Rasmussen: 54% now call themselves pro-choice, 38% pro-life

posted at 9:30 pm on November 15, 2012 by Allahpundit

Wait a sec, you say. Didn’t Gallup find just six months ago that the number who describe themselves as “pro-choice” was at a record low? Indeed they did.

But as the saying goes, my friends: Elections have consequences.

More voters than ever now identify themselves as pro-choice when it comes to abortion, and most rate the issue as important to how they vote.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows that 54% describe themselves as pro-choice on the issue of abortion, while 38% say they are pro-life.

Let’s look at trends on abortion in a few recent polls. This one, from a WSJ poll in mid-October, isn’t too helpful because the only point of reference is data from March 2005. Even so, there’s a shift:

This, from a CNN poll taken in late August, is much more revealing:

Nice and steady there in the mid-20s for “legal under any circumstances” over the past five years — until suddenly, in August of this year, the number jumps. Why? Well, what else happened in August this year? Right: Todd Akin opened his yapper about “legitimate rape” and women’s supposed biological defense mechanisms against it and that was the beginning of the end for Republican chances to take back the Senate. How big a deal was it? Weeks later, the NYT poll was seeing more support for the idea that abortion should be “generally available” than it had in over 15 years:

The first column shows those who want abortion generally available, the second column shows those who think it should be available with stricter limits. Follow the last link and check the data and you’ll find that the last time “generally available” hit 42% was February 1995. Some of the movement may be due to Democrats’ relentless “war on women” messaging independent of Akin, but Akin was the rocket fuel they needed for it, I think. Nothing strange about that, really: Sentiments about abortion can shift quite sharply based on recent political circumstances. Remember what happened in Gallup’s polling on this subject shortly after O was inaugurated in 2009? Right — there was a sudden leap in the number who describe themselves as “pro-life,” to the point where it overtook “pro-choice” for the first time ever. That was mainly a reaction, I think, from abortion fencesitters who suddenly worried that O and his Democratic Congress might try to expand abortion rights too far. You’re seeing the opposite play out now with Akin, I suspect. Between him and Mourdock, fencesitters are alarmed at what they’re hearing about rape and are identifying as pro-choice to signal their opposition. That’ll level off in time, but it’s proof positive that Republicans lost more than just Senate seats when they said what they said. People who claimed that two inadvertently did damage to their own socially conservative cause weren’t kidding.


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Honestly, Rs are going to have to impose some kind of test on all their candidates…or a battery of tests. looking for low iq, impulsivity, and personality traits that doom them and the party all at once

i mean, they used to do that for senior management…why not. I’d rather have certified candidates that certifiable candidates.

r keller on November 15, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Is L.I.B like “Black Hole Sun”?

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on November 15, 2012 at 10:49 PM

No, it’s L.I.F.B. – Let it F*ck*ing Burn

NapaConservative on November 15, 2012 at 11:01 PM

woman are the stupid party

newrouter on November 15, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Interesting about Obama and abortion.

I bet his mother would have considered it or maybe she was REALLY REBELLING by raising a black baby in a white world?

Maybe THAT was her flipping the bird to the America of 1960-61….

PappyD61 on November 15, 2012 at 10:57 PM

She was a 60′s rebel no doubt, but the fact that she abandoned the kid tells me she didn’t want much to do with him. Her parents probably would have pushed her to abort as well.

slickwillie2001 on November 15, 2012 at 11:11 PM

I’m Pro Life. I’m also empathetic and rational. Akin and Mourdock helped Obama and moved the needle in the wrong direction.

Basilsbest on November 15, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Right. Once again Social Conservatives are an easy scape goat. Build that coalition, dumbass.

hawkdriver on November 15, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Hope the punks face freezes like that.

Texyank on November 15, 2012 at 11:13 PM

women should shut up and wear a burka per the muslim bros. non islam women are slaves for the taking see the koran and proggtard bible

newrouter on November 15, 2012 at 11:14 PM

sandy fluke in gaza. good allan you proggtards are stupid

newrouter on November 15, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Hope the punks face freezes like that.

Texyank on November 15, 2012 at 11:13 PM

yes i wish that would happen XD

Sachiko on November 15, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Republicans have to stop letting the left get them caught up in a conversation about “exceptions” for abortion. The debate needs to stay focused on whether or not an unborn baby is a life, with the same rights as an infant. Until that part of the debate is settled, what is the point in talking about exceptions?

I’ve seen others make this point, and I agree. Keep the conversation focused on late term abortions. If conservatives can’t build a concensus when it comes to the killing of a fully formed baby in the womb, how can we ever expect to get society to move on the issue of abortion as a whole?

HarryBackside on November 15, 2012 at 11:18 PM

but soon they’ll be able to do the testing by just drawing blood from the mother.

ninjapirate on November 15, 2012 at 10:06 PM

It appears you have the same biology knowledge level as Todd Akin.

/hint, the unborn baby is a completely separate organism from the mother, the blood supplies are completely isolated; knowledge of the baby’s health or genetic defects will not be available from the mother’s bloodstream.

AZfederalist on November 15, 2012 at 11:21 PM

The pro-aborts who support partial birth abortions where tongs are used to crush heads and watch for leaking brain fluid are not. OK. got it.

kringeesmom on November 15, 2012 at 9:57 PM

I bet these same people where burning effigies of Micheal Vick after he was exposed for running an illegal dog fighting ring.

HarryBackside on November 15, 2012 at 11:27 PM

Maybe I should go to the airport and spit at incoming liberals while screaming “Babykiller!”

applebutter on November 15, 2012 at 11:35 PM

Rasmussen: 54% now call themselves pro-choice, 38% pro-life

This is psychologically called the ‘bandwagon effect’. People want to be associated with the winning side to avoid being called ‘losers”. As the economy keeps going down–down–down—down—down in the next few years and finally it dawns on people as dumb as door bells that Obama MIGHT have something to do with it, ask this same question again and I’ll wager the opinions will reverse.

MaiDee on November 15, 2012 at 11:36 PM

You know it’s an interesting thought; it doesn’t cost *that* much to have a public-access cable channel – we just need to start ‘the abortion channel’ – 24/7 nothing but abortion procedures, pics, etc. I mean, everyone who’s ‘pro-choice’ wouldn’t be alarmed, would they? It’s just a boring old medical procedure and such.

Midas on November 15, 2012 at 11:36 PM

slickwillie2001 on November 15, 2012 at 11:11 PM

So why didn’t her parents send her to Sweden or Japan where she could get an abortion. It wasn’t like they couldn’t afford it.

chemman on November 15, 2012 at 11:38 PM

There is no civilized country in the world where abortion is illegal. This is not a case of America being decadently liberal. America is no different in this regard than the rest of the civilized world.

Take a look at this map.

What do anti-abortion people think of those who view meat as murder? Are they sympathetic, or dismissive of people with that strong ethical objection? Dismissive of course. That’s the world we all live in.

keep the change on November 15, 2012 at 11:54 PM

There is no civilized country in the world where abortion is illegal.

I’d say that is a greater condemnation of what is “civilized”, than a premise to undergird your argument.

the world is racing towards hell at a pace I didn’t think I would witness in my lifetime.

tom daschle concerned on November 15, 2012 at 11:57 PM

Just going to copy what i put on this over from the headline page

I don’t believe it..i refuse to believe that not even half of America values every life..refuse…This country isn’t that far gone….yet

sadsushi on November 16, 2012 at 12:11 AM

Society of convenience. Remember the option is life-right or choice…our structure is still liberty and most people will ALWAYS be for the option that has “choice” in it.

Frame it as: “Should individuals be able to end the life of their baby before birth?” – It’s all about the lead in…do you want to able to choose something? OF EFFIN COURSE! I like those history shows where it was Pro-Abortion all day/all night, bragging they terminated pregnancies on their shirt.

This is like “Fiscal Cliff” “Middle Class” “The Rich” “Fair-whatever”

STOP USING SOMEONE ELSE’S PHRASING AT FACE VALUE!!! or even at all. I got no dog in this fight, but I can’t stand idiocy and hypocrisy. Define life and the world in your own terms while ripping their assertions to shreds.

John Kettlewell on November 16, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Great article about Kathy Ireland here

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/11/15/kathy-ireland-raises-funds-for-abortion-alternatives-group/

the pro-life movement is alive and well and no poll will change that

sadsushi on November 16, 2012 at 12:16 AM

The confusion is that many people call themselves “pro-life” even though they actually don’t believe the government should criminalize abortion procedures, and many people call themselves pro-choice even though they still think abortion is immoral.

For years, I basically did the same thing. The truth is, you can’t even get a majority of Republicans that truly expect (or want) politicians to outlaw all abortions.

The pro-life purists like Akin are what will likely end the right-to-life movement as a political plank in the GOP.

At this point in history, abortion has become settled law and is a moral choice. I still think the GOP can find areas of agreement, like with public funding of abortion, partial birth abortion, etc., but the Santorum/Huckabee/Akin wing of SoCons need to take a hike. They are the reason Harry Reid is firmly in control of the Senate, and likely will be for a long time because of their idiocy.

BradTank on November 16, 2012 at 12:16 AM

There are counties and Congressional districts where a hardcore pro-life stance will sell.

But there’s probably only a couple of states at most where that’s the case.

Equally importantly, it’s just flat stupid to attempt to trowel on some sort of pseudoscientific bafflegab in order to lend broader acceptability to what is really a personal ethical judgment.

The Democrats do a very good job, when interviewed, of answering not the question actually asked but the question they wanted to answer.

We must make sure that the same is true of GOP candidates. Whatever the question is, the answer is no mandates and no federal funding. Nothing else. Nothing more.

JEM on November 16, 2012 at 12:38 AM

Much of the argument boils down to whether you believe in life at conception. Most, if not all here, do. Not so much elsewhere. Many believe that life begins when the child can survive outside the womb.

Medicine has improved enough that many fetuses that reach a 6th month will survive if removed from the mother. Start with getting an absolute ban on abortions after month 5. Majorities will support this position. The “abortion is OK at any time for any reason” crowd is really pretty small.

independentvoice on November 16, 2012 at 12:56 AM

Frankly the mental state of the the two Senate candidates, Atkins and Mourdock, scared me and I am prolife. They sounded like retarded hicks who last read a book in 1958, Freddy The Pig or some such. You could not find such stupid, heartless yokels if you tried at a bowling alley.

pat on November 16, 2012 at 1:54 AM

Great article about Kathy Ireland here

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/11/15/kathy-ireland-raises-funds-for-abortion-alternatives-group/

the pro-life movement is alive and well and no poll will change that

sadsushi on November 16, 2012 at 12:16 AM

Many GOPE politicians like Akin are actually idiots of their party’s political stance. Mourdouck is an aberration. Too much power, I say, corrupt these useful tools of the GOPE Ruling Class.

TheAlamos on November 16, 2012 at 3:16 AM

Imagine if those millions of dollars spent by the Romney campaign from primaries up to the general election were actually used to promote the WINNING ARGUMENTS OF THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT!

What a loss of resources!

TheAlamos on November 16, 2012 at 3:18 AM

Wow, and considering Gallup and Rasmussen were like, the two worst polls of the entire election, you can probably “un-skew” that number and give another +5 points to the pro-choice crowd.

triple on November 16, 2012 at 4:01 AM

It’s funny to read through the comments ad see the terminology. Those for it, hide the word from their position. They’re “pro-choice”. When they describe us we’re “anti-abortion”.

I’m pro-life, why aren’t you pro-abortion? Are you scare of what you support?

hawkdriver on November 16, 2012 at 6:15 AM

“scared”

hawkdriver on November 16, 2012 at 6:16 AM

but soon they’ll be able to do the testing by just drawing blood from the mother.

ninjapirate on November 15, 2012 at 10:06 PM

It appears you have the same biology knowledge level as Todd Akin.

/hint, the unborn baby is a completely separate organism from the mother, the blood supplies are completely isolated; knowledge of the baby’s health or genetic defects will not be available from the mother’s bloodstream.

Don’t talk about what you don’t know… some of the dna of the baby can be found in the blood of the mother.

ninjapirate on November 16, 2012 at 7:02 AM

Don’t talk about what you don’t know… some of the dna of the baby can be found in the blood of the mother.

So if the mother is carrying a male child, does that mean that she’s part male for as long as she is carrying the child?

I’m sure the father will be thrilled to here that.

furytrader on November 16, 2012 at 7:10 AM

So if the mother is carrying a male child, does that mean that she’s part male for as long as she is carrying the child?

I’m sure the father will be thrilled to here that.

I doubt he would care considering half of that dna is his and the other half is from the mother…

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22312-sons-dna-found-inside-mothers-brain.html

ninjapirate on November 16, 2012 at 7:13 AM

Deep down, I suspect the “fiscal” and “libertarian” right is just as much in favor of the pure evil of depriving helpless innocent life of the the most fundamental right they have been given by “Nature’s God”: while they foolishly believe they can then still give credible argument as to why it’s immoral for the other side to take away their mere money.

Truth is not Swiss cheese, with convenient holes to be called cheese too, nor is God or His precepts we ll know either hold dear or reject.
Yet we hypocritically insist that we get to choose which evils we support while pretending to hold the moral high ground. The oft quoted phrase’keep government out of my bedroom is really a disguise for: keep God out of my bedroom (as if their were no social nor economic consequences)

Our problems are not economic–those are but byproducts of a society that has tossed away its God and with Him, all goodness, all truth, and all love.

The atheistic Godless world left knows our soft underbelly full well, and that is why they for decades now, have patiently set about to take us down with the seduction of every evil possible–through our culture–and it worked, even why we foolishly think sound economic arguments will superceed the power of free lunches, lust, casual infidelity, envy, hedonism, sloth, revenge for long past slavery, guilt free abortions, division by groups, Marxism as charity, and pride–the personel destruction brought about by daring to speak the truth and violate the political correctness weapon.

Don L on November 16, 2012 at 7:13 AM

They call it choice. By the time a woman gets to this particular choice she has already made several bad choices. What makes her think that abortion is the right choice now.
You choose to have sex.
You choose to have sex at a time in your cycle when you may become pregnant.
You choose to have sex with an individual you have no intention of raising a child with.
You choose not to use any type of contracetion, maybe there are just too many choices for you to decide which contraception to use.
Finally, you are choosing a path which your ancestry quite plainly did not choose.

Perhaps they did not have that choice, too bad.

Ufdaubet on November 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM

In a country where over half of the population has morphed into whiny, self serving parasites, why should this surprise anybody?

rplat on November 16, 2012 at 7:31 AM

If this change is real, it’s 100% because of Akin and Murdock and the left’s ability to control the narrative with women being denied “rape and incest” abortion.

gatsbysgirlontheside on November 16, 2012 at 7:39 AM

And remember that the left is trying, and may have succeeded in combining birth control and abortion into “reproductive rights.”

gatsbysgirlontheside on November 16, 2012 at 7:41 AM

“More voters that ever are moronic, idiotic and illegal.” Here AP fixed it for you.

Fuquay Steve on November 16, 2012 at 7:46 AM

This is the second bit of good news I have seen from the last election. The first being the four fold victory for gay marriage. I just don’t get the combination of pro-life and pro-capitalism. Pro-life is to the ecology what socialism is to the economy: a fantasy that we don’t have to worry about limits, that we don’t have to make decisions and everything will come out wonderfully. Such fantasies lead to nightmares.

thuja on November 16, 2012 at 7:56 AM

What do anti-abortion people think of those who view meat as murder? Are they sympathetic, or dismissive of people with that strong ethical objection? Dismissive of course. That’s the world we all live in.

keep the change on November 15, 2012 at 11:54 PM

What does one thing have to do with the other? You are a complete idiot.

Civilized people do not kill off their offspring nor do they declare that such murder is a right.

Happy Nomad on November 16, 2012 at 7:59 AM

This could turn out to be permanent, but my suspicion is that these polls, along with those on tax hikes vs. cuts, are more a reflection of conservative despondency than an indication of deeply held beliefs.

Right now there’s a “why-f–king-bother!?!” attitude of depression on the right. I personally think it’s justified, but whether it is long term remains to be seen. The Right was pretty low after 2008. The turnaround came when Rush gave one of the all-time great speeches at CPAC in Jan 2009.

SAMinVA on November 16, 2012 at 8:02 AM

How the hell can there be fencesitters on this?

It’s only murder sometimes? Really?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 8:04 AM

Much of the argument boils down to whether you believe in life at conception. Most, if not all here, do. Not so much elsewhere. Many believe that life begins when the child can survive outside the womb.

Medicine has improved enough that many fetuses that reach a 6th month will survive if removed from the mother. Start with getting an absolute ban on abortions after month 5. Majorities will support this position. The “abortion is OK at any time for any reason” crowd is really pretty small.

independentvoice on November 16, 2012 at 12:56 AM

You’ll possibly get a lot of pushback on this; however, I believe this is the logical and pragmatic path to pursue.

This argument should be framed just like the left would: Because of the great medical advancements that have been made with premature births, we now know that babies are able to survive with proper medical care from __ weeks of gestation. Certainly, no caring person would let a baby over this age die if born prematurely so it is imperative that we re-think our attitudes based on old worn-out theories and move forward into an age where we acknowledge that a child who is capable of surviving outside the womb should not be denied the right to life inside the womb after the viable age.

Greyledge Gal on November 16, 2012 at 8:11 AM

To clarify, I am pro-life and believe life begins at conception. My above comments are a strategy to limit abortions which are now legal in all circumstances in many places and do not advocate abortion in any way.

Greyledge Gal on November 16, 2012 at 8:15 AM

I’m pro-life, why aren’t you pro-abortion? Are you scare of what you support?

hawkdriver on November 16, 2012 at 6:15 AM

I am pro-minding-my-own business on the abortion issue. If you would prefer to call me pro-abortion it wouldn’t bother me…just like being called a racist doesn’t bother me because I don’t support Obama. But it will still be a description that is untrue.

I think allowing for abortions under the cases of rape, incest and health of the mother, is not unreasonable. I also think not allowing for those exceptions can seem extreme and uncaring to many people. Even if you look at this CNN poll from 3 short months ago with 62% of respondents calling themselves pro-life, even an overwhelming majority of that group endorses the “with exceptions” along with their belief to put restrictions on abortions .

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:17 AM

Few people go through with the prenatal testing because it’s potentially dangerous… it will probably dramatically increase the amount of abortions for people who think they may be carrying an unhealthy child.

Cowardly people are cowardly.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 8:17 AM

It’s only murder sometimes? Really?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 8:04 AM

And calling anyone with pro-leave-all-choices-on-the-table beliefs, advocates of murder…is a sure fire way to quickly make someone defensive and shuts down dialogue. I would suggest leaving the inflammatory language out of it if you are truly interested in getting others to listen to your point of view.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:34 AM

Sorry, not believing a damn poll I see any more. Don’t know what to believe in the news either.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 8:34 AM

Even so, come Lord Jesus…

Kjeil on November 15, 2012 at 9:40 PM

Jesus is dead.

It’s been 2,000 years.

He’s not coming back.

Have a nice day…

chumpThreads on November 16, 2012 at 8:34 AM

What pro-lifers need to do is explain how de-funding Planned Parenthood would lead to great reductions in abortion for contraceptive purposes, without anybody resorting to a wire hanger in desperation:

If PP did boob jobs, this whole country would look like a California strip joint–and let me tell you how. They keep the government’s wallet open by convincing the people there are hundreds of millions of desperately poor women with malformed and noticeably asymmetrical breasts. Plus, you can accidentally mangle your breasts any old time, don’t you know. Just wake up one morning, BAM! Mangled boobs. And it’s sooo shameful to admit your breasts are awful-looking, therefore “breast care” must be subsidized and provided with no serious questions asked. Don’t even try to tell me that even a bare majority of boob jobs in that situation would be provided for anything other than cosmetic purposes. And of course, you are anti-woman for pointing that out. California strip joint or enough silicone for a Cylon convention.

Planned Parenthood tugs at womens’ heart strings and plays on their fears to keep their wallets and ballot boxes open, when you can’t tell me even a bare majority of abortions they perform are on their cancer-stricken rape victim poster children.

When a woman has to foot the full bill for the abortion if he runs away, she will re-think using a contraceptive “oopsie” to further her boyfriend’s commitment. She is also unlikely to be a repeat customer.

Sekhmet on November 16, 2012 at 8:39 AM

I am pro-minding-my-own business on the abortion issue. If you would prefer to call me pro-abortion it wouldn’t bother me…just like being called a racist doesn’t bother me because I don’t support Obama. But it will still be a description that is untrue.

I think allowing for abortions under the cases of rape, incest and health of the mother, is not unreasonable. I also think not allowing for those exceptions can seem extreme and uncaring to many people. Even if you look at this CNN poll from 3 short months ago with 62% of respondents calling themselves pro-life, even an overwhelming majority of that group endorses the “with exceptions” along with their belief to put restrictions on abortions .

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:17 AM

So it’s OK to murder a baby sometimes, just not all the times.

You people can frame the abortion issue any friggin way you want but that does not change the fact that it is still murder. You can call it what you want but it’s still murder. You can say a fetus isn’t a human but saying so doesn’t make it so. To me any pro abortion individual is a murderer and complicit in millions of murders and the lowest form of scum there is.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 8:43 AM

chumpThreads on November 16, 2012 at 8:34 AM

You’re just an ugly person.

thuja on November 16, 2012 at 7:56 AM

…and you’re reliably ugly. You’re a person of the death culture. What a puke.

CW on November 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM

I just don’t get the combination of pro-life and pro-capitalism. …..

thuja on November 16, 2012 at 7:56 AM

Just more proof that ability to think in any complexity is just not there.

CW on November 16, 2012 at 8:51 AM

*your ability…

CW on November 16, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Public school education, I assume, huh thula? That would explain it.

Fuquay Steve on November 16, 2012 at 8:54 AM

So it’s OK to murder a baby sometimes, just not all the times.

You people can frame the abortion issue any friggin way you want but that does not change the fact that it is still murder. You can call it what you want but it’s still murder. You can say a fetus isn’t a human but saying so doesn’t make it so. To me any pro abortion individual is a murderer and complicit in millions of murders and the lowest form of scum there is.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Please see my 8:34 post. If you want to attempt to convince me I need to re-think the matter, that’s fine…but the language I have highlighted in your post will never help you succeed in that endeavor.

Let me ask you this, and this is a serious question as I have never seen the answer to it addressed by those that have a staunch pro-life position.

If abortion were ever made illegal in all cases, what would you want the punishment to be for anyone who was “caught” having or performing an abortion? I am genuinely curious how you would want to see that handled.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Yeah if you think the government is going to ban abortion in any and all cases including rape, incest, life of the mother… you’re gonna be pro choice.

What’s sad is, the liberals sound like lunatics on abortion. Championing it in every case under any circumstances, for any reason. A few Republicans managed to out crazy them though, so good job there.

Dash on November 16, 2012 at 9:05 AM

It doesn’t matter what the “trend” is, it was trendy to have a slave at one time.

History will be on the side of the pro-lifers…it will be, a hundred years from now, a landmark social icon, that a baby can be killed on a whim by a doctor…people will shake their head in disbelief.

Imagine, crushing a baby’s head, so the mother can live a carefree life…it’s a remarkable study in human’s begin able to justify most anything….hey, Jews are inferior animals, let’s starve them to death, watch them die of disease or lead then into a gas chamber. it’s just a few million, and they make life difficult…hard to believe people embraced that.

right2bright on November 16, 2012 at 9:06 AM

And calling anyone with pro-leave-all-choices-on-the-table beliefs, advocates of murder…is a sure fire way to quickly make someone defensive and shuts down dialogue. I would suggest leaving the inflammatory language out of it if you are truly interested in getting others to listen to your point of view.

Yeah, you know what’s inflammatory? The slaughter of over a million unborn children every year. Righteous anger is more than warranted here.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:07 AM

If abortion were ever made illegal in all cases, what would you want the punishment to be for anyone who was “caught” having or performing an abortion?

Jail time. The answer is in the question.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:09 AM

I would suggest leaving the inflammatory language out of it if you are truly interested in getting others to listen to your point of view.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:34 AM

Well, you wouldn’t want to upset someone who crushes the head of a baby, or takes a syringe and sucks the brain out of a baby in the womb…let’s not upset them.

The reason why people get upset at being called out, is because advocates can’t grasp that their is a life actually being wantonly destroyed, often in the most vile way.

It’s like the German’s watching the train cars go by, no way could they conceive of what was going on, even after being told, many just couldn’t grasp the inhumanity of it all…no more than people couldn’t believe that Idi Amin fed people to the alligators, or that Hussein would let dogs tear apart a parents child in front of them to obtain information about their neighbors…
Hard to comprehend…tell me, would you crush a healthy babies head emerging from the womb because the women told you she is “depressed”, and can’t party?

right2bright on November 16, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Rasmussen had a poll on this same question 2 months ago.The numbers were reveresed.ABC ex poll on 11-6-2012 said 53% wanted Obama care repealed .Now 10 days later ABC says only 33% want to get rid of Obamacare.I say about all polls now and forever BULLSH*T.

logman1 on November 16, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Yeah, you know what’s inflammatory? The slaughter of over a million unborn children every year. Righteous anger is more than warranted here.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:07 AM

I agree the statistics are heart-breaking…but I believe the answer to reducing the amount of abortions performed each year lies in education and persuasion. Even if Roe were ever able to be overturned, it would not stop those who wanted an abortion from getting one. Wouldn’t the decision to make abortion illegal or not then go back to the States? And something makes me think all those deep blue states will never make abortion illegal. Women will merely need to make travel arrangements in addition to an appointment with an abortion provider. No?

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Jail time. The answer is in the question.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:09 AM

So you would want to imprison a woman that was raped… and then decided she did not want to carry the offspring of her rapist?

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Please see my 8:34 post. If you want to attempt to convince me I need to re-think the matter, that’s fine…but the language I have highlighted in your post will never help you succeed in that endeavor.

Let me ask you this, and this is a serious question as I have never seen the answer to it addressed by those that have a staunch pro-life position.

If abortion were ever made illegal in all cases, what would you want the punishment to be for anyone who was “caught” having or performing an abortion? I am genuinely curious how you would want to see that handled.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Nice trick question you have there? I could answer by saying abortion is murder and treat the individual as such, or I could say there should be exceptions in which case you will pounce with other idiotic questions. So I will go with the former and say abortion is murder and anyone who condones it, performs it, or has one is a murderer and should be treated as such. With todays medicine and drugs there should never be a need for one single abortion, but we have a population that refuses to be responsible for their own actions and existence, and part of this irresponsibility is having their own babies pay the ultimate price for their irresponsibility. What a great society we have created.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Rasmussen had a poll on this same question 2 months ago.The numbers were reveresed.ABC ex poll on 11-6-2012 said 53% wanted Obama care repealed .Now 10 days later ABC says only 33% want to get rid of Obamacare.I say about all polls now and forever BULLSH*T.

logman1 on November 16, 2012 at 9:17 AM

And some people still think there’s a political solution to fixing our country. Get a clue already.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:30 AM

tell me, would you crush a healthy babies head emerging from the womb because the women told you she is “depressed”, and can’t party?

right2bright on November 16, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Good gracious…of course not. I think there should be restrictions on the time allowed to be able to legally terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Any woman who finds herself in that situation needs to get her sh!t together and make a decision within a much shorter time frame than what is allowed now.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:30 AM

So you would want to imprison a woman that was raped… and then decided she did not want to carry the offspring of her rapist?

Why does the commission of a crime against her give her the right to commit a crime against someone else?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:32 AM

Jail time. The answer is in the question.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:09 AM

So you would want to imprison a woman that was raped… and then decided she did not want to carry the offspring of her rapist?

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:22 AM

And here’s a nice trick question by a pro baby killer. What this pro baby killer doesn’t tell you is that modern medical practices can prevent the pregnancy immediately after the rape thereby costing less economic, emotional and physical pain for everyone. But that also requires personal responsibility, something the baby killers don’t talk about.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:35 AM

I am pro-minding-my-own business on the abortion issue. If you would prefer to call me pro-abortion it wouldn’t bother me…just like being called a racist doesn’t bother me because I don’t support Obama. But it will still be a description that is untrue.

I think allowing for abortions under the cases of rape, incest and health of the mother, is not unreasonable. I also think not allowing for those exceptions can seem extreme and uncaring to many people. Even if you look at this CNN poll from 3 short months ago with 62% of respondents calling themselves pro-life, even an overwhelming majority of that groupendorses the “with exceptions” along with their belief to put restrictions on abortions .

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 8:17 AM

So it’s OK to murder a baby sometimes, just not all the times.

You people can frame the abortion issue any friggin way you want but that does not change thefactthatit is still murder. You can call it what you want but it’s still murder. You can say a fetus isn’t a human but saying so doesn’t make it so. To me any pro abortion individual is a murderer and complicit in millions of murders and the lowest form of scum there is.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 8:43 AM

So it’s OK to imperil the life of a woman -child-bearing always carries that risk- and to sometimes condemn a child to a lifetime of pain due to genetic defect resulting from an incestuous conception or the defects of an assaulting rapist?

You people can frame the abortion issue any friggin way you want but it does not change the fact that “murder” is a legal term and our society’s jurisprudence system doesn’t agree with your assessment of the situation. And if that fetus is human, and you are sure murder is being committed, angry postings on the internet, and commitment to a political party that very obviously, and for a long time, does not care to fight for your values somehow seems an inadequate response.

M240H on November 16, 2012 at 9:36 AM

History will be on the side of the pro-lifers…it will be, a hundred years from now, a landmark social icon, that a baby can be killed on a whim by a doctor…people will shake their head in disbelief.

History could have been on the side of the pro-lifers… but they were stupid in how they conducted their politics…

Now history will be on the side of the neo-eugenicists.

ninjapirate on November 16, 2012 at 9:37 AM

So you would want to imprison a woman that was raped… and then decided she did not want to carry the offspring of her rapist?

Why does the commission of a crime against her give her the right to commit a crime against someone else?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:32 AM

Silly conservative, leftist baby killers can’t reason in such way.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:37 AM

The confusion is that many people call themselves “abolitionists” even though they actually don’t believe the government should criminalize slavery, and many people call themselves pro-slavery even though they still think slavery is immoral.

For years, I basically did the same thing. The truth is, you can’t even get a majority of Republicans that truly expect (or want) politicians to outlaw all slavery.

The abolitionist purists like John Brown are what will likely end the abolitionist movement as a political plank in the GOP.

At this point in history, slavery has become settled law and is a moral choice. I still think the GOP can find areas of agreement, like with public funding of slavery, the fate of children born to slaves, etc., but the Brown/Lincoln/Tubman wing of SoCons need to take a hike. They are the reason Stephen Douglas is firmly in control of the Senate, and likely will be for a long time because of their idiocy.

BradTank on November 16, 2012 at 12:16 AM

It’s the same debate.

Abortion is MORE evil than slavery. Slavery was “settled” early in the history of this republic. Should the abolitionists have just shut up because it was costing votes?

makattak on November 16, 2012 at 9:40 AM

So it’s OK to imperil the life of a woman -child-bearing always carries that risk- and to sometimes condemn a child to a lifetime of pain due to genetic defect resulting from an incestuous conception or the defects of an assaulting rapist?

You people can frame the abortion issue any friggin way you want but it does not change the fact that “murder” is a legal term and our society’s jurisprudence system doesn’t agree with your assessment of the situation. And if that fetus is human, and you are sure murder is being committed, angry postings on the internet, and commitment to a political party that very obviously, and for a long time, does not care to fight for your values somehow seems an inadequate response.

M240H on November 16, 2012 at 9:36 AM

And you people can bring up our jurisprudence system until hell freezes over. Still doesn’t make it right. Or perhaps maybe you would prefer to return to the days when Plessy Vs Ferguson was the law of the land which said separate but equal facilities for blacks and whites were legal. Just because a court says so doesn’t make it right, never will. If that’s all you got you got nothing.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:41 AM

This is the second bit of good news I have seen from the last election. The first being the four fold victory for gay marriage. I just don’t get the combination of pro-life and pro-capitalism. Pro-life is to the ecology what socialism is to the economy: a fantasy that we don’t have to worry about limits, that we don’t have to make decisions and everything will come out wonderfully. Such fantasies lead to nightmares.

thuja on November 16, 2012 at 7:56 AM

THOMAS MALTHUS! Alive and well!

And here I thought you died hundreds of years ago. Whatever keeps you kicking, old man?

makattak on November 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM

Nice trick question you have there

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:28 AM

It really wasn’t meant as some sort of trick. I honestly did not know what pro-life beliefs would lead someone to believe as to what needs to be done with offenders …if abortion were illagal in all cases.

With todays medicine and drugs there should never be a need for one single abortion, but we have a population that refuses to be responsible for their own actions and existence,

I agree completely that if people were responsible then abortions would be much more rare…and teaching those that are irresponsible with regard to their sex life is a very huge task.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM

So you would want to imprison a woman that was raped… and then decided she did not want to carry the offspring of her rapist?

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Yes. That baby would be an innocent too-and if she decided to MURDER it…that would make her a killer.

Btw: I had a tubal when I was in my late 20′s, and am now in my early 40′s-so my getting pregnant again is HIGHLY unlikely. Were I to *shudder* ever be raped, the RAPIST’S life would be in danger-from my husband and quite a few other gentlemen who would want to rip him limb from limb-but any BABY that resulted from it, would not be.

annoyinglittletwerp on November 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:35 AM

That’s where you and I disagree . As a Catholic, I’m against birth control-which includes the so called ‘Morning after’ pill.
*I got my tubal over a decade before I joined the Catholic Church.*

annoyinglittletwerp on November 16, 2012 at 9:47 AM

And here’s a nice trick question by a pro baby killer.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:35 AM

I don’t believe anyone who is pro-choice encourages the killing of babies. It should always be a last resort.
I myself am an adoption advocate in the cases of unwanted pregnancies.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:50 AM

And you people can bring up our jurisprudence system until hell freezes over. Still doesn’t make it right. Or perhaps maybe you would prefer to return to thedays when Plessy Vs Ferguson was the law of the land which said separate but equal facilities for blacks and whites were legal. Just because a court says so doesn’t make it right, never will. If that’s all you got you got nothing.

bgibbs1000 on November 16, 2012 at 9:41 AM

I would indeed prefer a return to the days of yore, when men such as yourself weren’t too much of a p***y to act on their beliefs.

Incidentally, you can quit referring to me as one of “you people”; you’ve no idea where I stand on the issue.

M240H on November 16, 2012 at 9:53 AM

While it’s important to take ANY pro/anti-abortion poll from ANYWHERE with a truckload of salt, the reality is undeniable. People really are wanting ‘free’ stuff and “get of of pregnancy free cards” more than economic liberty and traditional values.

And to posters like hawkdriver who can’t seem to tell the difference between the average anti-abortion voter and the idiotic anti-abortion politicians like Akin…I invite you to take a good hard look at this picture a friend of mine spotted “in the wild”.

Sad as it may be, do you see a pattern YET?!?

MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 9:56 AM

So you would want to imprison a woman that was raped… and then decided she did not want to carry the offspring of her rapist?

Why does the commission of a crime against her give her the right to commit a crime against someone else?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:32 AM

I just don’t think I could ever contemplate throwing a rape victim in jail. It sounds pretty harsh. Rape is a violent crime that victims can sometimes take an extremeely long time to recover from…if ever. I couldn’t add any more agony to what the victim is already going through…and I think jail might do that.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 9:58 AM

So it’s OK to imperil the life of a woman -child-bearing always carries that risk- and to sometimes condemn a child to a lifetime of pain due to genetic defect resulting from an incestuous conception or the defects of an assaulting rapist?

Hmm…”imperiling” the life of the woman and/or the baby vs. certain death for the kid.

Tough one, that.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:58 AM

I just don’t think I could ever contemplate throwing a rape victim in jail. It sounds pretty harsh.

Not nearly as harsh as poking a hole in a baby’s skull and sucking its brains out.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:59 AM

I just don’t think I could ever contemplate throwing a rape victim in jail. It sounds pretty harsh.

Not nearly as harsh as poking a hole in a baby’s skull and sucking its brains out.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 9:59 AM

If you read my previous posts you will see I don’t believe in allowing for mid to late term abortions.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 10:08 AM

If you read my previous posts you will see I don’t believe in allowing for mid to late term abortions.

I hate to tell you this, but the earlier-term abortions aren’t any prettier. They just happen to a smaller person.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 10:23 AM

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Abortion is abortion is abortion. doesn’t matter when it’s done, it still results in a murdered baby.

annoyinglittletwerp on November 16, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Abortion is abortion is abortion. doesn’t matter when it’s done, it still results in a murdered baby.

annoyinglittletwerp on November 16, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Of course. The destruction of human life is a terrible outcome for an unwanted pregnancy….and I don’t believe I could ever choose that option if I were in that situation. Adoption, adoption, adoption is what needs to be pushed. Helping women to understand their unwanted pregnancy can lead to a lifetime a joy for another woman, IMO, is a wonderful message.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 10:45 AM

I hate to tell you this, but the earlier-term abortions aren’t any prettier. They just happen to a smaller person.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Yes, I understand your point. All abortions represent a truly ugly side to our society.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Helping women to understand their unwanted pregnancy can lead to a lifetime a joy for another woman, IMO, is a wonderful message.

But in the meantime you’re OK with the slaughter as long as it’s early in the pregnancy?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 10:51 AM

No one is asking people to “check” their beliefs at the door.

Regardless of what the “official” government policy is, I will continue to believe that abortion is immoral and teach my children likewise. People can still advocate the position of life and win over hearts and minds.

But as far as public policy goes, it’s futile to try and outlaw it. The best case scenario would be it goes to the states to be decided, in which case, all 50 states would have some form of legal abortion allowed. And even if you want to engage in some sort of alternate universe fantasy where it’s banned at the federal level, stopping abortion will probably be about as effective as the War on Drugs.

Conservatives need to move on, understand the country is more secular and bureaucrats aren’t going to change that, and focus on keeping this country from turning into a Greece or Argentina.

The great thing about social conservatism is you really don’t need any bill or law to be passed in order to practice it everyday. You can be as strident and uncompromising as you want, the same with all sorts of destructive decisions people make every day that the law is never going to forbid.

BradTank on November 16, 2012 at 10:55 AM

BradTank on November 16, 2012 at 10:55 AM

See slavery arguments upthread.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Why are people debating what the punishment should be for conducting or receiving an abortion, when the two sides can’t even agree if an unborn baby should have the same rights as a baby who has left the womb? Until that portion of the debate is settled, everything else is pointless.

HarryBackside on November 16, 2012 at 11:07 AM

But in the meantime you’re OK with the slaughter as long as it’s early in the pregnancy?

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 10:51 AM

I think I am only being realistic when I say…yes. As I said previously, I do not believe overturning Roe will do much of anything to help dwindle the number of abortions. The States will be allowed to decide whether to keep abortion legal or not. Look at a red state/blue state map. No woman will have to travel very far to get an abortion if that is what she wants.

lynncgb on November 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM

This is what happens when you let the pro-life be defined by idiots who don’t believe in a rape exemption.

Critic2029 on November 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM

HarryBackside on November 16, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Because behind that so-called rabbit trail run the same themes of demagoguery and a complete absence of logic that characterize the entire left side of the abortion discussion.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Critic2029 on November 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM

I think Rebecca Kiessling might beg to differ.

mrsknightley on November 16, 2012 at 11:17 AM

LESSON: All conservatives running for public office need to rehearse their abortion to sound reasonable for public consumption. Remember you are running for public office, not public prophet. Prophets don’t win elections in America, politicians do.

Abraham Lincoln always took a middle of the road approach to slavery while running for president. He never said he would ban slavery, he only said he would restrict its growth into other parts of America. True abolitionist ridiculed him for being too soft, but a true abolitionist could not get elected dogcatcher.

Pro-life folks running for elected office should take a page from Lincoln and realize that you have to take it one step at a time. How about lets get late term abortion banned (unless the life of the mother is at stake). Most Americans agree on that. How about de-funding Planned Parenthood and all other tax funded abortion plans. That is another easy target because they waste tax dollars that could be used to protect more important entitlements, or at least phrase it that way. Win the battles you can, you can’t change the world overnight. God gave you a brain for a reason…use it.

BTW: I support abortion in the case of rape and when the life of the mother is at stake. But I think all other abortions should be banned. Akin was a fool….

William Eaton on November 16, 2012 at 11:24 AM

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