Onward, ObamaCare

posted at 2:21 pm on November 8, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

ObamaCare is no longer merely looming — it’s happening, and with the certainty that the health care law is here to stay, the federal bureaucracy is readying to unleash the floodgates of regulation-writing and logistical planning and make it rain on the health-care industry, the states, and the economy at large. Let the good times roll, via the WSJ:

When the law was passed in March 2010, legislators envisaged it extending coverage to 30 million Americans through a combination of state-run insurance exchanges where consumers could apply for federal tax credits toward the cost of premiums, and an expansion of the federal-state Medicaid program for low-income Americans.

Before that can happen, though, significant regulations must start flooding from Washington, including rules for how states and the federal government will operate new health-insurance exchanges where consumers can shop for policies.

Also expected are rules spelling out the terms on which insurers must accept all customers regardless of their medical history, rules governing how insurers can vary premiums based on age and more information about new requirements on employers and individuals to buy insurance.

While certain states have already made decisions about whether they will be setting up their own state insurance exchanges or allowing the federal government to run things on their behalf, others were waiting out the election, and now it’s crunch time to get things set up before the October 1st, 2013 date by which people should be able to start signing up for their new insurance options. With Republican governors running the majority of the states, the question is, refuse to participate in Obama’s scheme and let the feds run everything, or take on the task of creating your own exchange and mitigate the costs as much as possible? Via the Associated Press:

Some, like Rick Perry of Texas and Rick Scott of Florida, have drawn a line against helping carry out Obama’s law. … Missouri voters passed a ballot measure Tuesday that would prohibit establishment of a health insurance exchange unless the Legislature approves. …

… All eyes will be on pragmatists like Chris Christie of New Jersey and Bob McDonnell of Virginia, whose states have done considerable planning of their own to set up exchanges. …

On health insurance exchanges, some governors whose states aren’t likely to be completely ready are considering the administration’s offer of running the new markets through a partnership. …

A recent check by The Associated Press found 17 states and the District of Columbia on track to setting up their own exchanges, while nine have decided not to do so. The federal government could end up running the new markets in half or more of the states.

There is much administrative planning and social engineering still to figure out, but we can with certainty look forward to a lot more of this, again from the WSJ piece:

Jim Amos, CEO of frozen dessert franchiser Tasti D-Lite LLC, said employers who had been holding back on deciding how to respond to new requirements to provide insurance to full-time workers would now move ahead. “If you’re in a position where you want to move people from full-time to part-time jobs, you’re going to begin to do that,” he said, referring to a tactic some employers have tested to avoid the coming insurance requirements.

It’s already begun, via CBS:

A Las Vegas business owner with 114 employees fired 22 workers today, apparently as a direct result of President Obama’s re-election.

“David” (he asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons) told Host Kevin Wall on 100.5 KXNT that “elections have consequences” and that “at the end of the day, I need to survive.” …

“I’ve done my share of educating my employees. I never tell them which way to vote. I believe in the free system we have, I believe in the right to choose who they want to be president, but I did explain as a business owner that I have always put my employees first. I always made sure that when I went without a paycheck that [I] made sure they were paid. And I explained that I always put them first and unfortunately I’m at a point where I’m being forced to have to worry about me and my family now and a business that I built from just me to 114 employees.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5

We can look forward to the expiration of several tax cuts, including the Bush income tax cuts, the payroll tax holiday and the coming new taxes associated with Obamacare, which conveniently kick in after Election Day.

Quoting from the tax firm Ernst and Young, Edelman lists them:

– The federal capital gains tax rate will rise from 15 percent to a maximum of 24.7 percent

– The federal tax rate on dividends will rise from 15 percent to a maximum of 44.7 percent

– The federal tax rate on interest will rise from 15 percent to a maximum of 44.7 percent

– The payroll tax will rise from 4.2 percent to a maximum of 6.2 percent

– The estate tax, currently applicable to estates above $5 million, will be applied to estates worth just $1 million.

Many economists believe such large tax increases will lead to reduced consumer spending, sparking another recession.

TarheelBen on November 8, 2012 at 3:41 PM

Can we just get on with the business of economic then societal collapse already? And let’s hope it’s real nasty too. I want every last smug left-liberal/progressive/race voter/moocher to feel pain and death on an scale heretofore unimaginable. Reap what you sow suckas.

mapper on November 8, 2012 at 3:23 PM

It is thoroughly cathartic to believe and think this way. I’m coming to believe that they are incapable of understanding anything that happens in their lives.

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 3:25 PM

Exactly Mr. Daschle. I’m fully aware that I and my family (I have two beautiful, innocent kids under 5 for fcks sake!) may perish in whatever happens. While I’m not looking forward to it I understand it. When your country re-elects a marxist revolutionary hell bent on your destruction bad, bad sht is going to happen.

I just hope I survive long enough to watch a good portion of the “47%” suffer the fires of hell on earth. I’m done with these asshles.

mapper on November 8, 2012 at 3:42 PM

LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas) — A Las Vegas business owner with 114 employees fired 22 workers today, apparently as a direct result of President Obama’s re-election.

“David” (he asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons) told Host Kevin Wall on 100.5 KXNT that “elections have consequences” and that “at the end of the day, I need to survive.”

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/

E’s company is doing the same – dropping from 70+ employees to under 49 (the “magic” number) to avoid many of the Obama restrictions on employers.

She spent most of yesterday re-doing the ORG charts. Will spring it on the staff tomorrow.

email from a friend

DarrelsJoy on November 8, 2012 at 3:42 PM

Do you know how Cobra works? It’s only available for 6 to 12 months after you lose your job, although Congress did it extend for some unemployed a few years ago.

After that, you’re on your own and NO health insurance company is going to offer insurance to someone with a serious pre-existing condition.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Yes, I do. Are you trying to say the woman in the example didn’t know for 12 months after she left her job because of her condition that she needed healthcare? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? She knew she needed health insurance, she was leaving her job because she was sick! “Oh, I’m having to stop working because of my medical condition, but I’ll just let Cobra lapse . . .”

And as other have pointed out, her reason for leaving made her eligible for Medicare/caid, Social Security disability, etc. She qualified for existing medical insurance provided by the government if she couldn’t afford her Cobra payments. And you ignore the point that if she couldn’t afford her Cobra coverage back then, there’s NO WAY she’d be able to afford the premiums Obamacare is going to generate.

PastorJon on November 8, 2012 at 3:44 PM

I don’t feel any of Obama’s “revenge” but I won’t if ever again extend willingness to consider their points of view. Patience is over. They’ve shown their intent to ruin the USA to satisfy their demands and I won’t indulge them any longer.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Is it wrong for me to wish them nothing but the very worst, short of or including death? Cause that’s where I’m at now.

There’s an estranged friend of mine who’s a committed lib/socialist. I’ve broken off all ties with her and have started a war against her, mostly online. She wants a truce, but not only will I refuse, I will rachet it up to a total persecution of her aiming for total destruction.

That’s how it has to be. No alternative exists.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 3:44 PM

First, the UK spends only half as much as the US on healthcare and the structure of the systems is entirely different; there’s really no comparison between the US and UK to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of healthcare models. If you want to complain, start complaining how the US healthcare system will become comparable to France or Germany.

Let me help you get started:

And just like , this is terrible because

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 2:53 PM

The first relatively accurate post I have ever read from you on this site. My sister is a doctor in France and indeed the French healthcare model is vastly different from the NHS in the UK (I lived there too, for about 8 years) which is a total disaster and a disgrace. The French system works quite well, but that’s because it’s a mix of private insurance and socialized healthcare and France hasn’t hit the economic bottom yet,, when they do (and they are not too far with that idiot in power) their healthcare system will take a big hit too. Same is valid for the German system, only the Germans won’t hit the economic bottom too soon, they can still afford it. What you got wrong is that I do ‘t think our healthcare system here is heading the France or Germany direction, but the way I see itt, it’s closest to the Netherlands’ one, one of the few countries in Europe that doesn’t have a socialized system per se, but every one is mandated to buy insurance.

jimver on November 8, 2012 at 3:45 PM

My son-in-law is a physician. He says there will be concierge practices and a two- tier system. The best physicians, care and access for the rich, the crumbs for the middle class and the poor. Guess which way most of the physicians are going. And guess who will be whining that “it isn’t fair.”

southworth on November 8, 2012 at 3:38 PM

Yes, this has been going on now for a while, and it’s understandable that it has and is continuing.

Specialists incur massive debt to be who they are and the costs to operate offices and employ staffs just to service paperwork involved INORDER TO EVEN SEE patients are a huge weight to carry just to do your work.

The public sees a doctor in a BMW with a vacation home and private residence and resents their achievements. Until they need them medically and then they, hopefully, experience why physicians are paid well when they’re paid at all.

The public just wants Grannie-With-a-Hug-And-Cookies and they don’t want to have to pay Grannie or deal with her complaints when they don’t need a cookie and hug.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:45 PM

After that, you’re on your own and NO health insurance company is going to offer insurance to someone with a serious pre-existing condition.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM

What you guys never mention about ObamaCare is that insurance companies can charge up to 3x their average policy to these people.

It is you who are ignorant.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 3:46 PM

gop…..Permanent MINORITY Party in America!!

As long as they continue nominating Bob Dole, Gerald Ford, John McCain, faux Conservatives.

And they will. The loser party.

PappyD61 on November 8, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Do you know how Cobra works?… After that, you’re on your own and NO health insurance company is going to offer insurance to someone with a serious pre-existing condition.
 
bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM

 
Except for Social Security disability and medicare. But you’re just going to skip those posts, right?
 
Well done.

rogerb on November 8, 2012 at 3:46 PM

There’s an estranged friend of mine who’s a committed lib/socialist. I’ve broken off all ties with her and have started a war against her, mostly online. She wants a truce, but not only will I refuse, I will rachet it up to a total persecution of her aiming for total destruction.

That’s how it has to be. No alternative exists.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 3:44 PM

I left facebook after Obama was elected. I tried my best to inform friends, but they are incapable of learning. It all comes down to punishing the rich and murdering babies for them. That is it. That is the universe of their political ideology.

I have broken all ties with the liberal acquaintances I had.

Obama united America.

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Bayam, the French healthcare system has been in the red every year since the late 80′s, FYI.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Charlemagne on November 8, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Could not have said it better myself. We conservatives and libertarians need to start pushing states rights to the fore front. It is not only inherent in our design, but it is our only option at this point.

Meat Fighter on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

My son-in-law is a physician. He says there will be concierge practices and a two- tier system. The best physicians, care and access for the rich, the crumbs for the middle class and the poor. Guess which way most of the physicians are going. And guess who will be whining that “it isn’t fair.”

southworth on November 8, 2012 at 3:38 PM

You nailed it. But I don’t mind the two-tier system, besides it’s happening already. And it has for a while.

jimver on November 8, 2012 at 3:48 PM

It’s a lie that ObamaCare will solve a blasted thing. I love these people who complain about how insurance companies denied them some care. That government taking it over would fix it… and then what happens.. the government begins cutting costs by cutting.. gasp.. care! The freaking government is going to deny lots of people care. But unlike insurance companies.. you will not have any other options!

It was all a freaking lie!

If ObamaCare was itself an insurance company people would run to the government demanding it be fixed! Complaining that the costs were too high and they were being denied care!

What a freaking joke! But this is where we are!

JellyToast on November 8, 2012 at 3:48 PM

After the first debate I thought………WOW he wants to really win! Then he reverted to gracious McCain loser mode……..

And here we are………AGAIN.

The gop is DEAD.

PappyD61 on November 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM

People should also know that there is a 40% direct tax on so-called “Cadillac” plans.
 
Obamacare is an economic disaster and a disaster for our health care system.
 
TarheelBen on November 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM

 
People should also realize that “Cadillac” tax isn’t indexed to inflation, so it will soon hit more and more plans.
 
Since opinion pieces are all the rage:
 

In fact, according to the Joint Economic Committee,
 
The “Cadillac tax” on high-cost health care isn’t scheduled to take effect until 2018. But because the tax is linked to general inflation, and not medical inflation, it will hit more and more health plans over time – not just “Cadillac” insurance plans, but “Chevy” plans and even “Yugo” health plans.…The “high income” surtax is not indexed for inflation at all – it’s designed to hit more and more middle-income families every year. Page 87 of the 2010 Medicare trustees report notes that the tax will hit only 3 percent of workers next year, when the tax takes effect – but a whopping 79 percent of all workers by 2080.
 
- http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/nancy-pfotenhauer/2012/07/03/four-flaws-of-obamacare

rogerb on November 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM

My son-in-law is a physician. He says there will be concierge practices and a two- tier system. The best physicians, care and access for the rich, the crumbs for the middle class and the poor. Guess which way most of the physicians are going. And guess who will be whining that “it isn’t fair.”

southworth on November 8, 2012 at 3:38 PM

My doctor basically said the same thing, that even in countries with socialized medicine there’s always private insurance if you can afford it. She’s going to 2-3 days a week cash only taking no new patients because she didn’t go into medicine to be some bureaucrat. I have saved all my life for my retirement years thinking I could get that lakefront property I always dreamed about but it looks like that’s gone. I’ll need that money for a new hip or chemo if I need it down the road, that is, if I want to live.

TxAnn56 on November 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM

So, I bid you the fondest of farewells – the best outcome for each of you in these challenging times and my prayers for your well being. God bless you all –

natasha333 on November 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Please hold the door open. I’m right behind you.

Frank Enstine on November 8, 2012 at 3:51 PM

I don’t feel any of Obama’s “revenge” but I won’t if ever again extend willingness to consider their points of view. Patience is over. They’ve shown their intent to ruin the USA to satisfy their demands and I won’t indulge them any longer.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Is it wrong for me to wish them nothing but the very worst, short of or including death? Cause that’s where I’m at now.

There’s an estranged friend of mine who’s a committed lib/socialist. I’ve broken off all ties with her and have started a war against her, mostly online. She wants a truce, but not only will I refuse, I will rachet it up to a total persecution of her aiming for total destruction.

That’s how it has to be. No alternative exists.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 3:44 PM

I can’t tell you whether or not that’s “wrong” of you or not — I wouldn’t wish death on anyone, but that’s my moral code — but I do believe, and quite strongly, that willingly associating with people who you have deemed are engaged in evil, who promote evil as good, who claim their sins or evil deeds are good and vice-versa, to associate with them in any supportive sense is to “share” their wrongs.

I’m of the view that though we shouldn’t outright refuse aid to a bad person who is suffering, nor fail to “associate” with them to the degree that we can assist them if necessary, that we should not lend support to their decisions and/or views that led them to be who they are if they’re unrepentent and otherwise determined in their views, beliefs, actions.

I won’t associate with Leftwingers any longer or in any communal sense (where there can be assumed I am lending support or granting agreement with them, their views, actions) but I would, still, aid them if they were suffering or in danger. I’d also be clear that aiding or assisting them didn’t represent me agreeing with them or contributing to their views, beliefs.

I cease interacting with people like you describe for the main reason that they’re depressing and it weighs my life down. They feed off the good intentions of others and all others ever do is lose bloood because of it and eventually weaken themselves.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:51 PM

Do you know how Cobra works?… After that, you’re on your own and NO health insurance company is going to offer insurance to someone with a serious pre-existing condition.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I dealt with COBRA a number of years ago. Once your employer’s premium rate expires you will then be switched-notice I said switched-to another plan with the same insurer if you are interested in staying with that insurer. I had to switch to an individual plan since my group plan expired. You can stay with the insurer of your former employer (which I would recommend, but it’s moot now with Ocare) or move to a different insurer. Had this woman wanted to, she could have purchased an individual policy with the same insurer and would not be subject to any preexisting condition questions. All she had to do was be organized enough to explore her options with the insurer before the expiration date. That she chose not to do so isn’t a reason to overhaul an entire system.

totherightofthem on November 8, 2012 at 3:51 PM

We’ve been trying ot explain it to the common, uninformed voter since 2009.

And so it begins…


We can look forward to the expiration of several tax cuts, including the Bush income tax cuts, the payroll tax holiday and the coming new taxes associated with Obamacare, which conveniently kick in after Election Day.

Quoting from the tax firm Ernst and Young, Edelman lists them:

– The federal capital gains tax rate will rise from 15 percent to a maximum of 24.7 percent

– The federal tax rate on dividends will rise from 15 percent to a maximum of 44.7 percent

– The federal tax rate on interest will rise from 15 percent to a maximum of 44.7 percent

– The payroll tax will rise from 4.2 percent to a maximum of 6.2 percent

– The estate tax, currently applicable to estates above $5 million, will be applied to estates worth just $1 million.

Many economists believe such large tax increases will lead to reduced consumer spending, sparking another recession.

TarheelBen on November 8, 2012 at 3:41 PM

Tenwheeler on November 8, 2012 at 3:51 PM

Germany’s system is multi-payer and universal. You can opt for either a government insurance plan or a private insurance plan.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:14 PM

You don’t hear about the problems. One example: If you are 55 and have been privately insured, you cannot go back to government insurance. You can imagine what that means to people who have been privately insured and lose their business. They will be uninsured for the rest of their lives.

Another example: If you are insured with your spouse and get divorced, you lose your insurance. You have to enroll within 3 months into an insurance for yourself. If you forget that you can only get insured if you marry again.

Then there are people who can’t afford their government insurance. If you haven’t paid for two or three months, you are not insured any more. That happens quite often to freelancers and one-man businesses.

It’s the same in all countries with universal insurance. If you can’t pay, you are out. The unreported numbers of uninsured people are the same in all countries, about 5-10%.

I know that because it happened to me.

Gelsomina on November 8, 2012 at 3:53 PM

And you’re ignorant. People are denied healthcare every day in this country. Hospitals are only required to treat immediate threats to life and insurance can reject applicants due to the most minor pre-existing condition. Lose your job with a serious condition? You may not survive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=0

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Hahahahahahaha! Okay, now that I’ve stopped laughing… First of all, if you’re going to advance an intelligent argument, you don’t start with Nicholas Kristof or the New York Slimes. They both have Obama wet dreams. Second, whether you lose your job or not, if you are already insured, you can get insurance. It’s called portability, and it only requires a letter from your insurer that says you’ve been insured. Third, if you have a life threatening condition, by your own admission, hospitals have to treat you. Nobody is actually denied health care in this country. Insurance, yes; actual health care, no. In addition, Ocare will not cover everyone. There are still millions who slip through the cracks of this hasty, poorly conceived plan. Just as in the Patriot Act, a hasty behemoth of a bad law cannot bode well for the future.

College Prof on November 8, 2012 at 3:53 PM

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

I tweet (click on my name), and that simulcasts on Facebook, so it’s not like I’ve left that arena completely. To a point. I have some business connections as well as some strident conservatives that I’ve allied with on FB.

But there’s something about gunning for personal revenge and ruining someone’s life that now makes me happy inside. After all, it’s what she voted for. So I’m more than happy to give it to her.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Do you know how Cobra works? It’s only available for 6 to 12 months after you lose your job, although Congress did it extend for some unemployed a few years ago.

After that, you’re on your own and NO health insurance company is going to offer insurance to someone with a serious pre-existing condition.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM

How depressing it must be to be a liberal. The slightest upset or bump in a liberal’s world leaves him/her helpless and hopeless because they aren’t capable of solving their own problems.

Either that, or they spend their time trying to suck corroboration for their anxieties from other people’s lives, like you have with this girl. None of the common sense/truthful responses to your whining has affected you or dissuaded you from your diatribe in the least little bit.

There are problems with healthcare. Oh freakin’ dear!! Let’s not fix it, whatever we do. Let’s scrap it completely and let the government take it over. They’ve done so well with everything else, haven’t they.

The beauty of this is liberals are about to get the crap sandwiches they voted for – shoved down their throats. I will enjoy watching it.

AubieJon on November 8, 2012 at 3:54 PM

The French system works quite well, but that’s because it’s a mix of private insurance and socialized healthcare and France hasn’t hit the economic bottom yet,, when they do (and they are not too far with that idiot in power) their healthcare system will take a big hit too. Same is valid for the German system, only the Germans won’t hit the economic bottom too soon, they can still afford it. What you got wrong is that I do ‘t think our healthcare system here is heading the France or Germany direction, but the way I see itt, it’s closest to the Netherlands’ one, one of the few countries in Europe that doesn’t have a socialized system per se, but every one is mandated to buy insurance.

Even people on the right with first-hand knowledge of systems in France or Germany understand that healthcare delivery in those countries is far from a government-run disaster. I know a bunch of Apple designers originally from France who are always puzzled by the complexity of US healthcare that in their experience has never delivered better care.
And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model. Some of the left would push this country toward the UK system- and hopefully you can help people understand why there are better models. Moving the US system closer to the German alternative is possible, but unfortunately those opposed to the current healthcare mandate have never proposed it as an alternative.
In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

I am not one of these people, though, who believe once it is enacted it cannot be repealed or replaced. Anything can happen.

Once it starts there is going to be a lot of misery and there will still be enough people around who will remember when things were better. Saying it can’t be undone is a lie originated in the depths of hell by Satan himself! All it takes are people willing to do it!
Democrats have no problem ramming ObamaCare down America’s throats against the wishes of Americans! Conservatives need to be willing to ram freedom down Americans throat whether they like it or not!

But as for it being repealed. Nothing ever has to be repealed. You simple nullify the old law by making a new law. It happens all the time in congress. I spoke with a congressman and he said the same thing and acted surprised I thought of it. Like it was somehow a big secret. He said congress does that all the time. They pass new laws that superseded the old ones.

Just pass the “ObamaCare Amendment Act” with a simple majority and presto… you’ve got rid of ObamaCare. Pass some kind of new law that totally takes the meat out of the old one and it dies. It is not this hard. They want us all to think it is but it isn’t. If we have the people willing to do it and willing to run the right campaigns it is there!

JellyToast on November 8, 2012 at 3:56 PM

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

You left out gay marriage which for the life of me I don’t understand why anyone who is not gay cares. One of the many mysteries of the liberal mind I guess.

Frank Enstine on November 8, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Bayam, the French healthcare system has been in the red every year since the late 80′s, FYI.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

The French are also looking at 80 to 90 percent in taxes.

And leaving France for England when they want to remain in business for themselves.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:56 PM

“Carry On, My Jackass Son…”

squint on November 8, 2012 at 3:56 PM

After the first debate I thought………WOW he wants to really win! Then he reverted to gracious McCain loser mode……..

And here we are………AGAIN.

The gop is DEAD.

PappyD61 on November 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM

It doesn’t matter. Akin and Mourdock had to get off message and open their ignorant pie holes. We had a very tough road to 51 once those two committed suicide. Harry Reid wouldn’t have let repeal even come to the floor.

I said for months, Romney mattered much less than control of both houses. Romney was just the signer of a conservative agenda, leadership of it would have to take place in the legislative branch. We held the House, but idiots cost us the Senate.

PastorJon on November 8, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Even people on the right with first-hand knowledge of systems in France or Germany understand that healthcare delivery in those countries is far from a government-run disaster. I know a bunch of Apple designers originally from France who are always puzzled by the complexity of US healthcare that in their experience has never delivered better care.
And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model. Some of the left would push this country toward the UK system- and hopefully you can help people understand why there are better models. Moving the US system closer to the German alternative is possible, but unfortunately those opposed to the current healthcare mandate have never proposed it as an alternative.
In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

France’s healthcare system has been running annual deficits since the late 80s, FYI.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 3:58 PM

After the first debate I thought………WOW he wants to really win! Then he reverted to gracious McCain loser mode……..

And here we are………AGAIN.

The gop is DEAD.

PappyD61 on November 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM

And you reverted to your morose, whiny-self! :) have fun!! :). Btw, you sure you’re on the right thread, it’s an obamacare thread, in case you missed this little detail.

jimver on November 8, 2012 at 3:58 PM

You left out gay marriage which for the life of me I don’t understand why anyone who is not gay cares. One of the many mysteries of the liberal mind I guess.

Frank Enstine on November 8, 2012 at 3:56 PM

It’s very much group think. Especially in liberal land, it’s the whole pie or none of it. You can’t be in their circles if you’re for Obamacare but against gay marriage. You swallow it all or you don’t get any of it.

PastorJon on November 8, 2012 at 3:58 PM

It’s called portability, and it only requires a letter from your insurer that says you’ve been insured. Third, if you have a life threatening condition, by your own admission, hospitals have to treat you.

And it can be priced at any amount determined by the insurer, which is typically astronomical for those with pre-existing conditions.
You’re over-simplyfying the life threatening condition mandate. If you require an organ transplant or cancer treatment because those conditions will kill you at some point in the future, hospitals are not required to provide covered to the uninsured. You will only receive treatment for an imminent threat to your life.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

southworth on November 8, 2012 at 3:38 PM

TxAnn56 on November 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Under Obamacare you can’t pay for medical care, even if you have the means to, once the death panel says no. I’m not joking. You will have to go out of country.

txhsmom on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

visions on November 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM

.
First, the UK spends only half as much as the US on healthcare and the structure of the systems is entirely different; there’s really no comparison between the US and UK to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of healthcare models.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 2:53 PM

.
If we keep going unchecked with “Obama Care”, we will become like the UK model, shortly.

The UK spends half as much as us, because they have less than half the total medical services than what the U.S. currently provides.

listens2glenn on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.
 
bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

 
Written while completely ignoring the Social Security/Medicare posts. Well done.
 
Regardless, well said, and thanks for confirming that it’s little more than a faith-based issue to the believers.

rogerb on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

You left out gay marriage which for the life of me I don’t understand why anyone who is not gay cares. One of the many mysteries of the liberal mind I guess.

Frank Enstine on November 8, 2012 at 3:56 PM

It is no mystery. It is the elevation of all the basest human traits. That is the defining trait of the liberal. There is no unsavory act, no debasement, no immorality that can be imagined or acted on that they won’t champion or rationalize. The world is a very dark place. America was a beacon of light for awhile. Alas, we are descending into a darkness that many will not have the imagination to foresee or the stomach to endure.

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 4:00 PM

txhsmom on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Does that mean they come to Texas and join us?

derft on November 8, 2012 at 4:00 PM

About a year ago I began shifting my book of business from selling health insurance to other lines of business. I feel even better about that decision today. I had been debating for months to keep growing my existing business or look for another ship. Since the government was shooting flaming arrows at the healthcare boat as many of us tried to row it along, I decided to jump ship.

I don’t see how the carriers can remain in business and if they do, they will be dropping agents mark words. Agents have long been the advocate of the client and have helped keep costs down by shopping the market for clients and navigating all of the confusing plans for them.

USBB on November 8, 2012 at 4:00 PM

I don’t feel any of Obama’s “revenge” but I won’t if ever again extend willingness to consider their points of view. Patience is over. They’ve shown their intent to ruin the USA to satisfy their demands and I won’t indulge them any longer.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Is it wrong for me to wish them nothing but the very worst, short of or including death? Cause that’s where I’m at now.

There’s an estranged friend of mine who’s a committed lib/socialist. I’ve broken off all ties with her and have started a war against her, mostly online. She wants a truce, but not only will I refuse, I will rachet it up to a total persecution of her aiming for total destruction.

That’s how it has to be. No alternative exists.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 3:44 PM

I can’t tell you whether or not that’s “wrong” of you or not — I wouldn’t wish death on anyone, but that’s my moral code — but I do believe, and quite strongly, that willingly associating with people who you have deemed are engaged in evil, who promote evil as good, who claim their sins or evil deeds are good and vice-versa, to associate with them in any supportive sense is to “share” their wrongs.

I’m of the view that though we shouldn’t outright refuse aid to a bad person who is suffering, nor fail to “associate” with them to the degree that we can assist them if necessary, that we should not lend support to their decisions and/or views that led them to be who they are if they’re unrepentent and otherwise determined in their views, beliefs, actions.

I won’t associate with Leftwingers any longer or in any communal sense (where there can be assumed I am lending support or granting agreement with them, their views, actions) but I would, still, aid them if they were suffering or in danger. I’d also be clear that aiding or assisting them didn’t represent me agreeing with them or contributing to their views, beliefs.

I cease interacting with people like you describe for the main reason that they’re depressing and it weighs my life down. They feed off the good intentions of others and all others ever do is lose bloood because of it and eventually weaken themselves.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:51 PM

I have had to give up the one thing I love – being a part of the operating committee for a local Special Olympics event – because she’s a part of it and will never leave.

That alone breaks my heart. It’s something that I’ve been involved with for 12 years until now. But I want nothing to do with her.

And it’s mildly surprising that no one is calling me out saying, “at least you’re wrong to wish death on her.” But my conscience took an extended holiday at Rio, and it looks like it won’t be coming back.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 4:01 PM

In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

Actually the GOP was walking toward the negotiation room with other options, more free market, filling in gaps in existing government healthcare, but the democrats slammed the door in their face and we got a monstrosity that is headed to 18,000 pages of regulations for business to manage and understand. There will be whole industries of people to interpret it for businesses, unfortunately not enough jobs created by them to make up for the massive layoffs coming.

PastorJon on November 8, 2012 at 4:01 PM

And it can be priced at any amount determined by the insurer, which is typically astronomical for those with pre-existing conditions.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

ObamaCare forces insurance companies to offer policies to those with pre-existing conditions. But they are allowed to charge them 3x the cost of their average policy cost.

Care to take a guess what’s going to happen to average policy cost?

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 4:02 PM

My friend didn’t want to discuss it and left waving his hands in the air, unwilling to admit what he is participating in.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Tell your cultural catholic friend that the Bishops have stated in unison that the immortal souls of every catholic were in grave jeopardy through collusion that endorses intrinsic evil contradictory to official Catholic doctrine and moral teaching.

In short your friends loyalty to the earthly democratic party has made him an enemy of the Church established by Christ and administered through the Papacy by the apostolic successor of St. Peter.

His immortal soul is in grave jeopardy and this trumps politics.

He can shrug that fact off to his peril but it doesn’t change the result…and he will be judged like the rest of us. He and all of us were warned.

The USCCB warned Catholics to vote their conscience and every catholic knew what they meant by that…It was extraordinary…Catholics are either on the Bark of St. Peter fighting intrinsic evil or they are not.

Democrats can put us through hell but they can’t condemn us to it.

Personal sin is personal but becoming an avowed enemy to the entire Body of Christ is in another category altogether and if he seeks the Eucharist while avoiding this reality he compounds one grave sin with another even greater sin.

Your friend had better confess, change his enemy status toward the church through action and repent if he hopes to avoid Hell….cause that’s forever.

Politics changes…Christ’s teaching doesn’t.

Christ won’t care about your friends political excuses…He will know the enemy to his flock.

workingclass artist on November 8, 2012 at 4:02 PM

In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

Given the way it was devised, written, voted on and enacted; can you you really blame those opposed to it.
There was no debate. The Republicans were COMPLETEY shut out of the formulation process.

Jabberwock on November 8, 2012 at 4:03 PM

So, let’s fantasize here for a moment.

We sweep both houses of Congress and win the Presidency in 2016. Will the GOP still vote to repeal O-care and if so, what will be the consequences?

As if we will ever be in power again.

Rixon on November 8, 2012 at 4:03 PM

Bayam..the problem is that when you make a mistake like you did on COBRA that may mean that you are just full of it…you aren’t well informed.

COBRA lasts for 18 months. That is a simple fact that anyone with any knowledge of healthcare insurance provided by their employer knows. So you are ill-informed and probably a half-wit

r keller on November 8, 2012 at 4:03 PM

States and people should have freedom from the federal government.

El_Terrible on November 8, 2012 at 2:42 PM

DITTO.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 4:04 PM

My son-in-law is a physician. He says there will be concierge practices and a two- tier system. The best physicians, care and access for the rich, the crumbs for the middle class and the poor. Guess which way most of the physicians are going. And guess who will be whining that “it isn’t fair.”

southworth on November 8, 2012 at 3:38 PM

You nailed it. But I don’t mind the two-tier system, besides it’s happening already. And it has for a while.

jimver on November 8, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Can you say, Soviet Union?

riddick on November 8, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Here’s one of the ways the President will pay for Obamacare.

Then new Barack Special Luxe, concept care of the future.

Speakup on November 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM

So, I bid you the fondest of farewells – the best outcome for each of you in these challenging times and my prayers for your well being. God bless you all –

natasha333 on November 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Farewell and have a happy life. You will be missed.

I am not far behind you with much soul searching to do in the next few weeks.

JPeterman on November 8, 2012 at 3:21 PM

God Bless you natasha,
I will be coming to QOTD tonight to do the same, spent last evening snuggling with my family and while it was with worry and tears it was more enjoyable than the other.

MontanaMmmm on November 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Bayam, the French healthcare system has been in the red every year since the late 80′s, FYI.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

That’s a good point, and it doesn’t pay doctors nearly as well as in the US (but doctors get free education and tort protection).
The French system runs at an annual cost at 11% of GDP according to the budget. It’s actual cost is higher, maybe 12.5% of GDP. But the French have yet to introduce even the most basic reforms, such as a serious deductible for doctor’s visits.
The US system is estimated to cost almost 2x as much.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Under Obamacare you can’t pay for medical care, even if you have the means to, once the death panel says no. I’m not joking. You will have to go out of country.

txhsmom on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

I should have added that part since my doctor had said that people will be going overseas to get treatment if they have the money.

TxAnn56 on November 8, 2012 at 4:08 PM

And yet another post avoiding the discussion about SS/Medicare as it relates to the cited opinion piece.
 
Well done.

rogerb on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

txhsmom on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM
Does that mean they come to Texas and join us?
derft on November 8, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Sounds good to me!

txhsmom on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Even people on the right with first-hand knowledge of systems in France or Germany understand that healthcare delivery in those countries is far from a government-run disaster. I know a bunch of Apple designers originally from France who are always puzzled by the complexity of US healthcare that in their experience has never delivered better care.
And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model. Some of the left would push this country toward the UK system- and hopefully you can help people understand why there are better models. Moving the US system closer to the German alternative is possible, but unfortunately those opposed to the current healthcare mandate have never proposed it as an alternative.
In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

You are correct…I like the German healthcare model myself.

Obama used the individual Insurance mandate because that’s what conservatives wanted when Hillary-care was proposed. That is also what Romney came up with, and he is a brilliant problem solver. The insurance mandate was endorsed by Rush Limbaugh!!! Obama hired some of the same consultants that Romney had hired, and he came up with the same conclusions. Obama would have done almost anything to appease Republicans to get them to support health care reform. Republicans knew that this would get Obama re-elected, so they decide to become 100% petty obstructionists.

The individual insurance mandate was a great conservative idea that only became a bad idea when Obama agreed with it.

ZippyZ on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

I tweet (click on my name),

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Following :)

I havent been active on twitter for a few years…

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

the worst part of obama.care is the sneering hatred for Drs that barry has. (of course, he has a sneering hatred for anyone that doesn’t toe the line)

we have reached a point of disgrace in this country when drs are seen as the enemy…lazy, greedy, corrupt and need to be under the thumb of obama and his henchmen

oh, and one reason that our h/c care is expensive is that other countries screw our pharma…and we pick up the tab

socialist countries need a lot of support from other countries…someone in the world has to generate the wealth…and for the longest time that would be us.

r keller on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Do you know how Cobra works? It’s only available for 6 to 12 months after you lose your job, although Congress did it extend for some unemployed a few years ago.

After that, you’re on your own and NO health insurance company is going to offer insurance to someone with a serious pre-existing condition.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM

You right. Bad things happen to people! So why should I be forced to pay for your pre-existing condition? Tell me that? There is no freaking Utopia! The money does not come out of the freaking sky!
So if I don’t want to pay for your pre-existing condition I should go to jail?
Your system does not work, pal! It does not work! At some point in time you run out of money! How about the people who die in the hallway waiting for hours for a socialized doctor? Don’t they matter to you? Why is your pre-existing condition so much more important than the man dying in the hallway with a ruptured ependix because nobody can find a freaking doctor in the government run hospital? The evidence of the failure of government run medicine is all over the world! The US had the best medicine and care there ever was when it was free of government regulations! People like you have blood on their hands because you demand others pay for your care at the expense of the lives and care of still others! Oh.. is that harsh? Well your system is harsh too! My mother is old and in a personal care home and has undergone several surgeries but if ObamaCare was fully implemented right now she would already be dead! And you would be ok with that because you demand others pay for all of your care! So.. some must go without so that others have it all. Where have I heard that before?

JellyToast on November 8, 2012 at 4:10 PM

That’s a good point, and it doesn’t pay doctors nearly as well as in the US (but doctors get free education and tort protection).
The French system runs at an annual cost at 11% of GDP according to the budget. It’s actual cost is higher, maybe 12.5% of GDP. But the French have yet to introduce even the most basic reforms, such as a serious deductible for doctor’s visits.
The US system is estimated to cost almost 2x as much.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 4:06 PM

No, nearly twice is spent on healthcare in the US. Let me know if you don’t understand the difference.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 4:10 PM

In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

.
No matter where you are in the world, you are either for Capitalism, or Socialized Government.
There is no “in between”, because there cannot be any.

listens2glenn on November 8, 2012 at 4:11 PM

So, let’s fantasize here for a moment.

We sweep both houses of Congress and win the Presidency in 2016. Will the GOP still vote to repeal O-care and if so, what will be the consequences?

As if we will ever be in power again.

Rixon on November 8, 2012 at 4:03 PM

If you want to take that LSD trip, it will be too late by then to repeal because most of it will already be implemented. The best they could probably do is legislation to change parts of it. I could be wrong. But with the changing demographics and mass legal immigration of dem voters, that scenario is definitely a fantasy. I hear Switzerland is nice this time of the year though.

TxAnn56 on November 8, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Let me know if you don’t understand the difference.
 
Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 4:10 PM

 
The best way to tell is when he stops discussing his citation and then complains that there is no depth to the debate.

rogerb on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

It has already failed as premiums have already gone up dramatically, something that the press is loathe to admit. Turns out that when you force companies to insure burning houses, they are going to charge everyone more. Who’d a thunk it? Bur it’s okay, when all those stray eyed young folk will be forced to buy insurance even though they don’t need it, I’m sure they won’t blame Obama.

People forget that much of the expanded coverage is a Medicaid expansion. I’m a doctor, and we know that Medicaid is essentially charity care and treat it happily for a certain percent of patients, but when your schedule is full of charity care, your bottom line collapses. That’s right, we’ll end up with a two tiered system with a Canadian level of care staffed mainly by Indian and Pakistani graduate doctors (some of whom are good, but have accent and cultural differences with most of their patients) and a luxury level. This already exists in some areas where there are few doctors and Obamacare does nothing, nothing to increase the number of doctors in those areas.

xuyee on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

starry eyed

xuyee on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

I hope you’re happy.

C’mon, guys…don’t you want free stuff supplied by the greedy rich such as primo healthcare?

Jeez, you all are as bad as the Capital One baby girl that doesn’t want the free money Jimmy Fallon is offering.

Sheesh.

/

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Even people on the right with first-hand knowledge of systems in France or Germany understand that healthcare delivery in those countries is far from a government-run disaster. I know a bunch of Apple designers originally from France who are always puzzled by the complexity of US healthcare that in their experience has never delivered better care.
And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model. Some of the left would push this country toward the UK system- and hopefully you can help people understand why there are better models. Moving the US system closer to the German alternative is possible, but unfortunately those opposed to the current healthcare mandate have never proposed it as an alternative.
In this country, you’re either for or against Obamacare, there’s no depth or real substance to the debate. It’s really unfortunate.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

I can see where your French colleague comes from on that, and he is partially right, but that’s mainly because the complexity of paperwork, insurance-related etc, and all falls on the doctors in France. My sister who is a cardiovascular surgeon is literally snowed under the amount of paperwork she has to fill in for her patients., though she’s a hospital doctor, and you’d expect less of that falling directly on her. But no, she has no less than three assistant/secretaries to help her with the paperwork part related to patients and their insurance, on top of the medical/specialist paperwork. But indeed, the hassle is less on the patients there, bureaucracy-wise, it’s on the doctors. But make no mistake, the French system is pretty bureaucratic , but as I said it works well still, and people there are much used to a heavy bureaucracy than here. As for models, I agree, if we have to go that way, the Netehrland model is the best suited for the US, followed by the German and the French one (if there are enough money in the system to sustain them). But NEVER the UK and/or the Canadian models, are the worst possible to emulate.cand sure losers at every level.

jimver on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

No, nearly twice is spent on healthcare in the US. Let me know if you don’t understand the difference.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Cost is usually calculated as a % of GDP or in dollars per person.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

My friend didn’t want to discuss it and left waving his hands in the air, unwilling to admit what he is participating in.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Tell your cultural catholic friend that the Bishops have stated in unison that the immortal souls of every catholic were in grave jeopardy through collusion that endorses intrinsic evil contradictory to official Catholic doctrine and moral teaching.

In short your friends loyalty to the earthly democratic party has made him an enemy of the Church established by Christ and administered through the Papacy by the apostolic successor of St. Peter.

His immortal soul is in grave jeopardy and this trumps politics.

He can shrug that fact off to his peril but it doesn’t change the result…and he will be judged like the rest of us. He and all of us were warned.

The USCCB warned Catholics to vote their conscience and every catholic knew what they meant by that…It was extraordinary…Catholics are either on the Back of St. Peter fighting intrinsic evil or they are not.

Democrats can put us through hell but they can’t condemn us to it.

Personal sin is personal but becoming an avowed enemy to the entire Body of Christ is in another category altogether and if he seeks the Eucharist while avoiding this reality he compounds one grave sin with another even greater sin.

Your friend had better confess, change his enemy status toward the church through action and repent if he hopes to avoid Hell….cause that’s forever.

Politics changes…Christ’s teaching doesn’t.

Christ won’t care about your friends political excuses…He will know the enemy to his flock.

workingclass artist on November 8, 2012 at 4:02 PM

You sound just like my mother, who is better able to articulate a proper defense of Christ and the Church than I ever could.

The way this is ending up, there WILL be a schism between these two factions of the Church. At this point… let it happen. I’d rather have a solid core Church tied to the Vatican than have it be continually torn apart by heretics who believe in Nancy Pelosi’s “word.”

Oh, and BTW, the bishops should not only excommunicate Dem Catholic pols like Pelosi and Biden for life, but their entire extended family should be expelled. A clear statement needs to be made here.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

ZippyZ on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

idiot dopehead’s youtube channel…

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Cost is usually calculated as a % of GDP or in dollars per person.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

No, that’s dollars spent per GDP, not the cost of healthcare. There’s no accounting for volume purchased. Let me know if you need me to explain further.

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Could not have said it better myself. We conservatives and libertarians need to start pushing states rights to the fore front. It is not only inherent in our design, but it is our only option at this point.

Meat Fighter on November 8, 2012 at 3:47 PM

I told that guy yesterday 3 times, States Exerting their Rights is the road to succession. Do you really think for a minute that the Feds are going to let States do what they want, keep their money, not pay taxes, and flaunt the law?

No.

The Feds first response will be to withhold hiway/medicare money. BTW thats the WHOLE reason MITTCARE was ever invented, so Mass. could wrangle in MORE MEDICARE money. Thats how desperate/petty the States are.

The next step is for the State to keep their own Federal Taxes.

Do you really think the Feds are gonna stand for that.
They will use force of arms to force the State to do whatever it wants.

At that point you are talking civil war or tyranny.
In 2 steps or less.

Thats where standing up for States Rights will get you right now.
I suggest your State be quite willing and ready to go it alone, cause you will probably be alone, unlike April 1861.

orbitalair on November 8, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Following :)

I havent been active on twitter for a few years…

tom daschle concerned on November 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Thanks! ;)

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 4:18 PM

So, I bid you the fondest of farewells – the best outcome for each of you in these challenging times and my prayers for your well being. God bless you all –

natasha333 on November 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM

:(

Seven Percent Solution on November 8, 2012 at 4:18 PM

And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

oh, so now some of the lefties are getting nervous that they might have to wait in line with the peasants…

so what you want bayam is the ability for you and your rich friends to have the top tier and everyone else the bottom tier

charming…typical champagne leftist

btw, here’s how it works. Middle class people pay for their own healthcare and then pay for other people’s healthcare too! The rich will throw some crumbs in…and buy the concierge heathcare

what is so despicable about the left is that they claim to support the middle class

r keller on November 8, 2012 at 4:18 PM

After considerable soul searching, I have decided that for my own peace of mind, I will no longer follow politics nor will I visit my usual sites such as this one after today.

I just know that for myself, I cannot look at another picture of Obama or Axelrod or Reid or Pelosi or Holder or anyone from that administration or read about their latest assault on liberty without harboring evil, hateful thoughts which do nothing to them, but which cause great damage to me and those around me who have suffered the consequences of my anger. That has to stop.

natasha333 on November 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM

.
The wisdom of your decision is outstanding.

Somehow, I’m sure we’ll experience some kind of communicative connection “down-the-road”.
May God bless and keep you, till then.

listens2glenn on November 8, 2012 at 4:20 PM

I don’t know about the healthcare system in France, but why Germany? They have a two-tier system. That’s not like ObamaCare at all.

Gelsomina on November 8, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Germany’s system is multi-payer and universal. You can opt for either a government insurance plan or a private insurance plan.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:14 PM

It’s nonsensical to try and associate the US “healthcare” situation with other countries that have something like one-tenth (if not less) than our population.

The Left loves to revert to pushing Sweden’s socialism as what the US “should be” and replicate, but Sweden has such a small populatiion overall when compared with that of the US (same as to Germany) AND they don’t have to contend with the variation of populations that are in the US (which matters here due to ethnic and racial differences as to medical care, condiitions, inherited and acquired — different races and ethnicities have different inherited concerns and behave differently, thus, altering what they acquire and in what numbers in their popuations, for starters).

Sweden has what’s mostly a homogonized population and so does Germany. Both have their share of newly arriving immigrants, yes, of different races and ethnicities, but overall they don’t have anything approaching the conditions that exist in the US as to population numbers and complexity AND income variations.

SO tryijng to cite Germany, Sweden, France as some models the US ought to or should adopt is illogical. We’re not them, they’re not us.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 4:22 PM

JellyToast on November 8, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Natasha Richardson died because Canadian hospitals lack equipment that’s in EVERY US hospital because of the cost of it. I wonder if Liam Neeson (her husband) voted for Romney? Socialized medicine killed his wife. The flight to the rare Canadian hospital that had the right equipment to treat her was too long for her to survive, and the one she ended up at basically had to let her die . . . So she got health”care”, it wasn’t “denied” to her, but it was only making her comfortable as she passed.

PastorJon on November 8, 2012 at 4:23 PM

And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

Care to explain exactly why ?

Jabberwock on November 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM

If you require an organ transplant or cancer treatment because those conditions will kill you at some point in the future, hospitals are not required to provide covered to the uninsured. You will only receive treatment for an imminent threat to your life.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Not true. If a hospital takes any kind of government money (medicare/medicaid) they have to treat you regardless of whether you can pay or not. That means if you need a transplant and you meet the mathematical formula to be prioritized on the transplant list (the formula has nothing to do with ability to pay or insurance, btw and I know this from first-hand experience) you get the transplant. You’re simply wrong.

totherightofthem on November 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM

So, let’s fantasize here for a moment.

We sweep both houses of Congress and win the Presidency in 2016. Will the GOP still vote to repeal O-care and if so, what will be the consequences?

As if we will ever be in power again.

Rixon on November 8, 2012 at 4:03 PM

All that shite’s over with. Only thing left to do is strap yourself down and laugh at the panic of the stupid monkeys, when the bus we’re all in finally goes over the cliff. Least we can do is enjoy the ride down.

squint on November 8, 2012 at 4:26 PM

The way this is ending up, there WILL be a schism between these two factions of the Church. At this point… let it happen. I’d rather have a solid core Church tied to the Vatican than have it be continually torn apart by heretics who believe in Nancy Pelosi’s “word.”

Oh, and BTW, the bishops should not only excommunicate Dem Catholic pols like Pelosi and Biden for life, but their entire extended family should be expelled. A clear statement needs to be made here.

Myron Falwell on November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Yes, agreed. I earlier wrote here about a tense interaction I attempted earlier today with a friend and there was more I didn’t write about as to our, his and mind, Catholic beliefs, association, and my horror at citing the profanity and blasphemy about that presented to the world by Pelosi, Biden and his wife, Kerry, others.

And Obama’s deceit about “being a Christian” while one of his “spiritual advisers” just two weeks ago declared that “all white people are going to hell.” Because we’re White.

Liars in high places, liars in high places. It’s evil.

Lourdes on November 8, 2012 at 4:26 PM

My liberal brother said Obamacare costs will be controlled because taxpayers won’t go for higher taxes to pay more. I had to remind him that the people getting the benefits don’t pay taxes, and that’s almost half the population. They only need 2 or 3/50ths of the rest of the population to side with them to increase benefits, increase the costs, etc. He just CAN’T connect that when you’re giving people free stuff, it’s almost impossible to vote it out.

PastorJon on November 8, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Liberals never live in reality, all their ideas lead to ultimate destruction and failure…

mnjg on November 8, 2012 at 4:28 PM

People should also know that there is a 40% direct tax on so-called “Cadillac” plans.

Obamacare is an economic disaster and a disaster for our health care system.

TarheelBen on November 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Not for greedy government and private union employees, they have an exemption to the Cadillac tax.

slickwillie2001 on November 8, 2012 at 4:28 PM

And by “stupid monkeys”, I mean the American sheeple.

(In before “RAAAAAACIIIIST!”)

squint on November 8, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Good discussion on Sean Hannity’s radio show right now between Pat Buchanan and Juan Williams on the future of conservatism and the welfare state. Pretty interesting but also very depressing.

tkyang99 on November 8, 2012 at 4:29 PM

It probably only applies to Muslims and Quakers.

darwin on November 8, 2012 at 2:41 PM

Someone should start a new Muslim sect where you get to keep all of you current beliefs, but you get to classify yourself as Muslim for the purposes og insurance coverage…could be popular…

right of the dial on November 8, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Not for greedy government and private union employees, they have an exemption to the Cadillac tax.

slickwillie2001 on November 8, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Yep. Like everything else from the Federal Government, Obamacare will become heavily politicized.

TarheelBen on November 8, 2012 at 4:31 PM

So, I bid you the fondest of farewells – the best outcome for each of you in these challenging times and my prayers for your well being. God bless you all –

natasha333 on November 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM

I hate to see you leave..:(

Dire Straits on November 8, 2012 at 4:32 PM

And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

.
Care to explain exactly why ?

Jabberwock
on November 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM

.
I’m going to change Jabberwock‘s question to “How?”.

The Obama-care legislation is deliberately designed to eradicate ALL privatization.

listens2glenn on November 8, 2012 at 4:32 PM

C’mon, you guys. You act like Barry’s Big Fascist Medical System will last. It won’t.

Leviathan contains the seeds of its own destruction, and it will implode. The whole Welfare-Warfare-Police State the Progs “left” and “right” built will collapse. Obamneycare only accelerated the pace.

take heart from the knowledge that ultimately this criminal enterprise will attain such bloated size and scope that its own survival will no longer be possible, and it will implode, as the Soviet Union and other similarly overreaching politico-economic orders have imploded. Governments that grow and grow ultimately find that their predation becomes greater than their prey can support, at which point such predators are doomed.

Until that glorious day, we should nag our “representatives” to pass a bill protecting our right to spend our own money on any medical care we choose and, further, protecting physicians’ right to run direct-pay practices which operate completely outside the system. Because those are what the progs, who are all about “choice,” will ban next.

Rae on November 8, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Yep. Like everything else from the Federal Government, Obamacare will become heavily politicized.

TarheelBen on November 8, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Yes it will..:(

Dire Straits on November 8, 2012 at 4:32 PM

And I agree, it’s important to keep privatization alive in the US model.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM

oh, so now some of the lefties are getting nervous that they might have to wait in line with the peasants…

so what you want bayam is the ability for you and your rich friends to have the top tier and everyone else the bottom tier

charming…typical champagne leftist

btw, here’s how it works. Middle class people pay for their own healthcare and then pay for other people’s healthcare too! The rich will throw some crumbs in…and buy the concierge heathcare

what is so despicable about the left is that they claim to support the middle class

r keller on November 8, 2012 at 4:18 PM

You’re missing the points made by jimver at the top of this post. That’s not how the model operates in France or Germany.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 4:33 PM

You’re missing the points made by jimver at the top of this post. That’s not how the model operates in France or Germany.

bayam on November 8, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Funny how you keep bringing up France and Germany instead of what ObamaCare actually does…

Chuck Schick on November 8, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Just get good at hacking folks. Everything these turds do will use a computer.

for instance, I am wondering how much fun it could be to turn the power off in Philly.

or clear all the Dem voters from the welfare check database.

orbitalair on November 8, 2012 at 4:34 PM

G

Good discussion on Sean Hannity’s radio show right now between Pat Buchanan and Juan Williams on the future of conservatism and the welfare state. Pretty interesting but also very depressing.

tkyang99 on November 8, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Agree. It reinforced my opinion that we are already past the tipping point. I hate to be negative but we may be screwed.

derft on November 8, 2012 at 4:34 PM

Natasha,

Beautifully written and heartfelt. I, too, am pondering why I subject myself to politics–when it is patently obvious that most of our nation is just out to get what they perceive is owed them. My heart is aching for our oldest, she is off to the East Coast for a job interview, not knowing that her entire employment options just took a huge hit with the re-election of this administration. She was so darn cute, all packed and ready to go, so incredibly excited at her first “grown-up” job prospect (she graduates from college in May)–it just killed me to see such shining optimism, because I know what is coming down the pike for her–one of the hardest workers I know–to know that there are people out there who think she doesn’t deserve anything she worked so hard to achieve.

So, I may comment here and there, but I won’t be visiting nearly as often.

To all of you who comment, I have learned so much from you over the past few years, you have enriched my life beyond measure.

God bless you all.

herm2416 on November 8, 2012 at 4:36 PM

You’re simply wrong.

totherightofthem on November 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM

Yeah, but what bayam continually hopes for is that he’ll be able to barf up a chunk of information and nobody will be able to refute it. He’s batting .003 for the season.

AubieJon on November 8, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5