Romney wins the debate season — and the key test for a challenger; Update: Romney hits 50% in Rasmussen tracker, up 4

posted at 9:21 am on October 23, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Allahpundit linked to National Journal’s Ron Fournier last night in his excellent roundup of the debate analysis, but it’s worth considering again the next morning after the final debate of the 2012 presidential cycle.  Like many pundits after the debate, Fournier gives Barack Obama the edge on debate performance last night, but writes that Mitt Romney won the overall debate season — perhaps because Romney, unlike Obama, understood the stakes:

Mitt Romney wins. That’s not to say he won Monday night’s debate or the presidential campaign, but it’s safe to say he won an important chapter: The debate season.

With an acceptable, though far from exceptional, performance in his third and final face-off with President Obama, the former Massachusetts governor became one of the few presidential candidates to make debates matter.

Bottom line: Obama won Monday night’s debate on points, benefiting from the blessings of incumbency and hard-world experience. But the challenger held his own, and thus the state of the race is likely unchanged.

Debates between the two presidential candidates are ostensibly to force them to defend their agendas.  They mainly get used to produce sound bites, zingers, and gaffes that the media hopes to use to define the race.  Their real value to voters, however, is to test the presidential mettle of each man.  A President is presumed to have more of it, by virtue of his four years in the office already, so the challenger has to work hard to equal or surpass his stature.  Romney did that in the first debate, and in the two succeeding debates solidified his standing as a man at least Obama’s equal.

In fact, Chris Wallace wondered whether Romney was the one with the gravitas of incumbency last night:

Yeah, let me first give you my general opinion. And that was, I thought in the middle of the debate that if I had been on the desert island for the last four years and I had just been parachuted into this debate, I would have thought the guy that had turned out to be Mitt Romney was the president protecting a lead and that Barack Obama was the challenger trying, somewhat desperately to catch up.

Obama was slashing, was personal, was cutting, I thought that Romney was big-picture, seemed to have much more of an agenda for the future than the President did.  I e-mailed one of his top aides in the course of the debate, and said, “What’s behind this strategy?” Clearly he was not taking the bait, not getting into fights with Barack Obama.  This official said, “This is all Mitt Romney’s idea.  This is how he wants to conduct this debate.”

Remember Morrissey’s Axiom on Politics and Dating? Desperation is not an aphrodisiac.  Small wonder, then, that even in a PPP poll that proclaimed Obama the winner of the debate by eleven points in swing states that the net movement for both men wound up in the margin of error (+6 for Obama and +3 for Romney) — and not even among likely voters.

On substance, this was the least-relevant debate of them all.  Not only are voters not really watching for substance — which they could get rather easily by watching campaign speeches, after all — but foreign policy isn’t even really on their radar at all.  This economy is still all about jobs and the economy, as I point out in my column for The Week:

No matter who you think won last night’s presidential debate, it’s unlikely to have much bearing on the presidential election. In the end, voters simply don’t care about the issues of foreign policy anywhere near as much as they do about their own economic security.

That, by the way, is the norm for American presidential elections. In the last four presidential cycles, only 2004′s matchup between incumbent George W. Bush and John Kerry produced a foreign-policy issue with more mentions as “the most important problem” facing the nation among Gallup’s respondentsthan a domestic-policy issue. Not surprisingly, voters expressed considerable concern over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, two major campaign issues in that cycle, with 23 percent listing wars as among their most pressing problems in the final month before the election. The economy in general only got mentioned by 21 percent of respondents, although 12 percent also mentioned unemployment. …

Gallup’s latest polling among American adults confirms this focus. While foreign policy may be the one arena where presidents have the most impact, it gets the least amount of concern in this cycle. This election has the largest percentage of “net economic mentions” of any of the last four cycles — even slightly higher than 2008, in the middle of the panic over the possible collapse of the financial sector (72 percent to 69 percent, respectively). Almost two-thirds of the responses came from “the economy in general” and “unemployment,” and 12 percent from the federal budget deficit. The wars, which still got 11 percent of the mentions in 2008, have now dropped to 3 percent in 2012.

These numbers do not change appreciably between men and women, either. In fact, women were slightly more likely to mention the economy and unemployment (64 percent) than men (62 percent). Health care came in a distant third for women (10 percent), while for men the federal deficit got the bronze (14 percent). Foreign policy only got mentioned by 3 percent of men and 4 percent of women overall — and in a blow to the Obama campaign’s attempt to stoke their “war on women” meme, only 1 percent of women even mentioned abortion.

This result shows how out of touch and off-key the Obama campaign has been in the final few weeks of the election. While Obama and Co. focused on Big Bird, voters worried about jobs. While Democrats obsessed about “binders,” women across the country were far more concerned with the economy.

Obama can’t win on the economy, and he can’t distract voters away from it.  And in a debate on stage alone with his challenger, he can’t even come up with enough gravitas to make himself look like he already has the job.  With two weeks to go, that’s a bad position for an incumbent.

Update: This obviously doesn’t include reaction to last night’s debate, but Romney hit 50% in Rasmussen’s tracking poll for the first time since early May, and now has a 4-point lead over Obama.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

The President clearly was the better debater in the last two of three.

That’s a winning “debate season” in my book.

chumpThreads on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Obama just had to borrow $15M from BOA. WINNER?

ctmom on October 23, 2012 at 10:07 AM

It was enlightening to hear Rush explain why polls are done the way they are and how the objective of most pollsters was to keep Obama in the lead when all the polls were averaged. If you accept that most of the pollsters were leaning toward Obama, this explanation makes sense. Still, as the election nears, most of them want to maintain some credibility so they tend to be more accurate near the end. As Rush said, this shift to Romney isn’t new, it’s just been kept silent.

swinia sutki on October 23, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Romney will be the next President of this great Nation. 0 is Done!

Bmore on October 23, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Flora Duh on October 23, 2012 at 9:56 AM

It is going to be a hoot to watch the MSM gett more and more depressed as Election Day approaches. The production staffs are going to have to clear the news sets of sharp objects that night.

It’s going to be great.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 9:58 AM

An enjoyable death spiral we’ve been waiting for

workingclass artist on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Romney will be the next President of this great Nation. 0 is Done!

Bmore on October 23, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Bmore on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

So whose dress was more expensive Ann’s or Michelle’s? Isn’t that the most important take-away of the night? /s

IdrilofGondolin on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

WTH?!?!

Bmore on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

“This nation. Me.”

ROTFL. Oh, dear Lord.

RepubChica on October 23, 2012 at 9:37 AM

“L’etat c’est moi”- Barry Napoleon

suzeecue on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Romney extending his lead from +2 to +4 is particularly significant given that two of the three polling days reflected in this tracker were weekend days, which have frequently favored Democrats.

Right Mover on October 23, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Yes. Rasmussen is an average of the three previous days, so this morning’s numbers are the result of surveys done on Sat, Sun, and Mon. And I have noticed that Tuesdays have been Obama’s best day of the week in Rasmussen polling, while Saturdays (the result of surveys from Wed, Thurs, and Fri) are historically Obama’s worst day of the week in Rasmussen polling.

Expect the Rasmussen numbers to get even better for Romney between now and Saturday.

ITguy on October 23, 2012 at 10:10 AM

The President clearly was the better debater in the last two of three.

That’s a winning “debate season” in my book.

chumpThreads on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Obama was better with personal attacks and strawman arguments in the last two, which is why you see the popular “wisdom” as him winning them – the press is in the tank for him, so his antics make them all hard.

The peeps know better, however, as evidenced by poll movement.

spinach.chin on October 23, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Obama better hope Gloria Allred has something pretty juicy because if these Gallup and Rasmussen numbers are correct, it’s over.

mitchellvii on October 23, 2012 at 10:12 AM

The bottom line is this. Our enemies abroad do not fear Barack Obama. American citizens do.

Game set and match Romney.

jrgdds on October 23, 2012 at 9:42 AM

wow, nailed it

that should be a Romney tag line!

I thought Romney won all three debates decisively
(Obama gets wins for being awake and attacking with lies?)
sure he missed and was ganged up on about Benghazi
but not responding to it last night allow his tv ads with the timeline spoken through the obama administration and his surrogates to expose this.

the new outlets will bring up – why didn’t he talk about it – which only makes the situation worse

people are not stupid,
no one bought the movie crap, 4 Americans died and our president botched it. They have already drawn their own conclusions.

talking about the middle east in a larger scope with a tactical viewpoint was brilliant on Romney’s part

audiotom on October 23, 2012 at 10:13 AM

it’s over.

mitchellvii on October 23, 2012 at 10:12 AM

That’s all you needed to write.

cozmo on October 23, 2012 at 10:14 AM

What we saw lastnight was a leader (Romney) debating an entertainer (Obama). His act might play on late night TV, or even daytime TV to welfare queens sitting on their couch all day. However, without his TelePrompTer and zombiefied crowds to use it on, his true personality showed through. And it isn’t a pretty picture.

While the lefty Dems have been waiting for the angry black man to show up and tell whitey off, most normal thinking Americans don’t want that. The last two we saw the bitter, snarky, insulting Chicago community orginizer that Rev. Wright was so proud of once upon a time.

Romney closed the deal with the American public like he had to lastnight. Now it’s GOTV time.

Lastnight, Mitt Romney assumed the presidency of the United States two weeks early. He was the adult in the room. He was the leader. He is the man with a plan.

Get ready for President Romney.

Rockshine on October 23, 2012 at 10:14 AM

People keep saying Obama won the second and third debates on points. How exactly were those points scored? Were the pundits watching the same debates as the rest of us? I’m mean, really, Obama won?

Obama merely bothered to participate and be his lousy self in debate two and three. Of course the pundits are going to say he won. They have nothing else. But saying he won and explaining how he won are two different things. The only explanation is that the pundits like the nasty, sneering, attitude, and lack of command of the issues. That apparently is winning if your are a Democrat incumbent President.

It’s over. Romney is on his way to a not so close win. Hopefully a landslide.

As the “Oiho” polls start using likely voters and models closer to reality, even the media will understand that it is over. Even with the extra seven Obama States it’s over.

All that is left to wonder about is how much rioting will happen when Romney wins.

Clint Eastwood was right. Obama is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on America. How did we get to where we are now?

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:15 AM

So whose dress was more expensive Ann’s or Michelle’s? Isn’t that the most important take-away of the night? /s

IdrilofGondolin on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Only if you include that Ann paid for her dress, and we paid for Moochelle’s.

BettyRuth on October 23, 2012 at 10:15 AM

“L’etat c’est moi”- Barry Napoleon

suzeecue on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Louis Barry XIV

Resist We Much on October 23, 2012 at 10:16 AM

“I think that’s why you see the closing argument style of advertising that they have, that’s being unveiled today,” Todd said. “It’s Obama candid in the camera. You look at the president’s closing statement last night. I think they now realize that they don’t have — two weeks is not enough time to have the conversation with voters that they want to have. He missed his opportunity. He blew it in that first debate. If the president tactically, if they lose this election, tactically, the biggest mistake will be the president’s performance in that first debate because it gave him the room to do that.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/23/chuck-todd-too-late-for-obama-to-disqualify-mitt-romney-has-to-requalify-himself/#ixzz2A8EIhalO

workingclass artist on October 23, 2012 at 10:17 AM

It’s safe to say Obama won over Soledad O’Brien last night…and no one else

Slade73 on October 23, 2012 at 10:18 AM

Obama is sinking on intrade today. Kunta? Where are you?

stackedeck on October 23, 2012 at 9:27 AM

Desperately trying to sell the Obama stock he bought at $7.50 or $8.00?

Romney is at $4.20 – $4.40 right now (the market is jumping around quite a bit). That’s a ~7-10% gain.

strictnein on October 23, 2012 at 10:18 AM

As I predicted, a whole new approach to debate analysis from Ed.
And the commenters as well.

Obama won the debate…but now we’ll get to hear why such things ‘don’t matter’.
Ha.
I don’t even really disagree too much with that…but it sure is a new message here.

Indeed Romney was playing a safe game – he knew he had nothing to offer on FP and instead used his time to present version 3.2 ‘Appeal to Women’ Mitt.
Obama should have countered that a lot more than he did. In his confidence over FP, he neglected responding to what Romney was really trying to message last night – the ‘gee shucks, I’m just a peace guy’ lines.
I remain much more confident than pollsters or campaign strategists in the overall intelligence of women – so I doubt Romney gained much here. The sad puppy face doesn’t have the appeal he might think.
Obama’s strong and substantive FP performance will be a real factor for undecideds.
I wouldn’t bother looking at any polls ’til next week.
But I know you guys won’t be able to resist Rasmussen…

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Last night really solidified what a pompous a$$ BO can be. Especially the comment on bayonets. I guess someone forgot to tell him the Army and Marine Corps still do some training with them during boot camp so they can learn close quarter fighting.
But then, BO wouldn’t really know anything about that.

RadioAngel on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Just as the fake polling in 1980 did Carter no good, so now has the fake polling this season not done Obama any good. One could argue persuasively that polling is ineffective as a coercive tool.

mitchellvii on October 23, 2012 at 10:04 AM

Polls have been used as an instrument of propaganda since before many of us were born.

The New York kingmakers realized they could not capture the 1944 Republican nomination either with Willkie or with the same type of last-minute blitz they had used in 1940. This time they went into action earlier. They discovered and developed a new political weapon: the Gallup Poll. Dr. George Gallup began asking a lot of questions of a very few people, and — funny thing — he usually came up with answers that pleased the New York kingmakers.

The Gallup Poll has been used repeatedly as a subtle propaganda machine to sell the Republicans on the false propositions that the GOP cannot win unless it (1) continues the New Deal foreign policy and (2) names candidates who will appeal to left-leaning Democrats and liberals.

- From Chapter Six, “The Pollsters and the Hoaxers”, of Phyllis Schlafly’s 1964 book: A Choice Not an Echo – The Inside Story of How American Presidents Are Chosen

It used to be effective when they had control of the media, and the media controlled the narrative.

But now, with widespread use of the Internet, the media no longer controls the narrative. The bias of the polls can be, and has been, exposed. And that effectively disarms the weaponized polls.

ITguy on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM

The President clearly was the better debater in the last two of three.

That’s a winning “debate season” in my book.

chumpThreads on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Perfect, you take the win…Romney takes the votes…not a problem with that trade, in fact give Obama a trophy for being the best debater, not a problem.

I have a feeling Obama would like to trade numbers with Romney right now…he is wondering, how can I lose a debate as effectively as Mitt.

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Gallup and Rasmussen are two of the most respected and accurate pollsters who poll EVERY day and not just once a month. There is no way that they would both be seeing a huge swing toward Mitt if it wasn’t there. The fact that he is 50+ in both polls with obama at 46% is huge. I originally said Romney 52-47 and I may be shortchanging Mitt a little with that one, but I’ll stick with it for now.

Ta111 on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Charles Krauthammer agrees that Mitt did exactly what he needed to do to win over certain groups of voters, and that he did it with exactly the right tone. Obama, on the other hand, did not fare so well:
VIDEO:http://www.therightscoop.com/krauthammer-its-unequivocal-romney-won/

bluegill on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 AM

it’s over.

mitchellvii on October 23, 2012 at 10:12 AM

I really hope so. I’m just worried about Ohio, Penn, Colorado, and Wisconsin. I don’t want to win the popular vote and lose the electoral.

Oil Can on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Well, at least Scooter still has the Honey Boo Boo vote.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 9:53 AM

OMW, you made me breath in my coffee, too funny!

wi farmgirl on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 AM

The real winners? The American people who will never again have to sit through a debate where Barack Obama is a participant.

natasha333 on October 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM

This obviously doesn’t include reaction to last night’s debate, but Romney hit 50% in Rasmussen’s tracking poll for the first time since early May, and now has a 4-point lead over Obama.

So when can Rasmussen expect a call from Eric Holder?

GarandFan on October 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM

As the “Oiho” polls start using likely voters and models closer to reality, even the media will understand that it is over. Even with the extra seven Obama States it’s over.

Romney leads 50-45 in Ras’ Daily Swing State Tracker. Now, that means that he is either winning Ohio now, or, if he’s still behind in Ohio (very unlikely), then he’s got insurmountable leads in the other swing states.

Right Mover on October 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM

“L’etat c’est moi”- Barry Napoleon

suzeecue on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Shouldn’t that be “-King Barry XIV”?

ITguy on October 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM

I originally said Romney 52-47 and I may be shortchanging Mitt a little with that one, but I’ll stick with it for now.

Ta111 on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I’d bet that would be pretty close. I hope it’s more, just to keep the rioting down to a minimum. I wonder if the Justice Brothers and the Justice Dept. will do anything when Detroit and Chicago burn?

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM

I really hope so. I’m just worried about Ohio, Penn, Colorado, and Wisconsin. I don’t want to win the popular vote and lose the electoral.

Oil Can on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Wisconsin is probably not going to make it for Mitt. It will be close but I am seeing hundreds of Obama signs in my area. Stong Dem area which Walker lost but I hope it’s better for Mitt elsewhere here. Sucks to be me.

wi farmgirl on October 23, 2012 at 10:25 AM

So whose dress was more expensive Ann’s or Michelle’s? Isn’t that the most important take-away of the night? /s

IdrilofGondolin on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Wait a sec — Michelle was wearing a dress? I thought she wrapped herself up in a tablecloth.

natasha333 on October 23, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Fascinating action on Intrade:

Obama down to 57%.

But on this question:

Democratic nominee to win 280 or more Electoral College votes in 2012 Presidential Election

Obama is only at 51%.

* I see Intrade and an amusing diversion with little predictive ability other than the next 20 minutes, but it is fun to watch.

mitchellvii on October 23, 2012 at 10:26 AM

Obama’s strong and substantive FP performance will be a real factor for undecideds.
I wouldn’t bother looking at any polls ’til next week.
But I know you guys won’t be able to resist Rasmussen…

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 AM

I believe you thought the same the last debate…and was proven wrong, the needle moved for Romney up, and down for Obama…so you will give it another try, sorry pal, we get you and your cronies on here.

You try and try, but you just keep failing…and in case you didn’t notice, Mitt cleverly kept it on the economy, which is really what is on the people mind.

Mitt led the debate, controlled the debate…and Obama led from behind again.

But, Obama did get his personal attacks in…and we all know how women love it when a candidate gets personal, Obama fell into the trap of being petty.

And btw, how come no one mentioned Obama’s use of the pink bracelet, he wore that for naught…

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:26 AM

So when can Rasmussen expect a call from Eric Holder?

GarandFan on October 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM

Why do you think Rasmussen has been so “careful” to use samples as high as D+8 in his national polls?

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:27 AM

I remain much more confident than pollsters or campaign strategists in the overall intelligence of women – so I doubt Romney gained much here. The sad puppy face doesn’t have the appeal he might think.
Obama’s strong and substantive FP performance will be a real factor for undecideds.
I wouldn’t bother looking at any polls ’til next week.
But I know you guys won’t be able to resist Rasmussen…

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 AM

It wasn’t a “real factor for undecideds” in the PPP poll or the focus groups…in the former, more people went to Romney then went to Obama, even though they thought the latter won the debate.

You lefties just don’t get it. The fact the President had to go small and counter with cheap attack lines to please YOU says a lot about the position he finds himself in. After each of the last three debates, as both Biden and Obama resorted to condescension and pettiness, the Left crowed about their “wins”…don’t think undecideds view it the same way, or appreciate their performance as much as you do.

changer1701 on October 23, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Wait a sec — Michelle was wearing a dress? I thought she wrapped herself up in a tablecloth.

natasha333 on October 23, 2012 at 10:25 AM

I thought she wrapped herself up in a tablecloth disdain and contempt.

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:27 AM

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 AM

You sound as pompous and petulant as your president.

We know that these next two weeks will be a rough time for you, so why burden yourself by hanging out at a website where you’re not appreciated for your brilliance?

Seek out kindred spirits at dkos and Huffpo, you’ll be much happier there and so will we.

Now, here’s a box of Kleenex to take with you. Here’s looking at you…leaving.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Remember Morrissey’s Axiom on Politics and Dating? Desperation is not an aphrodisiac.

..now you tell me, Ed. I coulda used this advice 40 years ago at UCLA.

The War Planner on October 23, 2012 at 10:28 AM

changer1701 on October 23, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Exactly, Obama pandered to his base and the are lapping it up…Romney went for the undecided and the women, and is winning that.

So let the libs live it up, hey, Obama won the debate, but lost the election…at least they can have the best unemployed debater.

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 AM

chumpThreads on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

the most important debate was the first one by far.

the next 3 narrow dem wins.

however the problem for OBAMA was not winning or losing any of the debates.

it’s that the portrayal of Romney as an out of touch/callous rich guy was blown out of the water.

200 million dollars of negative ads negated by the debates

gerrym51 on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Also, there is a lot to digest from this debate, but the whole “I got Bin Laden and you wouldn’t have and a little girl whose daddy died on 9/11 thanked me for it” schtick was so used-car salesman like, it was pathetic.

Obama said Romney would have asked pokeestan’s perimission, but if I recall, Obama said much worse as a candidate, talking about “air raiding villages”. Interesting calculus as well, throwing Joe under the bus, when Joe was so happy to spike the football during his debate.

cep on October 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM

The fact that he is 50+ in both polls with obama at 46% is huge. I originally said Romney 52-47 and I may be shortchanging Mitt a little with that one, but I’ll stick with it for now.

Ta111 on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Never in the history of election is a candidate above 50% in October and loses the election…never…

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:32 AM

Moochelle is calling for quotes from movers.

bayview on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

..the way the Obama, OFA and D&C campaign finance management is going, they’ll probably only be able to rent a U-Hail.

The War Planner on October 23, 2012 at 10:33 AM

ITguy on October 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM
Resist We Much on October 23, 2012 at 10:16 AM

Yeah, wrong attribution. (Sigh)

suzeecue on October 23, 2012 at 10:33 AM

I am so proud of Mitt Romney! He’s been a “fixer” all his life…the Olympics, the state of Massachusetts, et al…He sees the big picture of how our country has been wrung out these past four years. He has the gumption and spirit to take on this massive project AND the Chicago Thug Machine…and he’s WINNING. God bless this man mightily!

StarLady on October 23, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Amen to that.

cheetah2 on October 23, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Never in the history of election is a candidate above 50% in October and loses the election…never…

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:32 AM

..but..Governor Rahm-nee! Governor Rahm-nee! Governor Rahm-nee! Governor Rahm-nee! What about OIHO? What about OIHO?

/

The War Planner on October 23, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Did anyone notice that Romney last night was just like Paul Ryan in his debate? He let his opponent mock, ridicule, interrupt, and disagree the whole night. He let his opponent score points on sheer aggressiveness and emphatic repetition. Meanwhile, he tried to stay calm and, basically, not lose.

It’s not the kind of debate performance I would like to see, but I suppose it serves his purposes. He overwhelmed Obama in the first debate, and left him sputtering in the last two. Overall, it’s hard to miss the fact that he won the debates in the only way that really mattered: people are much more likely to vote for him now. They always knew that Obama had real problems, but they were waiting for someone else to present himself as a better alternative.

tom on October 23, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Exactly, Obama pandered to his base and the are lapping it up…Romney went for the undecided and the women, and is winning that.

So let the libs live it up, hey, Obama won the debate, but lost the election…at least they can have the best unemployed debater.

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 AM

And Romney didn’t have an angry look on his face the whole time like Obama.

wi farmgirl on October 23, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Exactly, Obama pandered to his base and the are lapping it up…Romney went for the undecided and the women, and is winning that.

So let the libs live it up, hey, Obama won the debate, but lost the election…at least they can have the best unemployed debater.

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Yep. The fact he needs to pander to his base two weeks out is very telling.

changer1701 on October 23, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Binders and Big Bird and bayonets…oh my!

Hit the bricks, Obama.

CrustyB on October 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM

I am so proud of Mitt Romney! He’s been a “fixer” all his life…the Olympics, the state of Massachusetts, et al…He sees the big picture of how our country has been wrung out these past four years. He has the gumption and spirit to take on this massive project AND the Chicago Thug Machine…and he’s WINNING. God bless this man mightily!

Let’s not get carried away…he is a politician who is winning, that’s it, he is a politician, not your friend.

And by our grace, we will “hire” him to work for us…

right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM

I remain much more confident than pollsters or campaign strategists in the overall intelligence of women – so I doubt Romney gained much here. The sad puppy face doesn’t have the appeal he might think.
Obama’s strong and substantive FP performance will be a real factor for undecideds.
I wouldn’t bother looking at any polls ’til next week.
But I know you guys won’t be able to resist Rasmussen…

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Obama again became the not-so-cool Obama. Romney did what he needed to do. Obama needed a grand slam yet barely hit a single.

Bitter Clinger on October 23, 2012 at 10:38 AM

The President clearly was the better debater in the last two of three.

That’s a winning “debate season” in my book.

chumpThreads on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

The delusion is very strong with you. The welfare queens agitator did not win the debate season, not even close. The majority of voters concluded from these debates that there is only one man who is fit to be President and that is Romney… Regarding Obama a majority of them are very embarrassed that he is the President because he proved to them that he is the most incompetent man to ever be elected President but that is the natural results of a man who spent most of his political life agitating the parasite class in Chicago and his only talent is to read a speech from a teleprompter…

mnjg on October 23, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Exactly, Obama pandered to his base and the are lapping it up…Romney went for the undecided and the women, and is winning that.
So let the libs live it up, hey, Obama won the debate, but lost the election…at least they can have the best unemployed debater.
right2bright on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 AM

^Brilliantly put.

bluegill on October 23, 2012 at 10:39 AM

We know that these next two weeks will be a rough time for you, so why burden yourself by hanging out at a website where you’re not appreciated for your brilliance?

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Let’s just say I’m more intellectually curious than you.
And I’m confident enough to mingle with those who don’t agree with me.
You’re more of an ‘in-crowd’ guy.
To each their own…

I do prefer Obama to Romney.
You’d do well to understand that’s not the same as the blind love you find at Kos, or the rabid hatred you find at Breitbart.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

The delusion is very strong with you. The welfare queens agitator did not win the debate season, not even close. The majority of voters concluded from these debates that there is only one man who is fit to be President and that is Romney… Regarding Obama a majority of them are very embarrassed that he is the President because he proved to them that he is the most incompetent man to ever be elected President but that is the natural results of a man who spent most of his political life agitating the parasite class in Chicago and his only talent is to read a speech from a teleprompter…

mnjg on October 23, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Right on . . . bravo.

rplat on October 23, 2012 at 10:41 AM

What is this bs about Obamuh having the better perf last night–unless you’re awarding points for being the bigger jerka&&, which he clearly was. And stop freakin’ sayin’ Obamuh won on points if you’re not gonna define what those points are–cuz I honestly don’t know what that means. So just shut up about sniveling little undefined imaginary points cuz you feel you gotta give props to the sniveling snarky small-in-stature prezuhdunce. What buncha malarkey!

stukinIL4now on October 23, 2012 at 10:41 AM

After Obama is out of office, perhaps, he can get a job as the Captain of the Costa Concordia. After all, he knows all about “ships that go underwater.”

Resist We Much on October 23, 2012 at 10:41 AM

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Actually, you’re just here to be pompous and disrupt Conservative conversation. That’s a far cry from being “intellectually curious”.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 10:42 AM

I do prefer Obama to Romney.
You’d do well to understand that’s not the same as the blind love you find at Kos, or the rabid hatred you find at Breitbart.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Please share with us your reasons for supporting this man of proven incompetence.

rplat on October 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM

So, I have a related question: Is Romney receiving the daily briefings that most candidates for President are allowed access to in the days following their nomination?

Timothy S. Carlson on October 23, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Yes, he’s been receiving those briefings.

changer1701 on October 23, 2012 at 9:44 AM

..wouldn’t it be nice to see the comparative “attendance records” of the two candidates? I’ll wager Romney’s is at or near 100% and Obama’s is..er..STILL less than half that.

The War Planner on October 23, 2012 at 10:44 AM

the most important debate was the first one by far.

the next 3 narrow dem wins.

however the problem for OBAMA was not winning or losing any of the debates.

it’s that the portrayal of Romney as an out of touch/callous rich guy was blown out of the water.

200 million dollars of negative ads negated by the debates

gerrym51 on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Agree that the first debate was the most important one by far but I disagree that the last three debates are narrow wins for Obama/Biden… Those stupid instant polls showing a democrat win are even more meaningless than the biased media polls that we see daily… Also pundits opinions do not matter because a majority of voters do not follow what a pundit says…

In these debate the majority of voters have seen only one man who is fit and competent to be President and that is Mitt Romney.

Regarding Obama a majority of them are very embarrassed that he is the President because he proved to them that he is the most incompetent man to ever be elected President but that is the natural results of a man who spent most of his political life agitating the parasite class in Chicago and his only talent is to read a speech from a teleprompter…

mnjg on October 23, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Let’s just say I’m more intellectually curious than you.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

I do prefer Obama to Romney.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Cognitive Dissonance

ShadowsPawn on October 23, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Obama again became the not-so-cool Obama. Romney did what he needed to do. Obama needed a grand slam yet barely hit a single.

Bitter Clinger on October 23, 2012 at 10:38 AM

A grand slam would have been nice, but I don’t know that he needed that. A single beats a strike out.
If nothing else, most folks here to seem to agree Romney played it ‘safe’. I think you need to consider why he’s being cautious.
My answer would be that it’s all very much in play.
I don’t disagree with critiques of the ‘cool Obama’. I think he could have made that ‘bayonets & horses’ point without the one liners. But still, it was a good point. And Mitt’s ’1917 navy’ line wasn’t exactly undeserving of a slap back.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:46 AM

I remain much more confident than pollsters or campaign strategists in the overall intelligence of women – so I doubt Romney gained much here.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Why do you think all women think the same or do you think women that do not vote with their vajayjays are stupid?

Please tell this very highly educated woman how stupid I am for voting my wallet.

Also, please tell this woman why I should tell the government to keep their laws off of my body, but not out of my wallet, health insurance policy, doctor’s office, bank accounts, financial services contract, stock accounts, refrigerator, pantry, automobile, appliances, bathroom, medicine cabinet, office, etc?

Resist We Much on October 23, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Meanwhile, the DOW is plummeting. Down 240+ points.

sentinelrules on October 23, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Those still saying Obama won this debate are really off base. Forget about who scored the most points; that only matters in high school and college debate contests. You can only judge who won or lost based on what they needed to do and did or didn’t do.

Obama had one objective in this debate, to paint Mitt Romney as George Bush Redux, a scary neocon who will jump into a war in Iran and possibly one in Syria as well. That was probably his last shot at turning off women and independents from Romney. Romney completely flummoxed him by getting out front opposing military intervention in Syria and then by downplaying a military option in Iran. Romney also stayed away from Benghazi, which denied Obama an opportunity to slam him for “politicizing the death of our Ambassador.”

So Obama failed to do what he wanted and needed to do.

On the other hand, Romney needed to project strength, calm, and confidence. He needed to only point out subtle differences with Obama on foreign policy, because the polls do show that it is Obama’s strongest suit in this campaign. He needed to reassure women that he isn’t a hothead. He hoped to score some more points with Jewish voters on Israel. And he needed to close the debate if possible by coming home to his economic argument against Obama and for himself.

Romney succeeded in doing everything he needed to do.

Game, set, and match to Romney.

rockmom on October 23, 2012 at 10:47 AM

It is a relief that the debates are over. In an unfair environment (biased moderators and especially biased MSM)Romney more than held his own and defined Obama as a political tyro and not especially bright to boot.

What amazes me is that the man whose negligence caused the deaths of a US ambassador and 3 co-workers (and who criminally covered it up)and who has allowed Iran to be in a position to do to the Jewish people what Hitler could not quite accomplish-total extermination-was judged to be the “winner” of the foreign policy debate. Thank God “it’s the economy, stupid.”

MaiDee on October 23, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Let’s just say I’m more intellectually curious than you.
verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

If you are going out of your way to play a smug, unlikable, offputting liberal caricature character, then I have to say that you are succeeding marvelously. That is some excellent satire.

bluegill on October 23, 2012 at 10:48 AM

I do prefer Obama to Romney.
You’d do well to understand that’s not the same as the blind love you find at Kos, or the rabid hatred you find at Breitbart.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Oh you are so brilliant because you prefer a person who wants to actively destroy this country.

MobileVideoEngineer on October 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Meanwhile, the DOW is plummeting. Down 240+ points.

sentinelrules on October 23, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Very poor earnings results. There’s a lot of that going around…..

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM

The President clearly was the better debater in the last two of three.

That’s a winning “debate season” in my book.

chumpThreads on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Sure, if strutting noisy Bantam Hen is your role model for president.

Cindy Munford on October 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Actually, you’re just here to be pompous and disrupt Conservative conversation. That’s a far cry from being “intellectually curious”.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Whatever, KJ.
I wouldn’t dream of engaging in the folly that would be trying to change your perception of me.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM

..oh, and on the topic of bayonets,I have three words for The Crapsack™ POTUS: M7, M9, and OKC 3S.

The War Planner on October 23, 2012 at 10:50 AM

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Sport, read the thread. It’s not an opinion. It’s a consensus.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Those still saying Obama won this debate are really off base. Forget about who scored the most points; that only matters in high school and college debate contests. You can only judge who won or lost based on what they needed to do and did or didn’t do.

rockmom on October 23, 2012 at 10:47 AM

I’d like to know if he scored “points” what those points were. Even if this was a High School debate, what exactly were the points that Obama won? If folks are calling #2 and #3 a win, what was the score and how were the points won?

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Obama looked like his Dunce cap was obscuring his vision for most of the debate. He looked like he was panicked, trying to hard, and looking for any excuse to talk about Romney other than himself.

It will be a great day when that little man is no longer in a position of power.

akaniku on October 23, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Meanwhile, the DOW is plummeting. Down 240+ points.

sentinelrules on October 23, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Very poor earnings results. There’s a lot of that going around…..

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM

..yeah, but interesting to note that this was THE LAST REFUGE OF OBAMA’S PATHETIC BLEATINGS ON THE ECONOMY. He and his supporters would — albeit infrequently — tout that the market was up at unprecedented levels. If this tanks in the next two weeks, it’s curtains for this P.O.S.

The War Planner on October 23, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Resist We Much on October 23, 2012 at 10:46 AM

You’re missing my point.
I’m suggesting that women indeed are smart enough to decide who they’re voting for based on their own capable examination of a candidate’s record and proposals – and not as result of some pandering in a debate…be it by Romney or Obama.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Rasmussen’s polling over the last couple days must show an enormous break to Romney and/or he is moving away from the D+2 to D+4 bias the poll had for months.

Anyway, Rasmussen’s latest finding of Romney 50%, Obama 46% is very similar to nearly every other poll once they are normalized to a 2004/2010-style turnout: http://thecitizenpamphleteer.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/home-stretch-corrected-presidential-polls/

Bart DePalma on October 23, 2012 at 10:54 AM

From Rasmussen’s summary of today’s national tracking poll:

Romney attracts support from 89% of Republican voters. The president earns the vote from 82% of Democrats. Among those not affiliated with either major party, the GOP challenger leads by nine.

Romney leading Indies by 9 points is a good sign, in line with lots of other polls showing Romney leading Indies by between 5 and 15 points.

What could be crucial here is that Obama is getting the votes of “only” 82% of Democrats. The poll summary doesn’t say whether the other 18% are crossing over to Romney or just undecided, but if 18% of Democrats don’t bother voting, Obama won’t have the D+7 turnout advantage he had in 2008. If Romney can turn out the “base” almost as well as Obama and also win Indies, he can win the election.

Steve Z on October 23, 2012 at 10:57 AM

mnjg on October 23, 2012 at 10:44 AM

i actually think mitt won all 3. I worded it the way i did so that i would not come off as all knowing.

gerrym51 on October 23, 2012 at 11:00 AM

I’d like to know if he scored “points” what those points were. Even if this was a High School debate, what exactly were the points that Obama won? If folks are calling #2 and #3 a win, what was the score and how were the points won?

oldroy on October 23, 2012 at 10:52 AM

I’m just commenting on the conventional wisdom that Obama won #2 and #3 “on points.” I happen to think he didn’t win #2 on points, but he won overall because he did what he needed to do in that debate, i.e. show up and fight, and get all his attacks on Romney out on the table; while Romney held serve but failed to land the knockout punch. But this last debate was a huge and obvious win for Romney and loss for Obama, regardless of who won on points. Obama failed to do what he needed to do and Romney succeeded.

Paul Ryan won his debate by my “scoring” because he appeared as a plausible President and effectively defended and promoted Romney, which was what he needed to do; while Biden failed to make Ryan look too young and inexperienced for the job and did not sufficiently defend Obama.

I would add that both Obama and Biden failed utterly in painting Romney and Ryan as “too extreme.” Romney/Ryan claimed the political center in these debates overall, and that is also a win.

rockmom on October 23, 2012 at 11:01 AM

Please share with us your reasons for supporting this man of proven incompetence.

rplat on October 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Well obviously I don’t see his record as you do.
In a nutshell…I support Obama because I think Romney’s economic plan is cookie cutter trickle down b.s.
Though I don’t support the current positions Romney presents on a score of social issues, I don’t believe he’ll truly govern that way – he’s just campaigning that way (though not so much recently).
I think he’ll largely continue Obamacare, immigration reform, eventually support SSM (or not fight it), etc.
And on Foreign Policy, he’ll also continue Obama’s successful approach here.
So it’s economic policy for me.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM

This nation. Me

I caught that pathetic statement as well.

ted c on October 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM

So, I have a related question: Is Romney receiving the daily briefings that most candidates for President are allowed access to in the days following their nomination?

Timothy S. Carlson on October 23, 2012 at 9:35 AM

I heard on Fox News that one of Romney’s main advisors on foreign policy was John Bolton. If Romney wins the election, he should appoint Bolton as Secretary of State.

Steve Z on October 23, 2012 at 11:04 AM

I really hope so. I’m just worried about Ohio, Penn, Colorado, and Wisconsin. I don’t want to win the popular vote and lose the electoral.

Oil Can on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 AM

After the second question last night, I realized everything Romney was going to say was geared towards Ohio. That’s what he did.

His biggest holdback in OH is the neocon fear.

Every town and city has at least one road or street renamed after a fallen soldier.

Compact that with economic implosion, which has been going in OH longer than most of the country, and the state has been at a breaking point for years.

The first debate made him pragmatic, economically. It puts him in tune with Kasich’s policies, which are working, even though he gets little credit.

This time, he had to message “we may be at war, but I’ll do everything else possible before I send soldiers”.

That’s what he did, and it worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6URuvgL2CKA

Now, we have this little tidbit

The vice president is midway through a three-day tour of uber-battleground Ohio, and Obama’s team contends its best way of ensuring victory is a win there. The campaign says internal polling gives Obama a lead in the Midwestern battleground state, in large part because of the popularity of the president’s bailout of the auto industry.

But even if Obama loses Ohio, his campaign sees another pathway to the presidency by nailing New Hampshire, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nevada and Colorado.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iUcE9cU63gMdvcIOXIYGc1ICDIIw?docId=073280d3795f4e7d85fe440db1771692

budfox on October 23, 2012 at 11:09 AM

So it’s economic policy for me.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM

So in other words… you’re a moron.

MobileVideoEngineer on October 23, 2012 at 11:09 AM

I was out last night and I’ve watched half the debate that I recorded. My initial impression is that Obama continues to have that deer in headlight look, makes up answers that he thinks makes him sound brilliant (but don’t) and he’s disrespectful. For most Americans, the election is a serious matter. Obama acts as though the job for the next 4 years is already his. I am so looking forward to his concession speech on Nov. 6. I want to see him have to look humble for once.

COgirl on October 23, 2012 at 11:09 AM

So it’s economic policy for me.

verbaluce on October 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM

How you say that with a straight face is beyond me. Look at the condition we are in. Your guy’s policies put us here. You must be happy with the pathetic nature of the economy to want more of it.

Cookie cutter trickle down b.s. indeed…you know, because government directed economics and those shovel read jobs worked out so well for us.

I can understand Obama not accepting any of the responsibility for his actions, that is who he is. I guess one shouldn’t be surprised when his followers won’t hold him accountable either. Let me guess, you blame Bush?

ShadowsPawn on October 23, 2012 at 11:11 AM

It’s great watching Obama ‘win’ debates (and Biden, too!) and losing the job interview.

One of the guys on stage last night was an executive. He was closing a deal

The other was just wondering how he could score ‘points’ and yet still be losing the deal.

ajacksonian on October 23, 2012 at 11:11 AM

What price? Romney is in a strong position to be the next president…whether you like it or not.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 9:55 AM

I would prefer a more steady candidate, but as we near the end, I take romney position that he mostly agrees with Obama foreign policy as his real position. nothing wrong here, because both obama and romney seem to be middle way between neocon position and the libertarian foreign policy that I would prefer.

what left me a bit perplexed is how little criticism romney is getting for for his embrace of obama positions. If this was the primaries, he would be crucified but now, so close to election day, anything romney says will be defended no matter all the outrage that was common the last for years.
I just get disappointed with partisan hypocrisy(also dems) every election.

nathor on October 23, 2012 at 11:12 AM

nathor on October 23, 2012 at 11:12 AM

You’re just upset that Dr. Paul didn’t get it.

kingsjester on October 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Would love to be a fly on the wall when, on November 5th, Axelrod looks at the pres and says, “it doesn’t look good Mr. President”

joepub on October 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Now, we have this little tidbit

The vice president is midway through a three-day tour of uber-battleground Ohio, and Obama’s team contends its best way of ensuring victory is a win there. The campaign says internal polling gives Obama a lead in the Midwestern battleground state, in large part because of the popularity of the president’s bailout of the auto industry.

But even if Obama loses Ohio, his campaign sees another pathway to the presidency by nailing New Hampshire, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nevada and Colorado.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iUcE9cU63gMdvcIOXIYGc1ICDIIw?docId=073280d3795f4e7d85fe440db1771692

budfox on October 23, 2012 at 11:09 AM

I’m not saying this to you budfox, this is just a reaction to what you posted.

So it’s the campaign that is pushing that stupid meme? Seriously? No wonder people who know nothing at all about Ohio keep bringing this up. The auto bailout did absolutely nothing for Ohio, stop saying that. Most of Ohio’s auto industry jobs are either directly or indirectly because of Honda, not Government Motors. I grew up in Marysville Ohio, I think I know a little more than the moronic people in the campaign that only go to Ohio when they need votes.

MobileVideoEngineer on October 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4