Bayonets, horses, and ships, oh my
posted at 9:19 pm on October 23, 2012 by J.E. Dyer
There are so many ways to criticize President Obama’s now-infamous “horses and bayonets” comment from last night’s foreign policy debate that one hardly knows where to start. The snarky attitude alone is worth a column. What is Obama, a blog troll? If he has a case to make about having a smaller Navy, he could surely have made it without being snide, specious, and condescending.
At any rate, there are the obvious points, such as the fact that the US military still uses bayonets. Some of the first U.S. military and intelligence personnel into Afghanistan operated in the prohibitive mountainous terrain on horseback. Horse cavalry may be a thing of the (recent) past for classic battlefield engagements, but terrain and local living patterns are dictatorial when it comes to military operations. For some applications, you need a horse.
The key question implied in all this is what kind of operation you envision, as you consider which military forces to develop and buy. (In August 2011, no one envisioned the US military needing horses for special operations in Afghanistan.)
The president’s statements about our inventory of naval combat ships imply much the same question. Obama’s statement suggests that aircraft carriers and submarines (“ships that go underwater”) have made the surface combatant – the cruiser, destroyer, and frigate – less necessary. If we have only as many of them as we had in 1916, that’s not a problem, in Obama’s formulation, because technology changes.
US Policy
But what is it we are trying to do with these naval forces? Mitt Romney’s approach is to assume that we intend to exercise control of our ocean bastions – the Atlantic and Pacific – and effectively resume our position as the primary naval influence on the world’s strategic chokepoints: the approaches to Central America; the maritime space of Northwestern Europe; the Mediterranean; the chokepoint-belt from the Suez Canal to the Strait of Hormuz; and the Strait of Malacca and South China Sea. Being well briefed, Romney no doubt has in mind as well the increasingly maritime confrontation space of the Arctic, where Russia and Canada are competing, but the US – with our own Arctic claims – has in recent years been passive.
Romney thus sees the Navy as a core element of our enduring strategic posture. For national defense and for the protection of trade, the United States has from the beginning sought to operate in freedom on the seas, and, where necessary, to exercise control of them. We are a maritime nation, with extremely long, shipping-friendly coastlines in the temperate zone and an unprecedented control of the world’s most traveled oceans, the Atlantic and Pacific.
We have also chosen, since our irruption on the world geopolitical stage a century or so ago, to project power abroad as much as possible through expeditionary operations and offshore influence. Indeed, seeking the most effective balance between stand-off approaches, temporary incursions, and boots-on-the-ground combat and occupation has been a perennial tension in our national politics and our concepts of war throughout the life of our Republic. We have always naturally favored offshore influence and quick-resolution campaigns, from which we can extricate ourselves just as quickly.
The character of these preferences and military problems has changed with the passage of time – but in comparison to the United States in 1916, they are all bigger today, as well as faster-moving and more likely to be our problem than, say, Great Britain’s.
In the modern world, America’s favored posture requires the sea services: the Navy and Marine Corps. It also requires the Air Force, in virtually any theater where we might operate. That said, in the early days of Operation Enduring Freedom, the Navy was able to put strike-fighters into Afghanistan from carriers in the Arabian Sea, while the Air Force didn’t have a base close enough to get strike-fighters into the fight at the time. That situation is rare, and was soon corrected, but it does highlight the point that the Navy can get tactical assets in, even where we have no bases close to the tactical battlespace.
For completeness, we should note that in addition to its greater depth of air assets, the Air Force can get long-range bombers into a fight anywhere from the continental United States. For full effectiveness, that capability does depend on the ability to recover and refuel abroad (e.g., in Guam, Diego Garcia, the UK). But the B-2 or B-52 strategic bomber brings a different order of combat power to a fight. The differing capabilities of the Navy and Air Force are complementary, for the most part, rather than being in competition.
As silly, parochial, and partisan as the infighting gets over defense planning and procurement, there is a reason why we have the forces we have, and it maps back to the basic, enduring strategy of the United States. We intend to control the seas that directly affect us and deter hostile control over the world’s other key chokepoints. And to do that, we need surface combatants.
What Obama would know if he paid attention to how our armed forces work
That reality of sea control hasn’t changed since the ancient Romans locked down the Mediterranean, and it’s not clear that it ever will. As an environment for power and confrontation, the sea is sui generis. Modern threats from the air and under the sea have not made the surface combatant obsolete; they have merely driven it to adapt.
And the surface combatant has adapted, transformed from a platform that was largely about bringing guns to a fight into a platform whose effective purpose is to multitask 100% of the time. The US cruiser or destroyer can fire Tomahawk missiles hundreds of miles inland; it can deploy helicopters for a variety of missions; it can use guns large and small, and anti-ship missiles, against other surface ships; it can hunt submarines (if not as effectively as US Naval forces did during the Cold War), and attack them if it identifies them; and it can manage maritime air space for any combat purpose and shoot down enemy aircraft and missiles.
The surface combatant creates an envelope of multi-use combat power that moves around with it and acts variously as reassurance or a deterrent. There is a sense in which the aircraft carrier does that too, but from the maritime power perspective, the carrier doesn’t do all the things the surface combatant does – and that means it requires a protection provided by the surface combatant. If you want survivable, effective carriers, you need escorts.
Today’s carrier doesn’t have any antisubmarine warfare capability, nor can it reliably defend itself against a barrage of enemy missiles. Its close-in defenses are not the equal of the Aegis combatant’s anti-air or anti-missile capabilities. Nor can the carrier launch an anti-ship or Tomahawk cruise missile. The carrier is there to launch and recover aircraft. Its power envelope is singular; the surface combatant’s is multifaceted. The carrier’s air wing has a key role in maritime combat, but that role – like the Air Force’s – is complementary; it can’t replace the surface combatant, which remains the basic unit of naval power.
The submarine is a tremendously capable platform – in a face-off between a US submarine and a surface combatant I’d back the submarine every day of the week – but the sub’s role is also limited. In a geopolitical world in which “gray hulls” often exert their most proximate influence through sheer, obvious presence, the submarine’s purpose is to be invisible. The fear of a sub you can’t find is a more powerful motivator than the sight of a sub you can see, which is the opposite of the surface combatant’s effect. The attack submarine can collect intelligence, launch Tomahawk missiles, and hunt other submarines – and is by far the most effective anti-ship platform known to man. What it doesn’t do is integrate influence in all the dimensions of naval warfare – subsurface, surface, air, space, the littoral interface, geopolitics, and suasion – as the surface combatant does.
If you want to control the seas, you still need surface combatants. And since the seas are the pathway to most of what we do outside our borders, there is no such situation as one in which we will only need to do what aircraft carriers do, or only what submarines do, or only what minesweepers or oilers or merchant ships do. If we do not control the seas, we do not control our security conditions or our strategic options.
Numbers and priorities
How many surface combatants do we need? Romney proposes a number – a total of 328 ships (the current total is 284), of which surface combatants would represent about 130 – and backs it up with reasoning about a strategic purpose.
Obama’s approach has been budgetary. Under the constraints of the defense budget reductions proposed by Obama – $487 billion through 2022 – the Navy proposed decommissioning 11 ships in 2013, including four Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers whose service life has another 10-15 years left. Three additional cruisers with more than a decade of service life remaining are to be decommissioned in 2014. As noted at the Navy-oriented Information Dissemination blog, when the proposed cuts were first outlined in late 2011, the decommissioning plan will take out of service cruisers that can be upgraded with the ballistic missile defense (BMD) package – now a core capability for the Navy – while keeping five cruisers that cannot receive the BMD upgrade.
Other ships to be decommissioned include two Whidbey Island-class dock landing ships, or LSDs, which transport the Marines and support their amphibious operations. With the planned decommissioning of USS Peleliu, a Tarawa-class amphibious assault ship – although the date is now pending – the loss in capability would amount to the loss of an amphibious ready group, the combat formation in which a Marine Expeditionary Unit deploys. The loss of Peleliu, a “big deck,” which anchors an amphibious group, would drop the number of big decks from nine to eight.
Congress has moved to rescue the four cruisers proposed for decommissioning next year – and has also (see last link) stepped in to ensure the full funding of aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt’s nuclear-plant refueling overhaul. Theodore Roosevelt has about 8 months left in the 3.5-year overhaul, but the lack of a federal budget in the last three years has jeopardized her funding. With the decommissioning of USS Enterprise in 2013, and USS Abraham Lincoln’s scheduled entry into a refueling overhaul in December, the combat-ready carrier force will be down to eight in a few weeks.
In the end, the difference between Romney’s approach and Obama’s isn’t a difference between buying a 328-ship force and having no Navy at all. It never is; the difference is always between one policy and another. Obama’s policy is to cut defense spending, even when that leads to the decommissioning of some of our best ships. Yet in 2010, the Navy could only fulfill 53% of the requirements for presence and missions levied by the combatant commanders (e.g., CENTCOM, PACOM). Cutting this Navy will reduce further its ability to fill warfighter requirements.
Given the constraints of Obama’s budgetary priorities, DOD envisions eventually sustaining a Navy whose size averages 298 ships through 2042. Romney has articulated a national-security policy that emphasizes building faster and having a larger Navy, one that can better meet the requirements of US policy and the combatant commanders for naval power. Obama has used sophomoric sarcasm to imply that Romney’s approach is ignorant and outdated. That pretty much sums up the choice the voters have between them.
J.E. Dyer’s articles have appeared at The Green Room, Commentary’s “contentions,” Patheos, The Weekly Standard online, and her own blog, The Optimistic Conservative.
This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.
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The foxes are guarding the fox house. I don’t think there are any hens left.
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM
When did the IRS hire Jerry Lundergaard from Fargo?
Terp Mole on May 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM
shawked
phatfawzi on May 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM
It explains why the new acting commissioner was coincidentally promoted a few days before: he was their fall guy.
blammm on May 17, 2013 at 12:40 PM
This is NOT a good or decent person.
Jabberwock on May 17, 2013 at 12:41 PM
Is Miller a tax cheat also?
docflash on May 17, 2013 at 12:42 PM
Wait… If they staged it they knew the internal report and decided to damage control it…
That had to come from above and the one person who had the lost at stake said he didn’t know about it because the report wasn’t released yet…
Skywise on May 17, 2013 at 12:43 PM
so if i get this right? the department that makes sure were all honest LIED? OK i get it. Just wanted to make sure.
phatfawzi on May 17, 2013 at 12:43 PM
“Targeting, Congressman Brady, is what right wing whackos like Sarah Palin does, with pictures of targets and all, and we didn’t use any pictures.”
TXUS on May 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Great reference. I’ll take it farther: Government has arranged to kidnap its own “wife”- and taxpayers are father-in-law Wade, who’s expected to come up with the ransom money.
Bat Chain Puller on May 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Horrible Customer Service
Bwahahahahahahaha
TAKE’n from a man’s labor … no different from slavery..
tooo bad them slave owners n da south didn’t practice “good customer service”
roflmmfao
donabernathy on May 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM
These people (liberals in charge) have no conscience. They believe government is the answer, and therefore only have to answer to themselves. It’s all a big party, complete with hats and hooters.
kirkill on May 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM
Man it is hard to not go on a profanity laced rant in these comments.
CycloneCDB on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Every American citizen should watch this hearing to see who will be in charge of their most personal medical information…!!!!!!!!!!!!
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
It’s a pipe dream, but Congress should reciprocate the contempt the IRS commissioner showed Congress today and completely defund the entire IRS organization! That would hopefully get their attention…
geojed on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Is the government throttling our comments here at HA…? Slow down…!
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Taxpayers aren’t the ‘customers’ of the IRS. They are the EMPLOYERS of the IRS.
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 12:48 PM
This guy is really restoring my faith in big government!
/sarc
I can’t wait to find out what “bad customer service” looks like under ObamaCare.
gwelf on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
So your faking this from top to bottom, and we’re supposed to trust you to be completely honest and forthright from now on?
On a sidenote, except for a few brief appearances by libfree to yap about a black church being burned down in 1802, this week has been low-troll. Curious.
Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Can’t wait.
Who’s The Racist? The Most Racist Countries In The World And The Answers Will Surprise Only The Race-Mongers
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Is everyone testifying about the IRS being put under oath?
slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
WHAT ‘HONESTY’ AND ‘CREDIBILITY’?
GarandFan on May 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM
Rep Mike Kelly just finished up…..the gallery erupted in applause.
CoffeeLover on May 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM
No retirement – jail. No pension, no healthcare plan, just fines and imprisonment. For a *shitload* of IRS people, damnit.
Midas on May 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Democrats’ solution: We should outsource this to phone operators in Mexico. And any phone operator and every remote family member can have U.S. citizenship.
BuckeyeSam on May 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
In a just world this guy would be led from the hearing in handcuffs…
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
The House GOP, if they had any balls at all (yeah, I know) need to do a few things immediately.
Voting to repeal ObamaCare is fun and all, but we know it goes nowhere in the Senate (at least for now).
DEFUND it. Starve the beast.
And we’d better start having some serious discussions about a total revamping of the tax code- eliminate the income tax, and start de-funding the IRS while you’re at it.
Enough already.
ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on May 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM
This.
Let’s see how many of them howl and scream their way to the top of the problem when faced with real punishment.
VibrioCocci on May 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM
The Conservative customer is always WRONG …
- IRS motto
ShainS on May 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM
The Tea Party weren’t “Targeted”.
They were just zeroed in on for IRS harassment.
portlandon on May 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM
I don’t know if it’s the fact that I grew up hearing stories from my grandparents about the communist Russia that they escaped as German Russians, but today’s hearings brought tears to my eyes. I can’t believe this is my country and the country my grandparents were so proud to become citizens of and my father fought for in WWII. Please, someone tell me we can be saved.
lea on May 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM
Even though it’s risible in the context, I’d give the IRS Commish a break on “horrible customer service.” Given the nature of all large organizations — with their mission statements and accompanying objectives to service “customers” and other stakeholders — that’s much how IRS leadership undoubtedly sees it.
But sadly, it just shows how out of touch managers in large organizations can be.
bobs1196 on May 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM
yeah, but what a fire it was!
I think sesquapredictable mentioned something about being out of pickled baby’s feet.
kirkill on May 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM
These poor IRS people are just doing the jobs that “normal” Americans won’t do.
kirkill on May 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Not mentioned here is this is the fellow Hillary brought in to arrange for the IRS audits of the Clinton women and enemies. Remember? And here he was, back at the IRS and that did not raise suspicion?
pat on May 17, 2013 at 1:05 PM
This charlatan was promised his great pension, and all the bennies, in exchange for all the lies.
How does any sane person believe a single word from these thugs?
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:06 PM
I missed that one. I remember something about shrubbery and reading up on Korean pickled cabbages, though.
rogerb on May 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM
>>Customer service
Please don’t
tazeaudit me brobbordwell on May 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM
“I want to give unelected bureaucrats like Steve Miller more power and more authority over my life, and especially my children’s lives! Big Government FTW!” -Average Dem voter
visions on May 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM
I’d have to check my notes – Miller
You have notes on that?
Ummm…No – Miller
You just said you have notes on that meeting…Now you’re saying you don’t have notes?
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:08 PM
1. In re-ed
2. Intoxicated from all the crap
3. Working harder…’cause sugah daddy’s in trouble
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM
Please detail the contents of your prayers – IRS
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:10 PM
Carnac the magnificent holds the envelope to his head.
“How did the man working on his rain gutter fall down?”
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM
It’s Rush Limbaugh’s Fault
Democratic Caucus & Il Duce’s motto
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM
It’s mealy-mouthed bureaucrats like this that make me wish I was serving on this committee. It would give me perverse pleasure to reduce this guy to tears with the worst dressing-down he’s ever gotten.
CurtZHP on May 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM
IRS…Your Shadow Government at Work
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:13 PM
Carnac the Magnificent holds the envelope to his head.
“When should Obama resign?”
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM
PLEASE make Kelly’s statements and applause available, HA !
Didn’t record it, and hubby needs to see/hear it !!!
pambi on May 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM
Having dealt with the IRS about back taxes, I can affirm that it does indeed have horrible customer services. You will never get the same answer from different phone reps about the same question. You often get contradictory answers, in fact. But each time they’ll insist the current answer is Gospel truth.
I remember I had a payment agreement setup that I was running late on. “Submit payment by X date or the agreement will be canceled,” they said. Now, it costs over $100 to set one of those things up (don’t ask me why) so I really didn’t want to have to do it again. So I went online and submitted my payment before X date. However, it didn’t post to their system until after X date. They said the agreement was canceled.
“No,” I said, “As you can see I submitted the payment on time. There shouldn’t be a new agreement.”
“The system canceled your agreement, so you need a new one,” they replied.
“But I paid on time. I paid before the deadline. I shouldn’t have to do this.”
And on and on it went for weeks. Finally, they re-instituted the original agreement. But, my God… I almost feel bad for the people working there. It’s like critical thought has been beaten out of them. That or the IRS simply hires people who don’t think.
Could be the latter…
selderane on May 17, 2013 at 1:15 PM
This is much worse than Watergate as potentially millions of voters were denied by the IRS the truth about this administration.
bucknut on May 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM
pat
at 1:05
Do you have where you got the info that Miller did a audits of Clinton women for Hillbeast.
If so there is a possible this is the Clintons depth charge they let go on Obama, after they figured Obama was going to blame her for Benzazie…..
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM
So…ummm…
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-irs-deliberately-chose-not-fess-scandal-election_724711.html
I’m going to say it again. Shut. It. Down.
NOW.
Chris of Rights on May 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM
When Obama prances around the country shouting to businesses…You didn’t build that…
It’s not so strange.
Miller and likely most of the IRS crew are leftists.
The Dept. of Treasury has their own Union…and they contribute mostly to the DNC and democrats…
In 2012 Union membership gave $1,000 to republicans and over $100,000 to democrats.
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM
“Fundamentally change America”…we’re going to have to take apart this government one Fascist/Socialist/Commie at at time.
It will take years to overcome the effect Dear Leader has had on our country and its media.
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Yes, but it requires speaking out when you least want to and be willing to endure the consequences of speaking out.
darwin on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM
I sense Jarrett’s fingerprints in this mess. Lerner has to go, and Sarch Hall Ingram needs to be re-assigned or fired. Will not stand letting her oversee the Obamacare agenda. Cannot be trusted.
Amazingoly on May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Well the IRS just ought to update their phone system to do the following:
If you are a member of a conservative group, Press 1.
If you are a associated with a Jewish group, Press 2.
If you plan to protest Planned Parenthood, Press 3.
If you plan to oppose Green Energy, Press 4.
If you plan to protest Obamacare, Press 5.
And the recording upon pressing those options simply ought to state, you are now being transferred to Homeland Security. I mean the IRS leaders talk about poor customer service and the reason they targeted conservative groups was to be more efficient. I mean, lets provide some solutions here and cut out the middle man. /
rsherwd65 on May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM
The concept that citizens are the “customers” of the IRS is strange. The IRS is not a business with customers.
Is there any business in the private sector that could jail you and seize your private property for not using their services and giving them money?
visions on May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Is Congress permitted to Waterboard witnesses to get a truthful answer to the question asked?
meci on May 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM
A customer is someone who voluntarily comes to you for a mutual exchange of good or valuable consideration. The IRS seizes property at the point of a gun. I’m not your damn customer, pal, and I want you to be a federal prisoner.
RadClown on May 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM
Really, the “customer service” term says all you need to know.
We really and truly have lost the concept of government of and by the people. I totally agree with shutting it down. This is insane.
ORconservative on May 17, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Time for decimination of the IRS (yes, in the military sense)
One out of ten employees from the division are fired at random. Only those that come clean will be spared.
blammm on May 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM
You want to know how deeply the IRS lies? They send people to prison who figure out that filing tax returns are completely voluntary according to Treasury Department regulations and the IRS Manual. In fact, the IRS does more than lie. They ruin honest peoples’ lives. THAT’s what they do. The good news: if you know how to fight ‘em, they back off. Trust me.
HiJack on May 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM
Like when Sarah Palin talked about some House Democrats “targeted” for defeat.
But unlike Sarah Palin, whose political opinions are well-known, the IRS is supposed to be a politically neutral agency which collects taxes according to the laws voted by Congress.
Since the Tea Party, Patriot, and other conservative groups supported Republicans over Democrats, weren’t they “targeted” in the Sarah Palin sense?
Customer service? A customer is a person who buys something of value from a seller. What has the IRS ever sold to us for our taxes? If the IRS wasn’t a government agency with the power to collect taxes, no one would buy anything from the IRS!!!
This is not “horrible customer service”. This is coercive use of government power for political purposes.
Exit question for Steven Miller: Who told you and the IRS to do this?
Steve Z on May 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM
OK,
So, this Miller was the goong the Clintons sent to audit Judical Watch back in the 1980′s.
So, I smell revenge on Obama on this by the Clintons.
If true, this would be huge imnsho.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM
Gotta wonder: was Jim Crow just a matter of horrible customer service?
matt curtis on May 17, 2013 at 1:33 PM
dictatorship
secret police
state controlled media
and more
who the hell will stand up for The United States?
losarkos on May 17, 2013 at 1:34 PM
What a day for HA to be broken…
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 1:34 PM
Is it still America?
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM
Washington Examiner May 14, 2013 by Paul Bedard
Deja vu: IRS boss of Tea Party probes targeted anti-Clinton groups in 1990′s..
connections
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:38 PM
This is the Orwellian Newspeak of the Obama Administration. Like taxpayer subsidies to the Solyndras and Fisker Karmas of the world are “investments” in clean, green energy. With a rate of return of negative 100%.
If we the “customers” of the IRS are the coerced “investors” in Solyndra et al. and Obama’s wonderful windmills and choo-choo trains, WE DEMAND OUR DIVIDENDS!!! NOW!!!
Steve Z on May 17, 2013 at 1:43 PM
I guess it depends on our definition of “America”, but as far as I’m concerned it hasn’t been America for a long…long…time.
HiJack on May 17, 2013 at 1:43 PM
So who was the plant at the ABA conference, that asked Lerner about targeting certain groups?
Was this a member of the media – willing to play along? Or some political hack, that just slipped in to ask the question?
Hill60 on May 17, 2013 at 1:50 PM
This – make it go around, a million times over.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM
This might sound familiar to you: Back in the USSR
What we have now discovered about Barack Obama and Eric Holder’s America, if we didn’t already know it, is that any belief in a benign and decent government in this country is absolute horseshit. Liberalism has been revealed as a fascist joke.
slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 2:19 PM
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-boss-of-tea-party-probes-targeted-anti-clinton-group-in-1990s/article/2529533
I asked FNC to check it out since the hearning didn’t address it.
amr on May 17, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Lighter moment???!!! Yous gotta be kidding me. False analogy.
CUSTOMERS, in this case, do not have a choice of not patronizing their provided service.
Sir Napsalot on May 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM
I’ve been a government employee before. This is a failure of management. Rank-and-file IRS agents know exactly what they’re supposed to do and not supposed to do. They would not have done this without directives, I don’t care what the numbers say about party affiliation. This rot goes deep.
alwaysfiredup on May 17, 2013 at 2:51 PM
NYT: Official Says Treasury Dept. Knew of I.R.S. Inquiry in 2012
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 3:19 PM
Every time I see a photo of Steve Miller I always think about this episode form the Three Stooges (hint: tarantula)
OxyCon on May 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM
You know who else had bad customer service?
Kermit Gosnell.
myiq2xu on May 17, 2013 at 4:41 PM
Tea Party
Just thought I would use fowl words on the internet….
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM
More “horrible customer service” from Democrats.
Random Numbers (Brian Epps) on May 18, 2013 at 1:10 AM