CNN poll: All tied at 49% …

posted at 8:41 am on November 5, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

It’s all tied up, CNN reports, with just two days left in the presidential race.  Mitt Romney and Barack Obama both get 49%, and tie on every major indicator.  And this might be good news for Barack Obama, until they look at the sample (via Twitchy):

It’s all tied up, according to a new national poll released two days before the presidential election.

And the CNN/ORC International survey not only indicates a dead heat in the race for the White House, but also on almost every major indicator of President Barack Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney that was tested in the poll.

Forty-nine percent of likely voters questioned say they support the president, with an equal amount saying they back the former Massachusetts governor.

The poll is the fourth national non-partisan, live operator survey released Sunday to indicate the battle for the presidency either a dead heat or virtually tied. A Politico/George Washington University survey has it tied at 48%; an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll indicates Obama at 48% and Romney at 47%; and the latest ABC News/Washington Post tracking poll puts Obama at 49% and Romney at 48%.

Only this poll turns out to be bad news for Barack Obama.  Why?  According to CNN’s internals of this likely-voter survey, Obama doesn’t come close to tying Romney in one key indicator — independent voters.  According to the sample data, Romney leads independents by a whopping twenty-two points, 59/37.  How can Romney have a 22-point lead among independents but still only get to a 49-all tie with Obama?

Here’s how:

Among those likely voters, 41% described themselves as Democrats, 29% described themselves as Independents, and 30% described themselves as Republicans.

Yes, that’s a D/R/I of 41/30/29.  In 2008, a big turnout election for Democrats, the D/R/I was 39/32/29, and Obama won independents by eight points. Despite Republicans having a five-point edge in this very poll among those “extremely enthusiastic” about voting, the CNN poll has added four points to the Democrats’ advantage in this sample.

Let’s also take a look at the gender gap.  In 2008, Obama got a +14 in the gender gap, with a +13 among women and a +1 among men.  In this poll, Romney wins men by nine (53/44) and Obama wins women by eight (53/45) for a gender gap advantage of +1 for Romney.

So we are expected to believe that since 2008, (a) Obama has lost thirty points in the gap with independents, (b) Obama has lost fifteen points in the gender gap, and (c) Obama is still just four points below his 2008 share of the electorate?  Only in a world where 41% of the voters will be Democrats and only 30% Republicans, and that world won’t be what we see tomorrow.

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Take my bet.

Or are you actually not confident in a Romney win?

Dave Rywall on November 5, 2012 at 9:30 AM

I will take your bet liberal… I am confident, very confident, that Romney is going to win tomorrow… 52% Romney to 47% Obama… Romney 290+ Electoral Votes…

mnjg on November 5, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Trollcott is the new normal.

Liam on November 5, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Thank you. Unless Romney can take Pennsylvania or Michigan away from Obama, which I doubt, I think that Ohio is the state to win. Ohio’s first Presidental election was in 1804 shortly after it became a state and it helped elect Thomas Jefferson. In it’s history Ohio has only been on the losing side 9 times and the winning side 43 times. Ohio hasn’t been on the losing side of a Presidental election since 1960 when it went for Nixon and Kennedy won. Before that it was 1944 when Ohio went with Dewey and Roosevelt won. But Ohio is a swing state, in the last 12 Presidental elections Ohio has gone Republican 7 times and Democrat 5 times and was on the winning side every time. I don’t think that this year will be any different.

Dollayo on November 5, 2012 at 11:07 AM

The needle on the national barometer has moved far enough right to put PA, WI, MN, and possibly OR in play. There is no way with that move that states like FL, VA, OH, IA, and CO don’t move into the R column…..that is unless the Dem turnout is equal to or greater than 2008.

I do not see that happening.

Animal60 on November 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM

But Ohio is a swing state, in the last 12 Presidental elections Ohio has gone Republican 7 times and Democrat 5 times and was on the winning side every time. I don’t think that this year will be any different.

Dollayo on November 5, 2012 at 11:07 AM

The news I keep receiving on OH is that it is a R/R state, the real question is by how much. I’ve said R+3, but others have posted R+5 or even R+6.

We’ll see tomorrow night.

Turtle317 on November 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM

SittingDeadRed on November 5, 2012 at 9:35 AM

You forgot to mention that Owe voters have now experienced 4 years of joblessness.

katablog.com on November 5, 2012 at 9:57 AM

I figured that went without saying. I was lucking and was only unemployed for seven months. I guess I am one of those 5 million jobs that O created. Of course first I was one of the ??? that he lost.

Recovery Fever. Don’t catch it. It may kill you.

SittingDeadRed on November 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Ahhh…the Trolls are personally attacking…or, maybe someone has an “intestinal issue”?

Trollcott!!

kingsjester on November 5, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Saw the writing on the wall when CJ, KT, and a couple blew up over PG and RS over Israel and Jihadis. Then the purges started. There is still the good memories about taking down Dan Rather. And Zombie moved over to PJmedia. Other than that, there isn’t much left to remember.

cozmo on November 5, 2012 at 11:12 AM

You are far more familiar with what happened there than I am. I just remember liking it during that Dan Rather era, and then going back a few years later and wondering what the heck happened!

Anti-Control on November 5, 2012 at 11:24 AM

The needle on the national barometer has moved far enough right to put PA, WI, MN, and possibly OR in play. There is no way with that move that states like FL, VA, OH, IA, and CO don’t move into the R column…..that is unless the Dem turnout is equal to or greater than 2008.

I do not see that happening.

Animal60 on November 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM

I agree with you, I predict that Romney will win Ohio, as well as FL, VA, NC, NH, and CO. This will be enough to put him over the top. I agree that PA, WI, MI and MN have moved toward Romney but I just don’t think it will be quite enough to turn them red. However, if I’m wrong and any one of them go to Romney, it’s over.

Dollayo on November 5, 2012 at 11:27 AM

When Romney wins by a large margin the Democrats will scream fraud. How could he possibly have gotten so many votes when everyone knew the election was tied?

PS: Nancy Pillose says we have to re-elect Obama so we can see what is in his plans for the next four years.

Uniblogger on November 5, 2012 at 11:31 AM

CNN poll shows a tie with a D+11 sample.

Reality tomorrow is most likely going to be R+1.

That means the CNN poll is actually showing an over 10 point lead for Romney.

Religious_Zealot on November 5, 2012 at 11:31 AM

He’s such a douche his fave drink has to be a shot Massengil with a vinegar-and-water chaser.

Liam on November 5, 2012 at 10:54 AM

ROFLOL! Perfect!

HiJack on November 5, 2012 at 11:35 AM

What is the trollcot thing?

changer1701 on November 5, 2012 at 9:31 AM

It’s the intellectually insecure sticking their little fingers in their ears and screaming “I can’t hear you! I can’t hear you! TROLLCOTT! TROLLCOTT!”

Foxhound on November 5, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Wrong. It’s an effective way to take back HA from the trolls that can easily dominate a thread. It works very well.

If you can’t restrain yourself from taking their bait, at least don’t cut and paste their garbage further into the thread.

slickwillie2001 on November 5, 2012 at 11:36 AM

ROFLOL! Perfect!

HiJack on November 5, 2012 at 11:35 AM

I was laughing so hard I misspelled ROFLMAO!

HiJack on November 5, 2012 at 11:38 AM

workingclass artist on November 5, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Billy Graham put this in the Ohio Columbus-Dispatch on Sunday:
http://www.billygraham.org/vote-biblical-values/index.asp

It’s as close to an endorsement of Romney as he felt comfortable giving.

I’m encouraged by the number of newspapers that have endorsed Romney, this time, as well. That makes a difference with the older set who still get their news that way.

theotherone on November 5, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Every person of every faith must unite to boot these secularist anti-constitutional statist liberals out of office at every level.

Religious Liberty is at stake.

The US has the third-largest Catholic population among all countries.

The Obama administration has launched an attack on religious liberty & is aimed squarely at Christians and in particular Catholics…The mechanism is the HHS Mandate (Obamacare)

Pope Benedict XVI has stated Catholic Institutions will not comply under coercion with any government on measures that violate our faith and endorse intrinsic evil.

The USCCB stated publicly that they will close Catholic Schools,Charity Hospitals and Catholic Charities in the United States in 2 years if Obamacare is not repealed.

Text of Recent Romney Ad that appeals in particular to Catholics.

“The Obama administration dictated that every Catholic school, hospital and charity must include services that many Catholics consider immoral. After President Obama’s mandate, Catholic schools, charities and hospitals are left with three choices — They could pay for services and violate their beliefs, they could pay fines of $100 per employee per day, leading many to shut down, or they could strip care from everyone they serve and limit the good they did to Catholics only.

Why does this matter? The Catholic Church provides an education to over 2 million American children every year. The Catholic hospital network is one of our nation’s finest. In fact, one out of every six hospitalized Americans is being cared for in a Catholic hospital. And the Catholic Church makes serving the poor a cornerstone of its good work. Over 7 million men, women and children receive food services from Catholic charities every year.

This election, it is critical that we vote for the candidate who is going to protect these religious institutions.

video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeS1uWWvJFE&feature=player_embedded

According to the Forbes list Catholic Charities is the 5th largest charity in the USA.

It is that serious.

Aside from the Constitutional threat to all Americans there is a very real historical threat with data that each American should consider.

In secular Europe there is a spike in suicides in countries where government has replaced the traditional role of church communities in the social services safety net.

Catholics in particular have been aware of this phenomenon for a long time and this reality was stark in secular France long ago.

The Collapse of Europe’s Welfare State Exposes its False Hopes — Is America Next?

“But it isn’t the much derided austerity measures that are driving people to these tragic extremes. The root cause goes much deeper. And fundamentally this is about the great lie at the heart of the all-encompassing welfare state, with its empty promises of eternal security and freedom from want. The welfare state and its advocates would have us believe that they have a political solution for a world where scarcity and human brokenness still hold sway…

This false hope is what Pope John Paul II was getting at in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus. He took the “social assistance state” to task for contributing to “a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending.” He had it exactly right 20 years before the inevitable fiscal crisis swept through Paris, Rome, Athens, Madrid and Bonn and paralyzed the once smug architects of the EU as “lifestyle superpower.” They never missed a chance to deride the heartless values of “Anglo-Saxon capitalism” (a phrase always wielded as a pejorative). But their “lifestyle” turned out to be a trap.

When John Paul II published Centesimus Annus, he was also speaking directly to America, with its own welfare state crisis. Ours may not be as advanced in its fiscal and social pathology as the Eurozone’s, but the malady is just as serious. Unfortunately, our dysfunctional and mudslinging political culture seems wholly unfit for the task at hand…

“I need not get into the ins and outs of Roman Catholic doctrines about social teaching. But I should point out that a concern for the poor prioritizes considerations that demand that local – even family and neighborhood groups — act as “first responders” to situations of need. This is the great tension that the Church experiences today between “social justice” advocates, who point to solidarity with the poor, and the subsidiarity proponents who push for limited government, private charity and personal initiative. Not surprisingly, the “social justice” lobby usually defaults to government power and welfare state solutions as the instrument of achieving its ends…”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertsirico/2012/08/29/the-collapse-of-europes-welfare-state-exposes-its-false-hopes-is

Here’s another link from the NYT

Increasingly in Europe, Suicides ‘by Economic Crisis’

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/world/europe/increasingly-in-europe-suicides-by-economic-crisis.html?pagewant

Secular Government cannot replace the role of Religious Organizations in restoration of families and communities.

America is not immune to this trend…And conservative Catholics know this.

The word Catholic is derived from the greek word katholikos which means “universal”, which comes from the greek phrase katholou meaning “according to the whole”

My hope and prayer is that Americans unite to prevent this intrinsic evil from undermining our constitution and it’s potential impact on citizens in this country.

workingclass artist on November 5, 2012 at 11:39 AM

I agree with you, I predict that Romney will win Ohio, as well as FL, VA, NC, NH, and CO. This will be enough to put him over the top. I agree that PA, WI, MI and MN have moved toward Romney but I just don’t think it will be quite enough to turn them red. However, if I’m wrong and any one of them go to Romney, it’s over.

Dollayo on November 5, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Whether you’re wrong or right, it’s over. Thank God Almighty it’s over!

HiJack on November 5, 2012 at 11:42 AM

So who’s in Ohio today with Obama?

Jay-Z

Obama can’t draw on his own.

Pushback.

budfox on November 5, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I guess I am one of those 5 million jobs that O created. Of course first I was one of the ??? that he lost.

SittingDeadRed on November 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM

exACTly. Between last April and this June I was out of work not once, but twice for a total of some five or six months, depending on how you count odd jobs I did to keep food on the table.

According to Obama, that counts as two jobs created, even though the net number of jobs in my household is the same today as it was when he took office.

The Schaef on November 5, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Ahhh…the Trolls are personally attacking…

kingsjester on November 5, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Nothing new about that. It’s one of the things trolls do to get attention.

Usually trolls first make a vile broad brushed attack — example, “The GOP is animated by racism”. Then when they get replies to that they narrow the focus.

farsighted on November 5, 2012 at 11:47 AM

farsighted on November 5, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Like children trying to get attention at a family gathering.

kingsjester on November 5, 2012 at 11:51 AM

I’m being a good girl.

Flora Duh on November 5, 2012 at 10:32 AM

You always are. However I am inclined to agree with Dr. G. Not only do I wish for your happiness, I wish for your good health my dearest Flora. So continue to be a good girl. It suits you. ; )

Bmore on November 5, 2012 at 11:54 AM

The PA firewall is cracking as we speak and there is nothing D+11 poll can do to stop it.

Nootzy on November 5, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Only problem with this trollcott thing is that it doesn’t give rogerb any opportunities to pluck juicy troll quotes from the past.

Stray Cat on November 5, 2012 at 11:55 AM

I was interested in seeing a movie this weekend

when I saw it starred Tom Hanks – it was no thanks

I have lost interest in Springsteen 10 years ago but now he makes me sick to my stomach

I like Dave Matthews, odd that Obama needs his band to draw a decent crowd

Obama graps all you want

pride comes before the fall

audiotom on November 5, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Anyone else nervous?

Or rather … is anyone NOT nervous?

aunursa on November 5, 2012 at 8:44 AM

I’m serene. At worst, this is a D=R election which means Mitt wins handily.

Basilsbest on November 5, 2012 at 11:56 AM

New Romney ad aimed at Catholics (PA,OH,WI,MI,FL,NV have large catholic populations)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeS1uWWvJFE

Cardinal George warned Catholic Institutions will not comply under federal coercion with policies that violate our faith & these will shut down in 2 years unless Obamacare is repealed.

Pass it on

workingclass artist on November 5, 2012 at 11:58 AM

I was pretty nervous, but today’s Rasmussen +1 Romney poll calmed me down. Good polls like Ras can catch these late breaks which often prove decisive. Also the poor trolls just lost another bit of ammo.

tkyang99 on November 5, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Flashback: Gallup Had Carter Up 4 Points Over Ronald Reagan in September 1980

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/flashback-gallup-had-carter-up-4-points-over-ronald-reagan-in-september-1980/

Back in 1980 Gallup had Jimmy Carter up over Ronald Reagan by 4 points in mid to late September… And, Carter was up 8 points in October. In fact there was a published Gallup poll showing Carter up six among likely voters in a poll conducted Oct. 24 to 27.

Gallup Poll: Jimmy Carter 47 — Ronald Reagan 39

http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/may/2012-09-20/gallop-poll-jimmy-carter-47-ronald-reagan-39#.UJfwmTkkcrg

It is important for Republicans to not be discouraged by polls and the news media that is desperately encouraging them to give up and to cede the election to Barack Obama. This is not logical, as the polls are significantly overpredicting Democratic victories.

Romney would win by at least 7 points if the election were held today. This is because many people are afraid to tell pollsters what they will really do in the voting booth. Democrats do not trust pollsters, fearing their names will be added to lists that could end up in the hands of Democrats or unions. The Scott Walker recall election in the Democratic state of Wisconsin was a good example of this. A Scott Walker victory of 2 to 4 points was predicted, and Walker won by 14 points.

redguy on November 5, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Anyone else nervous?

Or rather … is anyone NOT nervous?

aunursa on November 5, 2012 at 8:44 AM

I’m nervous because I expect a historic level of cheating from democratics. Early voting has given them another avenue to cheat and vote multiple times. Record levels of illegal aliens, er, sorry -’dreamers’ will be voting illegally.

I expect a handful of challenges, perhaps even in one of the critical Senate races. We might end up with another Alf Rankin stolen office.

slickwillie2001 on November 5, 2012 at 12:05 PM

My take is, if you look at the states Obama won like Indiana he won bt 1 or NC which he squeak by Romney is winning them overwhelming. It shows me that Gallup is right with a + 2-3 R turnout.

Conservative4ev on November 5, 2012 at 12:06 PM

workingclass artist on November 5, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Passed along.
A local radio caller said he doesn’t know one single Catholic, in his parish or not, who will be voting for Zero … NONE.

pambi on November 5, 2012 at 12:11 PM

The latest Rasmussen poll has Obama up among independents by eight points. Game over.

Ric on November 5, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Ric on November 5, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Wrong. R is up 15 with indys.

wargamer6 on November 5, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Anyone else nervous?

Or rather … is anyone NOT nervous?

aunursa on November 5, 2012 at 8:44 AM

I’m not nervous. This election shouldn’t be close. That it is is a symptom of a much, much larger problem,

If this nation reelects an incompetent Obama who has nothing to offer but Marx inspired class warfare, after four years of trillion+ dollar deficits, very high persistent unemployment, doubled gas prices, and a GDP tottering on the brink of another decline, an Obama whose “tax the rich” solution, his only solution, will only reduce the deficit by at best 5-10% and suck blood out of an economy already on life support, then I will know without doubt the US has become a socialist nation beyond all hope — a nation dominated by fools, idiots, populist con artists, and self righteous pseudo-intellectual morons — that will deserve the fate that awaits it.

For the rest of us, that is worth knowing, for the purpose of future planning and decision making — like going Galt, for example.

farsighted on November 5, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Ric on November 5, 2012 at 12:16 PM
Wrong. R is up 15 with indys.

wargamer6 on November 5, 2012 at 12:18 PM

My bad, let me clarify. According to Rasmussen Ohio poll Obama up eight points with independents.

Ric on November 5, 2012 at 12:19 PM

What good is a trollcott when the RINOs running this place post pretty much the same crap?
ED, THE CNN SAMPLE IS D+11. 4pts higher than 2008. How is that even believable?

rayra on November 5, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Ohio in 2010 was a GOP romp. Now we’re supposed to believe it’s flipped in just two years. Especially these last two years??

rayra on November 5, 2012 at 12:24 PM

Troll meltdown due to TROLLCOT?? :)

jimver on November 5, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Rasmussen party ID survey had D+7 in 2008 (was D+7), D+3 in 2010 (was even). Now the survey shows R+6. If its only even Romney will win big.

https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/265502372669829120

redguy on November 5, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Ohio in 2010 was a GOP romp. Now we’re supposed to believe it’s flipped in just two years. Especially these last two years??

rayra on November 5, 2012 at 12:24 PM

Hell NO it’s hasn’t!!!!
Everything has gotten worse since 2010!!!

The democrats will put the nails in their coffin when the EPA rolls out regs to stop Fracking…..
It might (should) be the end of the EPA…….

redguy on November 5, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Thank you all for the well wishes and kind words about my job interview! It went very well, I accepted it and was able to get the pay bumped up a little. I am confident that things will go well for me there (my boss is a Repub) ;)
Its people, like you guys, that give words of encouragement, kindness and truely have “The Peoples” best interest at heart, that will take us over the top on Tuesday!
FOR LOVE OF COUNTRY! Salute!

kcd on November 5, 2012 at 12:52 PM

This poll darn near PROVES Romney is miles ahead. Look on pages 6 & 7.

307 Democrats
111 Independents leaning Democrat
152 Independents leaning Republican
293 Republicans

Assuming they had 55 Independents with no lean, that totals the 918 registered voters they sampled.

This absolutely refutes the D+11 stratification they used, especially given that the likely voters will be even more Republican than registered voters.

The raw data leans Republican. This is more than just good news for Romney. This affects all races.

Buy premium popcorn. The cheap stuff just wouldn’t be right.

Pythagoras on November 5, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Thank you all for the well wishes and kind words about my job interview! It went very well, I accepted it and was able to get the pay bumped up a little. I am confident that things will go well for me there (my boss is a Repub) ;)
Its people, like you guys, that give words of encouragement, kindness and truely have “The Peoples” best interest at heart, that will take us over the top on Tuesday!
FOR LOVE OF COUNTRY! Salute!

kcd on November 5, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Congratulations! That’s great news. I’m glad you were able to get them to raise the pay a bit. That will help offset what your losses are from the previous job. Here’s hoping that under a Romney presidency, your new company does well.

theotherone on November 5, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Serious question. Do the Amish vote?

JPeterman on November 5, 2012 at 12:51 PM

According to my husband (who grew up Amish – and lived in Ohio until his early 20s), the Amish do vote – but they do not vote for President; they leave that part of the ticket blank.

azblondie on November 5, 2012 at 1:34 PM

oh please no no no….

Compared to Oprah Winfrey, the queen of chat show hosts, TV executives believe the First Lady would be a natural to become a talk show host.

equanimous on November 5, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Is why the good Lord gave us the “mute” and “on/off” buttons.

I’d give it six weeks.

kim roy on November 5, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Could everybody please forgive and answer my ignorant question? I’ve been arguing, as many of you have, for weeks/months that many of the pollsters have unrealistic sampling. Some others have responded that pollsters do not manipulate the sampling, that they simply call the first 1,600 (or whatever) likely voters and merely report on their party affiliation. Which is true?

bmmg39 on November 5, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Worthwhile reading for the day before the presidential election:

Romney for President
The Obama record is unimpressive.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/332484/mitt-romney-president-editors

AdrianS on November 5, 2012 at 2:07 PM

Could everybody please forgive and answer my ignorant question? I’ve been arguing, as many of you have, for weeks/months that many of the pollsters have unrealistic sampling. Some others have responded that pollsters do not manipulate the sampling, that they simply call the first 1,600 (or whatever) likely voters and merely report on their party affiliation. Which is true?

bmmg39 on November 5, 2012 at 2:05 PM

No, pollsters do not do the latter. To only call people and ask who are you going to vote for, and expect that to be statistically accurate you need to call far more people than they can afford to call.

To keep it manageable they call smaller numbers and ask -who will you vote for and what is your party. Then because it’s a smaller poll they are likely to end up with 60/40 D/R this time and 40/60 D/R the next time, so they ‘correct’ the polls through weighting to get it to a D/R mix that they think is likely.

slickwillie2001 on November 5, 2012 at 2:21 PM

Thank you, slick.

bmmg39 on November 5, 2012 at 2:23 PM

workingclass artist on November 5, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Passed along.
A local radio caller said he doesn’t know one single Catholic, in his parish or not, who will be voting for Zero … NONE.

pambi on November 5, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Thanks.

Although Catholics would be immediately effected as warned by the USCCB…this effects us all.

This attack on our constitutional protection effects every american of every denomination & eventually those americans of no denomination or no religious faith at all.

Here’s how some of it could play out here.

Institutions with religious affiliations that are not confined within a physical church will no longer be protected from governmental coercion through their religious affiliation.

This means Jewish parochial schools may be prevented from teaching Jewish history unless this curriculum includes federally approved versions that may contradict Jewish Religion,Cultural Experience and Historical Experience.

For example: Jewish parochial schools could be coerced by federal secularist policies to alter teaching on the historical impact of the holocaust…or the historical foundation of the modern state of Israel.

This means Baptist and Evangelical Christian schools may be coerced by the Federal Government to alter their curriculum to satisfy a federally approved curriculum that contradicts principles in their doctrine and emphasis on subject matter and it’s interpretation that are of particular concern to many Baptists and Evangelicals…Like the freedom to discuss in class alternative theories to evolution.

This means older mainstream protestant religions, like Anglicans,Episcopalians,Lutherans etc. might be coerced by the Federal Government to alter curriculum that teaches about the historical impact of the reformation in Europe and it’s cultural contributions as these relate to the enlightenment period and American History in a secular push to diminish the European immigrant contributions to our country since it’s foundation because this is deemed as euro-centric.

These examples reveal the very real threat of the Obama Administrations directive that Religion and religious practice is confined within the walls of a church.

For Charitable Organizations with religious affiliations it means that these will lose any ability to be protected in practice by their affiliation.

How could this effect the Salvation Army?

The Salvation Army is not a church but it is a religious affiliated charity…It is conceivable that they could be coerced to shed their affiliation or alter their mission to a federally approved standard that conflicts with their core principles.

For example Catholic Charities in other countries (UK) have been coerced by Government to allow adoptions by Gay couples and singles. This contradicts Catholic Doctrine and practice that promotes stable traditional married families as the best environment to raise children. In the UK the Bishops closed down the adoption centers rather than comply with the coercion.

For Religious Affiliated Hospitals the coercion will be just as bad when the Federal Government decides what charity is, or religious principles and it’s application…not the principles of the religious affiliation. Suppose Jewish Affiliated Hospitals are coerced by the Federal Government to stop circumcising male babies because it does not comply with a federally approved humane philosophy of medical practice.

This happened recently in Europe when a German court in Cologne ruled that Circumcision of male babies was harmful and therefore illegal.

Suppose a Religious Affiliated Hospital is coerced by the Government to adopt medically assisted suicide?

This could effect any organization that has a religious affiliation because they are not confined within the 4 walls of a church.

The European Court in Brussells ordered the nation of Italy to remove crosses in the Public Square because they offended an atheist in a law suit. Berlosconi, then acting prime minister defended Crosses & Crucifixes as part of Italian Cultural Heritage, exerted Italian Sovereignty and defied the ruling of the European Court.

This coercion could effect the traditional pastoral role of ministers,priests and rabbi’s to dissent from secularism as critics of society.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2005/sep/05090204

Religious Liberty is the most fundamental obstacle to Totalitarian Tyranny. It is why our country was founded and why the persecuted throughout the world look to us as a beacon.

The HHS Mandate is the door to Fascism.

It is that simple & that important to every American.

workingclass artist on November 5, 2012 at 4:12 PM

I recommend watching CNN on election night. They have better maps and play-by-play analysis by John King. During CNN commercial breaks, switch over to Fox News. After Romnney wins, immediately switch over to MSNBC and watch those cartoon characters meltdown. After a good laugh at them, go back to Fox News and listen some more, then watch theBlaze tv (Glenn Beck’s network) for analysis, if you subscribe.

Decoski on November 5, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Do you think we can go back to being blue again? I much prefer being blue to Communist Red.

Oh, right, we have always been Red….Red States…I Love Big Brother Media…

Bulletchaser on November 5, 2012 at 6:50 PM

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