New poll shows millenials not as Hopenchangy as in 2008

posted at 3:56 pm on October 18, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

In 2008, young voters flocked to the polls to vote for Barack Obama in their third-best turnout since 1972, the first year that 18-year-olds could vote.  In 2012, four years wiser, many of them won’t be back, according to a new survey from Harvard Institute of Politics.  Enthusiasm has fallen by double digits in the past four years, and many of them are now disillusioned about politics:

The Harvard Institute of Politics’ national survey of 18- to 29-year-olds, released on Wednesday, found that while likely young voters favor Obama by a 19-point margin—55 percent to Republican nominee Mitt Romney’s 36 percent—only 48 percent say that they definitely plan to vote next month.

On every issue, from the economy to immigration to health care to foreign affairs, young voters said they trust the president more than Romney. Nonetheless, the Romney supporters appear to be more enthusiastic, with 66 percent who support the former Massachusetts governor saying they will definitely vote, compared to 55 percent of Obama backers.

They’re not turning conseervative, though.  They’re just turning into cynics:

The poll results point to disappointment, not necessarily in Obama, but in the political system as a whole. Sixty-two percent said that Obama inherited circumstances too big and too complex to be remedied in one term, while only 33 percent said that the president has failed.

Meanwhile, almost four in 10 millennials said that it doesn’t matter who is elected because Washington is broken. A quarter of them said that neither candidate represents their views, and almost three-quarters admitted to not being politically active.

The kicker?  This survey took place between September 19th and October 3rd, with 2,123 adults between 18-29 years of age.  That ended the day before Barack Obama’s debate flop on October 4th.  It’s doubtful that they saw anything in that debate that would have shaken them from their previous lack of engagement; it’s more likely that more of them have checked out of the process since.

It’s not as though the Obama campaign is giving them any reason to be sticking around, anyway.  What has been the big messaging coming from Team Obama since the end of that survey on October 3rd?  Big Bird, binders, and dirty dishes.  I pointed this out last night on Twitter to Ace:

One man once told the nation that when a politician no longer had any good ideas left, he’d make elections about fear and irrelevancies.  Who was that again?

Who knew Obama was outlining his 2012 campaign strategy?  Small wonder that the people Obama encouraged with this talk in 2008 have become entirely disillusioned four years later.

Update: Bill Whittle explained this phenomenon last week in his latest firewall, “Bewitched!”

The thrill is gone … and so is the glamour.


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Oh noz!!!

Gunlock Bill on October 18, 2012 at 3:58 PM

That’ll completely change once this binders meme really takes hold. That’s gold. /

changer1701 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

OT BREAKING: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

andy85719 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Susquehanna: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45%.

Cross your fingers folks!!

WolvenOne on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

BOOM: Romney up 4 per Susquehana.

wargamer6 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Drudge has Romney up in EC for first time.

SparkPlug on October 18, 2012 at 4:02 PM

Mope and Blame 2012.

Flange on October 18, 2012 at 4:02 PM

BOOM: Romney up 4 per Susquehana.

wargamer6 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

So now team hopey change has to cheat in Pennsylvania AND Ohio. That’s gonna complicate things.

Rational Thought on October 18, 2012 at 4:03 PM

OT BREAKING: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

andy85719 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Got a link? This almost seems too good to be true.

Doomberg on October 18, 2012 at 4:03 PM

Children growing up.

RedNewEnglander on October 18, 2012 at 4:03 PM

The Great Divider !

FlatFoot on October 18, 2012 at 4:04 PM

BOOM: Romney up 4 per Susquehana.

wargamer6 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

That poll just proves Obama will win because he’s umm. R+ sample erp. Old. North Carolina Carolina… gah..

I got nothin’

/i’m gummy so poke me

Gingotts on October 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM

New poll shows millenials not as Hopenchangy as in 2008

Hmmm, I wonder if them being an average of $26,600.00 in debt when they graduate has anything to do with this… BWAHAHAHAH….

Candy Crowley graduates from the Joesph Goebbels school of Journalism.

SWalker on October 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM

My son turned 18 this year so this will be his first opportunity to vote and he’s looking forward to it. We live near Seattle so pretty deep blue territory here. I don’t go out of my way to try to influence his political views…but he knows more or less where I stand. During the debate the other night he came in while I was watching…and he was looking at his phone giggling. I asked him what was up and he said that he was following his friends twittering about the debate. The snark about Obama’s performance was thick…and clever. Perhaps there IS hope for this generation. Heh.

dont taze me bro on October 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM

They’re not turning conseervative, though. They’re just turning into cynics:

Good. “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” was right, at least for politicians.

Rocks on October 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Romney +4 in Pennsylvania — Susquehanna (details to come)

Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

http://battlegroundwatch.com/2012/10/18/romney-4-in-pennsylvania-susquehanna-details-to-come/

sentinelrules on October 18, 2012 at 4:06 PM

A quarter of them said that neither candidate represents their views, and almost three-quarters admitted to not being politically active.

If they’re not politically active, are politicians supposed to use Vulcan mind melds to find out what their views are?

BobMbx on October 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM

OT BREAKING: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

andy85719 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Expect the Dems to turn to pure panic mode as Obama continues his freefall in the polls. Everything including the kitchen sink will be thrown at Rommey, but to no avail.

Norwegian on October 18, 2012 at 4:08 PM

The prospect of one’s hanging selling apples and pencils clears the mind wonderfully.”

—– Samuel Johnson

viking01 on October 18, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Hope the parents of millenials have big basements….that’s where their kids will be raising their grand-kids.

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Poll tweet was leaked too early, taken off Twitter.

andy85719 on October 18, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Sixty-two percent said that Obama inherited circumstances too big and too complex to be remedied in one term, while only 33 percent said that the president has failed.

Trust me, 62%, Obama has failed.

OT BREAKING: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

andy85719 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Performances? The second Romney-Obama debate was 16 October 2012. Good news to be sure, but it’s picking up only Debate 1 and the Ryan-Biden debate.

BuckeyeSam on October 18, 2012 at 4:09 PM

OT BREAKING: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

andy85719 on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

They pulled the tweet, so they may have mixed it up.

changer1701 on October 18, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Polls: Romney grabs leads in Ohio and Colorado

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/260961-polls-romney-grabs-leads-in-ohio-and-colorado

Conservative4ev on October 18, 2012 at 4:09 PM

i know this is o/t….but can crossroads Please run this ad on the tee vee?????

i know it is not nice to call our CinC a lying pos…but, hey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=znVqyfxfbRQ

r keller on October 18, 2012 at 4:11 PM

dont taze me bro on October 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM

If he’s working, go over one of his paystubs with him–the withholding in particular.

Son: “Hey, who are these guys FIT, SIT, and FICA? And why are they taking my money?”

BuckeyeSam on October 18, 2012 at 4:12 PM

At this rate, we might be safe calling Mitt, President Romney by next Wednesday.

This is going to be a landslide, and hopefully depressed Dem trunout leads to 55 seats in the Senate.

milcus on October 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Speaking of millenials, from our good friends over at Revealing Politics, Obama event goers on Benghazi: What?!?

Fallon on October 18, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Here’s all the info from Twitter on the polling. Read from the bottom up.

NumbersMuncher ‏@NumbersMuncher

@DrewMTips @StarChamberMaid @BrianFaughnan @jimgeraghty Well that was a fun few minutes, wasn’t it?
View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
6m NumbersMuncher ‏@NumbersMuncher

(In reply to AoS asking for the link)
@AceofSpadesHQ Not yet– I think they were teasing the toplines. I’ll send it as soon as I see it…
View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
7m NumbersMuncher ‏@NumbersMuncher

14m NumbersMuncher ‏@NumbersMuncher
Susquehanna might be more favorable to Romney in PA, but last poll was O+2 immediately after the first debate. Now its R+4… 49-45…
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

16m NumbersMuncher ‏@NumbersMuncher
Tear down this blue wall! Susquehanna: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45%.

Gingotts on October 18, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Hip hip hooray for Bill Whittle…. He totally nailed it…

SWalker on October 18, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Picture caption contest is on:

Big Turd with Big Bird

Schadenfreude on October 18, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Unfortunately, despite Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted’s best efforts, we had a brief overlap when folks could both (a) register to vote and (b) vote early.

On the last such day, the President staged an event at Ohio State. They had an attractive concert and had buses available to schlep students the 3 or 4 miles to the early voting center. Some 15,000 kids reportedly attended the event. I’d guess a thousand or more may have registered and voted.

EconomicNeocon on October 18, 2012 at 4:20 PM

“FREE WOMWN FROM THE BINDERS!!!!!!!”
~Axeldouche

Strike Hornet on October 18, 2012 at 4:21 PM

Years ago Jack Cafferty on News4NY interviewed the creator of Mad Magazine. He wondered at what age did the magazine start losing its readers. The creator said it depended on whether they went to college. It they went to college they began to move away from Mad by 24 or 25. If they only went to HS the age dropped to 19 to 21. When Cafferty asked why he was told that by those ages all the readers had been in the real world for a couple of years and discovered that the satire in Mad was actually real life and it was no longer funny. I think Hopeychangey is working the same way.

xkaydet65 on October 18, 2012 at 4:22 PM

One man once told the nation that when a politician no longer had any good ideas left, he’d make elections about fear and irrelevancies. Who was that again?

The Hoaxster in Chief. Clint Eastwood was right. He is the biggest hoax and pox upon the land. Mock him into oblivion, so as to never repeat.

Schadenfreude on October 18, 2012 at 4:23 PM

O/T But Hot off the Presses- Tear down this blue wall! Susquehanna: Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45%.

Raquel Pinkbullet on October 18, 2012 at 4:23 PM

https://twitter.com/SusquehannaPR

Romney up +4 in …. PA. 49-45

NoVAHockey on October 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM

dont taze me bro on October 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM

That reminds me of the VP debate, when my son attended his high school politics class the next day the general consensus was that Biden was a jacka$$.

Funnier still when you consider we live in socialist Canada.

mojowt on October 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM

They grow up so fast and sometimes you miss out on their formative years…bless their little hearts.

Norky on October 18, 2012 at 4:27 PM

i know this is o/t….but can crossroads Please run this ad on the tee vee?????

i know it is not nice to call our CinC a lying pos…but, hey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=znVqyfxfbRQ

r keller on October 18, 2012 at 4:11 PM

We are all Breitbart…get it out to your social network…totally spanks the Blightbringer…

hillsoftx on October 18, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Video: Clueless Obamabots Never Heard Of 9/11 Benghazi Attack…

This is our future?

***face palm***

JPeterman on October 18, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Barky was in NH today, this is from a local paper;

“Speaking before an energized crowd of about 6,000 at Manchester’s Veterans Park, the president, who took heavy criticism for a lackluster performance in the first debate, struck a tone more similar to Tuesday’s session, voters said.”

6,000 peeps, it is over.

I’d normaly link but this tablet gives me issues at times. Nashua Telegraph if you’d like to read it.

D-fusit on October 18, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Romney +4 in Pennsylvania — Susquehanna (details to come)

Latest PA statewide, conducted October 11-13, shows Romney leading by 4-points in PA, 49%-45% after his excellent debate performances.

We should be careful when it comes to PA. PA has long been a GOP tar baby. I hope Team Romney will be careful how much they invest in PA.

TarheelBen on October 18, 2012 at 4:30 PM

Polls: Romney grabs leads in Ohio and Colorado

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/260961-polls-romney-grabs-leads-in-ohio-and-colorado

Conservative4ev on October 18, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Uh oh. Gumby won’t like that. Just this morning he was saying that he had seen no evidence that Ohio could go to Romney. Evidence produced.

Bitter Clinger on October 18, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Video: Clueless Obamabots Never Heard Of 9/11 Benghazi Attack…

This is our future?

***face palm***

JPeterman on October 18, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Benghazi? Great actor, loved Run For Your Life.

slickwillie2001 on October 18, 2012 at 4:34 PM

Cross your fingers folks!!

WolvenOne on October 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM

I understand where you’re coming from, and… bullcrap.

Work your asses off, folks – accept no foregone conclusions, we fight this hard until the polls closed, and then we keep fighting to hold Mitt’s feet to the fire. I’m still convinced he’s going to return to his lib ways once in office, but I’m going to do what it takes to get Obama *out* – *and* grind Mitt daily to do the right things.

Midas on October 18, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Uh oh. Gumby won’t like that. Just this morning he was saying that he had seen no evidence that Ohio could go to Romney. Evidence produced.

Bitter Clinger on October 18, 2012 at 4:33 PM

He’ll just attack the pollsters. He’s not interested in evidence, he’s here to create panic and dissension, as evidenced by his repeated lying and refusal to own up to his mile-long list of predictions which didn’t come true.

He’ll be gone from this site by election night.

Doomberg on October 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM

Bitter Clingers have decided its payback time.

Bishop on October 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM

You just knew the dikes would give way with all the lies being exposed.

FlaMurph on October 18, 2012 at 4:41 PM

Bmore on October 18, 2012 at 4:42 PM

They’re not turning conseervative, though. They’re just turning into cynics

Just like the Ruth Bader Ginsburg look-a-like in Frank Luntz’ focus group after this week’s debate.

She said that before the debate, she was undecided – not between 0bama and Ronmey, but between Romney and not voting.

After the debate, she made up her mind to vote for Romney.

UltimateBob on October 18, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Last week, an Obama campaigner came to the door. She was lucky my wife answered and not me. From deep in the house, I heard the Obama spiel and sent my 3 year old out front. He’s a very friendly kid who says “Hi, how are you? My name is Henry!” The next words out of his mouth were “Obama is naughty”. Comedy gold. I sent him out because whenever he hears the word “Obama”, he says the magic phrase. The woman left shaking her head. Ha ha ha!

freedomfirst on October 18, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Elementary schoolchildren wouldn’t get away with such character assassination as has gone on in this campaign from Team Obama.

Team Obama could actually learn something from schoolchildren… maybe even how to play nice and respect other people, although that is a bit of a reach for today’s modern Leftist.

ajacksonian on October 18, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Speaking of millenials, from our good friends over at Revealing Politics, Obama event goers on Benghazi: What?!?

Fallon on October 18, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Wow. Just wow.

I expect this from stupid 20 year old college students, but the older guy who said it was the Republicans’ fault would have gotten a kick in the nuts from me.

UltimateBob on October 18, 2012 at 4:52 PM

If they’re not politically active, are politicians supposed to use Vulcan mind melds to find out what their views are?

BobMbx on October 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM

They don’t have real views yet.
Once they’ve worked and participated positively in society then they will begin to form views.

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
— Mark Twain

Back then people grew up a lot sooner.
Now it’s more like 35 years old before most “men” are men.

OTTO on October 18, 2012 at 4:55 PM

“Hi, how are you? My name is Henry!” The next words out of his mouth were “Obama is naughty”.

freedomfirst on October 18, 2012 at 4:46 PM

I friggin’ love this!

Henry’s already speaking truth to power.

Well done.

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 5:00 PM

You know, it’s really getting silly. Will somebody put the children to bed & let the adults get on with this election? I get that the youngins have a different frame of mind & experience level, but that’s no reason to talk to them like they 10 yrs. old! Have the Dems lost their minds as well as their ability to reason? Of course, the people coming out of college aren’t enthusiastic. They don’t have jobs & are having to move back in with the folks! That’s enough to depress any kid who thought they’ld have the world by the short & curly’s! It’s also a good time to teach them reality! Maybe you could talk to them as to why, they are in the situation they are in? Get It? These are opportunities, when their university brain washing, can be shown to be part of the problem and Open some eyes! Update on:How to take on the Obama Enemy media & Win: http://paratisiusa.blogspot.com/2012/09/an-open-letter-to-those-who-should-know.html?spref=tw

God Bless America!

paratisi on October 18, 2012 at 5:00 PM

while only 33 percent said that the president has failed.

Clear evidnce that higher education has failed to teach critical thinking.(Or how to read–one of the two)

Don L on October 18, 2012 at 5:02 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Now it’s more like 35 years old before most “men” are men.

OTTO on October 18, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Does that include metrosexuals?

Don L on October 18, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Living with your parents?

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Nope!

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Nope!

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Good on you!

You’re one of the few.

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 5:07 PM

Bitter Clingers have decided its payback time.

Bishop on October 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM

T axed
E nough
A lready

time

Schadenfreude on October 18, 2012 at 5:11 PM

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 5:07 PM

:) There are many more of us than you might suspect, but thanks

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:11 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

You’re a regressive. May they nail you, good.

Schadenfreude on October 18, 2012 at 5:12 PM

Loved the vampires don’t need teleprompters.

Will forward link to Obama leaning son-currently out of country til after election, did not remind him to get absentee ballot.

talkingpoints on October 18, 2012 at 5:12 PM

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:11 PM

You be wrong. May you get all you’re after, and way more. May you be riminded of this message every time you suffer.

Schadenfreude on October 18, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Why?

PaleoRider on October 18, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Did you suffer a massive head injury in the last 4 years or something?

UltimateBob on October 18, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Well, Obama still has Honey Boo Boo in his corner…

Big Bird?

Not so much.

coldwarrior on October 18, 2012 at 5:14 PM

:) There are many more of us than you might suspect, but thanks

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:11 PM

Don’ty dissapear after the election amigo. You probably belong here….you just haven’t realized it yet!

Tim_CA on October 18, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Does that include metrosexuals?

Don L on October 18, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Nope!

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Alpha! WOOT!

Seriously, metros are really men anyway.

OTTO on October 18, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Love that Ramirez cartoon with Big Bird.

Here’s what I want as a follow up: After Romney wins redo the cartoon to show Big Bird coming to a stop and flipping off the former POTUS as he walks away. Is that mean?

sdbatboy on October 18, 2012 at 5:18 PM

UltimateBob on October 18, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Must have participated in one of those Middle School mock elections back in ’08…now he is a junior in high school, apparently.

Why else would one gravitate from a Western Conservative [Palin] to a Fabian Progressive Liberal [Barry & Joe]candidate?

Can’t be an adult, with a few years of actual work experience behind him…

But, then again, over the past four years, damn few young people have been able to obtain any sort of real world work experience…thanks to O and Joe.

coldwarrior on October 18, 2012 at 5:18 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

AlphaBETA_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

Just can’t seem to find your way on a winning side. Sad for you.

A suggestion. I woudn’t go pissing any money off on lottery tickets if I were you…

Tenwheeler on October 18, 2012 at 5:51 PM

only 48 percent say that they definitely plan to vote next month.

Of course they say they will vote. But many that say that, won’t.

iurockhead on October 18, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Bill Whittle rocks.

That is all.

Midas on October 18, 2012 at 6:34 PM

On every issue, from the economy to immigration to health care to foreign affairs, young voters said they trust the president more than Romney.

So they “trust” Barry more, but will stay home and won’t vote for him. Sounds like they’re as full of bullshit as Barry is.

GarandFan on October 18, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Millennial here. Voted McCain-Palin in ’08, voting Obama-Biden in ’12.

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM

LOL, that’s the funniest joke I’ve heard all day; thanks!

Midas on October 18, 2012 at 6:36 PM

Just a note Ed about this group not becoming conservative for 2012. That never happened in the past. Groups become more conservative when the start to grow older and face life’s realities and realize gay marriage and abortion are not the important issues to fight for. The only time a candidate won the youngest cohort was in 1984. Not 1980. So the idea they didn’t believe in Reagan till he served a term is consistent with them dropping out of politics. I can almost guarantee after Nixon-Ford-Carter this group filled with Hope and Change for Carter didn’t show up for Reagan but DID after they saw politics work AGAIN to improve America.

Conan on October 18, 2012 at 6:39 PM

HopeyChangey Indeed.

FlaMurph on October 18, 2012 at 6:46 PM

There are many more of us than you might suspect, but thanks

Alpha_Male on October 18, 2012 at 5:11 PM

1) Bishop..
2) Claiming to be an Alpha_male does not make it so (how that degree in Native American homosexual habits and African male junk washing going?)
3) Voting for Obama only proves you are a sissy la-la in knock-off mom jeans.

SWalker on October 18, 2012 at 7:19 PM

Whittle’s video is likely the best I’ve seen him do. Outstanding!

JeffPBlues on October 18, 2012 at 7:28 PM

I guess the thrill is gone now.

Dollayo on October 18, 2012 at 8:41 PM