Breaking: Fox News reports CIA command refused to help Benghazi consulate during attack

posted at 12:01 pm on October 26, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Yesterday, Leon Panetta told reporters that the US military didn’t intervene to assist our consulate in Benghazi during the attack because of a lack of real-time intelligence.  Fox News’ Jennifer Griffin now reports that the CIA got at least three requests for support from the annex in the city to help fend off the attack — and that the chain of command not only refused the requests, but ordered its personnel to “stand down.”  Two of the Americans killed in the terrorist attack disobeyed orders and attempted to rescue their fellow Americans:

Fox News has learned from sources who were on the ground in Benghazi that three urgent requests from the CIA annex for military back-up during the attack on the U.S. Consulate and subsequent attack nearly seven hours later were denied by officials in the CIA chain of command — who also told the CIA operators to “stand down” rather than help the ambassador’s team when shots were heard at approximately 9:40 p.m. in Benghazi on Sept. 11.

Former Navy SEALs Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty were part of a small team who were at the CIA annex about a mile from the U.S. Consulate where Ambassador Chris Stevens and his team came under attack. When they heard the shots fired, they radioed to inform their higher-ups to tell them what they were hearing. They were told to “stand down,” according to sources familiar with the exchange. An hour later, they called again to headquarters and were again told to “stand down.”

Woods, Doherty and at least two others ignored those orders and made their way to the Consulate which at that point was on fire. Shots were exchanged. The quick reaction force from the CIA annex evacuated those who remained at the Consulate and Sean Smith, who had been killed in the initial attack. They could not find the ambassador and returned to the CIA annex at about midnight.

At that point, they called again for military support and help because they were taking fire at the CIA safe house, or annex. The request was denied. There were no communications problems at the annex, according those present at the compound. The team was in constant radio contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when mortars were fired at the CIA compound. The security officer had a laser on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support from a Specter gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex went on for more than four hours — enough time for any planes based in Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told to wait, among them Delta Force operators.

It’s not as if there was no resources to respond, either:

A Special Operations team, or CIF which stands for Commanders in Extremis Force, operating in Central Europe had been moved to Sigonella, Italy, but they too were told to stand down. A second force that specializes in counterterrorism rescues was on hand at Sigonella, according to senior military and intelligence sources. According to those sources, they could have flown to Benghazi in less than two hours. They were the same distance to Benghazi as those that were sent from Tripoli. Specter gunships are commonly used by the Special Operations community to provide close air support.

Griffin’s sources tell her that the annex had painted a laser target at a terrorist mortar position and had called for an air strike.  I’m not sure what that looks like in Panetta’s world, but it at least sounds like real-time intelligence on the attack, as well as a clear target, if this report is correct.

Saxby Chambliss is right — this gets uglier every day.

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 6 7 8 9

No offense to the CIA personnel but they are nowhere near the ex-SEALS in terms of capabilities.

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 5:23 PM

That would depend on which division of CIA you’re talking about.
However, it’s pretty certain that the CIA personnel on the ground were not from SAD’s SOG department. I’ reasonably sure that, if they had been, all of them would have gone to the consulate.

Solaratov on October 26, 2012 at 8:05 PM

The 3:00 call came and Barky took a message.

tommyboy on October 26, 2012 at 7:58 PM

Right, on the answering machine.

His recorded message: Thank you for your support. I have so many calls that I cannot possibly answer them all. But if I can answer yours, I’ll be back to you tomorrow some time after 10:00 AM. I feel your pain and best regards, Barry.

petefrt on October 26, 2012 at 8:11 PM

Hope Romney awards them the Medal of Honor.

Because F*CK Obama.

Above and Beyond

McNinja on October 26, 2012 at 8:16 PM

I am a pretty bright dude – and humble… But I have to admit – several posters seem to be swinging their “military barrels” around, while claiming they want actual “facts” before we come to a conclusion.

When you inject yourselves in the guessing game, via “knowledge” – you are worse than reports.

Its exactly what this POS admin wants and is doing since Sept 11, 2012 – 833 degrees of separation create confusion – and confusion to the average American blurs everything – to the point it no longer matters.

I respect the service and attempts here, but all I know is 4 brave Americans died – and the narrative, blame and OFFICIAL STORIES has changed – starting with blaming a YouTube video – and an apology to the entire Middle East.

Odie1941 on October 26, 2012 at 8:17 PM

They were probably afraid of “offending someone,” in Libya!!!!!!!!
It’ll ALL come out folks, whether the WH wants it to, or not.

DixT on October 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM

Hey guys, don’t lose sight of whole point here. The fact is, somebody denied help to those in the consulate. That somebody is in the CIA, the State Department, or the WH.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 3:50 PM

White House. Constitutional and legal responsibility rests there. Buck stops there.

Suck it up, Barry. It’s yours, like it or not. Own it.

petefrt on October 26, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Per Fox News report, this was just ANOTHER request for help after 2 others were denied:

At that point, they called again for military support and help because they were taking fire at the CIA safe house, or annex. The request was denied. There were no communications problems at the annex, according those present at the compound. The team was in constant radio contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when mortars were fired at the CIA compound.

So, in essence, CIA is calling those on the ground in Benghazi LIARS.

CIA’s statement doesn’t read any other way.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Please stop listening to communist azzholes

Nice. Stay classy riddick.

blink on October 26, 2012 at 8:17 PM

I’ve had more than my share of you communist scum when I lived in USSR. Enough of your idiocy here, move there if you love this sh*t so much. Or to Cuba, North Korea or China.

Hopefully Nov 6th will be first step here to cleanse our country of you, scum.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:26 PM

Suck it up, Barry. It’s yours, like it or not. Own it.

petefrt on October 26, 2012 at 8:20 PM

WH is just the start. It MUST go down the line, as deep as it takes. Hefty prison terms for all involved. And if residential pardons are used for any of this, then civil lawsuits to the point they all live on the street penniless.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:29 PM

RE, per CIA mouthpiece:

“We can say with confidence that the Agency reacted quickly to aid our colleagues during that terrible evening in Benghazi,” she said.

Doing precisely WHAT? Letting people die? Some aid there…

CIA is as liable and guilty in this as is WH, State, military and media.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Is CIA now saying they never got those requests?

Because that’s the only way I can read their very terse statement “that they did not refuse to support”. This only means they are saying they didn’t receive any requests to me, I can’t read it any other way.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 7:27 PM

No. They’re just saying that the “Stand down” order did not come from anyone at any level in the CIA. That it came from somewhere else in the chain of command.

And, evidently, the only two places that order could have come from are AFRICOM and POTUS. One of them gave the order.

Solaratov on October 26, 2012 at 8:35 PM

Are you claiming that I’m spinning communist news?

blink on October 26, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Yes, idiot.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 7:39 PM

That’s a bit over the line, riddick. Blink may be a lot of things, but I do not believe that one can call him a ‘communist’ of any stripe.

Solaratov on October 26, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Solaratov on October 26, 2012 at 8:35 PM

Let’s agree to disagree, then. As I read CIA statements, again and again, they simply say NOTHING. And if anything, they claim that A) requests were not made and B) actions were taken.

From those on the ground we KNOW that at least 3 requests were made. Do I believe CIA mouthpiece for the 6 weeks-in-hiding chief or those on the ground in Benghazi? Yes, I know, its a tough choice. /s

Then I read “Agency reacted quickly”. Hmmm… Doing WHAT? NO HELP WAS PROVIDED. AT ALL. With assets on the ground (Delta force) as well as in the air (at least one drone filming this as well as at least one Spectre). By accounts of those on the ground in Benghazi. Again, who should I believe? Yes, another tough choice. /s

CIA is simply lying at this point and buying time. Same as Hussein, Panetta and Shillary.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:44 PM

The team was in constant radio contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when mortars were fired at the CIA compound.

So, in essence, CIA is calling those on the ground in Benghazi LIARS.

CIA’s statement doesn’t read any other way.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Their ‘headquarters’ would have been Tripoli or AFRICOM. That statement does not necessarily mean that they were in communication with Langley.

Solaratov on October 26, 2012 at 8:48 PM

CIA is simply lying at this point and buying time.
riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:44 PM

That’s the way I read it. It’s an intentionally weasel worded statement that can be spun several different ways down the road depending on what additional facts do or don’t come out later. It’s the kind of potitispeak politicians use to cover their a** without actually committing themselves to anything specific.

tommyboy on October 26, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Their ‘headquarters’ would have been Tripoli or AFRICOM. That statement does not necessarily mean that they were in communication with Langley.

Solaratov on October 26, 2012 at 8:48 PM

And yet CIA statement says NOTHING.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

And where is Betrayus? I want HIM to say something. Panetta is on record. Shillasry is on record. WH and Hussein are on record.

Where is Betrayus?

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 8:54 PM

They can do this now with even phones with a nightvision camera app.

Thanks, minnfidel, I just downloaded one. Pretty impressive to 52-yo eyes!

Who is John Galt on October 26, 2012 at 9:00 PM

Looks like 3900 out of 4000 new HA signups during last drive were communist scum.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 3:57 PM

What the he11 are you talking about. If someone disagrees with you, they’re a communist?

Great uninformed conservative whack-job sterotype you’re projecting there.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 9:35 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Oh, OK, then. I’ll embrace uppereastbasement, verbaluce, poked and a huge number of others as conservatives. Should I compile a long list and keep adding to it as these idiots pop in?

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 9:46 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Oh, OK, then. I’ll embrace uppereastbasement, verbaluce, poked and a huge number of others as conservatives. Should I compile a long list and keep adding to it as these idiots pop in?

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 9:46 PM

You know what? Forget it. Obviously your style is gross exaggerations and name-calling. I’ve looked at the thread and you’ve berated a half dozen pretty solid conservatives just because you didn’t agree with them and called them a commie to boot.

And that younger commenter smooth sailing, he’s exactly what he claimed to be and a friend of mine I know in real life. He and his girlfriend have had meals with Mrs. Hawkdriver and myself. He got out of the US Army the year before last and he’s served in the 101st and 82ND Airborne. He’s been to both theaters in his time in the military. And you have the nads to call him a communist? That kids seen more combat than most soldiers see in a lifetime.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:05 PM

NBC/Reuters Report on US Rescue Efforts in Benghazi 9/12/12: http://is.gd/Rm4hQh

Speaking of the rescue mission, he said: “A team of (US) commandos arrived by air and went to a farm which we thought was a secret location. Once they got there, they came under heavy fire from heavy machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and automatic rifles, which resulted in the death of two others.”

He estimated that a dozen or more Americans were hurt.

__________________

Frankly, I wonder if a Carter style failed rescue op occurred that is being covered up as well.

Afterseven on October 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Frankly, I wonder if a Carter style failed rescue op occurred that is being covered up as well.

Afterseven on October 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

No, same fate as Navy SEALs Team 6 in Afghanistan. I don’t buy any of this “coincidence” stuff anymore with Hussein in power. They were sold down the river…

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:12 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:05 PM

I’ll apologize if I have to, but you should go over this entire thread first and understand that I am not the only one taking his posts as just another Hussein lackey. Would I been the only one, then I may see your way. Unfortunately, I am not. By far.

So, you either been sold an empty bag by this guy or he really needs to bone up on info/data before posting here.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:16 PM

I’ll apologize if I have to, but you should go over this entire thread first and understand that I am not the only one taking his posts as just another Hussein lackey. Would I been the only one, then I may see your way. Unfortunately, I am not. By far.

I did. I was on before work for quite a bit of it. You were the only one to question his honesty and the only one to call him a commie.

So, you either been sold an empty bag by this guy or he really needs to bone up on info/data before posting here.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Laughing. You’re throwing out rank supposition and you’re questioning comments that kid made? I’ve read his comments. Post one where he said something that you can point to as being inaccurate. I’ll wait.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:24 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Want to add as I am watching Great and Gen Scales your boy there should seriously watch it, too. Before posting his BS.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:26 PM

So, yes, I’ll stand by my prior posts.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:27 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Want to add as I am watching Great and Gen Scales your boy there should seriously watch it, too. Before posting his BS.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:26 PM

What BS did he post? Point to a comment that was factually wrong.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Watch that Gen Scales interview and let me know which point your boy was accurate on.

Makes it that much easier, IMO. He hit Zero, same as his boy king it seems.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Karma.

It appears a video sparking widespread protests.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 10:34 PM

Watch that Gen Scales interview and let me know which point your boy was accurate on.

Makes it that much easier, IMO. He hit Zero, same as his boy king it seems.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:31 PM

I thought so. You have nothing you can point to in any comment he made.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:35 PM

I thought so. You have nothing you can point to in any comment he made.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Riiiight…

Have no idea why you’re doing this.

OK, you want me to start with Spectre and your boy’s assertions it would be brought down by the guys on the ground? Does he even understand what Spectre is and what it brings? As in death to all below?

I can take EACH and EVERY of his BS points and take it apart.

You want to continue, than I am game. I am simply tired of stupidity on HA and each every Hussein hack claiming this and that.

WATCH THE FRIGGING GEN. SCALES INTERVIEW. Better yet, make your “conservative” friend watch it. Hopefully he’ll change his liberal views. And tell me where his views match those of Gen. Scales.

You’re losing the argument.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Panetta to US citizens:

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta calls the criticism of the Obama administration’s handling of the Libya terror attack “Monday morning quarterbacking.”

Bobmbx to Panetta:

You lost the game. Should we celebrate instead?

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Bobmbx to Panetta:

You lost the game. Should we celebrate instead?

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Did you catch that part where Panetta claims that the decision not do anything was made after consultation with the General Ham in charge of ARFICOM and yet said General Ham says that NO ONE ASKED HIM TO DO ANYTHING.

And the lies keep piling up.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Riiiight…

Have no idea why you’re doing this.

Riiight, smoothsailing never made any assertion you’re claiming.

OK, you want me to start with Spectre and your boy’s assertions it would be brought down by the guys on the ground? Does he even understand what Spectre is and what it brings? As in death to all below?

He didn’t say that

I can take EACH and EVERY of his BS points and take it apart.

I said I’m waiting for just that.

You want to continue, than I am game. I am simply tired of stupidity on HA and each every Hussein hack claiming this and that.

Go1 Start!

WATCH THE FRIGGING GEN. SCALES INTERVIEW. Better yet, make your “conservative” friend watch it. Hopefully he’ll change his liberal views. And tell me where his views match those of Gen. Scales.

You’re losing the argument.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

The Scales interview has nothing to do with a thing smoothsailing said. Or do you forget what you write about?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:51 PM

And obama isn’t his boy king. He been a Romney supporter since before the primaries even started.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:53 PM

He’s been …

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 10:53 PM

Whatever…

Your past and REALLY appreciated service is the only reason I am letting this go. I just hope you evaluate people better in the future.

And I still stand by my prior posts.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Whatever…

Your past and REALLY appreciated service is the only reason I am letting this go. I just hope you evaluate people better in the future.

And I still stand by my prior posts.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Don’t let that hold you back. Freaking point to what the kid said that was wrong. Let me do this for you. Here is the some total of his every comment on this thread. Where in God’s good name did he say anything about a C130? Or any other detail than just asking people to be civil in the way they talked about the military in general?

The building formally known as the Pentagon has become a G-d damned mega mosque whore house of servicing Muslims. The Perfumed Pimps there masquerading as Generals have no regard for America and it’s Constitution or their own troops and they are all out sons-of-#itches, traitors, and chronic dhimmis!

VorDaj on October 26, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Nice to see a story like this bring out the antimiltary crowd found even in the conservative ranks.

Mate, you’re nuts. Get help.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Look like he just got upset here that the entire Pentagon was being attacked. Did that make him a commie?

don’t know who VorDaj is but when you consider the path Major Nadal Hassan took to arrive at Ft. Hood he makes more sense than not.

DanMan on October 26, 2012 at 1:46 PM

You guys let me know if as Republicans you’re going to throw the military under the bus for political points like liberals do. I’m not that seasoned in politics as to owe an affiliation to anyone.

Unless you agree with that old nut that the entire Pentagon is pushing an Islamic agenda?

And riddick. Betrayus? You’re worse than the liberals.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Here he answered someone commenting about his exchange and didn’t like you addressing Gen Petraeus like DKOS.

Does that make him a commie?

And riddick. Betrayus? You’re worse than the liberals.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Oh, I am so upset… Not.

Another communist drone on HA? Its like they take turns, one takes a break and another pops in.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Here’s you calling a braver more patriotic man than yourself a commie because … I guess you argue to the lowest common denominator?

FO arm chair qb. I served six years in the infantry for this country. Half deployed between Iraq and Afghanistan. I’ve got as much right to speak as you. I just don’t see why you have to lump everyone together. Maybe it makes it easier wearing that tin hat.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Nothing he says here in inaccurate.

Go cry in someone else’s cup. Really don’t give a crap about another commie here, way too many of you lately claim to be many things.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Here you call him a “commie” again and call him a liar.

Wow, I’m a commie because I pointed out that you used “Betrayus” like the looney left does? That’s good to know. And in the mean time while we’re wishing the news would report this story, folks like you are amping it up to shooter in the grassy knoll levels.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Here he’s asking you a question. Hard to be wrong, when you’re asking a question.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM

How long were you in a coma?

VorDaj on October 26, 2012 at 3:58 PM

And here the f’cking idiot asks him how long he was in a coma. A man who’s never seen a day of combat.

Did that make him a commie?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Are you ready to do battle with his comments about C130s that he never made?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:02 PM

You’re losing the argument.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

.
No, he’s not. There are a lot of people on HA who will take hawkdriver’s word over yours any day of the week.

He’s not the one who is failing to cite any specifics.

Do you really think your dodging looks like anything else than being completely wrong?

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:07 PM

Did you catch that part where Panetta claims that the decision not do anything was made after consultation with the General Ham in charge of ARFICOM and yet said General Ham says that NO ONE ASKED HIM TO DO ANYTHING.

And the lies keep piling up.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Yes, I caught that. I’ve highlighted a disturbing statement.

Since when do military officers wait to be asked to engage the enemy? I was always under the impression that senior military officers, especially 4 stars, offer options, make risk assessments and recommendations to the civilian leadership, and then await orders.

In the above quote, is Gen. Ham saying he was waiting by the phone the whole time, and it never rang so he just went on back to bed? I would be more comfortable with him saying “I made recommendations and did not receive authorization to respond with military assets” or something like that.

This is getting stinkier every time somebody denies having any responsibility.

Also of note is that so far no one has admitted to having actually done anything….all we have is a laundry list of things that no one didn’t do.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:07 PM

Lookie here, what have we got? Why, yes, another Hussein apologist. Defending his comrades.

This is a comedy routine now.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Yes, I caught that. I’ve highlighted a disturbing statement.

Since when do military officers wait to be asked to engage the enemy? I was always under the impression that senior military officers, especially 4 stars, offer options, make risk assessments and recommendations to the civilian leadership, and then await orders.

In the above quote, is Gen. Ham saying he was waiting by the phone the whole time, and it never rang so he just went on back to bed? I would be more comfortable with him saying “I made recommendations and did not receive authorization to respond with military assets” or something like that.

This is getting stinkier every time somebody denies having any responsibility.

Also of note is that so far no one has admitted to having actually done anything….all we have is a laundry list of things that no one didn’t do.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM

My first reaction as well, What do you mean no one asked you?

Besides making sure that we know now that Panetta lied, yet again, it is clear that our top military commanders need to go. They are as complicit in this as anyone in WH cabinet.

My jaw dropped not only because of hearing someone like Chafetz to say that Gen. Han “was not asked”, but the way he thinks about it. He sees nothing wrong with General Han’s actions of not being PRO-ACTIVE.

Is there anyone in our active military who understands what we’re fighting and how to fight it?

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:20 PM

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:07 PM

Lookie here, what have we got? Why, yes, another Hussein apologist. Defending his comrades.

This is a comedy routine now.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Is that the default. You can’t answer so you call someone a commie.

So, in the manner you address PolAgnostic’s comment, I can extrapolate that you consider him a commie Hussien apologist and by virtue of association, smooth sailing and myself are too. I’m a Hussien apologist that is a comrade of PolAgnostic?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:21 PM

And in ignoring my comment you think you’re not wrong in the manner you characterized smoothsailing comments on this thread? Did you find where he made a comment about an AC130 Gunship?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Is there anyone in our active military who understands what we’re fighting and how to fight it?

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Just for the record, which branch did you serve in. Sounds like Marine Corps, but I’m just throwing out a guess.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM

WATCH THE FRIGGING GEN. SCALES INTERVIEW. Better yet, make your “conservative” friend watch it. Hopefully he’ll change his liberal views. And tell me where his views match those of Gen. Scales.

You’re losing the argument.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

I went back through the thread again and looked at smooth’s comments. I was curious which one smacked of sounding liberal. I’m also confused where you read something he said that you can even compare to the Scales interview. Can you post that for me?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:28 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Like I said to you above, WHATEVER.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:15 PM


Ahhhhhh, you really do think dodging and deflecting and name calling work.

Hmmmmmm, where have we seen that behavior before?

Who does that ALL the time?

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Riddick, am I really a “Hussein apologist”? Am I really a commie and a comrade?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Like I said to you above, WHATEVER.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

I don’t understand, “WHATEVER”. Are you admitting you were wrong about every single thing that smooth sailing posted?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:30 PM

You know, I messed up the quoting here. Lemme fix it and see if you can’t try to address it again.

Whatever…

Your past and REALLY appreciated service is the only reason I am letting this go. I just hope you evaluate people better in the future.

And I still stand by my prior posts.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Don’t let that hold you back. Freaking point to what the kid said that was wrong. Let me do this for you. Here is the some total of his every comment on this thread. Where in God’s good name did he say anything about a C130? Or any other detail than just asking people to be civil in the way they talked about the military in general?

The building formally known as the Pentagon has become a G-d damned mega mosque whore house of servicing Muslims. The Perfumed Pimps there masquerading as Generals have no regard for America and it’s Constitution or their own troops and they are all out sons-of-#itches, traitors, and chronic dhimmis!

VorDaj on October 26, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Nice to see a story like this bring out the antimiltary crowd found even in the conservative ranks.

Mate, you’re nuts. Get help.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Look like he just got upset here that the entire Pentagon was being attacked. Did that make him a commie?

don’t know who VorDaj is but when you consider the path Major Nadal Hassan took to arrive at Ft. Hood he makes more sense than not.

DanMan on October 26, 2012 at 1:46 PM

You guys let me know if as Republicans you’re going to throw the military under the bus for political points like liberals do. I’m not that seasoned in politics as to owe an affiliation to anyone.

Unless you agree with that old nut that the entire Pentagon is pushing an Islamic agenda?

And riddick. Betrayus? You’re worse than the liberals.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Here he answered someone commenting about his exchange and didn’t like you addressing Gen Petraeus like DKOS.

Does that make him a commie?

And riddick. Betrayus? You’re worse than the liberals.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM

Oh, I am so upset… Not.

Another communist drone on HA? Its like they take turns, one takes a break and another pops in.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Here’s you calling a braver more patriotic man than yourself a commie because … I guess you argue to the lowest common denominator?

FO arm chair qb. I served six years in the infantry for this country. Half deployed between Iraq and Afghanistan. I’ve got as much right to speak as you. I just don’t see why you have to lump everyone together. Maybe it makes it easier wearing that tin hat.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Nothing he says here in inaccurate.

Go cry in someone else’s cup. Really don’t give a crap about another commie here, way too many of you lately claim to be many things.

riddick on October 26, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Here you call him a “commie” again and call him a liar.

Wow, I’m a commie because I pointed out that you used “Betrayus” like the looney left does? That’s good to know. And in the mean time while we’re wishing the news would report this story, folks like you are amping it up to shooter in the grassy knoll levels.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Here he’s asking you a question. Hard to be wrong, when you’re asking a question.

smoothsailing on October 26, 2012 at 2:05 PM

How long were you in a coma?

VorDaj on October 26, 2012 at 3:58 PM

And here the f’cking idiot asks him how long he was in a coma. A man who’s never seen a day of combat.

Did that make him a commie?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:00 PM

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:35 PM

Is that the default. You can’t answer so you call someone a commie.

So, in the manner you address PolAgnostic’s comment, I can extrapolate that you consider him a commie Hussien apologist and by virtue of association, smooth sailing and myself are too. I’m a Hussien apologist that is a comrade of PolAgnostic?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:21 PM

.
You are by far the more moderate of the two of us, hawkdriver.

I’d put you somewhere just to the right of Ronald Reagan.

And you know I have to be a fan of EVERY liberal troll on here for my squishy stances on “what to do if you find someone raping your child”, gun rights or anyone of a dozen other topics someone could Google easily enough.

As far as this fellow is concerned, I’ve made a classification based on behavior.

Click on the link I just posted and see what you think.

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM

Click on the link I just posted and see what you think.

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM

It just links to this page.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:39 PM

It just links to this page.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:39 PM

.
Well, let’s try it on a more direct approach.

http://atrueobamanation.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-scoamf-stratagem.html

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

riddick, the ease at which you described finding comments by smoothsailing completely missing the boat on the use of AC130 gunships has me most curious. Are you going to post them?

Here’s what you posted …

OK, you want me to start with Spectre and your boy’s assertions it would be brought down by the guys on the ground? Does he even understand what Spectre is and what it brings? As in death to all below?

I’m really interested to see what you say he said about them. You know, he’s probably talked on the radio to one or two CAS aircraft in his time on the radio. Maybe even an AC130. He might have said something on this thread about them. Where was that?

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Serendipity…or conspiracy?

On the TCM network, thats Turner Classic Movies…Ted Turner, they’re playing “All The Presidents Men”.

Wow.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Serendipity…or conspiracy?

On the TCM network, thats Turner Classic Movies…Ted Turner, they’re playing “All The Presidents Men”.

Wow.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Bob, you know if this were a Republican Administration, there would be wall to wall media coverage/hearings and CSPAN would air special sessions to boot. Every movie about political corruption would be playing and it would all be aimed at the administraion. In this case, I’m betting coincidence. The media is still fighting tooth and nail for their guy and wouldn’t even think about projecting an optic like that.

I saw an article link eariler with the prez and Brain Williams. Benghazi didn’t come up once.

hawkdriver on October 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Serendipity…or conspiracy?

On the TCM network, thats Turner Classic Movies…Ted Turner, they’re playing “All The Presidents Men”.

Wow.

BobMbx on October 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

.
And they are at the point where Woodward and Bernstein almost screw it all up …

… by not getting it all 100% accurate.

I want the SCOAMF’s hide nailed to the wall.

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 12:02 AM

PolAgnostic on October 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM

I get you now. Is that your site?

riddick is certainly not anything like the president. His comments attacking people here tonight are just plain stupid though. Most reasonable people can still be very angry at this administration and still be pragmatic about waiting for the rest of the details to be revealed before going off the deep end.

I honestly feel like there are actions that have been taken and not taken over Benghazi that could very easily be considered impeachable offenses. Time will tell over that. Sad to see the commenting here in the mean time pretty much insinuating that if you aren’t lock step with early opinion, you’re somehow an obama supporter for God’s sake.

riddick, if you ever wanted any credibility here again with any reasonable person, you might want to consider at least admitting you were completely wrong about what you said smooth sailing said. If what you were asserting is your justification for calling a former soldier a commie/Hussein apologist, you’re wrong about that too.

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 12:09 AM

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 12:09 AM
.
No, not my site – but I wanted to try to get across to riddick how his behavior comes across.

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 12:13 AM

riddick, are you feverishly searching for some comment smooth sailing made that you can point to or are you trying to justify how you could have been so wrong without admitting it?

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 12:15 AM

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 12:09 AM
.
No, not my site – but I wanted to try to get across to riddick how his behavior comes across.

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 12:13 AM

He’s a tough fighter for the cause. He’s just wrong and won’t admit it.

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 12:17 AM

Thanks, minnfidel, I just downloaded one. Pretty impressive to 52-yo eyes!

Who is John Galt on October 26, 2012 at 9:00 PM

No prob. That though is a problem for team Zero. Contrary to what some posters like GWB and, well, others might say. There is very little reason to go and designate a target until you’re ready. Our people know this and especially SEALS. The new apps on smart phones and some video cams allow the enemey to detect laser des. It’s not like the movies where there’s a red dot on Achmeds head. They can see the beam source. So for Agpol and others. Just ask yourself this, Knowing that. Imagine, you’re in Benghazi, it’s 9-11. You’re badly outnumbered, your only other ground help are a few Renta Cops who are dead or fled. Your repeated requests for support or to engage are sixed. So you decide, “hey, I got a sweet idea, let’s go on the roof and tag some stuff for fun!!” Yea, not bloddy likely. They didn’t do it for no reason.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 12:46 AM

Just ask yourself this, Knowing that. Imagine, you’re in Benghazi, it’s 9-11. You’re badly outnumbered, your only other ground help are a few Renta Cops who are dead or fled. Your repeated requests for support or to engage are sixed. So you decide, “hey, I got a sweet idea, let’s go on the roof and tag some stuff for fun!!” Yea, not bloddy likely. They didn’t do it for no reason.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 12:46 AM

.
There are rail mounted IR laser designators that can be used with a NVD to put a dot on Achmed’s body just before you blow a hole through it.

If Achmed and his buddies want to expose themselves to try to locate you with their cell phones or video cam while you are shooting at them – they would just be proving stupid is fatal.

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 3:31 AM

Good morning all, Hawk and Pol.

Dang, this thread became painful to read. Come on, Riddick, I always thought you were one of the good guys. You just got caught up in your righteous anger about what happened in Benghazi. Can’t you just man up and apologize?

BigAlSouth on October 27, 2012 at 6:55 AM

. . . and WHATEVER is not an apology.

BigAlSouth on October 27, 2012 at 6:55 AM

anybody, ANYBODY, who tries to appear calm and make the argument that hussein is TRYING, is an apologist for a traitor, and will BE DEALT WITH!!!!!!!

tm11999 on October 27, 2012 at 7:04 AM

There are rail mounted IR laser designators that can be used with a NVD to put a dot on Achmed’s body just before you blow a hole through it.

If Achmed and his buddies want to expose themselves to try to locate you with their cell phones or video cam while you are shooting at them – they would just be proving stupid is fatal.

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 3:31 AM

Yes, I know. I’ve used them thanks. Achmed and co. wouldn’t nessicarily expose their positions by using a camera, phone etc. They would be able to see the source of the beam depending on their position. This is actually a growing problem we’re having. It started later on in Iruck and Stain where the technology has caught up to some of what we have.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 8:25 AM

So maybe they did it in the hopes that it would be detected and disrupt the attackers by forcing them into a defensive posture.

It’s possible that it was set up in a location that wouldn’t compromise their position.

blink on October 27, 2012 at 1:45 AM

Possible sure. But why when you’re that outnumbered would you want to risk exposing your pos?

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 8:27 AM

blink on October 27, 2012 at 12:31 PM

The only obvious explanation (if no AC-130 was there) is that the bad guys might know they were being “painted” and would hesitate to use the mortar.

BigAlSouth on October 27, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Possible sure. But why when you’re that outnumbered would you want to risk exposing your pos?

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 8:27 AM

You keep making this statement about “exposing your position”.

The Fox News account says the CIA security officer at the annex was the one using a laser designator while Woods and Doherty were firing a machine gun.

Firing a machine gun at night is not an exercise in stealth behavior. Everyone for a significant radius around you is going to see and hear where the machine gun was being fired.

The terrorists attacking are firing mortar rounds, not a sniper rifle. If they drop a round on the roof where you are, they are going to hit you.

You also stated,

“They would be able to see the source of the beam depending on their position. This is actually a growing problem we’re having.”

Laser designators operate in the infrared wavelength and are not visible to the human eye. Without a cell phone or camcorder able to detect the laser, how are the bad guys able to see the laser?

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Why were we there? I am a housewife, daughter of a Marine, a mom and even I get it that Libya was not a place to go on 9-11. I also get it that if I did send guys into a dangerous area, I would have a damn good backup plan, on the ready, to get their asses out of there if there is trouble. So, where was the plan to get out if things went to shiite? Before we get to who did not issue the order of protection, I want to know who ordered them into Libya, and who did not have an extraction plan on the ready if they called for help. This was not freaking Paris!!!!!!!!!

Our military members are Supermen, and they IMHO can do anything. Sorry, but that is the plain and simple of it from where I sit. If you ask them to do a job, by God they will do it, and they will do it like no other force on the planet Earth. But they can only do this if they have good leaders. It is our jobs as civilians to give them that, and we failed. I pray to God Almighty we change this in November. If our “special” folks had been asked to do their jobs, the ones they train daily for, they would have done it, but somewhere on the line several people, because this is not just a POTUS deal IMHO, several peoples epically failed. Politics on every level came into play here.

For years, under different Administrations, we have seen political correct ROEs, or political military animals hamper, hinder, and cost the very lives of those who volunteered to protect Americans. The lines have been blurred over who the enemy is, and how you fight them. It is time for old school guys to take charge. West or Boykin come to mind, but no matter what, when Romney is sworn in, WE, WE the civilians must push for a clean sweep when it comes to those who are teaching political ways in fighting the enemy, and teaching our soldiers something different other than what they should be. We cannot and must not allow our men and women to be commanded by corrupt people. Tyrone Woods’ Dad is correct, we need more moral, honorable, men to be leading our military. At this juncture I am reminded of what military leaders said after Fort Hood, and those are not the words which should have come from a general leading men and women into harms way. It was sickening.

Our kids last year, in AFROTC college setting, at conservative school were told they had to think about what type of leaders they wanted to be because things need to change, or we are in trouble. They were taught, our military, while a force for good, is tasked with killing the bad guys, and not being political animals. It was God, and country all the way. I can tell you that none of the other kids in training with them would have rejected an order to stand down, or not to launch everything to save those in Libya. It might have cost them their jobs, but they would not have stepped down. Maybe over the years they might be changed, and maybe over the years our military people in command have become jaded, but I know our two would have never stepped down. Never. So what has happened over the years to cause the disconnect? What has happened to where intimidation, or fear from those above would have caused our military to not act as they normally would have? It has to stop. Whatever is going on has to stop.

There is a fog here being created by the Regime. We are all arguing about who might be the criminal, but we must not do so at the risk of forgetting that 4 people died in Libya, and OTHERS DIED IN AFGHANISTAN right after those in Libya died. There are more than 4 dead in all this mess. There are more than just POTUS who should be held accountable. That is for sure. At this point, the only thing we can do as civilians is to vote Evil Overlord out, and push hard for the incoming Congress and President Romney to do what was not done over the U.S.S. Cole, and Black Hawk Down. We must not, we cannot let this go because of politics. No more offerings up to the other side because we want to make nice, and be above the fray. NO MORE, and not with this one. Americans want the answers, and they must demand them as well as punishments. So, as we fight over this just remember it after you vote. We owe it to these guys, and we owe all those who for all the years the military has had to suffer under the most insane ROEs, and insane PC training BS since the founding of this nation. We, WE, WE THE PEOPLE owe them and their families better, and as you vote in the future, a person might want to remember our military members before you pull the lever. Does your candidate really support them, and their families, or is it just lip service?

freeus on October 27, 2012 at 1:32 PM

Laser designators operate in the infrared wavelength and are not visible to the human eye. Without a cell phone or camcorder able to detect the laser, how are the bad guys able to see the laser?

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Sooo you don’t think they have smart phones or cameras over there?

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Let me just ask you. Are you definitively claiming that an AC-130 was overhead because of this, or do you think it’s possible there are other explanations for this?

blink on October 27, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Not nessicarily an AC-130 We have quite a few other assets. My point is that there would be very very little reason to designate unless you were in com with air. They were plenty busy so taking the time to do that makes very little sense considering everything going on.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 1:58 PM

“had comms”

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 2:01 PM

I think we are not on the same page yet …

Yes, I know. I’ve used them thanks. Achmed and co. wouldn’t nessicarily expose their positions by using a camera, phone etc. They would be able to see the source of the beam depending on their position. This is actually a growing problem we’re having. It started later on in Iruck and Stain where the technology has caught up to some of what we have.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 8:25 AM

.
If you are using a cell phone or cam corder to locate someone’s position with any degree of accuracy using an IR laser designator you are going to need to position your eye fairly well in the line of sight. Let me try a crude diagram:

………………………………………..Cell….Eye
LD ————————————————————-
LD offset location

I can’t allow for the gap from the LD to when the IR beam would be detected coming over the edge of the roof line due to how HA compresses if I use the space bar. The other major fator would be raltive humidity and dust in terms of making the LD beam detectable even with a NVD – the beams “visibility to a NVD being a function of it illuminating the humidity or dust in the air.

If Achmed is not the item being designated, the further to the side of the LD beam he is located the greater the inaccuracy of being able to estmate the LD’s location. The accounts I have read put the CIA security person on the same rooftop as Woods and Doherty firing the machine gun – which I think we can agree is already giving away the fact that American personnel were on the roof.

So how is the LD giving away your position under these circumstances?

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 2:46 PM

.
Just noticed I forgot to say “LD offset location” is the where Achmed is going to estimate the LD’s location based on where he is relative to the LD beam, his ability to do math in his head, etc.

PolAgnostic on October 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Does it matter if there was a laser or not? If there was an aircraft overhead?

1. If there was an aircraft overhead, it didn’t engage. Why?

2. If there wasn’t an aircraft overhead, why not?

Any other discussion has no value. The answers to both questions above are the whole point. And “someone” has to answer them.

With the sudden rash of senior military officer “replacements”, I think the answers will be coming from the civilians who control the military.

I also think the disgust we all feel right now is but an “hors de over” of whats coming relative to this whole story.

BobMbx on October 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

I also think the disgust we all feel right now is but an “hors de over” of whats coming relative to this whole story.

BobMbx on October 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM

I just wish someone would cover it Bob. What happened to investigative reporting and trying to scoop the other networks. Rhetorical, I know.

Bret Baier is covering as well as he can.

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Well said Bob. It really doesn’t matter. Either way we left them hanging out to die.
The failure was horrific.. The cover up makes it worse.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Pol Agnostic. I am done with you. I have personally witnessed it happen. Ill leave you to your theories. Bob nailed it.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 2:59 PM

“had comms”

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 2:01 PM

hawkdriver, are you also Minnfidel?

blink on October 27, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Of course not. But we never say in coms (sic). You’d say I “have comms” or “had comms” or I’m “in communications with” (rarely). I’ve never heard anyone say I’m “in com”.

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Really? You’re spell checking now? Im traveling so typing on an ii phone isnt exactly condusive to double checking my spelling. Good lord.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Really? You’re spell checking now? Im traveling so typing on an ii phone isnt exactly condusive to double checking my spelling. Good lord.

Minnfidel on October 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Sorry Dude. Not a big deal but not spelling. Radio phraseology. I’ve been talking on radios the better pasrt of four decades and never heard military folks say, “in com”. That’s all.

hawkdriver on October 27, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Comment pages: 1 6 7 8 9