballer on November 17, 2012 at 9:15 AM

What DaveD said. Republicans should vote “Present” on the tax and budget proposals.

2klbofun on November 17, 2012 at 9:15 AM

Where’s my free stuff? I’m going to call my Republican congressman (Cantor) if I don’t start getting my free stuff. Who’s got my phone and where’s my house? Dammit, I want answers!

ExpressoBold on November 17, 2012 at 9:08 AM

You know all this talk about people wanting their free stuff reminded me of an SNL skit a long time ago that talked about that(only back then they were kidding). It turns out I wasn’t crazy. They really did do this skit back during the ’92 election:

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/92/92anightline.phtml

It’s sad how far we’ve fallen in only 20 years.

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:15 AM

According to the average life expectancy table for my state I have about 4 1/2 years left. If I can hang in there for about that many years they can take this screwed up country and shove it.

rplat on November 17, 2012 at 9:16 AM

One huge failure on part of GOP and Romney/Ryan has been the inexplicable inability to inform voters that ObamaCare already hikes taxes on “the rich” who earn more than $200,000 a year.

Buy Danish on November 17, 2012 at 9:18 AM

I don’t want to read ANY poll unless it has a breakdown between races. Thank you Exit Polling. Right now, it wouldn’t matter how idiotic the program, if it looks like it Obama’s idea, then the overall polls will be in his favor, just like the election.

The unfortunate situation that this administration is a race issue amongst a large enough voting block to skew any and all random sample polls makes polling a waste of time and focus.

redhead on November 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Prediction time – there will be a four-part deal announced in mid-January:

- All non-defense sequesters will be nullified. The defense sequesters will stay.
- There will be a 2-year return of the Bush-era tax rates for those making less than $200,000 ($250,000 married filing jointly), which will be sold as a tax “cut” because the Clinton rates will have kicked in on January 1.
- In exchange for a 2-year resumption of the FICA/SECA SocSecurity tax holiday and a permanent increase in SocSecurity benefits for the “poor”, the SocSecurity cap will be permanently lifted only on the tax side. Again, it will be sold as a tax “cut” because it will have expired on January 1.
- The debt ceiling will go up just enough (in the neighborhood of $2.3 trillion) in order to kick that can down the road until late 2014-early 2015.

Bo(eh)ned again.

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Understanding this, thoughtful Republicans are feeling freer to risk the tea partiers’ wrath and cooperate with Democrats. The teams may disagree on much, but at least they’re now playing in the same ballpark.

I hope they do this – the future of this nation depends upon every Tea Partier finally coming to grips with the reality that the GOP can do nothing for the smaller government cause.

Just another kick in the face to the TP – and eventually they’ll get tired of being beaten by GOP Ayatollahs and throw the ba$tards out or make their own party.

HondaV65 on November 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

Pfft, all Republicans need to do is to expose the Dims strateegery. Thus,”Apparently the president feels that, by doing nothing, he will get what he believes will solve our fiscal problems, higher taxes on the everyone. We shall see.”

Knott Buyinit on November 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM

Charlemagne on November 17, 2012 at 9:05 AM

That’s the course I am following at this point. I have no choice.

Philly on November 17, 2012 at 9:21 AM

I forgot to mention that the SocSecurity cap on the benefits side will be frozen at the 2013 levels and no longer adjusted for inflation. In other words, only the first $113,700 you make in each year after this year will count toward your benefit calculations.

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 9:26 AM

One huge failure on part of GOP and Romney/Ryan has been the inexplicable inability to inform voters that ObamaCare already hikes taxes on “the rich” who earn more than $200,000 a year.

Buy Danish on November 17, 2012 at 9:18 AM

They focused on the rise in health care premiums, but they should’ve covered the entire range of destructive elements within Obamacare. The layoffs, the reduction in hours for existing employees, tax hikes on the middle class(with specific examples), and the pending shortage of doctors.

In retrospect, they really should’ve run a far more negative campaign. Not in terms of attacking Obama, but rather in terms of scaring the crap out of voters(with as sunny a demeanor as possible) so they understood the ramifications of 4 more years. Remember that part of Palin’s 2008 convention speech where she told everyone Obama’s real agenda? We needed that every day on the campaign trail.

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Let it burn

astonerii on November 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

Right now, today, not tomorrow, but today, the Republicans need to start working on their counter-message for this event. They need to make a concrete proposal, instead of the vague outline that Democrats are good at providing. They should only deal with specifics so, provide your plan and do not deal with the Democrats until they provide theirs. Then you have the message.

bflat879 on November 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM

And who would carry that message to the people? Fox? Hannity? Rush?

Most people will hear about it from the Traitorous MSM.

If the GOP came out and said “We are starting a program to save puppies!” the TMSM would report “The GOP showed a startling lack of concern for adult dogs today as they released a plan that would only save puppies. They just don’t care about adult dogs apparently.”

If the DemoRATS came out and said “We are starting a program to KILL OFF puppies!” the TMSM would report “The Democrats made great strides in controlling our exploding pet population today. They will be saving Humane Societies and PETA millions of dollars.”

I personally feel for the House Republicans. People still believe they are the reason we don’t have a budget, that they made no concrete proposals for healthcare reform, that they are the party of “no”. When that’s all false narrative carried to the people by the TMSM.

That’s why I think the House Republicans should vote present and let the Dems do what Obama is asking and when the economy is in depression in two years, hit him hard in all the races. Then, at campaign time, when voters memory of right now is hazy, use ads to say “We cooperated with President Obama and the Democrats, because as voters you asked us to, now look where that got us! $18 Trillion in debt and in a deep depresssion!”

PastorJon on November 17, 2012 at 9:28 AM

a. Bleed it.

b. Starve it.

c. Burn it.

Midas on November 17, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Why do you care what the “public” thinks, the lesson of 2012 is that defending your interests against the supposed threat of other americans is the solution. Don’t take a deal and focus on protecting your own. Then see what happens.

rob verdi on November 17, 2012 at 9:28 AM

It’s sad how far we’ve fallen in only 20 years.

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:15 AM

.
My word! It was topical at the time (free stuff) and the SNL skit made fun of media coziness with Democrat candidates, too. Twenty years on and it’s the same mentality but more prevalent! Wow!

ExpressoBold on November 17, 2012 at 9:29 AM

OT/ from Drudge

“Obama Consults With MSNBC Host Al Sharpton, and Other ‘Civil Rights Leaders,’ on Fiscal Talks”

Seriously??…reeeally??

O.K… NOW does anyone still doubt where his loyalties are?

Mimzey on November 17, 2012 at 9:30 AM

To just summarize, it won’t matter what the Republicans say or do, except to the small portion of people who pay attention, like us.

To liberals and the vast (70-80%) of the public, the GOP could negotiate a deal to save the country and they wouldn’t care or hear about it.

We have a media wrapped up in the salacious details of Petraeus’ affair, but watch how they suddenly don’t care what he has to say when he testifies on how Obama F’d up Benghazi.

The media has never been more in the tank for an agenda.

PastorJon on November 17, 2012 at 9:33 AM

That’s why I think the House Republicans should vote present and let the Dems do what Obama is asking and when the economy is in depression in two years, hit him hard in all the races. Then, at campaign time, when voters memory of right now is hazy, use ads to say “We cooperated with President Obama and the Democrats, because as voters you asked us to, now look where that got us! $18 Trillion in debt and in a deep depresssion!”

PastorJon on November 17, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Yet, to follow along, using roughly your own words…

And who is going to carry that ‘we cooperated with Obama’ message – Fox? Hannity? Rush? Or what is the message that you know will be carried by the ‘Traitorous MSM’ to ‘most people’?

As you rightly say, it doesn’t matter what they do, the message ‘most people’ will hear is *not* that the problem has anything to do with Obama/Dems, but as always, it’s the GOP’s fault.

Help, don’t help.
Propose plans, don’t propose plans.
Cooperate, don’t cooperate.
Say yes, say no.

Does it matter?

Midas on November 17, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Everything is based on the assumption that the Democrats DON’T want the economy to collapse. Could it be that they actually DO want it to collapse? (rhetorical question…)

oldleprechaun on November 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Why would the left want a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff? (1)They get the huge increase in revenue to spend as carelessly as they have in the past by letting the Bush tax cuts expire; (2)they cut military spending to starvation levels, manna from heaven for a Democrat; and (3)they’re not worried about the domestic cuts that are part of sequestration. Why aren’t they worried? Because they know the 47%, commonly referred to as the sheeple, will scream and holler like stuck pigs if their handouts are cut and the uproar will be so great that congress will have to give it back and leave the military cuts intact. This is like Christmas for the left.

Who cares if the country goes over the cliff? The left are experts at blaming the Republicans for causing the problems that the Dems created.

iamsaved on November 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Let it burn. I’ve got most of my paperwork done and ready to file for my VA application to put me back in college. I’m quitting my position in the Spring for good and going to try to be a “full time student” for a while. I think I can do it for about four years with the education benefits I have left.

Liberals can pay me to sit on my butt a while.

HondaV65 on November 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM

I am so sure now that you are not what you say you are. If you’re a Conservative TPers, I’ll eat my hat. You are such a full of shit Moby it’s not funny. You did nothing but depress the voter enthusiasim in the run up to the elections and now your every comment lends itself to obstructing any manner of coalesing of Conservatives.

And if by some quirk of reality you are a “Conservative” let me just offer that I think you’re the dumbest son of a b!tch on the planet.

hawkdriver on November 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

To hell with it. Give him the tax increases on the wealthy. That’s what the voter’s want real bad? Give it to ‘em real bad. The economy will continue to drag, full time jobs will disappear. Minorities will see their “chocolate rations” shrink, but they’ll get a new shiny phone so that’ll mollify ‘em. Obama doesn’t care, but the rest of the Dems will pay. Taxes will rise on everyone when it becomes obvious that the rich aren’t rich enough, or that they’re more adept at hiding their money. Look to California and Illinois for what is coming. The middle east is on the verge of war, China and Russia are testing the limits of our “smart power” strategy. It’ll be a grim future by the ’16 elections.

tpitman on November 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

I disagree. No matter how bad the economy gets, the GOP will get the blame. Just look at the last four years. Heck, even when the Dims had complete control in Barky”s first two years, they were blaming “obstructionist Republicans” for everything that didn’t work. That’s how they operate.

chewmeister on November 17, 2012 at 9:35 AM

…we’re phucked!
we have Boner as a leader for the Republican spendthrifts.

KOOLAID2 on November 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

In other words, only the first $113,700 you make in each year after this year will count toward your benefit calculations.

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 9:26 AM

.
WAIT! Do I still get my COLA? I want my COLA!

ExpressoBold on November 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

WAIT! Do I still get my COLA? I want my COLA!

ExpressoBold on November 17, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Depends. Are you on the lower end of the scale (full wage-adjusted COLA) or upper end (perhaps inflation-adjusted COLA if you’re lucky)?

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM

The GOP has got to draft a plan and SELL IT.

We are so terrible at selling our side.

gophergirl on November 17, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Let it burn

astonerii on November 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM

You’re ex-military too. Get your ass in school.

hawkdriver on November 17, 2012 at 9:43 AM

The slob Warren Buffett helped the democratics push through their class warfare. Let’s put the slob’s tax returns on the table or a reasonable facsimile, and his secretary’s, and find a way to screw the crap out of him, not his secretary, and not the owners of small businesses that we want to create jobs.

Win all around!

slickwillie2001 on November 17, 2012 at 9:44 AM

PastorJon on November 17, 2012 at 9:28 AM

I clicked and read your ‘Open Letter’
Good stuff and I will be sharing it.
Thanks

bridgetown on November 17, 2012 at 9:44 AM

I disagree. No matter how bad the economy gets, the GOP will get the blame. Just look at the last four years. Heck, even when the Dims had complete control in Barky”s first two years, they were blaming “obstructionist Republicans” for everything that didn’t work. That’s how they operate.

chewmeister on November 17, 2012 at 9:35 AM

But it didn’t work in the 2010 midterms and it won’t work in 2014. Unless the Dems can demonize a specific individual(Bush, Romney) at the national level, they have a hard time winning these elections.

2016 could be a different story since the GOP will have a Presidential nominee the Dems can try to trash, but that’s gonna be a tough sell to 50.1% of the electorate if we’re looking at 8 years of an Obama recession/depression.

I say let it burn if that’s what the Dems want. If there is a deal on the table involving tax hikes on “the rich”, get it done. Take the talking point of “revenue” off the table once and for all.

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Depends.

.
I don’t need them but it’s mighty pejorative of you mention it.
.

Are you on the lower end of the scale (full wage-adjusted COLA) or upper end (perhaps inflation-adjusted COLA if you’re lucky)?

Steve Eggleston on November 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM

.
How would I know? Is there a numeric code that tells me or do I have to ask a bureaucrat?

ExpressoBold on November 17, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Fiscal cliff? Whatever. In other news, obama heads off to Asia today for his first post-election vacation!

Tropical breezes, sun, golf, massages, fish pedicures, fine food and drink … BUT, obama realizes that times are tough, so this will only be a three day trip – we all need to cut back, you know.

Pork-Chop on November 17, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Damn you, AP, because I know you’ve nailed this:

But in this case, to raise tax rates all you need is for Congress to do nothing. And when you need nothing done, there’s no better crack team than Congress.

We. Are. Phuqued.

/SMH

Wanderlust on November 17, 2012 at 8:36 AM

I knew from the headline this was not AP or ed.

CW on November 17, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Give Obama and the Dems whatever they want.
They are going to get it anyway, one way or the other.
Let Obama and the Dems totally own it, like they do Obamacare.
Let the public live the results and decide whether that’s the country they desire.
It’s the only way to shine a light on these cockroaches- both the Dems and their evil, slothfully avaricious constituency.

justltl on November 17, 2012 at 9:47 AM

I am so sure now that you are not what you say you are. If you’re a Conservative TPers, I’ll eat my hat. You are such a full of shit Moby it’s not funny. You did nothing but depress the voter enthusiasim in the run up to the elections and now your every comment lends itself to obstructing any manner of coalesing of Conservatives.

And if by some quirk of reality you are a “Conservative” let me just offer that I think you’re the dumbest son of a b!tch on the planet.

hawkdriver on November 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

The dumbass admitted voting for little Bammie during the post-election celebrations.

I’ve seen more than one troll around here trying to recover themselves with the ‘concerned conservative’ mantle since then.

slickwillie2001 on November 17, 2012 at 9:47 AM

2016 could be a different story since the GOP will have a Presidential nominee the Dems can try to trash, but that’s gonna be a tough sell to 50.1% of the electorate if we’re looking at 8 years of an Obama recession/depression.

I say let it burn if that’s what the Dems want. If there is a deal on the table involving tax hikes on “the rich”, get it done. Take the talking point of “revenue” off the table once and for all.

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 9:45 AM

It won’t matter. As for proof, review what took place a week and a half ago. 50+% don’t care how bad things are. They will still vote for the Dims who give them their free stuff.

chewmeister on November 17, 2012 at 9:50 AM

By the way, as many of you suspected, the federal government’s calculations of who comprises ‘the poor’ is a sliding scale which ensures that there will always be those that they can claim are poor and need government charity.

The new “supplemental” poverty line is a complicated measure produced by formulas that are barely understood by poverty experts. It takes into account in-kind government benefits, which is fine, and regional costs-of-living. But at its core it is a deception: it measures not absolute poverty but relative poverty–i.e. inequality.

slickwillie2001 on November 17, 2012 at 9:51 AM

hawkdriver on November 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Ouch.You’re sounding a bit like me in your treatment of that idiot.

………………………………..

Also, I think we all should at least consider going full tilt lib freeloader. I can go work some simpleton job 30 hours a week and collect all the “gifts” and live ok. What the heck. L.I.B.
/

CW on November 17, 2012 at 9:51 AM

You’re ex-military too. Get your ass in school.

hawkdriver on November 17, 2012 at 9:43 AM

I burned my college allowance by having too many migraines to get past a two year degree. Now that I am more able to go to school, they are refusing to let me go back with assistance :) Miss one class, best grade a B, 2 a C 3 a D and 4 an F. College sucks.

astonerii on November 17, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Every Republican should vote “present”. It shows disagreement without an outright “no”.

libertarianlunatic on November 17, 2012 at 9:54 AM

I disagree with Jazz 100%. First of all, there will be a deal. You can take that to the bank. Secondly, Obama wants a deal. The buck stops with him and if the economy goes over a cliff, the fingers will be pointing at him. So there will definitely be a deal.

SoulGlo on November 17, 2012 at 8:48 AM

When did this start?

Alabama Infidel on November 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM

tpitman on November 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Agreed.

Let Obama raise taxes on the job producers. Let ObamaCare taxes hammer the economy. This is what 51% of the voters wanted, so give it to them.

Let. It. Burn.

MidniteRambler on November 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Democrats have a reason not to destroy the economy and have massive firings so people get on the government tit?

I’d like to hear one.

Wagthatdog on November 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM

As long as Republicans fear being called names more than they fear socialism, they will continue to lose. As long as they love their warm chairs more then they love freedom, justice and the rule of law, they will continue to lose.

Many great things have risen from the ashes. Many times in history defeat birthed great victories. Determination and persistence has won more than once where strength and numbers were weak.

The GOP has more power than they realize but they lack leadership. The Union Army never barely won a blasted battle until Lincoln appointed General Grant. General Lee did more with less until he faced a real leader in General Grant. We need leadership in the GOP. How we get that, I do not know. But we do not lack the resources, even though we only have the House. We have Governors and we have plenty of red states and God knows we still have 60,000,000 voters who said no to Obama. But do we have leaders? Can any good still come out of the RNC?

JellyToast on November 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM

We are really stupid. e are fighting the 2008/2010/2012 battles.

We have a new battle. Dems are waging all out war for 2014.

If we ‘go over the fiscal cliff’, they blame Obstructionist Republicans.

You don’t have to The Mentalist to see this.

faraway on November 17, 2012 at 9:57 AM

Give Obama and the Dems whatever they want.
They are going to get it anyway, one way or the other.
Let Obama and the Dems totally own it, like they do Obamacare.
Let the public live the results and decide whether that’s the country they desire.
It’s the only way to shine a light on these cockroaches- both the Dems and their evil, slothfully avaricious constituency.

justltl on November 17, 2012 at 9:47 AM

…you must be counting on the media reporting all this?

KOOLAID2 on November 17, 2012 at 9:58 AM

(Sorry, Jazz, I’m used to AP writing these kinds of posts lol)

Wanderlust on November 17, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Wasn’t it JugEars plan all along to collapse the economy ala Cloward-Piven?

sandspur on November 17, 2012 at 10:00 AM

The GOP has more power than they realize but they lack leadership. The Union Army never barely won a blasted battle until Lincoln appointed General Grant. General Lee did more with less until he faced a real leader in General Grant. We need leadership in the GOP. How we get that, I do not know. But we do not lack the resources, even though we only have the House. We have Governors and we have plenty of red states and God knows we still have 60,000,000 voters who said no to Obama. But do we have leaders? Can any good still come out of the RNC?

JellyToast on November 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM

….THIS…^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!

KOOLAID2 on November 17, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Jazz you do not get it….

and I’m glad that means most democrats don’t either….

GOP nation WANTS the cliff to happen.

Bring back the Beijing Billy tax rates….

bring ‘em ALL back.

Let it burn.

harlekwin15 on November 17, 2012 at 10:01 AM

No the American people and the GOP stay at homes decided that Ogabe is safe and no different than Mitt.

“Okay”

Watch this I am done politicking to get in Obarka lenin’s way.

Show me Barry Tax us to heaven buddy.

harlekwin15 on November 17, 2012 at 10:03 AM

They know what their goal is… Alinsky told them

The goal is to foment enough public discontent, moral confusion, and outright chaos to spark the social upheaval that Marx, Engels, and Lenin predicted

— a revolution whose foot soldiers view the status quo as fatally flawed and wholly unworthy of salvation. Thus, the theory goes, the people will settle for nothing less than that status quo’s complete collapse

— to be followed by the erection of an entirely new system upon its ruins. Toward that end, they will be apt to follow the lead of charismatic radical organizers

Do we know? Complete collapse.

faraway on November 17, 2012 at 10:04 AM

Just F’ing STOP this insanity. DO NOT make decisions and decide votes based on some BS pulling in 2012, considering the implications for 2016. That is lunacy.

The #1 culprit in the failure of Republicans to do well in 2012 is the goddam Mainstream Media. And here we are listening to the same a-holes that carried Obama to victory in the first place.

JUST.STOP.

Over the cliff and stay there. I don’t give a fig WHAT the media says, what the polls say, or what Obama says. THIS is the deal Obama and Congress made. PERIOD.

Everybody’s taxes go up. Yes. Spending cuts are forced. Yes.

Done, over. And when the economy goes completely belly up, then Republicans can offer real solutions. Even IF they try to pass some bill for tax cuts on those making under $250K, that will have absolutely no effect on things.

This is such a waste of time.

deadrody on November 17, 2012 at 10:04 AM

The survey found that most want the Bush-era cuts on top earners to expire, but that Republicans will shoulder blame if all of the Bush cuts, including those on the middle class, expire because a deal can’t be reached.

We saw this in Kalifornia this year in the recent election. One Proposition increased taxes on ‘the evil rich’ and would (hopefully) generate $6 billion “for the children”. Yeah, but there’s a loophole the Democrats in Sacramento can drive a truck through and take the money for other purposes. Another, similar Proposition would have raised everyone’s taxes and generated $10 Billion “for the children”. The language of the Proposition specified that the funds collected could only be used for education.

RAISE MY TAXES?! So the sheeple voted to just screw the rich. Prediction: When this Proposition doesn’t generate the amount of money desired, look for another Proposition in 2 years to screw the rich even more.

GarandFan on November 17, 2012 at 10:06 AM

An addict won’t change until they hit rock bottom, and neither will the USA. The republicans should just vote present, let the tax hikes (which won’t do a damn thing for the deficit) go into effect. The only way to finance the debt will be through inflation and that’s the only way the 47% will start to understand the administrations destructive policies. We can’t keep holding the bag on the negative effects of this administrations policies.

RizzyG on November 17, 2012 at 10:07 AM

The republicans should just vote present, let the tax hikes (which won’t do a damn thing for the deficit) go into effect.

RizzyG on November 17, 2012 at 10:07 AM

I agree. I like the ‘preset’ angle. A few blue state members would have to vote yes. We would have to agree to give them cover during re-election.

faraway on November 17, 2012 at 10:10 AM

oops, present. (need a new keyboard)

faraway on November 17, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Give them whatever they want and when everything goes to crap they will still blame Republicans. Why pretend they won’t?

Wagthatdog on November 17, 2012 at 10:12 AM

The Republican Party took the rap for _________.

Four primary reasons why the gop is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

1. They don’t control the media.
And how can they at this point. We need to support any efforts to build a new media complex. Fox is too infected now at this point to save. Murdoch and Ailes know how to read the handwriting on the wall.

2. They don’t have anyone that can effectively communicate Conservative values. I thought we had one on August 29, 2008 but she took a pass on defeating the greatest threat to individual liberty since WWII. So now, I don’t see one.

3. Their leadership doesn’t really mind having a bigger and bigger Federal government.
This is why Boehner can yuck it up on the golf course with Biden and Obama, because it’s all just a game.

4. Amnesty will finally turn the entire U.S. into California.

Without a secure southern border millions more Illegals from Mexico will cross the border and Texas will be become the new DARK BLUE California. Once the gop loses Texas it’s over officially. Look at the results you Beyonce republicans. In 1986 there were 3 million illegals. Now 26 years later with an open border there are 7 times that number and we’re going to do it all over again? HUH?

They might as well give Obama everything he wants now and save us all this time. The one thing that I would fight/call the Congress/write emails, etc. is over AMNESTY. That is ball game.

After that we don’t come back from TEATERMERICA.

The only thing that won’t have happened at that point is physically seizing the property of the wealthy “winners of lifes’ lottery”.

PappyD61 on November 17, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Give them whatever they want and when everything goes to crap they will still blame Republicans. Why pretend they won’t?

Wagthatdog on November 17, 2012 at 10:12 AM

The ‘present’ vote solves this. Plus it gives the added mock factor.

faraway on November 17, 2012 at 10:14 AM

It won’t matter. As for proof, review what took place a week and a half ago. 50+% don’t care how bad things are. They will still vote for the Dims who give them their free stuff.

chewmeister on November 17, 2012 at 9:50 AM

That’s because things haven’t gotten anywhere near as bad as they will over the next 4 years. Take our current economic situation and tack on another $4-6 trillion in debt, higher taxes, higher unemployment, higher energy prices, higher premiums, and more people uninsured. Think the Democrat nominee in 2016 will still manage to garner 51% of the vote by blaming Bush?

Doughboy on November 17, 2012 at 10:14 AM

If we ‘go over the fiscal cliff’, they blame Obstructionist Republicans.

You don’t have to The Mentalist to see this.

faraway

And if we don’t, the dems will get credit for saving the world in spite of obstructionist republicans, so we have noting to lose. Let’s try fighting back for once instead of surrendering.

xblade on November 17, 2012 at 10:16 AM

The House should refuse to raise the debt ceiling and demand the following as part of the deal to raise it: 1) Repeal of HR3962 in its entirety. 2) No tax increases. Might as well go for it now.

And it’s not as if this is some huge victory, even if it was accepted. All that it would mean is that we’re exactly at the same point we are now, and with an even bigger debt.

The GOP will cave. 100%. Bet on it. All that matters at the end of the day is the next election cycle and some expensive drinks and eats at swank DC watering holes.

Borgcube on November 17, 2012 at 10:17 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3