Budget cutters target ObamaCare subsidies as fiscal cliff approaches?

posted at 11:21 am on November 12, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

We are less than 50 days away from the fiscal cliff, and Congress returns to Washington today with a mission to avoid a fiscal and economic crisis that would easily spin the country into a new recession.  Peter Ferrara blasts Obamanomics in general at Forbes today, but also explains the stakes involved for the lame-duck session:

Last year I wrote a short book for Encounter called “Obama and the Crash of 2013.” I predicted then that Obama’s policies of increased top tax rates for nearly all major federal taxes, soaring new regulatory burdens, and loose, cheap dollar monetary policies, would produce renewed recession in 2013. Since then I have been joined in this view by the Washington establishment as reflected most authoritatively by the Congressional Budget Office.

Already enacted into current law to go into effect on January 1 are increases in the top tax rates of nearly every major federal tax. That is because the tax increases of Obamacare go into effect on that date, and the Bush tax cuts expire, which the President refuses to renew for the nation’s job creators, investors and successsful small businesses.

As a result, the top two income tax rates will jump nearly 20%, the capital gains tax rate will soar by nearly 60%, the tax on dividends will nearly triple, the Medicare payroll tax rate will skyrocket by 62% for these disfavored taxpayers, and the death tax will rise from the grave with a 57% rate increase.

This is all on top of the U.S. corporate tax rate, which under President Obama is now the highest in the world, except for the socialist one party state of Cameroon, at nearly 40% on average, counting state corporate taxes. Even China has a 25% corporate rate. The average in the social welfare states of the European Union is even less than that. Canada, which has been booming since Obama became President here, now sports a 15% federal corporate rate.

Unfortunately, the massive deficit spending of Obama’s first term leaves little room to roll back these tax hikes, unless spending gets a significant haircut in some way.  That was the original purpose of sequestration — to make the alternative so unpalatable to both sides that actual spending cuts would get implemented.  That didn’t happen in the 14 months after the debt deal in August 2011, but now that the election is over, Congress may have to rush through some key budget reforms to keep the triggered cuts from occurring, and to push off tax hikes to prevent another ruinous recession.

One place that budget cutters might find cash, reports The Hill, is the very legislation that Obama’s supporters hoped that his re-election had secured — ObamaCare.  While Obama demands tax hikes for those making over $250,000 a year, budget reformers are questioning his plan to provide subsidies for those making as much as 180% of median household income:

Supporters of President Obama’s healthcare law breathed a sigh of relief Tuesday, but they’re already back at work trying to protect one of its key provisions from budget cuts.

As the election fades into the rearview mirror and attention turns more seriously toward the looming “fiscal cliff,” lobbyists and advocates are once again wondering whether Congress might look to the healthcare law for spending cuts.

Specifically, lawmakers might be tempted to tap the health law’s insurance subsidies — by far its most expensive provision, and probably the most tangible benefit it will provide. …

Critics say the subsidies are too generous — 400 percent of the poverty level is more than $90,000 per year. And because the subsidies don’t begin to flow until 2014, they represent a giant pot of money that’s in the budget but wouldn’t have to come out of anyone’s pocket.

Median household income is roughly $50,000 per year, which makes that threshold more than 180% of that level.  I mentioned this often when analyzing ObamaCare during the legislative debate, as this cutoff at 400% of poverty level could end up including over 63% of all American households if employers started dumping health insurance en masse.  That would be entirely unsustainable, and in many cases entirely unnecessary.

However, such a cut would entirely cripple ObamaCare for that very reason.  The mandate requires everyone to carry health insurance (as a tax, thanks to John Roberts and the Supreme Court), but the cost of the required comprehensive policies would be ruinous.  The requirement could be modified to hospitalization coverage and HSAs, but that reform was specifically barred by ObamaCare, even though it makes the most sense for younger Americans.  Cutting off subsidies to middle-class households would create widespread violations of the mandate, and probably would end up with more uninsured Americans than when we started this mess, thanks to the undermining of the employer-provided model without any real reform that would have made insurance personally cost-efficient.

The problem with all of this starts with ObamaCare itself.  Any reform which requires federal subsidies to those making 180% of median household income to be affordable is an unsustainable model, and the proposed budget cuts simply reflect what would eventually have to happen in the future anyway.

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Democrats own all this… enjoy your tax raises, EVERYBODY!! It is the way of the future… I mean, after awhile, haven’t we made enough money?

Khun Joe on November 12, 2012 at 11:25 AM

burn this baby down

MoreLiberty on November 12, 2012 at 11:28 AM

One of the many joys baked into that 2700 monstrosity.

When all this comes crashing down it will be blamed on racists and Bush, obviously.

CorporatePiggy on November 12, 2012 at 11:29 AM

OT: What the HELL is wrong with this site in that it bans posts with certain words in it? I can’t even link to an article about people from 19 states registering petitions to s——? I can’t even link to the article by itself because the link contains the s——- word.

Does this site stand for freedom of speech or not (or has that become another s—– word to be banned)?

I guess you’ll have to look it up yourself on… http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/11

dominigan on November 12, 2012 at 11:30 AM

If anything is going to take us merrily over the fiscal cliff like a charging stampede of lemmings, it’s OBAMACARE!

pilamaye on November 12, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I won’t enjoy it, but I can afford the higher taxes, the $9 gas, the $800/month electric bills, etc. that are coming this way.

What I will enjoy is watching Democrats’ heads explode when the reap what they’ve sown.

Let. It. Burn.

glockomatic on November 12, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I guess all those that thought they were safe from increased taxes because they make less than 250k a year will feel the burn too. You voted for him, you deserve him. Unfortunately, you’re taking the rest of us down with you. That I will never forgive.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Oh we are back to repealing Obamacare huh? Why do conservatives never learn?

Anyway O/T why is Frank Luntz now bashing Fox News?

HotAirLib on November 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM

One thing I knew was that talk about how under Obamacare those with high incomes like $70,000 would not see their insurance rates rise was based on insane subsidies. It was all tricks and mirrors, just like the “deficit reduction” aspect of Obamacare. Of course billions of $ of subsidies to high income and middle income and even lower income Obamacare participants (everybody?) are going to be slashed. Obamacare is an unfolding nightmare. Obstruct it.

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 11:39 AM

I won’t enjoy it, but I can afford the higher taxes, the $9 gas, the $800/month electric bills, etc. that are coming this way.

What I will enjoy is watching Democrats’ heads explode when the reap what they’ve sown.

Let. It. Burn.

glockomatic on November 12, 2012 at 11:37 AM

You know what? I can’t. Nor can many other posters on this site. I understand your position, but many of us didn’t vote for this crap and we are going to suffer. I can’t forgive the people who voted this guy back and I can’t forgive the people who decided not to vote at all because 1)Romney is Mormon; 2)there’s no difference between Romney and Obama; 3)Romney wasn’t their preferred candidate-take your pick. I’m in for a world of hurt this next four years and I resent it profoundly.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Anyway O/T why is Frank Luntz now bashing Fox News?

HotAirLib on November 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Well, for grand starts, when it comes to the subject of validity, the story shows up on the Media Matters website, so that should be enough to send red flags flying up all over the place.

pilamaye on November 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM

You know what? I can’t. Nor can many other posters on this site. I understand your position, but many of us didn’t vote for this crap and we are going to suffer. I can’t forgive the people who voted this guy back and I can’t forgive the people who decided not to vote at all because 1)Romney is Mormon; 2)there’s no difference between Romney and Obama; 3)Romney wasn’t their preferred candidate-take your pick. I’m in for a world of hurt this next four years and I resent it profoundly.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM

I’m not happy about it either and understand your position. Unfortunately, we had ample warning that Romney was likely to lose going into this election and the Republicans pushed him on us anyway. The Republicans will have to continue to be punished with electoral defeats until they learn or until a third party replaces them. As they are currently constituted, the GOP is useless as a vehicle to oppose the Democrats, as has been amply demonstrated over the last two years and in this most recent election.

My advice to you would be to forget about politics as a solution, and do what you can to prepare yourself for the coming fiscal collapse. I have been since late 2009 or so.

Doomberg on November 12, 2012 at 11:46 AM

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 11:39 AM

70k is not a high income, Joe. It’s just barely middle class. After all the taxes, fees and expenses one has to pay, do you know how much of that 70k is left? Not much.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:47 AM

I paid about $2,500 a month out of my own pocket for about ten years as a single parent for myself and two healthy little kids.

Would that be a hardship to someone making $90,000?

BTW, when is 60 Minutes going to do an expose on how western Europeans (and even eastern ones that I met) just pony up the big cash to get a timely surgery from a decent physician.

I never got an answer as to whether President Obama’s Mom would have had her preexisting condition covered in various other nations.

And what did happen to those bills? He seems really bitter about it.

Did the media ever ask? Silly me, of course they didn’t.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

I won’t enjoy it, but I can afford the higher taxes, the $9 gas, the $800/month electric bills, etc. that are coming this way.

What I will enjoy is watching Democrats’ heads explode when the reap what they’ve sown.

Let. It. Burn.

glockomatic on November 12, 2012 at 11:37 AM

THIS.

ctmom on November 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Obamacare giveth and Obamacare taketh away.

ctmom on November 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

HotAirLib on November 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Not repealing, enforcing. No waivers, no subsidies, no exceptions.

I just can’t wait until colleges and universities all of the country see what their insurance bill is. Shocka!

Mitsouko on November 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

LIb friend was already complaining about how his insurance company limited the FSA to $2500 this year. Had no idea it was Obamacare. They just don’t know what is coming.

ctmom on November 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

It’s the law of the land… Take it out and you are RAISING TAXES on folks making under $90k.

It’s really not all that hard

gatorboy on November 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Enough people did not believe Romney would either: really be willing, or able to repeal Obamacare a sentiment easy to understand in light of RomneyCare and Romney’s insistence that he loved mandates.

I didn’t believe him, but I voted for him anyway.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

If people could buy a policy that covered just what they needed, subsidies would not be needed for people earning $90,000 per year. They could shop for the policy they wanted and could afford, maybe choosing a high deductible policy coupled with a health savings account. But my understanding is that we won’t get that choice, Obamacare dictates that everyone buy a “comprehensive” policy that will cover more than most people want or need, which will drive up premiums. We don’t even know what will be required yet, because all of the regulations have not yet been adopted. And really, isn’t that the only way Obamacare works? People have to be forced to purchase more insurance than they need, to enable insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and provide all of the other freebies in Obamacare. Please, if I’m wrong, tell me. I don’t see how my insurance premiums won’t skyrocket.

mbs on November 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Cutting off subsidies to middle-class households would create widespread violations of the mandate, and probably would end up with more uninsured Americans than when we started this mess…

The problem of “the uninsured” was a sham used to drive through Obamacare. The fact that 20,000,000 illegal aliens are specifically exempted from Obamacare demonstrates that.

slickwillie2001 on November 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Am I gonna lose my Obamaphone?!

forest on November 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Time to raise taxes on everyone. Just let the Bush tax cuts expire and let the Left get what they voted for.

Tater Salad on November 12, 2012 at 11:54 AM

mbs — that is how I see it as well.

CoffeeLover on November 12, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Would that be a hardship to someone making $90,000?

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Yes it would. That 90k isn’t take home and if you actually earned enough to pay that fee, you would know that.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:54 AM

If people could buy a policy that covered just what they needed, subsidies would not be needed for people earning $90,000 per year. They could shop for the policy they wanted and could afford, maybe choosing a high deductible policy coupled with a health savings account. But my understanding is that we won’t get that choice, Obamacare dictates that everyone buy a “comprehensive” policy that will cover more than most people want or need, which will drive up premiums. We don’t even know what will be required yet, because all of the regulations have not yet been adopted. And really, isn’t that the only way Obamacare works? People have to be forced to purchase more insurance than they need, to enable insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and provide all of the other freebies in Obamacare. Please, if I’m wrong, tell me. I don’t see how my insurance premiums won’t skyrocket.

mbs on November 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

You want to withhold Sandra Fluke’s birth control to save you a measly few dollars a month? You greedy Rethuglican!

slickwillie2001 on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

The real power the House GOP has is the coming need to raise the debt ceiling; the Dem’s need to feel a bit of pain.

Tater Salad on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Oh we are back to repealing Obamacare huh? Why do conservatives never learn?

Oh I’m sure once it becomes obvious to everyone, the Dems will be eager to help kill it. The only question is if it will be too late to fix the damage.

MechanicalBill on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

if employers started dumping health insurance en masse

IF?

Does the sun rise in the east? Given tax, health and regulatory burdens, you can guarantee that companies on the edge will first dump health care as a benefit and just pay the cheaper fine.

GarandFan on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

The Republicans will have to continue to be punished with electoral defeats until they learn or until a third party replaces them. As they are currently constituted, the GOP is useless as a vehicle to oppose the Democrats, as has been amply demonstrated over the last two years and in this most recent election.

My advice to you would be to forget about politics as a solution, and do what you can to prepare yourself for the coming fiscal collapse. I have been since late 2009 or so.

Doomberg on November 12, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Don’t get me wrong, Romney wasn’t my first choice. I voted for Gingrich. (For a variety of states reasons, no one liked Gingrich either, so I just can’t pick them, I guess.) I’m not happy with the Republican party because of Romney (who I knew would lose and was excoriated for by Buy Danish-say where is she anyway-and other Mittbots) and because they can’t get their asses together to run a campaign. This isn’t the 1980s and they had better learn from Ron Paul about running a grassroots campaign or disband.

I’m not looking for a political solution. I just want these aholes to leave us alone and not do any more damage than they already have. Fixing things would be too much to ask. As for preparing, I’m as prepared as I can be, but I’m self-employed and the vagaries of my practice are such that I can’t be sure I’ll have money coming on a consistent basis. Maybe I should start taking payment in gold, gas or giblets.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:56 AM

LIb friend was already complaining about how his insurance company limited the FSA to $2500 this year. Had no idea it was Obamacare. They just don’t know what is coming.

ctmom on November 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Yep. Just had the same thing where I work.

BallisticBob on November 12, 2012 at 11:57 AM

The only spending that’s going to stay cut is defense spending.

Steve Eggleston on November 12, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Obama is heading for equal take-home pay regardless of salary.
Maybe this will put ObamaCare before the death panel?

tomg51 on November 12, 2012 at 11:58 AM

The problem of “the uninsured” was a sham used to drive through Obamacare. The fact that 20,000,000 illegal aliens are specifically exempted from Obamacare demonstrates that.

slickwillie2001 on November 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Exactly.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Oh I’m sure once it becomes obvious to everyone, the Dems will be eager to help kill it. The only question is if it will be too late to fix the damage.

MechanicalBill on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Uh, no. The Dems will NEVER repeal Obamacare. Ever. They’ll try to fix it or replace it with single payer(which I still think is the entire intent of the law), but the idea that they’d admit government-run health care which they’ve been pushing for a century is wrong is wishful thinking.

Doughboy on November 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM

The real power the House GOP has is the coming need to raise the debt ceiling; the Dem’s need to feel a bit of pain.

Tater Salad on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Dream on. Boehner wants his caucus to fall in line and therefore, lock step. Not raise the debt ceiling? That’s a laugh.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM

I’m in for a world of hurt this next four years and I resent it profoundly.

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Not the next four years but the rest of your life. TSisHTF and congress isn’t going to change it and a Presidential Change in 2016 won’t do a whole to change it.

chemman on November 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Let the redistribution of wealth begin continue accelerate unabated.

UltimateBob on November 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Not the next four years but the rest of your life. TSisHTF and congress isn’t going to change it and a Presidential Change in 2016 won’t do a whole to change it.

chemman on November 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM

I know. I was just trying to be optimistic. ;P

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Give me an address and I have my old primary care physician call you. Or I can copy and post bills here.

Jerk.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Enough people did not believe Romney would either: really be willing, or able to repeal Obamacare a sentiment easy to understand in light of RomneyCare and Romney’s insistence that he loved mandates.

I didn’t believe him, but I voted for him anyway.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

.
What a gamble that would have been – eh? You must not have been around for the whole “Read my Lips” saga.

Even the Liberal scum would have crucified Romney for not going after a repeal as he had promised.

A Republican has to be flawless perfect for the Pravda media………….a Democrite….not so much.

The Revenger Lives.

FlaMurph on November 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM

No sense putting off till tomorrow something you can put off indefinitely.

Axe on November 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM

I know. I was just trying to be optimistic. ;P

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM

The only answer I see is to starve the beast. It will not be pleasant, but I don’t see an alternative.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Tax democrats. Special surcharge on the Hollywood liberal species.

kurtzz3 on November 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Federalism can defeat Obamacare.

Click my name for my writing on the subject.

Charlemagne on November 12, 2012 at 12:04 PM

“Cadillac” coverage was over $4,000 a month. I was carrying a rate sheet around for months since I would not have believed it.

Jerk.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:04 PM

The real power the House GOP has is the coming need to raise the debt ceiling; the Dem’s need to feel a bit of pain.

Tater Salad on November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

The GOPs first offer in debt ceiling talks:

“Lets remove the requirement for a federal debt limit”

That’ll fix’em. No more will they get to beat us over the head with these crazy credit line increase fights.

BobMbx on November 12, 2012 at 12:07 PM

dominigan on November 12, 2012 at 11:30 AM

I think it’s pretty plain that we don’t want our site used as a platform for secession, especially by commenters that want to turn every comment thread into that debate. That’s not a “free speech” issue; you’re welcome to have that debate at your own site. We’re not going to have it here, and if you and others insist on trying to hijack threads by posting about it off topic, you won’t be posting for very long here.

This will be our only warning on this matter.

Ed Morrissey on November 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Federalism can defeat Obamacare.

Click my name for my writing on the subject.

Charlemagne on November 12, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Nullification? That kind of thing? :(

http://www.bing.com/search?q=federal+blockade+of+texas+airports

Axe on November 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Everyone should get the exact same subsidy. Period. EVERY LAST PERSON SHOULD GET THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY. Whether you are in Massachusetts where insurance is most expensive, or some other place where it is much lower cost. Whether you make 16 trillion a year or sit on your lazy good for nothing ass. The exact same amount.

astonerii on November 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Own It Dems!
It’s your polished turd

Cosmop on November 12, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Oh we are back to repealing Obamacare huh? Why do conservatives never learn?

HotAirLib on November 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Defunding, not repealing. And it began months ago when the doc fix came up.

ObamaCare will collapse under its own idiocy. The the House has to do is sit tight outside of spending cuts and rolling back regulations. Both have already happened with alot more to come.

Yes we can!

Chuck Schick on November 12, 2012 at 12:11 PM

70k is not a high income, Joe. It’s just barely middle class. After all the taxes, fees and expenses one has to pay, do you know how much of that 70k is left? Not much.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Right, but the Average Wage is 26k, so while 70k may not seem like a lot, it still puts you in a top percentile, and that means that as far as Obamacare is concerned the govt is providing subsidies to almost all of the population. Utter insanity, and of course that aspect won’t remain. Insurance rates for are going way up without the subsidies.

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

I’m not happy with the Republican party because of Romney (who I knew would lose and was excoriated for by Buy Danish-say where is she anyway-and other Mittbots) and because they can’t get their asses together to run a campaign.

For those people who say “The problem was Mitt,” look at Mark Steyn’s post at NRO, who quotes:

Republican Senate candidates under-performed GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney in most of the important races of 2012.

In five races, the GOP candidate under-performed Romney by at least nine points. This includes Reps. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.) and Rick Berg (R-N.D.), who both lost in states that Romney carried by at least 13 points.

And that goes for the “it was fraud!” people too: more fraud for down ballot candidates? Pleeze.

bobs1196 on November 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Jerk.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Hey, I earn more than that and $2500 a month would not only be a hardship, it would be impossible. You realize that’s 30k a year right? Right off the top. Someone earning 90k has how much left after taxes, fees and expenses like rent, utilities, transportation and food?

Do you have any clue?

Even the Liberal scum would have crucified Romney for not going after a repeal as he had promised.

A Republican has to be flawless perfect for the Pravda media………….a Democrite….not so much.

The Revenger Lives.

FlaMurph on November 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM

What realistic chance did Romney have to repeal ObamaCare without a supermajority in the Senate? Yeah I was around for “read my lips”

You are quite correct the libs would have been all over it. Romney and his folks would be out saying “Gee, we tried but it just wasn’t possible. Sorry. Missed it by that much.”

What do politicians make as well as empty promises? They are expert at crafting lame excuses and laying blame.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Utter insanity, and of course that aspect won’t remain. Insurance rates for are going way up without the subsidies.

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

I agree. It’s insanity no matter what they do.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM

I swear these repubs don’t learn. Benedict Obama knows they don’t have the Testicular Fortitude to fight it out or they are in cahoots with the Traitor-in-chief and making a show for the sheeple, but the repubs will lay down & surrender like they always do. Personally, let it all expire. Let the Butcher of Benghazi have everything he wants and take away his cover. Let the animal start a depression with his policies and take the credit for the shiite he creates!
Fight the Obama Enemy media or Kiss the Constitution Goodbye: http://paratisiusa.blogspot.com/2012/09/an-open-letter-to-those-who-should-know.html?spref=tw

God Bless America!

paratisi on November 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM

70k is not a high income, Joe. It’s just barely middle class. After all the taxes, fees and expenses one has to pay, do you know how much of that 70k is left? Not much.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Right, but the Average Wage is 26k, so while 70k may not seem like a lot, it still puts you in a top percentile, and that means that as far as Obamacare is concerned the govt is providing subsidies to almost all of the population. Utter insanity, and of course that aspect won’t remain. Insurance rates for are going way up without the subsidies.

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

The great majority of income tax revenue comes from the middle class. If we subsidize the middle class with entitlements that mostly come from their own taxes, we accomplish nothing but dependence on government.

In the process we burn up probably half of that money through government bureaucracy, theft, fraud, and incompetence.

slickwillie2001 on November 12, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Ed Morrissey on November 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Thank you!

KS Rex on November 12, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Hey, I earn more than that and $2500 a month would not only be a hardship, it would be impossible. You realize that’s 30k a year right? Right off the top. Someone earning 90k has how much left after taxes, fees and expenses like rent, utilities, transportation and food?

Do you have any clue?

It was a rhetorical question.

I was making a point that health insurance is expensive. It did and does not make me popular here.

You made the assertion that I didn’t pay that. As I was nowhere near it.

Do you have a clue?

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Just do not get insurance until you are sick and pay the fine. Or better yet, do what I do and make certain you plan ahead and take as many w-4 exemptions as you can, so at the end of the year you owe uncle sam a tiny little bit, not enough to get other fines, but just enough that you are not giving uncle sam a free loan and he will not be able to confiscate the fine since the only way allowed right now is to deny a refund. Close to free health care as you can get. Then when you get sick demand the emerald encrusted solid platinum insurance plan, then once you are well, drop it like its hot.

astonerii on November 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Funny, everyone overlooks the obvious solution…just borrow the money from California, the dems there have done a good job of saving money, reducing costs, and balancing a budget…

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 12:23 PM

The great majority of income tax revenue comes from the middle class.
slickwillie2001 on November 12, 2012 at 12:20 PM

LOL, OMG LOL LOL ROTFLMGDMFAO LOL GASP OUCH my side!

astonerii on November 12, 2012 at 12:25 PM

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 12:23 PM

What shocks me is that California and Massachusetts keep functioning.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:26 PM

There’s very little danger of us falling back into recession, because of Obamacare kicking in, and tax rates increasing dramatically. We are in a DEPRESSION, baby, and it’s WORLDWIDE. There are NOT pools of capital available to be used to jump-start us out of where we are. THE MONEY ISN’T THERE. Obama administration policies since 2008, have basically guaranteed that we cannot build up enough of a head of steam to move this locomotive. The bad news is that what we have to look forward to is a worldwide grinding to a halt. The BOTTOM of this depression is STILL a long ways off chart-wise, when the DOW is near 5000, we might be approaching bottom. I suspect that Obamacare will be repealed, but it will not come easy.

bigmike on November 12, 2012 at 12:27 PM

astonerii on November 12, 2012 at 12:25 PM

There is a contention among liberals that FICA pays everything.

The comments of the Oracle from Omaha helped it along, too.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM

the top 25% of income earners pay 87% of all taxes, they earn 66k and above.
If you go to the top 10% they pay 70% of taxes and earn 112k a year and above…
Thus, the middle earners, 90k and below say, pay less than 30% of all taxes.

astonerii on November 12, 2012 at 12:29 PM

We’ve already stripped things down over the past two years but we can cut vack to the razors edge if we have too and hopefully survive. I think things will get much worse and the sooner the better. We need to make them own it. When they cant afford to pay out the freebies their supporters will turn on them. Ive always been optimistic but after talking to numerous small business owners and our own customers Im not seeing any silver linings at all. Im just praying it wont be as painful as I think its going to be.

ldbgcoleman on November 12, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Let’s be real about some numbers. For now we are all paying an increase in health insurance because of the $2800 fine for policies that don’t qualify (hint: none of them do). Once Obamacare if fully operational any employers still covering health insurance will dump their employees into the system and pay the $2800 fine. There is a progressively decreasing subsidy up to $89k. After that you pay for yours and everybody else’s insurance. For a family of four this means $12,000/yr.

txhsmom on November 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM

What shocks me is that California and Massachusetts keep functioning.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:26 PM

As if nothing is wrong…that’s the weird part…

Congress and spending is like an addiction, they have to hit rock bottom to seek a cure.

BTW, it’s not just the dems who are proposing spending…the Republicans have had their hand in the cookie jar…if they want to be re-elected, they go along with the program.

We just have to sit and wait, and watch for the addict’s to hit bottom…the problem is, congress and the elected officials are immune, they have placed themselves out of the harm’s way.

My God, how right was George Orwell??

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM

bigmike on November 12, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Be understanding with people.

They use recession as a shorthand for things getting worse.

In reality, most voters just worry about their own problems and the vague numbers in the media just become atmosphere.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM

OT: What the HELL is wrong with this site in that it bans posts with certain words in it? I can’t even link to an article about people from 19 states registering petitions to s——? I can’t even link to the article by itself because the link contains the s——- word.

Does this site stand for freedom of speech or not (or has that become another s—– word to be banned)?

I guess you’ll have to look it up yourself on… http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/11

dominigan on November 12, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Dude I know. I found this out last week. I simply typed in the Se(C)ede – of course without parenthesis – and it wouldn’t post. LOL…Morrisey and Allahpundit talk about liberty…but they dont’ want to go too far.

MoreLiberty on November 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Canada, which has been booming since Obama became President here, now sports a 15% federal corporate rate.

If Obama starts to drive corporations into Canada or even encourages companies to split their Canadian and American interests into separate companies Delaware will not be pleased. Delaware likes to vote Blue, yet profits mightily from their friendly treatment of corporations. It would be a nice “Elections have Consequences” moment when the politicians they like to vote for finally hit them in the pocketbook. As a conservative I am ready to grit my teeth and bear it. Blue states will absolutely be worse off. New York and California will be especially hard hit when the very rich differ income. I always say someone that makes 10 million a year can afford to make 1 million a year. Can the state survive it though?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/18/CALIFORNIA-SALES-TAX-REVENUE-NOSE-DIVES-BY-33-5

Theworldisnotenough on November 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Right, but the Average Wage is 26k

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

FWIW, by “26″ I think you mean “50″

The Schaef on November 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM

You had to pass it and re-elect Obama to find out what was in it America….hey nice work.

-

(as a tax, thanks to John Roberts and the Supreme Court)

Ed, thanks for reminding me.

CW on November 12, 2012 at 12:35 PM

I don’t know why the Republicans should be willing to do anything to try to “fix” Obamacare. They rammed it through without a single Republican vote, let them either live with it (and the consequences) or fix it without Republican votes.

jdp629 on November 12, 2012 at 12:35 PM

FWIW, by “26″ I think you mean “50″

The Schaef on November 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM

I think average is useless information, we need to know the median, which I think is 50kish.

astonerii on November 12, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Dude I know. I found this out last week. I simply typed in the Se(C)ede – of course without parenthesis – and it wouldn’t post. LOL…Morrisey and Allahpundit talk about liberty…but they dont’ want to go too far.

MoreLiberty on November 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM

No because they know a few “radical” posters will take over a thread…like you guys are trying to do now…as Ed says, start your own blog, and you have the freedom you so yearn for…

Meanwhile,

Budget cutters target ObamaCare subsidies as fiscal cliff approaches?

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Funny, everyone overlooks the obvious solution…just borrow the money from California, the dems there have done a good job of saving money, reducing costs, and balancing a budget…

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Ha! It’s probably too much to hope some Hollywood accountants have a come to Jesus meeting with some of their clients.

txhsmom on November 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM

My sister turned 65 and had to go on Medicare last year.

She is self employed and has to stay under an approximate (not
sure of exact number)income of $75,000.00 or her medicare monthly
premium doubles. This, along with the doubling that the fed
govt. is giving all medicare recipients starting in 2013 or 2014.

Then there is the supplemental insurance, the prescription drug
coverage and the fact that she is still paying 2.9% (I think)
to the fed govt. for medicare since she is still working.

She says it is a joke how little the fed. govt. medicare system
pays for her healthcare procedures; most is picked up by her supplemental insurance.

Then there are the healthcare/death panels. She says that her and her friends
sit around and say that they will have to get hip or knee replacement surgery if needed prior to the age of 70 or medicare
won’t pay. They seem to think that after 70, the govt. says
“too old”.

This is all mindboggling.

Amjean on November 12, 2012 at 12:38 PM

I am getting tired of fighting the good fight. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. Everyone sign up for subsidized insurance on the exchanges. Assets aren’t considered in determining if someone qualifies for a subsidy. Structure your income to allow you reduced income to qualify. The sooner this beheamoth collapes, the better.

bopbottle on November 12, 2012 at 12:39 PM

A guy I went to a MBA program with went to work in tax law.

I heard some strange things from him. The Kennedys cheating through FIJI on estate taxes, comments about trusts with other liberals and etc.

I don’t know about those since I was told that they were just urban legends.

Anyway, even he said that there was a point where people would leave a high tax area. He would have said “tipping point” but the talk was before that expression became common.

There are factors other than expenses and taxes or New York would be empty.

Yea and add crime, dirt, congestion, rudeness…

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:40 PM

No because they know a few “radical” posters will take over a thread…like you guys are trying to do now…as Ed says, start your own blog, and you have the freedom you so yearn for…

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM

I actually understand the difference between censoring speech via the government and a private individual censoring speech on his own website. HA can do what they want, unlike many of their views regarding other Americans. I love how establishment republicans attack liberty when it suites them. Continue your nose dive towards being a regional party.

MoreLiberty on November 12, 2012 at 12:42 PM

This is all mindboggling.

Amjean on November 12, 2012 at 12:38 PM

I’m boggled. See this mouth? Agape. Days now. :) I’m hoping there’s something in turkey stuffing with restorative power, or I might need a helmet.

Axe on November 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM

USI Affinity now handles the insurance for one of my Bar Associations. It was formerly Colburn. They are established firms.

They should verify the high rates and therefore the point I was trying to make.

Since I had two kids (and various adults I was helping) in $50K a year boarding schools, I don’t know much about $90,000 budgets but it doesn’t matter since I was just griping about high bills for health insurance.

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:46 PM

OT, say, where are the mittbots like joana (admirer of all things Paul Krugman and Chris Matthews)?

totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM

“Do people earning $90,000 need health care insurance subsidies?”

Well, when the annual cost of a healthcare policy bought on the open market can cost $10k to $24k, then the answer is “Yes they do.”

Old Fritz on November 12, 2012 at 12:54 PM

Well, when the annual cost of a healthcare policy bought on the open market can cost $10k to $24k, then the answer is “Yes they do.”

Old Fritz on November 12, 2012 at 12:54 PM

It’s not really an open market. Plus, coverage and policies are now dictated by the government. The government now runs health insurance, insurance companies are merely proxies for the government.

darwin on November 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM

He must have higher revenues to pay for this beast and he’ll never concede higher taxes. I say let go over the cliff and then we’ll sort through the rubble and begin again.

rplat on November 12, 2012 at 1:00 PM

D@mn you George Bush! See what you’ve done!!!

Lily on November 12, 2012 at 1:00 PM

I love how establishment republicans attack liberty when it suites them. Continue your nose dive towards being a regional party.

MoreLiberty on November 12, 2012 at 12:42 PM

I don’t think you see the irony in your post…

right2bright on November 12, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Do people making $90,000 need federal subsidies for health insurance?

Damned straight, they voted for Obama so they need their reward.

clippermiami on November 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM

This will be our only warning on this matter.

Ed Morrissey on November 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM

“Young Man, no give me that knife!”

Thwannnnnng.

Tenwheeler on November 12, 2012 at 1:27 PM

anotherJoe on November 12, 2012 at 11:39 AM

70k is not a high income, Joe. It’s just barely middle class. After all the taxes, fees and expenses one has to pay, do you know how much of that 70k is left? Not much.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 11:47 AM

No, it doesn’t go far. We’re in this bracket. Between $70-75K. It DOESN’T go far. I feel like we are barely middle class these days. And we live in TX where the cost of living is cheaper than many areas of the country. I am very very concerned about how we are going to survive when the first of the year comes.

JennM111 on November 12, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Doomberg on November 12, 2012 at 11:46 AM

I still think the issue is with the electorate. They wanted the free stuff and now they’re going to find out just how much that “free” stuff costs. Until they learn this difficult lesson guys like Obama that have no priciples will continue to win elections through lying to those that are too lazy to seek the truth. Let it burn.

Deano1952 on November 12, 2012 at 1:38 PM

$40,000/year -or- $19.23 per hour x 40hours/week

- $9,600 (Payroll, before you see your check)
- $2,084 (Penalty for Health Care)
- $2,500 (Bush Tax cuts not reinstated)
- $4,992 (12gal a week x 52 weeks at Obama’s Gas Price)
- $1,200 (Auto Insurance $100/mo x 12)
- $6,000 ($500/mo for Rent/mortgage x 12 months)
——————————————————-
$13,624/year -or- $262 per week

with that $262 you have too buy:

Food – 4800?
Clothing – ??
Electricity – $2400?
Heating Fuel (Natural Gas) $1200?
Cable Television – $1200?
Cell Phone Service – $600?

Ask yourself, Do you make $19.23/hour? Whats left at the end of the year? Where is that new laptop? New car? New Fridge? Carpet?

We tried to warn you, you didn’t listen. You called it racism, we called it common sense. No one to blame now, its YOUR mess. That’s all I will say on this matter. Politics is over for me for 4 more years, if we make it that long. Have a good day.

this was posted by my husband on another site. i think it is a good example to use as to just exactly why a lot of us conservatives are so upset by the election and its consequences. i realize that most of us understand this already but i am posting it as a way of expressing the issue simply to our liberal posters on this site. also to any conservatives out there who wish to share this feel free to !

katee bayer on November 12, 2012 at 1:42 PM

You know what? I can’t. Nor can many other posters on this site. I understand your position, but many of us didn’t vote for this crap and we are going to suffer. I can’t forgive the people who voted this guy back and I can’t forgive the people who decided not to vote at all because 1)Romney is Mormon; 2)there’s no difference between Romney and Obama; 3)Romney wasn’t their preferred candidate-take your pick. I’m in for a world of hurt this next four years and I resent it profoundly.
totherightofthem on November 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM

You don’t get it. When Mittness said repeal and replace and that RomneyCare works greatly, what part of any of the know facts did you not understand that you would be screwed with either candidate. Go ahead and hate me for not supporting either socialist — I don’t care because they’re both awful regardless of their party label. You ought to be mad at the GOPe for cramming McVain and Mittness as our options, not because of their conservative principles, but because it was their turn.

LIB!!!! Sorry that it will hurt many of us here but that is the prescription for us all.

AH_C on November 12, 2012 at 1:47 PM

You made the assertion that I didn’t pay that. As I was nowhere near it.

Do you have a clue?

IlikedAUH2O on November 12, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Ok, yours was a rhetorical question. Sorry this entire situation has me so angry I could spit nails.

dogsoldier on November 12, 2012 at 1:54 PM

“Do people making $90,000 need federal subsidies for health insurance?”

That depends greatly on where you live and your situation. In my county, trying to raise a family of four on one income at $90K/year is pretty hard unless you want to live in a ghetto.

Rent alone for a 3BR house built in the 1960′s on a postage stamp lot is going to cost you $3K/month ($36K/yr). Considering the state and local taxes (highest income taxes and sales taxes in the country) that takes you might end up with $50K/year to live on. After rent, that leaves you with $14K to feed/clothe your family for a year or a little over $1000/month for food, utilities, clothing, gasoline, etc. We also have the most expensive gas in the country.

$90K really isn’t the same from region to region.

crosspatch on November 12, 2012 at 1:55 PM

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